The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - The Jets have a backup plan

Episode Date: March 29, 2023

Nick Wright from First Things First joins the show to argue for Shaquille O'Neal as the most dominant player ever in the NBA The Packers know the Jets need Aaron Rodgers but they have a backup planSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thanks for making us part of your day. Somebody told me to shut down the freeway today, and all the accidents. I don't know. That can't be true, right? I'm here. I don't know. This is bad.

Bad, bad, bad. When I got up at 6 in the morning, multiple wrecks. A lot of good things about California. Rain. nobody's quite sure how to handle it. We don't do well here with the rain. You said bad, bad, bad.

I think you're talking about the Lamar Jackson situation. I mean, it is bad. I found an awesome quote that sums it up. Are you ready? Yeah. In the absence of information, people make stuff up. Just we don't know. There's so much we don't know about the Lamar Jackson situation right now.

And it's really killing Lamar. He's got to step up and do something. He's just getting hammered right now. And nobody's stopping the bleeding, Colin. So the other quarterback situation that's interesting is San Francisco. Brock Purdy, John Lynch said this week, he'd probably be the number one starter. He was 7 and 0 in games last year where his elbow didn't break. But they invested a lot of draft capital to get Trey Lance.

He also got hurt and he struggled when he was in completing 55% of his throws in four games, four appearances. And so Jed York says, you know, despite all the doubts on Trey Lance, he wouldn't change a thing. change anything that we've made about the decision with trey i think tray has a chance to be great but it's it's a bonus when you get somebody at the end of the seventh round that ends up coming in and being very impactful for your team and i mean i've said it multiple times with quarterbacks whether it was alex and cab you know i mean watching jimmy and jimmy and tray and now you know brock and tray and Sam, you can't have enough good quarterbacks. First of all, the quarterback draft class Trey came out of.

We predicted Trevor Lawrence would emerge very quickly as the best. True. We said that Mack Jones should work but have a low ceiling. True. I felt Zach Wilson, bus potential. True. Trey Lance, Justin Fields, love the kids, love the potential. We didn't think either were great enough to overcome chaos.

So far, Justin Fields hasn't. been great enough to do that. Trey Lance, we don't know a lot. These haven't played very much. But if you go back to the 2021 draft class, here is what we absolutely have so far. One star, one who's capable, one who's a bust, and two, we're not quite sure. That is the historic average. You get about one star, a bust, a guy that's good.

enough to start. And then you got to watch how it works out for a couple. And that would be Trey Lance and Justin Fields. But I'll say this and I'll always, always respect people for taking big swings. Luca Karee took a big swing. I didn't think it would work, but it was a big swing. Is that the Niners needed to take a swing because they had Jimmy Garoppolo and Mack Jones was just Jimmy Garoppolo.

Not a great arm, not a great mover, good at the line of scrimmage, limited athletic they had that. They had that. They wanted to take a big swing. Secondly, they had a loaded roster and it had success. But they lost him a Holmes and they were worried about having a great roster without some juice or a special quarterback. So they weren't going to get Trevor Lawrence. He went number one.

They weren't going to get him. And the Jets were all in on Zach Wilson. So they were left with a Jimmy Garoppolo duplicate, you know, a guy that's, okay, or Justin Fields or Trey Lance, and they took a big swing. It's what they had to do. And I'm okay with that. I said before, I don't think Kyrie and Luca because neither plays defense or a championship team. I thought it would be fun.

I thought it would be dynamic. I think you have to at some point appease Luca. I like the swing. I got no problem with Trey Lance. Right now, in all likelihood, he's going to get one more shot because, because Brock Purdy, according to reports, won't be ready for the opener. And if that's the case, you're not going to go Sam Darnold. If he's healthy, Trey's going to get a shot.

So far in four games, the throwing part they've struggled with. But Kevin Demoff, who is a big shot for the L.A. Rams, came out and told Mike Silver at the San Francisco Chronicle, he said, we got a new wave of general managers, and they're willing to be more aggressive. If we penalize them for their aggressiveness, when a decision doesn't work out, our league will suffer as a whole. When you have a team with as many good players as the Niners, you made a lot more right decisions than wrong decisions. Got to take big swings. And I completely utterly agree. Don't have a problem at all with Trey Lance.

We still don't know how it's going to end. He's going to get one more good shot. But if you start looking around at that draft class, it gave us a star, a bust, a capable. And two, we don't knows. That's generally how it works if you have four or five in the first round. Nick Wright would be a first rounder. Co-host First Things First, joining us live. So we listened to the Matt Lefleur quotes on Jordan Love.

They weren't exactly Mahomes like. They were progression. Let's temper our enthusiasm. I'm like, okay, so we don't have Patrick or Josh Allen. What is your guess on Jordan Love today, Nick? Oh, listen, I think that he should, he projects out to be a league average starter. I don't think he'll be a bust. I think he'll be fine.

I think sitting, I think the stability of the Packers organization actually has been helpful. And I think there is a chance that the Packers next year win that division. If Detroit doesn't take the big leap, everyone seems to be anticipating that they are going to take. but I don't think moving to Jordan Love was about Jordan Love, Colin. I think it was about they had to get out of the Aaron Rogers business. I, you know, I saw Mark Tausher, I think it was, former Rogers teammate, saying that Rogers, the entire relationship was ruined with how they treated Jordy Nelson.

And then it really was finalized with the draft pick of Jordan Love, which I would agree with. it's like, ah, the marriage never got over, you know, when there was an instance of infidelity. But if in between the infidelity and the divorce, you guys renew your vows in front of all your family and friends, I'm going to say, well, something good happened. Right. He signed a contract extension. After all of this, it's like, oh, it's ruined.

It never worked. I'll take the $150 million. And then for Rogers to go on McAfee and to say, I want direct communication. I need direct communication. And then Guden Coons to come out and say, dude won't answer our calls or texts. I'm going to trust that Brian Gudenkoot's telling the truth there, in which case it's another instance of Aaron Rogers misleading us.

And I think the Packers just said, we can't go forward with this guy, with our entire franchise at his whims, especially when last season he did look like a significantly declining player. You know, I said earlier today on the show, Nick, there's five quarterbacks. If they were available on the market, there would be a mad scramble to get him. Mahomes, Alan, Herbert, Trevor Lawrence. Joe Burrell. I said, okay. Joe Burrow. Yeah. Half the league would call. Then there's another four to five guys. Lamar's

in this group. There's going to be interest, but there's a concern. Jalen Hertz has only had one great year. Stafford got old fast. Aaron's prickly. A Lamar, last 22 games, he's missed 10. And you say to yourself, that's not fair. But if I'd have made that list up a year ago, Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray would have been in the first or second group. Two years ago, Deshaun Watson would have been in the first and second group. And things, Nick, change.

And I do think with Lamar, the noisiness and the injuries scare people, don't they? 100%. And here, listen, I, I think many teams should be going after Lamar Jackson. I think it's crazy that the Patriots and the Falcons are just ruling themselves out. I think the cult should be going after Lamar Jackson. I believe all of that to be true. I also believe that there are well-founded reasons why people would have some trepidation

because of, if we are going to count the reasons, the injuries. There's one. A second one is, I don't think he has handled this entire. process like a CEO of your franchise type. I think the stuff with the business partner, it's like, no, this guy doesn't represent me, but here's the home gym. It's like, hmm, he tweeted out, here's where you can get all your Lamar Jackson News. I know this is going to sound petty, but I think it probably matters. That is a poorly made website looks like a GeoCities page from 20 years ago. It's like that doesn't, you get, you're trying to brand yourself here as the

face of a next franchise. And here is where I think the Lamar Jackson got, I'll throw one other thing out there. And again, maybe this sounds petty, but if I were running a team, it would at least cause him trepidation. He gets sick a lot. Yeah. Like, I'm not talking about injured.

I'm talking about sick. And it's like is there, I know there was some speculation that his sleep schedule, or nutrition is off. Those are all things that at least give me some pause. I think there has been in some corners of the media, some hesitation to be anything but full-blown supportive of Lamar because he was so unfairly criticized early

and coming into the league and so much of it felt obviously racial that I think well-intentioned people want to make sure they don't get painted with that brush that they are not saying what they truly believe which is while Lamar Jackson is clearly one of the 10 best quarterbacks in the league and clearly should have a stronger market than we are currently seeing, it might be materializing if he was conducting his business the way it looks like Jalen Hertz conducts his. It might be materializing if he had a professional team around him helping him through this.

It is not a no-risk proposition. I will say one other thing about it. I understand why Lamar wants the Deshawn Watson deal. But if we all in the media agree, that was a disastrous deal for the Browns. They gave up too much, they paid too much. I understand why other teams or the Ravens would be saying, we are not going to follow the pattern of a poorly run team that made a bad decision.

I get why Lamar wants it, but I get why other places would be hesitant to give it. So I was talking about this earlier. The greatest boxer of all time heavyweight is Muhammad Ali. And the reason is because of his footwork, his speed, his power, his IQ, his psychological effect on opponents, it transcends time. He would have been good 70 years ago. He'd be dominant today. I believe Walter Payton's the best running back I've ever seen. Why? Because his power, his speed, his inability, run over you, run past you, run through you. I think he'd be as good a running back as the league has today. When you talk about the greatest, not all-time great,

the greatest, you have to consider, could they plan any era? That's why. I think Larry Bird ages brilliantly because even today, he was almost European before European, ball handling, shooting, passing. He was so highly skilled as a forward. So I put the all-time starting five up for me. And I see, I see Matt Jordan's, you can't retract him, LeBron and Kareem. I do think Janus, we may get to a point in six years with Janus and Larry Bird. You're like, we've got to put him somewhere.

But I said this about Steph Curry. Magic and Steph were both poor defenders. But 10 years ago, the game changed. And the more it changes to a shooters league in 20 years, it's going to age much more towards Steph Curry than magic, who I loved. And I watched Curry, you know, last night, eight threes, eight rebounds. It's unbelievable. By the way, so I'm just going to throw this out there. I do think Steph could unseat magic.

in three or four years, more titles, more scoring? Is it off the table for you? Well, I don't think he's going to get more titles. Magic's got five. And so Steph would have to get to six. Here's what I, it's not off the board, and I'm glad you posed it like this. And then I don't know if you want to talk shack

because there's a funny shack argument for your center spot. But on magic, I just want the audience to understand what Magic Johnson, who he was as a basketball player. Forget what he did in college, the amazing resume, and forget even year one as a rookie, drawing up a 42, 15, and 7 to win the title. Magic Johnson played 12 years in the league before he had to retire due to HIV. In those 12 seasons, he was top three MVP nine times. He was first team all-NBA nine times.

He made the NBA finals nine times. So 75% of his years, his team was in the finals, and he was considered at the end of the year, either the best, the second best, or the third best player in the league. He won the MVP award three times. He won five rings. And then he retired fresh off the finals appearance and missed four years, and his first game back, I think had 19, 7 and 10 at 36 years old, overweight, having missed four seasons. So Magic, again, because he missed that time,

I guess the door is open. Yes. But people need to understand. A lot of people believe the 80s was the hardest era of basketball. Michael Jordan won one playoff game his first three years in the league in the brutal east in the 80s. Magic Johnson helped run rough shot over that decade. So yes, Steph has work to do. But to me, what Steph has done is put himself in that, not in the conversation of the all-time pantheon.

but right there. And the guys he is chasing now to me are Shaq and Akeem and Kobe and Bird. Those are the next guys up before you get to Duncan and Magic and, of course, Kareem, Michael, and LeBron. Yeah, I say Kareem's the greatest center ever. Russell has the most titles as a big and a player. But Wilt and Shaq, despite being distracted for big chunks of their career, were probably the most gifted. but focus matters. It's why Brady's the goat, and LeBron arguably is.

They're so laser-focused. LeBron, Brady, and Kobe in their prime, all it was sports. Then Brady late, LeBron late, Kobe Post. Then they moved into Hollywood in business. But Shaq is doing blue chips year two and Kazam three years later. And the downside of that is Kareem wasn't. Most of all, he played 20 years. So, Shaq said this week he was jealous of LeBron when he had the scoring title.

What was your take on that? Well, I understand that. And I think it is a testament to Shaq's greatness that he is one of the 12 greatest players ever. Has the most dominant three-year final stretch. I mean, the guy was 35 and 16 over three consecutive finals. And he didn't achieve his full potential. And does that make, like, he was that. great and that productive and he still could have been better.

The argument for Shaq is a different type of argument because there is no argument. He's the best ever. There is no credible argument that he's better than Kareem. Cream's got six MVP's. But the argument for Shaq is this, Colin. And I say this obviously as the LeBron guy. If the question is, I get one player all time for one game. and I am guaranteed that they are at the peak of their powers

is Shaquille O'Neal the number one draft pick ever. And I think the answer to that might be yes. I think that Ape, even though I have Akeem ahead of him, and Byrd and Duncan and Kobe, all these guys, if the question is for one game or even one series, I can have Apex Michael, Apex Braun, Apex Kareem, Apex Shack, who can, you know, he averaged, I think it was 38 and 17 against the Sixers in those finals, who had the defensive player of the year to Kimbe Matumbo.

If you are giving me Apex Shaquille O'Neal, that might be my number one draft pick, but the body of work is not enough. He wasn't at that apex long enough for him to be considered the greatest ever. But that is his argument right there. For the record, there's the similar argument with Tyson. If you got Tyson when he had custom motto, that's right, when he had really capable people in the corner and was ascending and it wasn't the circus later for one fight against Ali. I mean, Tyson was unbelievable. And it's also the argument, it's the argument right now for Patrick in football.

If you were to tell me I get one quarterback all time for a game at his apex, I think unquestionably you'd rather have Mahomes than Brady. but for the totality of the career, it's obviously Brady for at least another, I don't know, once Patrick wins three in a row, Colin and has an undefeated season, will that put him over? Does he have to get some rings? I'm not sure. But we'll see. But yeah, the apex versus the totality is the question. And Tyson's a great argument there.

Okay, we've got a minute left. Let's pivot back to football. Aaron Rogers. I don't get the Super Bowl stuff at all. He's proven when he gets a new system. it generally takes him a year to ramp up. Even with Hackett and Green Bay, with a Grado line, stability, it took them a year to really crank up.

I think they're going to be a 9 and 8, 10, and 17 if Aaron got there. That feels right to me. What say you? Yeah, I don't get it. I understand why the Jets are doing it. They haven't had consecutive years of high-quality quarterbacking, arguably, since Namath. So I get why they feel like we got to do this. Yeah.

But I would, to me, they are in their own division. They're not better than Buffalo. They probably aren't better than Miami. And if the Patriots were to get Lamar, which they should, I don't know if they will. I don't know that I have them above New England. I just don't know what the model is for a clearly deteriorating player to then immediately at this age bounce back. I understand some would say, well, what about Fav? And I guess that would be the argument.

He's following that same trajectory. But Fav also was one of one as far as, I don't even know if it's how he took care of his body, but just how tough he was and what he was able to play through. To me, the age was less of a factor. I don't get it. I don't understand the smoke or the steam with the jets at all. and I don't think they're making the right decision in handing the franchise over to a guy who does not seem to be reliable at this point. Nick Wright, first things first after us, as always, buddy, great seeing you.

You too. Great talking to, Colin. Yeah, the Shaq, that's a really fun argument. One game prime, one series prime, Shaq was over, you know, I was in the stands for that Laker Blazer series. where the Blazers had leads in almost every game. Lakers couldn't stop Rashid Wallace, went to a game seven at Staples, one of the best game,

probably the best basketball game I've ever been to live. And it's hard. Arvitas Sabonis was so big. So I covered him in Portland. Arvetus, I always said he was a refrigerator with a head. You stand next to him. He was so large and so big and so wide. And he took his shirt off during that series.

You know, I'm in the locker room. And he's got like, holes and blood, and that's what facing Shaq was like. A shack today against all the Euro centers. I mean, when Shaq's early days run on the floor, you've just never seen anything like it. How's this prime shack or prime Elijah one? Well, Shaq, again, it's close.

Well, Akeem out played him. Akeem's game was different. It was very technical in his footwork, but as an overpowering force of nature, Shack was an avalanche. I mean, you could not stop it. Well, except in the finals when Elijah won ate his lunch. But it was a little younger Shaq back back.

Yeah. I know Shaq is dominant. If you lived in L.A. during the Shaq Kobe years. I did not, but I loved that team. Yeah. Yeah. There's three teams in my life in the NBA that have an argument that they're the greatest ever. Jordan's Bulls.

Okay. Shaq Kobe with a great coach. and then the Kevin Durant, Steph, Clay, first couple years. There's no fourth. I don't want to hear about anybody else. The Celtic teams were very, very, they'd be four the Byrne McAil. When they brought Walton in for that year or two, that's four. The problem with the Kobe Shack versus the Durant Curry Warriors.

By the way, Lakers, Kareem and the Magic had a year or two. They would probably be fourth over. Yeah, in the mid-80s. But the Kobe Shack teams were very top-heavy, whereas the KD. Curry, the depth. I mean, they had four starting Hall of Famers. Yeah, but how would the Warriors? Shaq would score 60. Good, and they would lose because three is more than two.

And Curry. By the way, that team had Derek Fisher could hit a three. Oh, Derek Fisher. I'm terrified of Derek Fisher. Kobe was all first team defense. Listen, I love this topic, but you know what's going to happen. Draymond Green's going to be at the top of the key, setting screens. And what is Shaq going to do?

Sit in the middle of the paint because he can't guard anybody on the perimeter ever. He's way too big. Kobe was Kobe all first team NBA. So you had the best wing player in the league and the most dominant big. Yeah. That's never happened, has it? In the history of the league. It's just two dudes.

The Warriors, that team would eviscerate them. And I'm a big Lakers guy. I think the Lakers had a lot of role guys. They would probably get one game in the series. I mean, go back to that roster. But Derek Fisher was Robert Horley, Big Shot Bob. Big Shot Bob. Yeah, very good player.

Fisher. Great three. He could hit threes. Yes. Yeah. Rick Fox. I think. Oh, yeah, Rick Fox.

KG veteran. Go to Rick Fox. They were great. I get it. They could not sniff the Warriors with KD. No shot. You'd have the genius Phil Jackson against. He's a mentor of Steve Kerr.

Steve Kerr would be shaking and nervous. I think you're trying to talk yourself into the college. 4-1 or 4-0? No way. Those Shaq Kobe teams. You had to see him on the floor. It's hard to explain. You could look at that and you got,

I'm looking at Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Kobe. And the role players were all good. Like, if Derek Fisher's not on that team and asked to score somewhere else, he could. So could Ory? What did Rick Fox average in Boston when they needed him to score? Wasn't he like 17 a game? Am I out of my guard there or am I close? I don't have my Rick Fox data in front of me.

Yeah, they destroyed a bad Sixers team in the finals, remember? Ooh, Iverson and. Well, you beat who you beat. They're on the schedule. I know, I'm just saying. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That Cavs team without Kyrie, Matthew Delavidobin, LeBron.

They also beat the team with Kyrie and LeBron. Ah, boy. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman. documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind

on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking What the hell does George Bush

Got to do a little kill Well you can find out On the Look Back at it podcast I'm Sam Jett And I'm Alex English Each episode we pick it here unpack what went down And try to make sense of how we survived it

Including a recent episode With Mark Lamont Hill Waxing all about crack in the 80s To be clear 84 is big to me Not just because of crack I'm down to talk about crack On day but yeah yeah

Literally But just so y'all know I mean at this point Mark this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm trying to, I'm having to set J-Mack and East Coaster. I'm trying to tell him, there's always been an East Coast bias, right?

Like, we know this because the media's all, the networks are all based in the East. You had to sit in an arena and watch Phil Jackson, Shaq, and Kobe in a series of very good guys. People forget the Derek Fisher, the Robert Orries, the Derek Fox. When they, Rick Fox, you go look at when they went 16 and one in the playoffs. Most blowout wins. That team was shooting threes.

That was like 15 years before the league move. the threes. They would play so well today. That Laker team is an all-time team. They were shooting. If you go back to that Sixers final, how many three-pointers did they make in that final? I just had called it up. So the Lakers made 36 threes in the final. That's 10 years before the league moved into the three, and that's with Shaq. Over five games. So 36 divided by five. Okay, that's five games. Seven-threes a game. Seven-threes a game. That's a half for Steph Curry. Okay. The league wasn't shooting a So what I'm saying is that team is arguably, you could make an argument, that's the best team ever,

because they would really struggle. The Warriors have, first of all, the Warriors are the smallest team in the league, and Shaq is the most dominant big in the last 30 years. So it's not a great matcha. And Kobe was also a nine-time all defense. You put him on Curry. He wouldn't stop him. He'd make life miserable.

Let's settle down on it. Just to be clear, they actually went 50. 15 in one because the first round was only a best of five. So they went 15 and 1. The Lakers with, I'm sorry, the Warriors with Durant and Curry went 16 and one. Their lone loss was when, I believe, the calves hit like 98 three-pointers in one game. Remember LeBron, Kyrie, Kevin, went off. It was the greatest three-point shooting game in, like, finals history.

Yeah, I'm not a, I'm not discount. I am saying the three greatest teams are the KD. Steph Warriors, Shaq Kobe Lakers, and then the MJ Bulls. But it does feel like that the Warrior Bowl teams are penciled in and people just sort of overlook Shaq Kobe. I'm not saying that as an LA guy. As much as Kareem and Magic teams were great, they don't age as well because the two best players didn't shoot threes. That's Shaq Kobe team. I think people forget.

And a lot of this is because of Phil's triangle and the spacing on it. That team was shooting and hitting threes. A lot of them, 10 to 15 years before we even talked about that as part of the game. It's a big part. To be clear, the Jordan team you're talking about, is it the first three or the second three? Well, they're both. You know, they're different teams, but I still got Michael and Scotty with both. The rest of it.

But the Rodman, Kukko, how do you say it was last? Tony Kukko. Yeah, he was good. He was arguably the best hero at the time. And also, I do think Rodman was, you know, he was the ointment. He was the irritator. He was the Pat Beverly before Pat Beverly. Well, he was the Draymond.

Green. Draymond Green, better example. By the way, I don't remember perfectly, but there was an old Horace Grant on those Laker teams. Rick Fox could be in your face. You're a Rick Foxx guy. Well, I just think Rick averaged about 15, 16 for the Celtics. The Lakers didn't ask him to be that.

Rick was a guy that gave up when Kevin Love played with LeBron. He gave up points. Bosch played with LeBron, gave up points. Now Fox didn't score to that level, but Rick gave up some of his game to be an instigator, a feisty, he'd get in your face. Rick, you know, Rick was more than good looking. He could play. And so the great teams, Rodman, Draymond,

they've got a guy that just is a squeaky wheel. He's an annoyance. So that Laker team had that. They had, you just, it was impossible to defend him. You had to double or triple shack. Or he would just score. So essentially, it left all these Lakers, Kobe, Derek, ori. they were always wide open

and then you add Phil's dimension the triangle you go look at highlights of those teams people were flummoxed you didn't know what they were bored they were so great by the third title run those Lakers teams if you read Jeff Perlman's book three ring circuits they were bored

they were like the biggest issue was is Kobe's ego and Shaq it wasn't about the league are we going to blow up the league was secondary Nobody could... The only team that matched up with them

was Portland because Arvetus was good and Sheed was unsty. They didn't have a forward to stop Sheed. All right, Jay Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

It's funny because the way you wax poetic about a guy like Rick Fox, I think, well, he was solid, but on the 73 win warriors, Harrison Barnes was a better basketball player than Rick Fox in like every aspect, practically. And we don't think of Harrison Barnes is good, because they,

just jettisoned him. Remember, this was one of the best high school players in the country. He goes to UNC. He's like a top 10 pick. Here's a Barnes, really, he's on the Kings this year. They're winning a lot. But Harrison Barnes just gets lost in the shuffle. And it's like, Rick Fox, yeah. I'm not, I'm just saying

great teams, if you look at them, always have players. The Bulls had Ron Harper. Yes. Ron Harper's an All-Star who said, I'm going to come here and be part of a team. Rick Fox, more of a score with the Celtics, be part of a team. Harrison Barnes is going to be part of a team. the great teams all time are so great.

The one thing they all have in common is they have these peripheral players who pulled back. Ron Harper was a substantial score when I think he played with the Clippers. He was the fourth offensive option for the Bulls. He was like the Clippers, I think, their first scoring off. I think he was with Cavs he was good to. It's interesting you say that because Kevin Love, same deal with LeBron, Chris Bosch. Same deal, a little sacrifice.

They could have been better. Yeah. But the reason that he did. don't match up as an all-time team. They had no size. They had really no size. And that team was top-heavy. That team was three dudes.

By the way, three dudes and Ray Allen hitting a jumper. But that team was tiny. Joel Anthony. I mean, they weren't. They don't match up at all. Mario Chomers back on here. Never mind.

Anyways, let's go to Lamar Jackson-Column. This is a great find. So one of the knocks that you've had on Lamar, and a lot of people have, is he hasn't been able to stay healthy. Now, remember this. Last season, he was unhealthy, and then I'll never forget. We talked about on the show.

Adam Schaefter said, December 24th, Lamar Jackson is expected back. Yeah. He never returned. Yes. Okay? So Lamar went on social media and was sparring with the unwashed masses, and here's what he had to say. I don't remember me sitting out on my guys, week one versus the Jets to week 12 versus the Broncos. How come all of a sudden I sit out because of money?

in which I could have got hurt at any time within that time frame when we know the Super Bowl's been on my mind since April 2018. Let's get real. I'd rather have a 100% PCL than go out there and play horrible, forcing myself to put my guys in a bad situation. Now, that's selfish to me. What Lamar is saying is that he was healthy and could have played at the end of season, and it was over money.

So does that change your whole, he's not available? He's missed X amount of games. Like, maybe he didn't miss that many games. Maybe he was sitting out because of money late in the season. I don't like that either. Why? They didn't pay him. He was being, you know, his fifth year option, yeah, I mean, did he play for free?

He could have gotten paid. He was an MVP. He was taking him to the playoffs. You pay your guy. Josh Allen got paid early. He had a fifth year option guaranteed salary. You don't think Josh Allen and Mahomes were in the same both? They didn't sit.

Josh Allen got paid. That's just because Josh Allen, who's never been hurt, is getting. number one an MVP. I'm kind of with Lamar on this, Colin. I don't know if you've held out in your So basically in the middle of a show of your contract and you're being paid. You were being paid by Fox. Guaranteed. But you're not being paid what you want. Where J-Mack go? It's just not available. No, my back, you know, the chair. That's what you're advocating. That's that's your position. Maybe not me, but for Lamar Jackson. If you're healthy and you're a quarterback and you're being paid, play. I could do TV radio for the next 30 years.

Lamar's window is small. He's not NFL, not for long. Come on, Colin. Come around on this. No. You're healthy. You're being paid. Play.

I got a sport called the NBA that already believes in your theory. I'd like to keep one that believes in mine, which is any employee being paid and healthy should go to work. Crazy me, Zaney, Colin. Whoa, cowards way out there. Healthy, being paid. And go to work. Whoa. Hot take.

I guess we disagree on this. I guess we disagree. Next up, Ron Rivera said this week, the commanders won't be going after Lamar Jackson. Instead, they'll have second-year QB Sam Howell out of North Carolina. And don't forget, Free Agent Edition, Jacoby Brissette as their QBs next season. Ron Rivera expects to see Shades of Brock Purdy from Howell in the future.

Maybe we're going to go with Sam because we think Sam's going to be a good football player. We really do. I don't think this is as much a... wild shot as people think it is. And again, part of it is because you watch a young man like Brock Purdy have the season that he had last year, and you would like to think, wow, we have a guy that's got the same type of ability and skill set. Time out.

We're on. Brock Purdy is playing with an all-star team, so they don't ask him to do any big lifts. Washington doesn't have that personnel. So Sam Howell is going to have to, at some point, carry a decent offense. Brock Purdy just don't wreck the Mercedes. They didn't ask Brock Purdy to carry anything. Just drop back, here's the scheme, deliver an accurate pass. Sam Howell does not have, he's going to have a burden of carrying a franchise.

Well, wait a minute. He's got Terry McLoren, who's an elite receiver. He's not quite Debo, but he's up there. Jahan Dodson was a good rookie. I mean, high pick. Curtis Samuel, very solid. Solid, good, solid, good. And they're going to draft, if you saw my mock draft, they're going to draft Michael Mayer out of Notre Dame.

Solid good. Yeah, yeah, you hear the Niners. The great Christian McCaffrey, the great Debo, the great kiddle. the great Kittle, the great Trent Williams, the great Kyle Shanahan. You got solid guys. Well, they got Charles Leno Jr. and left tackle. Brian Robinson of running back. I'm with you.

Finally, we agree on something. Geez, Wednesday, Cowherd, Ornery Collin. Middle of the week. It's the rain. Got you down. Final story. Kevin Durant, he's back in action tonight? Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, he's missed 10 games with the ankle sprained. You know, he turned it in that layup line. Finally, ready to return tonight against the Timberwol. Oh, I'm watching. It'll be his home debut with the Suns. I love how our video people keep pulling the knit hat since you, like, went on a rant about how cool that looks. I didn't know he was making his debut tonight at home.

He's supposed to be. Well, last time he tried to. Remember, the ankle and the layup line. I don't know. I'll watch that game tonight. Did you tell him to skip the layup line tonight before the game? Grude. J. Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Line News. When you shoot, you score with consumer cellular switch, save 250. bucks a year, talk text data starting limited time offer, $25 off at consumer cellular.com slash the herd promo code the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hi, this is Jay Glazer, and you may know me for the world of football or fighting or even shows

like HBO's ballers. What you don't know is for my entire life, I have lived in something I refer to as the gray. Depression, anxiety. So now I'm coming out with a new podcast. Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer where each week, while we talk about mental health, I hope to describe it. Give it words. Listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast

Podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun. Thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two.

Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jett.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed. That's correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You have a chance to win $5,000 for free every week during the NBA season playing Fox Bet, SuperSep. Download the Super Six app on your phone and enter your six game predictions for a chance to win big tonight. By the way, Woody Johnson, owner of the Jets came out yesterday and said, I'm not patient. Jets have to win now, which is not realistic. That's why they're going after Aaron Rogers. The Packers know the Jets don't have much of a backup plan for this year. They also know Woody Johnson is impatient. They also know Robert Sala has to win or could get whacked.

So that's where you are with Woody Johnson and the Jets. They don't really have a backup plan. But I'll make this argument again. I think the Jets have a great backup plan. Start Zach Wilson and go get one of the two great quarterbacks next year. It's just one year. It's a great backup plan. Remember, on average, this year in the NFL, there were four lousy teams, Houston, Chicago, Arizona Colts.

That's about the league average. There's numbers we know are true in the NFL. Seven to eight coaches will be replaced. they'll be about four lousy teams a year. Half the playoff teams won't make it the following year. Those numbers are, they go on forever, right? So next year, we know there's some bad teams potentially. Carolina, rookie quarterback, Houston rookie quarterback, Indy, Arizona.

But Carolina, Houston, Indy are taking quarterbacks this year, we presume, and Arizona is not drafting them because of Kyler Murray's contract. So the Jets in Atlanta look like two teams. If the Jets played Zach Wilson, Atlanta plays Desmond Ritter, would have a little bit of a pop-gun offense in an offensive league. They've got some talent, but probably win five games. A lot of the other teams that could potentially be bad again next year, Houston will have drafted a quarterback. Maybe a Carolina will have drafted a quarterback. Colts will have potentially drafted a quarterback.

And the other teams that may need a quarterback are going to be far behind the Jets. So when you got a Drake May at Carolina and a Caleb Williams at USC, those are A-plus prospects. Doesn't mean they're going to be superstars. But I've said before, Andrew Luck, I said it two years before he came out, was a can't miss. Trevor Lawrence, to me, was a can't miss. Caleb Williams to me looks like pretty close to a can't miss. Probably need to see a little more of Drake May, but he looks special. So I think that is a backup plan.

I think it's a viable one. You know, what was that campaign years ago in Indy? Suck for luck. That was the campaign. It worked. If Andrew Luck had a GM that surrounded him with protection up front, he'd still be in the league and they would be winning division titles. So you can go in on Lamar.

You can go in a lot of directions. But if the worst thing that happens is you're like, yeah, the Aaron thing doesn't work. He goes back to the Packers or retires. And the AFC, Jets could be a five-win team. Doesn't mean they get blow out a ton. Zach Wilson would probably be better. But it's just a year. It's all it is.

It's just a year. They're not doing that, dude. Come on. I'm looking at the Andrew Luck situation. So the year before Luck arrived, Peyton Manning had that surgery situation. He was on a franchise tag, and he was slated to play. But then all of a sudden, they're like, oh, he's going to be inactive.

He was never placed on a franchise tag. I are. So it was a soft tank because you had a Hall of Famer who was like, okay, we're going to sit him out, we're going to sit him out, we're going to sit them out, and then when you realize we're awful, let's just get Andrew luck. You can't do that with the Jets. You cannot say we're going to the season with Zach Wilson. No fans will show up. Ticket sales

were crater. It will be a disaster for the business. The coach and GM will be fired. It ain't happening. Good luck. Hour three is around the corner in L.A. It's the heard. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.