The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - The Patriots still can't do offense

Episode Date: April 5, 2023

The Giants handled QB Daniel Jones incorrectly Thoughts on the Patriots shopping QB Mac Jones Looking at the NFL draft and the top QBs   Guests: Lance Zierlein, Mike SandoSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Thanks for making us part of your day. Lots of choices. You know, I was just talking to Ryan Rizzillo and I was thinking about this during the break, is that it's very easy if I said, name the 20 best players you've ever seen in the NBA. So we always think it's really hard to find a star. But there's been like a hundred stars in the NBA. I think something that's as hard to find is a great number two that can play with a star. Kevin McAil with Byrd, Clay Thompson, Scotty Pippen, Tony Parker.

Because think about this. So to be a star and a great number two in the NBA, you were the best kid at eight years old in the playground, best player in your high school team, best AAU player, best college player. You got the shot. Now you have to not only pass the big shot to the star, you've been the best player in basketball in every county team and state you've been in for 15 years. Now you don't get the shot. Now you have to take the tougher defensive assignment on many nights to make sure the number

one player doesn't exhaust all the fumes and all the gas on defense. That is hard to find. It's not only talent. Clay Thompson's temperament and talent. McHale was the best college basketball player. He was the best high school basketball player in his state, best college basketball player in the state of Minnesota, arguably in the Big Ten.

He was the best rebounder in college basketball. He's dominant all the way through. And then he gets to the NBA, yeah, you don't get the big shot anymore. No, that goes to Larry Bird. That is hard. That's why in basketball, when you see these dynasties, these dynastic teams, they don't last very long. In football, it's different.

The quarterback gets to be the quarterback. You have three or four receivers, multiple tied ends, offensive line is a unit, three good cornerbacks. Everybody understands their role. Nobody gets the shot outside of the quarterback. It's understood. That's the position. Even the good teams have two or three good running backs,

the third downback, the blocking back, everybody's got a role. In the NBA, who's the best player? They were all great players. And the guy that becomes the Scotty Pippen, the Clay Thompson, and the two are often, I mean, Scotty Pippen's got one of the best NBA bodies all time. Length, his ability to get up for the floor, defend, finish at the rim. Now you don't get the final shot. In fact, now we're bringing in current packs and they'll often get the shot.

Now we're bringing in Tony Koo Coach. We think he shoots better than you. To find a two is really hard in this league. Really hard. So I saw this story. An anonymous NFL executive blasts the Giants deal for quarterback mega deal. for Daniel Jones. Finally, somebody's willing to say it, though not on the record.

That's up to the media peeps. So according to an unknown NFL exec told excellent reporter Mike Sando, the Giants would have been better off doing a bad deal with Sequin, tagging Daniel Jones rather than the other way around. Who was going to step out and pay Daniel Jones? That was wild. We said this. Who are they negotiating against?

Who are they negotiating against? The reason they paid them, in my opinion, is very simple because John Mara stepped in as an owner and made him pay. And for the record, here is the track record when the owner steps in and makes a decision on a quarterback. Daniel Snyder, we must draft Dwayne Haskins. Jim Ursay, let's get rid of Carson Wentz. Say what you will, 27 touchdown, 7 picks. The best Carson Wentz we've seen in years. Jimmy Haslam, let's draft cocky Johnny Mansell, Stephen Ross, lost a first round pick,

tampering for Tom Brady, and John Mara. This kid looks nice, southern kid, and plays a little like Eli. Let's go with Daniel Jones. The Giants were negotiating against themselves. I'm not a litigator, right? Obviously, I'm not an attorney. I'm not an agent. Even I know, don't pay people big money unless there's other people forcing you to pay them big

money. Mahomes would have a market. Alan would have a market. Even Lamar doesn't have much of a market. Baltimore is saying, go test the market. Why should we pay you a fortune if there's no other bidders? It's actually smart by Baltimore. So, I mean, go look at what Daniel Jones did. Let's talk about his division only last year, because that's who you play the most. Let's go to the two games against Philly, the two against Dallas and the two against Washington. He was one, four and one, three touchdown passes, three giveaways, and a passer rating in the high 70s. And that's your division. That's who you're going to see.

And that's with, by the way, a brilliant offensive coach. So I think DeMara stepped in. You would think sometimes billionaires, you know, to be a billionaire, you'd have to be a genius. But all these owners are billionaires. And when these owners step into quarterback deals, it's just not great. it usually ends up. Impulsive decisions. You're romanticizing about the past.

And I think that's what they're doing with Daniel Jones. A nice Southern kid, coachable just like Eli. He's not Eli Manning. Eli Manning, an elite thrower of the football. Eli Manning, great in the two-minute drill. Eli Manning, great in the biggest games. Eli Manning, great on the road. He's not Eli Manning.

He's not close. Lance Zerline's an NFL draft analyst, somebody I trust. He's been covering the draft for 21 years. His dad was a coach in the league. So I looked at your mock draft in mine top 10. And we both had one thing in common. I would not draft Anthony Richardson, the Florida quarterback in the top 10. Even in his combine.

He is so raw. I just don't. I just don't. He's not going to be a quarterback for me. You have him picked at 14. Why? Well, you know, you have to decide. I think one of those two quarterbacks in terms of Richardson or Levis, I believe he is going to go inside the top 10.

And I think there's a chance the other one doesn't. And I go back to, look, the quarterback draft wasn't great last year, but I saw Malik Willis fall to the third round. Desmond Ritter fall to the third round. We'd heard Matt Corral was going to fall. Kenny Pickett ended up being the only quarterback in the first round. And you could argue that Desmond Ritter had much better production and was much more consistent than Richardson or Levis. and the same thing, well, not with Malik Willis. You couldn't make that argument.

One of the things I learned about Malik Willis was it's still possible for a guy who doesn't have great tape to get drafted where the tape said it was. And you kind of avoid the media hype. And when you look at Levis, his tape is bad from this year. Richardson has, you know, he has flashes. He certainly has ability and has talent. You can say the same thing for Will Levis. But Richardson's tape is very spotty.

It's very uneven. And he has a lot of things to work on. I like the upside of both of those players, but it's undeniable to me, Colin, that when you look at those quarterbacks, you have to have a plan and you cannot rush them. You cannot rush Anthony Richardson, especially because I think Anthony Richardson really has to go through more football.

He hasn't played a lot of football. So for me, I looked at Bill Belichick, and I thought, hmm, this could really be interesting. I had him going 14, but I can see Bill Belichick making a move, jumping up there and saying, I saw how the Eagles did it with Jalen Hertz. I'm going to try the same thing.

I'm going to move Mac Jones in a trade, get some trade value back for him, and let's try to develop Anthony Richardson, but you have to have a plan. You can't rush this. You know, the Will Levis thing, and I think there's some traits you would like, Will Levis is interesting because I had an executive in the league, tell me on his tape, I don't like his judgment. Then I see him with his shirt off, flexing in the bathroom. And I had multiple people in the league say, zero, so, awareness. We don't want a bodybuilder. When you, so when you give me two things, it's like I said before, if you had a reputation as having a temper and then three days at work you're yelling at employees, you're doubling down on my concern about you. Will Levis's tape is don't love his judgment. Then I watch his Instagram and I'm like, oh, good God, somebody please get a hold of his iPhone. What do you make on him? Because there's strong opinions both ways.

Well, you know, I don't know enough about the person, to be honest with you, to make that assessment. I do think that there is something about self-awareness. I do think that you want to project as much of a CEO appearance as possible. I'm sure he likes his body type and wants to show it off. I'm sure, quite frankly, that he sees some of the talk about Anthony Richardson this and Anthony Richardson that. And Will Levis is out there at Combine telling you, I'm going to show off my arm because I've got a cannon. And, you know, he wants you to know that. I think he wants you to see how he looks physically.

And look, he looks great on the hoof. I mean, he's got great physical traits, physical attributes, has a lightning quick release, the best in the draft of all the top quarterback prospects, a really strong arm. But I don't care about all that. I care about what are your decisions like when the bullets are flying and the heat is on? How do you handle it?

And I didn't think he handled it great on tape in 21 or in 22, but especially 22. How are you when your team is having a rough time over a three-game stretch? Do you have that ability to lead them into a better place and for them to trust you? What are you like whenever you've got a lead and you're trying to close out a game in a fourth quarter? And then most importantly, how accurate are you and in what type of touch do you have? So the body types are great. Throwing the ball 100 miles an hour is great.

The ability to run the football, that's all great. But those things that I just talked about, Colin, those are areas where I think Will Leveson, Anthony Richardson have not shown those elements yet. And C.J. Stroud and Bryshan have showed you that. So you're projecting on the other two guys. And with Levis, you're really projecting because he does not have the same, you know, athletic capabilities that Anthony Richardson has. So it's, I mean, it is a tricky game.

You just got done talking about Daniel Jones. Not only are you making a pick for this draft, but really you're hoping that you have to make a decision about second contracts. So quarterback drafts are extremely complicated. finally because Lance is also a host on the bench in Houston 97.5. If I said to you, forget all the character, forget everything, you look at this tape all day. This is what you do. I'm an amateur.

I'm a casual. You watch all tape all day 22. You put some time in now. Who is the single best football player in the draft? The lock who will absolutely this first year in will play and produce. Because you're going to have 10 guys that. are going to come into this league and produce? That is a great question.

I would say the guy that I would feel safest about right now, there's two guys, Dalton Kincaid, the tight end out of Utah, incredibly sticky hands, just a really great pass catcher. Don't ask him a block. That's not his thing, but he is a really good pass catching tight end. And I think Peter Skoronski, the tackle out of Northwestern, I think he's a guard with probo potential. To me, he reminds me of Zach Martin.

as a tackle who could turn into a guard. I really like Skoransky. As you see there, he gets bullrush a little bit. He has short arms, so that's not really his thing. But as a run blocker, he is terrific. Put him inside a guard, let him have a chance to become a pro bowl run blocker. Skoronsky, I think, is a really, really safe prospect if you play him at guard. Good stuff.

All right. Lance Zerline, Houston knows all about him. NFL.com. I've been leaning on him for years. Really knows this stuff. It's good talking again, man. It's great catching up. Colin. By the way, I ask USC fans about Kincaid the tight end for Utah.

Ask Pack 12 fans. Pack 12 had great tight ends this year. So Oregon State had one. Utah had one. So there you go. Jim Mersay is taking shots at the Rams. Lord. Crazy stuff today. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeard radio app. Search Herd to Listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

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A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clivert Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of too. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday on FS1, Major League Baseball takes center stage as Corey Seeger leads the Rangers against Dansby Swanson and the Cubs. Catch the first pitch at Four Eastern on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. You know, it is interesting. I don't see the Lakers as a viable contender because I don't think they can stay healthy for four series and potentially up to 26 or 27, 28 games.

I just don't. There's nothing that shows us that's possible. But it is interesting that Jordan and LeBron the debate, LeBron now blows Michael away in every stat, except titles. But we never thought it, the argument for best player has never just been titles. If it is, then Bill Russell had almost double Michael Jordan. It can't just be number of titles. It also can't just be number of finals because Magic went to 30% more finals than Michael Jordan. Right.

I'm watching the air movie trailer last night and I'm telling my wife how good the movie is. And it's more about Jordan. You don't see a lot of Jordan in it. But Jordan's story is really an interesting story because of so many struggles and because there was no social media. So there's a lot about Mike being unveiled to us that we didn't know about Mike at the time where LeBron's out there. with his politics, with his school, with his game, with his Instagram. There's not a lot of mystery to LeBron. There is some mystery to Michael.

So, you know, he just, he ages well. But you look at LeBron now, if he won a title this year with the Lakers, he'd have two with Miami, he'd have one in Cleveland. He would have two with the Lakers, and he would have won them with, let's see, one, two, three, four different coaches. Michael didn't have any playoff success outside of the greatest coach in the history of the sport. So the dexterity of LeBron that he could play with multiple teammates, multiple styles, multiple coaches, multiple rosters. I mean, Jordan was basically didn't do squat outside if he wasn't tied to Phil and Pippin.

They didn't do anything. Now, people love Michael. I get it. But there's got to be, it can't just be number of finals. or Russell is twice the player than Jordan is, and we know that's not true. It can't just be like number of total trips to the finals because Magic got to four more than Michael Jordan did. To me, it's always been, it's a series of things that make the greatest player.

And longevity and duration have to matter. Sandy Kofax, for about a four-year stretch, is the greatest pitcher in the history of baseball. But he's not considered necessarily the greatest pitcher because there's a a longevity issue, right? Like Patrick Mahomes, I think, is the most talented quarterback I've ever seen. But if he retired this morning, he would not be the goat. He didn't play long enough. Like, it is part of it, not just being great. How long were you great? Years and years ago, I think it was an offensive thing. I said to a buddy who had worked in New York TV. It wasn't a close buddy, but he said, you know, I said, dude, a lot of people have worked in New York. The key is

being able to get a job in New York on television and stay there, Al Roker. A lot of people get jobs. The great ones keep them, right? A lot of people have a good resume. They have a good contact. Like longevity has to be part of the argument. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played 20 years. I mean, my entire childhood, he was dominant. Multiple coaches, multiple teammates.

That's part. Kareem plays nine years. We only get the prime, but it's not the same story. So to be able, if you could win one with Darvinham and Frank Vogel and Eric Spolstra and Ty Lou, Michael won with one coach. One. Like, it's something. Michael was more rigid, little more stubborn, harder to play with.

LeBron's pretty easy to play with. I mean, right now, you're watching him with an injury riddled AD and Austin Reeves. Austin Reeves is undrafted. And right now, they've won seven of eight. They're playing great basketball. LeBron's in year 20. And all these arguments for the greatest of all time. Like Dan Marino's great, but it is a knock on him. He didn't win a title. But he was also

great for a long time. So you got to put him in the top 10. You can't completely eliminate him because he didn't have one title. And he didn't. In fact, I think he got to the Super Bowl in the second year maybe of his career. He never got back. He's still top 10. So it can't all be titles. Ryan with the news. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Colin, let's start off with some NFL. A lot of changes have been made to the Raiders roster this offseason. Many of their additions have ties back to Josh McDaniels and his time with the Patriots. And one NFL executive told Mike Sandow of the Athletic, they want familiarity, but they have downgraded in every way.

A little bit harsh there. Some of those additions include quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, wide receivers, Jacoby Myers, Philip Dorset, Cam Sims, tight ends Austin Hooper and OJ Howard. They also added quarterback Brian Hoyer and former wide receiver Danny Amandola is now part of the coaching staff. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm okay with relying on people you trust

and know your system. I think that's okay. I would not have gotten rid of Darren Waller. I would have done everything I can to keep Darren Waller who's just outside of Travis Kelsey. I think he's the hardest guy to guard in the league and that includes receivers. I mean, you just can't, you can't, there's just, there's not athletes in the back end to guard him.

I get bringing in Jacoby Meyer. If you like somebody, they work hard, they know your system. Now, the question is, is it becoming a crutch for Josh McDaniels? There's an argument to be made. There's an argument that it is a crutch. I do think Garoppolo and Carr, by and large, is a little bit of a wash. Cars better, I think, but not significant. There's no track record of playoff wins, of big wins.

It's got a losing record. I don't think the Raiders are worse outside of Walter. And if they hit a couple of draft picks, unlike the previous regime, if they can hit a couple of their top draft picks, they'll be a better team this year. I think the criticism is Patriots haven't necessarily been known for their skill position players, so just bringing them over to a new roster isn't necessarily making a huge impact. We'll look at the NBA here.

the Nuggets suffered an embarrassing blowout lost last night to the Rockets. One of the worst teams in the league. Denver is at the top of the West right now. So head coach Mike Malone expected a lot more from his players. And afterwards, he called out a scene for how poorly they played against Houston. We had a chance to clinch number one tonight. And we talked about it this morning, you know, the opportunity at hand. And we definitely did not take that opportunity seriously because the way we played tonight was unacceptable. playing like that this late in the year.

The best that we're going to play, we'll be out in the first round. Easy. Easy. When we don't do our jobs, there's accountability. And I speak to truth. And me calling us soft tonight isn't something I'm saying to you. I just told our team that. And I dared somebody to challenge me that it wasn't true.

No one did because we as a group were soft tonight. I'm not saying we are soft, but tonight we were. You know, it's funny. If you live in Denver, you're probably looking at the national media and saying you're not giving us respect. Yet if you live in Denver, almost everybody in the media off a disastrous season thinks the Broncos are going to be good because the Broncos have things that work, star offensive coach, star quarterback, nice weapons. When you look at Denver, the hardest thing to come to terms with them is this kind of roster's never been great in the playoffs,

where you don't have your center's a point center. Do you trust the number two, Jamal Murray in the playoffs? They've got some really nice depth. But you look at them in the history of NBA champs, not a lot of them look like this team. You know, depth, a unique center who sometimes doesn't really score 35. A game, he's not Embed or a Janus where he takes it over.

He ends up with 24 points a lot and 12 assists. So my takeaway on Denver is I could see them winning the way. I could see them also getting bounced in the first round if they played the Lakers. It's a, are they soft? I think they're a very unique team that doesn't feel like championship stuff to me. Yeah. I mean, and we've seen the trend in the NBA for a long time now has been, just because you're one of the great top regular season teams,

is no guarantee that that means you're going to make some deep run in the playoffs when you go against like a team like a Phoenix, which just has better top-end talent than you. That's what the playoffs is all about. And we'll finish up with this. Colin, Donovan Mitchell, scored 43 points to lead the Cavaliers to a 117, 113 win over the magic. This was his fourth straight game scoring at least 40 points. That makes him just the 11th player in NBA history to have at least a four-game stretch of scoring 40 points or more.

Great player, great addition. He just didn't get along with Rudy Gobert. He's a really, really good player. This is a perfect fit, too. That's exactly what that team needed. A go-to guy with young Evan Mobley, Darius Garland. Let's go get a go-to veteran guy, fourth quarter big shots. He was a great acquisition for them.

Just put the ball in his hands in big moments. That's what they needed. Yep. Good stuff. Ryan with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly news.

There is a ton of NFL stuff out there. Mike Sando at the Athletic has it. He'll be joining us in about 10 minutes. So I saw this. You know, we've said on the show is, I like smart and aggressive. And, you know, if you take big swings, you're going to strike out. And that's okay. Baseball analytics finally came to terms with strikeouts are okay, right?

It's the ground ball that kills you. And I look at the NFL. When the Rams went all in, I was like, yeah, I mean, LeBron came to L.A. The market was distracted. They were building the new stadium. They went all in on. Jared golf was good. Matt Stafford on a lot of Sundays could be great.

We're going to go with great. And they won a Super Bowl. San Francisco is more consistent, but San Francisco. has been disappointing at the end of years. And if you ask Sean McVeigh, if he would give Kyle Shanahan the Super Bowl, but he would have all those regular season wins, there's no way he's going to do it.

The ring is the thing. Everything else, nobody cares. I sit there all the time. I say it about the Steelers. Ooh, they're never under 500. Who cares? When's her last big playoff win? Who cares?

We're never under 500. It's the Steelers. Win rings. And so everybody now picks up on the Rams and Cooper Cups returning, Matt Stafford's returning, they have a great offensive coach, they have a smart GM and owner, and they have 11 draft picks. They're going to be fine. Last year, the offensive line, you had a star left tackle retire, and then a few months

later, the whole offensive line fell apart. Cluster injuries, magnify injuries, and in a tough division, they just fell apart. It happens. Rams are going to be fine. Jim Ursay, the impulsive owner of the Colts, was quoted saying to local reporters, this is interesting. He said, you know, there was an article recently saying the Rams mortgage their future and now they're paying for it after they won the Super Bowl.

And draft picks not being there. To me, that's what you have to be careful about. Time out. The Rams have Sean McVan, Matt Stafford. You guys have a rookie head coach in Gardner, Minchew. Rams are doing it right. And the Rams are going to be fine. That the Colts, you could make an argument, have become the,

Washington commanders where they have a really impulsive owner that feels like they're holding the organization back. They have some obvious talent. The roster with Washington and the Colts, there's a lot of good players, but they can't get the quarterback right. Sam Howell, Jacoby Brissette, Taylor Heineckee, Matt Ryan, they can't get the quarterback right. So the Rams outside of the Kansas City Chiefs in the last half decade in the NFL, the Rams

have gotten to more Super Bowls than anybody else. They're doing just fine. It's a head coach quarterback league. They are an A at both. And I feel like Ursa is a little bit like that guy that goes to the party, sits in the corner, criticizes everybody's outfit, and he's wearing suspenders. It's like, bro, come on.

Every GM and coach, the biggest fear is your quarterback goes down or he gets hurt and you have major cluster injuries. That's all the Rams had. The Rams are going to be. Just fine. In fact, in fact, OBJ now got an offer from the Ravens. I think the Rams want to sign OBJ. I think they want the right number. They want $7, $8 million a year, redo his contract, make it team friendly. If you told me tomorrow, OBJ would be on the Rams with Cooper Cup, Van Jefferson, and they hit a couple of home runs on the O line. You could argue to me, it's Eagles, Niners, Rams, and the NFC. I could absolutely.

live with that. If Aaron leaves, which we think he's going to, take Green Bay out of the NFC championship bubble. We have no idea what the Niners are doing at quarterback. Philadelphia will be very good. If Stafford is upright and they landed OBJ, this morning, I would take the Rams as the second or third best team in the NFC. It's like, let's slow down. This is a coach quarterback league and they're an A at both with 11 draft picks. They're okay. And Cooper Cup returning. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays. in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of

Piping Hot Baseball Talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the I-Test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday. So do yourself a favor and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble

stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger

than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes

of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream,

This is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of Ton Tons and Wamp, on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, to me, he's a go-to.

Mike Sando, who has covered every Super Bowl since 1998, as a selector for the Pro Football Hall of Fame, he writes for the Athletic. He does such a good job, senior writer for the Athletic, and he's got a column now. It is all full of juicy anonymous stuff here. It is like Watergate here. We're bursting at the seams. So let's start with this. Let's start with the Packers, who we haven't talked about.

We've been paying attention to Aaron and the Jets. So at a top NFL executive told, tell my audience, told you what about Jordan Love and Green Bay? Well, they're just in for a world they haven't been in. I mean, from the day that they basically acquired Brett Farve, they've been living in a fantasy And even last year with Rogers having a down year, they're down 14 points to the bears. They come back, win the game. That's over. It's not happening now.

So they're going to live like the rest of the league. I think the extension of that is, is this a place people want to go, right? Right. I'm old enough to remember what Green Bay was like in the 80s. Yes. It wasn't what it is now. No. I mean, Charles Woodson didn't want to go there.

That's a good point. But people forget, in the 80s, they were not on national TV. because back then you didn't have all the cable involved. You didn't see the Packers. I can remember the George Allen, Washington teams, Landry in Dallas. You got the Raiders, Shula and the Dolphins, a steady diet. The Packers weren't on TV, at least not where I lived on the West Coast. Do you get an inkling from the execs you talk to?

I said, Jordan's not Mahomes or Herbert or Burrow. We know that, or they wouldn't have signed Aaron to an extension, right? He was too much drama. We also know he's probably not. not Zach Wilson or they wouldn't let Aaron go. He's somewhere 13 to 23. What is your lean on what he is, Mike, with all your sourcing? Yeah, I think people did not see him necessarily as a high odds player when they drafted him. So I don't think anyone's really come off of that based on what they've seen. You really have to trust what the Packers have seen in practice. You wouldn't even say in the games

you could read a whole lot of out there's been some good and there's been so some bad. I think initially they're going to be, it's going to be tranquil there. one's going to be happy because this Rogers thing is over. Right? I mean, that's what they're doing. They're solving. They got rid of the headache. But now, what are you? And I think it's totally speculative to think they're going to be great with Jordan Love. They can build their team now in a different way. Yeah. I think that's for sure. Okay. So Lamar Jackson, you talked to an NFL, anonymous NFL exec on Lamar Jackson. What was the takeaway on the situation there? Yeah, I thought one of the interesting things that was said was, as far as collusion against Lamar, is just the idea that,

hey, if Patrick Mahomes was available, you'd have 30 teams offering fully guaranteed days tomorrow, or deals tomorrow. And I think this is where, you know, when we've come on and talked about my quarterback tier stuff, where I talked to the 50 coaches and execs in the league, we basically get a market analysis of all the quarterbacks, he's been in tier two. So he hasn't been the quarterback that you would do everything possible to get no matter what, in the eyes of the league. He is that quarterback a lot of times in the eyes of media or in the eyes of fans. He's obviously probably not in the eyes of the Ravens. So I think it really comes down to this.

Another team sideways with its quarterback, blamed to go around. They probably should have done a deal a year ago. Or if they're going to move them, do it a year ago. Same with the Packers. You could say the same thing. But at this point, he has to probably maximize his value by playing really well. I think if he does that, he turns the tables on the Ravens. Why not go out and have a great year? An NFL exact, I remember years ago hearing this from somebody

in my business, a smart person that said, you know, never negotiate against like yourself. Like, there's got to be a market. And right now for Lamar, there's not a big market. During the Daniel Jones thing, my takeaway was, who would pay him 30 million? I don't even understand the market.

He was one, four and one against his own division last year. What did an NFL exact say to you about that? Totally. This is a prediction I got wrong. I did about five or six predictions coming out of the Super Bowl. And it was like, hey, Rogers will finally be traded. Lamar is going to get tagged. This situation, Daniel Jones, I never thought they would go to 40s. So maybe when you look around the league and see all of these teams sideways with their quarterbacks, they're buying some happiness and stability and saying we got our guy. But why wouldn't you franchise tag him at 32. And if he goes out and earns 40 or 50, great. You're happy to pay it. Right now,

who knows? You have to trust Brian Deval and Joe Shane about this. And those are two good guys to trust. They've built up some trust, certainly with what they've done in the first year. So maybe they know something we don't know. But if your rationale is, hey, we had to sign him so we could use the tag on Barclay, well, why do you have to keep a top running back if you've got a $40 million quarterback. He doesn't need that, does he? Jalen hurts. You talk to NFL executives about him, like Josh Allen. I don't remember a player year two to three making a historic leap. I mean, you knew Josh Allen would play for a while because of his size. Hurtz. I never, you know, I kind of saw him as a game manager-ish guy, and then he's suddenly dueling Mahomes in the

Super Bowl. What kind of deal are executives saying he's? will sign with Philly. Yeah, more of a, you would say a team-friendly structure that he would do the longer deal to give them some flexibility. That was what one of them said. I think it remains to be seen what they're going to do. But I think quarterbacks are really unique in terms of their value, because if you sign a big deal and are just good enough to be the starting quarterback, you're going to get your money, right? I think for some other guys, you really need to be thinking, maximize the first two years, get all the guaranteed, try to get out to the market again quickly, because they'll get rid of you, right, if they have another alternative.

They're not getting rid of Jalen Hertz if he plays well. So look at Kirk Cousins. He's had contracts and he just signs up for another 30, another $40 million every year. So that would be, I think people are looking at the makeup of Jalen Hertz and just saying, this guy gets it. I mean, from how he talks about himself, how he talks about the team, how he works at it. that they would see him possibly being kind of in partnership with the Eagles, sort of the way that Mahomes is with the Chiefs.

Mahal's going to get his money. Yeah. Could he have leveraged them into a little more early? Sure. But it's all part of a bigger organizational plan. Yeah. You know, a lot of times, Mike Sando joining us, senior writer of the athletic, covered every Super Bowl since 98, pro football Hall of Fame selector, a lot of times,

and I appreciate this, the way the Patriots handle the PR with Mac, Jones is a guidebook on how not to do it, and how Mike McDaniel does it is a guidebook on how to do it. And you can see the offensive coach understands the sensibility of support for a quarterback where there can often be doubt. I mean, New England's just clunky at every turn. Now there's rumors Mac's going to be traded. Keep those to yourself. But privately, an executive talked about the Tuas situation.

And what was he saying? Well, I think the idea with them is that I don't know if it was. has specific to Tua. You have to remind me, but I think what they were talking about was just them really going for it right now. I mean, if you look at the moves that they've done, Tyree Kill, trade for Bradley Chub, acquired Jalen Ramsey, Advict Fangio, by the way, who's not a five-year project, right? They are creating expectations around this quarterback and around this team to win now. And I don't think that means that they're incredibly leveraged and have to blow the whole thing up if it doesn't

work, but there are real expectations and it feels owner-driven. I think that was kind of the comment. And we can feel that was Stephen Ross. Yeah. Finally, I like the draft I always have. I don't know how much you cover it. Peter King is always annoyed by it. So I get it. Every writer has its own feel. I do, I said this yesterday. You never move unless there's a significant upgrade of it's a better school. It's a better view because moving's hard and expensive. I don't think you move up in an NFL draft. It's expensive and difficult for C.J. Strouder Will Levis. I do think you make a move for a kid that you think maybe a bit small but feels transcendent.

And I think Bryce Young is that kid. Around the league this time of the year, are you getting a feel for like a number one pick? Is this stuff really covert? I know that's like Mel Kiper's job. But what are you feeling what Carolina is going to do? So I feel like that C.J. Stroud and Bryce Young are in the same bucket to a lot of teams. and that some people might look at them both as being worth taking that early. And if you have any concerns about Bryce Young on the size, you could actually prefer Stroud.

And then there would be a big gap possibly with Will Levis on down to Anthony Richardson. That's sort of how I see. So I think there's uncertainty. I wouldn't surprise me at all. Like I think Carolina could easily take C.J. Stroud. Okay. All right. Mike Sandoz, senior writer, The Athletic.

Read him regularly. Great seeing you as always. Mike. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you. I was talking about New England. And think about, there's a story today that Bill Belichick shopped Mack Jones. I don't know if it's true.

But I generally don't think people make it up. But they have basically written a book on how not to handle him. So number one, they overpay his rookie year for marginal free agents. So they put some, you know, some big expectations on him. Not long after they bench him for Bailey's appy. Not great. They've never at any point, Belichick's never come out and say he's the guy. They also put a DC as offensive coordinator.

They've had a couple of reaches in the draft, and they're leaking trade rumors. It's literally how not to treat a rookie quarterback. But a great example of this is we look at the Patriots as like this, you know, this great organization and the Chargers never delivered. But look at how the Chargers have handled Justin Herbert. So year one, very supportive. We love this kid. He's the future. A lot of talk. Year two, they draft a left tackle Rashon Slater and they rebuild the O line.

Year three, they re-sign Mike Williams. Pretty costly. He'd add some injuries, but a big target. Mike Williams. They paid a lot of money. Not everybody loved it. They re-sign him. And then we go into year four. What do they do?

Immediately, Kellyn Moore is on the market as an OC and they go grab him. Every year, it's support Justin Herbert. We never thought of Cincinnati as a great organization, but they draft Joe Burrell, right? Year one, they go get T. Higgins. Year two, it's Jamar Chase, and they buy a defense so the kid doesn't have to be in wild shootouts, right? Year three, they go get, they go upgrade their offensive line. They spend big money. Constant moves.

Even Buffalo, with a defensive culture in Sean McDermott. They had a Stefan Diggs. They've drafted Tide. Men's. Now, they haven't done a good job building a run game, but they went out two times. Brian Daibol was a hot coach on the market. They spent money to get him. He got a job. They went and spent big money on Ken Dorsey. He was a hot prospect. They're getting him elite offensive coordinators on the market outbidding teams. So there is a way to do this. And I don't think Buffalo has done as good a job as Cincinnati or the Chargers. But I think in those instances,

there is a guidebook, there is a way to treat young quarterbacks. I mean, Cliff Kingsbury, for all the doubters on him, you know, took a lot of arrows for the first couple years. They got him weapons. They got him a tight end. They got him receivers. You know, they got Kyler Murray an offensive coach, right? They started leaning offense.

That's the way to do it. Now, that hasn't panned out because of Kyler's drama and other reasons. The roster got rid of the GM. They got problems at the top of the org. But I just, I look at the way New England handles it and it feels like a clunky, clumsy defensive culture that just doesn't get the position. They still have never wrapped their arms around and said, hey, we really like this kid. He's the guy. They're benching him for Bailey Zappy, which was fun for about three weeks.

And then apparently it split the locker room. We've heard that now from Patriots. It's not the way to do it. And so the fact that I often say it's not what the story is that's out. It's why is the story out? Why are there rumors out that Mack Jones is on the market? Keep those to yourself. I don't need to know what you had for lunch on Twitter,

and I don't need to know if you're shopping your quarterback. I've had lots of secrets. If I want them to be secrets, they don't get out. This doesn't need to be out. Hour three next. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David, David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas

on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.