The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 2 - Thoughts on the Super Bowl favorite, possible friction between Bo Nix and Sean Payton

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Colin talks to Greg Cosell about the punishment Bill Belichick received for SpyGate, why the Seahawks are the favorites in the Super Bowl against the Patriots, if the Rams have a possible blueprint for Seattle, and more! He also discusses the possible friction between Broncos QB Bo Nix and HC Sean PaytonSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smyl and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Guy Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast, Point Game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game.

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Thanks for listening to The Heard Podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What's so funny? Here we go. It's our two. Greg CoSell around the corner. You know, yesterday we spent a lot of time talking about Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft. This sounds crazy to say, but I absolutely firmly believe what I'm about to say.

Tom Brady's underrated. I said it. Think about this. This is not to discredit Belichick, whom you all believe, and I think I probably do, is the best coach in the history of the NFL. So Jimmy Johnson won a bunch of Super Bowls with Troy Aikman. But even when Jimmy went to Miami without Troy Aikman, who was in his prime with Jimmy, even with an old Dan Marino, Jimmy won 56% of his games in Miami. And Marino's knees were shot. He couldn't move.

He was old grumpy Dan Marino. In fact, Jimmy had a higher winning percentage, believe it or not, in Miami. Without Akeman, Joe Gibbs won a Super Bowl three different quarterbacks. Bill Parcells won a Super Bowl with Phil Sims and Jeff Hostetler. Andy Reid wins with every quarterback. Got to a Super Bowl with Donovan McNabb. When you just pull Brady out of Belichick, he got fired a lot and won 45% of his games. And I think that speaks to how much Tom Brady takes off the table.

Belichick didn't have to worry. about negative plays and pre-snap penalties and dumb interceptions. Brady is underrated. All these other Hall of Fame quarterback, Hall of Fame coaches, they didn't have to win Super Bowls, but they won. Kyle Shanahan got to a Super Bowl with Garoppolo. He can get to a Super Bowl or get to a conference championship with Brock Purdy. I mean, it's just incredible.

I mean, John Harbaugh's winning with Lamarmo. Marr, he's winning with Joe Flacco, Andy Reid wins with everybody. Belichick, who we view as the greatest coach ever, you just pull Tom out. You can pull all these great receivers he had out. You can pull Gronk out. You pull Tom out. It all unfolds. It just unravels and the house comes down.

And I think that speaks, again, winning percentage with Brady. Brady without Belichick won 65% of his games. Brady wins everywhere. Bill without Tom, 45%. And this is not to discredit Bill. But a lot of these coaches, they still had decent records. I mean, Mike Tomlin without Big Ben. He's still got a winning record. I mean, Sean McDermott got to the playoffs with Tyron Taylor,

considered like a high-end backup. And again, this is not the discredit, but I think there are these occasional superstars that you look at it and you're like, man, are we giving them full credit for that? I don't know. Greg CoSell, we always give him credit. 46 years, NFL Films is joining us on Thursday.

So, like, whenever you have these coaching cycles, there's one or two that feel like they'll work. John Harbaugh with the Giants. You know, they've got Jackson Dart, keep them out of the blue tent, they got some cap space, they have some nice pieces. It feels like he's a lot of. nice cultural fit in New York. And then there are some coaches, I don't know. Joe Brady knows the system. Josh Allen's comfortable with Joe Brady. What does Joe Brady do to the Buffalo offense

that feels like sort of his signature, Greg? Well, it's funny, Colin, because do you ever really know with a new coach? I mean, we all talk about it, but I don't think you ever know because unlike someone like Harbaugh, and he'd probably be the exception in today's world, but I think coaches now get hired because they're really good game planning and calling plays on one side of the ball. That's the reason coaches tend to get hired. And I think, you know, obviously in Buffalo, they've averaged a lot of points per game. They have Josh Allen. It's funny.

I watch their tape and I feel like that they need a more expansive pass game. Now, I understand that they don't have great receivers and maybe that factors in. But you could also take the argument that if you don't have great receivers, receivers, then you've really got to scheme it up even more. So look, they've done well. You can't argue that they haven't done well. That's the bottom line. They've certainly developed a great run game.

I guess we haven't heard more about it, but it seems as if Aaron Kromer has retired. If he has, then obviously there's a change with your offensive line, because Kromer, I'm sure, one of the best old line coaches in the last 25 years, I'm sure he was mostly responsible for the run game success. so we'll assume if that continues at the same level. But to me, they're kind of an interesting and odd offense to watch because they don't really attack in the past game the way you would think with Josh Allen. So I'm curious to see how this goes forward.

What do we make of the Broncos and Rams fourth down attempts? I don't mind going for it, especially if Bow Nix would have been starting, I'd feel more comfortable than a backup going forward. But the O-line for Denver's good, you were at home, whereas Stafford was in the end zone in Seattle against the Seahawks defense, and it was fourth and four, not fourth and one. What did you make of Peyton going for it and McVeigh? I can only give you my opinion, and you know that there's opinions about this,

and people have different points of view, and you can argue there's no right or wrong. Maybe I'm old-schooling this. Look, that's the way I feel. But my opinion is in tight playoff games, and I think when there are points to be taken, you've got to take them. That's just my sense. I sort of believe the whole Bill Parcell's approach

that you keep your team in the game as long as you can. I mean, look at the Rams situation. And this is no knock on McVeigh. The guy's obviously brilliant. That's not my point at all. This is not a knock on coaches. I'm really just giving you my point of view. But I think that if they had kicked a field goal there

with five minutes to go and made it a one-point game, I think that probably changes the play calling by Kubiak a little bit because now he knows that if the Rams get to the 40-yard line, the 35-yard line, they can win the game with a field goal instead of having to go an extra 40, 35 yards to get a touchdown, and I think that just changes the feel of a game. So that's just my point of view. I'm sure analytics people would tell me I'm wrong, and that's okay. This is not something I argue with people about because it's just my point of view.

Yeah. I want to talk about New England before we get to Seattle and the Rams and that game and the Super Bowl. How much is Drake May, the Patriots quarterback, how much of his rushing ability, his mobility factors into the offense and play calling, in your opinion? I don't, look, there's no coach that tells a quarterback on third and seven drop back and run. So I think that that just happens, and he's very good at it. And clearly the play we're looking at now is a design run in the low red zone, which obviously you have a mobile quarterback you can do. Now we're looking at some scrambles. And, you know, I think it factors in in a number of ways.

Number one, you can save bad plays. In other words, if the defense wins tactically, a quarterback can save the play because of his mobility. And then number two, then it impacts how a defense has to play those critical high leverage downs. Third and seven, third and eight. How do they play it? Do they spy, which, of course, takes a player out of the rush and out of coverage? How do they go about it? The Broncos did not spy.

The Seahawks have not shown that they're a spy team, and we'll talk more about that next week when we do a preview. But I think it impacts the game in multiple ways, and he's done that very, very well this season, and it's clearly something that we probably didn't think he would do as well as he's done it in his second year in the league. All right, so Seattle's roster feels like it is more complete than New England. That's why they're a favorite in the Super Bowl,

and most people feel if it was going to go sideways for one team. Seattle's just got a lot of volume and length and speed and youth. But yet Matt Stafford, the last couple times he played him, pecked him apart. Yeah. Is that just Stafford? Can you duplicate that if you're New England, or is that just Stafford being Stafford? Well, I think Stafford's pretty good, and I think we'd both agree with that. You know, it's funny, just to pick up on something you just said about

the roster, I really think that New England's defense is way better than people are giving it credit for. I think they have a lot of players, Colin. And again, I'm sure if you have and you'll do your top ten, you know, with your players on each team. But I think that New England on defense has better individual players than people think. They're just not household names. Right. You know, like I think Milton Williams is a really good player. Barmore is a really good player. You know, I think a Robert Spillane, you know, we're certainly not going to say he's Fred Warner, and I'm not suggesting he's on his way to the Hall of Fame, but he's a very, very good player who for years has been a three-down player.

He was that way in Pittsburgh at the end of his career. He was that way with the Raiders. These are good players, and they're very good schematically, and that's a big deal on defense. So, again, I'm not going to sit here and we're not going to go through the entire roster of each team. but I just think that New England on defense is better than people give them credit for. Listen, all year I didn't like the Rams special teams, but I also thought Carolina almost beat the Rams twice because of their secondary. So when I watched Darnold literally play a perfect game against the Rams, and I think the Patriot secondary is long and twitchy, Gonzalez, it's athletic. I don't think Darnold's going to have a perfect Sunday against New England.

Is part of Darnold's Sunday just, listen, it was a good matchup for Seattle. The Rams corners are kind of bottom third of the league. And I think that's fair, and it's funny you mention about New England because, you know, I mentioned their players. Their two safeties are totally unknown to people. Hawkins and the rookie Craig Woodson, they are really good players, and they're very interchangeable in the way they're deployed. But, yes, we've talked all year.

You know, one thing I've learned over the years watching tape, I'm never surprised when a team's weakness or lack of strength comes back to haunt them in a big game. That's right. So, you know, people can say, oh, wow, look what happened. But, you know, you're right about the Rams. I think that from a coverage standpoint, they're not great in the secondary, particularly at Corner. And I think it showed up a couple of times this year. Now, there are times when Matthew Stafford and the offense can compensate for that because they're really, really good.

And it wasn't as if Stafford and his offense didn't do well. They put up 27, I think it was 27, against a really good defense. So it was a very close game, and Stafford also played at a very high level. But you're right, Darno played a really, really good game. I thought that they had some really good concepts. Tactically, they did a really good job. We know that they had Smith and Jigma caught the touchdown where he was in the backfield, which I thought was a beautiful design.

You know, it's funny. Just to show you how crazy I am, Colin, when I saw the Smith and Jigba touchdown, the first thing that popped into my head was in 2016, Kyle Shanahan was the OC for the Atlanta Falcons, okay? And the first thing that popped into my head is they played a playoff game against Seattle, and they ran the exact same play in 2016, and I think we're looking at it right now, and it was a touchdown to Kevin Coleman. So, I mean, you know, none of these plays are brand new, but it was just, you know, just a great design, great call, and I think they did a really good job of that, and

Darnold executed. You know what I loved about Darnold in this game, too? Just pocket toughness. He had a number of throws under duress, and he stood and delivered without flinching. You know, it's interesting. Many are suggesting now that the two best receivers in the league may be Puka and J.S.N. And I'm not in any way comparing J.S.N to Jerry Rice. But I remember when Jerry Rice played, one of the things that always jumped out to me,

He had good speed, but he never slowed down into breaks, during breaks, after breaks. It was like the same speed. He just never paused when he caught the ball. And when I watched JSN, I see the same smoothness. I don't know if he's a 4-4 guy, 4-3-8. I don't know. But I know this. He is so smooth that he doesn't have to accelerate.

His whole route is acceleration. How is he so effective? Did they scheme him open? What is it? Well, it's always a combination. I mean, obviously you scheme players, you get them in positions where they can win. And when I say win, it's not always just one-on-one. Like the deep pass he caught at the end of the first half,

and here we're looking at the touchdown, obviously, when he was in the backfield. But the deep pass at the end of the first half was a beautifully designed play where they ended up getting covered two when he beat Curl. He beat his safety on a corner post. You'll take a wide receiver on his safety no matter who the wide receiver is. But there's obviously a smoothness to JSN. He's obviously very quick. I think he's deceptively fast.

I don't think he's a 4-4 guy the way we think of the burners. And, you know, a lot of that, too, is a function of the quarterback. You know, you mentioned Jerry Rice. How many times did we see Joe Montana just put it right where the ball is, basically one yard right out in front of him, and he never had to slow down. That run-after catch tends to be more a function of quarterbacks than receivers. It's where receiver, it's where quarterbacks place the football.

But JSN is obviously really good. Look, the receiver debate could go on forever. I mean, you know, different receivers have different skill sets. Just because these guys weren't in the playoffs and maybe didn't have their best years overall, you know, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase are pretty good. And I think most people would probably say that they're right there at the top of the discussion. But JSN is really, really good. All right, let's give me, let's give us our play of the week.

it includes Darnold and that big over-the-top throw. Yeah, now this was the first third down of the game, and that's why I wanted to show it, because this was a play that really set the tone. So we can take a look at it right now. This was the 51-yarder to Shahid. And it was third and five, I believe. It was the first third down of the game on the first possession.

And, you know, again, you never know if they anticipate a particular coverage, but they ended up getting a coverage that allowed Shahid to work one-on-one without help. So what you're going to see is Darnold's going to be in the gun. And what was interesting here, number one, they had Cam Acres in the game in the backfield. But you have acres as one of the offset players, and Kopp is in the back field here. So now you're going to see JSN reduced to the left side of the formation. By reduced, he's close to the formation. And then you've got Chehid and a plus split outside the numbers.

Now, what is Donald initially looking at? He's initially looking at a too high structure. Okay. And then you've got press on Chehid. Now, if you're going to press Shahid, again, you can debate whether you should do this if you don't have help over the top. Because ultimately, what you're going to get here is you're looking to see if your Donald does the safety, does he play over the top? And he's not going to play over the top. So what you're going to get is a vertical route by Shahid, who's got great speed.

And as this starts and plays, you're going to see the safety that we're talking about with his body presence and his eyes. It's all inside. So now what does Donald know? He knows he's got one of the fastest players in the league with terrifying speed against, I believe it was Darius Williams, and he's just going to run by him. And so it turned out that they got the perfect coverage, and it's third and five.

And again, like I said, people are probably debating why did the Rams do this? You can debate that forever, but the point is that was a great throw, and you can see it from here. You see the exact same thing. You're going to see the 101 on the outside, the safety inside, beautiful ball, an absolutely beautiful ball.

If you can hit this on your first series, Colin, you're feeling pretty good about the way the game's going to go because those are, I mean, that's not just a routine. I don't want to say it's a hard throw, but it's not a routine throw. Greg CoSell, NFL Films 46 years. Have yourself a great weekend, Greg. Thanks. Thanks, Colin. Appreciate it. You bet. Yeah.

He said it. New England's players are better than you. think. I just think what happens is that because New England was bad last year, there is a sense that, well, how good are their players? But they went and got, you know, Williams, the defensive tackle, very expensive guy. Barmore was getting better already. He was the Alabama D-Lyman. He's getting better. They got a couple years ago, they got the corner out of Oregon. When he's healthy, they don't lose. And they spent $250 million. They upgraded. the coach. Drake May has a real offensive coordinator that works. I think we look at New England.

We think you can't be bad one year and great. You can't in the NFL. You can't in the NBA. You only draft a couple of guys. And even if you get a star with a top six or seven pick, they're not changing outcomes. Wemby is still 40 games under 500 since he joined the Spurs. He's good, but he had minute restrictions. He was younger. I mean, I always say this about NBA rookies and second year guys. They can't even drink in the hotel bar. They're like 19, 20 years old. You're getting a fully developed body at 23 years old, sometimes 24 out of college.

So five or six of their rookies are contributing. They're good players they had, have developed. Drake May now has a great offensive coordinator, and they spent, you know, a quarter billion dollars on free agency or whatever it was. They got a good roster. There's no way you look at it. The only place on the Patriot roster I look at and think, That's kind of average is the O line.

And they're not terrible. They're just kind of average. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's Ben. Host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Mallor. It would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey.

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Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas, we invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, for people could call in and say, hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman helped make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself.

I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay.

Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on

earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer Gaines is we have real conversations about healing growth fathers pressure and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. Usually in every business,

you can look at recent history, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, what works and what doesn't work. Everybody, I think, gets that. Could be tech, could be the NFL, except the Cleveland Browns. So, I mean, literally, they had Mike McDaniel reportedly

they were interested in interviewing Mike McDaniel a former Dolphins coach. He said no thanks. I'll take the offensive coordinator job with Justin Herbert, Jim Harbaugh on the Chargers. Not interested in interviewing. Remember the owner, Jimmy Haslam. This was after firing Kevin Cefansky.

Let me say this. And some of you said this is a dysfunctional building. I take huge exception of that. Is there tension in the building? Of course. I mean, this is a hard business, and there's lots of stuff going on. If anybody says this is dysfunctional or those two of them did not work well, that's dead wrong. Oh, really?

Then they proceed in their coaching search, reportedly asking applicants to write an essay and take a personality test. I love Chick-fil-A. but if they asked me to do that and I was applying for a job, I'd withdraw. I mean, you've got to be kidding me. But it comes down to this. So there's two things that don't work very well when hiring a coach. Number one is, do not promote an assistant in your organization up the food chain to head coach. We gave you a list yesterday.

Brian Schottenheimer, Gerard Mayo, Antonio Pierce, Dennis, Allen, Doug Marone, Lovie Smith, Freddie Kitchens, Dirk Cutter, Ben McAdoo. Don't just go down the hallway and promote the popular assistant. It doesn't work. Todd Bowles has worked a little. It mostly doesn't work. Don't do that. So not promoting Jim Schwartz.

Okay. I'm okay with that because it doesn't work. The other thing that doesn't work except for Bruce Ariens is hiring a guy in his late 50s who's never been a head coach before. Bruce Ariens, the historic outlier, right? Especially in the last 20 years where coaches have gotten younger. So they hired Todd Monkin, who's 59. So you can go to Vic Fangio or David Cully or Bud Carson or, you know, there's, I mean,

I got five or six names here. It just doesn't work historically. And why doesn't it work with the old guys? because generally it could be comedy, it could be Hollywood writing, it could be tech. Generally, you can see elite very early. Most comedians, it could be John Stewart, Bill Maher, Dave Chappelle. You saw stuff in their late 20s. They were really good by 30-something.

So Mike Frable, head coach at 42 years old. Sean McVeigh, head coach at 30. Mike McDonald, Seattle, head coach at 36. Kyle Shanahan, head coach at 37. D'Amico Ryan's, head coach by 30 years. If you're 58, 59 years old and it's your first gig, it generally doesn't work or if you get promoted inside the building. So Jim Schwartz, historically, that probably wouldn't be a great hire. So I'll defend them on that because the data says that doesn't generally work.

But then to go get the older guy who'd never been a head coach before, that doesn't work either. So whenever I get this from fans, well, the NFL is rigged. No, you got bozos in the building. the NFL's not rigged. Cleveland's dysfunctional, despite what Jimmy Haslam says. They have the most dysfunctional search. And then the jets are dysfunctional. You all want to say stuff is rigged. That's just how to validate mediocrity. It's like people use the word luck. My sister's lucky. My brother-in-law is lucky. It has nothing to do with luck. You're trying to validate poor choices and mediocrity. I mean, the New York Giants have Super Bowls. They went and got the number one

coach in the cycle. The Atlanta Falcons have been to Super Bowls. They probably got the number two coach in the cycle. Jets. Have you seen what's happening with the Jets? They're getting rid of people. I mean, it, and this Cleveland thing, I'm sorry, it was dysfunctional. I don't know what you want to say. I think that's a totally reasonable word to use. J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. There's your daily dig at the Jets, courtesy of Colin Coward.

There's one a day, I like it. I feel like it's a nod to me, which I respect. All right, let's start with Ben Rothersberger and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Obviously, Mike McCarthy is the new head coach, but they apparently have no intent on rebuilding. Right. Well, former Steelers quarterback, Big Ben, went on first things first yesterday. And I don't know what he's saying here,

but this is a little crazy on rebuilding in Pittsburgh. Rebuild is like this big word in Pittsburgh. You don't use that word rebuild. Let's use a different word. Let's just call it. Let's start building. Teams, I think nowadays, they want to get a quarterback and then they want to build around that quarterback.

I think it should be the other way around. I think you should build a team to plug a quarterback into. Let's build this team up with a, again, I know Will Howard's sixth round. People are like, oh, what do you get in the sixth round? well, you get Tom Brady, you can get Brock Purdy, you can get some players. Why not give him a shot? Yeah, Big Ben, I love that he was on that show.

Big Ben makes a really interesting point, though. They don't like the word rebuild in Pittsburgh. They like the word build. And that is some of it where a lot of organizations kind of look at themselves, and they don't raise their hand, they don't shout it out. But a lot of corporations, you know, rebuild. Guys, we're going to use some capital to rebuild certain parts of our infrastructure. For whatever psychological reasons there are, or business reasons, Pittsburgh is, you know, what's ironic about this?

Before Chuck, you know how the Pittsburgh Steelers got Terry Bradshaw in the draft years ago, like 19, whatever it was, 69, 7? They were bad the year before. And by the way, how did they get Big Ben? They didn't have a very good year. Like, if you want to get Bradshaw or you want to get Big Ben, you can't be worried. worried about, you know, winning one game over 500. I mean, to get, people always say drafting quarterbacks is happenstance and luck. No, it's not.

Tom Brady, again, is an outlier. Dax's a bit of an outlier. By and large, if you want a great quarterback, it's usually in the top, 25 picks of the first round. That's just the reality of it. Yeah. It feels very safe space to me. Like, hey, we don't use the word rebuild. That's going to trigger some people.

like it's just really goofy. Nice fish tank though, Big Ben. I really, I love a good fish tank in the background. I love that. Let's be real. I did say Will Howard's name on this show. Remember earlier this? Yes, you did. I had Steelers fans on my mentions. Oh, come on.

No way. We're going to go get Kyler. We're going to do this, that. You watch. Will Howard is more than likely going to be there starting quarterback next season. And this is what's called a soft tank, Colin. Let's be real. Hey, let's see what we've got. Let's let some of these guys age out. We've got an old roster.

Let's take her thing. The Steelers have offensive talent. Friar Moose, an excellent tight end. D.K. Matt Caff. Jalen Warren, the O line, they put a lot of draft capital. If Will, no, I'm just saying, don't have an opinion before it. If Will Howard is your guy, then you need to give him 17 starts to figure out if he's your guy. But I don't want to hear if he struggles, we don't have any players. No, they do.

They've got an excellent interior O line. They've got a star number one. They need the number two receiver. They have a good back. they have a top tight end, they have two tight ends. Pittsburgh's offensive personnel with McCarthy is good enough. So if Will Howard is the guy, well, you've got to find that out before next year's draft because it's packed with quarterback.

I don't know if Will Howard is the guy. My guess is no. But what, if I'm, if you look at Pittsburgh's, now there are defensive talents old and expensive. There's a lot of, offensively, I think they're talents. better than people think off. It's not great. It's not the Rams, but there's some players there.

So, okay, we need context, because this is interesting. You like Friermouth and Warren, and you're calling D.K.A.1. The center's excellent. I mean, I'll give you the offensive line. I don't know a lot of number one wide receivers who go into the stands

and getting a fracas with fans in week 16. Like, that's buffoonery. He's not a one? D.K. Metcalf? I don't know. I remember Aaron Rogers was chirping about the wide receiver room. Guys don't know their routes, and he's getting guys.

benched and they're bringing in guys, I don't, I think this is a firm C on the skill position players. Average. Would you go higher than a C? Yeah. I think Friermouth is dependable. Washington's a great blocker. Jalen Warren's more than capable. I think they have

two guys on their interior O line who I think have elite capabilities. They're not awful at tackle. I mean, Aaron Rogers, if you go look at Aaron Rogers this year, go look at his numbers. I mean, the Steelers' offense was, again, it's not high power. They don't have a number two receiver.

When Metcalf got tossed for two games, they don't have anybody to throw to. They absolutely have to draft a receiver in the first three or four. They need a number two. But, I mean, the reality with Pittsburgh right now, I need to know if Will Howard can play. You're not getting that sitting behind Aaron. If Aaron comes back, I'm good with it,

but I can see McCarthy going, guys, let's figure out if this kid can play. Give me, I mean, this guy had a winning record with Cooper Rush. Mike McCarthy, I mean, go look at Malik Willis with Matt LaFleur, capable. Mike McCarthy, Cooper Rush, capable. I mean, McVeigh got Baker-Mayfield without a practice or one practice. So I think Pittsburgh, I don't love the hire, but Mike McCarthy is not every coaching hire is McVe. He's more than capable.

Yeah, no, I'm largely agree with that. Let's move on to the Dallas Cowboys, Colin. Boy, a lot of personnel decisions coming up this offseason on both sides of the ball. But on offense, specifically, George Pickens and Giovante Williams are soaking up a lot of the bandwidth online. Here's Stephen Jones talking about the team's desire to keep both guys long-term. Obviously, there's guys that we want to keep from last year, whether it's George Pickens, whether it's Giovante. Those are all guys that play into the free agency picture at the same time. Obviously, we've got work to do on the defensive side of the ball.

So between free agency, between the draft, you know, there's a lot of resources there that we can use to make our defense better. Yeah, those two first round picks, defense both of them. Corner, pass rusher, spend them on defense. The picket's long-term phrase kind of gives me a little pause, Colin. I think I actually He was playing Let's be real He was playing for a contract this year

He was a model citizen Put up huge stats I don't look at Dallas's receivers As a weakness I think they have a true number one Was it Fortnoy? Fortnoy I thought was more Flournoy

Flournoy My bad More than capable Their tight end is fine They've got I think I don't think Wide receiver Is a huge need

I think they're going to draft one But I don't look at Dallas And say man CD Lamb is an absolute number one one, Dax's a franchise quarterback. Their old line actually run blocks pretty well. It's young, pass block pro. Past pros, eh. But they have to get the defense better. So you would give Pickens a long-term deal as opposed to tag. I wouldn't. I don't get it. I mean, I think, I think when you give me, he came in with red flags into the NFL, Mike Tomlin, who's incredibly

player-friendly moved off him, and he pouted last year in Dallas. Like, people, will show you who they are, believe them, he's talented, and wide receivers the one position that college football furnishes the NFL with 15 guys a year that can play. We see it every year. I mean, Pooka Naku is a fifth rounder, walks into the league and you're like, stud. We didn't even think JSN was the best receiver at Ohio State. Walks into the league year two, you're like, is he the best player in the league? There's receivers are everywhere. Yeah. Final story, Colin, let's go back to the Hall of Fame, but focus on Eli Manning. is a big talking point because Colin, all signs point to him not getting in the Hall of Fame

for the second straight year. This should be no surprise to anybody. I mean, listen, anybody who wants to go to battle over Eli Manning, there is a lot of ammunition that he is not a Hall of Famer. I think you and I agree he is, Colin, I'm just going to point this out. Career MVP votes for Eli Manning, zero. He was never once an all-pro quarterback in the league. I don't want to hear Pro Bowls. Chador is a pro bowler. That is irrelevant. Are you ready for this? Eli Manning led the league in interception three times.

And his career NFL record with the Blue Blood Giants, 117 wins, 117 losses. Yeah. Okay. Words matter. Is it called the Hall of Stats? Hall of All-Pro? Hall of Pro Bowl.

It's called Hall of Fame. Part of Eli Manning. greatness. He didn't win two Super Bowls. He beat Brady twice. He beat the greatest coach twice. And he had two, one to Mario Manningham, one to David, Tyree. I would say two of the top six passes. I mean, was it Bradshaw to Lynn Swans, one of the great passes? Big Bend of San Antonio Holmes, I think, back of the end zones. Montana to Dwight Clark or something. I mean, there's the Brady to Edelman catches it in the crowd in Atlanta. There's been about seven catches in Super Bowl history that are memorable.

Eli had two. And again, it's not that he won two Super Bowls. He beat Brady and Belichick with the two great late game throws, arguably ever. He is a Hall of Famer. It is called Hall of Fame. You can't tell the story without him.

There's a lot of, I said this yesterday, there's a lot of different athleticisms. I grew up with Johnny Bench. He was the best catcher in baseball for, it felt like 15 years. When you watch Johnny Bass tried to get Johnny Bench hit a double at Riverfront Stadium at the time and try to get the second base. He didn't look like a great athlete.

But you have to be a great athlete to be in that gear in AstroTurf for 15 years and be the best catcher in a power hitting run driving and catcher. He's a hell of an athlete. But there are power athletes, there are twitchy athletes. There's guys in the NBA that have length and hand-eye coordination but don't have great hops. my take is Eli Manning, two minute drill, road games, big moments, toughness never miss starts, IQ EQ through the roof, pre-snap, great. So, interesting note. So, yes, he had two incredible iconic throws.

The guy played 16 seasons. Elon Manning played 16 seasons in the NFL and had two good postseason runs. and we basically are like, hey, he had that amazing throwing a David Tyree. Remember that? And the guy had a forgettable career. He just, let's be real. He was not a very good quarterback, except for two postseason runs. It's one of the trickier handicats.

I thought he was, I always loved him. I thought he was a great up-tempo quarterback, always healthy. Ask yourself this. When you leave a company and the company goes into the tank, does that not speak well of you? How's Michigan football since Jim Harbaugh left? How are the New York Giants since Eli Ler, left, hazmat spill. How are the giants since Eli left?

Unwatchable. I mean, we can talk Brady leave in New England, even with Belichick. I mean, the minute he walked out of that building, you're like, the maturity of the organization, the intelligence of the organization, never the same. And that's my, I don't know, I watched a lot of Eli. I was living out east. I saw every guy came. I mean, again, I think we agree. He'll probably get in, but this idea that he's like a slam dunk is a little crazy.

No, no, no, he's not a first ballot, but again, would you rather have Philip Rivers' career, which was much better in the regular season, but postseason success escapes him or Eli? And to me, it's not even close. I would take Eli. Okay, Russell Wilson or Eli? Kurt Warner or Eli? Closer. Kurt Warner was pretty good. Yeah, Kurt Warner was pretty good.

Kurt Warner was pretty good. Yeah. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lye News. Live in Chicago, it's The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there.

But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes.

I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the René.

Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down at three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface.

Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your courtside seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we. have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

The Great American Race returns with back-to-back champion, William Byron, looking for a historic three-peak. It doesn't get any bigger than this. The 68th running of the Daytona 500, February 15th, only on Fox. Earlier in this show, I had said coaches should probably not talk about players like Sean Peyton and Bo Nicks's surgeries. First of all, players probably are sensitive to that. NFL careers, even for quarterbacks, are usually kind of short, longer for quarterbacks. But Bo Nix got a little testy that Peyton Manning had talked about his injury. Bo Nicks said it's fine.

And I said, I think players get far more surgeries than most of us know. A prime example is video today in Buffalo. oh, there's Josh Allen on crutches. So this is an eight to ten week process. He'll be back. He'll be fine. He showed up on crutches. He had a broken foot.

So there's Josh Allen today. I think these guys, I mean, if you've ever stood on the sidelines of an NFL game, it's remarkable guys aren't getting a surgery every six weeks. The hits that these guys go through. I mean, I'm not kidding you. People think pro wrestling. That is somewhat. kind of sort of you know we all know that pro wrestling they bounce off the mat and those guys are a wreck

after 10 years of doing that try getting tackled by NFL guys uh Joe Brady the new coach the current offensive coordinator now the top guy had a presser he is the leader of this organization and the weight that he has on his shoulders is something that I can't even imagine um everything thing I think about is trying to find ways to put him in a position to have success because that's all I care about with him. Josh Allen is the best player in the NFL and I have to grow, right? And part of me growing is that that's going to allow him to be a better version of himself. And I'm so excited to be able to continue this journey with him. I have so much love for that man right there. And all I want is him to get everything that he deserves. And that's what that's all

I do for. Now, the record is when you, we showed you the list earlier, there's, There's two things that can get you in trouble when you hire a head coach. One of them is just elevating the guy in the organization that's considered the top assistant. The history is not great on that. But now, is there advantages? Buffalo has stability, new stadium, new revenue. They have Josh Allen. They've got their left tackle.

They've got excellent tight ends. A very good slot receipt. I mean, they've got some nice offensive pieces. So I think they'll be fine. I think this is a situation where what's Josh Allen comfortable with? I think it's mostly a well-run organization. You know, their GM's got a couple times been a tad thin skinned, whatever. But I think it's well-run.

But, you know, usually elevating the hot assistant, we've talked about this, it doesn't work. You know, the greater the coach that leaves in McDermott was pretty darn good, the wider the search usually needs to be. Second thing is be careful about doing what Cleveland did. Todd Monkin, a guy in his late 50s who's never been a head coach. Now, it worked in Arizona. Steve Kime, my buddy, hired Bruce Ariens, highly respected. They got him, I think they got him Carson Palmer, not long after that,

and things worked out pretty well. That's an outlier. Tom Brady getting drafted in round six, that's an outlier. Most great quarterbacks. I mean, Donald's a first rounder. Drake May is a first rounder. people always say, oh, you never know where you get quarterbacks. Yeah, you do.

Top 20 picks, where you get him, first round. Yeah, Drew Brees, top of the second round. Jalen Hurts, second round. Brock Purdy's an outlier. But Josh Allen said today, if I was playing next week, I'd find a way to play. I swear to you. So they'll be fine. All right.

Ian O'Connor's coming up. He had that article in the athletic about SpyGate was the reason why a handful of sports writers said, Bill's got to wait. Lombardi had the wait. Bill Walsh had the wait. Joe Gibbs had the wait. Parcells had the wait. A couple of Spygate dings. Belichick has to wait. Our three. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam, it's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was part of it. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marc keep coming to you. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Therapy is fantastic. But once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lulmex create a space where black. women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving

individuals. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.