The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 2 - Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs are struggling, more on The Tush Push, the Packers look great so far, Greg Cosell

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

NFL Films’ Greg Cosell joins the show to analyze Patrick Mahomes' early-season struggles and what’s really going wrong with the Chiefs’ sluggish offense Colin gives his reasons why he feels the Packers are the best team in the NFLSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's a Thursday, Bill's Dolphins tonight, live. It's the herd, wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. 15 minutes, we all get smarter every week. J-Mack, I was talking about favorites this year and the disappearing middle class in the NFL, which we've been on for three years. So big favorites this season, meaning you're favored by four points or more. I think a big favorite, six, six and a half or more.

But team is favored by four plus points or more are not only 12 and 0. They're winning by 12.5 points. They're averaging 29 points a game and allowing 17, meaning you get more blowouts. So you're getting more blowouts because there's a bigger gap in the schedule. Now, tonight I think it's going to be one of those blowouts. I mean, games that I'm almost guaranteed are going to be close. Rams, Eagles will be really, really close. Yep.

Texans, Jags will be close. I'd be surprised if Steelers, Patriots, Colts, Titans aren't close. Denver Chargers will be very competitive. It's the NFL. Every game feels close. I will say this. I do not get the Bears and the Cowboys. It's basically a pick-em that I don't get.

You haven't touched on Falcons Panthers. That's a good game on Fox. I'm loaded up on one side in that one. I think we'll be talking about it on Friday. I'm sure the audience is waiting with bainted breath. Hey, come on. Atlanta's good. By the way, is Atlanta in your upper class or are they middle class?

Well, let's let Pennix have 10 stars. I think he barely has enough starts. And you put him in the upper crust. Who's that? Bo Nix. He's been awful so far through two games. He has 20 NFL starts and he made the playoffs as a rookie in a division with Herbert and Mahomes. He's fine.

He's good. Chargers? Chargers this week? How about how good is that game? Very good. 46 years, NFL films, joins us 25 times a year minimum at this time. Okay, you know, it's interesting. A lot of times coaches send messages. They go to the podium every week on Wednesday,

and they have a message for the team. And Ben Johnson this week is saying, I am seeing a lot of improvement with Caleb Williams. I didn't see it. What, Mr. Kosel, what did the film say that you see a progressive growth with Caleb Williams week one to week two? You know, I thought in the first half, Colin, that there was, that he was better, because the key thing is being decisive. They want him to drop back and get rid of the football. They don't want him to get stuck in the pocket.

So I thought in the first half, when theoretically it was still somewhat. of a game, I thought that he was much more decisive in what he saw and he delivered the football. As the game progressed, and unfortunately you never want to be in this situation with a young quarterback, and certainly not Caleb Williams, at this point in his growth, he had to drop back and throw on every snap. And that's where, you know, some of the warts that he has right now come out. And, you know, one of the things is in the NFL, and we've talked about this, and the more you throw, the more it shows up, is for quarterbacks who are not used to the NFL and pressure, what's pressure and what's not pressure in the NFL, they start to move when they don't need to

move. They move prematurely and they move unnecessarily. And that's true. I've noticed that with Caleb Williams. At times, it's true with Cam Ward. It's just something you have to learn by playing as to what really is pressure and what's really not pressure by NFL standards. So J.J. McCarthy is young. Fewer starts than Caleb, banged up again. I think he feels a little overwhelmed. I've said before, Michael Panix. I don't have a lot of starts. But boy, he looks comfortable. Gets the ball, gets rid of it. J.J. looks hesitant. Seven of eight quarters, I've watched him. He looks a bit overwhelmed. What does the film say? Are there open receivers he's not seeing? What's it say?

Yeah. You know, I'm always leery of it after two games. This is what I would expect. from J.J. McCarthy. I don't know how you felt about him coming out. I mean, I studied him in detail in Michigan. I personally, in my evaluation, did not feel he was a first round type quarterback. So I'm not surprised that it would take him more time. I know for a fact that they had to rework a lot of his footwork and a lot on his drop, which was not very good at Michigan. It was a problem that he had. And then you wonder, can that be fixed? I think they're working on that and it's a work in progress. So he needs to be a work in progress. So he needs to be a problem. a lot more time. And then, don't forget, a lot of young quarterbacks, then it becomes a function of team as well. Can they run the ball? Can they manage him to an extent where they can be proactive and how they use him as opposed to having to be reactive? In other words, having him have to throw too many times in giving games. So it'll take some time with J.J. McCarthy. Obviously, he'll be out for who knows how long. But I mean, I think they're pretty much committed to him. It's not as if they're not going to play him when he gets healthy.

I want to ask you about Tua. Miami right now has some cultural issues, some personnel issues. And who knows what's going to happen, but they've moved off coaches. They moved off Brian Flores. They'd move off Mike McDaniel. Sure. They always say you can lose games. Don't lose the locker room.

And there's certainly an argument the latter is happening. If somebody took over the Miami Dolphins and put in the tape on Tua, and you didn't know anything about Tua, you knew they was a little small, didn't have a huge arm is is his lack of higher level success is it lack of all line protection personnel issues when you put in the tape on Tua is there a comp what what do you see there's no mystery to what to is Colin everybody knows he's a pure timing and rhythm player that is extremely accurate so everything about the way in which he plays has to be based on that he's

narrow in that regard. He can't do much beyond that. So when it looks good, depending on who the opponent is, depending on a number of factors, he can look really, really good, and their offense can be really explosive. And by the way, that can happen against any given opponent. So, you know, obviously they're playing tonight against a good Bill's team, the assumption is they'll get blown out. But any given opponent where he can play with timing and rhythm and get the ball out in windows. He's a very good window thrower between the numbers, that's his game. But that's all his game is. There's not much more beyond that. So you have to decide. Look, last week, two things really stood out in the tape. Number one,

37 dropbacks, 12 carries for backs. They can't play that way. Two, it needs a run game to be the foundation. And Mike Vrabel, on that staff in New England, they played him to what he is. They only rushed five, two times on his 37 dropbacks because they wanted seven in coverage to minimize the windows. That's what you have to do when you play Tua. You've got to minimize the windows. We look at the tonight the bills are favored by a couple of touchdowns and should be. We look at Buffalo, and you said this last week, you said, their run game is more fundamentally important and better than people give it credit for. So tell me when you watch film, you said that. And so I looked for it this past week, even though it was a blowout early. What does the run game

provide to Josh Allen that without a run game, what are the advantages he gains from it? Well, every quarterback gains from a run game. And then now you're getting into multiple issues. What personnel do you put out on the field? They like to put out a lot of base personnel groupings. They did that this past week. And there are a very multiple run game as well. And James Cook, despite his size, is actually a very tough physical inside runner.

he gets hard-earned yards. So a run game is critical. You know, it's funny, I watched that tape, and I came away thinking to myself, this was a great game for Josh Allen because he plays in four days, and it didn't seem like he exerted any energy in that game. It didn't seem like he had much to do. So, you know, a run game always helps a quarterback. So I think, look, we know Josh Allen, when necessary,

can put on the Superman Cape as he did week one in the fourth quarter of that game against Baltimore. But the way they played last week and granted, they got ahead early, and there was clearly a sense they were going to control the game, which they did. But I think they want to play with a run game. They don't want to just be a passing team. And it's funny, I said watching that tape to one of my guys in the office day, I said, you know, Josh Allen, he's not really a gunslinger anymore unless the game demands it. You know, he doesn't play that way as his natural state, which is the way he sort of played three, four years ago. Now he's very much a piece of an offense, and if demanded, he can do special things,

but he doesn't play like that as his natural state. Yeah. So one of the reasons I picked the Seahawks to make the playoffs, and I thought Sam Darnold would work, is that when Sam has a run game and can throw it 28 times or fewer and does not have to get into track meets, and I think this team's defensive structure, I said, Sam is going to be asked to do, Two or three wow plays, and he's really talented. But I think, and I think that's really the key. That's why in Minnesota with Brian Flores,

he didn't have to win a shootout every week. In New York, when you're saving the franchise, he's like Gino. You ask him to throw it 40 times, you're going to get two or three picks. So what is the tape say so far with Sam? I think Seattle fits his strengths. Well, it's funny you say that because what they did, and it's only two weeks, so you don't know if this is something that will be a trend or not. But what they did last week against Pittsburgh was something I haven't seen very much in the league.

They had 64 offensive snaps, Colin. 45 of them came out of base personnel. They did not play many snaps with three wide receivers on the field at all. So they had a lot of tight formations. They tried to run the ball. Walker had some good success. Sharman. They didn't have any success.

But that's, I think, the way they want to play under Clint Kubiak. They know what Donald is. They love the fact that he was so efficient in the play action pass game under center a year ago in Minnesota. They'd like their offense to look like that. And I agree with you. And by the way, how many quarterbacks do you think realistically can line up and throw it 40, 45 times a week and really be good? That's a hard thing to do in this league. And by the way, it's very hard on your own line, no matter how good it is.

Yeah, I mean, there's a number with Dak who's going to have with three different coaches be highly productive. If he throws over 40 times, Dax numbers plummet. His win percentage plummets. The reality is, at any given time in my life, there's about three quarterbacks, maybe four, that you feel comfortable throwing 40 times a game. It's really, really hard. Okay. It's hard to do.

Yeah. Eagles Chiefs. Listen, we know Kansas City's issues. They're not very gifted until Xavier Worthy and Rishie Rice get back. On the perimeter, there's a way you can defend them now. Now, did Philadelphia use any secret sauce, any deception, or was it just mono-a-mono, we have better defensive players than you do offensive players? Well, it's funny because about a quarter into that tape, I said to myself, wow,

Vic Fangio has taken a totally different approach than he did in the Super Bowl. In the Super Bowl, they did not rush five one time, and they literally played zone in a quarter structure four across on the back end on almost every play. In this game last week, they blitzed quite a bit, a high percentage for Vic Fangio, and they played a lot more man coverage. So he came with a totally different defensive tactical approach. So it's not one thing. But I will say this. I think there is a sense, and it could be a function of the receivers, but I think there's a sense right now among teams that what you want to do with Patrick Mahomes and the past game is really clog the middle of the field and make him work outside.

Now, he's capable of making any throw. That's not the point. But he doesn't make a lot of throws outside the numbers unless it's vertical throws. So they're going to have to figure out a way, Andy Reid, Kafka. They're going to have to figure out, not Kafka, Matt Nagy. They're going to have to figure out a way to work outside the numbers in kind of a short-to-intermediate pass game. You know, it's interesting. It feels like the tush push means even more this year.

through two games, Jalen Hertz has attempted more tush pushes than throws of 10 yards plus down the field. They're not throwing the ball down the field. No, they're not. They're not. And I think to myself, how sustainable is it? But it does, I mean, I look at it, what they are. I said this Monday on the show, in my life, there has never been a quarterback in a team that is better at getting one, two, or three yards. They are now, they don't throw over the top. There's things they're not great at. But if you need one, two, or three yards, that's as good as the chiefs in their dynasty, the Niners in their dynasty, the Steelers in their dynasty.

Does the offense concern you because it just doesn't throw the ball down the field at all? Yes, now it does. I think they will. But I think the larger point about the tush push, because there's been so much talk about it, obviously, this week, is not the tush push itself. It's the fact how many times. they're in situations to deploy the tush push. That's the larger question.

That's the big deal. And we've discussed this. When it's third and seven or third and eight for the Eagles' offense, they don't necessarily have to throw the ball column. And now it changes the way defenses have to play. Because in the NFL, third and seven is 100% pretty much a passing down, correct? But the Eagles don't view it that way. Because if they get to fourth and two, and they're at the 50 yards,

line going in, they're going to go for it. So it's how often they get to those short yardage situations that they're able to go for it. That's really the bigger issue than the fact that they convert on the tush push. Okay, so I want to go back. I asked you about Caleb and JJ. Now I want to go to a quarterback that's got far more starts than JJ. I want to talk Drake May because they host a Steelers this week. Yeah. And they won a big game last week. So I think both of us liked Drake May out of college. I did a lot. I thought he was less polished Justin Herbert. He hadn't started

as many games. I thought he was Justin Herbert, but probably a year and a half to two years behind him in terms of snaps and polish. Okay, so he wins a game. It's Miami in September. That's always been tough on Belichick and Brady struggle down early in the season.

Are you seeing a jump from last year to this year from Drake May? Yeah, and I think one thing you really want to keep seeing, he did it last week, is just the ball placement. When he places the ball well, he's really, really good. And I think it's another example,

and we've talked about this, of scheme and play calling helping him. Early in that game, they called some plays that were really scheme, really strong from a scheme perspective. They had a drag wheel throwback to Hooper. They had a great third down call, because they knew they were gonna get man coverage where he hit Henderson on a wheel route

out of the back field to the right. They're really helping him with what they're calling, to define reeds and throws for him. But the one thing that really stands out to me as well, he's very poised and very calm in the way in which he plays. There's no freneticism to him, and he's obviously got athleticism to him. It's funny you mentioned the size, comparing him to Herbert. I got a chance to stand next to him at the Combine,

and he's a big dude now. And, you know, you almost lose sight of how big some of these quarterbacks are because there's a lot more smaller quarterbacks. But I stood next to Caleb Williams and Drake May. Caleb Williams looked like a high school kid, and Drake May looked like a really big dude. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to get in. I have said the first two weeks of the year that the Packers are the best team I've seen.

I'm trusting my eyes. I think they're the fastest team offensively. I think they're so fast. Everybody runs. Love, the running back, the tight ends, the receivers. They got eight and nine guys that can really run. But it's interesting with their defense. I compared it to when you were in college and you had a really big, strong football player buddy.

You always felt, yeah, a little more courage, go into the bar and have enough flirting. So there is something about Micah that has elevated his teammates. It's almost as if his teammates know they're going to get more space, that he's going to create disruptions. I feel like he's elevating other players on the defense. Maybe they're playing with more energy. Maybe it's because they have fewer snaps. The offense is more productive.

But there is something, when I. watch the Packers, I'm like, they're more aggressive than last year. And they feel more aggressive. What does the film say? Well, it's funny you say that because in this last game, which was Thursday night last week, so it feels like a long time ago, you know, they're getting Edger and Cooper now more involved in their rushes. So they're showing some more five-man fronts. And when you show a five-man front, the way offense is almost always protected is what they call 5-0 protection, meaning five on five. So that gives Micah theoretically a one-on-one.

So they're going to do more and more of that and then see how offenses react to that. They had a sack last week. It was a Cooper and Parson split sack where they did just that and they stunted away from Micah with the loop and then he was one-on-one with the right tackle Connerally and he just ate him up.

But they're also so good halfway, and this to me is coaching. He is so good with his late coverage rotation. In other words, he changes the picture, picture, pre-snap to post-snap. And he's not just moving one or two guys, Colin. He's moving five guys on defense. That's coaching. Because if one guy makes a mistake, you know what happens. So they are really good now with their pressure schemes, and they're really good on the back end with all this late coverage rotation changing the picture.

Jordan Love, first of all, you kind of taught me this, traits. His traits. Size, arm strength, athletic ability, toughness, his traits are excellent. But you look at film and you look at beyond traits, pre-snap. How is he handling blitz packages? You know what I look at? He just looks very comfortable. That's what my eyes tell me. Now, some of it could be good coaching and lots of weapons, but what does the film say?

Yeah, and I think that that happens over time. You know, we spoke about Josh Allen a little earlier, how he's not really a gunslinger in the way he plays. I think you see that every once in a while still with love. That's just kind of who he is. But I think as he plays more, you'll see less of that, and he'll play the game within the game, so to speak. But also, I think LaFleur does such a good job with how they construct that offense and how he goes about. You know, he comes from the Shanahan School. So for him, it's not just individual plays, Colin. It's how you put plays together. What you do in the first quarter, how that affects the second quarter and the third quarter, and the fourth quarter. And there was an unbelievable example of that in the game against Washington

last week. And these were back-to-back plays. And on one play, they come out with what we call 13 personnel, one back, three tight ends. So they saw exactly how the commanders responded to that with their personnel, okay? And then on the very next play, they came out in the same 13 personnel, and that's our big play if we want to go to it right now, because this is really the way to go. Let's go with it. This was the Kraft 57-yard completion. And that's what they did is they basically showed 13 personnel, saw what they were going to get from a defensive personnel perspective, and then LaFleur called this play.

And we're going to break it down here because this is really, really good stuff. I mean, this is why I love watching tape column. This is a lot of fun. So you're going to see this is 13 personnel, three tight ends. There's Kraft because he's the guy who catches the ball. So what did they get? They got three linebackers, base personnel on the defense, but not only that, they got three safeties. Okay, so there's only going to be one corner on the field, and that corner is down below at the bottom of the screen. So they got three linebackers and three safeties versus their 13 personnel, which they knew they were going to get from the play before.

So they put the rookie Savian Williams now in motion across the formation. So what does that lead to? It's something that we call four strong, meaning four receivers to one side of the formation. That's what you're going to get here as we freeze it when Williams gets over there. There's now four receivers to one side. But remember, the corner didn't go with them. So the corners all the way on the other side of the field. So now you're going to run four routes, Colin, four routes, okay, against two linebackers and two safeties. This is exactly what you want. These guys are not. not great coverage people, particularly the linebackers. And what they're going to run now is a three-man vertical concept. That's the route concept here. It's going to be a three-man vertical

concept. You're going to see Williams run deep on the outside. You're going to see that's actually Musgrave, the other tight end there on that side. He's going to run the deep over in the middle of the field, and then Kraft is going to run the seam. So now you get three vertical routes. There's no corner involved in this coverage at all. So here's what you get. So now you're going to see that that's Bobby Wagner. He's probably a Hall of Famer. So he now gets his eyes on craft. But let's see how all this really plays out, because this is really good stuff. You're going to see Williams. He's going to lift the safety to the top of the screen. You're going to see Musgrave run right at the deep safety. And you're going to see now the back expands into the flat so the other

linebacker goes with him. So what do you end up with? You end up with Wagner, who has to match craft, but Wagner's uncertain of what to do, and he's a veteran, as I said, probably a Hall of Famer, so he gets lost. So you end up with just a great concept. Colin, you probably could have made that throw the concept was so good. So, you know, that's what you get. This is what play calling is all about to me, and this is how you structure an offense, and you structure with the use of personnel, formations, motion, and you create, this is what I mean when I always say you define a read and a throw for a quarterback. You can't do it any better than that.

Yeah, and they also have so much speed offensively that when they get you in space, they're a problem even if you do read the play. And at that point, the commanders did not Greg Coe sell. On a Thursday, as always good to seeing you. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it. Yeah. Green Bay's got everything humming.

Play design, speed, everybody can run. defensively. Again, we know head coaches matter. Jeff Halfley. How many times have we talked about their defensive coordinator? Coordinators matter. Robert Saul and the Niners. Defense last year was a mess. They lose Greenlaw, who fungut, they're better. Why? It just matters. It's like having a good mentor, a good, a good high school teacher. The quality matters. And Green Bay right now, the best team I've seen in the league, both sides, coaching staff, run it, throw it, play. they're built to play from behind, I just don't think they're going to have to.

I mean, that's one thing. I don't think Philadelphia is built to play from 10 points down, 7 minutes left. Green Bay is. That's what, another reason why I think right now they're the best team in the league. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day,

seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my work. weekly MLB podcast Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of Pipe and Hot baseball talk, featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the I-Test, we've got all the bases covered.

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Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

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And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm Breaston. taking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Urban Meyer shows up next hour. Checking on that weather, J-Mack, I know there's torrential downpours. You've got to be careful driving home. Yeah, I'm not worried about the weather right now.

A couple other things on my mind right now. J-MAC with the news. No, no, no, no. on the news. This is the herd line news. And one of the things I'm worried about is the Philadelphia Eagles offense. Because Colin, I do believe, like you said,

for most of this show today, that other than the push, they don't really have much going for them. Sure, they're 2-0, but Philly is 29th in yards per game. Wow. Jalen Hertz has only completed three passes of 10 yards or more. Again, like, I don't think it's a huge

deal yet, but it's going to be. Hertz, address. the lackluster offense. I take accountability for a lot of it, and just how we go out there, because that's my job, my job to go out there and be the general, orchestrate everything,

and ultimately make plays, and, you know, giving the opportunities we had, you know, I'm very critical of myself, of trying to make the most of what's given to us. And so there's definitely some evolution that we can do. There's definitely some things that we can grow in, but I look inward on all of those things,

and just want to make the most of the opportunities that we do have. So let me ask you this, Colin. Local media is asking the Eagles about this. National media like us is talking about this. Fans are talking about this. The other coaches around the league are talking about the tush push. I wonder, do you think this makes Philly more or less likely to come out with a different look Sunday than they've had the first two weeks?

Are they going to be just chucking and ducking? Like, do you expect change from Philly? Well, if they look at the film of Stafford and Puka and Devonte Adams and their difficulty at one of their corner spots, I think Nick Sarianis and his staff realize we're going to have to score some points here. The Rams will move the football. I think that's pretty obvious. So my take is Philadelphia probably works to some degree. I mean, they did get the ball more to A.J. Brown. It's just that they were all underneath throws.

So it's not that they are ignoring A.J. Brown. just not throwing the ball deep. And I don't think Jalen Hertz is an elite pocket guy. I don't think he's built the play from behind. There are some guys who I don't want running, but I love in the pocket, Baker Mayfield. I love when Baker just plants his foot and throws. I think Michael Pennix early. Oh, I like that guy from the pocket.

Hertz is a guy that I like moving. The tush push, the RPO stuff, get rid of it quickly. I mean, I don't think it's a coincidence. They throw to the tight end a lot. For smaller quarterbacks, that's an easier target to see underneath 6'6 tight end. So I just think they don't have to play much from behind, but I don't think they're necessarily built for it. Gotter trending toward returning this week. That would be a good get back for the Eagles.

Obviously, you know, we're at a time right now in football where everybody thinks they have all the answers. They know what's going to happen, right? you hear. I mean, everybody and their mom is a gambling analyst. I'm still surprised this is three and a half, Colin. I'm missing something here. Maybe the Eagles trampled them. Maybe it's McVeigh struggles against the Eagles and the offense can't do much. But what am I missing? Why are we getting offered the hook here? Shouldn't this just be three? Well, I think the Rams have had offensive line issues a little bit. I think there's a feeling that Stafford will be under pressure. Everything points to me to either a Rams win or Rams close. So, again, this is one of those lines that was an easy one. There's only about one or two a week that I look at, and I thought, Dallas is pick him against Chicago. That doesn't feel right.

And the Rams getting the hook against Philadelphia. That didn't feel right. So, I mean, I just, I'm with you. I think we're going to have a really close game, probably low scoring, because the Eagles don't throw it downfield, and the Rams defense puts pressure on everybody. I think it's a, and I've always told you, when I think it's a low-scoring, close

game, take the hook. Okay, I'll get the social guys to flag it, but over under half a penalty on Tush-push plays for the Eagles. Over. They'll be one. How about one? Five. Over under one and a half? Under. Because I think the Eagles have spent time this week, getting it

right as well. The league is going to be looking closely. Just trust me, given what happened against the Chiefs. Next up, Colin, let's go to Monday Night Football. Really good matchup. Lions head to Baltimore to take on Lamar. Detroit embarrassed the bears in week two, dropped a 50 burger. Raven's rookie safety, Malachi Starks knows that the defense needs to be on their A game saying the lions are versatile, they're elite. We have to be on our P's and Q's. I didn't know Malachi Starks was speaking in like 70s talk. That's like what my parents said.

You're peens and cues. I haven't heard anybody say that lately. This line keeps coming down. A lot of money on the Lions, Colin, I don't know about that. Yeah. I like Baltimore here. I mean, is there a team, and I don't have this in front of me, has any team had more blowout wins in the last three years than the Ravens at home? And I mean against good team. Well, maybe the Lions at home. I mean, they bludgeon folks in the dome, yeah. Yeah, and I think Jared Goff has never quite been as effective, either cold weather, outdoors, road. This thing just screams Ravens.

Yeah, and by the way, I think you pointed this out. The Browns versus the Ravens. The Browns like outgain Baltimore. That was like weird. It was like 133 in the third quarter. They couldn't really put them away. I also think a lot of what makes Baltimore so effective is they have big play capability. Lamar, Derek Henry, Zay Flowers.

So it's not necessarily with Baltimore always ball control. I mean, you know, Josh Allen has some of this. Sometimes, you know, you look up and Josh Allen just makes a play. So I think, I think I don't worry too much about. that over the course of a season, they'll win time of possession and yardage games. But Baltimore, I just think it's a bad. There's another number here. NFC teams against Lamar Jackson have been dreadful.

So it's just the numbers tell you take the Ravens. Yep. Final story con. Let's go to, yes, the Atlanta Falcons. I love getting these guys in the show because they break my heart every freaking Sunday. So they got the win over the Vikings. Sunday night, really nice for us. Bejohn Robinson cooked.

He is second in the NFL with 146 yards from scrimmage per game. And Rahim Morris, his coach made it clear. He loves his star running back. He's definitely the best player in football. Like in my head, I don't care. He's unbelievable. Like, I love the kid. I love everything about him.

I love watching him with the ball. I love his confidence. I love his demeanor. I love his mindset. I love the leadership. I love everything about him. And like, you know, it is what it is. I love the kid.

I was told in the draft before he came out, I think I said this on the air three or four times. He literally didn't have a flaw. He was Lidane and Tomlinson. Good leader, good kid, could run, could block, could catch. He was, I was told by an executive in the NFL, they said, you don't get, he goes, I wouldn't take him number one because of his position. He goes, he's literally a flawless player.

character, leadership, toughness, everything. And, you know, think about this, too. Nobody wants to draft a running back in the first 15 picks. Let's go look at the guys who have been drafted recently in the first round. Jemir Gibbs, Bejohn Robinson, Sequin Barclay, Zekyll Elliott, Adrian Peterson. You know, when you do take a running back early,

now late first round is no man's land. That's a graveyard for all picks. Kansas City took a, you know, Isaiah Pacheco late. Didn't work out. But if you take a running back in the top 15 picks, they mostly become stars in this league. I think Pacheco was seventh, but I think Clyde Edwards Halears. No, you're right. You're right. My bad. Yeah, yeah. So, Clyde Edwards Halear.

You named a lot of good running backs who went first early first. Ashton Genty went to the Raiders. Oh, I think he's going to be fine. Are you sure? He has two weeks. Besides fantasy owners being upset, Colin, he's at like three yards of carry. And I'm being completely honest. I know we got some Raiders fans on staff. he does not move like Bijon Robinson.

When Robinson hits those holes, oh my gosh. Bejohn came in a flawless player against elite competition. Bejohn also, that was a much stronger draft. So, I mean, Bejohn, you could argue if Bejohn would have been in this draft, there's an argument he would have been the number one player taken.

But Genti was in a much weaker draft where people saw him as a top eight prospect. Bejon, Bejon was seen as a flawless, I mean, we worried about Ashton Genty, his size, his competition. Bijon had no flaws. Yeah, he's really good. In fact, his first year, the big knock was they wouldn't give him the ball enough. How about this one on Fox?

Falcons, Panthers? Listen, I'm that guy who bets the Falcons every week. You know, I'm pot committed to them. I will buy you a jet ski if they're the number one seed in the NFC, because that's how loaded I am. I love them this weekend. I mean, I'm sure you see, you look at injury reports. The Panthers could be down four offensive linemen. and the Falcons all of a sudden have a pass rush

because they drafted two guys and picked up Leonard Floyd. I like the Falcons a lot here, Colin. I'm interested. This team is interesting with Pennix, Bejohn, the pass rush. I'm not giving all my picks on Thursday. Oh, my bad. You want me to just hand over my hand? Yeah, okay.

I like Atlanta, too. I've just lost a small fortune through the years betting. I'll set you. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Urban Myers around the corner as well. It's the herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. but this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notebook. Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman

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Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlic on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen should win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me.

And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Play the Fox Super 6 NFL challenge.

Download the Fox Sports app right now and enter for a free shot to win your share of $10,000 in cash prizes. Yeah, I was just thinking about this, J. Mag. So maybe it's just easier to draft defense. It's just easier to find a game wrecker and a play wrecker than somebody that fits into a great scheme. I'll give you an example. If you go look at Brady in New England, his last year in New England, he was 12 and 4, but it was mostly because of the defense. Belichick could still get the defense right. The offense, they had no receivers.

His last couple years, and then when he left, their offense got even worse. If you look at Kansas City right now, their defense is fine. The problem is they can't find a running back. They can't get a receiver that can stay on the field. They can't necessarily find a replacement for Travis Kelsey, and once again, their O-lines and a rebuild. is that it's probably just harder to draft offense than it is defense. I mean, before Bo Nix was great, they got the defense figured out in Denver. And Sean Payton's an offensive guy.

So like Franklin this year for the Broncos is really good. But last year he was a little lost. And it usually takes tight ends. Warren's already really good for the Colts. But it usually takes tight ends like a second year to develop wide receivers. Brady and Aaron Rogers, as they got older, really struggled with young receivers learning the system. So, I mean, it's very obvious. Greg Kosell talked about this.

When you play Kansas City, you don't have to worry about the perimeter. That's where they've struggled. That's why they keep bringing Juju Smith-Schuster back. That's where they keep bringing guys back. Here's Greg Kosell on what the Eagles did defensively against Mahomes. In this game last week, they blitzed quite a bit. bit a high percentage for Vic Fangio, and they played a lot more man coverage. So he came with a totally different defensive tactical approach. So it's not one thing. There is a sense,

and it could be a function of the receivers, but I think there's a sense right now among teams that what you want to do with Patrick Mahomes and the past game is really clog the middle of the field and make him work outside. I mean, look at the New York Giants. They've had good defensive personnel for several years. They can't get the offense right. Even when they get the left tackle right, he's always hurt. Look at the Jets. Jets have excellent defensive players.

It's been the offensive line, the quarterback spot. They can't get that right. Can't find anybody beyond Garrett Wilson. I mean, you look around the NFL. The Chicago Bears have played defense before. It's usually the quarterback and the offensive line Chicago struggles with. It's just, it looks like, now there are some teams where I think the defensive personnel, I think the Colts offensive personnel is actually better than their defense.

They just, they don't have a superstar quarterback. But it may be easier to find the game record than the playmaker. Is because on offense, everything has to fit with your coach and your quarterback. You may get a really good receiver, but he doesn't necessarily, he can't, you know, he's young. It took Quentin Johnson. Look at the receiver, J. Mack. Look at the receiver for the Chargers. He is now emerging in year three.

You're like, okay, the light finally is on for Quentin Johnson. First year he looked like a bust. Last year he couldn't catch. He's get the hands. Like a defensive guy, you come into the NFL, blow stuff up. You know, just blow stuff up. Play fast. And, I mean, Akib Khalid one time, I asked him about this.

I said, when you went from like Denver to New England, was it hard? He goes, second practice. I knew what Belichick wanted. Noah Fandleman took four years to work himself into Brady. And he's a all-time postseason stud. Akeeb Talib told me, end of the second practice. He goes, yeah, it was really easy defense. So I think when I look at Mahomes and I look at Brady, it's hard to work with those guys.

They demand a lot from their linemen, their backs, tight ends, and receivers. All right. So I'm just thinking out loud here listening to you. I haven't done a ton of research on this. But it almost sounds like what you're saying is for defense, it's easier to draft because it's seabull, tackle ball, chase ball. Yeah, yeah. But on offense, not everybody's twitched up and can get open. Maybe for offense, when you're drafting receivers, you draft for the scheme.

Kyle Shanahan, Joanne Jennings, seventh round pick. That guy looks like a stud, right? If you get the guy who can, it's more about the scheme than the guy. Like Josh McDaniels would turn Edelman, Wes Welker, Chris Hogan, a lacrosse player. You could just scheme them open. That's right. But defensively, you need to find guys who can make plays. Huh.

It's very rare in the NFL when you draft a guy and you're like, man, he is unblockable. It works. Okay. So I just ask. In any scheme, Mike is going to work in any scheme. Aaron Donald works in any scheme. But you can have, again, you can have a receiver who's the fastest guy on the team. But if the quarterback doesn't trust him, Quentin Johnson, first two years, he had the drops.

I mean, they just, Justin Herbert didn't trust him in big spots. But Keenan Allen was a third round pick. He is an elite receiver. That guy's a stud. He didn't go early. Amon Raus St. Brown, who you love. Pooka, fifth round. By the way, was Amon Raus St. Brown incredible at USC?

He was really, very good. But, again, he was really, really good. He was a great high school player, but he kind of plateaued at USC. But he was always a hard worker. Dad was like a bodybuilder. He always ran great routes. He was always a smart kid that he squeezed every ounce of his talent. I didn't think he'd be nearly that good in the NFL.

You know what else he was? He's always wide open in the Ben Johnson scheme. I mean, he's just running around open everywhere. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. Nice. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We get to ask other people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves. their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12

in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast

for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. Jenchie win. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now

and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human.