The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 2 - Whose career would you rather have?

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

Colin doubles down on his praise for Jimmy Butler for leading the Heat in their game 1 win over the Celtics Thoughts on Jayson Tatum and the Celtics and the end of Game 1 of ECF   Guest: Chris BroussardSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Angeles the herd, wherever you may be. However, you may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day. You know, I got into this discussion. We got all the writers are all picketing all over Los Angeles. They're having the big, the strike, the writer's strike. And I was telling somebody last night I got into this discussion, I said, my wife and I will watch a streaming show. And it doesn't matter who the actors are. You can tell 10 to 12 minutes into a streaming show. It doesn't matter what the actors are. If the writing is crap, it's a bad show. I watch Acorn. Acorn's kind of a British version of Netflix. Great writing. It's my favorite channel. You can tell where Netflix or Amazon, Priner, Hulu. You can tell when they put the best writers on a series and the weakest ones,

is that writers make all this stuff. If it's not about the writers, then why did Marlon Brando have 10 bombs? Why does Tom Hanks have bad movies? Why does stars have bad movies? Because the script sucks. You can take no-name actors. Stranger Things had a bunch of kids. The writing was great. They were using eight-year-olds. You didn't know who they were. There were kids.

If the writing is good, the show is good. If the acting is great, it's because the writing is good. I've seen Bob De Niro in bad movies. He's not a bad actor. He got a bad script. Pay the writers. I mean, it doesn't take me. It's just like you can say all you want.

If Patrick Mahomes had a defensive coordinator, and a bad offensive line coach, he would still be Patrick Mahomes, the guy that can't ever get to the playoffs consistently. Andy Reed is at least 35 to 40 percent of it. You need, I mean, go look at the Saints the minute Sean Payton left. They couldn't move the football. And I'm not saying the players, I'm not saying that Tom Cruise isn't more valuable than just an average writer or a writer. But I'm saying, and there are some stars that really can move audiences. there's a reason great actors are in bad movies.

The writing stinks. And you can watch a streaming show. You can tell 10 minutes into a streaming show if you watch stuff and you're like, oh, it's hacks. This is awful. It's not because the actors are awful. The script is stupid. It's overwritten.

It's cliche. Pay the writers. Pay the people who they're, I don't know if they're 50%, but I'm going to tell you this. There's never been a great movie with a bad script. During the next commercial break, I'm going to look into the new Mission Impossible script. I sent you the trailer. What did you think? Did you watch it?

Yes, I watch all the Mission Impossible's. They're all fantastic. The writing is crisp and high-level stuff. First of all, those don't win the Oscar. Those are action movies. And I will tell you, if you go to the great action movies, Terminator, Die Hard. Oh, those are well written. Top Gun is well written.

I'm not saying they're, you know, usual suspects. Oh, yeah. That's a great movie. But I'm saying is, otherwise actors would, like Jamie Fox or Tom Hanks or Denzel Washington, would never be in a dud. Because you just go for the stars. Tom Hanks has been in duds. Bad script. So, because here, we're talking about Jimmy Butler.

And you made a comment during the break. We have our discussions during the commercial break are much better than the show often. So you made a comment about, you gave me five players. Okay, so, boy, I just did this online. People are so angry at me. So the 2011 NBA draft. So just, okay, 2011 draft. Ask me the question. You tell me who's had the best career of these four players. Kyrie Irving, he went number one, Clay Thompson, Kauai Leonard, Jimmy Butler. Individually. Who had the best career of those players. Jimmy Butler, obviously, last night was tremendous. Individually, I would say Jimmy Butler. I would say if it's about team success and titles, it would be Clay and then

Kauai, but Kauai is literally not available ever. So, you're like, he's done. I mean, the last four years, he's never available. Jimmy Butler, all he does in the playoffs, Colin, is he plays and he wins. That's what he does. He gets to the conference finals with inferior teams. Now, Kauai Leonard had an awesome run in San Antonio, the great culture, blah, blah, blah. Go back to his great run in San Antonio.

They got rid of him. Yeah, because why? Because he refused to play. He didn't want to play. He was hurt for the whole season. Go find the Tony Parker quotes where he's like, listen, he's practicing with us. He looks good. I don't know where he is.

Ask yourself this. In 20 years, when you're talking about both of them, who's the guy you're going to be like, I love that guy. It ain't going to be Kauai Leonard. It's going to be Jimmy Butler. A lot of buts with Kauai Leonard. Wow. He was great. But he can't get along. But you can't build a franchise around him. But he's bad for the culture. He doesn't do back to backs. There's no buts with Jimmy Butler. He's great. He plays his arse off. He's better when you need him. There's no butts to his game. He's not as slick as Tatum. He's not, he can't shoot like Steph, but there's no butts to his game. It's like that guy gets every ounce of talent out of his game. Six steals last night. Six. And I got, I got two travelings by Tatum in 90 seconds. And I like Tatum. That's hurt.

Come on. I'm not saying it was Greg Norman Masters. But it was, no, it was bad. Game one. It was game one. It was bad, though. Okay. It'll be fine.

Here's, here's Jimmy, Jimmy Buckets. He got every inch of the rim. Here's his big three to sail. Seal it. Shot clock at three. Butler with Progged an animal. It's a long three. And God.

Jimmy freaking Butler puts it in. Woo! Is that Kevin Harland with the call? Yeah. By the way, Yokic, a second rounder is crushing Butler, 30th pick, fourth team doubted by everybody crushing it. Playoffs are about the fight and the chip and the will, not just talent. Austin Reeves.

Undrafted for the. Lakers, he was a beast in game one. So it's funny. Butler's a classic example of how important fit is. So he left Philadelphia because of the indifference of Simmons, Ben Simmons. He left Minnesota

because of the unpredictability of Carl Anthony Towns and the passiveness of Andrew Wiggins. So Miami, he wanted to play hard and practice hard and be pushed and have his teammates be culpable for the mistakes. Where do you go?

Pat Riley, Miami Spolstra. So Jimmy Butler is a great example about fit matters. Andrew Wiggins works in Golden State. When you asked him to be a one, he did not. So Butler found the bosses that worked for him. I say this all the time to young people. I say, don't chase money in broadcasting. Chase fit and management.

There's a sea of money if you're talented in every business. but find, tell my kids this, find the environment and the management and the leadership that works for you. I'll be the first, to be honest. I was done with Jimmy Butler. I'm like, this guy doesn't work any. He doesn't fit anywhere. Nobody likes him.

But the problem was Philadelphia was dysfunctional and Simmons didn't care about playing, and it pissed him off. And then Andrew Wiggins is great, but passive. And Carl Anthony Town is talented, but a bit unpredictable and squirly, and it ticked him off. And so he's like, I want to go to a play. By the way, you know he sat, I would have loved to have sat down with that meeting with his agent, Spolstra and Pat Riley. And I guarantee it sounded something like this. Are you willing to practice hard?

Are you willing to play hard? Are you willing to play hurt? Because that's what Miami's going to demand. Are you willing to play with undrafted guys? Maybe a little less talent. We're going to practice hard, play hard. We have a culture down here, no days off. And we old people accountable.

And Jimmy Butler's like, check, check, sign me up. I find Miami so interesting and not interesting. That's a wrong word. I find them so easy to root for. And I think part of it is even his brand of coffee. So Jimmy Butler didn't go out. He didn't find Starbucks or Pete's coffee. He literally in the bubble in his hotel room created his own coffee brand called Big Face.

It's so on brand for a guy that doesn't really have a brand. And there's, it's just, here was Jimmy Butler on a big game one. I'm playing at an incredible level because they're allowing me to do so. They're not putting a limit on my game. They're trusting me with the ball on the defensive end. And I think that's what any basketball player wants. That's what anybody wants out of life is just to be wanted, be appreciated, and just let you go out there and rock.

The other thing is, even though he demands the ball, as Kyle Lowry said after the game, he's not selfish. For you guys watch Jimmy Butler play, he's one of the most unselfish stars I've ever been around. And he's always like, shoot the ball, shoot the ball. And for a guy like that to give us the confidence, it works for us. And our team, Max undrafted, Gabe undrafted, Caleb undrafted. You know, we got a bunch of guys, Duncan undrafted. For him to give the confidence to those guys is only going to make us better.

It's interesting to think about this. So we got into this discussion yesterday. So if you rank the players, I think Butler's the best player. Tatum's second. Jalen Brown is third, Bams fourth. Who's fifth? Now, most people would say Marcus Smart, who averages 11 and a half points and gives you six assists a game. Lowry gives you 11 and a half points and gives you five and a half assists a game. Mostly he doesn't have as many assists because they don't have as good of players as Boston. but I don't think there's this huge gap Lowry to Marcus Smart. Smart's a better defensive player.

But it's like I'm watching Lowry last night. I know he's old. I know he's like 36 years old, but Lowry can be a really good player. Now, Kevin Love is mostly washed. He can hit a big three from occasion. He's a great outlet guy. He's a great guy that's a super smart guy to have on the team. But I think, you know, you think, well, okay, Marcus Smart's the next great player.

And I'm like, well, then Lowry and Marcus Smart, Lowry's a little slicker offensively in his career. Was a better offensive player. smart's a better defensive player yes boston has more talent i'm not denying that but i think we're kind of dogging miami's talent i mean bam last night is so active he's on the floor he's all oh i mean bam could have he had 20 points he could have finished with 30 how many tips did he had so many little things he made he couldn't get any gimmies or not many last night bam could have had a good night he could have had a great night maybe that i i'm i'm

I like Boston still. I watch that game and I'm like, the talent's a little closer. By the way, some of these Miami guys that we don't know and they're undrafted, you know, it's funny in the NFL, half the league is undrafted. We couldn't give a rip. But I mean, Austin Reeves is undrafted. Miami's got four undrafted.

It's like, I don't know. I don't know. It feels like we're getting into, I don't know why this is. But is there more talent globally in basketball? And because there's more kids playing it and it's more of a global. global sport. The scouts are occasionally, I mean, there's just more good players that are undrafted, that are late blooms. But I don't remember this many undrafted guys having an impact. I don't. I'm sure you could prove me wrong somewhere, but I just don't remember this many

second round and undrafted guys. Maybe it's just the Miami culture. I don't know. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Her to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

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So this is an interesting topic. If you ask who had the better career Bill Russell or Wilk Chamberlain, on most of the top ten lists, Wilk Chamberlain, Wilk Chamberlain's ahead of Bill Russell in almost every top ten list, even though Russell has 11 titles because Wilt was the greater player. So J-Mack, apparently, I'm not online, but J-Mack's getting crap because he said Jimmy Butler's had a better career than Kauai Leonard and Clay Thompson. Now, Clay Thompson's got four rings, but he was the number three player on the KD Steph team. Some would argue because Draymond at that time was the best defender in the league.

There were a lot of nights. He was the number four player on that team. Hell, Andre Iguodala won an MVP in the finals. Clay was the fifth best player on some nights. All right? So you get the rings, but who's a better player, Butler or Clay? Butler. Who would you want tomorrow in a game?

Who would you want the last six years? Butler. Now, that's indisputable. Butler's the better individual player. Nobody's ever, people don't understand. Jimmy Butler has pressure every game to be the man in Miami. Clay never has that pressure. He was the fourth best player, sometimes five,

and that Draymond, Iggy, KD, Steph. I mean, again, Iggy won an MVP, Steph's won an MVP, Katie's won two MVP. Not saying Clay's not great. But we never thought of him as not even being, For most of it, he wasn't even the two for a lot of it. I think Draymond's always been underserved because we just get fascinated with points. But if you watch them play, he's the screen shutter.

He's their catalysts offensively. He's the tough guy. He defends. He's the best. He's outside of just shooting. He does a lot of things at a high level. So, Kauai, now I will argue all day. Who would you take tomorrow, Kauai or Jimmy Butler?

It's not even close. That's not even close. I mean, Kauai, you can never build a culture around Kauai Leonard. He's the classic sort of mercenary. He comes in Toronto, you win and he leaves. One of the first things about greatness, can you build a culture around clay? No, that's not what he is. He's a catch and shoot guy.

Can you build a culture around Jimmy Butler? You just watched it on TV last night. Can you build a culture around Kauai Leonard? Absolutely not. They're trying it in L.A. It's been a disaster. It's been a big failure. So to me, you can have all this.

talent in the world. Can I build a TV show around you? All right. Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow. They built TV shows around him. That's different level than you can appear on one and be talented. I remember Jimmy Butler was on that Philadelphia team with Ben Simmons and Joelle and Bede. He was the heartbeat of that team. Anybody who covered the team will say that. They decided when they lost on the Kauai lucky shot that bounced in, we're going to keep Joel and Ben, thank you for your service, Jimmy. It was just like, really? And in Minnesota, Chicago. Like, Jimmy Butler was the guy. It just, he never really got along.

You know, him and Tibbs were good and then it fell out. Like, I think Butler's almost one of the more underappreciated stars of the last decade. No, there's no question. There's no question. And it's not just he did it last night. He's done it now for three years. Like going to the conference finals, going to the NBA finals. Listen.

Jimmy Butler's a centerpiece of a team. Kauai Leonard was that for five minutes in Toronto. There are arguments that you can't build around KD. Nobody disputes now. You can absolutely. build around Jimmy Butler. You can't build around Kauai. You've never been built. They tried to build around him in San Antonio and he wouldn't

practice. The team doctors are like, we don't see anything. I'm not practicing. He disappeared. Supposedly the Spurs had the greatest culture in the league for 10, 15 years, and he just couldn't work with it at the end? Just was like, I'm out of, you trade me? Like, that was very weird. It's still unexplained.

But you'll get, apparently you're getting crap because you say you'd take Butler over Clay. Well, Butler's better than Clay. Clay had the good fortune of playing with Steph, Steve Kerr, Kevin Durant. You know what this comes back to. And by the way, the richest owner who was willing to pay the luxury tax for $100 million luxury tax every year. This comes back to rings and the whole rings debate.

If you have rings, you're one of the greatest ever. And if you don't have them, you're, you're, you know, Charles Barkley's not amazing because he doesn't have ring. Kevin Durant's rings are tainted because it was current. This whole rings debate, Colin. I feel like you need to weigh in on that. You know what it is. Michael Jordan screwed it up.

Indeed. So for years and years. young people probably don't remember you would know this. Jerry West was called. His nickname was Mr. Clutch. Wasn't he like 0 for 8 in the finals? So Jerry West was the logo was Mr. Clutch. I think he was like 0 for 8.

He couldn't win. And he was considered clutch. If you take Jordan out of the sport, he has, he did win the, yeah, no, no, he. ended up winning a title, but he started out something like he won it in like 72-ish. And I think he had Wilton Goodrich.

That's, you know, 50 years ago, whatever it is. But for years and years, Jerry West could not win big game. And Jerry would tell you this, and he was called Mr. Clutch. We didn't, we weren't just paralyzed. When I grew up watching the NBA, that's not what you talked about. You talked about Dr. Jay's style. You talked about Wilts personality. I loved Gus Williams.

I didn't care he didn't win a title. Gus was flashy and fun. Then Michael came around, goes six for six. Well, wait. And then it's literally changed all the debates that if you, which is a joke debate because it's a joke, he couldn't get past until Pippin. He couldn't get past the good Pistons teams or the Celtics. And if Chicago would have been in the Western Conference, which for a while the Chicago Blackhawks and hockey were, he wouldn't have, he would have gotten to the finals and lost to Burton McHale and lost to the Pistons. Let's remember.

He won three and then left the sport for a year and a half. Like LeBron went to eight straight finals. It's like impossible to win six straight. Jordan would have never done that if he stuck around. The Elijah won teams were good. And it's just difficult. The wear and tear on your body, you know, going to the playoffs. Those playoff games are way tougher.

I think titles matter. Obviously. But if you're telling me Jimmy Butler Clay, who's the better player, it ain't close. It is not close. And now Butler has been to one finals. I still think Boston's going to win. if he gets to a second finals with this group, I think this is a defining year.

I mean, you start looking at this thing. When they got to the championship game series in the bubble, we were like, who's Tyler Hero? This team's a bunch of kids. Duncan Robinson. To take Max Streuzen and take these guys in? They got 45 points, I think, last night, from guys who were undrafted, Martin, Strucson, Vincent.

45 points. God, Vincent is a, he's a baller. They just, they just, but the Celtic. something was up with them, man. They weren't closing out on threes. The rotations weren't crisp. They just didn't look like they cared that much. And that's been their big problem.

I'm not somebody that bangs on coaches. This is a coaching mismatch. And if you don't think coaching matters, Miami came out at halftime and had an amazing 46.3 quarter. Celtics never called a timeout. Whoa, whoa. The minute Boston started the fourth quickly,

Spoh, timeout. Let's reset. here and they fix their problems. Like that's just a small part of coaching, but usually well-coached teams adjust well. We've been saying this about Darwin Ham. Darvin Ham's a very good adjuster. Very good.

Boston did not adjust last night. I barely talked about Lakers Nuggets tonight. Huge game. Huge. Massive. That's a, what's the line? I'll have to check. Let me guess. Let me guess. I'll check after this. All right. I'll guess. Right now. I'm going to guess the line.

Lakers minus one. Stop it. Come on. That's not even close. Denver minus two and a half. Denver minus five and a half. Oh, it's down to five now. It's down. Remember, game one was five and then up to six and a half. Okay, I'm taking the Lakers plus the points. It's down to five at a couple respected shops. I'm taking the point. I don't know if they'll win. I took Miami in the points last night. I didn't think they'd win. I'm taking the Lakers and the points. Oh, are the Lakers winning tonight? I don't know, but I'm taking the point. That's all what matters is the points. Hold on. Hey, let's go to Chris Broussard. Bring him in live. Chris Brouss.

Bruce Ard. First things first. I'll get the J. Mac in just a bit. All right, Bruce Ard, I don't want you sitting around and wait. We can make Macintyre can sit over there and drink his sodas and be online and yell at people. Let's start with this. I said, I like Tatum, and I like him a lot. But when you put him on a floor with Jimmy Butler and I get to watch him, they're different people. They have different.

I mean, Tatum is elegant. He's got a beautiful game. I mean, it is beautiful. It can lack a little, a little edge to it. Butler's all edge. I mean, sometimes he's shooting shot. I'm like, oh, this is ugly. And it's like, I mean, if you, and this sounds crazy, but, you know, all of our lives

are different. All of our journeys are different. Jimmy had a tough life, and I can see it when he plays. I mean, Chris, I can see his life when he plays. He is tough. He is a fighter. He's been doubted. Man, I mean, but I still love Tatum.

Were you surprised how ineffective he was in the fourth? Well, one, they weren't getting him the ball. And I heard you earlier talking about the coaching mismatch, and that's absolutely what's going on. We knew Eric Spolster was going to out-coach Joe Missoula. Missoula just has to stay within shouting distance of Spolstra because he's got the far more talented team. You mentioned no time out in the 46 point third quarter from Miami.

And then they weren't getting Tatum the ball. He has 18 points in the first half and he takes four shots in the second half. I get it. He did get to the foul line. So that's a little skew. But still, he wasn't getting the ball. And against Philadelphia, remember Jalen Brown was coming out with big first quarters and then not really getting the ball later in game.

So Missoula has to find a way. to get his two stars playing together, and when one of them's hot, keep feeding the hot hand. So as far as Jimmy and Tatum, I mean, Jimmy, like you said, he's all dog, and he's going to go at you. If you are not a dog,

then you will wilt in his presence. Period. You know, on the court, and I don't think Tatum wilted. I think Tatum's got dog in him. But remember, even though he's been in the league a long time, he's only 25. LeBron did not win his first championship.

Jordan did not win their first championships until they were 27. The guys that have typically won it when they were younger, Magic, Bird, they had some veterans with them, you know, that were great players there before them. So I'm wondering is Tatum still just maturing to the point where he can actually lead a team to the playoffs? Because their inconsistency, whether there's Tatum or Brown or the team as a whole, is frustrating if you're a Celtic player. And by the way, we don't talk a lot of defense, but I thought under Aduka, they were a better defensive team. I don't think Boston, I don't think Boston, I butchered his name, I don't think Boston's as good a defensive team as last year either.

Do you? No, no, not at all. I mean, Missoula tried to make them more of an offensive team. And then, you know, at points in the season, they started to show, oh, they still have that defense. So they have some great defenders. Al Horford did a great job on NB, Derek White, Mark, and Smart. They have great defenders, so I think they feel like when we need it, we can turn on the defense. But they try to play offense.

And last night, look, if you're a Celtics fan, there are things to look at. One, your team does this periodically. They just play without a sense of urgency. We saw it against Philly. We saw it against Atlanta. We saw it last year at times during the playoffs. And they bounced back. secondly, Miami shot 51% from three.

Miami was the fourth worst three-point shooting team in the league in the regular season. Now, they've shot it well in the playoffs, but they're not, they had to have an uncharacteristically spectacular three-point shooting performance, and Boston shot 34% well below their average, and they only took 29, which they shoot as many threes as anybody in the league. Credit Miami for running them off the three-point line, but still, Boston, those are two extremely uncharacteristic things for both teams, and it still was a seven-point game. So I think Boston, look, they pretty much got a win game, too, and I think they will.

Eme Udoka, that's better. I've butchered that thing. Once a week. Okay, let's go Lakers tonight. So I kind of defended the Lakers after they lost the first game. I said, first of all, I watched Minnesota's first game in that series. They got boxed. I watched Phoenix go to Denver and get rolled.

Lakers had a great second half. I think Darwin Ham now has fallen into underappreciated category. I think he is a game-to-game, a terrific adjust coach. And I thought he had a terrific adjustment at halftime. I think Darwin Ham, I think the Lakers found a really, really good young coach. So I watched the second half of that game. And the second half of that game, I'm like, this is going to be a close series. and I

the spread is five points tonight. I kind of like the Lakers tonight. Do you think they solved any of the riddles in that second half? Yeah, look, I picked the Lakers in seven so I'm with you. I think they win tonight. It's not over if they don't, but it's just hard to beat another excellent team

four out of five games. Look, when they put Rui Hachamura on Yokic and then Anthony Davis on Aaron Gordon and allowed Davis to roam, that clearly bothered Yonkers, right? When he gets in the paint on Hachamora, A.D. was right there to disturb him. He didn't hit any field goals that quarter, and he had two turnovers, one of them because of Davis. And so they did find that, but the thing is Denver's going to adjust too.

And Michael Malone doesn't adjust as much in games. He'll adjusts in between games. You mentioned Darvaham, and you're right, great job of adjusting during games. started small, which turned out to be a mistake. Yeah. But he quit, you know, the half, or not the half, but later in the game, he got away from that and found something. I bet

they start Hatchamura the night. Yes. Now, what Denver's going to do, Colin, is they will probably put Aaron Gordon, or if it's Jeff Green in there, at the three point line a lot. So try to get Davis away from the rim. Yeah. They'll do dribble handoffs with Yokish. They'll do pick and rolls

with Yolkish to either get AD in the pick, you know, to switch, or get him away from the rim. So they're both going to make some adjustments. But yeah, that's something the Lakers can certainly do. Or here, this is interesting, Colin. If you start out tonight and Yokic is chewing you up, whether he's scoring or assisting or both.

Do you just say, you know what? Let's just single cover him with whoever, whether it's AD or Rui or whoever. single covering him and if he gets 47 fine he had 53 and 10 against Phoenix and they lost where he eats you up is he's going to get 30 something

but he's also going to get the 10 assist and get his other guys going so that's something you might want to think about not you're not giving him 50 but do you single covering him and if he gets 45 or 50 maybe you can live with that if you shut down everybody else

okay I got to ask you this because you got to prepare for your show. But J. Mack and I have talked about this. He thinks you should trade Damian Lillard. My takeaway is I think they should move the number three pick because very rarely do you get a draft where you get a Mello, a D. Wade and LeBron in it, that's one of the great drafts ever. And even Mello didn't win much as much as we thought. De Wade and LeBron teamed up their legends. But if you can get two great stars in a draft, if Victor Wembeñama is the star we think and Scoot Henderson is the star they think, there's a chance there's not going to be a third star in this draft, even if he is a star like Tatum, who was a great NBA player, we're six years

without a title. So my takeaway is move the pick. If you're the three or four pick, move the pick if you've got an aging star. J. Mack wants to move Dame. Where do you land on Portland reportedly giving up the number three pick? Well, Colin, it pains me to say this. I don't think I've ever said this on the national airwaves. I'm with J. Mack on this one. I mean, look, you You said it. You and I aren't the only one knows that who's the third guy? He might not be a star. So what is another team?

What team is giving up a star for that third pick? Like a real star that can help Dame. And remember, to make salaries match, you might have to give up Anthony Simons, who's a nice young player or Yusef Nurkich. So I just don't see the move out there. Because remember, a contender that's got some stars, they're not really going to be interested in the third pick. A young team that's building, what do they have to give you?

They might have a star that's not leading them to win. So what's he going to do with Dame? So I actually, look, I know I respect and admire Dame's loyalty and also the Blazers because they're being loyal to him. But I think for both of them, it is best to move on. And I think, like, Kevin Garnett didn't want to leave Minnesota. But when he finally got to Boston, won the championship, played a few more years, had great success.

he said, man, it's the best thing that ever happened in my career. Dame will feel that way. If Dame gets traded to a good situation, I don't know that this could happen, but say Philly, and he plays with Embed, and they can do damage, I think Dame would realize, you know what, this is the move. And Dame gets major respect. He's a top 75 player of all time. Yeah. But he wants more.

And the level of respect he wants, you're not getting unless you win the championship or at least get to the finals. Yeah. And so I think he would appreciate it after the fact, and I think it'd be better for the Blazers, too. You know, there's a business aspect to it, is that the NBA ratings double, triple, quadruple in late April, May, and June. Right. And so for your shoe apparel, for your record career, what happens is not only is Dame geographically isolated in Portland, he's not on TV enough in May and June. Right. So if he went to a contender, his shoe.

shoe business would be better, his music business. Because the NBA, we all know this, the regular season ratings, nobody's, you know, it's this small. All of a sudden, they explode the last two months. So to me, if I was his agent, I'm like, Dame. This is why guys play in the Olympics. Because the ratings are huge. You can sell your shoes.

I would get Dame to go somewhere, not tucked in the corner of the country, and get him on television in May and June, shoes, music. I mean, he's a wonderful guy. I think for business at this point, Dame should be a tad selfish, and the next 10 years be like, you know, the little bit of that mogul stage, because he's going to the hall.

We know that. All right. Chris Broussard agreed with J. Mack. I'm going to have to sleep on that tonight. I'm a little unsettled. Me too. You're not the only one. I'm wondering what's going on.

First things first. Good seeing you, buddy. All right. All right, Colin. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like, you know, I have a soft spot for the Northwest. I think Dame is really a remarkable guy. He's got a, he's like one of these guys.

You know how a lot of athletes do hip-hop stuff and they're like, yeah, whatever. And then like, Dame does it. And you're like, oh, yeah, that's pretty good. And then, you know, he's got, he could be a boxing analyst. You could put Dame in a boxing broadcast. And he's got a shoe business. It's like he needs to be on that eight-week television show called the NBA playoffs.

Because there's guys that aren't close to Dame that are. are and their Instagram's flowing and their shoes are selling and their it's like dames missing out that's why stars give up their off season to go because their agents go go play in the Olympics it's a shoe deal it's an endorsement deal you get your face on TV everybody the Olympic ratings are gigantic be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on fox sports radio FS1 and the iHeart radio app. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb.

The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches, we talk to players, we tell you stories. You download

it, you listen to it, I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard,

but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

Follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Saturday, the USFL kicks off at 4 Eastern on Fox as the Birmingham Stallions take on the Michigan Panthers.

And Sunday at noon Eastern, the New Orleans Breakers battle the Philadelphia stars on FS1. Then it's the New Jersey Generals against the Houston gamblers at 4 on Fox. By the way, top of next hour, we're going to have the ultimate, I don't really do this much. Ultimate sports debate. It's fascinating because J. Mack came out and said, I'd rather be Jimmy Butler than Clay Thompson. And my argument is it makes sense because if you're all into titles, you know, Robert Orie's got seven. Now, Clay's better than Robert Orry, but they used to call him Big Shot Bob. Nobody talks about him.

In 20 years, you're not going to talk about Clay Thompson. He's never been the best player in a team. Mostly wasn't the second best player on the championship teams. Iggy got an MVP. KD got a couple. Steph got him. People are going to talk about this team. They're going to talk about Steph Dremon.

They're going to talk about the KD years. They'll like Clay and Clay has been terrific. But whose career would you want? Butler, who's got three or four years left at a high level, Butler is going to go down as a legend. And even if he doesn't win, you're going to be like best player, best playoff guy to never win a championship. Butler will be in that discussion at a bar in 20 years.

You're not going to be talking about Clay Thompson. And so top in a game. Next hour, there's a couple of examples in the NFL and NBA that I'll throw at you. You can make up your mind. You can go to social media, but it is interesting. But first, J. Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. So the Phoenix Suns, after they got bounced by Denver, a lot of talk. Oh, Chris Paul's probably not going to be back. His contract is not fully guaranteed. Well, according to Bleacher reports, Chris Haynes, the Sons are now likely to guarantee his full contract for next season. And the mindset is that he will be their starting point guard. Colin, I don't know if we should believe this or not. Because if you do that, if you bring back Chris Paul,

A, you know he's going to get hurt in the playoffs he does every year. And B, the only way to improve the roster, which is inferior, is trading D'Andre Ait. I think they'll do that. Well, you have to do that, but remember what the Lakers did at the deadline. They move Pat Bev and they move Russ. They bring in Jared Vanderbilt, DeAngelo Russell, Louis Hachimura. They got pieces that fit. And now the Lakers have a good roster.

I don't see why you're bringing back Chris Paul. It just doesn't make sense. I'll play devil's advocate because he'll give you $50 a game with tennisists, shoot 48% and he's top. If you limit him to 50 games and you just say, we're going to play you about half the game, but I get your leadership and he gets along with Booker. He gets along with Durant.

Aitin doesn't get along with anybody. And so what you're saying is Aiton's not great at anything. Chris Paul's leadership, his basketball IQ, his, I mean, Chris brings a lot to the table even when he's done on the floor. He's a Hall of Famer. So if you give me, he and his backup, I get the young kid behind him that plays, we'll play more. Jack Landale. Well, that's a big, but I'm talking the kid behind Chris Paul.

Oh, Cameron Payne. Cam Payne. So Cam's going to play more. So I got Cam and Chris holding down the four at point. I got a star at two. I got a star at a four. And then, then I move Aiton. Aidan's got to market.

He's absolutely got to market. But what I want to do is I need depth. So I can give you, I'll give you Aiton. I need a couple dudes. I got to fortify my bench. I can take a big that's not as good as Aiton offensively but better defensively. Or somebody better defensively, not as good. The problem with Aiton is, what is he great at?

He's a good player. He's a good body. But I think what you need is a defensive big. Because Booker and Durant, I'll get my 30. I got to have a rim protector. Aiton gives you size, but he's not very good defender. So like a Robert Williams of Boston. You can't get him, but he's like the ideal

Rimrunner. Brooke Lopez. He's 35. I know, but I, Brooke Lopez. He could probably, he's probably going to be out of Phoenix's price range. Right? He can make a lot of money. Well, if you're trading Aidan, he makes a lot of money.

You can't, you can't go to, how about a Brooke Lopez and a bench player? We'll see what they can get for Aiton. I just don't think it's going to be very easy for Phoenix to retool quickly. I know Brooke Lopez, though, is elite at a couple of things. And you're basically going into the next season with two, of your three players high level injury risks. Kevin Duran has been hurt a lot in recent years. He's great. Chris Paul has hurt every damn year. Well, again, I think they're a tweet, not a rebuild. I think they've got to get a, they have to fortify their, they have to get a couple of guys

off the bench who can shoot, and I think they have to move Aiton and get somebody, either give me, they don't need offense. Give me a rim protector defensively. I don't care if he gives me nine points a game and 12 rebounds. I want three blocks. I want a tough guy in the hole who doesn't need the ball. All right, let's move to the Sixers. Obviously, they fired Doc Rivers earlier this week. Well, team president, Daryl Morey knows the search is going to be difficult. Here's what he had to say about Philly's upcoming head coaching search. We're taking a careful process with the coach. We do not think it will move quickly. I know I have to be careful with the process word, but it is, it is true. We're looking for someone who brings leadership.

accountability, someone who is good at tactics, someone who has great relationship with his star players and who someone who is good at recruiting star players and players want to play for, someone who builds a great organization. Nick Nurse. Yeah, good luck finding that. Nick Nurse. What, you don't like Nick Nurse? Is Nick Nurse taking this job when he doesn't know James Hardin's future? There's a lot of questions. That's why it's going to be slow. You got to move off James. All right. Final story. Anthony Richardson,

fourth overall pick in the draft showing flashes of his unique characteristics. Here's what Gardner Minchu had to say about the rookies. I mean, the first thing is just how impressive, you know, like the ballast jumps out of his hand, you know, physically everything, like got everything you want. You know, so from that standpoint, just seeing him as like, wow, this dude's really got a chance, you know. And then, you know, getting around him and seeing, you know, how he works, how he, you know, takes criticism. and wants to learn and get better. All those things are really, really encouraging to be around. He'll be fun to watch play. He's very, very raw,

but he's one of those guys I want to watch play. Colts will be have a better record than the Texans this year. Absolutely not. That'll be a head-to-head for us. We're up to 13 steak dinners. Jay Mack with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Hurd-Lie News. Okay, we got a lot to talk about. I haven't even gotten into some of the best stuff today. I got all sorts of notes here. This show is rolling. baby. Lakers Nuggets tonight, game two. It's the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert. Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Bo Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.