The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - How the unexpected happened

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Esteemed golf insider Alan Shipnuck joins the show to give insight on how the unexpected merger between rival golf leagues came aboutSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app

by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Well, in all my years of doing this, Jim Jackson, probably more than any athlete, 15 years in the NBA, works at Fox Sports, has an understanding and appreciation and an excellence with golf. So we were talking during the break. You are a tried and true golfer. You love the tour. Were you initially outraged?

because you have some thoughts on the Live Tour and the PGA Tour emerging, were you initially outraged by Phil, Dustin, and Brooks going there? Maybe because of the optics of how it happened, okay? Because the back and forth between Phil, the PGA, what's right, what's wrong, it's the money, it's Greg Norman. It was convoluted a lot because I don't think the message was articulated good enough where people could really understand why this was important. But anytime you have a competing faction against,

the power. It's always going to be some pushback. ABA, NBA, NBA, U.S.FL, AFL, NFL. It's always going to be that until it starts to circulate a little bit more. And now you see the fruits of what it can bring to the table. Now you're like, oh, okay, it may make some sense. By the way, why would live golf want to do this? Well, TV rights. Bingo. You got to be on TV. They're not on TV. They're not on, from the street. Now, as we're evolving into direct to consumer-based streaming for sports. Okay, we're not there yet. Right. So they can't benefit off of people packaging the deal and say, okay, we just strictly want

this. In today's world, in order to have some momentum, it has to be on TV all the time so people can watch it. Even the novice golf fan can watch it. But if you have to go look for, that's just too much. If you're not really into golf. Think about this. The AFL and the NFL merged.

The ABA and the NFL merged. ABA and the NBA merged and then live in the PGA merged. It is, you know, one thing about the NBA is this, is that if you look at the time of the ABA, okay, the NBA took so many things away from the ABA, because at the time, the ABA in order to get fans in the stands, they needed entertainment. So you had halftime shows, you had all the cheerleaders, you had the tri-colored ball, but you had all the marketing to get people in the arena, three-point shot, slam dunk contest, All these things were looked at as gimmicks to the NBA over the establishment.

We're not going to bow down to that. But yet and still, look at today's game. All of that stuff that you see in the arena activity is all a byproduct of the ABA. The XFL with Vince McMahon used camera angles. NFL stolen. Stolen. Because, again, they've been established so much. Why do we need to change?

We don't need to change. We're the PGA. We're MLB. We're the NFL. We're NBA. Everybody should come up to us instead of kind of, being open a little bit more to the ever-changing needs of the demographics. And the demographics change is going to dictate what you do, how the product is, you know, seen.

It bothered me that the PGA tour leaned into 9-11, knowing full well that our government has Saudi money and relationships. Jay Monaghan went out, and I thought the PGA was heavy-handed. When the truth is, years ago, Shell Oil, you used to. to host golf events? Big time. The shell open in Houston. Okay, so it's, when we're talking about morality.

Right. Okay. And it's all relative from this perspective. Is that you can't sit here and say, well, on one hand, we don't want to take Saudi money, but yet we're doing business

all the time with Saudi Arabia, whether that's governmental, industrial. Ask yourself this. Do you think in the last 50 years, any pro golfers have done speaking engagements? Oh, for Saudi, no question.

What about corporate America who does some stuff like that? So it's interesting. When you want to make an argument for something or why it shouldn't work, you can always bring up something. But yet still over here on this hand, doing business is not a bad thing. And I just think it comes to an inflection point where the PGA understood that they still needed stars. Yeah.

And the difference is, and I look at, at golf like this, kind of. We have tremendously talented young players in golf. I mean, unbelievable across the board. But do they have an it factor that captures the novice golf audience? Tiger had that. Even if you didn't weren't a golfer, even if you didn't watch it. He got you to a TV on Sunday.

He got you to a TV. Saturday and Sunday, it's Tiger playing from people housewives. It didn't even care about the game. Who benefited? Other golfers. A golfer. But in today's world, I mean, the Jordan speech of the world, the macro, macro, we've got so many great young players, but the stories are not as intriguing.

They don't invite you in there. Not to say that they're not great golfers. That's right. But that other it factor part of it doesn't translate the same as tigers. So let's talk. You played for the Miami Heat. And you played for a lot of teams. did you gain an appreciation for what they call the heat culture?

Prime example is this. So I was there in 2002, just for a brief stint. Played well started, did everything. We didn't make the playoffs. Later that summer, I'm still living in Dallas a little bit. Pat Riley calls me on the phone. He was our coach at the time. Eric Spolcher was our film guy.

Pat calls me and said, Jim, you did a great job for us in the short time here. You started, you deserve the start. I've made two drab choices of these young players and I need to see if they can play. You need to go somewhere where you can, if you can start and get the minute you got it, if not, you have a

roster spot here. But I want you to do that. That's Pat Riley. He didn't have to do that. Now, it just so happened it was Dwayne, Wayne, and Karam Butler, who they were drafted it. Which was smart. I get it, but he gave me the option of what I wanted to do with my

career, whether come off the bench, or maybe seek somewhere else. Okay? That's why that culture, that's why they've been able to be successful and ride the way. They're honest with you. They're up front with you. They're demanding.

To be professional, to do your job. It's amazing to me that, you know, with Pat Roddy, because Mickey Erickson is such an outstanding owner. Why? Because he stays out the way. He allows the people that he's hired that understand the job,

a lot better than him, to run it. So you don't have a lot of change in management, kind of like New England for a long time. Yeah. That's why they've been so stable. Continuity. Now, think about the time, too,

when Eric Spolcher got in there and there was all this riff about maybe he needs to be fired. He needs to get out. He's not mature enough. Pat Roddy was like, no, that's not happening. I picked him for a reason. Okay, I'm staying with him. And now look at Eric Spolster's probably behind Pop,

probably the best coach in the league. You might have surpassed him from that perspective. But that's the culture. in Miami. And it doesn't go just basketball-wise. It's corporate. It's across the board. And how we treat our players and the families of these players.

Now, everybody may not agree with certain things, but consistently for the last 20-plus years, they've been, along with San Antonio probably in Golden State, at the high end of the spectrum when it comes to that. I look at the Boston Celtics, and I know they've already been ousted. But speaking of continuity, is would you just bring it back, give Joe Missoula another run,

probably wouldn't bring it back for three or four years, but both Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum now get max deals, meaning you're going to have to move some pieces. The bench going forward will not be as good. Yeah, but if you look at Miami, Miami, it's not like you need superstars to win. You need a superstar too, but how good are your complimentary players?

Because that's what's going to reshape a series. Because your main guys like Bam Out of Bio and Jimmy Butler, then you got Murray and Yokers, they're going to get theirs. But the other ancillary players, the players that you really need to come in for seven games to really provide that support are the ones that help you win a championship. So if you look at Boston, to me, why give up on something that's there? Maybe you need to change and mold a little bit more

and fix and add some ancillary pieces. I think Horford is a little bit older now. You probably need to replace that. Do you need to bring Marcus Mark? or do you want Brogden? Those are the kind of questions you need to ask and add and tweak. Yeah, I'd love one more. Or a nice power forward or a wing player.

Who can score a little. Who can score. But they've been successful. It's hard getting over the top to win in this league. People just think, oh, well, you got these players, and all of a sudden you should be there and win. This year was an anomaly too because at the beginning, think about this Joe Missoula comes in.

he replaces I mean doke. Normally a coach has all summer to get his coaching staff together, get his game playing together, get all this stuff together. He didn't have that. So of course he's going to make some mistakes. But he grew as a coach over the course of the season. Okay. And it's kind of unfair that you judge him the same

that you would judge an experienced coach just because he has a talented roster. That's not the same. And you see he's going to have to, you know, know, re-up, you know, and bringing some coaches that he wants to run his stuff next year. Who do you like? Denver, Miami. They're tied now. I give a lot of respect for Denver from this perspective, Colin. All year, they play consistent. They played together as a team. KCP, I thought was huge. Bruce Brown was huge pickups.

And I love the way they play. And I just love Yokes from a basketball perspective. But it's something about that Miami team, just the way they go about their business. they can win on the road, they can win ugly, they don't have to shoot the ball well to win. You know, they find out ways just to... They're a great fourth quarter team. I saw a stat today. But they keep it close,

because they don't let the lead balloon enough where they, if they make a 8 to 10-0 run, six to eight, you know, they're right there back in the mix, and then what they, because they're so disciplined, down the stretch of the game, they limit the amount of mental mistakes they make

that allows them to, ultimately, if not win, the game make it very interesting. Jim Jackson. Good talking golf and the heat culture with Jimmy Jackson. Got it, brother. You golfing today later? Tomorrow. And Thursday. Get your clubs.

That's right. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skis. hits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined.

And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you're not. But just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed correct.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Now you're finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

J-Mac with the news. No. No. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Jim plays as much golf as I like to play basketball. No, he does. He's working on getting me on a NBA summer league team.

Are you a scratch golfer? Man, I can scratch. That's about it. All right. I'm a golfer. I love to have fun. I don't practice enough. I'm lazy when it comes to that.

How about that? I just want to play. Yeah. So I'm up and down. Yeah, he really looks lazy. I mean, this guy works out like an animal. He's lazy. Well, just in case you and I get a 10-day,

I got to make sure. I support you when you double penetrates and not my guy. Always looking out for me. All right, let's start the NFL. Bill O'Brien. He coached Tom Brady five years with the Patriots. Now he's back as the Patriots offensive coordinator.

Yesterday, Brady was asked about O'Brien's return and how it impacts Mac Jones. I love my time with Billy. He was a great addition to our team when he came in 07. We worked together very closely 2009, 2010, 2011. It's hard to find good coaches. in the NFL. Billy's certainly one of them. He's very talented, very smart. And Max, a very talented

young player. So a lot of what's going to happen in the NFL is going to be determined by what these guys do under pressure when it matters the most and how they can continue to evolve and grow from this point on. Francis, do you think Brady is kind of quietly rooting against the Patriots? Boy, I leave Bill Belichick. He doesn't do a damn thing. What if they don't make the playoffs again this year? Somebody could look it up. I don't want to throw anybody under the bus. But take Belichick's record in Cleveland, post Tom, the one year with Matt Castle,

and the year and a half, Bledso started pre-Tom. And what's Belichick's record? I bet you it's 500. Well, they were 10 and 6 with Castle. And that was the big year where it's like, wow, who needs Brady? Velichick's the genius. But I thought for that. The year before they were like, wasn't that the like 17-0 team or something until the Super Bowl?

It was a good team. Wasn't it? They had some pretty stacked teams. Yeah. It was one of the better roster. I don't want to take stuff away from Belichick, but at this point it definitely seems like Tom was more 60-40, Tom. 65, 35? Yeah, 70-30, yeah.

All right, next up. Especially the last 10, last 10 year. First 10, it was closer to 50-50. Last 10, it was Tom. Tom, Tom, yeah. Next up, the NFL is investigating, uh-oh. Colts, cornerback, and kick returner Isaiah Rogers for a possible violation of the league. gambling policy. Colin, he started nine games for the Colts last season and issued this statement

on Twitter. I know I have made mistakes and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to repair the situation. The last thing I ever wanted to do would be a distraction to the Colts organization, my coaches and teammates. I've let people down that I care about. I made an error in judgment and I'm going to work hard to make sure these mistakes are rectified through this process. It's an honor to play in the NFL and I've never taken that lightly. I'm very sorry for all of this. I'll tell him that's about as well. Well, he did a good job there. He better.

If he was gambling this season, that's on him. This past season that just happened? Remember, Calvin Ridley was suspended the year prior. Well, he's young and they make mistakes. And this gambling thing is new in America. When you see Calvin Ridley suspended, I think it happened a year ago now, sometime last, before last season. Instantly, there should be, whoa, I'm not getting involved in that crap. I think you're allowed to bet, not on the NFL.

You're not allowed to bet on a facility. In the facility, you can't bet. But you could bet hockey, I think. So you're allowed, it's hot, you're allowed to bet. And I think guys start betting other things. And then they, you know, they do, you know. This is your livelihood. I know I'm not.

I am in no way. He's culpable for it. But I thought as a young person, maybe that's AI generated, but that was about as good of press release. And as culpable, he owned it. He made a mistake. People make mistakes. I'm very forgiving as I get older.

Chat, GBT, GBT for the, uh, The forgiveness from the society. Yeah, that's actually, I've been using it for chess strategies because my son, who's 12, is now beating me. So I've had to turn to AI for a little assistance. He's playing a lot every day. I'm not. I'm working on takes for the hurt, basically.

It's costing me in my chess game. All right, final story, how about this guy? Ben Simmons, remember him? Played 42 games for the Nets this season after missing the entire previous year. His points were 6.9, 6.3 boards, 6.1 assists. 666, do with that what you want. Today he posted this image on

Instagram showing himself back in the gym. Can we see it? Look at Ben. Was it show him hitting a jumper? No, just dribbled. I know he can dribble. I know he's got abs. Can he hit a jumper? What do I get from that? Tough year for Ben Simmons. He was engaged to this

extremely attractive. Yeah, he won't even take a jumper. He was engaged to a very attractive woman. He's a rich pro athlete. Yes, and that did not work out for him. You're talking to Jenner? No, no, no, no. There was some other woman. I follow her on Instagram.

She's attractive. I don't know what her job is, but Ben Simmons, it's all falling apart. The basketball, the social life, he's kind of ostracized. He can't go on his phone now. And you can't open social media for Ben Simpson. You're getting killed every day by millions of people. That's on Ben Simmons. I know. Can you imagine

a basketball player afraid to shoot? That'd be like me coming up to work, afraid to talk. He's afraid to shoot a basketball. Shoot a jumper. It's so odd to me. You know, it's It's one of the, I mean, this was an all-NBA player, first overall pick. Yeah, people forget this. Ben Simmons' first three years in the league, we were looking at something special.

He was supposed to be Magic Johnson-ish. He made all-N-B-A, didn't he? It wasn't like he was a bust. He was a great young player. Vision, handle, size, leg, a great defender. People on the internet act like he didn't have success. He came into this league and was like, whoa, 6-10 rookie handles, dunk, score, defend.

The one thing I missed was at LSU, he could not make the NCAA tournament. Yeah, he, that's right. And I kind of was like, that's pretty damn weak. Can't make the tournament? Everybody, I have 60 whatever teams make the tournament. It's like, but I wrote it off because I was a big Ben Simmons guy,

and it just, it's gone down. It's just one of the more sad stories. He's still in his 20s, Colin. I know. It's got a long way to go. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The herd lie news. more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast inside the Parker for 22 minutes of piping hot baseball talk featuring the biggest names and newsmakers in the sport. Whether you believe in analytics or the I-Test, we've got all the bases covered. New episodes drop every Thursday. So do yourself a favor

and listen to Inside the Parker with Rob Parker on the IHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good Navian tankless water heaters. Right now save federal tax rebates. Find your Navian contractor at tankless made simple.com. good to have you in today. So the PGA tour, we don't lead with golf very often, but the PGA tour, very sanctimonious initially with the live golf tour, has now merged with a live golf tour.

And for the uninitiated, basically many of the stars left the PGA tour. Still welcome to golf at some of the PGA events. Brooks Kepka just won the PGA championship, I think again. So, but what happened is the live golf tour needed a better TV arrangement. And the PGA tour was missing at stars. Now, if Tiger Woods, we go back 15 years and this would have happened and Tiger Woods was in his prime and he was a huge television draw, the PGA tour probably doesn't do this. But I think some of this it feels like is Phil Mickelson remains a captivating figure, controversial, polarizing. Brooks Kepka, Dustin Johnson.

These are good-looking, long off the tea, confident golfers, have a certain swagger. And when they're not on your TV set, so I think my guess is with Alan Shipnook, who will be joining us in a second, he has an understanding about it. I think both sides win something. But, you know, the PGA tour was very heavy-handed in its criticism of golfers for taking the money, which was always my pushback. I don't have to love everything about the Live Golf Tour. I, you know, the 9-11 is part of our country's sad history.

And but even despite that, I know our government is aligned and has been forever with Middle Eastern money. So, you know, there's a lot of relationships that I just, I think as I've gotten older, I figured out that there's so much gray area out there. I don't want to be too preachy and sanctimonious all this. stuff. And there were a lot of people on the golf channel and a lot of people out there that just washed their hands of it. It's outrageous. Took a moral stance on it, which you're allowed to do, but that stuff can come back to bite you. And there's some people on the golf channel today.

It's interesting. The golfers, some of the golfers are in a meeting later today. You've read about that. Now, you're on the internet more than I am during the show. What are they saying today? Yeah, the meeting's supposed to be going down here, I guess, in the next hour. Or maybe it is just kicked off at 11, but I think there's going to be some outraged golfers. Some of these guys turned down large. I'm talking not six figures. We're talking eight, nine figures. Well, Rory McElroy had to have been offered over 100 millions. Yeah. And PGA kind of convinced him, hey, don't, don't take it. Stay with us. And now they merge. Like, I don't know how you justify that. Tiger Woods was offered reportedly nine figures. Now, it is easy to say that Tiger

had all the money in the world, so he didn't need to. Alan Shipnuck, his last book was Phil the rip-roaring, unauthorized biography of golf's most colorful superstar, which was a, I gobbled that thing up in about six hours. He was writing another book, Live and Let Die, The Inside Story of the War between the PGA Tour and Live Golf. He may have to rewrite the last chapter. So I don't mean to laugh, but it's like, wow.

So Alan, you're an expert on this stuff. Why did the news come out today? Today of all days, it's hard to pinpoint, but there's been this, there's been a lot of things happening in the background, including the Department of Justice has ramped up its investigation of potential antitrust violations by the PGA tour. They're serious. They come and they take your phone and they download everything you've ever typed or thought. And they were doing that to players, agents, executives. There was a simultaneous lawsuit that's been grinding on. and that was on the Ninth Circuit Court,

and the public investment fund was potentially going to have to open up its books. It's a very secretive, shadowy organization. Neither side wanted this kind of scrutiny. At the same time, you had Liv Golf put a huge charge in the Masters. Those are the best final round ratings in years. Brooks Keppko won the PGA championship. The landscape was shifting rapidly. And I think the PGA tour was losing sponsors.

Honda pulled out. AT&T pulled out of the Byron Nelson, both sides were basically on this, she's an old Cold War term, mutually assured destruction. The PJ tour was running out of money. They were squeezing their sponsors and the sponsors were pushing back. Liv had put an incredible amount into launching, but their TV ratings on the CW were abysmal, and I think they were realizing there was a limit to their audience. So it just, at some point, it made sense to put the game back together. And, you know, a guy named Jimmy Dunn has been instrumental in all this. He's on the, he's on the policy board of the PGA tour and he's kind of this ultimate insider. He's a member at every

club you can think of. And he did not have the baggage of Jay Monahan who had been, you know, demonizing the Saudi leadership. And so Jimmy Dunn was talking behind the scenes with, with Yasser al-Rumayin, the guy who runs the public investment fund and who live has been his baby all along. And they very quickly hammered something out. So it's, you can't emphasize how secret of this process has been. I mean, Greg Norman didn't know about it. it until this morning, Lori McElroy, Tiger Woods. They all got phone calls this morning saying, hey, this is happening. And it's real stagecraft and brinksmanship that made this happen. And of course, there's many details that still need to be worked out. But it's a monumental

moment for professional golf. And, you know, this was already the rise of live is the biggest golf story this decade, not involving Tiger Woods. And maybe this century. And it just, It just keeps going. I mean, it's a stunning conclusion, but you know, the war is over, but now they have to win the piece. And there's so much to figure out, and there's so many winners and losers in this. And it's going to be a fascinating process on the coming months as they try and put the game back together. Alan Chipnuck, great writer. He's a partner in the Fire Pit Collective, a golf media company.

I didn't like the sanctimony of it. My takeaway was, and I said this top of the show, is when anybody goes into the morals and values, I'm like, listen. You don't know who these leagues are in business with. If you go deep into the billionaire pockets of professional sports owners in the English Premier League or in the NFL, there's a lot of stuff. To your point, they don't want the books open. You know, baseball owners haven't wanted those books opened forever. Do you think the PGA Tour regrets a little bit of their sanctimony and a little bit of their preachingness today? Yeah, the tour, some of the talent on the Golf Channel,

many of the players, an army of trolls on Twitter. It was always hollow, right? I mean, the European PGA tour would have gone out of business a long time ago if it was not hosting its biggest money events in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Turkey, China.

Yep. That tour stayed in business playing in these places with autocratic governments. And it's always been a factor in the sports world. I mean, you mentioned the EPL. I mean, half of those teams in the English Premier League are now owned by Saudi Arabia or other Middle Eastern interests.

And so it always felt a little hollow and a little sanctimonias. Now, it's certainly okay to have qualms and questions about where the money is coming from as an individual, as a citizen. but institutionally, I mean, the tour's biggest sponsors, Coca-Cola, FedEx, Morgan Stanley, they all do business in Saudi Arabia. They have for a long time. So the lines got very blurry, and I think that was part of what Jay Monaghan realized. You know, his first, his messaging has been muddled all along, the PJ Tour Commissioner. At first, it was legacy, not leverage.

You know, the PJ Tour, his history is so rich. This is all that matters. Stay here and play our tournaments. all the players took the live money then it was like okay you've never had to apologize for being a pGA tour member you know he tried the morality guys still left you know the only way he was able to keep his stars was with money they went to these elevated events they reshaped the schedule they put in the slush fund the player impact program money always wins and you know that's really one of the headlines from today and so the tour they tried they trotted out every argument they could ultimately

they just realized, you know what, we can't beat these guys dollar for dollar, so let's just join them. Yeah. So for the sanctimonious and the finger waggers, it's a tough day. I mean, it's still, there's still some, you know, there's plenty of golf fans who feel betrayed, who, you know, they've, and it's part of modern life, right? There's very little nuance. You have to pick a side and you have to defend it to the death. And so you either pro tour or pro live. And that was it. And I tried to always stay in the middle and I was getting shrapmel from both sides. It's like it's, you really, you had to pick your, you had to pick a side. And so the players who are the fans or the stakeholders who, you know, like the PJ Tour and wanted to stay loyal to the PG Tour, they had to buy into this, this moralistic argument.

But it never quite held up. And today has made that plain. Yeah. I think, as you said, it was a hollow argument. And I think your point about the European tour, I did not know that. That's a, that's a station point as usual. He's a great golf rider, a partner in the fire pit, collective, check it out at golf media company. He's got a new book, Live and Let Die,

the inside story of the war between the PGA tour and Live Golf. I've only got two minutes left. How much of this do you have to, do you have to rewrite the last chapter or something? I'm just, I mean, seriously. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you do? Yeah. No, I mean, it's been, it's been a funny subtext, all this. I turned the book in Sunday night at two in the morning. I'm working out for a year. I was bleeding on the keyboard. It has been such an effort to get this book done. but there's always some jitters because even though the book comes out on Halloween, which is a short lead time for a book these days, always knowing things could change.

And the whole last chapter I was peering into the crystal ball predicting this merger, what it would look like, how it would play out. And so I'm actually happy there's a resolution. Instead of guessing, I can write authoritatively. I'll think that would happen behind the scenes and bring it all to life. And it's a perfect exclamation point on a very demanding, project, but also this crazy moment in golf history. The last year has been bonkers. And so this just takes a whole new level. Alan, what a pleasure. You made time for us. One of the premier

golf writers on the planet, Alan, your work is great. And his book, The Rip Roaring and Unauthorized biography of Golf's Most Colorful Superstall, Phil Mickelson may not like it. It is a fast, funny, informative read. I went through it on a quick plane flight. I devoured it. It's a great, fascinating.

It made me like Phil Moore. He's totally flawed, aren't we all? But it's fascinating. And Alan, we got to run. Thank you so much. Okay.

Thanks for having me. Yeah, the Phil book is, it's warts and all about Phil, but I thought, you think you know everything about Phil Mickelson, and then you read the book. And you're like,

wow. Yeah. And he's yeah, Phil was the one that kind of got this thing going. Phil was complaining about the PGA tour and the handling of it stars 10 years ago. So it was easy to just jump on Phil for the money. And I don't know Phil at all. I've met Tiger a couple of times. But, you know, Phil Mickelson, I'll tell you, when he got the news this morning,

Phil Mickelson pumped the fist a few times. He was proven right. In the end, it was all about the money. Players got it. PGA said, For the record, Alan Shipnuck said, PGA was running out of money. Why? Because we watch for the stars. It's like Kevin Durano says, you guys are casuals. Damn straight. We have a life. We watch the playoffs. We don't watch the regular season. You got to have stars to get most people to a television.

Simply Save Never rests on its laurels. Always innovating right now 20% off your new system. SimplySaveColin.com. They've got the new two and one smoke and CO detector. Distinguishes between fire and cooking smoke so you get fewer false alarms. Okay. J. Mack, that was a show today, baby. Hell of a show. Bringing it. On fire.

You came out just... Roaring. Haymakers. You came out like early Tyson just coming out, just swinging, yeah. Knockout. Had no interest getting to the fourth round. That's a good show. I thought you would be losing steam coming off the Iceland trip, you know, a little fatigue.

Like when you go to altitude at Denver or off in the... playoffs you get a little tired game two nice showing from you today thank you oh appreciate that appreciate your support uh first things first uh is around the corner for all of us here i want to thank alan shipnuck again made time for us he's somewhere near a golf course it's the herd another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumored me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from bob odenkirk to david letterman help make you funnier this week my guest S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast is. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth.

Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits,

my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast.

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