The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - It's important to adapt

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

Colin likes what he sees from the Panthers going into the NFL draft Why college coaches need to embrace NIL   Guest: Cam HeywardSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The sunshine poked its head out today. It's the hurt wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. A lot of choices out there. Interesting stuff. Cameron Hayward, Pittsburgh Steeler, All-Pro. Going to be joining us bottom of the hour. They haven't had to make many big moves because they were very good at the end of the year with a rookie quarterback.

So they're very interesting right now. I think we both think the Steelers and the Lions are surging teams. We feel that. I need to see a better offensive philosophy from the Steelers. Less running, more passing. Left tackle, I'm not sure about. They've got to get better on some on. They've spent a lot of money on defense.

Therefore, their defense is really good. So I was thinking about this. Two things. So years ago, I was reading a story about four or five-star general Schwarzkopf in America, and he was talking about a lot of times he likes to be aggressive and make a move because it creates clarity. If something doesn't work, you want to know immediately it doesn't work. Hemming and hawing and sitting around, even in military, you have to know what works and what doesn't. So failure is often part of a greater success.

And I've said in sports, I like my teams to be aggressive. And one of the reasons is that. If something doesn't work, let's find out. Let's not sit around and wait. And so when the Carolina Panthers traded up for the number one pick in a draft without a Trevor Lawrence or an Andrew Luck or maybe a Chase Young where you're like, oh, yeah, that guy's a can't miss guy. There was a lot of us who, and I was one of them that I said, you know, I really like what the Bears got, especially DJ Moore. but David Teper is a really smart guy and he owns the franchise. And what David Teper did is a little like Schwarzkopf and the article I read years and years

over 10 years ago about this. What he said was, I want to control the situation. And so David Teper hopes he has the right GM. And he hopes he has the right coach. But you never know. I mean, did any of you folks out there know that Tom Coughlin, when he was at Boston College, was going to beat Bill Belichick twice in the Super Bowl? I mean, you never really know.

Any of you sitting around going, the next great coach five years ago is a kid named Sean McVeigh's like 27. You didn't know that. We didn't know. Most of us thought Bill Belichick after Cleveland was a grumpy guy that bombed out in Cleveland couldn't get the offense right, right? Like, you don't know. A lot of these college guys come to the NFL, you don't know. I remember when Pete Carroll got hired at USC, I was on a plane talking to a buddy Brian in Portland, and I'm like, Pete Carroll.

They just had Paul Hackett, an NFL guy. How's Pete Carroll going to work out here out west? Absolute home run. Who knew? So, when you control the situation like Carolina, you can do all this pre-draft stuff, C.J. crowd yesterday. They had dinner with Bryce Young last night. They're going to watch Bryce today. Then I'm going to see Anthony Richardson and Will Levis. They control the situation. Houston number four pick, or Houston number two pick, indie number four pick, they can do all this

pre-draft work. On draft day, they're guessing. They don't know who's going to be available. They don't control anything. Houston's got the number two pick. They may love Bryce Young. Right now, Carolina may take Bryce Young. And half their scouting department is like, we don't love C.J. Stroud. Or maybe they don't love Bryce Young. So David Tepper also did this by creating clarity. He said, David Tepper is thinking to himself, okay. Instead of my guy settling, my GM and the coach settling,

I'm going to give them the power. I'm going to sign off on us moving up in the draft. But now I'll find out if my GM and my coach are competent, because they're going to pick their guy. So there'll be no excuses if they take C.J. Stroud over Bryce Young and Bryce Young hits a home run and C.J. Stroud is average. Then David Tepper can say, hey, I moved up. I'm giving you your pick.

And it will create clarity. Does my GM really know how to draft a quarterback? Because it'd be very easy if you stay down where you're at and you get the third of the fourth quarterback and the GM and the coach can say, well, what are we dealing with here? We wouldn't have drafted that guy. Now you control it. Frank Reich, the GM, it's their guy, their choice. They totally control it.

So Tepper is creating real clarity. Find out how good your GM. How good is he? It's his pick. No excuses. No settling. Not taking anybody's leftovers. It's all about you.

So I like the move by Carolina. I don't love giving up DJ more, but sometimes you've got to give stuff to get stuff. So there's an interesting bite by Mick Cronin is the UCLA basketball coach. And we're not sure we can get it cleared by the NCAA, the sound bite. But I think he had one of my favorite bites I've heard a college coach make in a long time. So the name image likeness, all I heard from fans and old timers and coaches, wham, wah, wah, it's terrible. And all I hear about the transfer portal, wham, wah, it's terrible.

And Mick Cronin at UCLA came out, he was asked about it. And he said, thank you for asking the question. And Cronin, whose Bruins tonight face Gonzaga, has done a really good job at UCLA. He was not viewed as the first choice. He was a Midwest guy, more about defense. UCLA's had some of the great college players. It's L.A. It's pretty. And he's been a great, great fit for the Bruins.

Tough, hard-nose, smart. Bruins play real defense. He's been great. So he was asked about the NIL. And his answer was, it's just different. And he goes, the last words of a dying CEO is, well, it's not the way. we've done things before. And last night I had one of those corporate dinners I have to go to about once every month.

You know, you got to sit with the big corporate people in my little world, right? And we talked about that all night, about audio and podcasting and digital and how the world is changing. And the companies that don't change get gobbled up. And it is so amazing to watch people fear new stuff. I like the NIL and I like the transfer portal. Now, I believe there should be regulations. I think we should all be able to drive a car once we're 18.

I think there should be speed limits. I think you should be able to smoke if you want, not on planes and not next to me in a cubicle. So I am for some level of regulations, even on Wall Street. You need some regulations. Democrats tend to want more than Republicans. That's fine. But I don't want housing bubbles. I don't want Wall Street bubbles.

If you don't have any regulations, those often happen very quickly. So you could look at a pattern of your life. I think about this all the time. I think about when I'm on my, and this is probably fatalistic or awful or macabre and dark, but I think about when I'm on my deathbed, when I'm on my death bed and my kids are there and they're holding my hand and I'm an old guy, right?

I'm, you know, however old I am, is in my life, do I want my legacy to be, you know, he took some big chances. He was open-minded. He was smart. He was progressive. He made some mistakes. But you know, man, he went for it. I think that's me. Made some mistakes, taking big swings, moved around the country, tried to do the right things. Sometimes I don't. I've never been afraid of new stuff. I'm totally comfortable with that. I would not be comfortable laying on my deathbed saying he was always afraid of the next thing. Speed limit. It can't go to 70. Oh, NIL terrified. The world is changing. Either change with it or die. Because I'm changing. My friends are changing. The smart CEOs are changing. You go ahead and be rigid and bury your feet in the sand. Go for it. But you're growing. There is no plateauing because others are growing. You're grown or you're dying. I'm just going to stay where I'm at. No, you're not. Because if somebody's growing,

staying with your at is sinking. And I love Mick Cronin's opinion. The dying words of every CEO are, well, that's the way we've always done it over there. This is all the NIL is, all the transfer portal is. It's just different. Embrace it. Add some regulations, obviously.

We don't want cars driving 120 miles an hour on the 405, obviously. We don't want people smoking on planes, obviously. But I love it. A college coach who comes the terms with is different. It's okay. Some coaches are going to really lean into the transfer portal. Others may not. Others may like the stability of getting three-star guys,

Villanova-Gonzaga, building up. But don't get in the way of other people. Doesn't mean Mick Cronin has to go all in on the transfer portal. doesn't mean that. But why can't somebody else? I mean, let's be honest. Some of these schools have rigorous academic standards in football and basketball collegiately. Some of them have less rigorous.

Some can take junior college guys. Some can't. Some are glamorous, beautiful campuses that can attract high school kids. Kansas State football under Bill Snyder lived with junior college players. What's wrong with that? A lot of big schools don't want Stanford's not. not going to take a junior college guy and Michigan may not take a junior college guy. Kansas State and Bill Snyder won 90% of their games. He was like, we live on those guys.

Nothing wrong with that. What's good for you isn't good for everybody. Mick Cronin. Love it. All right, Cameron Hayward's around the corner. March Madness, tonight, tomorrow night. Great game. Zags Bruins tonight. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeard radio app. Search Her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

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Let's go with the jets here, Calhurt. address this Odell Beckham stuff, you talked about earlier in the show. Apparently, there is, quote, very real interest in the Jets signing, Odell Beckham. Apparently, he has a relationship with Aaron Rogers. I guess they're friends, who knew? They've talked about playing together in New York. My read on this, the Jets are trying to get Corey Davis. They've had him for a couple years to restructure his deal.

And if he's saying, you know what, now you guys got to pay me and pay me or cut me. and now you see Odell Beckham could be coming to New York. Hey, Corey, last chance to restructure. Or we're going to dump you for O'Dell Beckham. I personally hope they keep Corey Davis there. He isn't going to be one to ruffle feathers.

He's not saying a lot of stuff. He's a big receiver. Big receiver. They got one with Big Al-Lazar. He's bigger. I got Garrett Wilson. Now, Mikul Hardman. Yeah, I don't think they're receiving,

course, the problem. I look at that and I think McColl Hardman was productive. He was hurt a lot in Kansas City. I feel like... I don't know. When I look at that... Denzel Mims,

just forget about that guy. But I don't... I don't think they need... I think they're wide receiving core. Yeah, I mean, Lazzard's a big receiver. Garrett Wilson's an ascending emerging receiver. McColl Hardman's heard a lot. If Corey Davis comes back, you can draft another receiver.

That's not an area of need. Now, tight end is more an area of need, but it's a draft of a lot of tight end. They need left tackle a tight end and Aaron Rogers, and that's a good football team. Speaking of left tackle, I had Daniel Jeremiah on my podcast, he sent me a text, a photo of Mackay Bechton slimed down. Bechton looks like he's lost 50 pounds. I don't know if the photo's online. I'm not going to post it.

But he is way down in weight. He's really focused because it's a contract year. Don't they have Dwayne Brown for one more year? They do, but I mean, he's like 37, 38. Well, I mean, he's Andrew Whitworth. You can play him for one more year. Listen, Beckton is in a contract year. So he's incentivized heavily to show up in shape.

Oh, that's good. I mean, it barely played in like two years. But you're right. There's O'Dell Beckham stuff. Do you need him? I know he wants to be in New York. L.A. You know? Like, it's like Jets. He's not going to the Houston, Texas.

That's just not who you want. So Corey Davis been in the league a while, right? So Garrett Wilson, we love. And who's the other one? Al-Lazard, they just picked up. So Alan Lazzard and Corey Davis, you got some veteran guys, now veterans, guys that have been around the league. You've got an

ascending young player. You don't need drama there. Like, what the Jets don't need to screw this up is drama. Aaron's going to provide... More than it. Yeah, and I'm not, this is not anti- Aaron, what I'm saying is the last three years. Aaron's going to provide some drama. The rest of the team's not really, I mean, to be honest with you,

Sala at a podium is going to give you some good sound bites. I mean, he's very animated, good-looking guy. He's going to give you some good quotes. And Aaron Rogers is going to give you good quotes. We don't need a third guy. Like, go get a young kid in the fourth round, fifth round. This receiving course now, not a problem. Clean up.

Now, the O line for the record, has got some interesting pieces. Three of their starters got hurt last year. So it's not as bad as you think it is. A lot of it was injuries. So if, let's say Beckton came back and it could be a nine-game start, he and Brown go back and forth, and they're competent. The O-line should be okay.

This is going to sound crazy. They have Breeze Hall, obviously, coming off the injury. He was tremendous last year. Do they consider Bejohn Robinson at 13, the Texas running back? Because there's not any depth behind Breeze Hall. I don't know what his status is coming off the injury. At 13, they can get. one of the best tackles. I would agree.

But I know Jets fans are like, let's surround them with offensive talent. It's been one of the worst offenses in the league over the last decade. Yeah, I would go get an offensive lineman. Even if the running back's a home run by year four, you're considering not extending him. If he's a good offensive tackle, you're going to keep

him for three contracts. Long-term Jets do a lot of flashy stuff. Go get an offensive lineman. Build around him for 10 years. I totally agree. Lamar Jackson. Next up, may be ready to move on from the Ravens. And we're seeing now odds that say opposite of that. According to Foxbet, Baltimore still has the best odds to have Lamar in 2023 at plus 120. Colter's second,

followed by the commanders, Falcons, Patriots, and Titans. I don't know how much you can get down on this. I would, you know, wait to see if you get some inside info one way or the other. And you make anything of these odds. Staying in Baltimore, I'm surprised that's the favorite, given that I don't think he wants to play there on the 32 million. And if he gets no other offers. Well, here's what I know. Lamar Jackson would make the Ravens, the Colts, the commanders, the Falcons, and the Patriots all absolutely better. At least two or three wins. And the Titans, no, he'd make the Titans better. The Patriots, Mac Jones, the way they run things. I mean, here's all I know. There's an argument to be made. He makes all of these teams

significantly better. And in the case of the Falcons and the Colts, he changes the franchise. guys. I know, I think a lot of it is the mystery and the unorthodox nature of him. You know, I think also this happens. Think about this. So Brady goes to Tampa and wins a Super Bowl. So the Rams look at that and go, we're going to go get Stafford. And then the Broncos go look at that and go, okay, Super Bowl's Super Bowl. We're going to go get Russell and pay a fortune. And it doesn't work. So what happens? The NFL is a copycat league. So now everybody's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, look what happened to Denver. Whereas I would look at it and go, yeah, but look what happened to Tampa and the Rams.

They got Super Bowls. But this league has a history of doing this. Is back-to-back quarterbacks, old guys go to a team Super Bowl, Denver does it, it fails. And is that also is the Kyler Murray situation and the Aaron situation where you see wildly talented guys that create drama. Arizona is now a tire fire. Green Bay is at Witsend with Aaron. So a lot of times, this happens all the time.

You see this in finances all the time. All of a sudden somebody buys this company and then that tech company and then somebody buys it it's a disaster and the market cools. So my question is, has the Kyler drama and the Aaron drama and the Russell Wilson mess has that affected the market

because Atlanta is literally a different franchise in valuation as a franchise by $200 million, $500 million the minute Lamar goes there. I would only push back a little on like the Lamar drama. Aaron Rogers is creating a lot of this on his own with their actions and words.

Kyler Murray deleting all the social media stuff pounding the table, get me this contract and then having them remove the clause. That's a lot of Kyler and Aaron created. Lamar is like a different kind of drama. He's just not saying anything. We just, we don't know. Like, is that technically drama? I do think hiring your mom as an agent and then moving off her and using a friend who's not an agent as an agent that's not registered by the NFLPA, he's coming across as strange. Strange or just unorthodox. That's, it's done. It's real. Well, it's not smart business,

but I think it's unorthodox. I'm willing to have an unorthodox. I'm willing to have an unorthodox. slot receiver, an unorthodox right tackle. Oh, now, I mean, I don't need all my players to be wildly functional. I can have a little personality. But personality at quarterback and drama at quarterback, because everything's tied to it, is scary. And I think a lot of people, everybody knows Lamar's good. I was looking at a stat board the other day on accuracy of quarterbacks, and he was

eight in the league. This idea he can't pass his nonsense. But now you've got an injury, a mystery, a non-eighthaping. agent's an agent, and it makes you kind of go, this is unorthodox. Unorthodox isn't a winning word for a franchise quarterback. Joe Burrow, you get a lot of dependability. I know what I get with Mahalms every Sunday and Burrough and Herbert and Allen. I know what I get.

People like that. Drew Brees, Tom Brady, you knew what you got every Sunday. I think there's just a lot of questions. I said about a month ago, you should, Lamar should be like the riddler. He should have question marks all over his jersey. I don't know about his personality. I don't know about his health. Will he be available?

Who's his agent? What's he want? I just don't know. I don't know anything. You know what I know. When he's healthy and playing, you're in first place or second. Yes.

And he's putting up massive numbers. That's what I do know. I just feel like he's almost being undervalued in the market. I just view it as like, this is insane. Something else is going on. Something else is happening that I don't think we know where the media is talking about yet with the Lamar Jackson's story, right? It just doesn't add up. If all these teens can get better tomorrow adding him, why are they not doing it?

And in a quarterback college draft where there's no superstar. And in the end, there's our NFC teams where there's no good quarterbacks in the NFC. Like, something's wrong. Anyways, final story, Sweet 16 kicks off tonight. We got the big matchup with UCLA Gonzaga, the night game, a rematch of that Final Four classic. NCAA is lame. They won't let us show the Jalen Suggs half-court bank job, which is incredible. So lame.

It's a week, man. NCAA, lame. Let the people enjoy the highlight. It's one of the great moments, seriously, in Final Four. history. Drew Timmy was in that game. He had a good game. Didn't play as well. The final game against Baylor. But you're leaning which way on this one? Well, I thought UCLA could win the tournament. And then right before the tournament, they lost their best defensive player. And now they lost this guy, potentially. So if you told me they had a full roster, I would take UCLA to beat Gonzaga.

But now you're telling me that one of UCLA's top players isn't playing. So I'd probably lean Gonzaga. Their big guy, which would be a mark of Timmy. And they also lost Singleton, another guard who's replacing Jalen Clark, who's out with the injury, who was the Pact 12 defensive player of the year, not just like a good UCLA play. The best defensive player in the Pacti. I just like that Mick Cronin wasn't per se. It's very funny. So Mick Cronin's been a home run for the Bruins, wasn't the first pick.

No. Carol was a total home run for the Trojans. Wasn't the first pick for everybody out there, if you feel you're being overlooked, there's a lot of people that were not the first choice that have been, Like in Los Angeles, look at Los Angeles. I mean, didn't Frank Vogel win a title? He did. Was he the first choice?

Probably not. I think when somebody comes into an operation and they're not perceived as a first choice, makes you work a little harder, a little jet fuel. I want to prove everybody wrong. Ron is a little coarse and can be abrasive. I think he's what, you know what? UCLA's in Bel Air. It's all she, she, and bougie.

I mean, it's right next to Beverly Hills. You know what they need? A tough guy is a coach. Well, you say that, but I know some people around the program, and let's just say the five-star recruits don't love it when they come in, and Mick Cronin's grinding them to dust, playing defense, yelling at him. How's that five-star thing working at Kentucky? I like the style.

I think there's a middle ground you can find, but Cronin has missed out on a couple superstars, and I'll tell you this, the LeBron James kid is not going to be going there playing for Mick Cronin if he treats the elite recruits the way that he has been. I'm not sure. Is Brony? And I think I'm sure he'll be.

a fine player, but you bring in Brony, that's a lot of publicity and a lot of expectations. That may not be a good fit for anybody. That could be a good fit for Duke, but it, or Kentucky, it may not be a good fit for UCLA. Andy Enfield, USC. Yeah, I mean, USC in a market, whether the second basketball program, Brony would be great for them. Huge. But UCLA already gets good players, good, and has a great history. Brony might not be perfect for them.

Just to be clear, I like Mick Cronin. I love UCLA. Sounds very critical. I don't play pickup basketball over there. It's beautiful. Awesome campus. UCLA's a little soft. The baby blues.

I like a tough guy. Baby blue. That was one of my number one colors when I was a young guy going out, you know, on the scene. Baby blue? Baby blue. I look so good in baby blue. You're something else. I hear the groads for the producers.

You've got to love that. Are you done? Yeah, you're done. Yeah, we're done. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

Cameron Hayward, the star defensive tackle for the Steelers, is going to get some Hall of Fame votes, 12 years in the NFL, six Pro Bowl is going to be joining us. Yeah, I don't know what to make it, Lamar. I tend to be a fan of aggressive, and I just know if the Atlanta Falcons signed him today or Washington signed him today in the NFC, he's a top two to three quarterback in the NFC

and completely changes your odds. Go to Vegas. What would happen to Atlanta if Lamar Jackson's on the team? The odds would dramatically change. The over under on Atlanta this year is, what, four and a half? It would be nine with Lamar Jackson. He would double your wins, wouldn't he? In that division?

And again, there's no star in this draft, and there are two in next draft. But you don't know if you're going to have an opportunity to get them. I mean, anybody next year, think about, let me ask you this. Who's going to be bad this year potentially? So I think Atlanta could be really bad. Atlanta could be really bad. Tampa, nothing against Baker, could be really bad. I mean, those are bad teams. Houston ain't going to be great, but they could be, let's say they're in the five-win-kins. So bad is five wins. Five wins or less. Who's going to be a five-win-or-less team next

year? Colts potentially, Atlanta potentially, Tampa potentially. That might be it. So if the Colts draft a quarterback this year, they're not taking one. Houston's taking a quarterback. They're not taking one. So Atlanta could be saying to themselves, listen, if Bryce Young goes to Houston, they're out of the quarterback derby. Right. And then they look at the Colts will take one. They'll be out of the quarterback derby.

And Carolina's taken one. They'll be out. So Atlanta could just be saying to themselves, start looking around the NFL. Atlanta could say, if Desmond Ritter, you start moving off pieces of them. at the trading deadline. Because remember, three of the, three of the,

now Chicago, if Justin Fields doesn't work, maybe in the quarterback derby, but my guess is they're going to win enough seven,

eight games. They're not going to be up top. So if Atlanta's not going to Lamar, because they're looking and saying, holistically,

we're going to be in this quarterback derby next year, and there's two stars. And a lot of the teams that could potentially be bad. Just ask yourself,

who is a five-win team or less next? year. Atlanta's obviously in the running. And they're looking around going, well, Carolina could be, but they're drafting a quarterback. And Houston could be, but they're drafting a quarterback. If the Jets get Aaron Rogers, if they don't, they would be in it, but they're going to likely get Aaron Rogers. So I think Washington's in that five or six win category. So you kind of, but the NFC is so weak.

So Atlanta, you know, you start looking around. So my guess is Atlanta, it makes too much sense to get him. My guess is their feeling is we're going to see if Desmond Ritter can play. If he can't, we're going to go get Caleb Williams or Drake May. All right. Washington commanders, you just touched on them. Eight in eight last year they started Carson Wentz, Taylor Heineke, and then Sam Howell at the end of the season, and won eight games. The defensive pieces are in place. Their defensive line is great.

The skill position players are potentially very good. I think the question is the ownership status. A, does the owner have enough money to put, apparently you've got to put enough money in the account to pay him the fully guaranteed contract? There's some speculation. The Washington owner. not do that. But Washington, who wins that division next year if Washington gets Lamar Jackson? Is it a Washington-Philadelphia toss-up?

I mean, I know you like Jalen Hertz. Lamar's been better for longer than Jalen Hertz has. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Two NBA insiders podcasting twice a week to plug you right into the NBA great buy. All happening in only one place. This League Uncut. The new NBA podcast with me, Chris Haines.

And me, Mark Stein. Join us as we team up to expound on everything we're covering, hearing, and chasing. Listen to This League Uncut with Chris Haines and Mark Stein. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. While it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose,

and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do a little count? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we picky here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all right. But just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sunday on Fox. Nope. Not this Sunday. Not this Sunday.

Cameron Hayward's going to get into this Hall of Fame thing in Canton, Ohio. Twelve years, six-time Pro Bowler already. Defensive tackle for the Steelers. Seven playoff appearances. He doesn't know it yet, but we're all starting to think about that Canton, Ohio for Cameron Hayward, part of the great Steeler history defensively. So we're talking about Lamar Jackson. I want a player's perspective.

So my thing is the kid wins 75% of his games. What I think is hurting him, Cameron, his mom was an agent, and then now he's got a non-registered agent, and it's unorthodox. An unorthodox is fine if you're a corner or a tight end. If you're a quarterback, I want orthodox. I want predictable. But what is your takeaway as a player about people not having a bidding war for this guy that's electric? I think it's kind of crazy.

You know, you look at the situation and, you know, you watch, you watch a Laramie Tunsel. And he's a tackle. I get it. But you look at Lamar Jackson. He's won games. He's come through in the clutch. He is the heart and soul of that team. He's the MVP for a reason.

And to think that, you know, more teams aren't bidding for his services, it's kind of surprising. Here's, when you look at Lamar and his running ability, and he has been banged up. Josh Allen runs, but he's so damn big, like Big Ben, that Big Ben got whacked for years. Cam did for years. I think a little bit what hurts him is, is that, and I think Big Ben probably lost four years of his career in Cam six,

and they were giant athletes, bigger than defensive players. Do you see how a GM could say, we like him, but he's missed 40% of their last 22. games. Like, how do you view that? It's hard for me to say that. I think when you look at it, Lamar's been very slippery and, you know, he doesn't take a lot of the big hits you would take as a quarterback. But, you know, those guys, I felt like they always got their dude. They always got paid. You know, I think the hits do take a toll on a lot of players, but you look at

Lamar's career, it's been a lot of freak hits, freak accidents, but you know, you can't go against a good talent. You can't tell me that there's 32 other teams that have MVP quarterbacks playing. So there's got to be a team out there that is interested that just isn't going to wait to the draft. If they went to the draft and they miss out on a quarterback, I see that team really stepping up for Lamar. So the last nine starts, for Kenny Pickett, he went seven, and two. And one of the things I liked about him, he played in the same stadium, started for a lot of years. My criticism was, I don't see a lot of like juice, but he's clearly competent with that defense to win games. Take me to the stuff I don't see, Cameron, take me to practice, take me to

the road trip. What leads you to believe, because I can watch the games, what leads you to believe he's the guy going forward? Well, you know, I think it's a combination of things. When you look at the way he prepares and he gets after it in the in the film room and on the field. You know, it's, it's really just night and day where he was during training camp. And you just see a hunger with him. It's not like he's just wrestling on his laurels and accepting anything. He understands he can even be better. And, you know, the worker's mentality really sets him apart.

Because you can be an all-time great talent, but if you don't back it up with your preparation, you know, you're really going to and set yourself back. You really saw it in those last couple weeks. When we really needed those wins, he came through. You look at that Vegas game. We needed a drive for him to go, you know, 80 yards. Yep. You know, the Baltimore game.

He had to go another 80 yards. And then even in the, you know, the season finale of our season, he plays the Browns. And, you know, he's making passes to my little brother, but he's having fun doing it. And he's really growing in that approach. son of the former NFL player Craig Hayward we're talking to Cameron Hayward Ohio State Buckeye great player there 12 years in the league six pro bowlers like a lot of Buckeyes he is great college player who's delivered in the pros so um Mike Tomlin is one of the only people I've been doing this a long time Mike Tomlin's on a short list of two or

three people that I've never had on my show that I would love to have on my show I'm fascinated by him. There's a guy's guy quality to him. I know he swears all the time at practice. I know. I can just see it. Cameron, I can see it from a mile away. If all the coaches you've ever had, you had, Jim Tressel, I just love Tomlin. What makes Tomlin, go to your high school, your college, your coordinators, what makes Tomlin different? Well, Colin, I'll say this. You know, you're not the only one who has an hour on his show. You know, I haven't had him either or my podcast. So we're all on a bidding work for his services. But when you talk about Mike T, I just think he is a guy that challenges his players, is honest, keeps everybody accountable.

You know, there are days you go in after a game and you're like, oh, if I'm on the board, you know, everybody's going to know it. And that's from the top to the bottom. Everybody knows there's a level of accountability. The standard is the standard. And he sets the standard. And he holds everybody up to that. Whether it's past players or players we have, we understand the history because of this thing. You're the only player in the NFL with 20 plus sacks and 150 tackles over the last couple of years. The Steelers, one of my criticisms have been they spent a lot of money on defense. They got to get the O line right and they got to figure it out. It is an offensive pivoting league. That's why Kenny Pickett needs to succeed. You can't win anymore

running at 64% of the time. You just can't. The NFL's changed all the damn rules. Now, you're looking at me like, you think you guys think you should run it more? I think you got to play a different brand of football. Matchups make, you know, the fight. I know we are different than a lot of other teams that throw the ball a million times down the field, but what do we do differently?

We run the ball and we had a lot of success doing it. What does that do to the equation? it lets your defense rest. The best defense is on the sideline. So we can have an offense that sustains drives, that, you know, gets a high-flying offense out of the rhythm. I think that's a better way that translates better in the playoffs because you have to be able to run the ball.

If you can't run the ball consistently all the time, you're going to be in for a long bet. You have played T.J. Watt, Minka Fitzpatrick, Big Ben. I think, yeah, I mean, you, just the names that you've played with. If I said to you, and we weren't doing this on TV, it was private,

I said, just be honest, the single most talented professional football player you've ever played with is, you know, the easy pick is Ben because he's so competitive of everything he does. But I have to say,

when I saw this man work, Antonio Brown, I was amazed at how he worked because he would work night and day. Every time, like there were so many times they had to pull the reins back on him because he had an addiction for trying to get better. And we were never surprised by what he put out on the field that what you saw in the practice, it was 10 times crazier. And so it was just like you couldn't believe the stuff he was doing.

like, you know, he would make it look so effortlessly. I'll take one drill in particular. It's a punt return. And, you know, most guys catch the ball and then they're throwing it back to the punt, the kicker. But what AB would always do, he would finish every single rep in the end zone. He would sprint constantly, you know, and, you know, being on the scout teams or being the guys who have to, you know, feel the punts and make sure that they're covered,

you get kind of annoyed. But AB did it every single time. And it set the president. Everybody knew when you go against AB, you better go 100% because, you know, he's going to show out every single time. And you might be better because of it. Cameron Hayward, does making the Hall of Fame matter to you? Would it matter? I think it matters when I get done with this.

You know, I think it's a culmination of the work you put in. It puts a stamp of what you're doing. For me, I've got more years left in this. And I'm trying to maximize these. so it's not a question. That doesn't mean I'm looking too far in the future. I'm enjoying the process and the present where I can have a chance to win a Super Bowl

because you win a Super Bowl that only elevates your career. How long of an off season? Do you give yourself three weeks off? How long before you get back to the iron, the weight room, wherever you do, whatever you do? Oh, man. You know, I think we took two weeks off. I sprinkling vacation, so I'll take some time off in between.

but I like, you know, getting right back to it, understanding mistakes, understand where I can improve that. Because, you know, there's only one team that wins the Super Bowl. And I want to be that team, but I understand there's a lot of work that goes into it. And I've got to push myself, you know, year in and year out. Great senior. Cameron Hayward, 12 years, six Pro Bowls, a lot of all pros, first class, classic Steeler and Buckeye. Great seeing you, great meeting you.

And thanks again, man. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Cameron Hayward, Steelers' defensive tackle. See that? You're out there flitting around with all these vacations. Cameron Hayward takes like four days off, no ice cream back on the grind. You could learn a little from him. All these vacations. My wife would like to push back against that. Is she a big vacation lady?

I think most women like vacations. Do they not? Most people do they not? Most humans, yeah. During football season, you and I know, every Sunday I'm like chained to the sofa. I'm the same thing. I'm not complaining, but I'm not really available to do much around the house. That's life, right? I mean, you and I are sitting there on Sunday watching football. It's tough.

It's hard. Someone's got to do it. I know. It's a grind. It's almost unfair. It really wears you out, like just sitting around eating food and watching football and taking notes. We're just a bunch of jerks is what we are right now. All right, Cameron Hayward.

Chris Brousard haven't had him on in a while. He's going to be joining us in the last hour. I'm excited for that. To gain visibility and control over your financials, commerce, HR inventory, and more. Go to netsuite.com slash herd right now financing offer of no payments or interest six months from NetSuite. How about Austin Reed?

You were going to go to that game last night, and you bailed on it because there was no KD and no LeBron. I also had to show for my kids around to sports practices because that's what you do as a father. Yeah. Yeah, I was in that little tunnel for a while. You loved that, didn't you? Not really.

No. Yeah. I told my daughter one time after a bad game. said, if you're not committed, I'm not. Get better. Shoot the ball better. She didn't like that. Shoot the rock.

She was a passer. All right. Hour number two is done on a Thursday. Again, big tournament stuff tonight. Can't wait. Hour three next, the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite offers. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast.

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