The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 3 - Defending Belichick

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Reporter Ian O’Connor joins The Herd to defend Bill Belichick’s qualifications to get into the Hall of Fame despite the cheating allegations.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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He's been at the New York Post. To me, he's the most dependable columnist in America, a great reporter and a great writer. And her friend Ian O'Connor joining us now live. The article in The Athletic today, very comprehensive. And it pointed to what I said about Spigate. I would have voted Bill in. but I'm not going to hammer the people, sports riders, whoever it is, who said, listen, SpyGate, the NFL doesn't make Ian a regular habit of taking away first round picks and third round picks.

There were two SpyGates. They were warned for seven years. So how do you answer to the people that say, yes, he's the best coach of all time, but there has to be a tax on SpyGate? I think it's a fair opinion, Colin. I would just say this. Let's take early in the 2007 season when it's uncovered and he is found to have cheated and broken the rules and all that with SpyGate.

If you go forward from that point on, so I'm going to hand you back his first three Super Bowl championship trophies, take them off the board. They're yours. Go from that point forward. He went to six Super Bowls. He won three of them. He went to nine AFC championship games and won 12 divisions.

division titles. I mean, so like I think SpyGate should have been brought up in the discussion with the voting committee, without question. But I think it's a five-minute discussion because if you just go forward from 2007, when he was caught early in week one, so he goes 18 and 0, maybe the best team in the history of American sports not to win a championship,

and then does what he does in big games going forward. He's a slam dunk hall of famer, even if you hand back the first three trophies. So that's how I would handle it. I think it is worthy of being discussed, but it should have been maybe a five-minute part of the conversation, and it was longer than that. Yeah, I mean, by the way, you have a baseball Hall of Fame vote,

and there were PED situations. How did you view the PED stuff in baseball as a tax? So just like I felt that Belichick's career completely overwhelmed SpyGate, I feel like in the case of Roger Clemens and Barry Bond's, same thing, seven-time MVP with Bons, seven-time Syong winner in Clemens, the two most decorated players in the history of the BBWA, the organization I represent when I cast the ballot. So I voted for those two guys.

They're two of the top eight players in the history of baseball by the measurement of war. And I didn't vote for the other PED guys because I felt they fell below that standard and should be penalized for their cheating. When you completely overwhelmed the transgression the way Belichick did, then I think, again, you are a no-brainer Hall of Famer, and that should have been the case here instead of the biggest embarrassment in the history of the Hall of Fame. All the, yeah, this is good stuff.

Okay, it is interesting, is that, and I wouldn't hold this against him, but Jimmy Johnson, without Troy Aikman in his prime, went to Miami with an old immobile merino and actually had a higher winning percentage in Miami than he did in Dallas. Joe Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks, Parcells won two with Hostetler and Sims, and by the way, Bill Walsh and Vince Lombardi did not get in

the first year of eligibility. Could I argue this with Belichick? Okay, Bill, listen, they just changed the methodology. if Shula had to wait five years. And by the way, got to the Super Bowl with David Woodley, Earl Morrill, and Marino. I'm not putting you in first year when I,

the accumulation of SpyGate, your record without Brady, everybody else waited. Is that a reasonable argument? I don't think so. Again, I think the record is so staggering with or without the cheating that he has to go in on the first ballot. It's not his fault.

They change the rules and they no longer have to wait five years and it's it's a one-year deal and he's in front of you i just there's no good excuse for not voting for the greatest NFL coach of all time no matter how you slice it now listen the hall of fame needs to fix some things here you can't have senior players competing against coaches and contributors in a category where you're only allowed to vote for three of the five guys why can't you vote for all five if you think they're worthy if that were the case Belichick would be in and you wouldn't have this embarrassment. And so the other thing, and this is a minor tweak, but it would help go from 80% down to 75%,

which is the baseball standard. Yes. And I think if that had been in play here already, if those rules, and listen, Dion Sanders and other players complained in the past that it was too easy to get into the Hall of Fame, and that was the reason why they overcorrected. Now they got to overcorrect going back the other way because the backlog is. such where guys like even Tom Coughlin and other coaches now have to probably wait another year because Belichick will go in next year. That backlog is getting dangerous and it needs to be corrected.

Okay, Eli Manning's second year didn't get in. I would put him in probably second ballot. I wouldn't put him first ballot. I don't think you can tell the story of the league without Eli Manning. In fact, you can't. I do think it's not that he won two Super Bowls. I think it's so significant that he beat Belichick the best coach, Brady the best player, and there's an argument outside of the Bradshaw Lynn Swan catch. He had the two most memorable catches in Super Bowl history. I wouldn't put him in first ballot because he was kind of a middling regular season quarterback. I would have put him in on this ballot. Am I reaching there? No, I think that's right. I'm not sure he's a first ballot guy either, and he was a 500 quarterback in the regular season.

He only won postseason games in the two years he won Super Bowls. But those performances, those throws down the stretch to beat the greatest coach quarterback partnership in the history of the league, playing in New York with that last name, following his brother, I do think those are tiebreakers that go in his favor. And yeah, is he a first ballot guy? Probably not. But I would have put him in this year.

And I think he will eventually get in. But again, that backlog with modern era players, It's going to get dicey and the Hall of Fame needs to ease the voting standards. The floor of the induction standards have to be changed and to allow some of these worthy players to get in. Okay, so you wrote another book I read, Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of Aaron Rogers, fantastic read. So, and I want to, you can take your time obviously on this, is that I said, I could see Mike McCarthy and Aaron saying, let's just make it work. Let's sew this wound up. Let's just do it. I can also see the Steelers saying, we drafted Will Howard. It's a great draft next year for quarterbacks. Aaron, we want to see

if Will can play. We've got to figure this out. We're going to give him 17 start. We don't want them sitting it behind you. Either way, I'd be comfortable with. Aaron has said publicly, Mike and I are good. Mike has said it publicly. You know as well as anybody. What people say, you know, in front of the camera, is not what they're saying behind it. Do you think McCorm, and Aaron could work for at least one year in Pittsburgh together. I do. I do. And I did speak with both Aaron and McCarthy for my book.

I did ask them that question. And their relationship is better now than it ever was when they were together in Green Bay. And Rogers said to me, listen, we did butt heads from time to time, even though I think it was more often than that. But at the end of the day, we lit it up for a lot of years. And what people forget is Mike McCarthy changed Aaron Rogers' entire style. of play. When he got him out of Cal, he was very robotic. He had the ball back at his earhole, and

McCarthy loosened him up and made him a more athletic player and really helped develop him into an all-time great and never gets any credit for that. So listen, McCarthy's on record saying he wants them. Most of the Steelers players want him back, if not all of them. And so I think that Rogers will play one more year because it is McCarthy. He might be the only coach that he would state in Pittsburgh to play for. So what is the ceiling for this partnership? Probably 11 and 6 at best winning a playoff game. So if you're a Steelers fan, you're saying, well, we can't win the Super Bowl with this partnership, but we can have a productive season. I will say if they're three and six, I think there needs to be a discussion about maybe even in advance, though you don't want to deal

in negative hypotheticals, but then Will Howard has to be in play. If the season is getting away from McCarthy and Rogers, then I think they have to turn to the young quarterback. You know, yesterday a lot of fans, listen, people don't trust the media. They don't like us. They trust you, but they don't like the media. They don't like me either. So that's all right. So I said this yesterday.

I said the only baseball player to ever get in, I believe, with 100% of the votes is Mariano Rivera. He's not doing it on innings pitched. He's doing it on excellence. and he was maybe the most humble, graceful, gracious athlete. You know, he's in that Kofax where you can't find a bad word about him. And, I mean, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey, I mean, there's just all these great players. You're like, they can get 100% of the vote.

And so my take is Mariano was such a pleasure to deal with that it did matter to the voters, is that they liked him. And people yesterday said, well, you guys didn't like Belichick. And my take is, listen, it's not that Bill didn't ignore the media. He was obnoxious. Again, it shouldn't count, but I think Bill needed a tad bit of awareness for the last 15 years in New England knowing those are the guys voting for you. What do you make of the assertion that people just had it out for Bill? Because he wasn't, he wasn't, you know, he was overly harsh, blunt.

and dismissive of the media. And by the way, Colin, did you know that 11 voters did not vote for Babe Ruth on the first ballot? I read that yesterday. I read that. So you can't please everybody, I guess. I would say that had nothing to do with it.

Okay. With Belichick, I talked to a number of voters and just my own experience with the guy, and I understand he was difficult to deal with at times from a media perspective, but I really do not believe that was it. It was part of it was, hey, some people wanted to punish him for one year because of SpyGate and maybe a little bit of deflakeate. I think voting, a lot of people wanted to vote for the senior players instead of the coach and the contributor.

And other people assumed Belichick was getting in. Well, he doesn't need my vote, so I'm going to reserve my votes for other candidates. There was a lot of that. I think SpyGate probably cost him three or four votes out of the 11 or 12, but that cost them induction. Right. And that's where we go back to whether or not you believe a one-year penalty was warranted. And in my opinion, it wasn't simply because the winning was so staggering that it just knocked SpyGate out of the park. One final question, Ian O'Connor at The Athletic for our radio audience.

It has been suggested, and you would know this, that Robert Kraft didn't want to go in the same year as Belichick. He didn't want to be. And they don't see eye-to-eye. There was a documentary done that did feel like. Belichick, it felt like Kraft wanted to lean in a little bit on Belichick. I think that's reasonable. What about that assertion? I don't think it's a conspiracy theory. I don't think it rises to that. I think it's a reasonable discussion that Kraft squeeze some people. Yeah, I guess it's possible. I do know that Belichick would walk by Kraft in the hallway sometimes and not even say hi to him.

And at the end of the day, Kraft deserves a lot of credit for keeping that group together. For Brady and Belichick, obviously at odds at times. It was really more like Brady and Kraft versus Belichick than anything else. But they made it work over time. They deserve a lot of credit for that. I think it's possible. Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters. And I do think that he would love to get into the Hall of Fame ahead of Bill Belichick.

He's been waiting long enough. By the way, Kraft has gone to 11 Super Bowls since Jerry Jones has appeared to one and Jones is in the Hall of Fame Craft isn't so maybe that gets rectified now, we'll see, but yeah, he would love to get in ahead of Bill without question. Ian, it's great to see you. Good luck to you and the fam and love your

work at the athletic. Congrats on all your success. You're the best, Colin. Thanks. All right. Very comprehensive. If there's ever a big story, that's one of the two or three people I go to, Ian O'Connor. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific

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Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. That's it. The craft thing, there was that documentary. Was that done by... Who did that documentary? Did Apple do that? All right.

It wasn't Gotham Chopra? It was Apple? Okay, it was Apple. All right. Because there was that documentary done, and I know a lot of Patriot fans thought it was very heavy-handed. They thought it was very much beating up on Bill.

And I watched it. And I thought it did favor craft. I don't think I took it to that level. Listen, when you're difficult, you know, I've used the argument of Bobby Knight. When you're just difficult and rough and curt and dismissive, you're going to wear some people out. I mean, that's just life. That's the way it is. It was Apple.

Let's see. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. produced by Brian Grazer Okay, thanks guys and Ron Howard Okay, there it was There's so many documentaries out there on dynasties

I lose count But yeah people felt that It was a little heavy-handed Robert Kraft had his way in the documentary It did feel like it was It was definitely pro Robert Kraft Who, I mean 11 Super Bowls Four franchises

I've never been to one J-Mac with the news No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Imagine that a billionaire having his thumb on the scale. I mean, who could have seen that coming? I mean, geez.

Anyway, so let's go to the Patriots. And Mike Vrable, they are in the Super Bowl. Very exciting times for Vrable, who, by the way, played for Bill Belichick for eight seasons in New England. So during media availability, Vrable was asked about his former coach not getting into the Hall of Fame. So Vrable actually said, I'm sure Bill will get in. That's something well out of my control. Bottom line is I'm sure that Bill will get into Canton.

Now, here's what's interesting. Colin, I don't think this story is going to die down here in the next six days, five days. So we're going to be then going into Super Bowl week and the Patriots are going to be getting grilled, specifically Vrable, about Belichick Kraft Hall of Fame. I just wonder if this becomes something of a distraction. Hey, Vrabel, so about SpyGate? Oh, he'll shut it down immediately. 15, 20 years ago. He'll shut it down immediately. But you think the media is going to stop?

This is what... You know how the media works, Colin. They go for what clicks. And nobody's clicking about Milton Williams, as good of a story as that is. They're clicking on... Vrabel said about SpyGate and cheating and Belichick and Hall of Fame. So you can tell that's where the story is going to head next week.

I don't think this is going away. I think Vrable would just shut that down I mean, like I'm in the media. I think, in my opinion, that would be unfair. I think as a media member, if I went to that media day, that's an unfair position to take. I'm going to go ask new Patriot coach, Mike Vrable, about Bill Belichick's Hall of Fame.

I think that's an unfair question. I don't think all questions are equal. We're talking about the Super Bowl. I mean, why would I? With the Patriots, and Vrable played for, Belichick for eight seasons, including the SpyGate time. Braybill doesn't vote on the Hall of Fame. He's not part of it. He was part of the team that was embroiled in Spye game. And by the way, they were fined,

and they lost draft picks. There's a resolution to it. And now it's come back up because of Hall of Fame. Yeah, this week it did. You think that's unfair? Now, that is an interesting take. I'm just telling you, I have asked hard questions before. I will, again, I don't think that's fair. That doesn't, that feels like media. trying to be the story. I'm going to ask Brable about about SpyGate.

That's not, we're in a Super Bowl week. They asked him today. Like, they're definitely going to ask him. It's not Super Bowl week. Super Bowl week is like, to me, it's just a different week. That's not to say it has to be all celebratory, but it's like game, the World Series. It's really a celebration of the greatness of baseball.

That, I mean, I could ask questions all throughout the season, Once you get to a World Series, if there's not an impending decision made that's controversial, I'm not going to drudge stuff up. That's my take on being a media member. There's a time and a place to ask uncomfortable questions. And I don't think at the media scrum, hey, what do you make a, you are on those teams. Did you know it what? I don't think it just, I mean, I'm sure every journalist in America is listening and thinks I'm off my rocker.

So I do think they think that because I'm sitting here like, Wow, that's quite a take. So, you know, we got a show here. You've had this show for a long time I joined. We don't need to worry about clicks and all that stuff. We're thriving. There's a lot of other people out there in the media who are looking to go viral. You know that.

They need the headlines. They need the clicks. They've got to push the envelope. That's fine. I mean, again, and lawyers need put billboards up to get clients. You know, I mean, like, it is what it is. I'm not blaming other media people. I'm just saying I would be uncomfortable going up and asking about SpyGate,

which there was resolution, suspension, draft picks. That's not Brable's team. Brable's a player. Wait, technically Belichick was not suspended, which gives people, which really hurts people now. He was fine, and they lost, there were two spy gates. He lost a first round pick and I think a third. Right. That's fun.

Wonderful talk about it next week here on the show. Let's go to the Atlanta Falcons. you have stolen the Titans as a team of destiny. So I guess I got to settle for the Falcons and Stefansky. How about this, Colin? The media in Atlanta asked him, hey, what's up with quarterback? You're going to go with Pennix? Is it going to be cousins?

Here we go. Stephansky on the mic. We have to hire a general manager first before I can give you a great answer there. Once we do that, I'll sit with the general manager, sit with Matt Ryan. We'll put our heads together on all roster decisions. Obviously, Michael's a young player that I think very high. of he is rehabbing off of his injury he's doing great he's doing everything that he's supposed to be doing and then Kirk obviously a relationship there he's somebody that I think very

highly of on and off the field but all those type of decisions will come once we have a general manager yeah I think again that's a that's a reasonable question you're the new coach they're asking you about your quarterback situation that is a question I would have no problem asking even though I know his answer is going to be exactly what he said That's a fair question to ask. It's his team. It's timely. It's in the moment.

It's about personnel he will coach. That's a fair question. So interestingly, I totally forgot they hadn't even hired a GM, Colin. You know, that's not usually the past. You hire the GM who then hires the coach. You go coach before GM and is the GM a figurehead? Maybe that's why they're struggling to fill the role. Everybody knows Stefansky has the power and Matt Ryan is now a power player.

Well, I also think Stafansky was a, in this instance, I defend Atlanta because Stafansky was an excellent candidate. And if you sit around and, you know, you screw around, all of a sudden, Stefansky's in Tennessee and you're getting the seventh best candidate. So I think when it comes to the top two candidates, I got to get that guy in house. By the way, most head coaches don't want. I mean, Belichick did. Pete Carroll at the end did. They wanted to have some say in personnel. I think Sean Payton does.

There's a lot of these coaches. Andy Reid doesn't want anything. Andy Reid's like, you draft. Not every coach wants their imprint. I mean, a coach and a GM generally, I mean, they're like friends. They get along. They're allies. They travel together.

They talk together. They lunch together. You're basically, hey, I mean, Kevin Stefanski is going to tell them. Listen, we got three needs on this team. This is what I see. Offensively, we need a right guard. We need a defense event. They usually agree.

Very rarely do you. get budding heads. Your problem is when the owner wants say in personnel, that can be your problem. That's terrible. But if, you know, if you don't have a coach and GM on the same page, you get the Buffalo disaster that unraveled this season with McDermott take it pot shots at the roster and then being cozying up to the owner and getting him fired. And you saw that at Miami? I don't think McDermott took pot shots. No, no, he did. The athletic wrote about it. He definitely did. He didn't take a pot shot. He sat down in a room and said, I don't know if we have the personnel to win a Super Bowl. That's not a pot shot. That's a disclosure and an opinion. He didn't go,

a pot shot's going on the local afternoon radio show and saying, we got bums all over the defense. McDermott's like, hey, guys, and that, for the record, that was a private conversation that leaked. I'm, I'm angrier at the leak than I am McDermott sitting down like a, like a, like I'm alpha and going, guys, Terry, you know, I don't have a problem with you discussing with your If I went to a boss and said, I want a private conversation. If it ended up in the athletic or the LA Times the next day, I'm mad at my boss. You shouldn't be mad at me for having a grown-up conversation. The blame game is always fun.

Let's go to the final story. And that is Joe Brady, the new Buffalo Bills head coach. He got really emotional talking about his players. Colin, I don't know what it is with coaches crying. But here's another one. Lastly, our players, my guys, I'm so appreciative for you guys being here today. I thank you for allowing me to be myself playing for me and being you with us

I may be calling plays still but I'm no longer the offensive coordinator Max I mean you want me to root against that guy I mean come on soft you say come on cry at the birth of your kid maybe when you're getting married something exciting something sad like Mike McCarthy's parents are at the press conference

What are you? What are you just a... McCartney's a little different. He's coming home. Joe Brady's 36 years old. Did you cry in your 30s at all? Outside of like a death or a birth? Come on. Dude, I cry 25 times a year. I've never seen you cry and we've become friendly over the years. I'm telling you right now, if the pasta comes in cold, I'll cry at a restaurant.

I said Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. My news. You know, J-MAC, they're called emotions. You know, you may want to share them occasionally. It's okay if you, you know, it's a... I mean, listen, I'm not going to cry over getting a parking ticket, but...

Colin, he said, my guys, thanks for showing up, and he got choked up. He loves his players. These coaches... Soft. You just spend your whole... You literally spend 17 hours a day at the facility. These players are getting beat up and injured for you. I mean, I think being a...

You hear Harbaugh talk about how... he loves the players. I think these coaches, I think the bond between, I don't know about the NBA and baseball. The bond between football coaches and football players for a lot of these guys is, I mean, when you hear, I was reading the story the other day about Mike Tomlin and about how many players were like, like Mike changed my life. I mean, remember we had, was that Emmanuel Sanders came on our show? And Emmanuel's like, he sat me down, like man to man and said, here's what you do with the money and here's what you don't do. And it's like, Mike Tomlin changed people's lives. Mike Tomlin, come on, man. This is Joe Brady. We ain't changed their lives.

Maybe he's going to have that kind of relationship with his players. No way. I'll give you two job, buy you two jet skis if he becomes a Mike Tomlin type coach. Come on. Get out of here. Mike Tomlin's on it. It's a top rung of top 5% of coaches of all. Admit it. We're going to go to commercial break and you're going to laugh about Joe Brady with those guys. I am not. I'm very emotional right now. I don't know if I can get through the segment. It's the Hurd. Be sure to catch live editions of the Hurd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast.

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on Clay.

Jen she went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now, and I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer games is we have real conversations about healing growth fathers pressure and purpose on my new podcast,

Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Super Bowl week. We'll have Fred Warner, Aidan Hutchison of the Lions, Christian McCaffrey, my buddy Max Crosby. Boy, losing Fred Warner for the Niners. Probably the best linebacker in football right now.

Tough for San Francisco. Ian O'Connor of the Athletic, great columnist, sports columnist for decades in this country. He didn't think, despite SpyGate, he did not believe that SpyGate or SpyGate 2 should have kept Belichick out of the Hall of Fame. SpyGate should have been brought up in the discussion with the voting committee without question. But I think it's a five-minute discussion because if you just go forward from 2007 when he was caught early in week one, so he goes 18 and O, maybe the best team in the history. American sports not to win a championship and then does what he does in big games going forward

he's a slam dunk hall of famer even if you hand back the first three trophies uh it's certainly worth pause and discussion uh that's that's a good argument i i would mention there was also spy gate two so it it didn't stick there were seven years three letters stopped doing it he didn't and then there was a spy gate too so uh ian also talked about many assumed that Robert Kraft doesn't want to go into the Hall of Fame at the same time as Bill. He didn't like the way he was treated by Bill, dismissive, and he owned the Patriots, made Bill the richest coach in the NFL. And I asked Ian about Kraft's influence of maybe pinching a few people, putting a thumb on a few of the voters, or having influence

in Bill Belichick getting snubbed in his first year of eligibility. It was really more like Brady and Kraft versus Belichick than anything else. But they made it work over time. They deserve a lot of credit for that. I think it's possible. Kraft might have whispered to a couple of voters. And I do think that he would love to get into the Hall of Fame ahead of Bill Belichick.

He's been waiting long enough. By the way, Kraft has gone to 11 Super Bowls since Jerry Jones has appeared in one, and Jones is in the Hall of Fame and Kraft isn't. So maybe that gets rectified now. We'll see. But, yeah, he would love to get in ahead of Bill without question. Listen, all Hall of Fames, all of them.

I mean, somebody wrote a column yesterday from the Kansas City Star and said, listen, I voted for Kenny Anderson over Bill Belichick. I watched Kenny Anderson. I remember I know exactly what Kenny Anderson looked like. Number 14, Bengals quarterback, did a good job, good quarterback, very accurate. You shouldn't vote Kenny Anderson at any point over Belichick if you're given a choice. you know that that that's my opinion and Kenny Anderson certainly worthy of consideration so is L.C. Greenwood, Roger Craig, but you know all all Hall of Fames it doesn't matter if it's the rock and roll Hall of Fame or the Radio Hall of Fame or

the baseball or the Football Hall of Fame they get political. It is it's in exact, it's opinion you know so like yesterday I wasn't shocked I wasn't outraged this is not a Pete Rose situation. He will get in. He'll probably get in next year. Eli Manning is probably not a first ballot guy. If you're going to put, you know, if you're going to put the all-time great, it's like a Peyton Manning will be a first ballot guy, then Eli's got to be a second ballot guy. It's not just about Super Bowls, and they were iconic for him, but he was a pretty average regular season guy. But I think I'm not real precious about any of this stuff, about the media, about Hall of Fame, about sports. You know, there's all sorts of stuff.

You know, there's a few sports like golf. You know, don't kick a golf ball. Don't screw with the rules. Everybody's, everybody's, I mean, don't go Houston Astros. But, you know, people have been stealing signals forever in the NFL and baseball. And I think sometimes, you know, I didn't want to yesterday get too precious. But I'm also not going to beat up on guys because I don't believe that, well, media shouldn't vote on anything. Well, I mean, nobody holds grudges like ex-players and coaches.

I mean, people say Bill Polion's holding a grudge. We know Belichick still holding a grudge on Robert Kraft. So everybody that votes on this stuff could be a sports writer. Well, you didn't play the game. Well, hell, half the time you'll ask these players about overtime rules, and they don't even understand that, and they do play the game. So I like people that vote to be dispassionate, informed but dispassionate, so I don't have a problem with some media voting on it.

I don't believe in all everything or nothing. I think we can have a couple sports writers, a couple broadcasters. I think Vince Scully had the right to vote on the Hall of Fame if he had a vote. He knows the sport. It doesn't matter that it didn't play. Because a lot of guys who are players don't pay attention to anybody else but their team are themselves. They don't really have a broad, holistic view of a sport. I mean, they just don't.

I'm a shortstop for the Orioles. That's what I do. You know, I don't care about the sport. I don't want your opinion on a Dodger second baseman. I mean, yeah, a lot of it. I remember, you know, like football coaches when they used to vote on the AP top 20. And Steve Spurrier, I think, once talked about this. He's like, I don't watch any of the games.

I handed it to my sports information director. So there's your coach voting. How in the world is Kirby smart when he's coaching the Bulldogs in a three o'clock start watching the early in the late games? He's not. He handed to his sports information. You know who is watching? Media guys. Yeah.

Right? So the idea that media people are all even. I mean, Ian O'Connor's about as informed as anybody when he's got a baseball Hall of Fame vote. And I was always like, let the cheaters in baseball because you didn't know who was cheating. You know, you could make the same argument for football. Jim Harbaugh got a 14-year ban in college football.

I think that's over the top. Colin, let me ask you something real quick about this, KC. Star column, right? I read that thing, too. And he basically said, I'm voting these guys in because they waited a long time and they're old and they deserve to be in. Belichick will eventually get in. That was the gist of it. Yeah.

Colin, isn't that like the dumbest logic you've ever heard? I just remove the emotion. Who deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? Ken Anderson, Roger Craig, or Bill Belichick? Yeah, Belichick. It's a no-brainer. Just vote. Be smart.

Why do these guys twist themselves in the pretzels? You're blaming the writer. You're blaming the writer. I would blame, first of all, there's not enough football Hall of Fame voters. There's like 50. 50? 50? 50 voters, that's it.

You should have 100. And you should rotate some. You should have like you can vote for eight years, then bring in some new people. Well, that's not bad. I mean, you want your coach to be current, your quarterback to be current. I want my voters to be current. So I, you know, the methodology is weird. You can only vote on three of five.

Wow, five of five. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. People to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's My God. Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come until he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love.

This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Therapy is fantastic. But once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access.

On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and the, Terry Lomax create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals. Listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.