The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - Alan Shipnuck Details Phil Mickelson's Gambling Habits

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

More on the NFL preseason as Week 1 continues.Guests: Geoff Schwartz, Alan ShipnuckSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app

by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Jeff Schwartz, Fox Sports Analyst, eight NFL seasons. Brother of Mitchell Schwartz, great offensive lineman. Okay, you live in the Carolinas. It's Bryce Young. I think he was the best college quarterback. They're my shock team in the NFL.

I think they're going to win their division. Nobody else does. What are you hearing? What do you expect? I don't know why no one would pick him to win the division. If you look at the quarterback situation, it's second best in this division, and look at their roster defensively really good, and they bring over a fantastic defensive coordinator.

The offensive line has a lot of young pieces that are pretty good. They have enough skill position to make it work, but it's up to Bryce Young staying healthy. All the things we knew about him in Alabama, great study habits, great pre-snap, great post-nap. All those things are true in Carolina. It's just a matter of health. It's can he stay healthy the first week of the season

when a 330-pound defect to tackle falls on his shoulder. Is he going to stay healthy? That's my only concern with him. Otherwise, he's hitting every marks. I was told in the off-season program he was changing plays in line of scrimmers. He was like a veteran already. He's doing all the things that he was in Alabama. We know those things are true.

They showed all the time on his film. The question for me, Colin, it's just health. If he stays healthy, I'm with you. I pick Carolina, I believe, to win the division as well because I think they're the most talented team if Bryce Young can stay healthy all season long. Yeah, no, I like him a lot. So Eric B. Enemy was in Kansas City for years, but I've said the question is always, and you see this in companies.

You got Andy Reid, Brett Veach, Mahalms, you don't know how much is really him, right? You see this with companies. Executives will leave a great company, go out on their own, and they don't do anything. You see it in bands. A guy leaves a band, goes out in his own, nobody buys the records. So I look at Eric B. Enemy, he's at Washington. A story comes out this week. The players are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, he's too harsh.

He's too intense. a little connection to Kansas City. Are you surprised by the story? What do you make of it? I'm not surprised by the story because everyone who's played with Eric B. I mean, he was the running back coach when I was there for a year. My brother was there five years. He's an intense coach. He's an intense guy. He's a passionate football coach. The question is whether that translates to good offensive design, to good play calling, to gain the best from his players. There have been plenty coaches in all in all walks of sports that are very intense individuals. Does that translate to being a teacher, right?

So if he goes to Washington and the offense is good and Sam Howell plays good, it doesn't matter how intense he is. If the intensity takes away from being able to teach and being able to coach and get his players better, that's what you have the problem. Right now, we don't know because they haven't played any games yet. And it's really tough to judge him, in my opinion, with Sam Hal's quarterback, right? They're not giving him an opportunity. And obviously, he knew what he was doing when he signed there.

But Sam Hal is the fourth worst quarterback in the division, right? He's worse in the division? Like, what are they going to do with Sam Hal that makes you feel great about the offense. So to me, it's not about the intensity or whether it's whether or not that intensity is hurting his ability to coach up as players and get him in the right position to be successful on Sundays. All right. So the Jets had a practice against Carolina. This was probably pretty big news where you live and it was choppy. They don't have their, they don't have their tackle settled. I mean, you know this from your brother. When the Chiefs went to a Super Bowl,

Mahomes got, you know, unraveled and Mahomes doesn't get unraveled. If you're a, you don't have your tackles right. Older quarterback. Aaron doesn't want to run anymore. His numbers have gone down, running attempts, running yards. I think it's the season. You tell me, have you ever entered a season in near eight years when you're unsettled, unsure, especially at tackle?

And then seven weeks in, you're like, we got the Cowboys five years ago online. Not often. It happens sometimes with younger offensive lines, right? you grow into the position. But that's not really what the Jets are out right now, right? Dwayne Brown's out, hasn't practiced so far. Mackay Beckton's over at left tackle. He's struggling.

He really should be the right tackle, and both right tackles in competition are struggling. And they're talking about moving their best player, Elijah Vera Tucker, who only played seven games last year, back out to tackle, then you have to fill in another guy. I mean, you're playing these musical chairs. Like, you don't want to do that. You don't want to have to move your best office alignment

to fill a hole somewhere else, because now, ideally, you have two positions of, weakness, right? Mackay Beckett's not going to play left tackle unless Dwayne Brown's out. And if Dwayne Brown comes back, then Mackay has had no reps of right tackle. They're just kind of in a bad shape right now with this offensive line shuffle. And there's less practice time now, right? There's less opportunity to work through some of these issues that you had an opportunity to do many, many years ago. Now, guys have adapted to that obviously. They've changed the way that they're able to prepare and they do a lot more in the off season. But it'd be

concerned basically three weeks from being finalized that your left tackles out. You're talking about moving your best offense line. Your backup left tackle hasn't been good. Who's supposed to play right tackle for you? Your right tackles haven't been great like this. It's not a good operation when you have all these moving parts three weeks and four of the season. So I don't know how they

settle in. But Dwayne Brown coming back would certainly make things a lot better because then you would leave a lot of Zavar Tucker guard. You have three options of right tackle. You have Dwayne Brown, who's as steady as they come, settle in at that position. So his health, I think, will determine how this offensive line turns One more NFL question.

I believe because starters are playing less in the preseason and we have one fewer preseason game that practices mean more. You don't get a lot of one versus ones. And Dak had a practice this week with three picks, two of them awful. And I'm like, it's something. He led the league last year and missed four starts. Zeeks gone. O lines, Zach Martin's holding out. bringing in and, you know, now Mike McCarthy's the play caller.

I know it's a hot take, but I think it's something, isn't it? It's probably something, but I will remind everyone that in 2018, there was a headline about two weeks in a training camp that Patrick Mahomes has known two many receptions. He threw six or seven in one day, and obviously he won the MVP that year and through 50 touchdown. So obviously I'm not comparing, I think Mahomes and Dak Prescott, but in training camp, you are working through a couple of things, right? You're trying to work on certain things.

There's times I've seen some of the interceptions where, you know, the place sort of dead. He's just kind of heaving up there and maybe not the best decision or decision he will not make an actual game, but he'll be on the ground, which is also a concern for the Cowboys without Zach Martin. If you watch all these clips, they're going to miss Zach Marner if he doesn't play. But I think it's not nothing, right? It's not nothing. Like he shouldn't be throwing as many as he does. But some of these are just sort of late in the down.

That one's pretty bad. Some of them are bad. but I'm not as concerned about it as I think most are, but the Zach Martin thing is real. Jerry Jones, you need to pay Zach Martin, man. You need to get to these. He's a Hall of Fame offensive linemen in the prime of his career. Give him a few more dollars.

Like, get it done. Listen to that. Listen to the offensive line guy. He's stumping for Zach Martin. Finally, you're a PAC 12 guy, Oregon duck guy. I have said, I thought the conference died about five years ago outside of three or four programs. And the bottom line is, if the Big Ten's offering you $70 million a year, the SEC is offering you $70 million,

and the Pac-12 gives you $25.30, I'm an athletic director. Football pays for everything. If I can get three times the money, I'm going to the Big Ten. I'm excited for the matchups. Are you bothered as a former player? How does it land for you? Well, so I grew up a UCLA fan of from Los Angeles and went to Oregon.

And I love the regionality of college football, right? is regionally, I love the Pactiol of Conference, and they've certainly made a lot of mistakes. They're very much a fault for what's happening. But nationally, you were correct. The matchups are incredible, right? You might have a weekend when you have Penn State and Oregon play and Michigan and USC play,

and the nightcap is Alabama, Texas in a conference game. Like, you're going to have much better games, but the regionality of the sport is gone. And I don't play in Oregon all for leaving, right? It's the play for the future. You're getting half a share now, but a full share in 2030. and the linear TV deal is part of this as well. You want to be on Fox.

You want to be an ESPN. You want to be an NBC CBS. So I don't fault any team for having to move. I'm sad at God here. But this has been a 12-year process, right? Not getting Texas, Oklahoma, the Pact 12 network deal fiasco, not putting PATHood network on certain TV providers, not selling Pact 12 network. A lot of it comes to a Pact 12 network, like not expanding two years ago.

So it's been a long process and it's been drawn out. It's been a year now for Oregon. in Washington to figure this out. I haven't loved it. It's weird to see the Big Ten Network put out a tweet saying like, hey, look at Oregon's uniforms from the last season. They'll be in the Big Ten next season. And the worst part, Colin about all of this, and you know this as well, this is the best the Pac-12 might ever be in a season. They are having incredible teams this year with amazing quarterbacks. They're going to go in the NFL. And we're talking about what conference they're going to play in two years. Yeah. Jeff Schwartz. Good seeing you, buddy. He's got a little Oregon green

shade. A little more two lane than Oregon, but a little green there. Good seeing you, my man. I got the helmet. Thank you. There you go. Very, very nice. Jeff Schwartz. Yeah, I always said this. In my business, regionality is not good for syndicated radio. Baseball's regional. Nobody in San Diego cares about the twins. Nobody in Cleveland cares about the A's. In the NFL, people in Cleveland will watch the Eagles and the Chargers, right? And the Texans. That's just the reality of the NFL. The NFL is not regional. So regionality is bad and college football has become incredibly parochial and regional. And I think now it becomes less so because you have all these West Coast brands going into this massive Midwest conference. And so the Midwest will watch the West. The West will watch

the Midwest. The South will watch all of it. And I can't wait. Thanks for listening to the Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio and noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local. station for the herd at fox sports radio.com or stream us live every day in the iHeart radio app by searching fox sports radio or fsr. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was

having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you're. need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. And, yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black. people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here is Ryan with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Ben Rathusberger won a Super Bowl in his second season with the Steelers, and he knows that if Pittsburgh has any aspirations at a

playoff run. It will all come down to Kenny Pickett's growth and performance in his second season. Here's what Big Ben had to say on his football and podcast. The key is going to be Kenny Pickett. Can he still continue to lead the team and grow, which I've heard nothing but great things about what he's done this year. So far, audible and changing plays, making things happen. So how will he go? What will happen when he faces a defensive coordinator, a Dick LaBoe that, There are no Dick LeBos anymore, but a Dick Leboe defense coordinator that says, okay, I'm not going to let you beat me this time.

So he's going to kind of be the catalyst to, I think, how the team goes. He's going to have to have a big second year. And same thing with George. You like the Steelers this year. I like their roster a lot. If you just took the Ravens and the Steelers, the Browns and the Bengals, and every division played every other division, there's an argument. the AFC North would kick everybody's butt. I mean, you have everything in that division.

My only question is, it's going to be close. It's going to come down to week 15, 16, 17. Can they finally get the run game with Najee Harris and that O line and that offensive coordinator? They made a couple of additions to the O line. They drafted a player, added someone, added a guard and free agency. So if you can, if Kenny Pickett gets a reasonable, a top 12, -ish run game, they're a handful. Because that defense, they just doubled down into this offseason.

Sure. And another big factor for the Steelers at the end of last season was, basically if T.J. Watt was healthy and on the field, they were winning games. So hopefully if you get a full season out of T.J. Watt, that'll mean good things once again for that tough Steelers defense. Earlier this offseason, Tyreek Hill spoke about breaking Calvin Johnson's single season receiving yards record, saying he will crack 2,000 yards. Now, Tyreek is doubling down, and he explained how he can achieve this record setting mark.

Here's what he had to say. Man, I just believe, man, just the quarterback play that we have is amazing. You know, as you can see, man, Tua has been delivering. I feel like all training count, man. And the way that, you know, our head coach and our OC design plays for us is ridiculous. So my job is really easy. I just got to stay healthy. I just got to keep my attention to detail

and just know where to be at on the field at all times for my quarterback. And I'd be able to make those plays to get where I want to be at, which is 2K, man. Can't wait. We'll take a look here at some of the record-breaking seasons, top receivers for a single season. And obviously Calvin Johnson's at the top. Cooper Cup, Julio Jones, Jerry Rice, Antonio Brown.

Did any of those guys have Jalen Waddle on the other side? I think a lot of that, now Mike Gaseki's gone, but they have a thousand-yard receiver on the other side. And also, it's something to think about. With Tua, I think they'd like to establish a little bit more of a run game. You don't want Tua throwing 42 times. So if you're trying to establish, I think Tarek's going to have a lot of over-the-top plays and a lot of touchdowns. but they don't want to be a 43 throw-a-game team with two as concussion issues. So they're going to try to develop a run game, peel back a little.

I don't know if it's a great pass-blocking line and waddles on the other side. So I think he's a great player, but I don't see 2,000 yards. And also, I would say in his division is Soss Gardner. I mean, the Bills have a great corner. The Patriots' strength of their team, their secondaries always good, and the Jets have two good corners and one superstar. So the 2,000 yards doesn't feel right to me. Yeah, I mean, you would need everything to go right with the dolphins,

most notably Tua staying healthy the entire season, which there's a huge question about that. And even so, if they're doing that and winning as many games as we expect them to win if Tua stays healthy, they're likely not throwing the ball as much as we would think because they'll have a lead and want to run out the clock, and we'll wrap up with this. Chris Jones and the Chiefs have yet to come to a long-term agreement

as the defensive tackle continues his holdout, the latest report comes from the athletic, saying Kansas City is unwilling to make Jones the league's highest paid defensive tackle. Jones is reportedly looking to become the second highest paid player at the position behind Aaron Donald. His current deal makes him the eighth highest paid tackle. Let's take a look at these recent deals. You have Aaron Donald at the top, followed by Quinn and Williams, Jeffrey Simmons, Daron Payne, Dexter Lawrence, DeForest Buckner, Javon Hargrave, and then Chris Jones. The gap there. You have. is he's at 20 million per season.

Aaron Donald at the top at 31.7 million. Yeah, I mean, when you pay your quarterback big money, it's hard to start a sort of line up. I mean, I do feel like if you had to pay three players on your roster, you could do worse or four. Quarterback, left tackle, weapon, and dominating defensive line presence. And then just go really young on the rest of the defense,

which the chiefs. are. So, I mean, the chiefs are doing a very good job. They're paying the right positions. Quarterback, great weapon, Chris Jones, and a couple of their own linemen. That's where I would spend my money. Now, they bailed on a really good corner. I think corner tends to be overrated. That's just me. I think that I think you can win without great corners. I think if you have a great defensive line, your corners are automatically better. So I don't think you have to be great at linebacker safety. So the chiefs will figure it out. Like, you're not going to let Chris Jones in his prime go. You're not.

Yeah, and I think that what the Chiefs have made clear, especially with the way they structured Mahomes' contract, is they want to continue to have as much flexibility as possible so that they can continue to adjust that roster to extend this winning window as long as they can. I mean, you know, Travis Kelsey has been in the league a long time. He's still elite, but how many more years does he have? And they know at some point they're going to have to address that

as much as they've had to rebuild the offensive line, rebuild the defense, rebuild the receiving core. So I'm sure that they love Chris Jones, but they also don't want to be cash-strapped so that that way they can't continue to contend year over year. Good stuff. Ryan with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly News.

Well, Alan Shipnuck is a tall golf writer, and there's a new book out on Phil Mickelson. Wild gambling stories and exploits will address that. Look at the preseason schedule in the NFL. Well, tonight, it's a good one, six games, five really giving us a clue on what to expect with young quarterbacks. Live in LA, it's The Herd. Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to three eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsR.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

Listen to comeback stories. I'm Darren Waller. You may know me best as a tied-in for the New York Giants. You may also know me for my story of overcoming addiction and alcoholism. You may have heard a few of my tracks as an artist or a producer. You may have seen the work that I've done through my foundation. And you may know my friend and co-host, Donnie Starkins as well. He's a mindfulness teacher, a yoga instructor, a life coach, a man fully invested in seeing people reach their fullest potential. And we've come to form this platform of comeback stories to really highlight not only our own adversity, but adversity in the lives of well-known guests with amazing stories. Catch us every week on comeback stories on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashed.

reaching human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye

They said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, there is a fascinating new book out called gambler. It's by the greatest and a living legend sports gambler, probably in American history,

Billy Walters. Alan Shipnuck, and in that book, The Exploits, Habits and Issues of Phil Mickelson's gambling past. It does read, I've been told, a little bit like there's a score to settle, but Alan Shipnuck has read the book. He's an esteemed golf writer. We'll get more into his book on Phil in a second. So you read it. It does feel like because, you know, Walters ended up in prison. Is it a score to settle or do you buy many of the claims? Both, actually. I mean, clearly Billy Walters has issues with Phil Mickelson.

He's honest about that. You know, they were great friends and Billy was Phil's mentor. And that has been destroyed. And, you know, Billy's contention is that if Phil had testified at the insider trading case, that ultimately sent Walters to jail, that he might have been able to get off. It's questionable. I mean, Phil was never charged with a crime.

He was sort of adjacent to what was happening in insider trading, but it's really between Billy Walters and this guy named Tom Davis. I'm not sure that Phil could have saved him, but Billy thinks that he could have and that Phil would not even get up on the stand and try when they were close friends and business partners. Billy will never forgive him for that. So yes, there's an element of revenge. in this book. But at the same time, everything Billy's ever said about Phil is checked out.

And I vetted it. Lots of Simon Schuster lawyers for this book, vetted it. There's, I think he's shooting straight here, but you do have to take it with a grain of salt because there is a lot of bitterness there. Um, listen, Phil's, I heard this two decades ago when I was working in Vegas. I heard like, oh, Mickelson's a huge gambler. He's a whale. And they don't call you a goldfish. They call you a whale because you swallow stuff. And he's just, I mean, food, wine, gambling. His style on the course was risky. You know, Phil, you wrote a book called Phil incredibly, redeemably consumable.

It's a fascinating book. I loved it. Read it in a day. And my takeaway is, I know I'm supposed to be offended by these stories and these exploits. And he gambled, you know, a billion dollars. And then I think to myself or whatever it was, Phil, Alan, I'm not. not shocked by it. I'm not, why am I not bothered by it? Well, it's always been part of Phil's brand. As you say, he was known to love Vegas. He famously made that bet on the Ravens to win the

Super Bowl and cashed half a million dollars. That was 20 years. It's, you know, so it's always been part of his identity. And of course, it's the way he played the game, you know, high risks, high stakes, crash and burn. And that's why he won a lot of tournaments and why he lost a lot of tournaments. And so it's not a shock that Phil loves to gamble. We've known this forever. I think what's impactful from Billy's book is he has the receipts. He has the numbers. He was a meticulous record keeper.

And to know that Mickelson, you know, wagered a billion dollars with a B over the last 30 years, that's a lot of money. And, you know, it's remarkable because it's always been this belief that's, play golf at the highest level. You have to have this clear mind. And players have talked about when they were going through things off the course that affected their golf. But Phil, and also for that matter, Tiger Woods is a master compartmentalizer because there was so much happening. And Billy doesn't get into this in his book. I got into it in mind. There were these really shady characters that were adjacent to Phil Mickelson because of the gambling. There was this D. Don character in Detroit who was mobbed up. I was this guy Greg Silvera who wound up going to jail for wire fraud and tax evasion

stuff related to a case with Phil Mickelson. There's, you know, obviously Billy Walters went to jail. I mean, Phil was driving around an SUV with bulletproof glass. What golfer needs bulletproof glass? And so the scale of the gambling raises questions. Like, did he get in over his head? Like, how desperate did he become? How did this affect him and his life and his career? And so that's why it's impactful. And then you come to the revelation from from Billy Walters that, you know, on the eve of the 2012 Riter Cup, Phil called and wanted to place a bet on a tournament in which he was competing. Right. And of course that, yeah, and even though he wanted to bet on his own team, that very same concept got Pete Rose Band for Life from baseball. So that's a serious

accusation, which, you know, yesterday Phil came out and denied, said, he never bet on the Ryder Cup, but he didn't deny the phone call. He didn't deny asking Billy to make the bet. It speaks to his frame of mind. I mean, the Ryder Cup is the most pressure-packed event in golf. There is enough juice and enough energy in the Ryder Cup. But if you have to put money on it to bring your energy level up in your adrenaline and your engagement, like that's a red flag.

So you're right. Phil's always had this persona. And for some people, and I've been all over Twitter the last two days, some folks say, oh, I love Phil Moore now because you're reading these stories, you know, and that's fine. You know, sports gambling has become a huge part of our society. No one's really going to condemn you anymore for gambling. But the size of the bets and the Ryder Cup story, that takes it in a slightly different direction. Okay.

So let me, I'm not going to defend them on Ryder Cup. That's the one that obviously people are upset about. But there's no purse. It's for bragging rights. And he's a boxer. I consider boxers and golfers, independent contractors. The PGA, in fact, was a charity. So it's not Mahomes betting in the NFL where you have teammates and a commissioner,

well, you have a commissioner, teammates and coaches and an owner. And golfers have always been independent contractors. And Phil never liked his commissioner or the sport. He never felt he was given kind of his just, right? And so it doesn't feel. And Ryder Cup's not a major. It's bragging rights. So I know what's bad.

And I know golf is the general. and sport and everybody in golf disagrees with me. But I do feel like there's a difference between betting the Masters or the U.S. Open and the Ryder Cup. Why am I wrong? Well, the Ryder Cup, you do have teammates who are counting on you and you're representing the whole of the United States. So you could argue that there's more weight on the Ryder Cup and there's more importance

and that you are a representative, not just of yourself, but your team, your captain, and your fellow Americans. if you're going to mess around with the Ryder Cup, he's sort of messing with all of us on some level. So, you know, it's an interesting thing. And there's a strain of field defenders out there who said, well, he was betting on his team to win. Nothing's wrong with that.

And that's possibly true. But we don't know what other bets he may have had. And we don't know how that pressure affected him. And when you go back to that 2012 Rider Cup, it's been talked about for over a decade now. Phil was paired with Keegan Bradley, and they were destroying the Europeans. They went three and O, and they were on Saturday morning. They won their match seven and six.

They barely played half a round of golf. But Phil asked to sit out that afternoon, which was a shocker. They were the hottest team for the American side. You would just throw them out there and let him keep going, especially after having a stress-free morning round. But Phil wanted to sit, and he did, along with Keegan, and Europe kind of wrapped. rallied right at the end of that Saturday afternoon session and it gave him a huge amount of momentum going into singles and they pulled off the next day, the miracle at Medina and Phil's lost loomed very large and singles to Justin Rose. And so if Phil wants to bet on the Ryder Cup and he's so

confident, let's just as a thought exercise, what if you made a bet with somebody else? He said, I'm putting a million dollars on me to win my singles match. Yeah. And what if that caused him to go to Captain Davis-Lauvin say, I need to be fresh for singles tomorrow. Rest me this afternoon. And then that afternoon session, Europe got momentum. They carried it into the singles. They won the Ryder Cup. So it's like you just, the same thing with Pete Rose.

Like was he managing differently because he had big money on a particular game? Like was he burning up his bullpen? Was he pushing his starters too hard? Like you're trying to win. But if you're trying to win at all costs and you change the way you're playing the game, you're managing the game, you can argue. you that even though you're betting on yourself, it's having a, it's having a ripple effect. And so, you know, these are all ifs. We don't know if Phil had any bets or not. He says he didn't. So we have to take that at face value in the absence of any other evidence. But it just, it speaks to his frame of mind. If he wanted that action, if he needed that action, it does make you question. What do we not know? Yeah. Yeah, this is what we know from Gambler by Billy Walters. Okay, Alan Shepnock's got two golf books. He got,

author of nine books. Phil, the rip-roaring, unauthorized biography of golf's most colorful superstars about Phil. We show that one. Go buy that one. In October, he's got Live, Live Tour, live and let die the inside story of the war between the PGA Tour and the Live Golf. You know, with all this, every time I talk to you, there's more Phil exploits. You may have to push the October to December and make it a Christmas gift, because Phil is the gift that keeps on giving in golf, but he's Alan Chipnuck. He's a golf writer. He's a golf writer. He's also a partner in the fire, Pitt Collective, a golf media company. It's always a pleasure.

You take time. You're covering golf this week. And you know, Alan, I love your work and I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Colin. I appreciate it. You bet. So, you know, he brings up a very good point. And maybe I'm being too glib about it.

But, you know, if he asked somebody to bet on the Ryder Cup and Billy said, no, did he have other side bets? It's a very, very good point. That's why I asked the question. But I've just always sort of framed golfers as boxers. Even if you were a downhill skier, you're generally part of an Olympic team at some point. I guess Ryder Cup, you're part of an ever-changing American team. But he made good points there.

Phil Mickelson's fascinating. I know I'm spending a lot of time on Phil Mickelson in the last several months, but in the absence of Tiger Woods, I mean, it's Brooks Kepka, Rory McElroy, Phil Mickelson. kind of drive golf. He's, to me, endearing and certainly enduring. And he's always interesting. When you can sell golf books like Phil, there's a reason. He's interesting.

All right. We'll see you next week. Jay Max's back. He went on a beautiful vacation. Just talked to him the other day. He's doing great with his fam. He's coming back. Thank you, Ryan, for as always being more than capable.

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