The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - Tom Brady's future

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

7-time Super Bowl Champion Tom Brady joins the show to talk about his retirement decision and when he'll begin broadcasting for Fox SportsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Here we go, live in Los Angeles. It's the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening. Iheart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1. I've never interviewed Tom Brady live on television before. Been at an event or two he's been at. They're called Super Bowls, Playoff games. I've interviewed a couple of presidents.

Once had Obama on twice, had Trump on once pre-president. So this would be kind of cool. Tom Brady will come on. You know, I heard some, you know how from time to time you used to run the big lead and you were a journalist trade and you still do that stuff? You're texting all the time and doing stuff. You know how you hear stuff? Rumors and stuff. And a lot of what the information I get, I don't pass on to you because I can't get it verified.

And so this just comes, this is something that was brought up three weeks ago to me. two weeks ago to me. It's not a story or a report, but it was floated to me is that somebody in the NFL said, what if Andy Reid retires if the chiefs win? So Andy's like mid-60s, and I thought, why? He's so vibrant. He loves coaching. And he said, and so I'm like, is that going to happen? And this person said, oh, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but, you know, I heard it from somebody. Maybe and I thought, I got to ask, I didn't ask Andy the last time I had him on, because I didn't think at the time that was appropriate. But, you know, we always, we always think about how great Patrick Mahomes is, and he is. Let me tell you something. If Andy Reid just decided, they win the Super Bowl,

he's like, I'm going off to the sunset. 99% he won't. Who'd you replace him with? Sean Payton's off the market. You're not, I don't think Jim Harbaal works for this organization. who's the candidate. I mean, so I'm not saying the Kansas City story is obviously led by Mahomes. I'm not disputing that. But don't kid yourself in this combo deal. Andy Reid is substantial. Andy Reid got to, I don't know how many NFC championships with Donovan McNabb and kind of

not all-time great quarterbacks. Then he takes the two or the three-win chiefs. They went 11 the next year. I think he's made the playoffs like eight or nine out of ten years in Kansas. the city. Don't kid yourself. Lincoln Riley's not coming right now. We saw Matt Rule fizzle out. You could go to that Kafka,

maybe Eric B. N. I'm kind of a drop off. So when I heard this, it wasn't like a news story, but it was somebody saying, I mean, what if? And I was like, there's not a lot of candidates. I mean, Andy has separated.

Now the rules lean offense. Andy is separated from most of this league. I mean, he kind of at a, we always knew for years and years, Belichick was the best coach, and Andy was in a strong competition for second. In fact, he'd give Bill a lot of trouble. Now Andy's the best coach in the league. Bill's not second. So, so the point being is, this is a great Mahomes story. It's also an Andy Reid story. This guy's the best coach in league history off a buy. He gets all quarterbacks to the playoffs. He got multiple quarterbacks to the NFC championship.

I mean, I think Donovan was mostly it. Maybe Donovan was all of them. But this Andy Reid thing is we are looking at, in my lifetime, there's been five or six coaches that just felt different. Belichick's one. Bill Walsh was one. And he's one. Probably promote from within, right?

Keep the continuity going. I would think. Yeah. But just think of all the years of Andy Reid, the institutional knowledge in his head offensively. But the enemy's bit with him. No, I get it. No, I get it.

But proximity to greatness does not equal greatness. That's true. A lot of backup quarterbacks aren't great quarterbacks. They can be around Brady for 10 years. So just because you're around something doesn't mean you can make, when you're making the calls, I mean, just think how many decisions you make in a day. I mean, like semi-big six to 12, a week that's 70, a month that's 280. What's that a year?

That's three, three-fit, whatever that is a year. Big decisions. You start making a few of those wrong. every day, things go sideways fast. So play calling, schematic game plans, meeting room discussions. It's not easy. This stuff is tough. And so I think for years and years, I think Andy Reid's one of the seminal coaches of my lifetime. You know, there was Chuck Knoll in the 70s. I mean, that was understood. Lombardi, then Chuck Knoll. And then we had a bunch of really, really good ones. And then it's for me anyway, I've taught my head, Bill Walsh feels like. Now, Don Corrielle with the

Chargers was great, but he wasn't one in championships. Then there's Bill Walsh, and everybody's copying Bill Walsh. And then there's Andy Reid. Now you see all the Andy Reed tree guys. So I do think Sean McVeigh has done this as well, where Sean's guys like Zach Taylor, the kid in Minnesota, Sean has this ability. He's a teacher. People steal bits and pieces from Sean. They leave and they win. So, but Andy is, I mean, when I talked to, I had Michael Vick on this, any time I ask, Shady McCoy was on the show the other day. Michael Vic, anytime I ask anybody who's ever been, I think Mark Sanchez was at some point in Philly,

you ask him about Andy Reid. It is literally different. If he left after the Super Bowl, I mean, you're going from a coordinator to to the best coach in the league. Not all vice presidents are made to be presidents. You'd think it would be linear. It would be, well, I watch this guy,

and then I can go in. It's like, it doesn't work that. way. My whole life, it does not work that way. And you remember Mahomes and Biennamy got into it in Indy this year at the end of the half? I remember that. It was unhappy. Beenemy playing it's safe. Well, the other thing is, you know, this Super Bowl, I was asked, I was in Portland yesterday, and I was asked about Super Bowl. And I said, I really feel like it's a fight. Like, I like going to fights. And sometimes you have a feeling for a fight, but I went to a Pacchio fight a couple years ago. And it was Thurman. He fought Thurman. I knew after the first round, I'm like, oh, I have

wildly misjudged this fight. Stiles make fights, and Pachia was going to win this fight. He was going to win this fight. You could tell very early. I would love to watch two series in the Super Bowl. I'd have a much greater sense. I think if Philadelphia can run the ball, Kansas City could be in trouble. If Philadelphia can Miles Sanders, Jalen hurt some RPO stuff, if they're moving the football, can keep it away from Mahomes, push the defensive front of Kansas City around. I think the Chiefs are in trouble. I think Kansas City knows that. Spags has been around this league forever. I think Philadelphia says, we want to make Jalen Hertz throw, because I like Jalen Hertz, but he did not throw the ball well. He's clearly still hurt.

He did not throw the ball well in that game against San Francisco. So, you know, you're looking at that film and you're like, just make him throw. He'll be nervous. It's a big game. We'll get a semi-decent pass rush. That to me is a very obvious game. What you don't want to do if you're Kansas City is if Philadelphia can run the ball, they keep Mahomes off the field. That means your uneven time of possession. Philadelphia is dominating it. Then that game gets really murky.

Kansas City can play it from in front or behind. Philly's more built to play with a lead and they usually get it. But I know I can see what both teams want to do. I just don't know how it's going to land. Philadelphia wants to run the ball and play keepaway. And that gives them great play action opportunities against the young Kansas City secondary. That's what they want to do.

What Kansas City wants to do is win that coin toss, get that lead, be aggressive, force Jalen Hertz to throw the ball. Now, some of that will come down to one of the chief's corners in concussion protocol, Sneed. That's not great news because now you're relying on Trent McDuffie, a very, very talented rookie corner against an A.J. Brown, that's problematic. Yeah, you're going to have to get a defensive help over the top from a safety. And we know Casey likes to play with the nickel and dime packages.

That invites a lot of running from the Eagles. Eagles ran 44 times, Colin, and their two playoff games. But that's with the lead against inferior teams. I don't know if that's going to be the case. All right. Chase in Kansas City. All right. I'm told Brady, we're going to break.

Tom is going to be joining us, I guess from Florida after the break. Be sure to catch live editions of the Hurstead. weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Well, he played for 23 NFL seasons. Seven-time Super Bowl champ, passed for almost 90,000 yards. Tom Brady's going to join us live right now. The reason I know Tom's the greatest quarterback ever isn't all those stats. Here's how I know you're the greatest quarterback ever, because Mike Vrable is the size of a minivan, and you threw 10 touchdown passes to a linebacker. So when I saw that the other day, I went, Mike Vrable owes you a steak and a beer. You put him on the map, Tom.

That's how I know you're the greatest. You don't need to blow his head up any more than it already is. He's had, first of all, he went to Ohio State, so he already feels really good about himself there. And the fact that you bring that up, he still tries to run tight-end routes in the end. He was actually really good at it. He was very twitchy, had a really good explosiveness, and just how he got to the quarterback so well, he found his way to the back of the end zone quite a few times. So I love being his teammate.

Yeah, he's a great coach as well. So I was a little surprised. When you get emotional, I've watched you two or three times in your career get emotional. I get emotional watching you get emotional. And, you know, you talked about your dad or your kid. So on the beach, it was authentic. It was real. You're emotional.

I'm like, yeah, Tom's done. but I was surprised a little about the cynicism on the internet. He's coming back. So I just got to put it out there, right? Is there 1% chance you can get talk back into playing? I think for me, you know, I know in my heart how I feel. And, you know, I put it out on the field for 23 years. And I'm super proud of, you know, what's been accomplished.

And, you know, I just wanted to keep last week really short and sweet. And I felt like I've given a lot. I've gained a lot. I've learned a lot. And, you know, life is about, you know, exciting things ahead, too. So I think when one thing closes like football has for me for, you know, 32 years of my life. And, you know, I look forward to what's ahead. There's new chapters and there's new exciting things and there's new growth. There's new opportunities. And I'm really excited for what's ahead. So, you know, I've loved my time of football. It's absolutely an incredible love in my life. And it's hard to make decisions like that. it's certainly the right time. Tom, you set two NFL records in your final year, so you can still play.

You'll be able to spin that football in 10 years. I don't care if you're in a winery and a beach, you'll be able to spin it. That's not the issue. The issue is at some point you were either with your kids in a car by yourself, and you made this decision. If I could be nosy here, when was the moment, where were you when you made the decision? I think the finality of it was last, just, you know, last week. So, you know, you always kind of, I think the future is very hard to predict for all of us. I mean, nothing's really guaranteed. But I think you just take it day by day.

And, you know, as my friend always tells me, the future happens a day at a time. And, but I'm super excited. I really am. I think there's a lot of great things ahead. And I think you need to create space for those things, too. And, you know, when one thing ends, naturally other opportunities present themselves. And, you know, I don't try to make predictions. And sometimes I'm really good with certainty.

And I think in this case, I'm good with a little bit of uncertainty, even though I have some great opportunities in my professional life ahead. And I'm really excited about those things. You know, at the same time, you've got to create space for those things as well. So I want to talk about that. You gave to the game emotionally and physically. I mean, I read stories. You didn't drink a beer during the season.

I'm like, man, I think I'm committed. That's next level stuff. I like a pint down there, Tommy. I've got to be honest with you. So my wife's from Michigan. You're a Michigan guy. They like their pints too. I know that.

So I got to ask you, is there a thought in your head that, man, I gave a lot. I need to exhale. I got to give this thing some space here. Is that like time? I'm talking 15 months. I'm talking 18 months.

Yeah. I think for me, absolutely. And even, you know, decompression is important. You know, you're on this kind of really crazy treadmill slash hamster wheel for a long time. Loving the moment, loving the journey. And at the same time, you know, there's a, there's a, it's a daily fight, you know, you wake up every day, just like you do. And I have appreciation for so many people that are so committed every day to showing up to put their max effort into their life and their career. And I think for me, I want to be great at what I do. And even, you know, talking even last week with the people at Fox Sports, you know, and the leadership there allowing me to start, you know, my Fox opportunity in the fall of 2024 is something that's

great for me. So take some time to really learn, become great at what I want to do, become great at, you know, thinking about the opportunity and making sure I don't rush into anything. And I, I think when people really bet on me, I think one thing about my career, whether I was when I was drafted by the Patriots or signing free to see with the Bucks, I wanted to be, you know, fully committed and I never wanted to let people down. I think my biggest motivator was that. So, you know, even in the future, I want to be great at what I do. And that always takes some time and strategizing and learning and growing and evolving.

And I have so many people to rely on that can support me and that growth too. So it's going to be a great opportunity for me to take some time to really certainly become at my Fox broadcasting job, which I'm really looking forward to, but also catching up on other parts of my life that need some time in So you're not a rear-view mirror guy, but when I look at the Tampa experience, I've watched my entire career, 30 years, Tom, NBA NFL baseball, guys move, stars, and it doesn't work. In fact, it doesn't work about 70% of the time. In that first year in Tampa, did you have a moment where you thought, oh, crap, this is hard. Was there ever a moment that you thought, Maybe it was Thursday against the Bears that you thought it wasn't going to work. That was hard. That was this one. I, uh, it was.

And you know what it should be hard because let me tell you the NFL's hard and the competitive nature of sports is hard. And there's nothing that you're going to experience in life that is worth attending. That's not hard and has its challenges. And I think what we accomplished in Tampa when I was there was amazing part of my football journey. And I couldn't have done it without. the people there that were fully embracing of what I brought. And I think that's why I chose that, from the glazers to Jason Light, to the coaches and NBA and all my teammates, you know, they welcome me with open arms. And I think that was, that's part of, you know, I think if you

really want to get to me, appeal to my heart and say, we trust you, Tom. We, you know, come in and do what you do. And I think you're going to get the best version of me when you do that. Because, again, there's a naturally part of me that's very, you know, self-motivated to always prove myself to myself that I don't want to let people down, but also to prove to them, hey, you bet on the right person. And, you know, you've got to wake up out of day and I kind of jump out of bed. Okay, what do I got to accomplish today? And I love doing that for people that believe in me. So Tampa was that experience. The Patriots were obviously that experience for me for a long period of time. And I had an amazing football journey. And now it's time to be great at other things.

you were doubted early i can't tell you how many times i take a phone call a system quarterback i'm like he is the system he's not a so you were doubted early and you were championed late what was more fun the goat or the journey oh so i always deal with people that doubt me better um in a sense that the competition you know i love when they give me a little more fuel for the fire not that i need it but it just It draws a little, and I think there's a good emotion in sport, too, which anger. And you've seen some of the great players that I always looked up to, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Kobe Bryant, Jerry West. There's an anger when you play that is a really motivating factor, too, because it sparks an action. You know, anger motivates you to, you know, wake up sometimes and you dig deep.

And I love digging deep because I learn a lot about myself. And I think when we dig deep and people push. us further than places we want to go, you know, we can reach places that no people have ever been. And, you know, my football crew is just that. And again, I think now and I look back, there's a lot of reasons why. There's a lot of, from the day that I started, the Patriots, you know, through my last game, there was a lot of lessons I learned along the way. And a lot of people I got to experience life with. And the journeys of life, which have set up me, hopefully, with, you know, and again, not that anything's promised, but a lot of great years ahead. And I'm looking forward to it. And there's

lot of great things to accomplish with a lot of great people. And certainly me spending time with my family and giving them all that I can do in the meantime before I, you know, leap back into something else is a great opportunity for me to connect with, you know, things that are really my priority. So there's a lot of great things ahead. And obviously moving to the media side like you have, you done an amazing job. And I can learn from everyone out there. So I just thank you and all the other people out there who have been so great to me and supportive in my journey. I really appreciate it. You know, Tom, you, the Tom versus Time, the young man who put that together is a friend, and I thought it was fascinating. Because, you know, by and large, we don't get that look, right?

Or if we do, the player's already retired, like Michael Jordan's doc. I got a doc with you and you're playing and you're on that film. And this is going to sound goofy. But you were always looking at others. Have you ever just sat down? You can turn on the Fox of the NFL Network. one of your games on or have you looked at film? Have you ever watched film of you? And what do you interpret? What do you see when you watch you?

Wow, I think the torture of that is, I think I see all the flaws, to be honest, I don't see like, I probably look at a lot of other people going, wow, look at how amazing they are and how incredible they performed under pressure. And, you know, I think for me, from my own perspective, I don't see myself that way. I see, God, what could I have done before? Oh, that throw sucks. Oh, that was the wrong read. Oh, why did I call that play? Oh, you know. And I think that's the agonizing part about being an athlete. And I think that's part of why you continue to reach and dig deep because you only see the flaws and you want to make those flaws better. And you realize that you're never finished products. And you want to improve and you want to learn. You meet people and you grow from

those experiences. So I don't know how many perfect broadcasts you perform, but there's probably not many perfect games I've performed. Very few over the course of probably almost 400. And, you know, I always strive to be a little bit better. And people around me push me to be the best I could be. And I think so much of that enjoyment and fulfillment is in the journey of that experience and not necessarily, oh, I got there that one time, where I got there 10 times. You know, it's the pursuit of that, the practice, the meetings, all those things are really what I enjoyed on this journey, not just the outcome of a game. I can assure you I have never had a perfect broadcast. You can ask my audience, Tom. I've never had, I'm not sure I've had a perfect

segment depending on who you ask. Yeah. I can't wait for you to be part of us. I know you're very, very busy. And I just appreciate you giving us 10, 15 minutes today. Thank you so much. Yeah, happy to do it. And have a great Super Bowl week. Enjoy it. And, you know, it's a great week of in American sports and the C these two teams go out of it. I'll be super excited. So I wish I was playing. We didn't get there this year, unfortunately, but the teams that did there deserved it. And to see Patrick and Jalen lead their teams is amazing. It'll be a fun week for the Super one. Love it out of some Fox too. And Greg and Kevin calling it. So I'll be watching probably more 50% watching the game and 50% listening to those two and hearing the amazing job that they're

going to do along with the whole Fox sports crew. All right. Thanks, Tommy. Cool. Bye, Colin. Take care. All right, bye. All right, Tom Brady. A little live from, I think he's in New York today hanging, chilling with fam. So there you go. Exciting times. He looks good. I've got to be honest with you. You don't want to appear on a screen with Tom Brady very many times in your life. It just, he doesn't. He looks good. He's put together. All right, here we go. J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line. News. You know, I had the fortune of interviewing Brady once way back in the day. I was working at a celebrity magazine and they said, hey, Jason, there's this Victoria Secret Party. This is in New York

City. Can you go and interview Tom Brady? I was like, yeah. But he had only won one Super Bowl at the time. Just walk right up to him in the room, started talking to him. And then the interview got interrupted by a Victoria's Secret model. And he was like, hey, we'll talk later. Okay, that was fun. It's interesting. Whenever I meet athletes from team sports early in their career. So I was around Patrick Mahomes at a UFC fight about two years ago. And Patrick had already, I think, I think had won the Super Bowl. Yeah, he'd won the Super Bowl. People were very respectful. Gave him a lot of space. In my life of athletes, when you run into individual athletes, tennis player, boxer, anybody that's individual, they are mobbed by people. And so I don't know if it's

the difference between a band and, you know, Elvis and his prime or something, or Taylor Swift. But I always am struck by when I see these great team athletes, it's different. But when you see an individual star, I mean, I can remember being around Mike Tyson in his prime. He couldn't go anywhere. Now, now, now, Michael Jordan's different. I mean, he cuts through. But it's, it is interesting. I've seen LeBron's quotes this week about he wishes he could just go to a more.

movie theater and go get popcorn. Oh, I didn't see this. I've seen him eating in Brentwood before. He didn't get bothered. Interesting. Maybe people didn't notice him. I mean, LA's a little different. I don't think he, I don't know.

Maybe he's hounded. Movie theater's different, but I've seen him in restaurants twice. People leave him alone. Oh, that's nice. People are friendly. All right, let's get to the Pro Bowl, Colin. We didn't spend a lot of time on it. Some people may not have known it even happened.

Mack Jones made the Pro Bowl in his rookie season. It took a little bit of a dip in his set. In the second year, you know, they didn't have the offensive coordinator in New England. In 2023, he'll be working with Bill O'Brien and Patriots linebacker Matt Judon has total faith in Mac Jones bouncing back. I think we got a great deal of confidence in Mac, and we're going to see because we know what type of player he can be. We saw it at the collegiate level, high school level.

We saw it at the pro level. And so that's what we need. He knows that. We're going to be backing him just as long as he's our quarterback. I don't plan that he's going anywhere anytime soon. By the way, I just realized I called Tom Brady Tommy. I don't know why that popped into my head. Secondly, talking about Patriots.

Secondly, we tend to because we love football, get very emotional about it. And people are all selling their stock on Mac Jones. As you often talk about on this show, wherever the public's going, go the opposite direction. Mac Jones is going to have a really good year. Really? Yes, he has a functional offensive coordinator. Does he have a functional weapon on the outside? Well, again, they have two young receivers they like. They'll draft another.

I think people are surprised. Our radio audience can't see these, and I don't want to run through all the numbers. People, for a rookie quarterback, without a star receiver, when you go look at Mack Jones' initial, this is with a defensive coach in an improving division with no number one receiver and okay tight ends. he completed 67% of his throws, 92 and a half passer rating for almost 4,000 yards. He was exceptional as a rookie. Mack was very, very good. It doesn't tell the full story, though. This is just like, oh, look it for the course of the season, he played well.

But then you start drilling down and looking at specific games. And, you know, he threw three touchdowns against Jacksonville, who was the worst team in the league last year. They're on the schedule. some of the numbers. Like, what did he do against winning teams against Buffalo as a rookie? Zero touchdowns, two picks in the first game. In the other game, zero touchdowns, zero interceptions. That was like the wind game. Right. So he didn't play against the best team in the division as a rookie very well. I'm comfortable with that. I'm going to need some more time on this, but I think we fully disagree that I do nothing.

Mac Jones is bouncing back. We'll just go easy one. Is he a top seven quarterback in the AFC? Okay, that's a different discussion. In the AFC, I'm just saying. There's only, what, 16 teams of the AFC? Okay, okay, okay. All right. Time out. Can I grab my pen?

I get no time. Okay. Mahomes. Mahomes. Burrow. Burrow. Allen. Alan.

Lamar. Herbert. It's five. Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence is six. Did you say Joe Burrow? Yeah. So I'm at six.

He's not that. Can he buy for seven? Am I wrong? Deshawn Watson? I take, oh, wait a minute, come on. I don't think you can take that much time off. He was inaccurate. Oh, I'm sorry, Russell Wilson.

Well, we don't know, Russell. We got to see how that thing works. So we got one season of Mac's being good. We have six guys in the AFC that are absolutely better. Can Mac with a functional veteran offensive coordinator put up comparable numbers to Russell Wilson? Yes, absolutely. Russell Wilson just got Sean Payton. your guy.

Bill O'Brien's a veteran. Bill O'Brien won his division in Houston with bad quarterbacks for like, Bill O'Brien, it did the rare thing in the NFL. One of division with C-minus quarterbacks. Virtually impossible in this league. Bill O'Brien won post-Paterno at Penn State. Way tougher than people. So you can buy one of these three stocks next year.

You can buy Russell Wilson. You can buy Mack Jones. Who's the other guy? Or Deshawn Watson. Which of those stocks are you buying? You mean the three again? Mac Jones, Deshawn or who? Russell Wilson.

If you say Mac Jones, Calder. It's not Deshawn. I don't trust the organization. It's not Deshawn Watson. So it's down to Russell or Mac Jones. And you're just telling me numbers. It's not just numbers. Mac Jones.

Mac Jones. I know the internet watches all this stuff and the numbers are big today because Tom Brady. Somebody remember he's taking Mac Jones over Russell Wilson. Over the course of 17 games? I don't think there's anything to fix with Mac Jones. I think you just have to get him

you know, an offensive coordinator. Aren't you looking back at his rookie numbers? Be honest about this. Don't you look at those and they're better than you think? They were good. They were good. They were like Matt Ryan career good as a kid. Those are good numbers.

With no number one receiver. Those are really good numbers. Solidly above average numbers. All right, next up. Mar Jackson and the Ravens are still working out a new contract. there appears to be a huge difference in the money what each side wants. Colin, this is staggering. The two are reportedly as much as $100 million apart in their negotiations.

Trade talks are set to be coming, but many teams believe Lamar will be tagged so the process has not started to heat up. Now, will he be mad if he's tagged? The quarterbacks don't like that. You're going to make like $44 million. I think Breer said 44 mil is the exclusive franchise tag. That's a lot of money. He's a lot of money for one year. You know, well, there's a reason players agreed to it.

It's a lot of money for one year. Yeah. Well, again, he could agree to a deal. But the problem, the thing I hate about the franchise tag is they could tag you twice, right? Kirk Cousins had that. I don't like that. I don't like that at all. No, I like, an organization should be allowed to tag you once.

The players caved and gave it twice. I don't like that at all. So $100 million apart in negotiations. Now the question becomes, is another team, even if he's tagged? Is another team, do you think willing to close that deal? gap of $100 million. There's a lot of desperate teens out there. What if Baltimore just said, we'll swap Lamar Jackson and Tua?

Lamar goes to the dolphins, and the Ravens get Tua and some picks. Some picks? You don't need a lot more than some picks. I'm an MVP versus a guy who can't say healthy. Well, Baltimore drafts well. For the record, they draft and develop very well top of the 10 in the league. I think you're a little, you need to clear your head. Tom Brady interview has you rattled.

I mean, Tua and Lamar, a trade? And then Mac Jones over Russell Wilson? Coward. Really? That's the new me. Talking to Brady. I see that twinkle you had in your eye talking to him.

A little excited. All right, final story. Kyrie Irving got his trade wish. Now he's a member of the Dallas Mavericks. Plenty of other teams made offers. Allegedly the Sons who were reported willing to include Chris Paul in their trade package.

Everybody wants a 37-year-old point card. Sons are also prepared to pursue Kevin Durant before the trade deadline if the Nets make him available. Now, this KD thing is fascinating. Because he's still got three years left, Colin. What's he sticking around for? And his value's only going to go down as he gets older.

That's true. He's 35. Shouldn't the Nets just say, hey, fire sale. We're not beating with KD, Doreen, Finney Smith, and companies. We're not beating the Bucks or the Celtics. What are we doing? Let's trade Kevin Durant. I think the Nets believed this morning.

And there's analytics to prove this true that actually the Nets were better when Katie was on the floor and Kyrie wasn't slightly. I think there's people in the building in Brooklyn that absolutely believe, and they may be right, that Spencer Dinwiddie, Finney Smith, Kevin Durant, Nick Claxton, Joe Harris, all these guys. They're better as a team, as a collective than the Kyrie team. So I don't think Brooklyn, I think Brooklyn thinks we're going to be a better basketball team.

Now, I believe with Kyrie, they did go, I think, 18 and 3 in December. Some ridiculous. They were on a tear, and they got back in the Eastern Conference. But there's some analytic numbers I heard over the weekend that Katie and Kyrie on the floor and Katie and not Kyrie on the floor. They actually were slightly better. The Nets are not a contender with just Kevin Durant. They're not a contender for anything, right? We would agree on that.

Well, I will say this. There'll be a better defensive team now, and they were already top five or six in the east. so they'll be a better defensive team. You and I both know the two teams that ended up in the finals last year were the number one and two defensive teams. I know everybody loves Luca and those guys and Kyrie. They'll play no defense. And so I think Brooklyn says we're a better defensive team.

I mean, Kyrie is a defensive liability. We're a better defensive team. And we got a couple of B players. But, you know, didn't what he liked when he was Brooklyn played very, very well? I like him as a sixth man. Very good player. And Finney Smith is the perfect wing to defend, you know, I don't think Brooklyn thinks we're a playoff team and slightly better today than we were.

You know this, Colin. You don't want to be in the middle. You want to be at the top or you want to be at the bottom? You don't want to be in the dreaded middle. You're just on that hamster wheel getting the sixth seed and losing in the second round. Like, there's no win there. Well, if I own a team, I don't want to be at the bottom necessarily very long. So you trade Kevin Durant. You'll never get Kevin Durant back in value. There is no other Kevin Durant. You're not getting that.

This is the last time you have a guy as good as Kevin Durant maybe in the history of the franchise. I don't know if I want to give him up. If I give him up, I better get a lot of guarantees. Rudy Gobert. That's a bad deal. That's not a good. Don't use that as a deal that should be followed. J-Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app. Hey, what's up everybody? It's me, three-time Pro Bowl.

LeVar Arrington and I couldn't be more excited to announce a new podcast called Up on Game. What is Up on Game, you ask? Along with my fellow Pro Bowler, T.J. Hushman Zata and Super Bowl champion. Yep, that's right. Plexico Burris. You can only name a show with that type of talent on it. Up on Game. We're going to be sharing our real life experiences loaded with teachable moments.

Listen to Up on Game with me, LaVar Arrington, T.J. Hushman Zada and Plexic Burris on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast from. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble. stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app,

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Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

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Catch it all this week. Right here on the herd. I see a lot of those other sets out there. Nothing compared to ours. So I was thinking about this, Luca and Kyrie is that offense matters more in basketball than defense. In football, offense also means more than defense,

but situationally, you have to be competent defensively. So in the NBA, Luca Kyrie will be fun to watch. They'll score a lot of points. I don't deny any of it. But let's not forget the two teams that ended up in the finals last year, the Celtics had the number one rated defense all year, and the Warriors, when Draymond played, had the best defense since the Tim Duncan era. I believe that was the stat during the regular season.

So it was basically the two best defensive teams in the NBA made the finals. Boston's a really good offensive team, but there's better offensive teams. So this idea, Luca and Kyrie are not a championship team. Now, in the West, I think they can make some, hey, If they were in the east together, they wouldn't beat Boston. They would not beat Milwaukee. I do not think they'd beat Philadelphia. And I don't know if they beat Cleveland.

I don't think they'd beat Cleveland. Cleveland plays real defense. Those four teams, they wouldn't beat. But in the West, the Clippers play really good defense. Golden State formally did. They're not this year. And I think a lot of that with the Warriors is they aren't playing a lot of players. They play about seven guys, seven, seven and a half guys.

They don't play Cominga very much. They don't play Moody at all. Wiseman's not working. So I think they'll score a bunch of points. And they'll be dynamic. And part of what I like about this selfishly is I can't wait to watch it. I was just done watching Brooklyn. I thought Brooklyn was uninteresting. Simmons is odd. Kyrie, when he's available, is talented. But I just, it wasn't a lot of there there for me. Durant was hurt or Kyrie was hurt and Simmons can't shoot and Hardin wasn't happy. So he left. then Dallas feels fresh, new, West points.

I think it'll work early. There is a possibility, and I read, I was reading Mark Stein yesterday on Substack, veteran NBA reporter on his own, like, you know, his own thing. And, you know, he was talking about there's no discussion right now of a four-year deal, which is amazing to me. But if Dallas said, we just want to run this thing through the playoffs and see what it looks like, My guess, if they want to do that, is Kyrie will absolutely go all in and it'll work. Absolutely.

Best behavior. Kyrie has worked for a time in Boston or Cleveland or it's over the course of time, it struggles. But it's not a championship team. I do think the Warriors, when they get into the playoffs and they will will eventually flip a switch. I think the Clippers play real defense. Memphis plays real defense. those teams would beat this team. And I think it's easy because when you do get these gifted offensive players,

remember, playoff basketball is not regular season basketball. Regular season basketball, you get uneven rest. So if you have to come in and you roll into town and you played the Clippers last night and you fly in, you get into Dallas at two or three in the morning or whatever time it is, you go to the hotel shoot around, and the Mavs have Luca and Karee on two days, rest and you got road legs. It's the fourth game of a roadie. They're going to blow you out. They're going to blow you out. But if it's a playoff series, you're all equally rested. You can burrow in on a team's weaknesses. And Luke is not a very good defensive player. And Kyrie can be

atrocious. So if you play this team in a series, you can really burrow in on their weakness. And they've got one. So I don't think it's a championship team. But selfishly, I think it's going to be interesting. And I like interesting. And I do. do think you had to make a move to send the message to Luca, even though he's got a long-term deal. Hey, we're going to take some big swings here. We're going to take some big swings. That matters. I've never understood, I've talked about this for years. If I was a great NBA player, Dallas would always be at the top of my list if I was a free agent. Reason being it's in the center of the country. No five, six-hour flights. It's right in the middle of the country. New York's three

and a half away. Portland's three and a half away. L.A. is a couple. So if you're on a coast, you get a lot of long flights to the other coast. That's the first part. Cuban's a good over. He takes care of his players. Dallas, no state tax. It is a great place to be a young guy. Beautiful people everywhere. There's a lot of things to do. So I've never understood the difficulty with Dallas landing. So they draft Nevinsky's a home run and then they get Luke as a home run. And they can't get them the second guy. And I've asked people about this. Why not?

Is it viewed by basketball players as a football state? Is it viewed by basketball players as that Mark Cuban will always be the star of the franchise? I have no idea. But I like the idea that finally we've got two megastars in Dallas, which is a really good basketball market. They love their team. They support it. They win a lot of games. They've rarely been awful.

They're always semi-viable. And I can't wait to watch them play. Yeah, I agree with you. Dallas will be a great fit for Kyrie Irving because he's a flat earth guy. And, you know, Texas is a very flat state. It's just a, the symmetry there is perfect for Kyrie Irving in Dallas, Texas. I love it. I mean, it's a cynicism as a journalist. I love Kyrie Irving. I'm a huge fan of his work. All right. Greg Kossel, our power hour, it's the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smy,

and friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to learn the hard weight with your favorite therapist and hosts care games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor?

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