The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - Lakers-Grizzlies

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

There's a story out that CJ Stroud is difficult to coach Thoughts on the Lakers-Grizzlies upcoming series Guest: Chris BroussardSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

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Now let's get this party started. listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. It's our number three. Live in L.A. It's the hurt. So I had nightmares last night. Weird nightmares. My wife says I swear when I sleep,

which is, I didn't know I was that grumpy. I mean, I swear when I'm awake, but I'm never, you guys have never seen me mad. I'm not like a mad guy. But my wife says I sleep and I have, I don't think of myself as a nightmare guy, but I guess I have a lot of nightmares. Last night, I had these weird.

vibe, somebody was breaking in, because I'm by myself in the house for a few days. It was creepy. And it was like real. Like I could feel like I could hear noises and footstep. Then I wake up and I'm like, what is going on? Crazy Town. What's going on? It sounds like a regular Tuesday night for me.

I'm not a good sleeper call. You're not. Well, you got a lot going on in your head. You got little kids. So when I had little. They're 10 and 12. Oh, that's little. Okay.

Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. But I've also got the men's league basketball playoffs this weekend. And that makes you sleep. bad. Well, I mean, and a lot of the guys are watching, but like, I'll have to go to, I always have to go to the bathroom at night. And then when I lay back down, I'm like, all right, we played this team. We crushed them. But it's never easy to beat a team you just crushed. I remember this guy's good. And this is going through my head. So then I stop. And I'm like, all right. And what I've been told to do, because I've seen some sleep coaches is, you know, count backwards from 100 to 1 while taking deep breaths. And usually I get to like, 95 and I'm not like, wait a minute. I got to bet the Warriors Kings. And I got to start over.

So you don't worry about this show. It's your men's league. The show's easy, man. It's fun. We're talking sports. You're having fun. Now, if you start turning the tide, I'll probably get a little nervous. Your men's league is, you're just literally struggling.

These stories write themselves, Colin. Everything. I mean, NBA playoffs are starting this weekend. We'll have content galore. How about Saturday? It's like four games. Yeah, NFL draft is right around the corner. Do you know the Lakers' T-Wolves game?

The playing game, and it was hard. Hard to watch. It was ugly. I mean, the second half was ugly basketball. Of the 47 bowl games, all the bowl games, and the college playoff, 47 games. That Laker playing awful game, one of the ugliest second halves you'll ever see it beat all but seven college football, bowl games or playoff games. Wow. I did not read.

Doubled most of them. It's tricky because that game was on TNT. Yeah. Okay, cable. Are some of these bowl games on ABC? See, they're not on network. Wow, they're mostly on cable. I don't watch irrelevant bowls.

I mean, I just watch the ones. But it just goes to show you that the NBA is dead. It set an attendance record, and the Lakers T. Wolves playing game beat 40 of the 47 bowl games. Bull games are a big deal. Like, they're heavily promoted by companies, towns, networks. But there's no urgency. It's an exhibition game. This Lakers game was massive.

You don't want to lose and then, you know, play again. But it's, NBA is fine. I mean, like, I struggle at, I tell you, I get on the traditions. and watch half an NBA game a night when I get on the treadmill. It's hard for me to watch sometimes a lot. I make sure I watch the Celtics or the Cavs or the Warriors, like good teams. If a Western team's out east, I'll watch or, you know, I want to see the Sixers and the best teams.

But these playoff games, you get locked in. They are, you've got guys fighting through screens and these players, they are, this is like big time. I know we have a big Friday night planned, but Hawks Heat is kind of a big game on Friday. That's an elimination game. Somebody's going home. Atlanta. Probably.

I'm sorry, not Hawks Heat. It's Heat. Bulls. Bulls. Yeah. Zach Levine. That's who I'm very nervous about. What's the line on that?

I'll make my bet right now. I think I saw five and a half heat. You're on a hot street. Four and a half. So the heat get five and a half. Remember, Chicago had to travel to Toronto. Oh, I know. Back to Chicago.

Now down to South Beach. No, no. So Miami gets five and a half. That's the line? Miami's favored by five and a half. Oh, Miami's favored by five and a half. They're at home. Yeah, Miami's going to win that game.

I would agree. Yeah, and I think Chicago's going to come back to that. Zach Levine's not going to play like that. Miami, by the way, Miami played good in the second half. They were terrible in the first half. They were terrible. So you know what they're going to do when they come home. They're going to have a great first half.

They're going to jump on Chicago. It's going to be tough. Zach Levine, I trust you. By the way, I want to, I'm done talking Zach Levine. So I saw this story. I mean, nothing against Zach Levine, but I talked to him. So Red Flag. NFL personnel, believe Ohio State C.J. Stroud is not easy to coach.

So former exec Mike Lombardi used to work here. He said, C.J. Stroud's an interesting guy, said Lombardi, you talk to people in the league, and they'll tell you C.J. Stroud, it's not a knock. It's a conversation. Not the easiest guy to coach. You know, what I've done is ask people, hey, if you heard C.J. Stroud's not an easy guy to coach, and everybody echoes that back to you. Okay. So then there's a story. today the Texans not a lock to take a quarterback with a number two pick. So who does it benefit for this to be out? It could benefit the Texans to be out.

So if they don't take C.J. Stroud, they don't get crushed because they can say, hey, man, you heard the rumors. This guy's tough to coach. It could benefit the Colts, certainly, right? Because the Colts could be saying, we like C.J. Stroud. We want the bad vibes out there so people pass on him. So who does it benefit? Maybe it doesn't benefit anybody.

It's just the truth. But I've said this before. I watch a lot of Ohio State Big Ten football games, right? So I saw them six times a year. I don't watch all their games, but the big games. Five, six times a year. I never said, wow, with C.J. Stroud. I said, wow, with Buckeye receivers.

I say, wow, a lot with Ohio State. The pass rusher, a great corner. They have great receivers. He didn't make me say, wow. That's my knock. It doesn't mean he's bad. He's accurate. But I think the comp on him is Jared Gough.

And I think it's a great comp, but I think Gough's better. And as good as Gough was this year, nobody sees him as the, you know, you want to get him at him. You want the Lions in the draft the quarterback. So I think the comp is Jared Goff, but I don't think he's nearly as good a thrower as Jared Goff. And I like Jared Goff. I think he's 10, 11, 12th best quarterback in the league. So second, third best quarterback right now, Stafford, Jalen Hertz, and then Jared

Goff would be in a short conversation, third best quarterback in the NFC. So it was interesting yesterday, I thought this was substantial. Jordan Palmer, who coached Mahomes and Josh Allen. He's coached all these guys. He talked about Bryce Young and a conversation that Jordan Palmer had with his friend, Steve Sarkesian. I remember I was talking to Steve Sarkisian. He was at Alabama, and Bryce had just decommitted from USC to commit to Alabama. And I was talking to Sark. Sark was my older brother Carson's quarterback coach at USC. So I go way back with Sark. And he goes, we don't know what we have in Mac Jones because he hasn't played yet, right?

And this is the only high school kid in the country that I've ever recruited. and who I think could step right in as a true freshman and handle being the quarterback at Alabama. The confidence in a Steve Sarkesian to have to play this true freshman if you have to, I just think that's going to be the same thing in the league. So years ago, Bryce Young was in high school in L.A., and there was another great quarterback. There were two five-star quarterbacks. Clemson got one and Alabama got the other. And I remember talking to somebody on USC staff, and I said, if you could choose Bryce Young or the other kid,

who would you choose? And it was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, Bryce Young. I mean, every guy's a five-star guy. And they're like, yeah, but he doesn't see the field as well. He's a big, strong athlete. We're not sure he's going to be a great quarterback. He's really, really talented, but he's not Bryce Young. Like, they put Bryce Young as a junior in high school in a totally different, and both were

five stars out of California. But Bryce was seen in high school, just more alert, more refined, more polished, more mature, better thrower. So this isn't like a new thing. Like Bryce Young, what Sark told Jordan Palmer is what I heard like four years ago in high school, they were like, there were two five-star high school quarterbacks. Everybody was like, oh, Bryce Young's the best one out of this area in years. He's the best quarterback.

In L.A., by the way, Orange County and L.A. County has a lot of good quarterbacks. I mean, Brady's the California kid. Josh Allen is, Aaron Rogers is. This state produces a lot of great high school quarterbacks. The coaching's excellent. The weather's perfect. You can throw year round. the passing camps.

So I just, when I watch C.J. Stroud, I never go, wow. When I watched Bryce Young's high school tape, it's like, wow. I was told by somebody at USC, watch his tape and look for this, this, and this. And you're like, the guy's 17. It's like, wow. Can I ask you if you said, wow, one time or 20 times when C.J. Stroud was playing Georgia to a near stalemate. They led Georgia big on December 31st.

He had 348 yards passing, four touchdowns, no pitch, fix, 67% completions, a 27-yard run. Okay. I said, wow, multiple times. You know what I said? Wow, George's great defense can't cover the Buckeyes receivers. Remember Harrison? Remember that it, I thought Ohio State was the better team that day.

Yeah. They outplayed him. A lot of it had to do with their quarterback. The only time in that game I said, wow, is when he ran for 27 yards. And I didn't go, wow, he's amazingly fast. I said, wow, how come they didn't run him all year? Yeah. It was more of a coaching question than being.

amazed by C.J. Stroud. It was like, why didn't they run him? It wasn't like he flew past people. He kind of ran upright. I wasn't like, wow. It was like, wow. Do they protect him all year? I didn't know he could run. Even Harrison's catches. It's not like he's like having to make incredible plays.

No, he said Stroud was putting the ball in tight windows. He was making great throws. He's very accurate. He is a first round quarterback, you know, does he feel like the second best player you saw in college football? No. I don't think he's the best player on Ohio State's football team.

And this is how you know the Texans are not taking him. In the offseason, they signed Case Keenom. Their two quarterbacks are Davis Mills and Case Keenom. They're not taking C.J. Stroud's second. I'm not saying they love Keenom. He's amazing. Or Mills. But they are in position with these two quarterbacks. You get a defensive coach.

Let's get a defender. If we're not good next year, guess what? A couple good quarterbacks at the top of the draft. It's a soft tank. They're not taking Stroud's second. No. If you go to all. Ohio State right now and ask a Buckeye fan privately, who are the most talented players in your team?

Harrison and the receiver in the first round this year. And the left tackle is pretty good. Paris Johnson, I think. I don't know how many sacks he did. I think Paris Johnson's a much better left tackle prospect than C.J. Stroud is a quarterback prospect. So he's fourth on that team. And again, I don't have their entire depth chart.

There may be somebody else they love. Maybe a defender. Yeah. But I'm saying is, if you look at Alabama that generally has slightly better talent in Ohio State. Bryce Young's the best player. Will Anderson's talented, but Will Anderson isn't viewed as like a Chase Young. Even, I mean, he's, he's, he's a good, he's a very good rush end. But I think Nick Savin would go, yeah, Bryce Young is. Let me ask you, you brought up the seven-on-seven stuff, and I'm just thinking out loud here. That's nothing like the NFL. The seven-on-seven

maybe can apply to college because you've got great players at Alabama, and, oh, C.J. Strave drops back in clean pockets and is just throwing. You get to the NFL, and, you get to the NFL, and, You've got smart defensive coaches. You've got bigger, faster, stronger everywhere. You don't have great five-star offensive linemen all over the place. This idea that Bryce Young is going to come in, sit back in the pocket, be all cerebral and dominate. Time out of the game.

What is the one conference in college football that looks like the NFL? The SEC. SEC. He was great. Ohio State's never had a great NFL quarterback. One of the reasons is outside of Michigan, who does Ohio State play all year? that can match up NFL body to NFL body.

The answer is nobody and most are a mile from it. Wisconsin's about culture, not talent. Illinois, Purdue, Iowa, Nebraska, Maryland. They're not close. Michigan can match up, not quite, but they're in the same class, NFL bodies. As good as Alabama is, Georgia has as much or more talent. LSU historically as much as more talent. Hell, there have been years that Florida and Auburn can go toe to toe with Alabama.

Like I think it's a, and now you're at in Texas bodies in Oklahoma. So I think the SEC gives me a truer sense of what a player is. Okay. That's a great point. Bryce Young in the SEC this year did not face Georgia. But he did in the Natty in 2021. And Georgia ate his lunch. Now that was a historically great defense.

It's the best defense I've ever seen in college. And Bryce Young struggled mightily. Everybody did. 350 yards passing, but two picks. He had the pick six at the end. times, not his best effort. And this year, you talk about the SEC, like, oh, facing Ole Miss. They've never played defense. LSU, they don't play a lick of defense. Tennessee, 52-49, like Hendon Hooker look like an incredible quarterback. I know everybody likes Bryce Young.

This was not a great year in the SEC defensively outside of Georgia, and we saw what C.J. Stroud did to them. So I can like Bryce Young, but I just have a lot more questions than, yeah, he's definitely number one. Let me bring him in. All right, that's fair. Be sure to catch live edition. of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full

year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle. with Gregg. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for Raw. unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivert Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jette.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack,

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for blood. black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years from black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I haven't talked to Chris Brousard in a while, maybe a week. We got a lot of stuff

here to talk about. Let's bring him in. First things first, co-host, radio show the odd couple. Okay, I made my predictions earlier. I've said before with the Lakers. They were going to win the playoff game, and I think they'll jump on Memphis early. They don't want to get into a track meet because Memphis has depth and youth. So there's a way the Lakers have to play against Memphis. They don't want to get into a seven-game series. They're old. Let's get in.

Let's win game one. Let's shift it. My takeaway is I do think the Lakers, because Stephen Adams is out and Clark, they've lost some bigs, I do think that's enough of a break for the Lakers to win a five or six games. Your thoughts on that. What do you see transpiring in that series? I hear what you're saying, because there's a lot of. reasons to think the Lakers will win.

One, obviously, it's hard to bet against LeBron and A.D. You never can count them out. But like you said, with Stephen Adams and Brandon Clark out, those are two of Memphis's bigs. So A.D. should be able to dominate the series. Now, I know Jaron Jackson Jr. is a phenomenal

defender. Might be defensive player of the year. He was second on my ballot. The problem with him, and the reason I didn't vote him defensive player to year, was he files too much. He leads to least second to Carl Anthony Towns in fouls per game and you saw what happened to Carl Anthony

Towns on Tuesday. So if they, AD should be able to get Jaron Jackson in foul trouble and then it'll be tough for Memphis to win this series. That said, Colin, I'm picking the Grizzlies. I'm picking the Grizzlies. I just look at the Lakers and I don't

think they've been playing nearly as well as everybody says. They've gone seven and two, I believe, since LeBron came back. But if you look at the victories, they beat Utah twice. when Utah's trying to lose, they don't have their two best players. They beat Phoenix without its four best players. They beat Chicago.

They beat Houston. They struggled against Minnesota on Tuesday with Anthony Edwards having one of the worst games of his career. And that was at home in a must-win, essentially a must-win situation. So I think Memphis, John Moran, I don't think, is going to disappear like Anthony Edwards did. Desmond Bain, they can shoot. They're not a great shooting team, but he's a great shooter. they're not scared. Now, they are immature. So I think the Lakers, with their experience, maybe can, that will carry them to victory. But I like Memphis's attitude, and I think they can

get the Lakers in a long series. Yeah, I mean, you could see how it could go sideways, because I watched the Lakers the other night, and you make good points. They've beaten teams, but they've been bad teams. They don't really have a dependable third score. I mean, it was the other night, it was Schrooter. It's often Austin Reeves. I do not trust. I'm a leak Beasley's a nice kid, but he vanishes. Vanderbilt had zero points the other night. DeAngelo Russell, I do not trust in big spots. So you can see the Lakers. You go to Memphis, the crowds loud, they fall behind.

It could certainly teeter that way. Now, Sacramento Golden State, I honestly believe this is one of the most fascinating series, a team with no experience and a team loaded with it, a young team and an old team. I'll tell you how I think it's going to look, is that Golden State has so much, depth at guard. They're just going to throw so many bodies to bang on De Aaron Fox. They want to wear him out. Deeran may have very good early games, but they're going to put Peyton on him. They're going to throw Dante DiVinenza at it. They got a lot of fouls to give, and they're going to be completely physical with Deeran Fox, and as the series goes on, he'll be less efficient, and I'll take

Golden State. I don't think I don't remember a team in the NBA with this much guard depth. I mean, Golden State's got pool, Clay, Steph, Dante, Peyton. So that's my takeaway. It's a longer series Golden State. Your thoughts? I'm with you. I got Golden State. And I got them in five.

I've got Golden State winning it all. Now, I know I'm out on the limb and island because they obviously had the poor road record this year. But Andrew Wiggins coming back is huge. And in this series in particular, Sacramento's horrible defensively. They were 25th in the league defensively, which is I, because Mike Brown in his first and second iterations as a head coach was a tremendous defensive coach. Now obviously he's been great on the offensive end. We'll probably be coached of the year and should be.

He got my vote. But I think the lack of experience, as you said, and the fact that they're really going to try to outscore Golden State because that's what they do. They've outscored teams this season. And Colin, as great as Sacramento's been, since the All-Star break, they basically, the two teams have basically the same record. Golden State, like I said, and they've done that without Wiggins for the whole

second half of the season, and a lot of those games without Steph, as you said, they got Steph, Clay, Jordan Poole, huge scores. Wiggins is a really good three-point shooter in addition to his defense. So with Wiggins and Gary Payton the second,

I think defensively they'll be able to throw some things that rattle Sacramento and then obviously Drayman. So I like the Warriors in this series pretty handily. When you look at the East, I feel like it's so much easier to predict. So I'll stay on the West here. So I like the Suns over the Clippers.

If Paul George played, it could be a different series. But they're a sub-500 team without Paul George. So my takeaway is Phoenix and also the game's not till Sunday. So KD is going to be totally rested. Chris Paul is going to be rested. and they're winning game one. So I think very early, Phoenix is going to assert themselves. I mean, what does KD and Chris Paul need?

Rest. And they didn't play at the end. I mean, they are going to be as rest as KD's been not counting an injury in years. So that's how I view it. Do you view that as a quick series? Yeah, I think Phoenix clearly wins. And I agree, if Paul George were playing it, maybe he'll come back at some point in the series, that would be huge.

But I picked Phoenix in six. I wouldn't be surprised if it's five. Here's what I like about the Clippers. And I don't think they can win this series or will win it. But Kawhi Leonard has been healthy. And he's obviously playing great. And I am sure he's definitely not afraid of Kevin Durant. And I think he's going to look in forward to the matchup with Kevin Durant.

I know it was years ago. But you remember when Kawhi was still in San Antonio. and they were facing the warriors with Kevin Durant and he got injured in game one in the third quarter but they were up 22. The Spurs were shocking everybody up 22 in that first game. So I just think Kauai when he's healthy,

he's one of the most dangerous players in the league. Westbrook, for all his flaws, and he said there's no beef and I doubt there's a beef at this point with him and Kevin Durant. But I'm sure he is looking forward to this series because clearly he's lost the divorce, right? Duran's got two championships, all that stuff.

But a way to get just a little bit of get back for Westbrook would be if he could somehow knock Kevin Duran out of the playoffs and leave that yeah but on Duran's resume, which is, yeah, he's got two rings, but that was a stacked team. So I just think that the Clippers with Tai Loo is a great coach and the attitude of Westbrook and Kauai, I think they can make it challenging for the Sons, although I think Phoenix will prevail.

Okay. The team, because I think I know who's going to win all these series, but there's a reason that the Cleveland Nick series is fascinating. Cleveland's going to win this thing. They've got too many shot makers. I just don't, if Julius Randall doesn't play for a couple games, it could get ugly. But my takeaway is Jalen Brunton and Randall could be part. of a really good team. But you need a guy. You need to get another guy. Randall's a three,

Brunson's a two on a championship team or a team in a championship window. When the Knicks lose this series, there's going to be a Kyrie. I think the Lakers would absolutely listen to an AD pitch. There's Dame Lillard, although I don't know if he fits with Jalen Brunson. They're both small. So I'm going to look ahead. When the Knicks lose this series to Cleveland, who's got, I think Cleveland's one of the only teams in the East that could shock the world and knock off a Milwaukee or a Philly or a Boston. What are they going to do in New York? What are they going to do?

Because they're going to lose this series, and if Randall doesn't play, they may get swept. Yeah, I agree with you. And it's going to be tough to see what they do. You mentioned Damien Lillard. Look, if they move him, they're going to want young players and draft picks, Portland I'm talking about. And as you said, he's a guard.

They're fine on the perimeter. Anthony Davis would be interesting, but again, I don't think they have what the Lakers would want to trade for an AD. So I don't know the answer. Jalen Brunson is a keeper. And even though Julius Randall has been great and his numbers are great, people will tell you that Brunson's been the key to why they've really played so well this season. He's one of the best clutch players in the league this season. and so he's been surprisingly good for them. We knew he'd be good, but this good is a surprise.

Look, Donovan Mitchell was the guy, and I know Danny Ains was going to make them pay if they were going to get him, but they missed their chance to get him. They're always hunting for that superstar you're talking about, Colin, and they haven't been able to get him since I've been, like, since Allen Houston and LaTrell Spriewell, Larry Johnson and those guys. So that's what I was covering him.

So it's going to be challenging because you don't want to just be stuck in that fifth seed, which is kind of where they're at for maybe the next few years. Yeah, and I think this is a bad matchup. I think Cavs is a bad matchup for the Knicks. I think they can hit the three. I think they've got a big in Evan Mobley. They've got a star that can get buckets. And I know how New York reacts.

You see it in baseball. You see it in the NFL. If they get swept in this series, Cleveland is really, really a good team. I think Cleveland's one year away from being in that Boston Celtics realm. Now, now, here's another question for you. Do you think Boston gets out of the east? Because I do think they'll have discussions. If they don't get out of the east and they can't beat Milwaukee,

they've been pretty patient with their core. What is your gut feeling on? So you said the Warriors win it. Who's coming out of the east? Yeah. I've got a rematch. I've got Golden State and Boston in the finals. Look, Milwaukee, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they emerged in the east, but Boston's really played well against them and won in Milwaukee.

We saw it last year in the playoffs in game six with their backs against the wall. They faced an elimination. This year, they were able to win in Milwaukee. So Milwaukee is great as they are defensively. One of the reasons they're so great is because they're bigs, Brooke Lopez, Janice, Bobby Portis. Now, Drew Holliday is a fantastic defender, but outside of him, They have guys on the perimeter that have trouble staying in front of you. And that's where Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum have their way with the buck.

So I like Boston getting to the finals. As far as discussions breaking up the team, look, obviously there's been talk about Jalen Brown. He hasn't been shy in voicing some of his questions about staying there. But he's a professional. I think if they get to the finals, they obviously have a chance to win it as well. I can see this relationship continuing. You know, this isn't the first time there's been questions about Jalen Brown being there. His name's been in trade rumors for a few years, and people wonder, would he be able to stay there?

If he makes noise, if he absolutely wants out, I think a Damien Lillard is a guy you're definitely looking at. Jalen Brown would fit the timetable of the Blazers, right? They got these young kids emerging like Anthony Simons and Shaden Sharp. Jalen Brown's fairly young. And Lillard, obviously, would be great in Boston. they've got defenders that could cover for him, and we know what he brings offensively. And I'd love to see Dame get in a situation like that. And I think if he did, he'd be like Kevin Garnett, like, man, what was I waiting for?

Why didn't I do this earlier? Right. No, no, I think because Marcus Smart, Williams protects the rim, Marcus Smart protects the back court. You and Tatum's a good wing defender. Dame to the Celtics is really interesting. Jalen Brown, again, young, healthy guys still, ascending player in the West. Chris Broussard, first things first after our show in 30 minutes. Good seeing you.

All right, Colin. That is an interesting one for Dame. Because Kevin Garnett waited forever, got to Boston. It's like, there's a reason he's got podcasts, he's on networks. If he doesn't go to the Celtics, is Kevin Garnett on network TV making millions a year podcast? No, the Celtics made. In the NBA, if you're not playing in May and June, you're not relevant. Does it matter how great you are?

We should do a list of the five guys potentially in the NBA who could change teams this offseason. Does Lillard top the list or is Anthony Davis at the top for you? If you said, if I got, Jalen's a much better defender, bigger, stronger athlete than Dame. Dame's clearly the better long-range shooter. So if you told me it's Dame, I don't know if Boston would make that deal. Portland would. Dame's so popular there. Jalen Brown is 26. Oh, no, no. Dane's got two years left. So again, his contract alone has a big money. Portland would have to give you a draft pick, Dame and one of their players. And I guarantee you

that Celtics would take Simons. I don't think Portland would give them up. No, no. It sounds good, but I just don't think it's, it's, it wouldn't work. I mean, there's Paul George, there's Dame Lillard, there's Anthony Davis, there's James Hart, like some big names. Okay, let me ask you this. Clippers. If they, if they fizzle out, Dame for Paul George. Portland fans are like, we don't want Paul George. He's garbage. I'm like, what are you talking about? Paul George is an elite defender. Wings now run the lead. They've been able to find a wing in Portland forever. He's perfect in Portland. Yeah. They get Simons and the young kid sharp to be their new back court. Like, what are you complaining about? No, I think I do that. Now, I think Dame is

great fit with Kauai. But dame's also small in a defensive liability. Paul George is a an elite wing defender. And he lets Kauai Leonard take some nights off, although not now because he's hurt, but Kauai doesn't have to lock down Kevin Durant because Paul George, you go to do it. I think if I was Portland, I'd make that deal. And by the way, I think Dame is going to go down as the greater player. But with

Paul, I get a bigger, longer athlete, at a position wing they've struggled with for years. And Paul's a very good player. Portland fans are in this vibe, and I'm just seeing it online where it's like, we just want a lot of picks and pick swaps. Oh, picks are you. I'm like, you're not getting that. It's not have. Look at how it worked out for

Rudy Gobert. Terrible. They would not do that deal again. Look at how worked out for Dejanta Murray and the Hawks. I don't think they're doing that deal again. So those deals like happened, I think that window is kind of closed. Yeah, I'm not, in the NBA, I'm not interested in draft picks. Unless I can get a lottery pick, I'm just not interested. How many rookies this year popped? Well, let's go back. The Celtics built this juggeron. Okay, that's by six years ago. Yeah. It took some time, but they got the high picks. They hit on two. Yes. Okay. So how many rookies came into the NBA this year and made a real impact? Well, the kid in O'KC is starting, one of the Williams guys.

Okay, but the kid in Orlando is the Duke kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Apollo Bangaro has made a, he's a really good, okay, one. A couple years ago, we thought Zion John Morant. John Morant's can be squirly and Zion never plays. And that was considered two locks. Chet Holmgren hurt. I'm telling you, you're drafting guys 19-year-old kids.

They don't, to make it, the last player to be drafted in the NBA and make an impact consistently in the playoffs is six years ago Jason Tatum. I got no interest. I got no interest in draft picks. And it's funny because the Lakers have an undrafted guy in Austin Reeves. But he's not taking you anywhere. Unlike some nights, he's their third best player. And you need that in the playoffs.

Okay, time out. On some nights. Dennis Truder saved them. He's the third or fourth or fifth best player. Save them against the Timberwolves. Austin Reeves will have a game. Let me tell you what I don't want. A bunch of guys on my roster who on some nights can be the third best offensive player.

I don't like that. I think that's wrong. Unfortunately, it's a Tuesday in Charlotte. Colin, this is a long postseason. I will remind you, who bailed out Boston in game seven against the Bucks, hitting a billion three-pointers, Grant Williams. These guys matter. Jordan Poole has had his moments.

There's going to be a game against Memphis when Austin Reed goes for like 28, 11. an assist, the Lakers steal a win, and you're going to be like, well, Austin Reed's good. Yet, that's what you get him for. A key role player who on one night can totally pop for you. Key role player that can occasionally pop for you. You know what you're getting from LeBron and 80s? You know who was winning titles?

Kareem, Magic, Bird, McHale. 40 years ago? Different league. Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Parker, not role guys. I want, I want Dremont, Steph, Clay, Wiggins. Those are great players. Andre Aguadol had a great finals. They're not getting there without Steph Klan Draymond.

Yeah, I mean, we're not really arguing. We agree. But I just feel like the value in role players is immense, and you're kind of kind of tissing it. Like, come on. You ever see the movie Ocean's 11? Outstanding movie. Yeah.

Take out Clooney. Oh, stop it. You know what it's called? It's called Oceans 4 and nobody watches it. I'm not taking out a superstar. No, I mean, it's like, Julia Roberts, Pitt Clooney, and a bunch of role players. An hour ago, when you were breaking down the playoffs, you said Robert Williams is the guy.

Can Robert Williams play? What is he, Colin? Is he a star? He's a role player. He is in the Eastern Conference with Mobley, M.B., Janus. If you don't have a big, you're done. And Janus goes for 30 against the Celtics. So he is a role player.

He's a rim protector. But let me count Robert Williams' all-star appearances. Let me get the zero. Come on. He's a role player. By the way, he didn't play this year. I mean, literally bubble-wrapped him. He didn't play this year.

Celtics ended up, what, number two seed? Yeah. I mean, so there you go. Didn't play him much. I'm saying there are moments, and he's a unique player because there's so many great bigs in the east. Yes. You take out Clooney and Julia Roberts.

Stop. Nobody would take them out of them. It's a cable act. It's straight to video. It's Ocean 7. I'm not. Take out Brad Pitt from Ocean's 11. What is that movie?

It's nothing. All right. We got to take a break. No. Heard line news after the break. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. What do you get when you combine a three-time manager of the year at a three-time national sports writer of the year? It's the Book of Joe podcast.

Hey, this is Tom Verducci from Fox Sports, MLB Network, and Sports Illustrated. And I'm Joe Madden, and we're going to be around to talk a little bit about managerial decisions, playoff games, and what may have occurred in the dugout, maybe in the 1980s. I can't wait for this, Joe. we're going to dive into what goes on in the dugout and behind the scenes in Major League Baseball. Cars, whined, whatever else we want to talk about. Listen to the Booker Joe podcast on the Iheart radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media.

Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger, than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve

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and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. So. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's not waste any time. Jay Mack with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

The Lamar Jackson saga wears on. Now Ben Rathesberger is chiming in, former quarterback in that division. He's pointing out a potential flaw that could be an issue in Lamar Jackson's negotiations. Here's Ben Rathesberg. You don't really fear Lamar's arm his accuracy all the time. He's got a huge arm. He can make things happen when he scrambles and whatever. But you don't fear him just sitting in the pocket and picking you apart.

So you can bring safeties down because you do fear him running because he's different levels. level runner. So you fear that. So you bring safeties down. Well, I always think he's a better thrower than he gets credit for, but I think it's fair to say what scares you about Lamar are the legs over the pocket. That's fair. That's fair. I don't think he plays from behind as well as, remember when like Trevor Lawrence falls into a huge hole against the charges, right? and in the second half you're like just throw it every down and with Trevor Lawrence you're like yeah that's what he could do

he could throw it every single down not move and I think Burroughs the same way up I said in the second half he trails by three touchdowns has to throw 38 straight times with Burroughs you're totally comfortable a big part to me like Jalen Hertz and Lamar Jackson a real part of who they are and Josh Allen to a lesser

degree is Alex I mean Josh Allen I don't like nearly as well in the pocket as I do Mahomes Burrow even sometimes Herbert. So I do think, I mean, look at how often Lamar runs. Like the numbers don't lie. In the NFL history, like the only guy close to him is hurts.

He runs. Josh Allen runs, but they're acknowledging in Buffalo, they're acknowledging we want to run him less. I don't think anybody says, we've got to run Lamar less. It is absolutely a component to his greatness is that he's the fastest person that's ever played the position. Ben Rothesberger needs to talk to some numbers guys because to say you don't fear Lamar's accuracy I mean that's just idiotic. Like Lamar Jackson from the pocket

was one of the 10 best passing quarterbacks in the league. Better numbers than Aaron Rogers. Like he's really good in the pocket. Well, we don't think, do you think he's a better thrower than Aaron? That's not the question. He'd say you don't fear him in the pocket. Okay, fine. Go ahead.

Don't rush him. With Lamar, you've got to put a safety in the box because you're so fearful. So his passing lanes tend to be a little more open. Imagine if the Ravens got him great receivers. Oh, they haven't. All right, moving on. You always make it sound like I don't like Lamar.

I do. No, not you, man. Ben Raffisberger. Yeah. All right, next up, Damian Lillard. Ah, this is going to be good. He's preached loyalty throughout his career with the Blazers, turning down opportunities to leave and get a title.

However, Damian Lillard, maybe it's starting to wear out. Here's what he had to say about his future with the Blazers. It ain't a threat. I'm not, you know, I ain't going to say I'm putting him on the clock. I'm just saying, you know, If those things can't be done, you know, we can't do something significant like that, then we won't have a chance to compete on that level. And then not only will I have a decision to make, but I think the organization will too,

because at that point it's like, are you going to go young or are we going to get something done? And I just think, you know, we have that point down where everybody wants to win. You know, they believe that I deserve that opportunity. I think you and I on that Paul George thing, Ballmer's going to want to move. I think Paul George, I mean, if I was the Clippers, that's exactly what they need, a guy that a playmaker at point that can hit big shots, and what the Blazers need, because the Blazers have some young guards people like, they don't have a wing.

Once the last time they had a wing? Go get one. This idea that, you know, Damien Lillard should be stained to win a title. It's just, it's not going to win a title. There's not reality. There's no path whatsoever to Portland making roster moves to win a title next year. Or even be a contender. There's no path.

New next two years, zero chance. No chance. So why is Dame wasting time? You should have got out last summer. Well, Bradley Beale hasn't left either. I mean, some guys don't like bouncing around. I mean, they've all got $100 million plus in the bank, and he's got his home he likes and his friends in Portland, and he's from the Bay Area.

It's an hour, 15 flight maybe. Like, he doesn't care. Go through the motions, sit out whenever you want. Second half of the season. Doesn't matter. One, two, three, Cancun in the huddle. Not everybody wants to be Jeff Bezos. Not everybody wants to win basketball games and be relevant in the postseason?

Well, I think there's a lot of. components to what make people happy. You know what's happiness? Winning. Well, for me and you, winning. Yeah. I like winning. I like to join a winning team.

Now we're dominating. All right. Let me move on. Janus, the final story, Colin. He's one of the best players in the league. He's the best player in the league. Confirm. Best player in the league.

His MVP season led to a five-year, $228 million extension. Yonis revealed, though, he nearly retired. If something doesn't make me happy, I don't do it. I don't want to do it. I'm just going to stay home, stay with my kids, stay with my family, try to be happy. I don't care. And this was right when I signed the largest contract in NBA history. In 2020, I was ready to walk away from the game. Everybody's looking

to me crazy. You just signed the largest contract in history? And you want to walk away from the game and all that money? Man, you could take that money and shove it into your line. Have you seen the Yonest story? It's on the Disney app or whatever. I know you have the Disney channel on your cable, but I would highly recommend that movie. It's awesome. The Yannis story about his family coming over and all this stuff? Really good movie. I like Yonis a lot. Let's just not talk MVP. He's currently the best player in the league. And you have to consider availability. Yeah, you need to consider it. Yeah. So he's the best player in the league. M. Beds probably, because he played more games this year, is probably the second best player in the league.

No. Who is? But at any rate, I just want to remind people. Janice was not the number one pick overall. I think he was, what, in the 9 to 13 range somewhere in there? Either was Mahomes. He was super skinny when he came into the league. Yeah.

Didn't win any playoff series, I don't think, until he was like 25? 24, 25? Nothing happens overnight. People need to realize that. Janus has become a superstar. Nobody said Janus is going to be the best player in the league in eight years. Not one person on planet Earth. very, Peyton Manning's an exception.

LeBron's an exception. Is, very rarely do you get a guy and everybody's like, oh, he's going to be great. And then really quickly they're great. Even Peyton Manning had like a bad third year. Andrew Luck was great day one. LeBron was luck. Great day one. That's very rare.

I mean, it's unbelievable. I think you put Kevin Durant in there, but it's a small list. You're right. Peyton, LeBron. I mean, look at Steph Curry was not a number one pick. But even there were doubts about KD. You had doubts. Greg Oden went before Kevin Duran in the draft, which is insane to think about.

Durant was so skinny out of college. He couldn't. I remember that. I know the bench 185 pounds. I'm throwing lead around like that every afternoon. He threw two plates around? Iron. Putting up some big, you weren't a tank top to the gym?

The people want to know this. I work out at home. I wear a T-shirt. Man of the people. T-shirt guy. It's a tiny little, tiny little treadmill and some weights at home. How about this? Will you go to the grocery store in a tank top?

In a tank top? Yeah, why not? You're just popping in for some items? Never. I don't own a tank top. I don't have one in my house. I got a bunch of workout shirts. I got a bunch of workout shirts.

What are you advertising for those guys? Air Cowherd. J-Mac for the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd-Ly News. Air movie is out now, right? You can go watch it.

Can I stream that? What am I going to go to a theater by myself? I don't think the wife wants to watch that. Well, I think air movie's out, isn't it? It's in theaters. You saw it with the famous people out there on the red carpet, right? I went to West Hollywood and saw it. Yeah.

Probably sitting next to Matt Damon or one of these famous people. I think they came in after on the stage. I didn't want to hear all the chit chat after, but they were on stage. Oh, you ducked out? It's a very good movie. Everybody I know that's seen it loves it. You know what? Top five sports movie ever?

Hollywood. tries to get so hip and cool and Matt Damon and Ben Affleck make good movies. They make a movie I go watch. The herd. The end. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite

unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group

perform. We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the Iheart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild. I mean, it was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show.

This is a place for raw, unfields, conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.