The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - Joel Klatt, Steelers Fire Matt Canada

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

More thoughts on the Steelers firing their OCSome QBs need to be in a certain system to succeedGuest: Joel KlattSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Joel Clat this hour, Greg CoSell, last hour. Also, Jason's got his football picks of the week. How'd you do last week, Jay Mack? How'd you do it? In the contest three and two, I lost the Chiefs devastating. I know you went four and one. It's weird. You're not making picks today.

A little... Bucat! Great to make Sunday picks on a Wednesday, huh? Come on. I told you I liked Arizona. Okay. Plus one. That's my pick.

Against Stafford. You're really rattled now, aren't you? Stafford, Puckold. Hey, Kyron Williams is back. The running back. Oh, he is? Yeah. Back off I.

When did that happen? Should be playing, yeah. Should be your head. It was eligible to play off IR, so they're expecting them back. Okay. It's a huge get-back. I didn't know that. This is why it's tough to put it in Picks on a Wednesday.

I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay, that changes it that I don't like Arizona. Ooh. So you're just on the Colts? Well, I mean, they had Royce Freeman who does a good job, but now they have all their running backs. That's a different ball game.

That's a different game. See, this is why Wednesday picks are ridiculous. Risky. Risky. I like living on the edge, baby. So right now, we can just say your picks don't count if you're comfortable. Stop. So I'm, I got to tell you something about LeBron James.

It's amazing. So the fact that he's doing this in his 21st year is it doesn't make any sense. Like, Brady's the only thing I can even compare it to. But if you go to great aging soccer stars, you know, Clayton Kershaw, we've seen age gracefully, he's not as effective. Like, that's the way you're supposed to age. If you, LeBron's playing so well this year. I don't know if he still leaves the NBA in minutes, which is absurd. I don't think he does anymore, but he did early.

if you named an all-N-B-A first team this year so far. So Jason Tatum for the Celtics and Yokic are absolute. I think Luca makes it in as a guard. And then you get down to arguing Yonah, Steph, and LeBron. But Steph's banged up, so I'd put LeBron in. LeBron would be first-team all-N-B-A. Now, they sometimes, in that all-N-B-A stuff, they get, you know, on position. And so Yokic is your center.

Tatum's a wing. I would make LeBron a wing. Yonis a wing. And then I'd have Luca bringing the ball up. I don't. Not that I'm into. Durant would be off the bench. Steph would be off the bench.

Now, it's inches, not feet. But what LeBron's doing, it doesn't make any sense. It just does not make any sense. It would be like Usain Bolt still being the fastest man in the world. You'd be like, okay, top 50 maybe, top 60, maybe. Fastest? I mean, LeBron's playing out of his mind. And the Lakers are deep.

I don't think they're a championship team. I think it's a weird NBA year where to this point, I'm almost sure only two teams can win it. Denver and Boston feel like they don't have a bench, so they're both vulnerable. They can't handle injuries, but they feel like they're just better than everybody else when they have to be.

And that's where we stand. Here was LeBron last night, by the way, hitting on his 39,000 point. via the spectrum sports net. I haven't had an opportunity to really, I guess, wrap my head around what that means. I mean, you know, so many great players. They came across his league since the beginning of time

and so many great scores and to be able to accomplish something as a first of anything. I think that's always pretty cool. And it's like that's a wild moment, that's for sure. I was just informed, LeBron is older than Utah's coach. I mean, that is,

That's nuts. All right. You know, Thanksgiving means a lot to a lot of people. I love Thanksgiving, and especially Joel Klatte coming on, because I'm thankful I can teach him about the game I love so much. Joel Klatte, the voice of college football. I zigged you thought I was zagging on that. Oh, that was good.

That was very good. Well done. So you have Ohio State, Michigan. The world will be watching you on Fox with Gus. I will say this. and I brought this up to an Ohio State, devoted Ohio State person. Okay.

I said, it's pretty clear that Marvin Harrison is the best college receiver in a long time. Okay. And it's pretty clear that C.J. Straud's really, really good. And Michigan hammered you twice, and now they have the better quarterback. They're at home, and their defense is as good as yours,

there's parts of me that look at this and think, like, what am I arguing about? Michigan is going to beat them convincingly, and yet that Harbaugh thing, I guess I look at some data, and I'm like, okay, they're both good defenses, so it's not going to be a shootout. I don't think so either.

I think both defenses are going to play well. But am I wrong to think, well, beaten badly with CJ Stroud? I mean, there's an elephant in the room here that you're leaving out, right? Okay. And having said that, though, I think that head coach in situations like this is, they play a big part. More so than in normal games, you know, when you get into these in these games, the head coach is so important for not only his decisions, but his demeanor,

keeping people relaxed and focused because the enormity of the situation can overwhelm players. Remember, these are still 19 to 22-year-olds, right? And Jim Harbaugh has been a coach for decades, and he's been successful wherever he's been. He's coached in a Super Bowl against his brother. Like this wasn't going to bother him. He's just won two times in a row. Like he wants to win, yes, but he is seasoned in a setting like that.

And Ryan Day is, by the way, as well. He's been here as a coordinator and now a coach, and he's won it and he's lost it, and he knows what to feel. Sharon Moore has been the acting coach three times. Bowling Green. and then in the last two weeks. And I would just argue, as good of a coach as Sharon Moore is, he will have to face something that he's never faced before

or nor can prepare for from a feeling standpoint, from a pressure standpoint. It's just going to be different. And I think that in this type of a game and the enormity of the situation, that has to be factored in. Ohio State is really good, and they're playing their best football too. No one wants to look at this, but Ohio State's offensive line has gotten so much better since the beginning of the season.

The fact that Travion Henderson is playing well, they're running back. He's playing as well as any back in the country. Like, period. He's that good. And McCord, everyone wants to take shots at McCord and talk about how McCord is not J.J. McCarthy. And, okay, he might not be J.J. McCarthy. He's still pretty damn good. This is a guy that led a drive, 12-play drive, I believe, in the fourth quarter against Notre Dame and won the game.

And that was with a banged-up Marvin Harrison. and a banged-up Trevion Henderson. So I think it's probably a more even game than what you're anticipating. The Vegas guys know what they're doing. So three and a half tells me it's going to be pretty low scoring, and it's going to be pretty close. So I would trust. So Vegas is right much more than I am.

I think that there's a giant key in this game. Oh, I want to hear it. Okay. Maybe a little inside football. But two weeks ago, Michigan had to run it 32 times in a row and finish the game with 32 runs. not throw a pass in the second half. And everyone, including me,

they were like, man, that was so impressive. Look at them, you know. They imposed their will on the opposition. Now, there's also a side of that. They had to do that because they could not protect the passer. Carson Barnhart, their right tackle, who's a good player, he was getting beat badly in the first two series by good speed rushers, Chop Robinson, Adisa Isaac for Penn State.

Chops good. They could not block those guys. And they abandoned that. They didn't throw a drop back pass after the second series. of the game. Not one, Colin, not one. Now you go into a game where you got to face JT. Tuimolo O'Oau, Jack Sawyer. Those are guys, by the way, both mid to late first round guys, aren't they? Probably, Tui Moloow, certainly. Maybe Sawyer is playing himself into that. Tuio's good, too. Tui Molo, at times has been a game record. He did it last year against

Penn State. No, he was the best defensive lineman in the country in high school. He's been a little inconsistent and very good at Ohio State. Okay, so now my question is how Michigan protects the passer. They didn't have Laderius Henderson, one of their tackles last week. They got Miles Hinton hurt. That hurts their depth. He came in to replace Henderson. Where are they at protecting the pastor? Because I don't believe against this Ohio State defense, as veteran as it is, as as sound as it is, as quality as they have been against the run. You can't do what you did the last couple of years and just run the football in the second half. You can't do what you did to Penn State and just run at 32 straight times. So that's going to be, I think,

the biggest factor in the game is will Michigan be able to throw the ball. Buckeyes are running the ball better now than a month ago. Way better. And that goes back to Trayvion Henderson. I think he's the best back in the country in the last month. Yeah. So, first of all, you talked about some elephant in the room. I mean, some stuff flies over my head, but I think you're insinuating the advanced scouting. Well, I think some people would say that that had a giant effect on the last two games.

Other people would say it didn't have an effect. I think it has... I just think it's an elephant in the room. Well, let's talk about it then. You can't walk into a room with elephants and not talk about them, right? It would be a discussion. If you and I walked into this studio and there was an elephant, we would be like there's an elephant. It's a good point.

Let's go. How did they get in here? Let's go. It would be disingenuous for me, though I've been pro-Michigan, to not admit that knowing things before they happen, you know, if I had a few answers on my college exam, I go from an 80 to an 88, it helps. Oh, okay. So you were a B student? Mostly. Okay. Could have been.

Just didn't want to. Had a good time in college. Some of us had a better time than they should have. So let's talk about that. So if we acknowledge that they did have some signals, I don't doubt that. Sure. In your career, don't you, I always have this feeling. Mac Brown talked to me about the Longhorn Network at the other place.

They had to change their signals more because of the Longhorn Network. Yeah. Don't programs like Ohio State in Michigan When you play a big TV game, which for the Buckeyes in Michigan is like every third week. Yeah. Aren't you changing signals all the time? Yeah, I think that you are.

And I think that the advantage that some people think was garnered by this scheme, I think, is overblown. Now, if all the sudden you can say like, hey, this is a trick play, or, hey, this is a seven-man protection, max protection, let's drop into coverage. Those are big advantages. And there are times where I know from the Ohio State side,

they felt like that was going on. Now, having said that, let me just, I'll tell you what, let's do a little experiment. All right, right. So part of the problem is that in college football, we don't allow quarterbacks, and this is generally speaking, this is not specific to Ohio State, okay?

So I want to put that preface out. We don't allow quarterbacks to handle the game on the field. We want them to look over and get the signal and the coach in the box and on the sideline is going to handle the game. Well, in the NFL level, it's different. You get the audio and then the quarterback handles it at the line of scrimmage. Let me give you an example of this. Okay, so let's just say that you're going to run. And this is, by the way, the kind of the way I cut my teeth as a player and then with the Lions and Saints under Sean.

Peyton, you would get a couple of plays or a package of plays in the huddle. Okay? And it would be all out of the same formation or movement. Okay? So you would be like, you're going to get into East Right, you know, blast to triple right U Disco. Then you're going to run a combination of whatever plays. So you're going to have 96 power. You're going to have 200 jet, excellent, Y spacing.

And maybe you're going to have like a check alert to an all-go special. Okay. And that's what you got. So you've got these three plays. Well, they're based on specific defensive looks. Well, guess what you can do as a quarterback. You don't need the signal from the sideline. You can get up and use a dummy color in your cadence.

You can do things like, hey, the first play is going to be an AFC West City. And the second play is going to be an NFC city, NFC East City. So you come up and you just give a shout and you're just like, hey, Seattle, Seattle. Or I said AFC. So like Denver, Denver! Okay, and everyone's not like, okay, we're running 96 power. And then you get in there and you can give even a dummy color. Yellow was a dummy color.

What you're saying is, you're like, yellow nine, yellow nine. And guess what? Nothing's going to happen. So, no, not. Defense moves. And he's like, got it. Denver, Denver, here we go, because we see the look. I see that you're in two safeties, not one safety.

Oh, they're moving to one safety. Colin, check, check, here we go. What do we got? New York, New York. Now we're in 200 jet, X Lant, why spacing? So I can handle that with no signal whatsoever. And we don't do that in college football. We're not teaching the quarterbacks how to handle.

But here's the other thing. offense on the field. I think, and this is why I don't think the signals is as big a deal as people say. One, you're changing it all the time. Two, you'd absolutely change it for the rivalry game. I mean, there's too many family. There's too many, there's too much intermingly. I don't want to minimize it, though, right? Like, if a rule is broken, a rules broken and you should be punished. No, no, that's different. I'm saying what did it affect the outcome? That you're true. I'm not denying that if they made a mistake, punish them. What I'm saying is what's the influence. So number one is

Everybody's changing signs regularly Especially when you face your rival You I mean you would think Here's the other thing All coaches when they're calling offensive plays There's only You know what I mean like even when you're Because all this on end game is fine

But you're doing this The kid comes over on the I mean when you go to the sidelines Jay J.J. McCr let's say Oh you're going to cover your You're talking to your kid You turn to the side and the bench and you say We're going to run this this

Yeah And that kid knows the first two plays as he hits the field. Yeah. Okay. And then sometimes you do signals. Other times you give it to a player to take it in. So the idea that every play is signaled, every play is stolen, I think is overstated.

Every game you're changing. I agree with that. Now, was there an advantage garnered? Probably. And that's hard to swallow for Ohio State fans. You know? But it's so fascinating just to, I think the, it's one of these things. I heard this analogy.

Are you, is anyone else familiar with Free Solo? That documentary about the rock climber? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen that. Alex Arnold. That's crazy. Wild, right? And he climbs, you know, like L-Cap with no rope. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There was a line in that documentary, and that line was, if you know a little bit about rock climbing, you think this is wild. And if you know a lot about rock climbing, you think it's absolutely insane. You know, like the more you know, the more you think that it's crazy. Well, something similar, although not totally similar, you could say about football.

The less you know about football, the more you think this impacted the actual outcome of the game. The more you know about football, the more you don't minimize it. You know there was an advantage gained here or there, but it's certainly not every play. You see these clips on social media of like, lose third down and they knew it was a pass. It's like, yeah, because the running back was in front of the quarterback. Like just by alignment, I knew that it was a pass, right? So I think that the less you know about football, the more you overblow this whole situation. Having said that, I don't want to minimize the fact that on the Ohio State side,

they feel like C.J. Stroud would have won a Heisman trophy. They feel like there were a couple of calls that were stolen probably in advance from that game and that those plays would have changed the outcome of the game. So both can be true. Did it change the outcome? Maybe. Maybe. is it as overblown as the Twitter sphere wants to make it?

No. No, it's not. You know my favorite line ever? Is it a movie? Dolly Parton and Steele Magnolias. If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, why don't you come sit next to me? I'm sorry, that was a weird segue. No, it was a good movie line.

Let me throw this one at you. There's another one. This show is always unpredictable. It really is. So I said, the advantage in a rise. rivalry game of getting stomped, you're pissed. You're not in a good, you can sell that to the players. They humiliated you, they stole our Heisman.

But this is different. The angrier team is Michigan, who thinks they got screwed by the conference, that their coach isn't on the field. So the team that hammered Ohio State feels like people are stealing stuff. Oh, see, I'm going to disagree with this premise here. You want another steal, Magnolia? And let me just shift the same premise, okay, that you're talking about. Okay, just bear with me for a moment.

It's not about being angry. Okay, it's not about being more motivated. That's not a thing. A thing is being more disciplined, more focused on your preparation. And I think what happened to Ohio State over the last couple of years has uniquely focused them on this matchup and this game and what they need to do to win it. Whereas what you're talking about about being pissed, Michigan's pissed, well, that doesn't do anything for you unless that is turned into and channeled into focus and preparation. So if they're mad at the conference,

that's a distraction. The quickest way to be defeated is to be distracted and emotional. Unless you can channel it into, well, this is what we need to do to have success. Because again, the less you know about football, the more you'll think about like, well, who's more motivated? Who's mad? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Who's more focused? Who's more prepared? And what are those teams used to focus themselves in that unique perspective? Very good.

All right, couple college football questions. First of all, Sark gets his first career 10-win season. Yeah. Is Texas have a shot to get in there? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no doubt. Now, you know, there's a chance that they get boxed out. What's the best case for them?

The best case for them. I think is... Because then they're going to get voted in over Bama. I believe that that's the case, yes. It would help if Florida State didn't look good against Florida or Louisville beats Florida State. That would help. It would help if Oregon were to win. But you can make an argument that that kind of takes a spot anyways.

So why not just Washington win in that regardless? Do you feel vindicated? You and I, I think, feel a little vindicated on Harbaugh, who people hammered for years. And I would say Sark. Oh, sure. I always felt Sark was a great coach. I thought we've watched, because he got a job so early at high-profile programs. He didn't got to go to Bowling Green like Urban Meyer.

And then, you know, Utah, before we talked about Utah. And all of a sudden, Florida is like Sark. USC, Washington. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, those are, I'm seeing all your mistakes, right? there, we pay attention to about 12 programs in the country. Right? And so Sark grows, and so I think we watched Sark grow. And people, I think, still have a total failure in perspective of what he took over at Washington.

They were 0 and 12. They were 0 and 12 before he got there. For a Power 5 conference. Everyone's like, hey, well, he didn't even win 10 games. He took over a winless program. Winless, right? You can't go winless as a Power 5. You play a directional school in your state.

And you can make a strong argument that Peterson had a bit more success with Sark-era guys. Certainly in the first year. Than he did when, you know, it was just his guys. Not that Peterson's a poor coach because he's obviously sensational. Where Sark messed up, admittedly so, as he was a train wreck personally at USC. Yeah, that's right. And he went and he fixed himself, and I will tell you, he's sober. I'm sober.

as you know, I've talked about this openly. And let me just tell you what type of guy he is. Okay? I see him on the field before the game. So we have our meetings and everything, and it's a production meeting before the game against Kansas State. Now, one of the more intimate times that I get with head coaches is before the game on the field because the pressure's off, but the preparation is done.

And so you can kind of get them and they're like, well, you know, here we go, type of a mindset. You know the first thing he said to me, this type of guy is. He looked at me, he put his arm around me, he's like, how you doing man and now you look at him and I'm like what do you mean he was like do you go to meetings do you you know and he he wanted to ask me about my sobriety and that's what we talked about for five minutes and I felt like he genuinely cared about what I was going to he was like I'm proud of you I was I was like listen I'm proud of you and his kids talk about those players talk about him being

honest and up front about what he's dealt with in his life and it's made them a better team and that's what he talked about this last week in terms of culture so does that make him a great coach No, but in some ways, his vulnerability with his players, his authenticity with what he's dealt with, has made him a better coach today than he was previously in his life. And most people can, if they have vulnerabilities or significant trauma are not public figures. So everybody knows about, you've been open about your Sark Texas football coach, pretty high-profile gig. So I think it's harder when you have personal life chaos or trauma. I mean, he's built a great program. Oh, first of all, it was the first time when they played Bama, I'm like,

they were just the better team. Oh, they had bigger, better players. I'm like, I haven't. Now, Georgia has been Bama's equal for years, a little faster, I feel like, at key spots. But like Texas is, you don't see people that are bigger than Bama? And I was like, oh, no, Texas got the better players. Texas owned the line of scrimmage on both sides.

of the ball. Remember late? They had to get a big drive. They just leaned on the run game. So their offense, by the way, this narrative that like, well, play them now, Bama's better. Not at the line of scrimmage. Sorry. That's the same. And Texas was better. They went on the field with seven minutes

to go and the lead didn't leave the field. Ran the ball nine straight times. Didn't throw a pass. Didn't check to a run. Didn't throw an RPO. Didn't trick anybody. Handed the ball off. Nine straight times. Finish the game on the field. Texas is just better than Alabama. I have to address this.

Recency bias, especially with iPhones, is powerful. People overreact to everything. Caleb Williams is going to go number one, and he's going to have a really good NFL career. And I think Lincoln Riley is going to be fine. He was overly loyal to a defensive coach that was a bit over his skis. I think USC will be fine. But I believe I am now in a minority.

I am hearing a lot of people all over the country saying, Lincoln is fools goal. Oh man, I heard this too. And in my take is 11 wins, 10 wins, and 155 and 10. People don't get how bad USC was when he took him over. They had like 30 players. Yeah.

And they stumbled this year because I think coaches, because they vacation and are very close to their assistance. NFL's not the case. Everybody's just a hired gun. College, these coaches travel together, recruit together, vacation together. He stayed with some coaches due to loyalty, and it burned him this. Yeah, it did.

Remember, Alex got on the plane. You know, I mean, he's... That's right. Coming from Oklahoma to USC. That's a great point. He got on the plane. Five guys did. And Lincoln was taken major heat.

You remember how toxic that was his exit from Oklahoma. So I think he remained loyal to him from that perspective. This take that Lincoln, Riley, is a terrible coach. It's patently absurd. It's like dumb. It's very, very dumb. I think you just nailed it. I don't know if you know you nailed it.

That is a great point. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that Alex got on the plane. And by the way, when Saban went to LSU, no one got on the plane. When Kiffin went to USC, you asked those guys, because you got to leave in the middle of the night. That's right. Who's getting on the plane? And you've got to be loyal for at least two years.

Alex Grinch moved his whole family. Yes, you know, I know their wives were close. And again, like, he was going to give him. a chance to make it right. And here's the thing. In the end, guess who knew more than anybody? Alex knew. You know, in that game right after he got fired,

I believe it was Washington, right? Was he let go right after Washington? I think it was Washington. Great game, by the way, but I think it was Washington. You could tell one of the plays late in the game. I had never seen this. I've covered Oklahoma and Alex Grinch and here at USC for a long time. I knew Alex when he was at

Washington State or when he was at Ohio State for a year. I'd never seen this reaction on the sideline out of him ever ever not one time he put his hands on his knees and his head just sunk down and you can tell like he knew he knew what lincoln was going to have to do he knew he knew that he had been fortunate that lincoln was i think just stand up in the regard that he kept him for that second year i know listen you can tell me like well who cares if he got on the plane that's a big deal it's a big deal got on the plane you got on the plane Now, didn't help him stop anybody, by the way.

But he got on the plane. Okay. So let three lines today. The first line was from the movie you saw, which was? The Alex Honnold, right? If you know a little about rock climbing, you think it's wild. And if you know a lot, you think it's really wild. Second great line, Dolly Parton.

If you don't have anything nice to say about people, why don't you sit next to me? A chair right here. And the third one is, he got on the plane. Uncut gems today. Yeah. And you know what? if I was you America, I would be thankful for that. Oh, Thanksgiving week.

That's so bad. That's so bad. I'm thankful for this show on a Thanksgiving week. I appreciate you always having me on. I really enjoy our conversations. Oh, you know. You're fan, buddy. You are a fan.

You know, Jamie didn't even chime in. No, J-Mack. Your shirt's louder than your mouth today. But, you know, J-Mack knows the boss. So much for being thankful. Goodness gracious. I mean, I can be thankful and call it out like it is. You don't like this?

No, I didn't say it didn't like it. I just said it was loud. I would wear it. A negative connotation. No, no, no, no, not for you. No, not for you. Fair enough. The shirt looks good on you.

Yeah, it does. I mean, we're literally a disco ball away from Studio 54. Here we go. All right. Fire away. I'm wearing a gray sweater. You're thinking this from a guy with like army colored jeans and a gray sweater. There's nothing dull about beige?

This is not beige. I said green and gray. Is that? Okay. Yeah. I guess my eyes. Oh, the shirt. The shirt is bright in your eyes. It's hard. It's hard. It wasn't a shot. I like the shirt. Thank you. You're as good as anybody I've ever worked with, buddy. Great seeing you.

I appreciate you. And you, J-Mack. I'm sorry. I feel like I hurt your feelings. It's not like you kicked my dog. You just took a shot at the shirt here. All right, I got a great parlay for you this weekend. Thanks to Draf King Sportsbook. New users, sign up, use the code, HeardD, download the app. A lot of fun. Now for my parlay pick of the week via Draft King's Sportsbook. Jake Browning is good enough to run the offense. I'll take the Bengals at home plus one over the Steelers. Offense for Pittsburgh can't move the chains.

I'll take the Colts, offensive coach off a by, Gardner Minchu, minus two and a half hosting the bucks. I think the Colts are a scrappy team and off a buy they'll win. And the Cardinals plus one at home to beat the Rams. Rams were severely outplayed by Seattle. but pulled it out late because Seattle went to a backup quarterback. I'll take the Bengals, Colts and Cards. If you want to take the Herd Parlay, check out Drafking's sportsbook.

New users, the code is Herd, H-E-R-D when you download the app. 21-plus in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y-4-67-369. See show notes for full details. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd.

weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, what's up, everybody? It's me, three-time Pro Bowl of LaVarer Arrington, and I couldn't be more excited to announce a podcast called Up on Game. What is Up on Game, you ask? Along with my fellow Pro Bowler, T.J. Hushman Zada, and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right. Plexico Burris. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game. We're going to be sharing our real-life experiences loaded with teachable moments. Listen to Up On Game with me, LaVar Arington, T.J. Hushmanzada, and Plexico Burris on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast from. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from Bathurst. basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed cracks. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Now you're finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the Steelers fired their offensive coordinator, Matt Canada. We don't root for anybody to be fired, but they'd been more than loyal.

this was the numbers don't lie. It was the worst offensive coordinator of Mike Tomlin's era. I also think, you know, Mike's going to do things his way. He may message stuff to Matt Canada limiting the exposure he was willing to let his offensive coordinator create. I don't know. But Mike Tomlin talked about this going forward. This is a result-oriented business.

And to be short, the improvements were not rapid enough or consistent enough. for us to proceed. You've got to score touchdowns in this business. You've got to win games in this business. And just the totality of it has us where we are today. I just want to see points. I want to engineer victory more fluidly. And points do that.

That's a way of putting it. I wonder, though, if Kenny Pickett is doomed, is that if we separated all 32 NFL teams, into offensive culture, defensive culture. Right? Like in certain franchises, like Miami right now, that's an offensive culture. I think Pittsburgh has the strongest defensive culture. That's what I think about with the Steelers.

Even with Bradshaw, Steel Curtin. Even with Big Ben, I thought defense. They spend their money on defense. Chuck Knoll, Bill Cower, Mike Tomlin, all defense. They wake up and think defense. They talk toughness over clever. And I don't think Kenny Pickett is good enough to overcome that culture. I don't think Jordan Love is great, but when I think Packers, I think offensive culture.

Holmgren, McCarthy, LaFleur, Farrv, Rogers, Jordan Nelson, Greg Jennings, Devonte Adams, many of their great players, offense. So I think Jordan Love and Pickett are not hoist a trophy guy. But I think Jordan Love has a greater opportunity to grow and flourish because of what's around him. I think there's about one quarterback, maybe two every decade, good enough to just overcome nonsense or overcome obstacles. I don't think Kenny Pickett is. And so, again, Pittsburgh's got a defensive coach, a defensive culture. It's where they spend their money.

And I just don't. I mean, listen, Jared Goff, defensive coach, bust, got offensive coach, Super Bowl. Tua, defensive coach, defensive culture, Flores, looked like a bust. Got Mike McDaniel, flourishing. Brock Purdy would not be this good with a defensive culture. So I'm not, 90% of the, of the quarterbacks drafted are in the Jordan Love Kenny Pickett space. It's where they land, the support they get, the coaching they get, the protection and weapons

they get. Occasionally you get an Andrew Luck, a Trevor Lawrence, C.J. Stroud maybe just, he would have succeeded anywhere. I think Caleb Williams has some of that. Lamar Jackson, I think, would still be productive wherever he is. I think he's got a good support system, but he's won a lot of games without great receivers until this year. There are these, you know, Josh Allen, I think, would have succeeded at some level because he's so gifted. But I don't think Kenny is, and I just wonder

with this defensive mindset, coach, culture, and then they should be proud of it. They got a lot of trophies. I don't know if he can overcome it. I just don't. I don't think Jordan loves hoisting a trophy either, but the coach and the culture and their young weapons and how they've, I mean, the Packers, what have we always complained about with the Packers? It's always, you know, they got a lot of good defensive

first-round players. Why aren't they better? We never complain about the offense. right not much all right take a break come back headline news there are three numbers to remember to get visibility and control for the right business decisions and those numbers are 36,000 25 and one net suite 36,000 is the number of businesses that have upgraded to net suite by oracle it's the number one cloud financial system what's that mean it means you can streamline everything your inventory your financial management, your accounting, your HR, one place. 25.

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H-E-R-D. Get that KPI checklist absolutely free. NetSuite.com slash herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the game. and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got? to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have age. on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So LeBron became the first player in NBA history to hit the third. 39,000 career point mark. Boom. Did it against the jazz with the three-pointer. LeBron, having an incredible 21st season in the league. Goat, that would be the greatest of all time, LeBron James, averaging nearly 26 a game career and field goals. Three point percentage and the Lakers advanced to the knockout rounds

in the in-season tournament. It's so funny, Laker fans like maybe 10 days ago, we're like, ooh, we got to trade AD, Austin Reeves stinks. They won all these changes. Now, LeBron takes over and they win like five and six, and they're back rolling again. I've got to tell you, this in-season tournament that people complain about, I think it's great. It's excellent. I love.

It does show you just changing, putting up a little money for the winner of it. I think Lakers are like 4 and 0 in the in-season tournament. And then changing the court and the perception of it, it does change how I feel about it. It's amazing what little interior paint can do to the house. Lipstick on a pig or whatever. Now here's a thing. A lot of people are going to say, oh, it's stupid, it's dumb. Those people already don't like the NBA.

So I don't care about your opinion. Yeah, no, like I like the NBA. And there are things the NBA has done, a new basketball dumb. The jerseys over the shoulder, dumb. They're seeing the NBA's done. Remember that when they, I thought that was so silly. But my takeaway is, oh, this is kind of fun. It makes me as a consumer think, oh, this game means a little more because it does.

And so I think it's great. They're going for the people who are kind of maybe more than casual. maybe your premium economy on a flight. You like the NBA, but you know what? There's a lot happening right now in November. So the NBA's not on my radar, but now the in-season tournament, I've got like one eye on the game.

That's a really good way to put it. It's the bottom line. If people want to bang on a Ronda Sanders or Joe Biden, I already know what camp you're in. Right. I'm not really interested in your moderate's opinion. I'm interested in. But like in the NBA, if you don't like the NBA,

I'm not interested in your opinion on this. It is a premium economy seat. Like if you like the league already, but there's so many choices, we're going to make these games feel more significant. And by the way, it's worked with me. Yeah. If I see the colored court, I know the players care more,

and on a Tuesday night, I get more intensity. I think it's a good idea. Next up, you know, we're contractually obligated to talk about the Jets. Zach Wilson, I mean, he's still in the league for now. He's going to be the third-string quarterback this week. I don't know if you saw that behind Tim Boyle and Trevor Simeon for Friday's game against the Dolphids, which I may not even watch out of protest.

Anyways, Zach talked a little bit about the benching or the scapegoating or whatever you want to call it. I don't think I was scapegoated. Absolutely not. I mean, you've got to look at the situation. We're not scoring touchdowns. Regardless of what I'm doing, my job as a quarterback is to help us score points, you know, and that's what I said to you guys. I can sit here and say I've had a bunch of growth and tremendous whatever this year. But if you're not scoring touchdowns, it doesn't matter.

It really doesn't. And I get that. For the record, I think this is very smart by Zach, and his agent, his agents told him, you go to the mic, you own it, don't get defensive, you own it, because somebody will say, you know what, things didn't go his way, but the Jets are a circus, defensive culture, it's not all his fault. It's very, I would take another, I've said before, the team I think Zach Wilson works for is Arizona, back up Kyler Murray, because they both throw a pretty ball and they can both move. and I think you've got to get that kid back out west.

Get him out of New York's media. Arizona media is sleepy. Get him out west. And I think he could be a very good. I have no problem. He's already made his money. So I think Zach will be more comfortable out west. I know people just think I'm just anti-Zac.

I don't think he's effective. But I also think this situation, hack it, defense, AFCs better, has made it worse. I think he could be a very capable. Top five backup in the league. Josh Dobbs, I love. Great backup. Josh Dobbs, a terrific backup.

Who can win games with it? But you think Zach Wilson and Minnesota with Jordan Addison? Kevin O'Connell. Kevin O'Connell. By the way, best left tackle arguably in football. You think he'd be better than this? Of course he would. You put him in Shanahan, Mike McDaniel?

I'm not ready to put him there yet, but close. The Houston OC, slow it coming from San Fran. Like there's some offenses where he's going to be fine. Remember, Kyle's Janahan went and picked up Sam Donald. Everybody's like, oh, well, Sam Donald. Do you remember how bad he was with the Jets, seeing ghosts? Like, it was bad. It was abysmal.

Never forget this. Going to the right team can be a backup. On average, going forward in our life, 50 quarterbacks or more will take snaps in every NFL season. Close to 50 to 55. You're going to tell me Zach Wilson's not one of the most talented 55 quarterbacks on earth. Now, build around guy, start. guy, AFC East guy, no. But you can't, I mean, just go watch

Tua with an offensive coach. Tua couldn't, I mean, they were literally, there were Deshawn Watson rumors. There were Brady rumors. There was Ryan Fitzpatrick. How do we view with a star receiver, a second star receiver, offensive coach? How do we view Tua today?

As a pro bowler? By the way, Jake Browning is starting for the Bengals this week. You're telling me Zach Wilson does it have a little bit more to show them. I watched Jake Browning play 10 college games. Zach Wilson moves better, got a better arm. It's not even up for debate. Final story, Jared Gough and the lion had a massive comeback on Sunday against the Bears. Gough did throw three picks, said he's happy to play on Thanksgiving and a chance at a fresh start after the bad game.

It does help to be able to play so quickly now and be able to hopefully go into the weekend with obviously a win, but a good taste in your mouth for how you played as well. So yeah, I'd love to come out this week and play well on your W. And be able to put that one behind me. I looked at the Packers here, but a lot of injuries. Just taking a look at the injury. Detroit's going to win this game. Yeah, yeah.

And you could tease Detroit down to win by one as a good bet. I think the Lions are the size here. Yeah. Detroit's a good team. Good teams that play poorly and win, as Sean Payton said, that was his favorite thing. We played poorly in one. He goes, I can coach them so hard all week. Detroit's going to win that.

game. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Good stuff today. Greg Co-Sell, usually on Thursdays, NFL meat sandwich.

You play fantasy football, bet on football, want to get smarter on football. Greg Co-Sell, move him up today. Next hour, hour three, coming up. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled of conversations

with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.