The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - The future of Kyler Murray

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Kyler Murray: The Tornado you were warned aboutShould we be questioning Bill Belichick?Guest:  Joe Banner   #douggottliebshowSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd. You know, I was listening to the Greenlight podcast. Greenlight is with Chris Long, who I really like. That's a bright dude and he's a fun listen. and he had Steve Kime on. Now, the Arizona Cardinals are interesting because they are a dumpster fire, right? They are an abject disaster. Kime, of course, was fired.

There's now allegations against the owner of some of his practices when Kime was suspended, telling, you know, his then-staffed to illegally contact, illegally contact Steve Kime. So there's a lot going on there. Kyla Murray's hurt. He won't play, obviously, in training camp or in OTAs, and there's a lot of speculation. He may just miss the whole season.

So then you have a highly paid quarterback, and he may or may not play this year. You have to find another player who can start at quarterback, but he's going to have to play in a system, which is ultimately designed for Kyle and Murray for whenever he returns. And, oh, yeah, by the way, you have to find a quarterback that just wants the opportunity. to start knowing it's not his job full time.

And the roster is kind of a mess, right? Like they tried to patch holes with like JJ Watt. He retired. He was kind of washed. They're trying to move off of Newk Hopkins, who still productive but had the PED suspension, doesn't practice, right? Once another contract, huge money. Like, they got some issues there.

But when your highest paid player is your starting quarterback and he's not going to play for at least the first half of the season, maybe more, it's going to be a tough year. But what about that quarterback? Last year in the off-season, he signed a contract extension, which somehow Steve Kime and the Cardinals felt compelled when they didn't have to. They didn't have to.

Like Lamar Jackson just finished season five, and we do think it's probably over. But the fact is, if the Ravens' want to hold his feet to the fire, he can be under contract for three more years, no negotiation, right? Franchise tag, franchise tag, exclusive franchise tag. It's a lot of money, guaranteed,

but only for one year, and it is directly correlated with the number on the cap. Not a perfect scenario, but they could do it. So the Cardinals had Kyla Murray under contract for at least two and as many as five more years without any negotiation and still gave him a new deal. But in it was that little clause. hey dude, you got to like, I don't know, do a little bit of homework when you're at home.

And what I found to be hilarious with the narrative was like, this whole discussion came out after the contract was signed. So either Kyler Murray and his representation, and I know his representation, so I don't believe it's the representation. Either Kyle Murray and his representation just overlooked it or they approved it. I just, I still don't understand the backlash. Like, you go, it's just like players now getting mad at the CBA. Like, you guys approve the CBA.

There's nothing really to argue about. The terms are agreed to. You signed it. It's done. But there was the clause about his, his work study outside of the practice field, right? That they were going to check his iPad. Here's Steve Kime, his former GM, remember he's the guy who drafted him, and he's the guy who signed him to the extension.

Here's Steve Kime on the Greenlight podcast with Chris Long addressing questions about Kyla Murray's film study. Kyle's a proud guy, man. He doesn't want to lose, and he doesn't want to let people down. So, you know, I think his best ball is ahead of him. I think they need to be creative and do the right things with them offensively. But, you know, I think the best ball is ahead of him, and I think he'll get it right. But like I said, it's just to me in that area of watching film, studying the game, attention to detail. I think that's the area where he can vastly improve.

I mean Excuse me Can you replay just that last Sentence of things Right like Hmm Where's your areas of improvement Mm

Go Like I said It's just to me in that area Of watching film Studying the game Attention to detail I think that's the area Where he can vastly improve

I mean All this stuff wasn't an accident It wasn't just the owner You know, you have current Arizona Cardinals players, or now former Arizona Cardinals players, like, he's a good dude, he's just kind of got to grow up. And when they say grow up, the problem with growing up is we want it to mean all sorts of different things. Everybody's telling you the same thing. Like, you know, it's one of these deals where you meet NFL quarterbacks in real life. You realize that there is not just an intelligence aspect of it, like they're all mostly all pretty

bright dudes, but you're, you're like the CEO of your offense and of the team. Like, you're the guy, you're the guy. You got to be buttoned up. You got to be buttoned up. You may feel like Brett Fav and I don't know what, didn't know what a cover two was until, you know, how many years in the league story. But that's the exception, not the rule. These guys are crazy, crazy bright. It's also something you've got to factor in your brain is where, um, compared to regular human beings, they're all much brighter than the average human being. The average IQ is 100.

Like all these guys are in the 120s to like 140s, right? But when you're on the 120 scale or slightly below that, you can be dumb, but dumb for a quarterback is all relative. You don't understand? Right. And no one's saying that he's dumb, that he doesn't retain.

They're saying he's just going to do the work. And this is a lot like, you know, it's like, have you ever watched, do you watch the weather channel during hurricane season? You know, if you watch the weather channel during hurricane season, there's a little bit of freak out to it, but they'll do the stuff where they'll go to the tropics and they're like, there's a tropical thing forming here. And what they're telling you is like, hey, in a week or maybe in two weeks, like, that's going to be a problem.

Or maybe tornadic activities even better. Like I think, Sam, you spend time obviously in Iowa. Music's from California, so he doesn't know. I think most people think, most people who don't live in tornado country think these things come out of nowhere and they're like a thief in the night, right? Like all of a sudden you're just sitting there and you go up to get some tea and then all of a sudden there's a tornado and it sucks a cow out of your path. and knocks down your barn and then disappears again, right? That's what they think. It's not really what happens, right?

They can tell you, like, in advance, like, hey, on Wednesday, they know these, you know, there's a dry line, a front, and this is going to be a bad day, so keep an eye on the weather. And then they're telling you all week leading up to it. And then the morning of, it's like, hey, three in the afternoon, this is coming. And then even when they see a tornado, they'll give the times, like, it's going to be an Moggi at 515, then it's going to be a no-wad at six. And they tell you all these things are coming. And look, you either get the hell out of the way, okay,

or get into a shelter, you know, get into a storm shelter. Hopefully you have one. Everyone is saying the same thing. He has a year to flip this thing. He's got a year to go like, hey, man, you know what? I'm going to put down the call of duty. and then I'm going to study because if I study

all the other things I do, the running, the throwing, the leading, the fact that he's got a good personality, all that comes out more. They're telling you what's going to happen. Go back and look. The dog fighting is not what brought down Michael Vick in Atlanta by his own

estimation. It was that he didn't dive into the playbook. Like Johnny Mansell didn't dive into the playbook. I'd never forget. I had Cliff Kingsbury on my radio show when Johnny Mansell was getting ready to get drafted. He was like, yeah, you know, he just needs to study more. And no one is ever going to say on radio, like, this dude is just all, you know, he's just all physical gifts. But that's what Kyle Murray is.

And remember, like, who's the challenge? He's the winningest quarterback in the history of Texas high school football. Right. Goes to Texas A&M and M and starts something. as a freshman, then leaves because he's not anointed the guy and he's pulled from some games, goes to Oklahoma and immediately, like,

once he starts playing, he's the best quarterback on earth, number one overall pick. Like, he barely even played baseball and had a big baseball contract. He wasn't like a long time, hardcore baseball dude. Like, no. That's just something he did it on the side. If you're that talented and that successful,

it's really, really hard to get people to go, like, I know it's worked for you for a long time. I'm just telling you that it's not going to work long term, not in this league. It doesn't because everybody's that talented. And the guys who aren't that talented make it longer because they figure out what's coming, they figure out the storm that's coming before the storm is coming and they get the hell out of the way. Speaking of which, music, have ever told you my, I owned, I used to, my first home I ever bought was in Oklahoma City. and the and the logic behind why I bought it and where I bought it.

It was in an area called Edgemere Park, really cool little pocket in downtown Oklahoma City. And those homes were built in the 30s and 40s. And so my theory, my hypothesis which is theory, which is not only there's a tornado alley, which apparently because of climate change has moved like to Alabama and to parts of the Midwest, right? It's no longer Kansas and Oklahoma.

but my theory was like, look, if a tornado hasn't come through here in 50 years and there's an area, there's a town called Moore, which tragically has been struck by like four or five tornadoes, like big ones. And people are like, well, what are the chances? Like, I don't know, there's something to the topography of it where in this area, it never hits. And in that area, that area, it always hits. There's something to that with Kyle Murray. Like, look, dude, I get that it's worth.

for you at the very top end of the NFL where you want to be doesn't work and when the guy who drafted you the guy who signed you to an extension okay is telling you and other teammates are telling you in different coded terms you got to grow up you got putting a clause in your contract if that isn't screaming you're you're going to fail and you have a year to prep yourself for it you know and you may think to yourself like well I mean who wouldn't do that if you have a year to prep yourself like look there are people that live in you know where hurricanes are coming and they're told a week in advance

like hey dude get out no I'm gonna ride this thing out I'm gonna ride it out like yeah that's not a great idea like you just go if you just go now like you be good nope write it out and some of these quarterbacks still do the same thing like hey Johnny Mansell if you pick up the playbook you can be really good at this thing and you could be a starting quarterback like Johnny Mansell

is no different than a lot of these guys run around back there you know athletic you know accurate didn't have a huge arm not a big body but I mean in this day and age of the NFL like he'd still be around obviously couldn't control his personal life but didn't study didn't study there's a reason nerds were the world because they did the work

like everybody makes fun of Steve Balmer for his dancing. Like, Steve Palmer's a nerd. But you know what he else he is? He's a multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, they were the valuation. And it didn't do anything to his bank account.

Just wrote the check. Nerds rule the world because they study. It's not really that. There's nothing more to it than that. How would a former NFL president handle the Kyler Murray situation? What about? How would he handle Lamar Jackson? And can you go number one overall with Bryce Young considering his size?

We'll find out next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast inside the Parker for 22 minutes of pipe and hot baseball talk, featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport, whether you believe in analytics, or the I-Test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday,

so do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all,

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Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

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Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? I do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. At the end of your first year, Discover Credit cards automatically double the cashback you've earned. That's right.

Everything you earned doubled. Seriously, see terms and check it out for yourself at Discover.com slash match. Jason Sobel, next hour. Did you know it's National Beer Day? Not Beer Day, music. National Beer Day. National Beer, but it's also a Friday. Good day to have Friday, right?

Five o'clock. I won't give you the best for last topic, but music, your go-to beer. I know you're a wine guy. Your go-to beer as of right now is what? Microphone's not working. Sam, your go-to beer? You're an Iowan, so that's probably, you know. Drumer pills?

Trummer pills? I did not know I was going to get that answer. It's made in Berkeley. Okay. Got it. I am a Mexican beer guy. Straight Mexican beer. Just, you know.

You name the Mexican beer from Bohemia to Dosakis to Modelo and Medella Special, even Corona, which some people say fake Mexican beer. right, because it's made here. But whatever it is, I like the flavor of Mexican beer with a lime in it. Matter of fact, that sounds really, really good. And done at noon today on the West Coast. Just saying, nothing wrong with that. And it's finally sunny.

Let's talk some NFL with Joe Banner, 20-year NFL president with the Eagles and the Browns. He joins us now in the Horde on Fox Sports Radio in the IHeart radio app. The Bryce Young thing is fascinating, Joe. you know, in terms of the new S2 test, which is like the new better wonder lick sort of test, he scored off the charts. He's won at every

level. He's accurate. He's got arm strength. He's got athleticism. He's bright. He's a good leader. Checks every box except he's tiny. What would you do if you were in that draft room? Well, first of all, good to be on with you again.

And being someone who's tiny, I probably have a sympathy for being downgrader for being tiny. But, you know, for me, it would really depend on the gap I had. If I had him first, how close is two? And if two is really, really close and I can feel more confident I'm staying healthy, I'd probably pick two. But it would take a lot to get me to do that. I mean, it's the most important position in the field. You're going to get one chance to pick a guy that can make a difference. I personally don't see somebody on tape that's that close. I mean,

we'll have a set some attributes, but he's not that accurate. I don't think his decision-making is great. DJ, I'm not so sure. I mean, we saw a guy in the championship who got to look like a different guy. All of a sudden is this mobile guy moving all over the place. I don't know for sure what we're getting.

And, you know, people have spoken about the risks of the Richardson and other guys who could become the best in the group, but come with very hard to project things. You're really believing in the new era of quarterback play and be all in on that, you know, to pick him really high. So I'd probably pick

Young first for really all the reasons you wrapped up at the beginning there. Speaking of Anthony Richardson, sitting, right? I mean, just unbelievable physical specimen, arm strength, and even personality, right? It's just he hadn't played a lot of

football, and whether they dropped it a bunch or he misplaced it a bunch, there was some wild inaccuracies. I think the biggest issue is not just in, as you said, the new age of quarterbacks where you run them, but it's the, all these first round picks

outside of Jordan Love, they play their rookie year. And the only reason Jordan loved in play was because they had Aaron Rogers, right? And then Aaron Rogers, once they had him, all of a sudden went back to being an MVP. Isn't that the real danger here? is him playing him too soon where he doesn't get to work and refine himself? Yeah, I'm not sure, though, that it doesn't work both ways. Like, we've always seen two quarterbacks, at least that I can think of in the Packers history that didn't play right away. I'm talking legalized history, but using the Packers example, where he had really

high-quality clerks that didn't pay relatively soon. Let's say by the end of year one. I usually think that that's for a reason. And it isn't always just a matter of who'll give them a little more time. You know, usually really good players play at least pretty well and then get

better, especially from years to 1 to 2 and then 2 to 3, even at quarterback. So, I always get nervous when someone says, well, this guy's got to be given a year or two. What does that mean exactly? And how many times have we seen a guy that we gave a year or two, it ended up being really good.

Because it implies that it's some degree of inexperienced and maybe some degree of maybe a little more time mentally to pick up everything. By the way, people misunderstand that issue. The issue isn't understanding your own offense. I have never met a quarterback that was worthy of being an NFL that could learn his own offense very quickly. What makes it hard for rookie is learning the other team's defense. It's just so easy to confuse them and, you know, take advantage of their inexperience and

so and so forth, unless they're picking things up pretty quickly. So if he's going to struggle, that's what's going to be. It's going to be on being able to anticipate what the defense is going to do as opposed to understanding his own office. If they're having trouble, understanding his own office, that, to me, is a bigger problem. So I understand what you're saying, and it isn't unreasonable, and it may apply in his case, but the number of times where somebody really wasn't good enough, even into year two to necessary play, and then they suddenly became really good, at least in my recollections, a pretty short list. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, there was an era.

there, right? Carson Palmer, I want to say, he didn't play his first year, right? There were some guys that didn't play their first year that ended up having. But in the recent history, you're absolutely, absolutely right. Joe Banner joining us. Okay, we can go through who's to blame for the Ravens impasse with Lamar Jackson all we want, right? We can do the, hey, it's Lamar not having an agent or asking for a contract that no one's willing to give him, or it's a team for not getting this thing done and understanding and being able to find a way to get it done before the Deshaun Watson thing. Like, we can go back through that.

But what I want to ask you is, if you were with the Ravens, what would you do right now? Retire? Can I say that? I talked to a GM yesterday who said, like, this is the most impossible situation I've ever seen anybody put in because he wants a contract that you're not, we're just simply not willing to give him and there's no real negotiation there. I completely agree. I mean, listen, we know from Lomar that he was offered a three-year fully guaranteed

contract to $133 million. So let's look at that. That's the right length for the player to want. That's a reasonable length for the team to offer. That's a little bit low on the average, but not way out of the ballpark. If he's going to take a three-year deal fully guaranteed, he should probably be $140 to $1.45. You could even make a case all the way up to 150. So if they offered him 133,

where I wish somebody from the media would have said to him when he said, you know, stop speculating, ask me questions if you have them, and he revealed this three-year offer. When they said three years 133, what did you say? Did you just say no? Did you give them a three-year counter? Did you say, no, it's got to be Deshaun Watson or nothing?

Because I think then we'd really understand who is not getting it. I've actually defended Lamar for two years because the fact of the matter is by waiting, he's going to get paid a lot more than the guys that went early. Josh Allen went early, signed a six-year contract. The new deal is about to kick in. If Lamar got smart all of a sudden and made the best short-term deal he could, he's going to end up making way more money than Josh Allen,

assuming they play a similar number of years. So what Lamar has done so far is actually very smart, but now he's got to make a deal. and it looks like the only place you can do that is Baltimore. I would work off that three-year proposal if I were advising him. Try to get that average up to where it should be. And no, I'm coming back to the market in a couple years when the cap's going to be $50 and $100 million higher. But I don't know how, I don't know what Baltimore could do to get him there

because they already made him what I would consider a solid but slightly low, fully guaranteed three-year offer. And I've got to say, I think with a player coming up back-to-back years with injury, who plays the style of play that he plays, a three-year compromise, fully guaranteed, is something that is giving up something on both sides and should get a deal done. This is Doug Gottlieven for Colin. This is the Hurt. Fox Sports Radio.

IHeart Radio app. Joe Banner, of course, former president of the Eagles and of the Browns joining us now. You know, it's interesting. Isn't there the idea, though, that, yeah, he may make more money. He wants five years, though. I mean, he said he wants five years, because it was a three-year guarantee, but likely was five years in total deal, right? and that's what didn't sit well with him.

So he wants five years where what you're saying is smart, shorter term, and then you can flip it and get the third contract sooner, which is what Josh Allen is in line for probably in the very near future. Yeah, but Josh is going to have to wait. He did a six-year new deal. Hasn't even started. He's got to wait at least three or four years before he's got a new deal. And then what most teams are doing is they don't rip up the deal and give you a new contract.

They give you an extension. So if the bills do what they've done with other players and what most the league is done with these type of players, in other words, a superstar elite difference-making players, is they've added years to deal. Sometimes they've fronted a signing bonus from the new years, but they haven't just let the player rip up the years remaining on his contract.

So the likelihood is Josh is going to, his future contract will be reflected the fact that he took a six-year deal last time, and the new money will kick in a lot later. I mean, if, well, I did a three-year deal, say for 145, and three years now, he does another three-year deal for, it should be at least 180. That's not a very aggressive increase as a percentage of the cap.

I mean, he's going to be over $300 million over the same six years that Josh Allen's going to make like $2.40. But it only happens if he stops now, signs a contract so that he's getting paid fair market value for a quarterback of his caliber in 2023. If he's still going to just sit there and go, see, the five years fully guaranteed or nothing, he's going to end up really hurting himself. Now, he'll hurt the Ravens as well, obviously. But he's going to really hurt himself.

I don't know. How do you come back from that? What deal do you eventually take from a three-year-fully guaranteed contract that $45 to $50 million is, if anything, market or above? And you get another shot at the cap. One of $25 million a year for three years. That's $75 million. That's $35% from where it is.

So if it's value $50 million now, what is it in three years? when the caps got up 35%. Josh Allen gave up the opportunity to leverage that. People that are saying, well, if Lamar had an agent, well, every single agent that's had a really high-quality quarterback has done a deal after three years if they could. That is not the best thing for the player. So far, Lamar has actually played it better than what an agent

would have advised him to do, assuming that he was giving the same advice and all the other star quarterback. I mean, Herbert's working on a deal right now, Burroughs working on a deal right now. Lamar would like to get a deal right now. What do you think? Herbert and Burrow, how many years guaranteed do you think those are? Well, I think that they'll do just what you're talking about.

I think they'll try to the teams. By the way, Hertz is the same thing. Team will want to get at least five years. The team will threaten to not give them enough guaranteed money if they want a shorter deal. Screw it. What are the Eagles? Not going to sign Hertz.

Of course they're going to sign Hertz. San Diego not going to sign Herbert. But if Herper's Asian walk in and says, listen, we want a short deal with him. short deal and one of fully guaranteed. They will get it. Now, if they say they want a five-year deal fully guaranteed, I don't believe they'll get it. And the

three-year deal is actually better for the player. The only way it hurts the team, by the way, is it makes a little harder to dump the restructure and keep the cap numbers low. Right. But that's the whole, that's a whole thing, right? What's very likely going to happen is they'll still get the three years, they'll just get more money in

the year-to-year, and then they'll tack on the two extra years so that it helps the cap, right? That's, that's the negotiation, that's where you work together on it, isn't it? Well, it is. And I think, like, if you're in a hurt, that's going to be the whole negotiation. How long is the deal? But my perspective is if I'm representing a player and my interest is in maximizing career

interests and short-term guarantees, I don't want to give more to three-a-deal. Remember, Forrow has two years left in his deal. Herbert has two years left in the deal. So even if they do a three-year deal, they're locked up for five more years. That goes up $25 million a year. That's $125 million increase in the campaign. That's over 50% from where I don't think people are realizing in a few years how much money players are going to be making. $50 million for a quarterback is actually going to be cheap very soon.

Mark will be 60 and then 70 and 75 of the next three or four years. Borrow on a three-year deal is tied up for five years. Kurtz tied on a three-year deal is tied up for four years. You want to tie yourself long enough for that. You're just giving up a huge amount of money in almost every case that isn't guaranteed. need. So if you're no good, you lose that money. And if you're good, you would love to be a free agent and you'd be getting way more money. Joe Banner joining us here. Okay. What about, like the running back position, Austin Eccler, for example, super productive. Okay. And his first

contract, they got him on the cheap. Second contract paid him a good value. Now he's supposed to make six in change for this coming year. And he asked for whatever number he asked for was so high, and they were so far apart that they said like, look, if you think you get that, go ahead, chop, finds a team to trade to. He didn't find one, and now they're at a bit of an impasse, right? He's got one more year left, and he's 27 going to be 28. We know he's, obviously you want to get paid before you're 30. If you're in the Chargers front office, you got the Herbert deal, you already resigned Bosa, Derwin James, those guys.

How do you handle a running back? Well, I am trying to find a way to get a deal done, but it's hard to know. the outside, when is the player being unreasonable versus trying to improve his situation? I mean, $6 million, what he contributes to is really, you know, really low. I mean, that's hard to justify to be quite honest, even looking at it from a team perspective. But if you can't find another team, you know, in the end, the team knows he's going to have to give in, and he's going to have to show up and he's going to have to play for that money. What you worry about from a team perspective is, at least what some spectator of Lamar did last year,

which was not that he wasn't hurt, but maybe he was a little bit, you know, able to play with an injury because they played through injuries, and he just decided he'd rather be 100% than not. I mean, the team's going to be worried about that. So if I'm Echler, I'm coming in and I'm reducing my ask. So, you know, maybe I can't get to the 10 or 12. I thought they deserved, but maybe they can at least get to eight. I got one year left on the deal.

Maybe I try to get a promise that they won't tag me, although with the running back position, that isn't a really big threat. But listen, this is all a reflection of a big increase in player empowerment. It's been going off the last five or six years. Frankly, it started a decade ago in the NBA. NFL players are starting to catch up, which is good. There'll be a better balance between what's fair for the owners,

what's fair for the players, and teams are going to have to be smarter. I mean, I was known for doing contracts early, and in return for doing it early, I gave the player security, and we got a discount on the average. Right. That strategy wouldn't work anymore. That's just a wrong strategy for today, because the players are coming back,

and they're in a position where they can demand, you know, a new deal, and it's supposed to having to play out the deal. So, you know, a strategy at one time, maybe a good strategy is time passes and things changed. What's mainly changed is how fast the cap is going up. Six million of all players and $8 million, $10 million a player in literally a couple of years. Every player should be seeking the contract that doesn't go beyond the length of the guarantees, which in almost all cases is two to three years.

Unless the team is willing to guarantee more than that, why are you giving them an option for nothing? And every agent should be fighting for this. And people blame the union. The union does have some responsibility. I mean, they allow a fine structure to come in and enforcement of a fine structure that takes somebody like Echler and reduced his leverage. But this is not really a union issue. Guaranteed contracts that happened in like baseball and basketball came through the negotiations.

Individual player negotiations that eventually led to all these guaranteed contracts. But why would you, if you're the team, why would you guarantee, especially when, you know, like running back position, guys fall off rather quickly, right? They're making less. And even, you know, quarterback obviously, those guys, for the most part, not the running guy. the running guys tend to get hurt and have shorter life expectancy in terms of playing quarterback. But like, why would the teams give in to giving fewer years when they don't have the ability to spread out that cap? And they don't have the ability to make sure they retain you for a longer period of time.

So this is probably getting too inside the beltway here. Shorter contracts will lead to a reduction across the league in miscellaneous charges. I believe that reduction in miscellaneous charges will actually give the team. team is the ability to guarantee more of the contracts and not create any problems for themselves in terms of building out their roster. Now, if they start giving a fully guaranteed five-year contracts, and after three years, players are getting hurt, and then they've got these huge miscellaneous charges, forget what I just said. It's a terrible idea. But the reality is at this point, it serves the players' interest to re-hit the market. It serves the team's interest to not be putting guarantees

into years beyond the years they feel pretty confident the player will be with them and playing at a high level. It should be kind of a compromise for the moment that works from both sides. So if I was dealing with an Echler and he was not getting older, he wasn't playing running back, if I was dealing with the hurts in these people, I'm trying to increase the percentage of guarantee and succumb to some cases like quarterback, I would even be willing to go to 100% as long as the deal was short enough. And yes, it's going to cost me more money after three years. but the teams want more years than they guaranteeing. The players have been giving them that forever.

They should not do that. And this group of quarterbacks, remember, if you sign a three-year deal that's fully guaranteed, at the end of three years, you're either playing well and you get to go back to the table with a much higher cap, or if you're not playing well, they weren't keeping you at that $50 or $60 million number anyway. So it's just like an illusion.

You're tricking your head into thinking you've got $200 million in a contract, when you probably only have maybe 120 that you can really count on. So forget the other 80 and just go back to the table again in three years. Every single player in the league who has any leverage, which is any player that's a high-quality player at any position, obviously quarterbacks have the most, but everybody does, should be going in and getting shorter-term deals fully guaranteed. And I actually don't think they would get a ton of resistance from most teams,

as long as the length of the deal is shorter. Because that provides some protection to the team, and it provides a huge opportunity and some protection to the team. the player. I think that fits this period we're in where the cap is going up so fast for both sides. Joe Banner, 20 years of president in the National Football League with the Eagles and the Browns presenting a really interesting, well-thought-out and a perspective that comes from years and years of experience. Joe, I can't thank you enough. Have yourself a great weekend. We'll talk soon. You too, Doug. Be well.

All right. Coming up next, we will get to some herd line news including why are we questioning Bill Belichick. That's next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that

not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that. sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Once upon a time, I think it was like 2010. You have to track the years. I was working on Mike and Mike with Mike Greenberg.

And it was on like, it was early in March. It was like the week before the NCAA tournament. And the DePaul job came open. And he was like,

Isaiah said it was a New York post article. Like Isaiah Thomas wants DePaul. He'd be a great hire, wouldn't he? And I was like, no, he'd be an abject disaster. And he's like, well, why would you say that? I was like, well, he was the head coach of Florida International. They were bad. He bankrupted the CBA.

I had players that, I know dudes that played in the CBA. It was a disaster. Even when he's a head coach of the Pacers, they couldn't get out of the first round. Larry Bird comes in the next year and they go to the NBA finals. Right? And then when he got the New York Knicks, like he took a bad team. scrapped everything and made it worse.

And then, oh yeah, by the way, the Knicks were sued for $10 million for sexual harassment lawsuit. Outside of that, Mrs. Lincoln, how is the show? Right? So when I said that, so Isaiah Thomas the next day, I'm at home, I get a call. He talks to me for like an hour and a half straight, basically tell me everything I'd ever heard about Isaiah Thomas,

freezing out Michael Jordan, you know, hinting that the reason, a different reason why, how Magic Johnson contracted HIV, the idea of saying Larry Bird was just another guy if he was black. Everything said about him was a lie. When the truth is that Isaiah is just because most people who are on social media

weren't alive and aren't willing to call BS on it, he's just trying to win public sentiment. That's Rhymed with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lie News. There's one draft pick in the upcoming NFL draft, which I believe could shift,

are thinking permanently. We'll discuss it next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurd. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor,

me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule.

of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.