The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-HOUR-3-Jets, Cowboys

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

The Jets are the worst team in the NFLMore on the Cowboys locker room dysfunctionGuests: Jonathan Vilma, Jane Slater Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

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We're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Michelin, Endurance XT, silicone wiper blades. Weather's getting bad around the country. Last two times longer, available only at Walmart. Jonathan Vilma played a decade in the NFL. He was a three-time pro bowler.

He's in the Saints Hall of Fame. And now we're lucky enough to have him as a Fox Sports NFL analyst. He'll be doing the Packers Texans game this week. It's one of my favorite bets of the year. I'll tell you now, I like Green Bay in this game. The reason is always good teams that get humiliated have an ornery week of practice. And I'm going to bring Jonathan in because he's going to be doing that game. And he is now joining us live, Fox Sports, 10th, NFL analyst.

So I am sure in your career, Saints and Jets, you were on some good teams and you laid an egg, you got pushed around. It just, it happens, man, a couple of turnovers. You're on the road. Boom, it's done. What has Packer practice been like this week? What is it like to be a good team? Because bad teams get blown out all the time, but on a good team that gets blown out. You know, it's actually very player-driven this week because good teams have prideful players.

They don't like getting embarrassed. Aaron Rogers doesn't like getting embarrassed. I've been on teams where I got pushed around by the Baltimore Ravens, had to play the Atlanta Falcons in Atlanta on a Monday night to secure a playoff spot. And that whole week was about Drew Brees and myself figuring out, okay, we need to make these corrections and get it done. done. It was less about the coaches, you know, coming down on us with the cracking the whip, because we knew what we need to do. We're very prideful. So something like Aaron Rogers, I promise you, he's getting the receivers together, the tight ends together, offensive line to block better. There's not a lot of screaming and yelling going on. It's a lot of focus. It's a

lot of driven, player-driven focus because there's a prideful team that's going to now, I mean, watch out. You just mentioned, watch out Houston because there's a team that is pissed off and ready to go. Interesting answer. So, John, Jonathan, there's a difference between not all locker rooms are great. Most are. I think most locker rooms, if you've got a problem with a coach or a coordinator, you confront him. That's just kind of what we do, right?

But now Dallas has leaks publicly. And I said this earlier. It doesn't matter if it's a White House or a football team or a corporation. If there's leaks, somebody doubts the guy at the top. Somebody's questioning leadership. Have you ever been in a locker room in your 10 years when stuff was leaking? And, I mean, I don't know how, what do you do if you're a player and you're in the middle of a season.

You could still win their division. Like if you ever had to confront that leaks from your locker room. I had to confront it one time with the Jets, and it was really just addressing the whole team because you never really know who's saying it. But you mentioned that there's no trust in the leadership. What the real issue is, is there's no family trust amongst a team

because you have a bunch of individual contractors right now. The best teams I've been a part of, whether it was a college or in the NFL, the teams had trust. It was a family atmosphere. So you handle things like a family, right? You get an argument with your brother or sister. It stays right there. You don't go and tell the next person that you've never met before, some reporter about the fight you just had with your brother. That's not what you do.

You have the fight. You squash it, and then you figure out how to move on. And right now, the first issue, the biggest issue is that Mike McCarthy has not gained the trust of his team. And because of that, he has a bunch of individual contractors and players, coaches as well. Everyone is looking out for self right now as opposed to figuring out a way to come together as a family and get the job done. Did you ever have a coach? You don't have to name him because some of the quotes were these coaches don't teach. Did you ever have a coach, a position coach, in your career that you just thought was bad at his job?

I did. I won't name names. And what they mean by they don't teach. you have coaches going back to this, you know, looking out for self now, what the coaches will do, and I've been in this situation before, they will purposely not put you in the best position to be productive and make place. And why are they doing that? Because when assessment time comes at the end of the year, whenever it is for them, they're going to say, oh, I didn't have the right players.

If you can be the right players, then I can run my scheme. And if I have the right players to run my scheme, then we can win games. So right now, you're giving me players that I can't use to win games. I can't coach with these guys. They're uncoachable. They're this or that. And that's where some of the, if you want to dive deeper, where some of these players are saying they don't teach, that could be one of the issues. The other issue could be, they just stink.

They're just bad coaches. That could be another issue. I don't know what's going on specifically. But I've seen the former of what I talked about where coaches purposely not allowing you to be in a position to make plays so that when a, a son, assessment time comes, they're telling everyone else, oh, yeah, he was uncoachable. Yeah, yeah, give me somebody else. Give me a better guy, and then I can coach him up and we can go.

That's really fascinating. And you know that happens. I mean, that's happening in every industry, protectionism, protect my stuff, protect my career. Jonathan Vilma joining us. So it's interesting. We all know, too is the future of the dolphins. Like, we get it.

But if I was a veteran player, I'm not really interested in the growth thing. I want to win Sunday. And Ryan Fitzpatrick's winning games. And I'm thinking, I love Tua. but that's a kid, and I like my man, who's been in the league 10 years plus, do you think there's a few guys in the Dolphins locker room? They may like to him, but they're like, you're not as good as Ryan Fitzpatrick today.

He may be in a year, but he doesn't help us Sunday. Do you think there's a little bit of that? Well, here's the question. Is Ryan Fitzpatrick really going to give you another six, seven, eight wins? Is he really going to rip that off? Because if he was consistently always able to give you six, six, seven, eight, nine wins a year, then there wouldn't be this issue of having the number five pick being drafted by the dolphins, right? So if I'm a veteran, I'm saying, yeah, hey, Fitzpatrick

has been great. Fitzpatrick has been great the past couple weeks. But I also know there could be three or four weeks where we're just scratching our heads like, man, what is he doing out there, right? And that's the truth. That's been his career. He's had some great games. He's had some horrible games. And so you're looking and saying, well, that's the future. What I believe is happened. Same thing that happened with Tua back in college is that he's performing so well in practice. They're like, we got to play him. Remember, Jalen Hertz, he is, he led Alabama to a national title or close to it, lost only two games. They bench him at half time with a national championship game because they're like, we got to play this guy. He is that good. He's the number five

pick after being hurt. Everyone knows the arm talent is there. They're smarts are there. So I can understand why they're like, look, we got to play this guy. Just get him out there. Let's go. Yeah. I trust Brian Flores. He's been right so far. So I have no reason not to trust him. So it's interesting. I was talking earlier about this. Belichick's a great coach, obviously, but he struggles drafting wide receivers. Nikiel Harry is, I mean, there's been like seven receivers drafted after Kiel Harry, and they're all great. They're not even just after. They're great.

And is Nikiel Harry a bust? Who knows? I don't. But he's struggling. How long did it take you, Jonathan? as an NFL player, a smart guy that you were in the NFL, to look around and go, that dude can't play. Like that, and I'm not saying to Kiel Harry's a bust yet, but how long did it take players to spot a guy, a first rounder, a second rounder and thing, man, dude, he just can't, he can't play.

So there's two ways to look at. If it's the first way where he just doesn't have the athleticism, you spot that, you know, like that. You're like, uh-oh, this was a. This is just a bad pick. He can't run. It's like he can't run. He's not physical.

You know, one of these combinations, right? And that we can spot quickly. The tough one is if he has all the ability and you're saying, all right, when is the light going to turn on in his head? When is the NFL light going to turn on his head? Yeah. Where he's like, all right, I got it. And it takes some time for some guys, right?

And, you know, a great example. I go back to one of my good friends, former teammate, Reggie Wayne. Remember, Reggie Wayne's first year, first couple of years, everyone's like, eh, what's going on? And then Reggie Wayne, boom, turned it on, should be a Hall of Famer sooner than later. So, you know, you just never really know if it's the mental part. If it's the athletic part, which I don't think it is, you know, athletically then is not there. And I'd be very surprised that Belichick missed on the athleticism. It's all the other intangibles that may not be showing up just yet.

Yeah, by the way, you were a defensive rookie of the year. So you were a guy that popped very, very early out of Miami. Finally, I've been critical of Baker-Mayfield. I said it before. If I'm going to take a quarterback number one, there's got to be something. If you'd have taken Lamar number one, even if I didn't agree, I would say, well, he's going to be the fastest player in his team. Josh Allen, I had real questions about, but he's 6-6 with a huge arm.

Like, I wouldn't have agreed with it, but I'm like, I get it. I've always said this with Baker. He's a little small. He's not very accurate. He's not that athletic. I don't love some of the leaders. I am not a big fan of some of that stuff. I watched him last week, and he looked overwhelmed.

I mean, he looked absolutely physically overwhelmed. They're not going to announce it, but do you think there are people, 25% of his wins in the NFL or against Cincinnati, do you think there are players on that roster that are like, dude, we got nothing but talent here? We got nothing but players here. Do you think there's doubt creeping in on Baker in that huddle on Sundays? Man, that's a good question.

there there's definitely doubt creeping in what the best thing you mentioned though was all the other intangibles his character his leadership qualities his skill set you know those all start to play a factor when you talk about doubt because it's one thing to just not have a good game it's one thing to you know you just you're just off right you just off for that day and it's not working it bench you and whatever it is it's another thing when you make it a point to be out in the media You know, you make it a point to have these, you know, real boisterous kind of celebrations and stuff like that. And a lot of this attention is on you. And I'm saying as a quarterback, you already know the attention is on you.

You get all the attention. You're the quarterback of one of 32 teams in the NFL. You don't need extra attention. What you need to do is lead and be a great teammate because as you perform, the attention is going to come to you anyway. And so that's where the doubt starts to set in. when there's all these other extracurricular things going on, and you're trying to figure out, man, just play ball. If you just play ball, like you mentioned, Lamar Jackson,

you just plays ball and look how much attention comes to him. All he cares about is just playing good football, being a good teammate. He gets all of everything else. So if there's ever doubt, if he has a bad game, all his teammates are going to rally around him because he rallies around them. And I don't get the sense from Baker Mayfield

that he rallies around his teammates. He really wants to be a team player. and in essence, that's where the doubt is starting to set in. Such good stuff. Jonathan Vilma Fox Sports, lucky to have you. He's got the Packers Texans game Sunday at 1 on Fox. Happy for you. You put the time in man as a player and as a broadcaster,

and I really appreciate it, Jonathan. Thanks for coming on the show. No, anytime, anytime. Any week, let me know. All right, Jonathan Vilma, he was great early. He walked into the league and it was like, okay, all right, that guy can play. But it is interesting.

Reggie Wayne was a great example, because Reggie's a Hall of Famer. but his first couple years in the league, and it does take time. Like, like, and then you get lucky. D.K. Metcalf is lucky to get Russell Wilson. You give him Kirk Cousins, it may take two or three or four years. Like, sometimes it's breaks.

Like, oh, I got the right coach. You walk into the league and it's like, oh, Sean McVease my coach. Like, there's a lot of different factors. Very rarely there's a guy walk in as a rookie and you're like, whoa, Khalil Mack was like that. Like, they're just so gifted. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. Yep, that's me. Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skisks. gets, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you're just so you. y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So, you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important

year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

Steve Burns. Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood,

pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Joy with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Stan Van Gundy, I just want to get to this really quickly. Stan Van Gundy has been announced as the new head coach of the New Orleans Pelicans.

Young team? Yes, according to Woj, the Pelicans were sold on Stan's abilities as a teacher with a young roster and his history of building top defensive teams and his vision for the roster that's in place. His personnel decisions in Detroit were a non-fact in the search. he's coming to coach. So he will be the new head coach of the New Orleans Pelicans. So Aaron Rogers and the

Bucks defensive tackle and Domican Sioux had an on-field exchange Sunday. I know. I always said. I don't think it's air appropriate, but it was the first time that's not the first time that they butted heads. And on Tuesday, Aaron was on

Pat McAfee show and he said he'd hope to bury the hatchet with the guy who once buried a cleat into Rogers' lower leg. there was a little conversation in the third quarter and this is where I say sometimes it goes to more slightly more cordial after it's hostile I was on the impression we were going to have a conversation after the game

there's one of those, hey, you're old, I'm old, let's talk some things out. I was looking for that conversation I didn't know how I was going to go. I didn't think it was going to like, look, I'm not going to fight Indomacu. Not going to fight Indomacin Su. Yeah, I don't know many people in life that want to fight in Domenu, so that's a good choice out of him, Now, that was, if I recall, that was a penalty.

That should be a penalty. You can't do that. Now, that's not a penalty. That wasn't. But I do believe one of them was. He did get sacked once by Sue, and he was sacked four times on Sunday. And they face each other, obviously, quite often when in Domican Sue was with the Lions. He has three and a half three years sacks against Rogers.

They were, so this, I think, was when, I don't know if that was like the hostile one, but I remember them talking, and it was like kind of a little joky. Like, it seems less. Okay, so that was clearly the hostile point, and then there was a point where they had a conversation. This did look a little concerning there for a second. I don't know. If I'm a quarterback, I'm probably not getting into it with endomican Sioux,

or really just any. Yeah, it's the old Andrew Luck thing. Congratulate the defensive lineman. Just be nice. Excellent tackle by you. Don't give them any extra reason, especially Indomacan Su. It gets to put a little extra juice on it, if you will, but it's interesting that they did not talk.

it out after the game. So the Dolphins announced they'll be going forward with Tua as they're starting quarterback going forward. Well, apparently they did not have a very clear conversation with Ryan Fitzpatrick about the change. This is what he had to say. My heart just hurt all day. Like it was it was heartbreaking for me. That's the decision and the direction that the organization is going in. And obviously, you know, we've talked in the past, me and you guys about, you know, how I'm the placeholder. And this eventually was. going to happen. It broke my heart yesterday and, um, they know it's a tough, uh, tough thing for for me to hear. He also said I basically got fired yesterday and my day today consisted of Zoom meetings with the guy who fired me and sitting in a room with the guy who replaced me for

four hours. That's sad. It is, it is. It's a, it's a very human part of the game. Obviously, Ryan Fitzpatrick has been very open and as he said there, like they've had conversations about how this is eventually going to happen. It's kind of telling, though, that he didn't know that this was happening now. So that tells me, if he is this hurt and surprised by the news, that tells me that the original plan wasn't to make this transition. Well, their schedule got changed. Their schedule got changed a little bit so that the biweek ends up different for Miami.

Right. So this is earlier than he had expected. They probably wanted to start to it. They probably, as the staff said, let's start them after the by week. And the by week moved up. Right. So it probably wasn't. change. Yes. So that tells me that this

was not planned weeks ago. Like this is a fluid situation. It does. It hurts to hear that, obviously, because he loves football. He's been incredible for the team. Again, I know Dolphins fans are freaking out. They're so excited to get this wildcard bid. This is a move for the future.

It's the right move. By the way, Tua may be better. Let's just let him play. He may be better. Or he struggles, but either way, you need to find out what he is. And that's the reason why that decision was made. So the Dodgers defeated Tampa Bay Rays by 8 to 3 in last night's game one of the 2020 World Series. Clayton Shershaw was trying to battle those postseason demons and had a stellar performance. He also passed John Smoltz for the second most strikeouts in postseason history with 201 and is close to passing Justin Verlander, who is number one with 205.

So he will likely do that in this series. Smoltz may be the best analyst in American television. He may be the best, any sport, anybody. He may be as good as anybody that's ever done it. He is incredible. Bets also went, Mookiee Beds had an amazing night. He went two for four with a home run and a walk. He also stole two bases.

One of those got America free tacos. So everyone was very excited about that. Yes. They stole three bases that inning in total, which made them the first team since 1912 to do that in a World Series. To your point. Old school baseball. Great.

But we love it. So tune in tonight to FS1 at 7 Eastern for World Series Game 2 pregame and follow us over to Fox at 730 Eastern for Game 2 of the World Series. Great stuff. Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Line News. Jane Slater, Cowboy Reporter, NFL Network, broke the story, leaks from the Cowboys.

We go to Jane, excellent reporter next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite

therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

We don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free. iHeartRadio app search learn the hard way and listen now don't let age beat you visit mdrive for men.com

today the only supplement for driven men mdrivefermen.com Walgreens has it too. Jane Slater's a reporter for the NFL network. She's been covering the cowboys for years. I've got her on a podcast network. It's called the Boys and Girl podcast. I think that's clever. And she broke the story, not a surprise. Yesterday players talking, leaking stuff. And that's what reporters do. And she's a great when Jane Slater is now joining us live. from Dallas. So let's start with this. I guess I can ask this question. Is it a player? Multiple players, Jane. What's the layering on this? How substantial, if I may, are the leaks? To be fair, Colin, there has already been an attempt to sort of identify who that leak is or who

those leaks are today. And I think in the interest of this being a new coaching staff and, of course, player security. I think it's just best I don't comment on that. Here's what I will say. It was enough that I felt that this had permeated through the locker room and that there was a distrust and a break away from this coaching staff. And all you have to do is pop in the tape, Colin. I mean, you can look at the lack of effort, the sort of moving away from the philosophy on different sides of the ball. There was a give up factor that we hadn't seen before. And so it really started with an on-the-record statement that sort of raised an alarm for me. And that was from Jalen Smith a couple of weeks ago when he said, you know, maybe we should simplify this playbook.

And Colin, you've been covering sports for a while. When you've got a new coaching staff, you're not used to hearing players go on the record and question the direction of it. By saying we should simplify the playbook, I thought it was a little disrespectful. And so I've been trying to dig on this, but as Mike has been talking about over the last 12 hours, he's been very intent on keeping things in house. But this is something I think that even though in the last 12 hours, he says he has an open door policy, you can come to him. I may agree with you. I may disagree with you. I don't know if that has been fully conveyed in this condensed situation as it relates to COVID and training camp.

And the amount of time and the amount of touch points that this coaching staff. has had with these guys. But it's been enough that there's a frustration that you don't need to hear it from players. You can see it. It just got confirmed. Is it more Mike Nolan or McCarthy? Because listen, coaches make bad hires. I mean, you know, not every coordinator works. I mean, is it, do you believe it's players upset with Nolan or McCarthy? Well, McCarthy is the guy that is empowering Mike Nolan. I mean, McCarthy is a guy that's empowering Kellyn Moore. McCarthy is a guy that's empowering your secondary coach. coaches, McCarthy's a guy that's empowering your offensive line.

I mean, this literally translates to both sides of the ball. So I know a lot of people are pointing fingers and saying, well, because Jalen Smith made that comment, he's got to be the source. Back up here. There's a lot of guys in that locker room who today, they're beginning to talk. Sean Lee had a statement that came out where the consensus in our locker room is that we all need to work hard. We all need to improve.

We're not pointing fingers. Nobody is going to go on a record and put their name on this. There's no incentive in doing that. But there has absolutely been a feeling in this locker room as it relates to this new coaching staff that this is not a direction they feel good about. But more importantly, that they don't feel like these coaches can teach. They don't make on-the-fly adjustments and that the guys aren't prepared. I think that that is, to me, the spirit of the report was injuries are one thing. And that's one way to lose your players.

But to lose your player six games into the season, that is a whole other thing. Now, with that being said, you know, Mike, I'm sure didn't love the report. And again, he just kept saying, as men, we need to handle this in-house. You know, I did ask him, do you think maybe you guys try to reinvent the will a little too soon, do a little too much given, again, the challenges that come with COVID, not fully getting a handle of your personnel? And he said, look, they've gone to the table. In fact, he said after the second game, they did simplify the playbook. I get the sense they're trying to make adjustments. But he also said, these guys have got to at least try things that they haven't done in the past. I mean, we had guys like Everson Griffin a couple weeks ago saying he wasn't doing the three-point stance anymore.

You know, you had Mike McCarthy even going on the record and saying it felt like guys were improvising and they needed to buy in. So this wasn't necessarily a shocking report. and nobody that's been on this beat is necessarily shocked by it. I think the shocking aspect is players felt compelled enough that this stuff is no longer staying in house. They're very deep at wide receiver I suggested today. This is really more of a rebuild than they'd like to admit. And Michael Gallop's going to get paid eventually. Amari's not going anywhere.

C.D. Lam's not going anywhere. And Cedric Wilson can flat out play that maybe Gallop to the Bears, gallop to the Ravens, good playoff teams potentially that need a number two receiver. that would be acknowledging, hey, we're deep at receiver. We've got to get draft picks and rebuild. Do you think anybody in that organization, about three and a half minutes left, believes they're a rebuilding roster? Because I'm starting to think this is what they are at this point.

They're much closer to rebuild than they want to admit. I agree with you in that respect. I do believe that Hope Springs Eternal in Frisco as it relates to the Cowboys. And Jerry Jones will never say that to you. And neither will Stephen Jones. But that's certainly what it feels like. Maybe that's not a bad thing, Colin. I think what you've got here is you do need to find some more guys that are Mike guys.

You need to get guys that buy into the Mike philosophy. And some of that happens with drafts, some of that, you know, comes with bringing guys in through free agency. And by the way, you were able to get some of those this offseason. He might need some more of those to buy into what he's trying to do here. I do think that one of the glaring deficiencies, though, on this staff is this defense. I don't know if trying to change this defense, given the abbreviated time that they had and some of the personnel made the most sense. I've talked to some people around the league as even this report came out that said, as it speaks to Mike Nolan as the defensive coordinator, they don't know why this guy is a defensive coordinator.

Now, they say a lot of lovely things about him as a human, but in terms of this role, he's a little over his skis. And if you look at his record and other stops as a defensive coordinator and even this team back in 2005, when Mike McCarthy, and Mike know Linda were together. It's very, it's very much trending in the same direction. Yes. And so I know that this is McCarthy's guy. They worked together in San Francisco. I didn't think it was, we typically hear Jerry really go to bat for these guys. He said, I'm okay with Mike this week. That didn't seem like a ringing endorsement to me. So I think what people are trying to figure out, well, what are they going to do? How are they going to save the season? I don't think they're going to be overly reactive. I think there's a long leash on, on Mike McCarthy as

it relates to this year and the challenges that he's been up against. I mean, 10 guys on IR, you've got Zach Martin who's in concussion protocol, another left tackle that just had surgery. So you've got a lot of problems there. But I do think that one is one of your more glaring issues that you're going to have to address moving forward. And maybe that happens during the bye week. Maybe Mike McCarthy gets more involved. Maybe George Edwards gets more involved. Something's got to give there. But again, going back to your question, I think this also, opens up a whole discussion about Dak Prescott. A lot of people are saying

well his number has gone up because clearly he's the X factory as the intangibles the leadership is lacking with him just gone one week. People are talking. I agree with you, but I also think the Cowboys are still going to have that argument and that argument's going to even be stronger. How can you build a championship team

if you're overpaying your quarterback and you have got a lot of spots on this roster you've now got to address as a result of so many guys that went on IR. So it does feel like they're in rebuilding mode just based on that alone. Jane Slater, great stuff. NFL Network covering the Cowboys Boys and Girls Podcast on the Herd Podcast Network. She's terrific. Broke the story. Players trust her, obviously. And it's great seeing you, Jane. Thank you so much. Always good seeing you, Colin. Yeah, her and Bobby Belt do that podcast. They're terrific

together. You know, it is interesting, too, that we live, there's so much transparency now. You know, Google changed everything. You can just go look up a guy's resume. You know, before a guy could say, hey, I was, ooh, I did this. You know, you can find out a guy's whole history in about 90 seconds now on Google. And that's one of the things she pointed out. You go back and look at Mike Nolan and dig some stuff up. And it's like it's starting to look like a Mike Nolan defense.

He was a linebacker coach. So, you know, he worked with McCart. There's just so, even in recruiting, you can't fool kids anymore. It's like, yeah, I know what your campus looks like. Yeah, we have the receipts now. Everybody's got the receipts. There's no more big sales pitches in recruiting. It's like, no, that's your campus.

I can see it on Google Maps. Yep. And I like their campus. Their campus has way more cool things. All right, good stuff. Joy Taylor and everybody here. MDrive for Men.com. MDrive from N.com. Check it out.

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