The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - Looking at the season of Rodgers and Carr

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Comparing the season of Derek Carr and Aaron Rodgers. Who had to overcome more? Joy looks at Los Angeles Lakers forward LeBron James' chapter in Hollywood and how it will be remembered when the Scoring King walks off the court for good   Guest: Ric BucherSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back to the herd of Troy Taylor filling in for Colin Cowherd on vacation enjoying some time off after the Super Bowl had a great time out in Phoenix

hope you watched all of the shows was a great great weekend for Fox Sports alongside Alex Curry in for Jason McIntyre today and tomorrow and they will be back next week thank you to

Carmen Vitale for just joining us that was great I really loved loved her article on Fox Sportscom It's a great read. It can be done. It really can. It can be done, Aaron Rogers.

No excuses. It can be done. We'll talk to Rick Bueger, Fox Sports NBA analyst at the bottom of the hour. So Aaron Rogers, Derek Carr, Mara Jackson, Justin Fields, Jimmy Garapolo. There could be a lot of movement at the quarterback position. There will be some movement at the quarterback position. Yes. And the Raiders decided to move on from D.

Derek Carr this offseason after a rough year, but not as bad as you think. Not as bad as you think. And the Raiders GM talked about having to replace Derek Carr. Again, a decision that they made very aggressively recently. Here he is talking about moving on from Derek Carr. We're in charge of filling the most important position on the team. There's some pressure that comes along with that. And however we fill it, it doesn't mean we're going to have an immediate answer. You know, year. You know what I mean? And so, but at the end of the day, we have to have an answer. Right. You know, in some form or fashion, you know, and so, yeah, there's pressure that comes along with it. And again, that's also part of the excitement, too. Lie to me, Dave. Just lie to me.

I mean, if I'm a Raiders fan, how are you not in a full panic? Not, you don't have an answer this year. What are we moving on from Derek Carr then for? What's, what do you mean? This is, this. is always why I find this conversation about moving on from someone to be adorable. To who? To who? To who'st? Are you moving on from Derek Carr? Derek Carr might not have had a great year.

Keep in mind, they had one of the worst defenses in the league, had to deal with a bunch of injuries. And it's the Raiders. Am I going to trust the Raiders over a poor performance from Derek Carr, who, by the way, is going to get signed somewhere and make a bunch of money? Raiders are wild boy You're in a division with Patrick Mahomes Justin Herbert Russell Wilson who's just been paired with Sean Payton

You had the 28th total defense this past year You might need to score some points to stay in the game So saying that you don't have an immediate solution You might not have an immediate solution this year What are you moving on from Derek Carr then for? What was the plan? Was it like Tom Brady was plan A and now there's no plan? it sounded a lot to me like there's there's not really a plan it's like we'll we'll figure it out do the

the raiders have the runway to do that just lie to me just say that say that you have a great plan and that you're going to you're going to be great right away why are you moving on from derrick harthin so what if he's 40 million dollars that's what a starting quarterback costs you don't have a solution in this division in the year of our lord 2023 what are we talking about I mean, is Rogers the plan? That's not going to be the easiest solution. You're going to have to give up pieces to get him. I just, I think it's fascinating that there's no plan. This is always my question when people talk about, we need to move on, we need to trade him, we need to cut him. For who? Who's replacing him? You don't have an immediate solution this year, so we should just

we should just marker in, just permanent marker in the Raiders for last in the division this year. This is what we have to look forward to. I think it's fascinating. I also think that teams like this in your division, this is what benefits dynasties. I mean, Tom Brady benefited from the AFC East being a tragedy for years. Took advantage of it. Benefited, took advantage of it, however you want to look at it. It doesn't take away from the greatness that he is in the dynasty.

but it does help to have teams that just can't get it together that you have to play. I mean, this is all lining up. It's all lining up perfectly. I think it's amazing. I think it's a really fascinating mentality that we don't have to fix it this year. Then why are you moving on from him? Why? It just really doesn't make any sense.

We'll talk to Rick Bueger at the bottom of the hour, and I'm going to ask him about the Lakers. The Lakers have 23 games left in the season. And at the All-Star break, LeBron did not mince words about how important these games are to him. It's 23 of the most important games in my career for a regular season. And the type of mindset that I have and I hope the guys will have coming back off the break. So they're not in the playoffs right now. And that lends to the conversation of what is success for the Lakers this season?

Is it making the playoffs? is it winning a playoff series? They have a lot to do in these final 23 games. And I love that LeBron said this because I love that LeBron is making it clear that

even though he just won the scoring title and set the record and we'll continue to set the record, he's taking the rest of this season very seriously. And I appreciate that about LeBron. LeBron is a winner. He's not here to just get statistics and have fun.

While I'm sure he does have fun playing basketball, he has more fun when he's winning. But we've always fast forwarded to the end of LeBron's career. We've always talked about his legacy and his greatness and how will he be remembered and how will he be compared amongst the greats? How will he be compared to Michael Jordan when everything is done? Will he be the goat?

Will he be the goat? Will LeBron have so many statistics and so many records that he'll pass him for the goat? But I think we're also overlooking how these final years will look for LeBron James and how we compare those to the final years of Michael Jordan. Because everyone always says, oh, we don't talk about the Wizards years. We do talk about the Wizards years. All we say is, we don't talk about the Wizards years.

Because they weren't great. They weren't anything exciting or riveting or insane. They didn't make big ripples. And it didn't affect Jordan's legacy in the macro. But it was the Wizards. and no disrespect to the Wizards, but this is the Lakers. The Lakers expect to win championships every year. They expect to be competing for championships every year.

There are legends that have walked these halls that have won multiple lots of championships. There's lots of banners hanging over there. So if this ends badly, if this continues to be a trend of the Lakers missing the playoffs are being extremely disappointing, I don't know how we will look back on these Lakers years, because they did win a championship. And I think if it was an organization like Cleveland, and she sort of rode off into the sunset with one championship

and then not much success after that, we might contextualize it differently. But because it's the Lakers, I do wonder how we'll look at it. Also, he's playing alongside Anthony Davis. Now, to me, while Anthony Davis is an incredible player, his lack of availability is a very serious issue to me. That is a reflection on who he is as a player. Availability is a skill. It's part of the reason why LeBron has had the legacy and the longevity and the numbers that he's had is because he's always available because he takes great care of his body.

The roster, some would say it's LeBron's fault. I wouldn't entirely agree with that. I do think he's had some influence over it, and maybe all the decisions haven't been great. But the entire roster is not LeBron's call, and nor is it his responsibility. So while I can put some nuance on what's happened with the Lakers and how things have gone since the championship, I'm putting nuance on it. We don't put a whole lot of nuance on legacy conversations. So he feels the pressure of it.

LeBron does because he's talking about it. I do wonder how we'll look at these years post the championship, and if we'll compare them to Jordan's years with the Wizards in the same way. Now, obviously, LeBron won a championship, so there's really no comparison to the success. But the height to the lows, if the lows continue, the further you move away from that success, different types of narratives start to be written. I think if you win a championship, you're golden, you're protected, but the Lakers expect to win a championship every single year. Lakers fans expect to be competing for a championship every single year.

Now, whether that's realistic or not, it really doesn't matter. There are just certain organizations that we hold in that space. And I think it's very important for the Lakers to make the playoffs this year. and I think it's important that they have some success in the playoffs this year. Keep in mind, the West is wide open. So if they can get in there and they're healthy, and you've got a healthy LeBron and you've got a healthy Anthony Davis, and you can move the ball around, you have some shooting now,

and you can get things rolling as you head into the postseason. Anything can happen. But I think for this particular chapter in the legacy of LeBron James, I do think it's more important than maybe we're giving it credit for, that they, at the very least, make the postseason. We'll talk to Rick Buecker about this in just a few minutes. We'll get to Alex Curry with the news. And I have a lot more to say about Derek Carr and him potentially,

potentially going to the Jets, why I think that's a really, really good fit for him. Aaron Rogers is a better fit for us, but Derek Carr is a better fit for the Jets. We'll discuss that coming up on the herd. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people

who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is a good. is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick up. you hear, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important, you know, year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week only Fox Bet Super 6 is raising the jackpot for the NBA contest to $50,000 and you have a chance to win it all for free. Download the Super 6 app and make your six NBA predictions before tip off Thursday for a chance to win. Don't miss out. There are guaranteed winners every week. Welcome back to the herd. Intelligence runs in the family. Innovation runs in the family. Extraordinary runs in the family. The 2023 Mercedes-B-B-U-Vs. Every member is waiting to impress. Learn more at mbUSA.com. That's mbUSA.com. Joy Taylor, in for Colin Cowherd today. Alex Curry and for Jason McIntyre will be in tomorrow as well. And then the guys will be back next week from their vacation. Everyone's taking a little time off after Super Bowl to refresh.

as we head into the latter part, I want to say half the latter part of the NBA season. You're recently refreshed. And yes, yes, had to get away for a little bit. So, Derek Carr, this has become one of my favorite stories of the years, is the Derek Carr where he will end up and how he will perform there. And the Jets reportedly told Derek Carr he could be a first ballot Hall of Famer if he came to New York.

that's a big step. It's a big jump. But apparently they're trying to pitch him on going there. Diana Rusini said they were pretty clear with him. They told him he's a great quarterback and they've got a legit surrounding cast of players. That is true. The Jets are what would appear to be a good destination for a high-level free agent quarterback, which is what I believe Derek Carr is. And I believe Derek Carr is a better fit for the New York Jets than Aaron Rogers. Now, this is going to be hotly discussed because Aaron Rogers obviously has a bigger legacy. He is a first ballot hall of famer. He is a four-time league MVP and a Super Bowl winner.

So obviously his resume completely overshadows what Derek Carr has accomplished in the league. But that was then. This is now. This is now. As we talked to Carmen Vitale earlier in the show, and she mentions how things went for Patrick Mahomes this year with a bunch of young and new. wide receivers and how things went for Aaron Rogers this year. Quite different, quite different. Even though we hold Aaron Rogers in quite a highlight, as we should, but should we also update

the resume. When we talk about how Derek Carr and Aaron Rogers seasons went, people are much more down on Derek Carr than they are on Aaron Rogers. But if we take a little closer look, there's a little, I spy with my little eye, a little closer, they're not that far off. They were not that far off this year. And I think most people would agree that Aaron Rogers was in a much better situation in Green Bay than Derek Carr was with the Raiders. You can say all you want about all the weapons that Derek Carr had, including the player that used to play with Aaron Rogers and Devonte Adams, who was spectacular. But the defense for Derek Carr was abysmal. They were 28th this year. And Derek Carr has overcome all sorts of chaos with the Raiders. The New York, you

New York media is nothing to play with. I don't know why everyone assumes that Aaron Rogers would just walk in there and have a jolly all time. If things don't go well, which is entirely on the board, how is he going to receive that? Aaron does not respond well to criticism. He doesn't. He's out here sharing parts of his life and talking to the media every single week, which we love. Please keep doing that. But when things go badly, the New York media has no incentive to give you a soft landing the way that. anyone would in Green Bay. Derek Carr, on the other hand, has been dealing with total chaos his entire time in the league. He's had six head coaches, six head coaches. They moved cities. He dealt with the John Gruden disaster. Antonio Brown, losing top talent to off the field issues. He's weathered storms over and over and over again. Let's not give the Raiders a pass for how completely dysfunctional they've been in the time that he's been there. Not to mention from 2014, to 2022, the Raiders have had the worst defense in the NFL. The worst. Derek Carr has overcome all of that. Now, someone would argue that he hasn't overcome, but to me, them being competitive

at all is overcoming all of that. He's going to have a massive chip on his shoulder. He will work with the young receivers, which guess what? They have in New York also. They have them there too. I just think that Derrick Har to New York makes so much more sense than Aaron Rogers. Now, all that being said, Aaron Rogers to New York is much better for us, which should be a huge red flag to the New York Jets. It's much better for us. We would love that.

Please do that. Please make that happen. Please raise the expectations. Please raise the spotlight because I'm in the chaos business. I'm here for anarchy. I think Derek Harder to the Jets is the best situation for the Jets. But for me, please, please, please make the deal with Aaron Rogers and get Aaron Rogers to New York.

I'm all for that. Again, this is me waving the red flag, warning you about how that's going to go, how I predict that will go, and I'm not alone in that. Let's get to Alex Curry with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

Let's keep talking quarterbacks, because that seems to be the theme during the off season. This is a little different, because Brock Purdy was scheduled for UCL surgery to repair his elbow yesterday, after suffering the injury in the NFC Championship game against Eagles, but it was reported that Pruddy's doctor recommended postponing the surgery until next month due to inflammation, which now raises questions about Purdy's recovery timeline.

Now, this is a very common injury we hear a lot in baseball, the UCL tear, and you hear a lot of pitchers getting it, and they get Tommy John surgery. Now, they've said this is not Tommy John surgery, but he is working with a baseball doctor, the Texas Rangers doctor. And just from experience, when you're talking recovery timeline, and you're talking about a player in any sport that is using their elbow as their main source of their job, which is throwing the ball if you're a quarterback, which is throwing the ball if you're a pitcher, just before you can even start the rehab process, we're looking at, what, six months here. Now you're pushing that back even more, and then you have to recover from that and start the rehab, which is not going to. to be easy when it's your elbow. What are we looking at?

Like end of the season, maybe November, December, something like that. The 49ers need to do something. They need, as we saw, and as you've beaten down, their quarterback issue is a big issue. Well, they have to hope that Tray Lance becomes what they thought he was going to be,

what they used all those picks to move up and get him and very openly move off of Jimmy Garoppolo to do. I mean, I don't want to support. speculate too much on how long it's going to take Brock Purdy to recover. But, I mean, we were thinking hopefully he'd be back at the beginning of this season when the injury first happened. And now his surgery has been pushed back because of inflammation. So this is not what you want to hear because you can't start to recover until you have the actual surgery.

So this is a bad situation. I mean, life comes at you fast. Like I said, we were concerned about how things were going to go with the Niners when Trailance was looking a little iffy. Then Trailance gets hurt. then Jimmy Garoppolo gets hurt. And then for a brief moment, you're like, oh, all the problems are solved. Who cares how many picks we use because we have Brock Purdy.

And now Brock Purdy is injured as well. It's really a fascinating phenomenon with the Niners, how many injuries they have. But I, it's, I mean, all the eggs are in the Traylands basket now, all of them. Mind you, Traylans is also coming off of an injury. Yeah. So whatever development he was going to have this year is gone. Whatever development Brock Purdy was going to have this offseason is gone. you really are you are lighting the sage and charging the crystals

or whatever you do to make sure that Trey Lance is going to come in and be what you need him to be because also this incredible roster that you have is not going to be the same age or together in perpetuity so you have to take advantage of the talent that you have there at the cost that they have at the health that they have all at the same time so it's it's really a lot happening for the Niners. You also need a backup plan because you don't know. Oh yeah, they don't have backups either. Yeah. You also need a backup plan because you don't know when Brock Purdy is going to be back. Also, everyone's coming off injury. Yeah, a lot of stuff. Well, let's stay on the injury topic with

quarterbacks because Tua had a lot of health issues this season after suffering at least two concussions this season. Many believe that the way Tua falls was being hit led to the way his head was hitting on the field. With that said, Tua is now committing to at least one day a week to Judo to help him protect himself on the way to the ground, saying that we've got a plan set up. I'll be doing judo on Fridays just so that I can kind of figure out my understanding my body and how to fall just to help myself. So basically, he's learning how to fall to avoid the whiplash his head is making when he's hitting the ground. You can practice all you want on how to properly fall, but when someone is taking you to the ground and throwing you on the ground,

there's not a ton of reaction time and control you have over that. And let's be honest, Tua's one concussion away, either from ending his season or if it's really bad, possibly ending his career. Yeah, it's very concerning how things went for Tua last year. I do like hearing this. I like that they're acknowledging that there are things, that can be done to prevent this from happening further.

Now, because of the rules and the protection of quarterbacks, you don't see as many of those ferocious, you know, blindside hits, even if they do get to the quarterback defenders are more encouraged to, you know, sort of, I'm sacking you, but I'm not really, you know, trying to take you out of the game type of hits. So you can control your body. And if you are hit a certain way, you don't just, you know, just fall on the ground the way that he was.

So I do like that they're doing something proactive to try and protect him. I have lots of thoughts on how the things are going to go for the dolphins next year. We have a whole show tomorrow. Maybe we're going to do it then. But it is encouraging at least that they're paying attention to it. It's very concerning how things went for two of this year, though, particularly because of the type of injury that he had. Which is hard.

Yeah. There's nothing you can really do about it. Head injury. Dangerous. Well, they're trying to do something about it. But yeah, we'll see if it actually works. Well, a possible future quarterback. Heisman winner in USC quarterback, Caleb Williams,

is projected to be the first overall pick in the 2024 NFL draft. Although Williams still has at least one more year at USC. He's already got his eye on an NFL franchise that he'd like to play for. And here's what he had to say. I'd like to be around younger coaches. I'd probably go to the Dolphins. I would like to be able to play with Tyre Kiel, Jalen Waddle, the defense isn't bad.

That probably is my number one spot. I also like the colors. The colors are pretty cool. And the weather is good. You know what, Caleb? Shoot your shot. I love it. Shoot your shot.

Let them know that's where you want to go. I don't know that the dolphins are going to be able to do anything to get Caleb Williams. And obviously, if Tua is healthy this year and, you know. A lot will depend on Tua. Yes. It's all going to depend on Tua. How well they are and if he can stay healthy. Yeah.

But I don't think the dolphins are. are going to be anywhere near the position that they would need to be to get Caleb Williams. However, I like it. Caleb, speaking into existence. Right? I also interested... When did he do this interview? Because it's been very cold in L.A. as of late, all right?

For us Californians. It has been. I am willing to complain about it. Listen, I was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I lived there for 18 years. So just miss me with it. I know what real cold. You don't know what real cold is. I know what real cold is. I got it. All right? But I'm spoiled now and I'm openly admitting. I've been cold. I'm cold. I'm born and race team.

and it's freezing. 40 degrees is cold, guys. In L.A. In L.A. anywhere, anywhere. 40 is cold. So I do wonder if he's like, you know what,

this L.A. is this, you know, where's it warm all the time? Miami. That's where it's warm all the time. So I hear you, I hear you on that, Caleb.

But I do think, yeah, I think the dolphins are not going to be anywhere near that situation. No. That's going to be tough. Next year's draft, the quarterback position,

is going to be it's going to be nuts. We've had a lot of fun with the quarterback position over the past few years, but we'll see what happens this year. I think that the movement, again, we talked about it with Carmen,

will be with Justin Fields, but it's not a super heavy quarterback draft. But next year with Caleb Williams, it's going to be something. That's Alex Curry with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. line news.

So we will talk to Rick Buecker about the Lakers, about the Sons, about what he thinks is going to happen in the latter part of the NBA season. Obviously, Kyrie and Luca are together in Dallas, what happens with them. There's a lot happening in the NBA after we exit this All-Star break, and we'll get all of Rick Bueger's thoughts on that, Fox Sports NBA analyst. Joy Taylor, in for Colin Coward. Thanks for hanging out with us today. He will be back with Jason McIntyre.

Next week, Alex and I will be back again tomorrow, filling in for the guys. We'll get to Rick Buecker. Let's start this year with a slam dunk and wireless savings. Switch to Consumer Cellular for talk, text, and data starting at just $20. Limited time offer at $25 off your bill at consumercellular.com slash the herd. Promocode, The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Pauli Fusco here with Tony Fusco. Yo, of course you know us is the host of the number one rated Pauly and Tony Fusco show. World renown. We all know you're sick and tired of these stupid sports shows where the host say stupid things like Tom Brady's the goat. Or LeBron James is good at basketball, which he is clearly not. See, we give you smart takes.

Yeah. And we also bring on so-called famous guests from across the sports world and show them why we know much more than they do. You're off the show! Are you serious? Listen to the Bali and Doni Fusco show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes, for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the look back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sunday, the NASCAR Cup series roars into Fontana for the final race on the two-mile oval. Will Kyle Larson repeat oval and new West Coast Kingby crowned?

The engines fire at 3.30 Eastern on Friday. Welcome back to the herd. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd. Alex Curry and for Jason McIntyre will be in tomorrow as well. And I will be with Rick Bucher later today on Speak 4.30 p.m. Eastern alongside Emmanuel Ocho, Shady McCoy and Dave Howman. And Rick Bueker has been covering the NBA since 1993. That is correct. That's correct. Yes. Fox Sports. Do we always have to bring that up? Why don't we always? Why don't we always have to bring that? Okay, I will stop bringing that up. I like to say how long I've been doing things. I know, I know. But it's one thing to go since 19, since 1993? Really?

1993, I was, you want to how old I was? No, that's exactly why I don't want to bring it up. Well, yeah. All right, so we'll skip past the 1999. Thank you. Yes, it's 2023, and we're going to talk about what's going on right now. How old were you in 1993? I was born in 87, so.

Same. Okay. Yeah. Young. but I was watching the NBA then, which is why I'm a Michael Jordan Zellet, which we'll talk about it in a little bit. So the Sons,

the Sons acquired Kevin Durantz. I talked a little bit about it earlier in the show. I think, and we talked about this yesterday on speak, I have a lot of thoughts about how we contextualize Kevin Durant's career. The owners talks about there's not a whole lot of pressure this year. I think fans and media would probably disagree. I tend to agree with him because I think it's not that easy

to put these things together. Mind you, Kevin Durant is not even healthy. yet. He's never playing yet. Right. Do you think they have to win a championship this year for this to be successful? No. I mean, anytime you can get a player like Kevin Durant, that in itself is successful. Okay? Let's, I mean, let's be honest. As a brand new owner, you're bringing in Kevin Durant to play with Devin Booker and you have him under contract. So you, that in itself is a success. I certainly can't look at it as they have to win this year because you got 20.

games to get ready. It's not realistic. To have an expectation that they should win would mean that they have an avenue to it. And I just don't see it. I expect the champion to come out of the east to begin with. But the second, the difficulty is that this may be their best chance. I think that's what the owner is looking past, because Chris Paul is running on fumes right now. And I still believe that Chris Paul is a linchpin to their success. So how are you going to make this team appreciably better going forward, especially when you moved some pieces that I think have been massively undervalued? McHale Bridges is a player.

Cam Johnson, young player. Jay Crowder was not playing this year, but was a pivotal part of the team that went to the finals and that had 60-some wins last year. So that's my issue is, no, I don't think that they have to win this year for it to be a success. But if they don't win this year, I don't know how their odds are going to get appreciably better to do it. So we also talked about this on speak. And I talked about this earlier with LeBron and the Lakers.

He mentioned that these final 23 games of this season are some of the most important of his career. So he's obviously taking it very seriously. And I thought a little bit about it overnight. And we're constantly bringing up the wizard's years as if they don't matter to Michael Jordan. But we do always bring them up. We don't talk about them, but we do mention them. Almost like, we're not going to count the wizard's years. But we do talk about them.

But that was the Wizards. I realize LeBron won a championship year. But if they don't make the playoffs this year, which is entirely possible, say they don't make the playoffs again next year. When LeBron is retired, when LeBron is done, the book is written, will we look back on the Lakers years the way that we kind of brush away the Wizards years with Michael? Because Michael's success in the finals was so untouchable that we were like, whatever. Right.

The LeBron is still playing at a high level. He's playing with Anthony Davis. And he's playing in Los Angeles with the Los Angeles Lakers. Well, obviously, playing with the Lakers adds something to it, right? and he's playing a lot longer here than Michael play with the wizard. So there's more there. The challenge is if you're going to dismiss the Lakers years, then are we dismissing the bubble championship?

Are we dismissing the three titles? We can't do that. So the issue that I have, I think we would give them less importance if LeBron wasn't giving them so much importance. If LeBron wasn't saying these are the 20-some games most important regular season games of my career, I would look at it and go, look, good luck. I hope you make it to the playoffs. I hope we get to see the Lakers in the playoffs.

I hope we get to see LeBron there because it's always more interesting when LeBron is involved. But when you say it's the 23 most important game, regular season games, then it's LeBron who's saying it's important. And when he says, I can still play for championships, we look at it and go, Okay, so are you going to? Right, then these matter. Right, exactly. And the next couple years matter because you're saying you can still do this.

So Michael wasn't doing any of that. He wasn't saying this is a vital part of my career or I have to accomplish X, Y, and Z. So, yeah, we're probably making too much of the Lakers years at this point in LeBron's career. But LeBron is leading us there to do that. But I also think it's the Lakers. Like if he had done this in Cleveland, if he had won the 2020 championship in Cleveland and now things were going the way that they were,

we would feel this more like a twilight, even if LeBron was saying that. Oh, I think LeBron makes the difference. I think if LeBron just went home and said, I want to play for the Cavaliers, I want to play in front of the crowd, all that, then we wouldn't give it the same significance.

And Alex, I knew that we were going to talk about LeBron on the show today. because Joy got cut off and talking about LeBron on the show on Speak yesterday. So I was like, I know, I know this is going to be part of the show. I didn't get to that yet. I didn't get to that yet. Well, because I think, so what happened on Speak yesterday was our dear friend Rick, I felt gave the Lakers front office a nice kind of landing, a nice pillow landing.

They deserve it. Okay. I disagree with how the roster has played out over the past few years, the move that was made at the Detroit deadline, which I think was a good move. Okay. But I feel it might end up being too little too late. Very possible. Very possible.

And like this, this roster hasn't been what LeBron's needed for a while. And I don't know that LeBron is the one who's making all of those decisions. Like if LeBron is making all of the decisions on all of the roster moves and when not to move and when to move, like he is really playing GM, then, then yes, I would lay that of LeBron's feet, but I do not believe that that is the case. I do. I believe whether it's LeBron or Clutch, that they have a lot of influence on what the Lakers are doing still. Now, this may be the first year where he didn't have as much immediate influence, that he would have wanted all of this to happen sooner. But I will tell you that this was a unique year. I mean, in order to

make deals, in order for them to get the players that they wanted, you have to have the other team willing to let those players go. And whether it was the Utah Jazz or any of the other teams, everybody slow played it this year. That's why you had that avalanche of deals right at the end. It wasn't just the Lakers. Like a lot of teams were out there, like waiting to see what was going to happen. Who was going to say, we're not, we're going to get into the Victor Wembegnano sweepstakes

as opposed to go for one of the play-in spots. And it's really what the play-in has done. This has been successful. by the league because normally by end of December beginning of January you have teams who just go oh we're not making the playoffs let's go the other way we're going to sell off players and it would have made a much more robust trade market earlier and that just wasn't the case this year so when I look at what they were able to accomplish at the last minute yeah you're right it it may be too little too late but I don't know that there were deals to be made

significantly earlier than when they made them. I don't know, Rick. You are struggling with giving Rob Polinka and the Lakers any sort of... No, I think they deserve credit for the move that they made. Okay. I just, I think that when we're talking about LeBron James, that he's playing at the level he's playing at,

and you have a healthy Anthony Davis. I think you maybe try to make those deals earlier. you maybe move off of some of those draft picks in 2048 or whatever it is, maybe a little sooner. But I'm going to say this. Look, Anthony Davis is there because of LeBron James. Of course. Russell Westbrook was there because of LeBron James. If there are two sticking points, if there have been two obstacles to the Lakers, not being everything we expect the Lakers to be with LeBron James,

those two guys are at the heart of it. So he was responsible for those two guys being there. Well, while I have lots of issues with Anthony Davis's availability, they did win a championship with Anthony Davis. So I'll move that one off the table. Westbrook, we could talk about for the next 20 minutes, but I want to ask you about Kyrie. So how do you think Luca and Kyrie are going to work together in Dallas?

Do you think this ends up being long term also? Ooh, that's a, I don't expect it to be. long term just because of all the rumblings we're hearing about LeBron and Kyrie getting back together. And I believe whether there's smoke, there's fire. You know, an AD-Kyrie deal, while I wouldn't do it, I could see that being a very real possibility. Wow. Okay.

So with that set, but look, both of them are trying to make it work. The fact that they lost the game already, trying to get each other the ball, I think is actually a good sign. They want to see how they can make it work offensively. Offensively. Defensively, who-hoo, that's, it's their, again, it's with everything. Where are the expectations? Right.

What do we expect from the matters? Well, I mean, I think this move was made to not only appease Lugo, which I should absolutely try to do, but to try and win a championship. Right. The West is essentially open. Right. I would tend to agree with you. I think the stronger team will come out of the East this year.

but they can get to the finals with this team. Now, I'm with you. You gave up some pieces that nobody seems to be paying attention to, but really good defenders. And the finals last year featured the two best defensive teams in the league. And it matters. We focus so much on scoring in the NBA. You got to get stops also if you're going to win a championship.

And we focus a lot on the star power. And you have to have stars to play for a championship. There's nothing wrong with that premise. But you also need depth and you need experienced role players. That's been a key part of every championship team too. And they don't have those now. And in the regular season, the way the game is being officiated, everything is offense.

So I could see the Mavs doing very well in the regular season for the remainder of 20 plus games. Same with the Phoenix Suns. But then we're going to get to the playoffs. where the whistle is not blown as frequently. You don't get the free throw line as often. Defense does matter. The game does slow down.

And that's where the expectations from what they do in the regular season, I could see where the rug's going to be pulled a little bit in terms of what they're actually able to do in the playoffs. So you mentioned that you think that the champion will come out of the east this year. Yeah. Who do you think is coming out of the east?

I've said the bucks from the beginning of the year. I'm not going to come off of that. But I really do think it's between the bucks and the Celtics. and I am concerned about this wrist injury with Janus. That's not a small thing. So you think it'll be between the Bucks and the Celtics? I do. I do. I really think it comes down to those two teams.

They have everything. If the Celtics don't get it done, do they make massive changes? It depends on how they don't get it done. If it's Jason Tatum, once again, not coming up big when he needs to come up big, then, and I'm not saying that they would necessarily move him, but I could see them reordering it if they have another collapse the way they did with the Golden State Warriors. I think at some point you have to psychologically make a change.

If you've climbed the mountain twice and you fall short, bringing back the same crew, I just, I don't know that that works in your locker room. Yeah, I mean, it's, it would just become a bit of, you know, doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's the definition of insanity. But it makes so much sense what they have there. Yeah. That's hard for me to root for the Celtics as a Miami Heat fan.

But I do want to see them have the success because I do think that well-run organizations that do the build from within and make good choices and all of that, if they feel like it should be rewarded by the sports gods at some point or another. Well, think about where the season started. You just lost your coach. That was a dumpster fire coming out and the way you lost to the Golden State Warriors. And now they're back at the top of the Eastern Conference and you're feeling good about everything. Jason Tatum's All-Star MVP, et cetera.

I kind of want to see, I would be happy just as a basketball fan to see that story come full circle this year. But if you're asking me who I'm going with, I'm going with the bucks. Well, thanks so much for jumping on with us, Rick, and listening to me complain about the Lakers as well. It's okay. It's okay. You're not alone. We might do more of that on speak.

Rick Pueker, myself, Manuel Ocho, Shady McCoy, and Dave Helman on speak 4.30 p.m. Eastern later today, you are questioning and listening to The Her. Joy Taylor in for Colin Cowherd, alongside Alex Curry. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel,

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