The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-HOUR-2-Kyrie Irving, Rockets, Jazz-Nuggets

Episode Date: September 2, 2020

Every Celtics win is bad for Kyrie IrvingMike D'Antoni might be on the hot seatWhy the Jazz-Nuggets had less scoringGuest: Jeff Benedict Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd. Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in, however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlie, filling in for Colin Cowherd. Jeff Benedict's going to join us half past the hour. He is the author of the new book that chronicles the dynasty of the Patriots and essentially the ending of the dynasty of the Patriots. What, what was?

went so very wrong at the end. What led to Tom Brady saying, thanks, but no thanks, right? We'll get to that one upcoming. Last night in the NBA, some interesting goings-ons. The Denver Nuggets outlast to the Utah Jazz. Jamal Murray, Donovan Mitchell, both just seemed exhausted, right?

It's the reason we keep averages. There's no way that you could keep up that heat. that they were both running. So when they both shot poorly and really, really struggled, it's just, I mean, at some point, your superpowers do wear off because they're not real superpowers. It reminded me of, do you guys remember who did Saturday morning cartoons in the air kid? Right. Put your hand.

Even if you're driving, you can put one hand in the air. What was your go-to show Saturday morning? Look, I like the classic, the classics, the Tom and Jerry's, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Roadrunner I liked was the one with Wiley Coyote Super Genius. Meep, me, right? But my, my go-to show was, do you guys remember gummy bears? There was a jingle, there was a song, Gummy Bears, bouncing here and there and everywhere. It was kind of amazing.

They, right? Like, and that was, 80s was about the time that gummy bears at first kind of made its way to popularity. And yeah, it did make me want to go out and eat some gummy bears at like eight in the morning. on my mom's couch. But gummy bears drank gummy berry juice. And it was like, there was a video game we used to play called RC Cart. Or C.R.C. ProM, I think.

RC ProM, right? And then it had a nitrous. But when you could, you had to be careful about using up all the nitrous. That was your turbo boost. Gummy bears were much the same way. They would drink the gummy berry juice and they could bounce all over the place. but then it would wear off, and suddenly they were just sticky gummy bears. That's what Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray reminded me up.

It's like they were on gummyberry juice the first six games, and then game seven they had no juice left. And then there was just a great moment after the game when Scott Van Pelt is interviewing Jamal Murray. He's like, you know, you got to rest up, and then you got Thursday. He's like, wait, we play Thursday? Excuse me? Excuse me? Yeah.

That happened, but maybe more interesting was the game that preceded it, which was the Boston Celtics against the defending champion Toronto Raptors. Now, I pointed this out before, but I'll point it out again. Has any team received less credit, respect, adulation, anything, as a defending champion than the Toronto Raptors? Now, look, I'm very well aware that Quine Leonard no longer plays for the Raptors, and that's a big, big portion of why people don't, there's no sort of fandom or respect given the Toronto Raptors.

But the regular season record was pretty stellar, right? They finish as the number two seat, 53 and 19, like, that's not, that is not chopped liver. But no one I know thinks of the Raptors as defending champs where you have to take down to defending champs. If you're like, no, nobody considers them even. they don't win it last year of Golden State's healthy. And they don't have Kauai Leonard, so you don't feel like they're a threat to win it this year, although they surprised everybody throughout the regular season,

even the bubble season. But that's not really what I want to get into. What I'm more interested in is the Boston Celtics. You know, much like the Lakers won when the Thunder won two nights ago, because they got extra time off, and which either team that they play, they have a good matchup against,

but we'll be just exhausted. The opposite is true for Kyrie Irving. Now, I think it's utterly and completely ridiculous. No, not the flat earth thing. Not the, what I thought was obvious, but some have thought otherwise, which is the entire idea that going into the bubble would somehow, would somehow take away from the movement towards, you know, towards social change

in our country. Whether or not less people are watching, which less people are watching in the bubble than traditionally watch the playoffs, that's, that, that, regardless of that, whatever number of people are watching in the playoffs is exponentially higher than how many people would be paying attention if there were no playoffs. Somehow, Kyrie Irving, and to a lesser extent Kevin Durant. Nobody's mentioned D'Andre Jordan. Like D'Andre Jordan had COVID, but like that was when they were first starting to be in the bubble. The Brooklyn Nets, I thought, would have had a great opportunity to still be playing had they decided to play. But they didn't. And much like, much like any job, if you don't show up to your job, somebody will,

and that's an opportunity that is kicked away, given away. And what has happened in his stead? The Boston Celtics shrubbed two games done on the defending champion Toronto Raptors. And though Kemba Walker did not play, I'm not going to sit here and tell you you play great basketball last night. Not. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that Kemba Walker is better than Kyrie Irving. He's not. But that was a loss last night.

That was an absolute L for Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving is hitting the game winning shot, essentially the game winning shot in game seven of the NBA finals. He should be synonymous with winning as a champion, as a guy who you could have faith in down the stretch, and he may still be synonymous with it. But it's really hard to watch the Celtics, who went to the Eastern Conference Finals when he was hurt, right? Who had a playoff run the year before he got there and are now up two games none on the Toronto Rafters when he's not there. and then look at their failures last year in the playoffs and not, huh, what is the difference here?

No one's ever said Al Horford's a bad teammate, or hard to coach. And Al Horford was part of the team the year they won when he was hurt, and the year Isaiah Thomas led them after the death of his sister, and he was hurt, playing injured. Meanwhile, Kyrie Irving, the year he plays in the playoffs of the Celtics, they're a disaster. So I ask you again, like, what is the correlation?

Kyrie Irving lost last night, and he didn't play a game. This is one of the things that happens when you don't play is other people take those opportunities. And it's one of the key points, one of the key points that should be made for why Kyrie Irving, while super, super talented and individually might be a better player, but not a better team, and not a guy you necessarily want running your club if you want to win a championship. They go to the conference finals two consecutive years without him. They lose in the semis last year. And, you know, like, look, he actually led them in win shares.

But they lost the Milwaukee Bucks in five games. And oh, yeah, by the way, Kyrie Irving continued to try and guard Janus. in their Scadden report, I was told that under no uncertain circumstances did they want him guarding Janus? And then he would get switched and switched on to Janus and try and guard him and he couldn't guard him. And instead of trying to play by the game plan

and do what they asked to hide him so that his offensive talents would come out and they could hide his defense against a guy who he had no shot of guarding. Carrey would do the opposite. Kemba Walker is not the finisher in terms of finishing shots of Kyrie. I don't think he's the pastor of Kyrie. I know that Kyrie has a reputation, some earned of being a little selfish, but he's a great pastor.

I don't think he's the ball handler. Kemba's a little bit older. Kemba's up and down as a shooter. He's fine defensively. It's not like he's Michael Cooper shutting dudes down. He's not Marcus Smart. But you know what he is? He knows how to win.

hits essentially the game ceiling shot last night, but the team is just better, feels better, seems better, emotionally more in line with each other. It doesn't mean that Kyrie is a loser. I'm not saying that. Again, I'm in awe of his jaw-dropping talent, but there's something, whether it's the lack of regard or respect for coaching,

was the lack of ability to communicate appropriately with teammates in terms of how you want to play and how they should play and how they can all get plenty of their own shots. Some of it without any question is the growth, the maturity of Jason Tatum, who's becoming a star. No question. Jason Tatum is better this year than he was last year.

And the year before, when they went to the Eastern Conference Finals, some of it was they had a fairly easy trip of it and the east was down and some of it was those guys played a little bit above their level. But a lot of it was they just seemed to be free of the Kyrie thing, which is what it felt like last night. All right, we'll continue to react to Kirk Cousins' quote, which I believe is being taken not out of context, but we're only using half of the quote. We got Jeff Benedict, who's the author to the new book about the Patriots Dynasty. But coming up next, this could be, and if they lose, likely will be, the last game that Mike Dan Tony coaches for the Houston Rockets.

But as Houston actually asked themselves the most important question, I don't think they have. I'll give you the answer next in the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd love. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose. On my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free.

iHeartRadio app search learn the hard way and listen now. Doug Ghalybin for Colin, the hurt rolls on, Fox Sports Radio. Jeff Benedict's going to join us in, what? Seven minutes? Sure, seven minutes. Got Ryan Music with the news upcoming as well. Ooh. The Big Ten story continues to evolve and it's super interesting.

We'll get to that top of the hour and then Joel Klaught will join us next hour. So we got college football, got NFL football for you. big game tonight in the NBA, actually two of them. The bucks are down one game to none to the Miami Heat. I've seen this before. Mike Booneholzer's team suddenly not as good offensively in the playoffs as they were in the regular season. And then the nightcap is Houston versus Oklahoma City. Game seven, the winner gets the Lakers.

Chris Paul playing against his former team, heroically kind of saved his current team and forced to game seven. The Rockets are better. The Rockets should win this game. The Thunder weren't put together with the idea, hey, let's win. They were put together with the idea of, you know, we got Danila Golanari. He can score. Maybe he'll become trade bait.

We got Chris Paul. He's a tremendous point guard and leader. We'll put him in charge. Shea Gilgis Alexander will learn from an all-time great to eventually be the mantle holder, the leader of the team. Steve and Adam is the big guy, the tough guy. We'll just kind of figure it out as we go. And somehow by about mid-season, you're like, you know what?

We can't trade Chris Paul for anything reasonable. Maybe can't trade him at all. And we're not that bad. Let's just go for it. Fine. As for the Houston Rockets, they actually match up a little bit better than we thought because they're using Lou Dort. He was a rookie from Arizona State, originally from Montreal.

Looks like a football player. Kind of shoots like a football player sometimes too. and we have ourselves in a really interesting series. But one thing I think all of us can agree is if the Rockets lose tonight, Mike Dante, like we don't even need the pleasantries of the, well, we're going to review, everybody's on review, we'll figure it out. Like, Dan Tony will be fired if they lose. There's a chance that Darry's fired if they lose.

Even if they win, it's a very strong likelihood. they lose to the Lakers. And when you factor in what Tillman Fertita said last year when they lost to the Warriors, remember he wasn't just mad that they lost to the Warriors. He was mad that they lost to the Warriors at home. The Rockets have made

a, have this curious kind of run of losing their last playoff game at home. Additionally, in these last playoff games, James Hardin kind of no-shows at the end of series. And when they lost to the

Warriors last year, if you remember, the Warriors weren't at full strength. Kevin Durant didn't play. So it's one thing to lose to the Warriors. You're like, well, they got Kevin Durant, and they got Steph Curry, and they got Clay Thompson, and they got Draymond Green, and we had come so close before. But they commissioned a study on why they lost game seven the year before and blamed the refs, not the 27 missed three-pointers in a row. Then they get another shot at the Warriors, and though they may not have won the series

to lose at home and the Warriors don't have their best player, I'd be mad too. So Fratita said, like, I want to win and I want to win now. They clean house with the coaching staff, for the exception to the head coach. Darry may or may not keep his job, and I don't believe Dan Tony does. Eventually, if they lose.

But I feel like the rockets are in that place that a lot of colleges are in when they want to fire their coach. I'm not saying that Mike Dan Tony is the guy, his teams, and he's coached, I mean, it's kind of an amazing career, right? To coach in three of the four biggest markets in the NBA. Did you guys realize that? He's head coached the Lakers, the Knicks, the Rockets,

fourth biggest market in the... And, you know, as well as Phoenix, where he had his most... He had the most success he's ever had. And, of course, in Denver, previous to that, like, it's not for lack of opportunity. Where have I seen this before? That his team's lack of ability to close the series

to get big defensive stops, ultimately undoes an amazing regular season team. That's Mike Dan Tony Basketball 101. I'm not saying that you keep him. I'm just saying this. Has anybody asked the question, who's the guy who could fix it? There are calls to bring back Jeff Van Gundy.

But Jeff Van Gundy is a Pat Riley disciple. He's a defense guy. How do you think that goes over with James Harden? I love Jeff Van Gundy. There's many teams I've like, why don't you hire Jeff Van Gundy? just throw a bunch of money at him. He's a great basketball coach.

Great basketball coach. But I don't know how that, when your two best players are two guys with flaws defense, like Russell Westbrook, I think people think is a really good defensive player because he's so athletic, because he makes mean faces, and occasionally he'll get a steal.

But the truth is that he checks out a defense for about half of every season, and he's just okay in the postseason when he is engaged. and then offensively, ye. And what happens is we watch in such limited instances in terms of how hard he plays hard all the time. Like, no, he doesn't. He does not. Ask people in Oklahoma City, they'll nod their head.

Like, no, he takes lots of, he takes games off defensively. And now, of course, he four knee surgeries in. He's not the same guy. And he still has some of the same issues in terms of volume of shots. and inability to make shots. Then you got James Harden, who's great when he has the ball. Great. He's not good. He's great.

But he requires a very specific style in order to be successful. I don't know if there's a lot of coaches that are going to let him go through his legs 15 times before he goes and gets his shot. Maybe. But the bigger question is, okay, not Dan Tony. Who then? And don't give me the anybody. that's actually not that's not actually

the way it works because in order to win a championship so oftentimes in the NBA you have to have been there before you have to have won before like that's the catch-22 of coaching in the NBA. To win a championship as a coach you have to have won a championship

as a coach or to have the respect of a locker room you have to have won a championship to want a championship you have to have the respect of a locker room. Reminds me a fat bastard in Austin powers too. I eat because I'm unhappy and I'm unhappy because I eat. It's a vicious cycle. I agree. I'm not a guy who's sitting here proposing I have all the answers, but I think the lack of an obvious answer, he is the conundrum that the Houston Rockets are in. Do you keep Darry? He did

build this team into a consistent winner. He did pull off some magnificent moves, but he does have them locked up in a sort of cap hell that they've constantly tried to rework. And if you keep him, do you hire a coach that believes in his analytics first philosophy? Or do you scrap the whole thing and start over? But then you're not going to get rid of James Harden. You can't get rid of Russell Westbrook. What do you do? I think he might be screwed.

Right? Warriors seem to have a plan, took a year off. Lakers are still going to roll with LeBron. Clippers are loaded. They're not going anywhere for a while. Then there's you. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. This is the Herdline News.

What do you got, Ryan? Oh, Doug. We've got a lot. And we're going to start with some NFL. A little NFL, little college, all mixed into one here with this first story. John Harbaugh, head coach of the Ravens. Brother, Jim Harbaugh.

head coach of Michigan. Let's get that straight. Okay, so John of the Ravens said this at the end of his media session earlier today. I'll throw a little controversy out there. This is my position. I say free the big 10. Free the big 10. Let's go play some football. Let's get Michigan and Ohio State and all those great teams playing football. Michigan had zero positive test in August. They're doing a great job with their protocols and those guys want to play. For anybody who wants to opt out, they can. their family should have that choice, just like the SEC gave the players and the families that choice. Most of them decided to play as a family. I think the Big Ten players should have that choice. I'm on the record. You got it. Free the Big Ten! So essentially, you can boil that down to John Harbaugh going to bat for his brother Jim Harbaugh,

because Jim's been highly outspoken that Michigan should be able to play season this year. I agree. I mean, I've been somebody who's said that this, only makes my point more accurate that players have always been incredibly well cared for at universities well before this. The Big Ten has the resources to do it, to care for their players. I think they got very, very, very concerned over the reports that you can get myocarditis from COVID-19. And you don't want to, I mean, look, you don't want a kid getting sick or or God forbid, dropping dead or even getting lung issues that last his entire life

while wearing a Michigan uniform or Ohio State uniform. And the NCAA, if you remember, dictated that you cannot mandate kids sign waivers if they want to play. So you're like, well, we can't have you sign a waiver. How are we going to do this and protect our entire university or our football program from being sued? So there are some more things they need to, what was it, hoops they need to jump through? but I'm with him. I just think the problem is that the Big Ten has committed to this. Their presidents are not on board.

They're protecting the players from themselves some, whether they need to or not. And obviously, it's getting to be political now, which may cause the Big Ten to push back even further. We'll wrap it up with this, Doug. This is right in your wheelhouse. Not sure if you saw this. It just came out a couple of minutes ago. Villanova head coach Jay Wright sending out this statement. out of respect for our Villanova community and our 76ers organization,

I feel the need to address speculation about the 76ers head coaching position. 76ers have a great leader in Elson Brand, outstanding young talent, and an incredible opportunity for any coach to compete for a championship. Any coach but me. As a lifetime 76ers fan, I have confidence they will bring in the right coach to build on what Brett Brown has developed. I am not a candidate for the job. I am very happy and honored to be a coach of Villanova.

Jay Wright. There you go, shut it down. And I don't think this is a Sabin deal where he's like, you can quote me on this, I'm not going to be the head coach of Alabama, how many times I need to see it. I don't, I believe Jay Wright. I believe it. And I think it's because even though, you know,

the Brad Stevens is of this world, they don't want to go back to college. They don't want to worry about guys, you know, going to class and APR, the, that's the progress support. You know, you have to have a certain number of kids on track to graduate in order to have your full boat of scholarship. if they don't want to worry about those sorts of things. Jay Wright has that thing dialed in.

He's won two national championships. He doesn't have to take problem kids. He can recruit whoever he wants and do so without cheating. He's got it dialed in. But more than anything, he's got his culture. They have unbelievable culture at Villanova, and it's just so hard to establish when you're dealing with grown men in the NBA.

Can you do it? Yes, but it can be a painful process. I will point this out, though. To people who predict you can't do it, with two-star players that can't get along and can't fit together with the Philadelphia 76ers. Go back and look at what the Lakers were like before they brought in Phil Jackson. And Del Harris could not get Shaq and Kobe to work together and they would get swept out of the playoffs. You bring in Phil Jackson and they became a championship organization.

The right guy I do believe can fix the Philadelphia 76ers. Jay Wright's like, it might be me, but I don't want the job. Thanks, but no thanks. And that's Ryan Music with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. The book is called The Dynasty.

Jeff Benedict is the author. The New England Patriots, the most dominant franchise and professional team sports over the past 20 years of the subject of a brand new book by Jeff Benedict. Benedict secured exclusive access to the Patriots starting in 2018 and reported from within the organization for nearly two years. The book is a comprehensive account based upon 250 interviews and has more than 200 people. and is available now. I know that Colin has read it because he's calling me on a nightly basis telling me, you got to read this book.

You got to read this book. We talked about it yesterday. We're joined by Jeff Benedict, the author. Jeff, how are you? I'm doing well, thanks. What was it like the moment you were granted access? And I asked that because of the organizations that we as outsiders

think of as the Fort Knox of sports organizations the Patriots seem like the most like that, right? No leaks. Nothing gets out of that thing. It's changed a little bit, but to give you this type of access, what was that like? Well, I mean, I think to answer that question, I have to sort of say up front, I'm probably the ultimate outsider. You know, maybe like the most unlikely person to write a book like this just because I've, I had never covered this team.

I'd never been around them, never been to a press conference. in Foxborough, never watched the game from the press box. And I didn't know any of these individuals who are at the core of the dynasty. I never met, for example, Robert Kraft or been around Tom Brady or Bill Belichick or any of these other guys. So I was really an outsider. But I'd spent a lot of time thinking about this and thinking about what I wanted to do. And one of the things that appealed to me was that no one had really ever looked at the role

of the owner in the dynasty. And I was fascinated by that because I had consulted the Sports Illustrated 100 greatest sports books of all time. They made a list a few years back. And not one of those titles had anything to do with an owner. And I thought in this case, there's got to be an incredible story there. I don't know what it is, but there's got to be a great story about Kraft's part here. And so I wrote to him, you know, the old-fashioned way.

I wrote him a letter. And it was, it's the ultimate sort of cold call type of letter. He doesn't know me, but I, I introduced myself in writing. And I told him who I was, what my background was, and what I wanted to do. And which was, I really wanted to understand and write a book about how this, the greatest sports dynasty of the 21st century was built. I mean, that's basically how I put it. And that was the beginning of, you know, a relationship that, the next. next phase was I got a letter back from him and to my mailbox in Connecticut. And that said

something to me about him. Now, granted, I haven't talked to him yet. I haven't met him, but the fact that he took the time to write me back was interesting. And it said to me, there's something different about this man. And, you know, eventually that led to a meeting and spending time together and and me basically just talking about what I wanted to do and getting to know him and some of those who led the organization. I was trying to build a rapport. I was trying to understand and they were, you know, trying to understand who I was because they didn't know me either.

But it was a process in the case with everybody in the book of, you know, sort of building a comfort level and a relationship. I mean, to get to the point where you could have interviews. that were meaningful. I think that all of these guys knew because of the kinds of questions that I was asking that I was not interested in third and 10.

There's a lot of other football writers out there who can write that a lot better than I can. I was trying to answer questions about that were legal, that were political, that were financial. And so that's, it's going about it a totally different way.

Yeah, it is, look, it is fascinating. To those of us, and, you know, I spent I lived 12 years of my life in Connecticut. And I know that, like, I think people forget that the Patriots were moving to Connecticut. Like, that stadium that was going to be the Patriots Stadium. Like, it was done until it wasn't done. And it's kind of interesting how he took to owning the team where he, you know, he bought up land around the stadium and then ultimately gets the new stadium.

But I, and so I think that part of it's fascinating. I think the part that is most intriguing to us sports fans is the relationship between Belichick and Brady. And having not had the, whether it's bias or background of knowledge for how it used to be, when you first got there in 2018, what was the state of their relationship? Well, when I got there in 2018, I didn't know anything about that and have any sort of insight into any of that. I was coming in very fresh and you could even say somewhat naive. But, you know, I constructed a timeline of the Patriot dynasty. It took me a year to build it.

And I was doing all these data points. And I was looking at the evolution of the relationship between Belichick and Brady is a fascinating tale. And I think to understand where it ended up, you have to really focus on where it began. And it begins, really, with this incredible. sort of set of decisions that Belichick makes that in hindsight, you know, look just as risky today as they were then, which is, you know, first of all, drafting a quarterback when you absolutely don't need one because you've got three of them and one of them is a superstar. And then after the first season, when Brady doesn't play, it's reaching the conclusion in

your mind that if he were starting the best quarterback on the roster right now heading into the 01 season, he would start Brady. that is an unbelievable place for a coach to be when the owner just gave the other quarterback $103 million to stay for 10 more years. And he even told the owner that he felt that way. And so Kraft knows that Belichick feels that way going into the 01 season. And I think when Drew gets hurt, it gives Belichick the ability to put the guy in the game who he thought he should have been starting anyway.

And so when Drew comes back and the conventional wisdom is, you know, when you're the star quarterback, you don't lose your job. Dangering you. Yeah. And so he should have played. And I think every other coach in the NFL in 01 would have put him back in. And Belichick doesn't. And here's where it gets interesting. The owner certainly could have forced his hand here.

And he's even talking with Bledsoe who wants him to intervene. And crap goes and talks to Belichick about it. And the interesting thing is he doesn't go down there and like tell him what to do. He goes down there and listens to him. And then he decides at that point that he's not going to step in. And he tells Bledso that. And he tells Bledso that he, as much as he wants to help, he doesn't think he should force the issue. And so Belichick is allowed to stick with Brady.

And we all know that he wins the Super Bowl that year. But the next morning when they're in a car together after winning the Super Bowl against the Rams, it's right there where, you know, Belichick says you had a pretty good season. Well, first of all, that's a dramatic understatement. And second of all, but coming from him, that's a huge compliment. Sure. And then to say, then comes the sort of the warning about what's coming next, the fame and the, all the stuff that comes with being the youngest quarterback to be the Super Bowl MVP and all

that stuff. it's that's how their relationship started it's uh in other words i think that they both understood early on that they had to trust each other and their careers rested on each other so they really did if if brady had not done well in oh one that that could have been disastrous for belichick's future so when did the where did the trust break down and and like look we read the excerpt yesterday where, you know, Kraft was concerned about that dynamic between Belichick and Brady. Belichick, of course, had gotten rid of Alex Guerrero. Giselle would, you know, voiced her disapproval with how Tom Brady was being treated.

Like, it seemed to all work for so long where Brady would take a little bit less and extend the contract so they could get everything worked in. You know, he would get undressed verbally by the coaching staff because he was just like any anybody else of the Patriots. It worked for so long. What changed? I don't really think anything changed. I just think what you said, explained it. It worked for so long. In other words, it never should have worked that long. Montana and Walsh couldn't make it work that long. Noel and Bradshaw, you know, Terry Bradshaw has been pretty open about how much he hated, used the word hate, hated Chuck Knoll and couldn't wait to get away from him.

And so I think that, again, I'm looking at this, like, and I'm trying to get readers to put on a different set of glasses, and let's look at this differently. Instead of focusing, and I understand the attraction to the friction, I get that. But what's far more interesting to me isn't that there was friction and fracture, because that's in every great partnership that, you know, when you put, like, two geniuses in a room, there's going to be that, but they're also going to create something that could, like, change the world. And I think that these two guys did that, and they did it for a lot longer than should have happened. And if they'd run the course that the Niners and the Steelers and maybe even the Packers had run, it would have come apart a lot sooner, maybe in 2010 or 2011 or certainly 2012. But this is different because they keep going. And so by the time you get to 20 years, you know, 2019, it's like it's just there's not a defining moment where you

say, up, there it is. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I just think that instead, it's more that they finally reached the end of the road. And that is why I made the comparison between Lenin and McCartney and Belichick and Brady, because I really think it fits here. I think it works. It's not an overstatement to say the two greatest rock stars that changed the music industry. We're 50 years removed from, you know, when the Beatles were the Beatles, and we still look at them as the best. I really think 50 years from now, sports historians and fans will look back at this moment and say, the Belichick Brady partnership, it's still the best one. And it's because they did more than anybody else. Could it also be that Giselle Bungeon is the Yoko Ono to this, to this duo?

No, I don't think so. I think I would, I would, I understand why you're saying that. I would actually describe her quite differently. I think Yoko is probably rightfully looked at by a lot of people as one of the sources that broke up the Beatles. I think in Giselle's case, she was probably very helpful in keeping things together because of the way that she is with Tom. I think if you see Tom versus Time in that film, which I thought was very honest and showed some great insights into that.

I mean, look, she's like the ultimate partner, and I think that New England was lucky that she was on the scene for this ride. It's called the dynasty. The author, Jeff Benedict, kind of to spend some time with this, pick it up, wherever

you kind of, Amazon, wherever you get your books, it is an absolute, fabulous read. Jeff, thanks so much for joining us. Incredible insight, and look forward to speak with you again in the near future. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. The pleasure is absolutely all mine. Coming up next,

the Jazz and the Nuggets had a battle to the end, and the Nuggets end up somehow surviving. Why they statistically came way crashing back to Earth last night. I'll explain next in the Hurt. One more HARD? The herd

streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHard Radio app. Search HARD to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but in It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because. of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now.

Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app, Search learn the hard way and listen now. Doug Gottliebind for Colin.

This is the herd. Men boost healthy testosterone, burn fat. Try MDrive boost and burn. Feel more energized and lean. MDrive boost and burn. Check it out at mdriveformen.com. MDrive for Men.com. So last night the Jazz and Nuggets, that was an ugly game, right?

80 to 78 was like a halftime score for most bubble games. And it's interesting. You know, I was reading this stat about James Hardin. And in the last five years in the playoffs, in the fourth quarter and overtime combined, he shoots 23% from three-point range. And I think of when I watched last night, I think of the things that we don't talk about as sports radio host. I understand the job.

And I understand it's got to be topics that are interesting to you, relatable to you, on subjects. that are interesting to you. I think we do a terrible job of expressing and explaining one big, there's a couple of big aspects to sports that we just don't do a good job. We started to talk about culture. That's really kind of what I was getting at with why Kyrie doesn't, didn't work with Boston.

Like, he just doesn't fit their culture and their guys. Like, that just didn't work. But culture is one of them. And part of it is, like, there's a no, there's a lack of kind of, a tangibility to it. I can't see it. You can't quantify it. You just kind of got to know it. It's like that definition of pornography. You know it when you see it, right? So culture is one. Confidence is another.

It's really hard to express to a fan or to somebody outside of sports. They're like, look, sometimes guys just, they can lose their confidence. And they perform at a level way below their normal level just because they're going through a crisis in confidence. That happens. Why? How do I know this? They're human beings.

I know it's hard to imagine. They appear to be bigger than life objects, although smaller than you would seem in your television set. But the truth is, they are human beings. And human beings at times suffer through a crisis in confidence. Can get it back. Sometimes can lose it for good. And it can ruin or bolster anybody's career, especially in sports.

But the third aspect to like, Like the three Cs that we don't, we don't cover enough is conditioning. Some guys naturally, naturally can run for days. I think I would guess that of the people, of all of you that are listening, it's probably like if you break down, there's five of you. One of you, one of you, without any question of my mind, can not run for, and then, hey, there's a 10K coming up. I'm like, oh, for charity, I'll go do that.

Have a marathon? I can go do that. You just naturally have, just naturally can stay in shape. You're kind of disgusting to the rest of us. Then there's another one of your five where you, no doesn't matter what you do,

you can't ever seem to catch your breath. And the rest are kind of in the middle. Now, look, last night, jazz and nuggets, there's a reason we keep averages. You can't shoot at, Donovan Mitchell and Jamal Murray were shooting a combined, like real shooting percent, true treating percentage was like in the 70 percent. That doesn't happen forever.

And it definitely doesn't happen for an entire series. And then when you factor in fatigue, it didn't happen last night. But that's why you're still above average, just in that one game context, it was below average. But the other part, and it relates to James Hardin is dudes just run out of gas. They're just tired. maybe not taking care of themselves. People are crushing Kirk Cousins. Why they might want to rethink that next in the herd.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for, banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having

trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. In 1979, that was a big moment for me. Eighty-four was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.