The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-HOUR-3-Los Angeles Lakers and Mario Elie

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

John finishes up the show with what makes a team special, and former Houston Rocket Mario Elie joins to talk NBA Playoffs, the role you fill on your team and more. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be making it as part of your day.

Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd, who claims to be wick surfing right now. Wake surfing right now. It's a tough life. It's tough life when you're calling Cowherd. Mario Ellie is going to join us. There may be some USBL talk with Mario Ellie. John Middukoff joined us. earlier. So did Kurt Eline, who joined us from NBCSports.com covering the NBA. Speaking of the NBA, last night the Lakers thumped, and I mean thumped the Portland Trailblazers. Now, look, it's just one game.

We cannot freak out, right? Like the, like, just like we can't freak out with one loss, you can't freak out. you can't freak out with one win, you know, you can't say, well, because Portland won game one series over Portland's better, the same is, you know, the same is actually true when the result is the opposite. So I look at and, you know, you can go and look these stats up. They're readily, readily available in terms of offensive statistics, defensive statistics. You know, it's fascinating to me how we kind of lose sight of what makes a team special. Right. Like what makes you can, in fact, break you, but you have to, on many levels, fall back on what you do best.

That's the key to being a professional. That's the true key to being a professional is pros. and this is how it was described to me in basketball, but I think you can use it in your job as well, which is, to me, the key to being a professional, all right? Key to being a professional is pros do what they do well. Amateurs, well, they just try and, you know,

they just try and prove you wrong and prove everything you have as a scanner report to be somehow incorrect. And, well, that's, that's, that's, that's not going to work out well for you. The Lakers in the regular season are the best, analytically, you know, if you look at defensive, general defensive advanced statistics,

right? They're the best, best defensive team in the Western Conference. So when you look at the Lakers, so many times we freaked out because LeBron didn't look to score late in the game. Danny Green couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. They don't have Avery Bradley, would become a vital weapon, both ends, but finally shooting the basketball well.

He'd been a big defender all year, but it was finally making shots, you know, before he called it a year because of his fears of COVID. All right. So I look at this and I'm telling you that what you saw from the Lakers last night is that's who they are. They're just a very, very good defensive team. Very good defensive team. and while their ratings have dropped a little bit since they've been in the bubble,

generally, okay, they're number three overall in the NBA, number one in the Western Conference in defensive rating. Only the Bucks and the Raptors are better, but the Lakers for the season, for the 71 games they played, are a better defensive team statistically than the Clippers and then the next closest team in the West is the Utah Jazz. Or excuse me, the Oklahoma City Thunder than Utah Jazz. So the story of game one was, man, the Lakers can't shoot. I'm not sure if you guys have been paying attention,

but the Lakers haven't been able to shoot all year. Well, how the hell they win all those games? Well, Anthony Davis is just better, and LeBron James is just better, and they stop people. And I'm going to give somebody credit who I, think had the right thought, just terrible execution.

Magic Johnson. Right? Do you remember what Magic Johnson said two years ago when they were putting together a team with LeBron James and you're like, those are some really weird pieces? Let's go get Rondo and let's go get this guy. Let's bring back KCP and you're

like, what? And his thing was, hey, nobody plays good defense. We'll be the best defensive team. Now, their execution was, great because and look, Danny Green can't hit a broad side of a barn. He's not the defender used to be, but the

idea of Danny Green is much better than the idea of what they were thrown out there previously. But Avery Bradley fits that if he's playing. Like all of their, Rondo's like their worst defensive guard, but he at least reputation wise has a good reputation defensively better than actually how he plays.

Javelle McGee and Dwight Howard. Like, why do they have these guys? Because they rebound? and play defense and block shots. The thing about basketball is they actually allow you to try and stop the other team from scoring. I know, I know. It's a really hard one because most guys who cover the NBA now,

they're like, well, how many points do he have? How many assists he had? How many rebounds he had? Well, then he played well. That's not actually how it works. Not actually how it works. And, you know, we work in a business where I remember the first job I got nationally. I was hired by a man named Dan Steer,

who now works for NBC Sports. Dan was really, really, longtime college basketball producer. When Vital was at his peak, Dan was in his ear, he's his producer. Dan hired me eventually and Franfichilla the same year. And his thing was like, look, man, tell me why, don't tell me what,

I can see what, tell me why? He also used to say, if you told a story once in a game, You didn't tell it. People watching the second half, didn't watch in the first half, et cetera, et cetera. You can't tell it enough. And I'll never assume. That was a big thing.

Never assume. All of these things, you know, kind of resonated with me, you know, to have an opinion and to tell me why and all of these things. But, you know, like, listen, he really, really pushed you. to not use cliches. Don't use a cliche. But, you know, sometimes clichés are cliches for a reason. Like, it's a cliche. Like, we use cliche.

Clchay is kind of like the word mediocre. The word mediocre isn't actually a bad word. If you say, how is that, your wife makes you a meal. How was the meal? Honey, it was mediocre. Mediocre means average. But if you hear the word mediocre, like, man, mediocre, well, thank you. Yeah, I slaved all day in the hot,

hot stove and made you eggplant parm and mediocre. Like, no, no, mediocre's average. I didn't say it was below average. I didn't say it was dog food. I didn't say it was kibble. I didn't say, you know, you could, you only take out of the garbage.

You cooked it. You took it. You take it out. I didn't say that. I just said it's mediocre. It's average. Clices the same thing. A phrase or opinion that is overused and doesn't have and betrays

lack of original thought. Sometimes though cliches are, when the going gets tough, the tough do get going. And defense. does in fact win championships. It just does. You don't believe me? What if I proved it to you?

Yeah, what if I, what have I proved it to you? You know? I mean, look, the teams, you're not winning anything without a top five defense in football and in basketball. Last year's champion, the Toronto Raptors. The Toronto Raptors. granted, they were helped out by Golden State getting injured. When the Golden State Warriors were peak Golden State Warriors,

they were the best or second best defensive team in the league. That's the truth. Analytically speaking, their defensive ratings have always been off the chart. How have the San Antonio Spurs been able to somehow make the playoffs, not this year, as their talent got depleted? Why? They were the best defensive team in the league. and we are waiting on the LA Lakers to find themselves. They have.

They got to get Anthony Davis to carry them offensive when LeBron cannot and score just enough points to win and the defense can happen every night. LeBron can't carry you every night. Anthony Davis doesn't seem to be able to carry you every night, but the defense can keep you in every game so that it keeps you around for if LeBron and Anthony Davis can hit big shots. That's the working theory.

Or hypotheses or whatever you want to call. That honestly was Magic Johnson's plan. Look, Magic didn't know what he was talking about sometimes and he didn't have a great plan with coach and execution and personnel. And I get it. But it was what Magic said, like, you know. And the cliche is true. You ain't went anything on a defense.

So I watched last night and I could go into, well, LeBron doesn't play well. Or he doesn't play well offensively. or Damien Liller dislocates his finger, or was it Portland, are they out of gas? Probably some. Is the Lakers making adjustments? Probably some.

I think that coaching staff is wildly underrated. They've done an excellent job this year. But I also think they just got, they continued on with who they are. Hey, man, the shots are going to go in or they're not going to go in. But you know what? We can stop them.

That's what we were actually built for. That's why we were the best team, defensive rating-wise, in the West this year, third best in the NBA. to Portland and Milwaukee, right, two other elite teams. And that's what we're going to win championship. All right, coming up next, coming up next in The Herd.

I saw this NFL story and I thought Colin would love it. But he's not on. I am. Maybe my perspective is different. I'll share with you next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Mario Ellie's going to join us momentarily.

he was a huge, huge part of, among other teams. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, This is right what you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. We pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more. important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host,

and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different

levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Among other teams, the Houston Rockets, right? He's, like, famous for hitting big shots of the Houston Rockets. Kind of an amazing, like an amazing career. Like, I don't know if people remember. He played American International. and then he actually played in Ireland, in Portugal, in the USBL, a league.

I got a chance to play in, and then became a star in the NBA. And a huge part of those Rockets teams in the mid-80s. And then he gave the kiss of death, right? When he'd make a shot, he'd blow a kiss. Yeah, he was a hell of a player. He won two NBA championships with the Rockets. We got his thoughts on the Lakers.

on the Clippers and on the Rockets, who, dare I say, played championship caliber defense yesterday, granted against a young Oklahoma City team. Granted against a young Oklahoma City team. We'll get to that. I want to quickly give you this story in regards to the National Football League. So Melvin Ingram was going to have a sit-in, right? Not a hold-out, a sit-in or a hold-in. Where you go to practice, you show up, you shake hands, you get treatment, you get your work in,

but you're not going to go out there because you're mad about your contract. And they basically guaranteed his deal for the year as a bit of opinions and let's just kind of kick it down the road a little bit. And it's interesting. It's one of these things that I will never, I don't really understand in terms of football. I get the idea of holding out. But you can, the goodwill attach with just being there

is so smart. The charges didn't have to give him anything. They read his contract a couple years ago. They paid him, you know, close to top dollar. Before they needed to, they got it done quietly, and he's a tremendous player. He and Bosa, I mean, that's as dynamic of defensive line as you're going to find. They didn't have to do anything. But they did, and a good reason why they probably did was the dude did a sit-in or hold in. I'm going to go, I'm going to show up, and we still got Hunter Henry's deal. We've got to figure out some of the other stuff we got to work through. You know, where are we with Justin Herbert, a quarterback or Tyrod Taylor? We've got to figure out all these other things.

Fine, we'll guarantee your deal, and they probably did it because of the sit-in or the hold-in, or whatever you want to call it. All right, let me work in Mario Ellie, who joins us in the herd. Men, are you feeling okay? Neither am I. If you're not ready to give up, you want to feel more energized and lean, try M-Drive. Check it out at m-drivefor-men.com. that's MDrive for Men.com. Mario Ellie, two-time NBA champion, long-time NBA assistant coach,

joins us in the herd. Mario, what's this like for you, a guy who you grinding your way to the NBA to becoming NBA champion, then you're a coach. This time of year, usually Summer League or actually Summer League over, and now it's kick it. You got playoff games on at all hours of the day. What are your thoughts on how the bubble is playing out? Great introduction, my man. I'm just super excited.

Fudos to the NBA for doing an outstanding, outstanding job with their creativity and their idea. I mean, I think it's going on maybe a month or a half, two months with no positive tests. The games have been outstanding. I think it's wide open to win the championship because there's really no fans there. It's just like a unified AAU tournament

and whoever's hot at that time to me can go far. You mentioned the Rockets, their defense, the first two games have been amazing. Amazing. That's what I've been looking for, especially when you have a small lineup. If you have a small lineup, you've got to get out there. Get out of regard, really switch aggressively. And they just loaned to the ball. I mean, their defense to me has been the difference in their first two games.

I completely agree with you. And I am somebody that says, like, because Dan Tony has never, like I was told when he's in New York, they didn't even have defensive drills, right? Like, because he's just, that's not what he's been about. It's when your head coach isn't, you can say him about defense, but unless you are, the guy, you don't fool guys. But like, one of the things, first of all, PJ Tucker is just a warrior, right? Like, he, he just outplays people.

But I think what they've done smartly with Hardin is you want to, he's, he's actually a decent post defender. And that's where they've kind of tried to hide him defensively. And frankly, not having Russell Westbrook, who athletically should be a great defender, but isn't really? All of that has made them better defensively. Great point, Doug, and you're right. I love the scheme.

They allow an OKC to shoot the three that really play in boxes and elbows. And the thing that's disappointed to me when OKC, they can't attack the switches. And why do you have Stephen Adams at the free throw line catch at the ball? I don't know. I don't know. Put him at the block every time. Exactly. And throw him the ball.

But, man, he's... 9-10. Why do you have him coming off staggered screens? The rockets are switching anyway. His mismatch is on the post. I just, I mean, I know Billy Donovan got coached you to hear, but I'm like, PJ Tucker last hour, I remember

is 6-5-66, Stephen Adams is 7 foot, maybe close to 300 pounds, and you have him catching the ball at the free-thole line. Then you're on the same page, Doug. Put Adams down low way. He's around the basket constantly. We can get tip-ins. Offense rebounds, and he has a nice little box game, so I'm trying to figure when who case he is don't.

Well, I'll give you the opposite side to it, okay, is the one of the things you and I both know, when you play small, you get away with a little bit more. You can be a little bit more physical. And the other part, and the two other parts to it is, one, Stephen Adams, as big as he is, he's never really been refined as score. Like he just has not developed that part of his game. And I don't know how much, you know, so oftentimes now guys are trying to develop. the ability to shoot the three, which he can't, but he just misses far too many easy ones. But then the last thing is, and I do believe this to be true, like, the thing that hurts Oklahoma City the most is Chris Paul is a great pick and roll point guard.

Like he's as good at using the ball screen as anybody who's ever done it. But because Adams isn't really a roller, and because they're just switching and they got guards, it kind of takes away what Chris Paul does best. So some of that is because of the scheme, some of that is because Stephen Adams just couldn't score even if you locked them in the gym. I was never worried about the rockets in the early rounds. I worry about when they – I don't know who they're playing the second round. It's either the Lakers or Clippers. I'm not sure.

But you got medium to big guys on both those teams who can take advantage of mismatches. You got Anthony Davis and LeBron. You try to switch on them. They're going to punish you whether it's pass or kicking out. And then you got the clipper, Zubox. Zubox can do stuff around the basket, Montreal's Harrow can, Kauai's their beast,

no matter who you switch on him. He can take you to the box. He can face your... And Paul George also. I'm with you, Doug. With OKC, they have limitations. They don't have good shooting. And you write about Stephen Adams.

He's not fresh around the box. He's just... You give it to him under there. He just goes up because he's big and stronger than you. He really doesn't have a box game. But as you go deeper into the playoffs, you got bigs who are going to punish you for these switches. No, no question.

What do you think about the Lakers? My general takeaway is, like, people are freaking out about the lack of shooting. They haven't shot it well all year, and you take Avery Bradley off the team. We shouldn't be surprised. But what they have done well, they've actually done well in both games, which is defend. That's their calling card. But is it enough for you to win big if they can't shoot? Yes, because you got two of the top five players in the NBA.

I get tired of all these people on TV say LeBron need help. He doesn't need no help. You got Anthony Davis and you. Two of the top five guys in the NBA. And that's what I want to see from Anthony Davis. Being active around the goal. Attacking, not selling for jump shots,

getting to the line, a big impact on defense. And you mentioned, Doug, the Lakers are a solid defensive team. Granite, Howard, and McGee don't give you the offense, but they do give you the battle. protection and the rebounding for extra possession.

When you give good teams that could possession, at the end of day, they're going to make you pay. Yeah, they absolutely are. What's wrong with the Clippers? The Clippers were supposed to be this deep team, great defensive team. Granted, haven't had Patrick Beverly, but they're just getting torched by Luca. Luca's a special player, and I'm mad that he wasn't on the MVP ballot. I sort of paid attention to him when he's at Barcelona overseas. A lot of my friends looked at me crazy.

I said, this man should go number one. He should be the number one pick. Vladi Divac will still have his job if he would pick Lucas at that spot. The kid is special. You know, Doug, I don't know if he played overseas. If you're special, they get you at 15 years old, and you're playing grownups like Tony Parker. They got Tony Parker, all these guys overseas who play professionally young.

So when they come to the NBA, these guys are ready to go. you know, Luca ain't missed a step when he came from Barcelona to the NBA. Now that Rick Carlis, who's one of the better coaches in the league, puts the ball in his hand. And his vision and his decision-making is second-to-none. I put him up there with Magic and LeBron. His vision, when he goes in the paint,

he knows where everybody is at on the floor. And him or Pazinians are pretty good. That was my surprise team in the West. I had Toronto and East and Dallas, because those two guys are very good players. And you mentioned, Doug, in the pick and roll, I mean, Prozingis, popping, he can roll, he can mess with it. He's got Seth Curry playing some good ball. I mean, they're a dangerous team, even though I think the clippers will end up beating them, but it's not going to be easy.

I mentioned you played in Ireland, Portugal, and the USBL. Give me your best story. Give me your kind of go-to, you can tell me on the radio story. I'll share with you one. Oh, man. Ireland, Doug. Ireland. We'll practice once a week with my teammates drink on a warm pine of Guinness at 1130 in the morning.

The bar is packed. People are just getting hammered over there in Ireland all times of the day. Great teammates, great people. I just remember my teammates after practice, hey, Mary, let's go to the pub and have a warm pine and Guinness. That's what we would do. We end up being there maybe three or four hours longer than we expected. but just fun, great people. I had an outstanding time out there,

and I want people to go out there and visit Island. The people are great. Dublin is great. Cork, Belfast. Just an amazing country. Just had a blast. But just the drinking, though, Doug, these people drink all the time.

The pub is packed all the time, and you rarely see accidents out there. So I had a blast. That was my first European experience playing, and the people were great. I had just a great time. Okay, I'll give you my best USBL story. Is that okay?

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so I'm playing this is in 2000, and I'm playing. What team are you playing with that? It's the Oklahoma Storm. Oklahoma Storm. Brian Gates, who's an NBA assistant, was our head coach. Oh, Brian Gates, that's a good friend of mine. Yeah, it was great dude.

He's got some, you have triplets, and I think he has triplets as well. We both have triplets, yes. See, I'm pretty good at what I do. So, B. Gates is our coach, and we had, we had some gems on this team, right? We had Willie Burton, okay? Oh, Lord. Willie was, he was un-I mean, just a professional score. We had Willie Burton.

We had, gosh, what's my man's name? He played at Louisville. He gave Jordan, like, 31, and then Jordan gave him 31 the next. Oh, LeBradford Smith? LeBradford Smith. We had LeBradford Smith. We had some, we had some dudes. on this thing. Okay?

So we play one night in D.C. Okay? And in D.C., it was nuts. We had, Darren McClinton was the other point guard. He was from D.C. A couple of other guys were from D.C. So it was, we played a George Washington University. He was wild. It was like something out of a

and one mixtape. Dude's running out in the floor. Right? So we go back to the hotel and like, hey, we got a game tomorrow night in Philadelphia against Daryl Dawkins team, the Philadelphia Dogs, okay? Valley dogs. So, like, all right.

So all of a sudden, Brian Gates wakes us up with a phone call. And the drive from D.C. to Bethland, Pennsylvania, at Lehigh University, where they played, was, I think, like, two hours. We get a phone call like eight, like panic. Like, hey, the game's at 11. We're like, what?

Yeah, the games at 11 is to get, like, summer camps in, to see the game, whatever. We got to go. So we all come downstairs. We get our stuff. It's like 815. We roll out. We go to Bethlam, PA.

We roll in. Now, we, this is 2009. I had not yet taken, I don't know if Starbucks existed then or didn't, Dunkin' Donuts, nobody had eaten. So we're like, hey, yo, we got to get something to eat. We got to go play this game. And the place is packed with a bunch of, you know, little kids that are in summer camp and they're whistling and they're yelling and throwing, anyway. So they bring in Snickers bars, hot dogs, and coax from the concession stand to feed us for the game. Now, it'd been a long time since I had a Coke and a hot dog and played hoop, but everybody's done it when they,

they're growing up. All right, fine. We go out, we win the game. We come back afterwards, and we're flying out that night from Philadelphia, and we got to get our per diem, which in the USBL at the time was $25 a day. And I kid you not, Mario Ellie, that I look into my envelope for my per diem, and there's like $8, $18 and $75. And I was like, yo, where's my $25? And like, well, you had 25, but then you had a Snickers and two hot dogs and a Coke before the game. And so we took that out of it. I was like, what? Wow.

That is not exactly NBA per diem stuff that you lived on. Same when I was with the Albany Petrus. We got stuck in Chicago and we were flying to play Grand Rapids. So we got there hour and a half before the game. And we're busy eating at the concession stand, just like you did. They're making hot dogs, for us, nachos, cold. So we had that before the game.

And just like you, Doug, we went on and kicked their buck by 20 after eating hot dogs and nachos before the game. CBA, USBL, it's all the same story. It is all the same story. You're famous for your kiss-of-death after making big threes, part of two NBA championship teams. Marielli joining us. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

This is the herd. What? Oh, three championship teams, sorry. but two with the rockets, but famously like making threes. Obviously, you would be a great player today because your ability to guard multiple positions and make shots and just kind of space the floor. But what is that like? Like, look, I wasn't a shooter and you see, and now guys are shooting at such an unbelievable

clip, but what is it like in the playoffs to be sitting there knowing when it comes to you, you're open, you're supposed to step in and make it, how do you process the emotions of it taking me back to when you were a player? Parks in New York, thinking of magic five, four, you know, envision in that, trusting the work. And it also helps Doug when you play with one of the top 50 greatest in the world

and Akeem Elijah on. He allowed all of us to get open shots because he couldn't be guarded one-on-one. Rudy implemented that offense when we all came, Sam, myself Robert, the four-in and one out. Yep. You know, I mean, that one in and four out. So Dream was

that one guy. You didn't double him. He was going to get 50 or 60 points. He was that good. So when you doubled him, we had our spacing great. It was either me, Maxwell, Cassell, Kenny Smith, or Robert already just out there salivating, waiting for the ball to come out. Because we know once Dream gets off to a good start, they're going to send a double. So we in all our positions. So if it goes to me, they close out to me.

I'm swinging. If they don't close out to me, I'm shooting. So we had a great system. And Dream was a key part of that system because he would pull. punish the offense because you couldn't guard them one-on-on-one. So once they doubled, our spacing was great, and Dream was a willing passer at that time. He trusted his teammates, so he would kick it out to us, and we didn't want to let him down. And then that kiss of death, you mentioned, Doug, it was Danny Ains doubled off me in the back court because we were

holding the ball for the last shot. So I shoot to the corner. They're not leaving Clyde. Robert flashes to have court. So it's me in the corner that Danny Shays and Elijah won. So I get the ball, And I know Danny Shays are not leaving dream. So I'm a set shooter. So I got time to set my feet. And when Danny Shays saw me about to release the shot, he closed out a little too late. And as a shooter, Doug, me and your shooters, you know when you shoot a shot and you know it feels good and it's going to go in. So everything about that shot felt good.

Did nothing but the bottom of that. Looked at my buddy Joe Klein. We've been blowing kisses to each other since game five. And of course, I got the last kiss called the Kiss of Death. Just basketball question. Did you watch the ball or do you watch the hoop? What was your... What was your...

I was watching the ball. The rotation was great. I didn't want a Kauai and Leonard that hit the rim nine times before going done. I wanted a nice all-nettor. And it did go all-nett. And it was funny after I made the shot. I really didn't feel my teammates jumping on me. I was so caught up in the moment with Joe Klein,

staring at him and blowing him to kiss of death. And I watched the video of Sam, Robert. Everybody's jumping on me. But I really just locked in at the moment of Joe Klein over there mad as hell. It turned in red after I made the shot. When obviously you played in the Jordan area, you coached in the LeBron era. There are some that believe, like LeBron, game one, a little passive down the stretch, right? Like driving in and looking to kick out.

Do you hold that against him, that sometimes he's passive as opposed to Jordan, who is seen as the ultimate alpha. Now, Jordan, in order to win championships, as those of us who remember, he actually had to learn to pass, whereas LeBron seemed to have to learn to take over. But do you hold it against LeBron that there are times in which he's passive in terms of scoring?

I do. And that's, to me, the difference in the two players is the mentality. I'm Jordan all day as the greatest of all time, competed against him, guarded him plenty of times. Love LeBron. He's on my all-time five. But when you're an alpha dog, Doug, and your team needs you to just ratchet it up,

I got to go with Michael Jordan because Michael Jordan knows how to dig deep, deep, deep, deep in a soul, whether he's sick, whether he's hurt, whether he's had a bad game. He just goes to a place where I see no other players go, tougher than everybody. And that's my thing with, LeBron. LeBron got all the skills, 6-9, 250, just graceful, don't miss games.

But it's the mentality that, to me, Jordan never been to a game seven in the playoffs, I think, in the finals, they said. That's pretty amazing to me going against magic, bird, and all this great talent back in those days. But to me, I have to go with Jordan. I love LeBron. To me, he'll do whatever it take to win. You know, LeBron, to me, is just nice. Okay, I got the shot, but this guy got a better shot, so I'm going to give it to him.

No, if it's the shot, Jordan don't care who's open unless he gets double and triple team. He's going to take that shot. And sometimes, yeah, it's a great point. Mario, great stuff, man. Awesome to catch up. Love to do it in person. The meantime, thanks to meet you here, a guest in the herd. Thanks, Doug.

Keep up to good work, buddy. All right, the pleasure is all mine. Three-time NBA champion, of course, kiss of death author, Mario Ellie. Ireland, Portugal, USBL to CBA to NBA to NBA. This is crazy. Crazy. All right, let's get to Vince with the news. No, no, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. That was pretty good. I remember that kiss of death. It was something to behold. So we go to the NBA first. Giannis Antitacumpo responded to a game one loss to the Orlando Magic with a 28.20 rebound five assist game to lead the bucks to a 111-196 win to tie

the series 1-1. Yonis said after the game, I think the whole team was ready for this game. We've got to understand you don't want to be down 2-0. we can still get back. But you don't want to put yourself in threat position, in that position, especially early in the playoffs. We knew that we would come out and just play hard, try to get a win.

And as a team, we knew for us to get a win, we got to play hard. Yeah, I mean, like, listen, I like Janus. I'm not going to take any of his, like English is not his first language. He speaks very clearly. But it's not like he's going to give us really something interesting. It's got to be hard. and he generally offers very bland commentary on it.

It's just about playing hard and playing together. And they did. Look, he was attacking. He was getting downhill. He was getting in the lane. And they made some shots. I thought they played better defensively. My thing with Janice is you have to,

they found Orlando was able to put Vujic on him in the first game and really kind of wall up. and when he goes into his spinning, Wurley Dervish stuff, stymie him. And in the second game, they just couldn't. They couldn't make enough shots to slow him down. If you can't make shots, you can't set your defense, and he starts going downhill.

That was the good bucks. And by the way, the bucks were favored by 13 and a half and still covered yesterday. That was crazy. But, you know, I'm not going to pick apart his commentary. It's hard enough to, it's hard enough for me to comment on games in my native language, let alone somebody to comment on games in their second most proficient language.

Yeah, he also pointed to Budenholzer being in the film room. They went over a lot of film after that first game and really hammered down what they wanted to accomplish for game too. The one thing that I think we're going to, I think we found is these guys, you watch the Rockets, you watch the Lakers, you watch the Mavericks. And when they're winning games, like dudes are into it. They are, I think they're building unbelievable chemistry. I really do. Well, yeah. It's going to last them to the future.

and I think that's probably one of the untold really good things that's happened from this bubble. And you get to scout other teams in person, whereas normally you're just watching on TV. You can go to any of these games when your NBA player. Yeah, it was one of the things that I noticed in the Rockets game when they were coming back from commercials. They were showing Russell Westbrook in the team huddles, really hyping up his guys and trying to get in there and tell them what he was seeing. These guys, here's what it's really important to employ upon people. even the guy who doesn't have crazy basketball IQ for an NBA player, they're NBA players. They've done, like Russell Westbrook, he may play sometimes like a blockhead,

but he's actually a brilliant dude in terms of he understands the sport. He's done it a ton at a very high level. And when you've played and suddenly now you can't play and you're watching and you're able to communicate openly with your teammates, like he's a great resource that guys respect. And I love that Russell. Also, for example, was so involved yesterday, so engaged. Yeah.

And finally, the Padres made some history yesterday when they became the first team to hit a Grand Slam home run in four consecutive games. That's crazy. It all started Monday when Fernando Tateach crushed his grand slam on a 3-0 count. We all know what happened with that one. Will Myers followed with one of his own on Tuesday. Manny Machado jumped in on the fun and hit one Wednesday. And Eric Hosmer extended the streak with one of his own on Thursday. Thursday. All four came against

the Rangers who the Padres swept in a home and home and away, I guess, is what they would call it. The Padres are the only team, only five teams in NBA history to hit Grand Slams in three straight games and the first team since the 2000 White Sox. Padres head to Houston to face the Astros

this weekend and look to extend their winning and possibly their Grand Slam streak. Well, that's pretty interesting that, I mean, we've been told year after year. Next year is the Padres. The Padres are the West Coast Cubs next year. This may be finally be next year. And that's Vince with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Herd Lye News. Oh, yesterday was National Radio Day. In celebration, we'll give you our best for last. Next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite

athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space.

for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me,

your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness, in this month. I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you're

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growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. Men, you feeling older? Neither am I. If you're not ready to give up, you want to feel more energized and lean,

try MDrive. Check it out at MDrive for Men.com. MDrive for Men.com. Doug Ghalyven for Colin. Big Man's back on Monday. And yesterday was National Radio Day. This is interesting to me. I don't think there's anybody like me in this business. And from that, I don't mean there's a bunch of different things, right?

Like McAfee obviously was a professional football players, become a radio, a solo radio host, which is I think a little bit harder to do than Golick's role of another former. He was a great football player, became a national radio host. So transitioning from athlete to host or solo host or co-host, whatever, is hard enough. In addition to having been at three different networks now, I actually grew up as a fan of sports radio and radio in general. My dad had like an old-time radio fascination that he had these cassette tapes.

and so he'd pick me up from school. We'd have basketball practice, but we'd have to go pick up kids in, like, in Inglewood or Compton or San Bernardino or Bakersfield or San Diego, bring him to practice and bring him home. And I'd be doing my homework, and he'd throw in the Bickersons

or the Jack Benny show, Burns and Allen. So, like, my radio affection and knowledge goes back years, which is why I'm the best possible guy to give you this list and best for last. It's almost the end of the show, but that

doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. Number 10. All right, here's what I did. I put the compiled a list, the Doug Gottlieb list, of 10 most influential radio shows. Sports radio shows. You ready?

I may offend somebody if I do. Too bad. Text me, complain to me. I put it together by myself on the fly and have a logic behind it. There's others. And I did not put myself on the fly. this list. Though I belong on the list.

Number 10. I'm going to give it to fine bomb. Paul. Look, not my cup of tea to talk SEC football all day, every day, or have Gene or Sue or the dude who died after burning down the trees at Auburn.

Or whatever he did to him, like disgraceful stuff. But it is kind of a thing. He is the mouth of the south. We'll give him number 10. Number nine. I grew up listening to a guy named Lee Hacksaw Hamilton from Escondito to

Poway. I want to talk sports with you. The best 15 minutes in radio. My dad, I don't know why he didn't just have a desktop radio, but he'd go out and his Buick, open up his car door, turn on the car, and listen to Lee Hamilton. That's power right there. Every day on the old mighty 690. Lee

Hamilton at 9. Number 8. My boys, SVP and Rissillo. Kind of the voice of our generation, great interviews, a little bit too inside the beltway. Love college football. Maybe a little bit too much. But they're both great guys. They're both interesting. Conduct good interviews. Work together well. They were a good show. Number seven. Personal favorite. PMS. No, no. Petros and Money Show. Long running, wins afternoon drive in L.A. Matt Money Smith knows everything about music and sports. Petros is

a football genius and savant. Plus, they're crazy funny. And generally Petros is a Petros is a crazy person. We'll put them in there at 7. Number six. Game night was my first show as on ESPN. When I was in between Notre Dame and Oklahoma State, I had an ex-girlfriend that was up in Santa Barbara, my brother in San Luis Obispo. And on Sunday nights, the first ever national sports radio show for ESPN was game night.

Tony Bruno and Chuck Wilson were part of it. Tony Bruno was hilarious. It was great. Number five. Rome. Rome. Has fallen recently, but Jim Rome was, again, I agree. grew up listening when he's on overnights in San Diego.

Huge. He has to have these huge shows. All his gigantic takes. Epic. Epic. Phenomenal. Jim Rome. Number five. Mike and Mike. Right? I mean, look, they got the best guest. They had the thing where they had a thing.

It was a big show. Made a lot of money. Number three. Mike and the Dog. The original New York Sports Radio show, Mike and Mad Dog Russo. Number two. The best interviewer in the history of the game is Dan Patrick. I love the Dan Patrick show.

We'll put them at two. And number one. And number one. And number one we'll give to Colin Cowherd. Not just because I'm on the show, but people try and copy his style. I know people who try and copy his pacing as well. Cowherd's number one. He's the king.

And he's the most influential radio show, sports radio show of all time. So, Fine Bomb, Hacksaw Hamilton, Van Pelt and Rusillo, PMS. Game night roam. Mike in Mike, Mike in the dog, DP and Cowherd. DP guys don't get mad at me, whatever. They're both incredibly influential. And I filled in for both in the last two days. Clippers win tonight.

I think they'll do a better job. And I think the Lakers pound Portland over the weekend. I'm Doug Gottliebiz's the Hurd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing huge. human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having

trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. On the Look Back at a podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. It was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed Human. Thank you.