The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 2 - What Caleb Williams needs, Bo Nix is underrated, and hiring head coaches, Greg Cosell

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Greg Cosell from NFL Films joins the show to tell Colin what Caleb Williams needs improve on most in year 2 and why Bo Nix is underrated Knowing schemes is great but you're basically hiring a CEO when you hire a head coachSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com. or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It's a Thursday. It is our number two. Appreciate you stopping by.

I'm going to the live tour Saturday. I may be out there and grab my clubs. Hit some bombs out there, Jamie. I'm excited to watch. Isn't it cool to do sports against, like, like real professional athletes? It's exciting. Bryson de Chambol will be out there.

I'm fired up for it. So it's a fun time of the year. Tomorrow night, Shador Sanders is going to play. The two 90-mile-an-hour speeding tickets and the pre-draft interviews and the legendary draft room, I don't love that stuff. I don't think he's a terribly serious young man, and I think the position demands that.

We'll find out tomorrow, though, is could he be a great backup, or is he good enough for Cleveland at the end of the year or the trade deadline to move him for a draft pick? I think Cleveland, who has two first-round picks, wants to this year get as many picks as they can. If they can move Kenny Pickett here in the preseason, if they could move Shadour Sanders end of the season, if you get six-round picks, you're just looking for 9, 10, 11, 12. pick so if you give up six to move up a couple slots that's what you that's that's the game it's an inexact science and uh speaking of in exact the chicago bears new coach caleb williams let's bring in gregg co-sell for the first time in our football season 46 years NFL film so you spend your off season watching like you know every snap of these quarterbacks the red zone snap that's what you do so yeah one of the things that always worries me about a quarterback

is if they have a college problem, footwork, hero ball. Yeah. And it becomes a problem very early in the NFL. So they're either uncoachable or they don't have a coach that knows how to fix it. So my concern on Caleb is, little hero ball, holds it too long. Those were knocks at USC. So when you looked at all in hindsight, the snaps, what do you see that absolutely has to be worked on going into year two? Well, there's a lot to unpack with Caleb Williams.

I think that if you just watch his tape from a year ago, some concerns are just his ability to sort of have a feel in the pocket. He had a tendency to step up when there was no need to step up, so what that would do is it would bring him closer to the offensive line and the pass rushers. And so he created his own pressure at times. And obviously, he's just not a guy that saw it as good. cleanly as you like so he held the ball too long but think about this colin you watch a ton of college football as well and this is not a test question but let's throw this out what do quarterbacks in

college never do most of them they do not huddle so now you're with ben johnson okay he's essentially a rookie now caleb williams you almost have to forget about what happened last year because now what he's learning is he's learning very wordy play calls that have a lot of alerts sometimes there's two play calls that are built into a particular verbiage. And then there's shifts, there's motions, there's all kinds of things that he has to learn just to get from the huddle to the line of scrimmage with a reasonable amount of time on the play clock so that when the shifts and the motions happen, he has time to see how the defense responds.

This is the operational part of playing quarterback that he's never really done before, not to the level that Ben Johnson demands. So we have to start from there before we even put him on the field playing in a real game. So there's an awful lot to learn for Caleb Williams. So this is almost a rookie season all over again. As a pure talent throwing the football, he's phenomenal. But before you get to that, there's so much more that he has to learn. And I hope people understand that that's going to take time.

So Kevin O'Connell and J.J. McCarthy. Kevin runs advanced schemes. This is like McVeigh. Matt Stafford is a sharp guy, and that's one of the reasons that McVeigh was so attracted to him in Detroit. I mean, I've seen the study habits of Stafford. They're kind of legendary. So do you think the advanced schemes, because I like Minnesota's offensive personnel, do you think the advanced schemes help or hurt J.J. McCarthy, help or hurt him?

Well, I think they're advanced, but in other ways, they're theoretically simpler in the sense that what Kevin O'Connell is really good at, just like Kyle Shanahan is really good at, is they're really good at getting the primary read open and available for the quarterback, because they're really good at understanding defenses, which is critical as a play caller. You're not calling plays in a vacuum. You're calling plays based on your sense of defensive and probability. And one thing Kevin O'Connell's really good at, we saw that with Sam Darnold last year, which is why Sam had such a good season. One of the reasons anyway is he's so good at getting that primary read open. And that will be critical for J.J. McCarthy this year, because my guess is Jay J.J. McCarthy in these early stages of his development is not going to be great yet at working through progressions, certainly not full field progressions. So I think that's a critical piece of of how j j mccarthy can do this year and all that gets tied in with your footwork and the timing of routes there's so much that goes into that that will be a work in progress

as well so um i watch bow nicks twice live in college he's cut he's fat he's fast yeah um when you watched all his tape i my take is we don't watch denver as much as we watch those nfc east teams and people just don't realize how good of an athlete he is when you look at look at Bo Knicks rookie tape, what are people missing about him because his numbers were better than Jaden in many instances? I think what people miss, and I would say I probably missed it to some degree as well when I did his college tape, even though I liked him, is I think his arm is better than people gave it credit for. And when I say arm strength, I'm not talking about the ability to throw the ball 60 or 70

yards. I'm talking about the ability to stick, throws in the middle of the field, dig balls, you know, 18 to 22 yards in breaking routes between and over defenders. He threw the ball really, really well. Those are really arm-strained throws, those kinds of throws. And I think that he throws the ball a lot better than people give him credit for. Now, I think there's clearly some things that he has to work on. I'm sure Sean Payton would tell you that. He's only going into his second year. But I think just in terms of sheer physical traits as a passer, he's a lot better than he's been given credit for. And you've probably been around him. He's a pretty big kid, Colin.

He's not a small guy, and he's a very good athlete. Yeah, very, very good athlete. I noticed that when I went to the Utah Oregon game and I sat behind the bench and he is ripped. I mean, he's not trying to show off. He is just cut, very little body fat. So Drake May came in. I think we both liked Drake May. We said the comp was Justin Herbert, and there's times I've watched him, and he does look a little like Herbert.

I mean, the size, the number, the way he moves. Is there anything you saw? Now he's got a better coach. They spent $300 million around him online play. What was your overall appraisal of him in the rearview mirror now watching year one and his growth? Very impressed. Given, as you know, Colin, a bad situation. Maybe one of the worst five old lines in the NFL.

receiving core that I mean I would bet a lot of people couldn't even name their receivers so given the situation he was in I thought he handled himself really well you'd expect him to be up and down in that situation and he was but I think overall you're dealing with a kid that's big he's physical he throws the ball really well he can move yeah I mean I don't think there's anything and again we're not there so we don't know the mental capacity of how he assimilates all the information that he needs to assimilate. Obviously it's Josh McDaniels now, as the OC will see how that goes. But you're dealing with a guy that has pretty higher level traits.

And it might take some time and he's learning a brand new offense. I'm not sure people realize how difficult that is. You've been around, you've seen play calls, you've seen how all that works. That's hard. It's hard to assimilate a brand new offense. He just went through a rookie year where he had to work his tail off mentally, and now all of a sudden he's starting from scratch, with a whole new offense, probably brand new terminology.

So that takes time. But when you talk about the physical and athletic traits, he's got them. You know, this offseason, you know, I know it's a slow off season for all of us in the talk show business, but there was a little bit of a week-long theory. Jalen Hertz, when GMs and coaches polled privately their thoughts on the top 10 quarterbacks, Jalen Hertz was like nine. And my take has always been, I trust Greg Kosell. And I've said this.

He reminds me of a more talented Dak Prescott. I like his EQ. I like his IQ. I like his toughness. I like his leadership. I don't love him from the pocket. I never love Dak from the pocket. I just thought he was a smart, tough, gritty leader.

When you hear that Jalen Hertz, the GMs, the scouts, the coaches are like, he's ninth best, what is your takeaway on Hertz the quarterback? Well, I think every quarterback for the most part and becomes a function in many ways of their team, and Hertz is very much that kind of player. When you think about the Eagles and how they won a year ago, the Super Bowl, my guess is most people, the first thing they say is not, boy, that's Jalen Hertz's team. I mean, this was a team with a running back that had historical season. They've got the best O'Line in football.

They had the best defense in football. Jalen Hertz is a piece of a really good team. And they do a lot of things that are difficult to defend. And let me give you a few examples. And I've spoken to coaches this offseason about it. They are a four-down offense literally once they get to, let's say, the minus 45-yard line or the 50-yard line. So now what happens is defense is when it's third and eight have to play them totally differently because you know what?

They're going to run the ball on third and eight. Most teams will never consider running the ball on third and eight. So now you have to think, how do I play defensively? Because they're going to run the ball, because if they get to fourth and two, they are going to go for it. And Jalen Hertz is a critical, critical piece of their third down and fourth down offense. And one of the things he does exceptionally well, and I heard this a lot this offseason, everybody talked about A.J. Brown and how critical it is that he can win one-on-one on the outside. Because Jalen Hertz, the best thing about his throwing, Colin, is he works outside the business.

numbers. He can throw the fade ball. He can throw the go ball. And A.J. Brown gets a ton of one-on-one because of the nature of their run game, which of course Jalen Hertz is a significant part of. So he's a critical piece in what he brings. But if you're comparing him to, let's say, the quarterbacks that we think of as being the elite guys that can in a sense be the guys that win games by themselves, he probably does not fall into that category. So I said my prediction is when quarterbacks get old and rich, they do not want to get hit. And Aaron Rogers last year, Eli, at the end of his career, he didn't want to get hit. Brady was practicing how to get sacked.

When I watched Aaron at the end of last year, it was a lot of underneath stuff. He didn't want to take hits, and I don't blame him. The Jets old life. Well, Pittsburgh can't solve their offensive line. We're on six years in a row now, Greg. And the early reports from camp are, he's not throwing the ball down the field. It might take is outside of Matt Stafford.

Very few old, wealthy quarterbacks are willing to take a helmet to the chin strap. He's one of one. I think the problem with Aaron in Pittsburgh is he, like the Jets, he will not trust that O line. What do you think of that? I wish I had time to tell you a great Jim Kelly story, but that'll be for another time. But anyway, you know, I think the key thing here is the tackle position for the Steelers. because Roderick Jones going into his third season has not really shown that he's a quality NFL offensive tackle, and that's a concern.

Look, the litmus test for offensive tackles in the NFL is can they pass protect 101 on third down? And right now the Steelers have a question about that, and if that remains a question in the regular season, your point about Rogers is 100% right. He's not going to want to get hit. He's going to want to get rid of the football. He won't be immobile, but he certainly doesn't have the mobility that he had, four, five, six, seven years ago. So it'll be very interesting.

And then Arthur Smith, obviously, they'd like to run the ball as the foundation of their offense. That's going to be the absolute critical piece. You know, Roger still throws the ball as well as anybody, but I'm not sure at this point in his career, behind that O line, you want to ask him to drop back 40 times a game. No, you do not. So the Lions lose Ben Joe. They lose two great coordinators.

And I said, I've said multiple times, the Eagles go to a Super Bowl. lose their coordinators, hire the wrong guys, and then at one point lost six to seven games. We pay attention to quarterbacks and head coaches, but a lot of coaches that are not great scheme coaches need. They're very reliant on a scheme. Like, for instance, Dan Campbell's not known. Dan Campbell, Nick Sariani, you're not great scheme guys.

They're culture guys. And so losing Ben Johnson to me is a big deal. It wouldn't be a big deal for Shanahan. or Andy Reid. But I think Dan Campbell is more of a culture guy that is reliant on a great OC. When you looked at Ben Johnson last year, did we even undervalue him how important he was? I mean, I always felt like everybody was backpedaling against them because they had so much effectiveness with trick plays, a dominant O line. I don't think Detroit's going to be as good this year.

I don't think they're going to be as clever and creative. It'll be interesting because here's the question that we don't know the answer to, because now Jared Goff was in that system with Ben Johnson for what? Three, four years. I'm not sure we give Jared Goff enough credit. We just spoke about how Caleb Williams has so much to learn. Goff really mastered that offense, so the question is, how much input will he have? Johnny Morton, I believe, is the new OC, and he was there.

So obviously, they can keep a lot of the same principles and concepts, but now you get into game play calling, which we won't know the answer to that at all. But schematically, what Ben Johnson does to me is so good. The spacing he has versus zone coverage, it's beautiful, really defines it exceedingly well. But, you know, you're dealing with a quarterback in Goff, and as I said, I'm not sure we give him enough credit because he doesn't in many ways fit the mold of how we see quarterbacks now in the NFL because he's not a runaround guy. But, you know, Goff really handled everything in that offense. There are so many elements to that, as we discussed with Caleb Williams. So we'll see how Detroit is, but I think Goff plays a big role in this.

You know, it's funny you mention that because I read it this week, and I forget where I read it, but somebody said on the online, I thought it was smart, they said, Ben Johnson may be great, and Caleb's greatly talented. What if they're stylistically a bad match? Like Kyle Shanahan and does not want quarterbacks running out of his plays. He does not. No. And I do wonder if Ben and Caleb, it's not his guy, he didn't draft him, if stylistically, it may not be a perfect fit, Greg.

No, but no coach wants the quarterback to run out of their plays. I'm telling you that it's a fact, Colin. You know, obviously there's certain guys that can do that really well. And then the coaching staff goes, hey, great play, because they make great plays. but no coach you know look i've been a training camp so i'm sure you have these coaches work 15 hours a day no offensive coordinator is calling a game or any play to have the quarterback not executed the way it's supposed to be executed obviously they understand there are times that can't happen but they don't want it not to happen because the quarterback screws it up they want it not to happen because the

defense happens to win the down so there's no coach that wants the quarterback to just randomly break down and disrupt the play. So it's not that Caleb Johnson's a bad fit. Caleb Johnson needs to, excuse me, Caleb Williams, Caleb Williams needs to learn all this. And then as a parachute, as the last thing, then the ability to make those special plays comes into play. But that can't be the first thing. And finally, I tried to be very positive with Schuer Sanders. I did not like what I heard about his interviews pre-draft. I did not like the kind of lack of self-awareness. legendary in his draft room. But I was like, listen, he's accurate.

He moves pretty well, good pedigree. And then he got two speeding tickets. And I'm like, okay, you're not serious. You're not as serious. I need a grown-up for this position. And so I don't have high hopes. And I said this for years. I think quarterback, it's almost unfair.

But we need you to be, have the maturity of your dad at 23. That's why the manning's all work. They're all like, you know, they're very mature people. So I don't have particularly high hopes because I've seen a lack of self-awareness and judgment for Shadur. Is there anything on tape you love or don't love as he plays tomorrow in the exhibition game? Well, I think what his tape showed, and look, he was a fifth-round pick, and he's a fifth-round pick for a reason.

Now, can fifth-round quarterbacks make it? Of course they can, so I'm not going to sit here and say whether he will or won't. But I think what you saw on tape was a quarterback that's a little smaller than you'd ideally like that throws the ball well but not incredibly well. I think he's accurate but not quite as super accurate as a lot of people make out, and that's based on film study. That's not an opinion. And I've had that conversation, by the way, with coaches.

And he's essentially a pocket quarterback. He's not a statue, but if he were to be a really good NFL quarterback, Colin, it would have to be because he's a pocket quarterback. He's not a playmaker. He doesn't give you a playmaking dimension. He's not Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen. He's not going to be that guy. So that's what he is.

Those kinds of quarterbacks in the NFL tend to be complementary pieces. They can be really, really good. I mean, you could argue Jared Goff is that kind of quarterback. He's far more talented than Chedars Sanders. But, I mean, essentially, he's a pocket quarterback. So he needs a really good coaching staff. He needs team. He needs a lot of things around him to be successful.

Maybe he will be. Yeah, the two best pocket guys are Stafford and Goff, and they are great throwers of the football. They are elite. Great throw. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I think Goff has probably the most underrated arm in the league. Not the best, but the most underrated arm in the league, Jared Goff.

And you know that Stafford, let me tell you something. Stafford is so highly respected in the league. Everywhere I go, all people want to talk to me about is Matthew Stafford and how great he is. And I'm not sure fans in general think about him that way, but he's so highly respected. Greg CoSell. Great seeing you. His first appearance of many. and have yourself a great Friday and a great weekend.

All right, thanks, Colin. Really appreciate it. Yeah, no, it's so, yeah, and again, I just, it's amazing to me that people would downplay two speeding tickets for a fifth round quarterback in a week. It's just, it's, I had a situation, all these coaches and GMs, they watch all these shows, and they list, they're just information junkies.

I can remember just a small thing, I remember, as an aside, during the Combine, when Will Levis showed up in the sleeveless shirt with a gun show. And I was like, oh, so bad. He's trying. He wants, you know, he's trying. I had an NFC coach call me after the show, leave a message. I called him back and put me on speakerphone with somebody. And they were laughing.

They were like, oh, God, we just thought it was the most ridiculous thing. And then I had an AFC executive. I had a text with him two or three times and he's like, what matters to you, you're sending signals at the senior bowl. You're sending signals at the combine. Sometimes in games, you're emotional. You do things that, you know, it's in the heat of the battle.

But when you're in a combine or a senior bowl or a practice, you're sending signals and these GMs, they're watching all of it. You get two speeding tickets. as a fifth round quarterback. Every team that passed on him laughed at him. The New York Giants, oh, Jackson, Dart, Giants were laughing at that. Remember how Bad Shadoor's interview reportedly was with the Giants?

And they were like, we got questions on self-awareness. They were laughing at that. Don't let your critics laugh. Make them wish, hope they sit in there going, remember when Letterman left NBC and went to CBS, and Letterman had this hysterical opening press conference, conference. It was genuinely laugh out loud, off the script funny. You knew the NBC executives were watching that CBS press conference going, we probably just should have paid him.

He's the funniest guy on the planet at the time. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, this is Jason McIntyre. Join me every weekday morning on my podcast, Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. This isn't your typical sports pod pushing the same tired narratives down your throat every day.

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We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests. in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay. Jenchian won. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters, to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action, with stories told by

the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. It is early August. Mid-August is a lot of baseball teams getting ready for the postseason. Texas, Ohio State. Labor Day weekend. Can't wait for that.

Jay Mack with the news. This is the herd line news. Colin, we're starting with the team we rarely talk about around here, and that's the Chicago Bears and Ben Johnson. Ben's instilling a new culture in Chicago, and it starts with accountability. There's GM. Ryan Poll said Johnson has been holding players to a standard, and it starts with the QB. I see a ton of growth. Ben has been hard on the quarterback position because of everything you just said. There's a lot that rides on the quarterback's shoulders.

So what he's doing is he's making it hard now So that when we get to games Things slow down for us He understands the growth and development process Of the quarterback position There's going to be days that are really good And there's going to be days where maybe you take a step back Interesting man

So Colin you and I do some interviews I go on radio shows often I will say this It's got to be real tough As a football player basketball player coach GM To have to face the media every day and not step in it and say something that you're going to regret or want to walk back instantly. Because with Caleb, there's been some issues with Ben Johnson, clearly, right?

I mean, you've been banging on them almost three, four days a week. Yeah. And all it takes is one kernel from this guy, because I'm parsing every word. You know, bears bloggers, social media, they're going through every word. And there's days where you might take a step back. Wait a minute, what? Year two, it's got to be step forward. It's got to be linear.

What's going on here? And I just, I don't envy polls having to go do all these interviews. It's just, especially with a new coach, new culture, quarterback off the struggle bus. It just feels tough. And it does matter that Chicago is a big, loud, aggressive media market. I listen to Chicago radio. It's Cubs, because the Cubs are good this year, it's Cubs and Bears. And that's what they talk about.

And so there's a lot of eyes on it. And it's not a very good ownership group. There's questions about upstairs. I don't know if Poles is good or not. I don't know. He's done some things I like. He's done some things I don't like. I like Ben Johnson a lot, and I think Caleb is really gifted.

I mean, even Greg Kosell said, despite his problems, he said, when he throws the football, it is beautiful. It is. He has got a power. He's like Mahomes. Mahomes is like 6-2. He's not that big of a guy. The dad bod. Mahomes has a cannon.

Caleb Williams is six feet tall. But he, his arm is like, It's a top five or six arm in the league. He has a huge power arm. I mean, listen, this ain't Jacksonville. You know, Ryan. Jacksonville GM goes on radio, like 17 people hear it. You go on Chicago, it's a brushfire every day.

Let's move on to Pittsburgh, Colin. I don't like this story one bit. So Aaron Rogers, obviously, new to Pittsburgh, just got there. Offense is kind of struggling. So Rogers is struggling to develop chemistry with his receivers who are not DK Metcalf. Listen closely to what Roger said here. I just got to get real out of his head a little bit,

you know, because I think he's such a good kid. He cares so much about whether it's by approval or he's doing it right. And he just got to trust himself because he's so damn talented. You know, the more he can play free and not think out there, the better he's going to play. So the more he can just trust what he's got and they just go out and react, the better he's going to play. Okay, so the back story, Roman Wilson, kid out of Michigan is a young receiver.

He was a rookie last year, third round pick. And Aaron Rogers meeting the media felt compelled to tell them, oh, this young guy, he's got to get out of his head a little bit. I mean, I know it's August, Colin, and I know Rogers just got there. But that's like the antithesis of leadership, is it not? Well, I don't know. I don't know if that bothers me. go to the media. Tell Roman, bro, get out of your head. Go to the media and hype this guy up.

Can you imagine if you were doing interviews when I started on the show and you're like, Jay Max got to get out of his head a little bit. That's what I told. That's what I told management. I didn't have to go. Tell management. Don't tell the media, so I got to read about it. Yeah, I, you know, I mean, I think I have a hard time criticizing Aaron Rogers or Kevin Durant when they give me content. And so I do think there are certain people, certain athletes, who just tell you how they feel. My only issue with Aaron is, and it's not really an issue,

Aaron does not want to get hit. He's 41 and rich. And Pittsburgh, you've got to sit in there. This is not a great old. They lost their left tackle, Naji Harris. This is not a good old line. And so I think they're a bigger issue. I don't think Roman Wilson, he's more of a,

I was never a huge, of all the great Michigan players. I thought he was kind of a two or a three in the NFL. I don't even know if he's a two. Maybe he is, but it doesn't bother me that much. I mean, it doesn't bother you. So Aaron Rogers says that. It's all over Pittsburgh, radio, TV, blog, social media, and I'm sure Roman Wilson sees it.

And now you're in the locker room, and everybody's looking at you knowing you're in your head. That's just unnecessary crap, Colin. This is what Rogers does, man. He's divisive. He's not unifying. Well, I mean, Roman Wilson, if he's going to make it in the pros, that comment cannot be an obstacle.

You don't get rainbows and palm palms every day. If you can't handle some criticism by Aaron Rogers, you're not built for it. I mean, seriously, you got to really, Roman Wilson's going to go home at sleepless night tonight. He'll be fine. Praise publicly, criticized privately. A smart man once. I think that was Plato, Aristotle, somebody really smart. Anyways, final story, Colin, let's go to the Raiders.

Gino Smith and Pete Carroll reuniting in Vegas in their first. game as Raiders, the duo will go to a very familiar place to play Seattle. Gino talked about returning to his old home with his old coach. Man, looking forward to it. Really looking forward to it. Looking forward to it, looking forward to seeing my old teammates, old coaches, people in the building. It'll be fun.

Also going back with Pete, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I think Dino, Gino's a little Sam Darnold. If you give him that extra second to stand in there and throw it, he's good. He's very good. If you rush him with Donald and Gino, you're going to get mistakes. I think the O-line for the Raiders is fine. In their division, it's not as good as Denver's, and I don't think it'll be as good as the Chargers.

It may be on par with Kansas City, where you're kind of hoping Josh Simmons works at left tackle. But I think the Raiders are actually going to be good. I just don't know. I think in a lot of divisions, I'd pick them as a Dark Horse Wild Card team and a lot of division. If you put them in the AFC South, I think they could win the division.

If you put them in the NFC South, I think they could battle. I don't think they're as good as Tampa because of Baker, but they could battle to win the division. I think in this place they're battling for third because they don't have Denver's roster. They don't have the Charger. They don't have Mahalms.

You know, and so, I mean, Pete didn't get an easy draw here. They've got three or four great players. Brock Bowers and Max Crosby are first ballot, all pro guys. Those guys are great players. secondary is a little underrated, but if they can protect Gino, I think here's what I would say. The Raiders have a chance to split every series in this division, and you can't say that about the Giants in the NFC East. You can't, most fourth place teams do not have a chance to split. There's some fourth place teams, Indianapolis, you know, if their quarterback plays as bad as

it could be, they're going to get swept by somebody in division. I think the Raiders could split with the Chiefs, the Broncos, and Kansas City. I think there'll be that improved. I got a couple moles in Vegas and Colin, the hype train for Ashton Genty right now. I mean, they're saying like this guy's going to right out of the gate be an unbelievable player for the Raiders. Now, we'll see. I know it's a big leap from Boise to the NFL.

I can't wait to, I cannot wait to watch him play. You know, I think, you know, I would not be surprised if it was a 13, 1400. yard season from Ashton, Junk. I'll just put that out there. A little fantasy football out there. Okay. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lying News.

I like my coaches to get in the middle of scrums. We'll talk about that next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and

friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Genshin win. I mean, she went down in three to Roebuckina, but I'm delighted. Yeah, she's an outsider to win the French. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennarabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Saturday, it's a baseball night in America as a rising star Pete Crow Armstrong. Plades the Cubs against the Cardinals

or Bryce Harper and the Phillies Battle the Rangers. Check localist for the game in your area Saturday. Seven Eastern on Fox. So it was about probably about four months ago, four or five months ago. It was, what are we in August, July, June, June. It was, teams were hiring, had just finished up hiring their coaches in the NFL. So maybe that's probably about March.

And I was talking, I was driving on the 405, headed home. And I was, I called a friend of mine who's an executive. in the NFL who has hired multiple coaches in his career, his long career. And he said, you know, what you're really doing when you hire a coach is in the NFL, you're hiring a CEO. If they're good with schemes, that's a bonus. And he mentioned like Shanahan and Andy Reed. He said, yeah, that's a bonus.

But they don't have to be. He said, you know, Mike Tomlin's hoisted a trophy. Pete Carroll has been to a couple of Super Bowls. Their walk-around guys, they're CEOs. there and he goes you're what you if you have a guy that's great with schemes but he's terrible in building a culture

that won't work if you have a guy who's not necessarily great with schemes but he can hire a great staff he's great with culture that can get it to Super Bowls and win Super Bowls and so when the Patriots hired Mike

Vrable Vrable's really smart but he's known as a culture guy He builds toughness. And so they got into a scuffle at New England practice. And Vrable, and this is very much Mike Brable. This is Dan Campbell talking about biting kneecaps. Dan Campbell is a smart guy, but he's a culture guy.

And he walked into Detroit and he was yelling and he'd dip in and he was tough. He was creating a culture of toughness. Take his shirt off and bang into it. Harbaugh does this. He'll take his shirt off. He'll go up against the sled. Harbaugh no schemes, but Harbaugh's a culture builder. So Vrable gets into a scuffle.

They have some scuffle. He jumps into it because head gets all bloody. And Drake May was talking about him breaking up the camp scuffle. And it starts with the coach, start for the head coach, the intensity, bringing it every day. You know, taking no crap, you know, we're out there on the field. But also it comes to a time where with our guys offensively and get over there and get some dussles and kind of have some penalties and extra after the whistle can get us in trouble. but for mentality I like it.

So, and again, it helps, it helps that Vrabel is a large man. But Nick Saban's a culture builder, and he's 5'6. You didn't know that. He's 5'6. So that's not everything. Urban Myers more of a bigger athletic man. Mike Tomlin's a culture guy. Vrable is, Dan Campbell is.

And then that's one of the things I have said. I mean, I always thought, remember when the Bulls and the Knicks would get into these series of the Miami Heat and Alonzo Moore? and Patrick Ewing. I love that Jeff Van, those were physical series, and the Knicks were trying to establish physicality in that series,

and Jeff Van Gundy knew it. And Van Gundy's nuts anyway. I love him, but he knew how important physicality was in this series, and the NBA was going to let him fight, and Van Gundy wanted to send a message. I might be five and a half, but I'll fight with you.

you. Look at Van Gundy. This video is so good. Van Gundy knew it was intentional. He didn't want to get hit, but he knew he was sending a message. You're not pushing my team around. This is a dog fight, and I'll take my tie off. I'll fight you. That is so incredibly powerful. That is so powerful and so infrable does it. And that's what I've said about Mike McDaniel. I don't question that Mike McDaniel's smart. But he's a little bit of it. little guy, and he's kind of snarky, and the media likes him, and the analytic guys love him. You know, Brandon Staley was smart, but I didn't know if he could build a culture. He'd get defensive at the microphone.

Some guys, smart doesn't equal alpha. And there is that you've got 55 men in the locker room, and Nick Wright came on this week, and we both think McDaniel is super bright. But what are the dolphins four years in? What are Brian Flores? it took him eight games. Remember, they were like one in seven. It took him eight games to build the culture. But by like the ninth, tenth, tenth game of his Miami reign, and you didn't have to like Brian Flores. That team was good defensively and physical. And Brian Flores is an alpha, and he's loud and he's tough, maybe too much so.

But I think there is value in certain sports when you get to the NBA playoffs and it is physical. I mean, Steve Kerr is legendarily feisty. He got punched by Michael Jordan. Part of what makes the Warriors work in their prime was Draymond Green, Steve Kerr, Andre Igwadala. It was a tough team. They weren't big. They were feisty. There was a lot of confrontation.

Pat Riley's teams were the Lakers. Pat's all slick in Armani suits. Pat was a fighter. Pat, when he went to the Knicks, Pat loved physicality. And Pat would let guys know. Pat would bark at refs, bark at everybody. It mattered. And this was Nick Wright.

And this has always been the only thing with Mike McDaniel. I don't doubt he's smart. Can he build Lincoln Riley? Same criticism. We know he's smart. Can he build a culture? Why aren't his teams tougher? Here's Nick Wright this week on Mike McDaniel.

Some of the reason that the media loves him might also be related to why his team pretty clearly does not fear him the way they seem to some of the more effective coaches. But I think that there is an arrogance to the idea that in some ways that football has talked about when it comes to the actual physicality and toughness of the game that gets lost in some of the math. It's interesting, and it's not just size. Again, Sabin's 5'6. I think Sean McVeigh is about 5-9-5-10. I've talked to Rams players about McVeigh. He is probably right now as good as any culture builder in the league. He's probably the best culture builder. McVe's unbelievable in the locker room. He is unbelievable in the film room. Like, and I'm talking as good as anybody that's ever been.

Sean McVeigh may be as good as any culture builder in league history. He's 5-9, 5-10. Sabin's 5-6. But there is something. It's volume, it's presence. McVeigh is good-looking. You know, he was a good athlete. And I just think this stuff matters. And the media thinks it's a bunch of bull, but that's my thing. When Mike Vrable's getting involved in a scuffle or Jeff Van Gundy is, it's intentional. It's like, guys, I'm in the fight with you. And Brable's got blood coming out of his forehead.

It's like, that's Mike Vrable. You go back to Dan Campbell early. I thought it was a little meat-headed. I was wrong. I was like, boy, this biting kneecap stuff. This is embarrassing. I missed. Players, I remember it was either the first or second year of Detroit, and they weren't good yet.

They played Baltimore, and I think they played them at home, and Baltimore beat them. And I went on the end, I remember saying this. I said, I don't know how good Detroit is. That team plays so hard. Every stinking, the kneel down play, it was physical. And I think I don't know, I don't remember what year it was. They weren't great. They were getting close, but they played.

played the Ravens. I think it was, you know, you've heard of the word sweat equity. This is kind of part of it. It was like early in the process against the Ravens, and Ravens had far more talent. And I was so blown away by how physical they were. You don't get that unless the coach is building a unique culture. You just don't get it. Do you guys find what game that was? I don't know. I just remember, I swear it was the Ravens. I swear it was. But, you know, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. It's summer.

I'll have to go back. I have to chat GPT. I'll find out here in the break. Albert Breers joining us in the last hour. If you miss Greg CoSell, we'll put him on the podcast as well. Archie Manning's saying Arch Manning's not going pro. You're going to stay. He may just five, six year red shirt again.

May stay at Texas forever. We'll talk about that. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick, and guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. On Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicalife Life 12. and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast

for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garros. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lennar Rabakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubber. It's tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app.

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.