The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-HOUR-3-Chris Paul, Lakers, Mo Dakhil

Episode Date: September 1, 2020

Doug talks getting over the hump of adversity and how difficult that can be, especially in the playoffs.Mo Dakhil joins the show to talk about how Chris Paul is a better playoff performer then Russell Westbrook, Lakers having one up on whom ever their next opponent is, do to being able to rest. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up?

Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be. And however you may be making this part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb. In for Colin Cowherd. They often imitate it, but never duplicate it, duplicated, duplicated, duplicate it, Colin Cowherd.

Thanks so much for making this part of your day. You should point out that Colin's Saturday pod with Will Kane was really good. Very interesting. You can download that. one, the Heard Podcast Network. I also have a pod on the Heard Podcast Network called All Ball, all basketball all the time. Langston Galloway was my guest. Check that one out. All ball all the time. And the Doug Gottlieb show is weekdays after this one, three to six Eastern, 12 to three Pacific. Look, I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and be fake humble.

I don't think I do know that I know more basketball than most of you. Sorry. Actually, not sorry. I've gotten paid to cover it for almost 20 years. I played a profession. They played it in college. I grew up in a family of coaches, my dad, now my brother. So, yeah, like, I watched it a little bit differently. And I think there are players who can face adversity and fail at some point in time in their career and overcome it. I think there are guys that can overcome adversity or pressure.

for most of their career and then face some sort of stress or strain or adversity and then, you know, get the yips and never overcome it. And then I think there are guys that have always been good under pressure. We just struggle to understand that you can be a winner and maybe not win a championship because it is, in fact, a team sport. And winning is really hard. Here's what I mean. LeBron James failed his first time in the NBA playoffs, in the NBA finals. We'd agree. They play the Dallas Mavericks, and he didn't trust his jump shot.

He was super tight, and he didn't play particularly well. There's other factors in it. You know, Tyson, and credit calling, he's pointed this out, Tyson was protecting the rim. Remember, this was back when the heat started Joel Anthony as their center. there just wasn't space and he wasn't able to finish and he got a little tentative didn't trust his mid-range jump shot

there's other factors one Joel Anthony two Mike Bibby was their starting point guard he was bad so bad in games 1 through 5 he actually didn't play a minute in game 6 but if we had to sum it up for LeBron whatever was going on emotionally mentally he wasn't ready for that moment

and he choked and then the next year they took on the thunder who weren't the best team the West. They were very young but very talented and he didn't choke. And then he was kind of up and down in the Spurs series. And in fact in game six, they were

dead to rights beaten. He made some plays, but obviously Ray Allen bailed them out the most making the game tying three. And then in game seven, he was like the only one with gas in the tank and he hit a couple shots early, had great confidence. He was fantastic. And I still don't

think LeBron is, he just doesn't have the game of Jordan, Kobe, Bird, et cetera, to get his own shot other than kind of playing bully ball or shooting over guys. Some of that, some of that his mentality of one to set guys up, whatever it is.

LeBron, in most basketball players, NBA basketball, current former player's mind, is a all-time great. But he is not the alpha, give me the ball, I'm going to bring us back. I'm going to do even what Chris Paul did last night. But he has overcome those

the early career or early part of the championship run stress, strain, yips, if you will. Then there's Nick Anderson. Do you guys remember Nick Anderson? Great player at Illinois. Great guy. Nick's an awesome dude. And Nick was having an all-star caliber career in Orlando with the Magic. Playing with Shaq and Penny Hardaway. Like, that was a squad. They're playing in game one of the NBA finals.

against the Houston Rockets, and he missed four consecutive free throws, and a game they should have won, they end up losing. And Nick never really recovered. There was a guy that was great under pressure until that one moment than he wasn't. Then you have Chris Paul. And I think Chris Paul is fascinating. Fascinating. Think of all of the things in his career in which he has been through.

You know? Like this is a guy who played for the late Skip Prosser. in college and they got upset in the second round of the NCAA tournament. You know, it's like, that's a fascinating thing. Like, Chris Paul lost in the NCAA tournament. Right? They lost to West Virginia.

And so the thought is, well, Chris Paul is a choker. They couldn't even win in college. Do you guys remember that game? Right? Like, for Chris Paul to be the guy responsible for them losing, He certainly played pretty damn well. 22 points and nine assists. Did have five turnovers?

They couldn't stop anybody. They couldn't guard anybody. They couldn't guard West Virginia. And Kevin Pitznagel and Mike Gansy. Tyrone Sally. Then you go to the NBA and Chris Paul was drafted by the New Orleans Hornets. Okay. But before he plays out,

a game, Hurricane Katrina happens, and they play in Oklahoma City. So you got that as adversity. Then they were playing, you know, George Shin sells the team to league because he can't sell the team. So the league's operating it and they wanted to trade Chris Paul to the Lakers. But that trade gets nixed. This is all part of his career. You know, then he goes to the Clippers and with the Clippers, he was hurt his first three years. They had a squad, but it was a dysfunctional squad for a team that had never won before. But he led the league in assists four different times, led the league in steals six different times. He is an all-time great player.

One year with the Rockets, he pulls his hamstring in an inopportune moment. One year with the Rockets, they missed 27 straight threes. And so they don't accomplish what they thought. They don't take them to the next level. he has a huge contract. They trade him Oklahoma City. I watched him last night. Now, I know in our minds

there's more pressure in the NBA finals than there is in the first round of playoffs. But the truth is, it's not really how it works. It just isn't. When you're playing, you're just playing. And if you can handle the pressure of playing

of making shots or missing shots or making plays or taking over a game in the playoffs, when your backs against the wall. Like, I've said this about, you know, like, go and pick the player. Like, Clayton Kershaw has had unbelievable moments in the playoffs. I think it was like against the Mets.

He was nasty, back against the wall. He was dominant for the Dodgers. His issue has always been when he gets to the seventh inning against the, basically, until, you know, recently when he's lost the pop in his fastball, when he was prime Clayton, Kershaw, it was just when he get to the seventh inning. It was not like Pedro Martinez. Pedro Martinez, when he got over 100 pitches, was hitable. Before that, he was unhittable. The best

pitcher I've seen in my lifetime is Pedro Martinez. I don't think he's a choker. I just think he gets tired like anybody, like any pitcher. You get over 100 pitches and they can hit you a little bit. Last night with four minutes left, Houston was up 98-92. Chris Paul hits two threes, grabs two steals, gets two rebounds, hits two free throws. Oklahoma City ends the game on a 12-2 run to force a game set. Now, I don't know how the clutch gene works. I don't know for people who use the term clutch gene. But by my estimation, when your backs against the wall, against the team he used to play for,

and you get traded for another player, he plays poorly and you play great, how would there be any more pressure than those moments? You go back to when he was in New Orleans with the Hornets early in his career. He was great in the playoffs. wasn't surrounded by a good enough team. That's it. Go back to the 2009 playoffs. And he had some unbelievable games.

They were just outmatched by the Denver Nuggets. But I look at Chris Paul and I think he's one of those guys who's a winner that just hasn't won a championship. The circumstances sometimes dictate if you can in fact win a championship. Like it's really important to point out that had that Clippers team been put together five years previous, they probably win a championship. But because they, one, had injuries and two, the league had changed. The three-pointer, the stretching of a defense, the small ball, the thunder, the, excuse me,

the Warriors were just better for that era of basketball. So sometimes circumstances, not how good you are dictated. if you win championships. I watched Chris Paul last night, and I thought to myself, what a stud. What a tremendous player. What a tremendous player.

What a guy. I mean, just an absolute stud. And I don't know how that changes just because the round of the playoffs change. That's completely and utterly unfair and, you know, just not realistic. You don't suddenly, it's like

Aaron Rogers has had some amazing moments, like the throw in Dallas in the playoffs a couple years ago. They're down 28 to 3 against the Atlanta Falcons, much like Tom Brady was two weeks later, they don't come back. Well, Aaron Rogers is in his clutches, Tom Brady. Well, yeah, his defense couldn't get a stop.

He's surrounded by 10 other guys on offense. There's some limitations to what any one human being can do. Aaron Rogers has shown us in the biggest of situations that he can in fact pull off miracles in great place. Suddenly he forgets all of that? Of course not. Same thing goes for Eli Manning. You don't go from clutch and getting it without some sort of monumental collapse and suddenly become a guy who can't do it under pressure. I don't believe that. The premise of it is Russell Westbrook hasn't changed.

He has always been a high turnover guy, a guy that struggles to shoot. a guy who's not a great finisher around the rim, who's competitive as hell, but there's just something missing, and that get exposed in the playoffs, whereas Chris Paul hasn't really changed. He's a big shot maker. He is a tough defender.

He will stick his nose in there and rebound, and he will make the big shot in the playoffs and not have any fear over taking on that responsibility. The only difference is how you see him because of the round of the playoffs, but a lot of that's the limitations of the supporting cash. All right, coming up next. Mo Dackle will join us,

covers the NBA for Bleacher Report, get his thoughts on CP3, his thoughts on Russell Westbrook was bad last night. Not good. And I'll tell you, else wasn't great. Janus. But we've seen the Bucks

losing the first game of the playoffs previously. So, of the series, just last series, can they recover? Plus, we got game seven tonight. You haven't seen the jazz and the nuggets. You would not believe the numbers

that Jamal Murray and Donovan Mitchell are putting up. That's next, but first... Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on The Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different

intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast,

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as we continue to compile guys that are great players in all sports but are kind of hard to watch because they complain about every call. It's like the, I think we're going to have to put Derek Jeter on the list. You're like, why Derek Jeter?

I was like, do you remember how Jeter would look when he was at the plate? And there'd be a pitch that was down the middle but he wouldn't like it. He'd like throw his butt way out as if it was almost going to hit him. And he almost like bail out with his hips and lower body in an effort to show the pictures too inside,

even though it looked right down the middle. Just annoyed me. It annoyed me. And seriously, Jeech, you know, back then, did you, could you date one, seven or eight? Did they all have to be tens? It's kind of annoying. Modak Hill joins us in the herd.

He worked for the clippers and the spurs. Now he covers the NBA for Bleacher Report and the athletic. The juxtaposition last night of Russell Westbrook, who's been a league MVP, falling apart down the stretch as opposed to Chris Paul, who's one of these, by so many fans, maligned guys. How would you describe what happened on that floor in Orlando last night? Yeah, that thing. I think we sort of saw Westbrook at the end of games.

And this is something we've seen with, you know, when he was playing with Kevin Durant. It's something we're almost accustomed to if you've been to fall in the league for a long time. is Russ does have that tendency to try to take it out on his own, no matter how good his teammate is. And then when you flip it over and look at Chris Paul, you know, Chris did what Chris does and what he's done almost all his career, especially, you know, this year. He's been great in the clutch.

And the way this team structured Oklahoma, he's able, Doug, to kind of just take his foot off the gas for the first three quarters and conserve his energies. And then when they really need him, He just turns it up. And that's what we saw last night. Yeah, I tried to express it in a way in which I don't know if it hit, which is like, this guy, Chris Paul has been through an amazing amount, right?

Like, for he plays in New Orleans, they have Katrina. So he plays in Oklahoma City. Then the league owns the team. Then he gets traded. That gets rescinded. Right. But he was great when he was young in the playoffs, his first couple years. And then with the Clippers, it was a little bit of a dysfunctional mess.

the league kind of changed right before their eyes, right, where now all of a sudden, you know, you have a center who's a non-offensive player and, you know, then you have a power forward and that position's kind of been eliminated. And then there's always injuries or a little dysfunction. Then he gets to Houston and he pulls a hamstring. Like there have been things that, but through it all, like I think Chris Paul has been a winner, even if he hasn't won a championship, it's just hard to explain that to somebody. who is result-oriented and looks at it as like,

well, how come they didn't get past the second round with the Clippers? Yeah, that's the ultimate problem of rings culture, right? Like, we look at it and if you don't have a ring, you didn't win anything. You weren't a great player. And I don't think people fully understand what the game's like now. It's not, hey, you're the best player, therefore you should just win a championship. You need to have great pieces around you.

Look at what we're watching with Milwaukee and Janice. You know, we're always kind of asking, do they have enough? You know, very, very few guys can elevate their team to the point that every time they step on the court, they're a championship level team. And that's a guy like LeBron James. That's the guy like Michael Jordan. Like those guys are extremely rare. The other guys need to have help.

And I think, you know, we hold that against Chris a lot of times in that we think like, hey, he never made it fast in the second round. How many of those teams were supposed to make it past the second round? I mean, we can dig in for the 3-1 loss to Houston. That's something that, you know, you got to go at him for. We can talk about when he turned the ball over, what he was with the clippers against Oklahoma City, had a chance to go up 3-2.

You know, we can talk about those things, but we don't talk about the game-winning floater against the spurs in the first round. That was unbelievable. Game 7, that was an unbelievable game. Right. And, you know, we don't talk about those enough. We always just want to focus on when it didn't work out. But more often than not, if you just look at it, he delivers more than he doesn't.

And you know what, nobody's going to bat a hundred. Or excuse me, bat a thousand, yeah. He's not a – there are going to be games where he's going to have bad ones. And unfortunately, it's going to come sometimes at a bad time. You know, it's not on him. Like, when you look at his run with Houston, they take a three-two lead against the Warriors. He's the reason why in that game. If you go back and watch that game five, he pushed his body so far to the limit to make sure they get that win.

He pulled his hamstring and couldn't play the next two games. I mean, you know, but if he doesn't do that, they probably don't win that game, and they're down in that series three, too. Does Oklahoma – I mean, I still am struggling with how Oklahoma City is doing this, right? I mean, Shea Alexander's still a couple years away. Like, he doesn't – they have some transition where they don't get layups and open shots, which normally you would. so young. You know, Lou Dort is a great athlete, and if he learns to shoot, it's going to be a good player,

but they're just trying to, you know, use him for his toughness on James Hardin. I mean, it really is Chris Paul, and they're using Ferguson, who's not a great, like, Stephen Adams should dominate, but he doesn't. Just that's not what he does, even though, you know, he's being guarded by somebody

6'4. I don't even know how they're in this thing. Yeah, I mean, some of it you have to look at, you know, the rockets. I mean, just a, turnovers they had last night were really indesensible. And again, that goes back to Russ. And it wasn't just him. You know, Hardin had, I think, five turnovers.

Eric Gordon had four turnovers. I mean, right there, that's, you know, probably half the team's turnovers between the three of them. And then you just look at it with the way the Rockets play, you know, they'll let you in the games because they always tend to go on a, you know, like a six, seven-minute spell where they just can't make a shot. and if you're able to take advantage of it, you know, you can jump back into these games.

And I think that's what Oklahoma City has been able to do. But I'm with you. Sometimes I'm watching it. How is this still a game? Like, I'll watch it. There were parts of yesterday's game where I was just like, I don't, like, I can't even explain it. I actually, I have a hypothesis. Mo DeKiel joining us.

He used to work for the Spurs and the Clippers. Now he works for Bleach Report and the athletic he joins us in the herd, Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin. I actually have a hypothesis. you help me kind of flush it out. I understand, for the most part, analytics and how it works. But the part, and Barclay doesn't really get it, but one of the things that he kind of nails is the idea of jump shooting-based teams.

Because really, teams that truly play analytics-based basketball, it's not just about threes, it's about layups, and it's about free throws. But I feel like if you don't ever post up and you're just playing this drive, in kick game and shoot and try and get to the rim if not kick it out. It can be, and then you're on defense, and you miss a bunch of threes. It can be exhausting to be on defense that long and to play at that pace and to shoot that many. And now we go longer and longer into a series and your legs are gone.

I mean, James Hardin was gassed at the end of that game. And I think that a little bit of their style, it's problematic, because they wear themselves out. Yeah, I have one thing to your hypothesis is, you know, I think the ignoring completely of the mid-range, which is what the rockets tend to do, is something that really hurts them. I think this is, you know, you're, you know it, Doug.

You're leaving so much of the court where it's like, this is real estate we're not going to touch. It's almost like you're treating it like it's a swamp land. And I think in that situation, not willing to take that shot means when I'm guarding you, when you get past the three-point line, I'm just going to meet you at the rim or three or four feet from the rim and not have to worry about too much. You know, I don't have to worry about you pulling up at the elbow.

Like, what was the last time we've seen James Harden pull up at the elbow? And we saw Russ do it last night, but he missed by four feet. Yeah, that was an impressive airball, impressive because let's get to the Bucks. How problematic is Janus's issues? I mean, I know people are making a big deal of him not guarding Jimmy Butler. I think the bigger issue is he's just not able to big boy people and they're able to kind of build a wall in the playoffs. How problematic is this in this series heading forward?

Yeah, it's definitely a concern. I think, you know, first off, you have to give the heat credit for being able to get back and transition and build that wall. Like, that's pretty difficult in its own right. But I think that what comes down to it after that is the other Bucks players have to run with Yannis. There was a great example from yesterday's game where, you know, they built the wall, but nobody could account it for Kyle Corver on the win,

and Yonis was able to find him for a three. I think that's how you kind of have to take down that wall a little bit, is those other guys have to run the lanes with him and give him passing angles, because if they're going to put that much attention on Yonis in transition, then he's got to make them pay with those other guys. Because once those guys start hitting shots, then it makes it a little tougher to. kind of want to slide over and be at the nail to show big and create that wall and help help out

Timie Butler or Bamhead of I or whoever is, you know, Janice's primary defender in that position because now you're also worried about Kyle Korver stepping into three. Chris Middleton or George Hill cutting behind you or things like that. And I think that's the way the bucks might want to attack that in transition. Moe Dachill joining us from Bleach's report and the athletic. Doug Gottliebin for Colin. is the herd. Have you ever seen two guys make the volume and

accuracy of shots with the level of difficulty that we're seeing with Jamal Murray and Donovan Mitchell? No, it may have happened. What are these guys on? What are they doing? How is this happening? My theory is they're feeding them some sort of like alligator

blood or something like that since they're in Orlando or something like that. Because they're doing it for like three or four straight games. It's been impressive. There's no way to really describe it. I don't think we've ever seen a shootout go for this long in a playoff series between two guys. It's

incredible. Really incredible. Am I crazy to think that the Lakers won last night that whether they get Houston or Oklahoma City, they'll be out of gas, they match up really well. They got extra time and extra rest due to the protest. Like

the Lakers may be winning without anybody realizing it. I mean, look, when I was with the Clippers, We went to a seven-game series against Memphis. We beat Memphis, flew to San Antonio after that game, had one day of practice, and then played San Antonio. And we got swept in that series. Now, granted, we were supposed to get swept. We weren't good enough at that point.

But we were exhausted, and you could see it in game one. You could see it in the practice before that series even began. We all felt tired. I mean, how was the video guy, Doug? And I was exhausted. So I think, you know, you have, this is always an advantage for the Lakers, no matter who they play, the fact that these two teams are going to really be slugging it out. And then whenever they're done, it's a day off and then the Lakers the next day. Like, that's just a brutal scenario there for either team that moves on.

So it's definitely a win for the Lakers. By the way, you mentioned you were the video guy for the Clippers. In all of your video work, did Chris Paul ever commit a foul? because it does not appear as though he believes he ever committed a foul. When I was on the team, I never thought he committed a foul. The referees were always wrong. I can't believe. What a terrible T they gave him last night?

What was that? That was just bizarre. I mean, we've got to get rid of this supposed automatic technical for the air punch. I mean, I've seen games where they call it as soon as the guy does it, and I've seen games where they let guys slide. And I just think ultimately, we just got to get rid of that rule, this automatic tech for an air punch is too much. Let the guy show a little emotion.

I'm not surprised by Boston. I just think, like, I love Toronto and what Nick Nurse has done, but I'm not at all surprised by Boston. I picked them to win the series. Again, it's very, very early. But I just think Jason Tatum is a burgeoning star. And then I'm a Kemba guy. I know he's not as good as Kyrie.

I get that. But if you tell me game on the line, you need your point guard to go get you a bucket. I feel like, you know, Kemba gets you that bucket, and they're not big inside, but Toronto doesn't expose that. Like, I like Boston this thing. Yeah, it's really an interesting scenario, the way I kind of look at it. The thing about it is it's two different teams.

You have Boston, who's going to be heavy on their superstars. They're going to lean heavily on, like you said, Jason Tatum, Kemba Walker, and also Jayneville. Brown, like those are their guys, whereas Toronto kind of beats you with their cadre of guys and everybody kind of pitches in. So it's going to be interesting in that scenario. For me, ultimately, when it comes to the playoffs, I want to have a guy I can trust as a go-to guy.

And really, Boston's got two of them. And when I look at Toronto, I mean, this is what set Toronto apart last year, with all the other years when they fell apart. When things weren't going right, right, they were just like, oh, we're in trouble. Give it to Kauai. go get us a bucket. They don't have that guy. I'm sorry, I like Pascal Seaccoma.

But Pascal's not that guy, and I don't think he's ever going to be that guy. I think he's going to be a second or third option throughout his career, and he's going to be a good one at that. But he's not that guy. I don't know if Kyle Lowry's that guy anymore. I don't, I mean, Marcus Holtz, not that guy. You know, maybe it's Fred Van Vleet, but I get concerned, you know, with just his size that he's going up against the wings of the Celtics.

Like, it becomes a problem. So for me, ultimately, in the playoffs, like, this is a good matchup for the Celtics. It's interesting. I'm one of these people. People think that I'm anti-player because I want them to stay in college. One of the reasons I think college is really good for some guys is you have to learn to be that guy. Like, you can't, you don't go from high school a year in college or go in the G-League and then go to the – and all of a sudden, you know, because when you're first in the league, you don't get that opportunity to be the alpha. And you don't really grow into the role of being an alpha unless you've done it before at a higher level.

It's one of the things I think is missing when guys kind of brush through college, have a decent first year, get drafted early, and slowly move up kind of the food chain of the NBA. Last thing, you mentioned Kauai. I said this yesterday. Like, I don't know, I think he's the best player in the league. I watch him at both ends. I mean, he's so efficient. He carries that team. And I know Yonis is probably going to win the MVP.

if not, I would vote for LeBron because of what he's done for that team. But I feel like Kauai, truth be told, both ends of the floor combined, he's the best player. Yeah, I mean, Kauai is definitely the best player. The biggest question with Kauai is one is on the court, right? You know, yeah, and healthy. And we know throughout the season he's constantly, you know, load managing and stuff like that. If he was playing this way throughout 70, 75 games, you know, he's up there in the MVP debate. becomes a real argument.

You know, I think it's one of those things where we just don't know what we're getting from. But when we see him in the playoffs, like, you know, we saw it last year. We saw it. In game six, you know, when the Mavs were making a run, the Clippers were just like, here you go, Kauai. Go get it. And he had a dunk.

He had three midrangers, you know, without hesitation. Like, he just said, cool, I got you guys. And there's no question. He's, I think he's, if he's not the best, he's one of the best. and that's a very small list to be on. So I'm with you on that, Doug. I think he's outstanding. And I've had a front row view this year being in L.A.

Mo, great stuff, man. I love your work. Appreciate you joining us. Enjoy the hoops tonight. We'll talk soon. Thank you for having me, man. All right, it's Mo DeKiel, of course, worked in a league with the Clippers and the Spurs.

Now covers the league for Bleach Report and the Athletics. Get to Ryan, music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. What do you got, right? Okay, Doug, we talked about this earlier, and we're just going to keep adding layers to it.

The Big Ten may be closer to playing football in the fall. Football? That's right. President Donald Trump tweeted out earlier today. Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football, would be good, great for everyone,

players, fans' country on the one-yard line. the Big Ten followed that up, sending out this statement. A White House representative reached out to the Big Ten, Commissioner Kevin Warren on Monday to facilitate a phone call between President Donald Trump and Commissioner Warren. On Tuesday, Commissioner Warren and the president had a productive conversation. The Big Ten and its return to competition task force on behalf of the Big Ten Council, presidents and chancellors, are exhausting every resource to help student athletes get back to playing the sport they love at the most appropriate time in the safest and healthiest way. possible. Well, I guess the big thing is he's offering up the, they have, they have plenty of tests and he wants to throw tests their way.

That's correct. The issue that I think they have is, you know, it's the old player safety, but it's can you do the heart MRIs after if somebody gets COVID to make sure they don't have myocarditis? I have always maintained that your players are better off, not just on campus, but in your facility because they get the best training, the best treatment. If they get sick, you don't want them at home sick. You know, you don't want them not being cared for. And if you're already working out together, why can't you then play against each other? That part I didn't understand to begin with.

So, yeah, I look, but obviously the president's using this to be a, you know, politic, a good politics for him. It's winning. Even if they don't play, he can say, well, they didn't want to play because, you know, it's about politics. It's about the election. If they do, then he becomes the champion of it, even if the Big Ten was trying to play to begin with. Yeah, as you said, the federal government is offering all sorts of resource, everything from rapid result tests to other financial backing.

And several different college football reporters across the country have reached out and reported sources on the interpretation. of President Trump's on the one-yard line. Not being classified as being that close, but that is at least according to... Which one-yard line? That's very good. Very, very, very good point.

Now we will transition to some NBA here, Doug. You were talking to there with Mo Dekeel. Last night during Jimmy Butler's dominating performance, his former teammate, Joel M. Bede, was giving his thoughts on Twitter. He tweeted out a couple of different things. He tweeted out, in all caps. if dot dot dot i guess if the 76ers had never traded jimmy butler is what he's referring to

also later on he added jimmy butler hashtag too good joll and bide missing his buddy jimmy butler look i mean jimbybler's one of those guys that can be a little like chris paul right can be at times difficult to be around if you ain't all about winning like jimby blutter he's the one who's like we don't want girlfriends or wives or we're a business trip i'm sure there's guys that team like, hey, hey, I kind of like to see my girl. Like, you know, hey. He's not for everybody.

But if he's for you, he's for you. And I think that's what he's found in Miami. And last thing here, Doug, we will finish up with some unfortunate news for your Los Angeles Chargers. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, but unfortunately, bad news turned worse for the Chargers, all pro safety, Derwin James. His knee injury was a bit more serious than initially. expected. He is going to have surgery and he will be out six to eight months. Of course,

because he's a charger. That's this. Groundhog Day, right? I mean, Groundhog. Joey Bosa holds out his first year. Then Derwin James got hurt last year. And Melvin Gordon was holding out. Like, it's always Forrest Lamp got hurt. They passed on Pat Mahomes. It's Chargers, man. It's on repeat. And that's right. Music with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. Heard line news. You love them, but you hate them. The 10 best players to be annoying to watch.

That's next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes,

follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye They said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little camp? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardaway with me, your host, and your favorite things. Careers, Care Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Doug Gallyman for Colin.

This is The Herd. Got some games tonight. We'll talk some lines in a second. But you know how we do every day at this time in the herd? We got something safe for you. It's almost the end of the show. But that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope.

We grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. Yeah, so here's what we decided to do. I was watching Chris Paul last night. some of the theatrics, some of the way in which he handles himself, it drives people crazy. So I thought we would give you the 10 most annoying great athletes

slash teams of all time. Number 10. Kevin Durant. I think Kevin Durant before he got hurt was best player in the NBA. And, you know, he's one of those dudes that he's a great basketball player. I think he's actually a really good thought. thoughtful guy, but the need, the social media

thing, like the alter ego, or maybe that's his real, who he is on social media, it's just a lot. It's a lot. Number nine. I said Derek Jeter, and look, Derek Jeter, you don't get anything better than it was five and five, five for five last

game in the stadium, and he hits a home run for his 3,000th hit, and a flare for the dramatic. But there was a way in which he you know balled down the middle he didn't want to swing at stick his butt out

come on dude that's not even close some of it wasn't his doing like the gold gloves when he didn't deserve it I don't know Derek Jeter sometimes wear me out number eight there's no denying how great Floyd Mayweather is I don't think he's the greatest boxer of all time I mean he's brilliant he waited until

you know he just fought Connor McGregor never fought a boxing match before and made you know crazy money Like there's a certain brilliance to him. When he found Money Packy, I was like three years after everybody wanted to see it. So, man, he was not only injured, but past his prime. So I'm not saying he's not smart. He's not great, but he's not the greatest of all the time.

And then he's just annoying. It just is, you know? And then you pay all the money to see a fight. And until the McGregor fight, where he just let McGregor kind of wear himself out before he finally TK owed him. But that is the exception. Like, he gets ahead and then just stays away. while his defense is awesome, I want to see offense.

Number seven. LeBron James. You know, he does the, did I draw blood? I got foul. Did I draw blood? The step-back jump shot where he dribbles with his right hand and then he steps back, it's a weird, there's kind of an awkwardness to him. I also don't understand, and maybe I should because I'm a little light back there at times.

Why he doesn't he shave the head? Anybody? Like, I know, like, I don't think we should. should make fun of it on Twitter. I just actually want to know the reason. Does he have one of those wrinkly heads? Doesn't seem like it would change much. I don't know.

Number six. Chris Paul. I'm okay with him making the list. You know, I've praised him for the last two hours and 51 minutes. I can be a little, like Chris Paul, the talking to the refs,

some of the body language stuff, the flipping of the basketball, the air punch, I never committed a foul. Chris Paul. Number five. The Rockets. Let's just put them together. Darry

is brilliant okay Mike Dan Tony is brilliant James Hardin's a brilliant talent I hate watching James Hardin play basketball Mike Dan Tony's team's always lose in the playoffs to somebody who they're better than or as good as

right and Darry it's like look at some point at some point you got to throw the computer out and deal with the real deal stuff number four Now plus they remember they commissioned a group to study why they lost game seven because the officiating

Blame on the ref. They did the blame on the refs thing. Come on. John McEnroe. Greatest tennis broadcaster of all time. One of my favorite players of all time. But God, was he obnoxious. Number three.

Tim Duncan, another never called a foul guy. And I hate that we say this about Tim Duncan. Greatest Power Forward ever. He played center more than he played Power Forward. Why are we doing that? Number two. Draymond Green. Draymond Green.

Look, I agree with Draymond's stance on. and players always should have played in the bubble because it is your platform. You do have, but there are so many what he said about. Barkley, he wants to put himself in that category of Stefan Clay, and he's not in the category of Stefan Clay. I think he's a great player, but man, does he say some crazy stuff that doesn't actually make sense?

Number one. No one more annoying than T.O. And T.O. is a great player, who based on talent, belonged in the Hall of Fame. But then he's not going to, he wanted to be in the Hall of Fame, He doesn't get in. He does get in. I don't want to go to the ceremony. I'm going to do it on my own. You know, he brought down the only time the Eagles had a bad season under Andy Reid was when he was holding out for more money doing sit-ups in his driveway. Kevin Rand, Derek Jeter, Floyd Mayweather, LeBron James, Chris Paul, the Rockets.

John McEnroe, Tim Duncan, Tramon Green, and Terrell Owens. Most annoying, great players all time. All right, so we got games tonight, and they should be really, really good. You have the jazz taken on the nuggets. The jazz are a weird one. They're a weird one because, you know, Donovan Mitchell has carried them, but can he get the supporting cast help? Whereas Rudy Gobert can help you on defense but not on offense. Yokic can help you on offense and a little bit on defense as well.

The question with Yokic is always, does he have gas in the tank? I think he does. I think the nuggets win tonight. It's a pick-em. game seven to pick them. And I think the Celtics beat the Raptors, although they're underdogs. But I was one-on-one yesterday, so maybe I'll be one-on-one today. That would be one-on-one today. And we are T-minus nine days from the NFL. I thought what President Trump did was brilliant. It's a no-lose form, and now the ball is in the court of the Big Ten.

I kind of think we're going to have football in the Big Ten. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform?

We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app. or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. In 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

I mean, it was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.