The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 3 - More on Rory McIlroy winning The Masters, do the Lakers have any chance in the NBA playoffs?

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

He talks to Chris Broussard about the the NBA playoff matches including the Lakers chances  Golf writer and author Alan Shipnuck joins the show to tell Colin why Rory McIlroy has already surpassed Phil Mickelson as an all-time playerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRedio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. The most interesting team to me in the playoffs is Denver, because I think they're the one team, and they have the one player, Yokic, that goes right at Wembe. Lakers, Houston was much more captivating if Luca and Austin Reeves were around.

There's a story. Luca is going to arrive back in the States. He's had some stem cell and plasma injections. Legal in Europe, not here, but the NBA is okay with it. You know, my take is, let's say the Lakers can steal one of the first four games. We go into game five, Rockets League 3-1, and Lucas back. Chris Broussard is now joining us live. I mean, because Houston's such a vulnerable team.

It is interesting. I said to you before we went on, I said, Kevin Durant's a bit of an enigma. He's an all-time catch-and-shoot guy. He's a baller. He said before, I'm not your leader. I just love basketball. I totally appreciate his authenticity. on that. But do you, first of all, do you think there's a chance that Luca could come back in

this series? I mean, it would have to be late, like you said. I would be very surprised if he's back in this series. But they, you know, a lot of people are saying, man, just give this season. It's a rap. Let Luca have the entire off season. Bring it back healthier than he was this year and get ready for the future. But the Lakers seem, and Luca seem all in on how to. having him play if possible in these playoffs. So I would think a game six or seven is possible if this stem cell, you know, issue and procedure in Europe really works. But I still, I would be surprised ultimately if we see him back.

But to your point, if they can extend it to a game six and then Luca is able to play, then I think the Lakers could pull it off. If Luca were healthy, let alone Luca and Austin Reeves, I think the Lakers will win this series easily. But without those two, Houston should take them out. And if you're Kevin Durant and Alperin-Shingoong, and those are two stars for them, this should not go past five games.

That's right. You shouldn't even let it get to a point where Luca could come back. Yeah, put him in Thompson on LeBron. You've got your two score. Yeah. man, don't worry about offense. Guard LeBron. He's just a tough, physical,

long, young, hyper athletic player. What are we going to, you know, the Durant thing is interesting. Last year, the Rockets were second.

They had Durant, their fifth. Love him, but it does, you know, sometimes I think we think all great players are leaders, and they're not.

Like some great players don't want to be leaders. A lot of them. They're not, the quarterback you need to be. Where are you, on the leg, because let's just say they win the first round, and they get

extinguished, which I think they would against the Denver or San Antonio in Oklahoma City. I think they'd lose to Minnesota. What are we going to make of Kevin Durant in Houston? Well, this is a mess. It's been a mess. And I know they they've gotten up to the fifth seat. They've won

50 plus games, but it has been terrible. You said it. They were the second seed last year. They brought Kevin Durant in to be the missing. piece, right? Right. Like the final piece to the puzzle that can get us a championship.

And now they're a worst team. So this has been horrific. And it's been so bad, Colin, that the expectations have been lowered to the point where if they win this first round and then get beat by OKC in the second round, which of course would happen, everybody would kind of be like, hey, you know, at least they won a round. Like, that's how low expectations are falling. And as you said, Kevin Durant is an all-time great. score, an all-time great shooter, but he's not a leader.

And when you look at some of the top, you know, people want to push him into the top 10 all time. I say, no, he can be in the top 20. Yeah. And it's toward the 20, not 10, but he's not a top 10 player. Most of those top 10 guys had the intangibles, whether it was leadership, a killer instinct, something that set them apart and got their team wins. And Durant, look, I'm glad.

he got those two championships in Golden State, but when he has had to be the leader, whether it was Oklahoma City early in his career, obviously Brooklyn, Phoenix, now Houston, it's been, it's been horrific. And remember, the burner accounts here in Houston, those young players who probably grew up looking up to Kevin Durant had to read that he really didn't think they were that good. So I'm sure that didn't help the locker room either. You know, in I've said this, the last 30, 40 years, generally there's about three teams that can win the championship. I think Boston and Oklahoma City are obvious. I think I like San Antonio over Denver.

Yoko just missed a lot of time. Gordon's missed half the season. Murray's been healthy. If I said, you know, I mean, where are you on Denver, a red-hot team, if they face like a San Antonio, where are you on Denver right now let's just stay there yeah well my heart Colin is with the spurs because I like wimby I like seeing you know anomalies and something we've never seen before so I love him to win a championship this year and start some type of dominant run so I would like to see them beat Denver but

my head tells me the smart choice is the nuggets in that series now it could go either way that game a couple weeks ago which was an epic game maybe the best game of the regular season. Remember, the spurs were leading most of the way. And then they, you know, lost it in the end. Yokic was great in overtime and outplayed Wemby. So I feel good about Denver. I would add, you said Boston, OKC, San Antonio, I would add Denver as a team that could win the championship. I think they're obviously healthier than they've ever been this season. And they still don't have Peyton Watson back. I think they need him back for his defense. to have a good chance of getting to the finals.

But they, look, Aaron Gordon, when he plays, they are a pretty good defensive team. Without him, they're horrible defensively. That's their question. We know they can score. Yokic is great offensively with Murray having his best regular season of his career. Murray, we know his clutch. We've seen him in the playoffs and the finals before.

So Denver, I think the question with Spurs is obviously their inexperienced. and Denver has plenty of experience. So in that series in the second round, it'll be interesting to see the inexperience versus the experience. I think the experience is what got Denver that win a couple weeks ago. We'll see if it would continue over seven games. Okay, finally, no bench, can't defend the three, two best players offensively are defensive liabilities,

but they play in the east. They bring in Mike Brown. McHale Bridges has not played as well. O.G. has probably been a better player. Do you look at the Knicks like you did last year, whereas they're capable of winning the East, but not probable due to some inefficiencies of roster construction, which are, you know, lagers have them defensively, and so do the Knicks.

It's very interesting because most of us, including myself and some of my commentary throughout the season, we've looked at this as a disappointing season for the Knicks. Because I guess with the injuries, you know, Detroit kind of came out of nowhere, We knew Tatum was out. We expected the Knicks to kind of run away and lead the East, which they haven't done. But, Colin, their record this year was better than last year under Tibado. Their offensive and defensive ratings are better than last year.

They're in the top 10 in both. And I have to say this. I have them as the third team in the East behind Boston and Detroit. But I think they match up very well with the Celtics. We know they beat them last year in six games. games. And with Tatum or without him, they were about to go up 3-1 when he got hurt late in game four. So they were going to win that series even with Tatum. And the reason is they have the defenders on the outside in O.G. Ananoby, Mikhail Bridges, and Josh Hart, who can make

life tough for Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. In that series last year, they held each of those guys for Boston to 40% shooting. So they make it tough on them. And then can the other Celtics role players step up in the playoff moments? Remember, these Celtics, a lot of them are young. I mean, Shireman and guys that really haven't been there before, Vucevic. And so I think I give the Knicks a decent chance. I would favor Boston, but I do give the Knicks a solid chance of upsetting the Celtics. Again, I don't think they can beat Detroit, though.

I think Detroit is too physical for the Knicks. So it's good that they don't have to. face them in the second round. Yeah, we've seen that when they've met this year. Brew, great seeing your first things first after us. Thanks, bud. All right, Colin. Thanks. All right. I know, Jay Mack, you don't want to hear that, but Detroit's been a bad matchup, at least in the regular season. They get, listen, Detroit makes it ugly. So, I mean, I think it's fair to say that the Knicks can be a little pretty, with zero bench scoring. We'll see. Jay Mack. I may have to text Brew about this,

and we do a side wager. There's no way the Pistons are going to the NBA finals. Sorry. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington from the odd couple on Fox Sports Radio. And in addition to hearing us live weeknights from 7 to 10 p.m. Eastern on Fox Sports Radio, we are excited to announce brand new YouTube channel for the show. That's right. You can now watch the odd couple live on YouTube every day. All you got to do, search Odd Couple FSR on YouTube. Again, YouTube, just search Odd Couple FSR.

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We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts around there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band.

Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up as a potential.

title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice. radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis. And I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs. And on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen Chinchin win. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina.

But I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Not app. No, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. All right, let's get started with Drake May, Colin, and the New England Patriots. How about that season he had?

Pretty darn good. It ended up in the Super Bowl before he got kind of humbled by the Seahawks. We got an interesting chart here of quarterbacks after losing the Super Bowl in the last seven years, Colin. This one is a bit surprising. May called it kind of a humbling experience. There's been a lot of failures. The year after losing the Super Bowl, four of the last seven have. missed the playoffs entirely.

All right. One lost in the wild card round, that was Jalen Hertz. Two in the AFC championship. Well, the Patriot's schedule is much tougher next year. And last year it was historically easy. Also, it was a weird year where, you know, like Joe Burroughs, Bengals and Lamar missed time. Patrick Mahomes. I do not think the Patriots are going to reach the Super Bowl.

I don't. I think they're going to be good. I don't think they're going to reach the Super Bowl. I am curious, though. Do you think that this was kind of one of these like sophomore, good fortunes for May? Or is there legitimacy, hey, he's a top six, seven quarterback in the league? Oh, I think May's really good. I think he's really exceptional.

I think he's the East Coast version of like Justin Herbert. I think he's really, really, really good. But I do think things worked in their favor. I think Bow Nicks getting hurt worked in their favor. I think a couple of powerhouse teams. I mean, the division now, you got the dolphins basically are hamstrung with two. his contract and the Jets have staffing issues. So, I mean, it's a two-team race there. So, but a lot of, a lot of Brady success. I mean, the Jets were dysfunctional. And when the Jets weren't dysfunctional,

Rex Ryan beat Belichick and Brady a couple times. Oh, yeah. So, you know, I, I don't think New England's going anywhere, but last year felt like the football gods kind of nudged them along the way. Totally agree. All right, let's move on, Colin, to the NFL draft and the Miami Dolphins. A team you mentioned, you didn't want to use the word tanking, but I would. will. They're tanking next year. Word on the street is Miami is looking to rebuild under Jeff Halfley, and reports indicate the dolphins are big fans of Spencer Fanow, the Utah tackle. They're looking at him possibly at 11.

Now, they're rebuilt. This is a full tear down to the studs. You're a real estate guy. You know about rebuilds. They don't have a lot of talent there. I like the idea of, hey, let's get the foundational pieces on the offensive line. By the way, the Jets have done this in the last two drafts. They've got their bookends on the offensive.

of life, they just don't have a quarterback. Right. You know, I think he's great. I mean, Utah has two tackles that are first-round guys. I think Kansas City would sweep him up if they could get him. I'm never going to have a problem with a team drafting an offensive tackle in the first round. I mean, I like some more than others.

But, I mean, that's when Harbaugh could have taken a neighbor's, the wide receiver, and took Joe Alt. And when Slater got hurt at left tackle, they moved Alt over to left tackle. I will never I mean I just I'm not a big fan of taking wide receivers now I think Cleveland doesn't have any and Carnell Tate is their best receiver significantly first day on the field but by and large I have always believed

unless you're getting a quarterback trade down and take if you look at the history of great offensive tackles the 25 best ever 22 or 23 were first rounders there's just not that many people that are 6-7 with good feet they're just not. So Fanoa doesn't, he's not like Jonathan Ogden good. No.

But, you know, he could be a dominant right tackle. That good spot to start for Kansas City or Miami. Offensive line depth is massive to protect Malik Willis, clearly. All right, final story, Collins, Baker Mayfield and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They missed the playoffs for the first time since the pre-Bradie era. And Baker is in a final year of his contract right now. Co-owner Joel Glazer says Baker has gone above and beyond anything they could have asked for, and it sounds like they're going to give him what he wants in his new deal.

Now, you and I have talked about this a lot. So these quarterbacks, Baker making $30, $40 million is palatable. Yeah. Baker in the $50 mil? That just doesn't work. And I know Baker's not going to want to hear that. He's had a good run in Tampa. But you start to pull pieces off the board if you've got to pay him $50,000, right?

Yeah, I think Baker is. perfectly um perfectly suited to be a mid-30 high 30 um he was banged out last year you know i mean i think he's proven himself as a starting franchise quarterback somewhere around 15th best in the league

so mid you know i and as much as i like sam darnald i think a lot of his success is his general manager um and the fact that he had the kind of contract seattle could go out and navigate and grab some guys off the street so i two things can be true i can like darnell and Baker, but I don't, I mean, I don't like the best quarterback in the league making 50 or 60. I think you just limit yourself. I mean, what was it last year?

We talked about just the other day that, you know, six of the top seven quarterback contracts last year, missed the playoffs. It was something there. So Baker in the high 30s doesn't bother me. Mid-40s, that's one or two starters you can't keep. Now, they lose Mike Evans to free agency, but they still have Godwin and Abuka was awesome for half the season last year before kind of fading. So I think the bucks are a contention. Weirdly, Colin, that division is now kind of sort of like above mediocre. I mean, New Orleans showed some things.

I am going to be picking Atlanta again. And then Carolina, of course, made the playoffs. So, you know, I think they kind of have, I don't know. Who's the favorite in that division, Colin? Who you got? Well, you got Tampa. I think I'd probably go Carolina. Probably.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what they're going to do with Bryce Young. I don't know what they're going to do. I mean, made the playoffs. almost beat the Rams twice. Interesting, you know, clearly Canales made them better. You know, he kind of did a

Liam Cohen with the Jags. Are they Super Bowl teams? No. But I think Canales squeezes all the juice out of Brigham. Yeah. Jay Mack with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Lie News. Well, Rory McElroy is the most fascinating golfer in the world. and right now he's probably the best golfer in the world. The man that wrote the book on him has covered him for years. Sometimes Rory doesn't like this writer. Alan Shipnucks around the corner,

and he will be joining us next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, Help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo.

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action.

with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife-Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast,

I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jenchian went. I mean, she went down in three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck.

Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I Heart Women's Sports. Well, timing's important in life, and Alan Shepnuck, 30-plus years is the golf rider, New York Times bestselling author, just came out with a Rory McElroy book, which I finished last week. It's really fascinating. And, you know, and let's bring Alan. He's finally back home, and I'm undisclosed location, but I'm jealous beyond words,

and I'll just leave it at that. You know, the Rory book is many things, but golf Allen has had a reputation for years. I didn't golf as a kid. We didn't have the money. I didn't buy golf courses. It's kind of elitist. But then there's Arnold Palmer, who was an every man. And then I think Rory has that in that he's a very vulnerable guy.

You know, Scotty Schaeffler a couple years ago said after a big win, he's like, it's not the most important thing to me. And it's like, Rory, I know it's the most important thing to him. him. And has that always been the case? I would argue the drought has made him more emotional, or has this always been who he is? Yeah, I mean, even when he was a kid who took on the golf world as this incredible prodigy, he was still crying after the victories. It's always meant so much to him. He was a can't miss kid from the time he was five or six years old in Northern Ireland.

And the burden of genius is a real thing. And he's always felt that. weight of expectation. And so, yeah, last year the Masters was catharsis. You know, this year, it was joy. And but it, he, as you say, he just burns to fulfill this destiny of his. And that's why we're so invested in it. You know, Sheffler, it's like he's checking off a to-do list. Okay, let me win the Masters. Let me win the PGA championship. For Rory, there's so much emotion built into it, that incredible hug with his parents. And that was only a second time his mom, Rosie had been at one of his major championship victories. And, You could just see this lifelong quest fulfilled by this whole family.

It really is a special part of his story. You know, he was 10 over on par fives. He hit 31 fairways, which is like bizarrely low. I think it's the lowest ever for a champion. I mean, there were portions of it. I mean, if somebody said, how would you describe this master's for Rory, I would say it was the recovery championship. It was recover.

I mean, how would you describe it? In some ways, it's his most impressive victory on the big stage because he never really had his A game. And we know that Rory's driver is his superpower. It's the differentiator. And he did not overwhelm this golf course with his driver. He was chipping, putting. It was managing himself.

It was squeezing the most out of his rounds on Thursday and Friday. And then when the jacket was there for the taking on Sunday, when everything was going sideways, he'd made that double bogey. He bogey six. but the whole tournament's been thrown into chaos. Then he found it and he started flushing the ball. And he hit great shots, obviously, on seven. That six iron into number eight was world class.

The shot he hit into 12 was kind of going to be the defining birdie. That's the scariest shot in championship golf. He went right at that flag. So when he needed it most, he kind of accessed his genius. But then he was still holding on coming in. We saw it on 17 and 18. Those were great escapes. It was just he never had his best.

stuff. And for Rory to conquer Augusta National to dust Scotty Schaeffler when he's not driving it well, it really is a delicious turn of events. And it's tantalizing to look forward because he's become such a complete golfer. He knows how to win on these stages. And we know he's going to start driving well soon enough. And then it's really fun to think about how far, how deep can Rory take this. Yeah, 10 under on the par fives, my bad. But he struggled putting early, recovery shots, only hit 31 fairways, 10 under on the par fives. If, you know, I talked about like John Elway, M.J. Otani, there are these audacious talents and the immense pressure. And then they win and everything gets a little easier.

You know, when you were around Rory over the course of the last four to five days, did it did it to you when you were in his space? Did he just feel different than the Rory you'd known previously or a year ago? I think we talked about this. The last time you had a conversation early in Master's Week that Rory had a jauntiness early in the week. And no one's ever enjoyed being defending champ as much as Rory did. He was just swanning around in the green jacket. He was at the drive trip and putt. He was at the women's amateur.

Of course, a Tuesday night dinner. He was having so much fun. He was so relaxed. That's when I knew he was going to contend. And then he came out and he squeezed a lot of his rounds on Thursday and Friday. but I think all that disappeared on Master's Saturday when it was like, okay, this is, this has really happened. I can win this thing. And then the clench factor.

And part of what makes Roy so compelling is there is a fragility there. There is a vulnerability. He is not a machine like tiger. And it's always going to be a high wire act with Rory. And of course, we saw that again and again. Like, apparently he's always going to make a double bogey on Sunday when he wins the master. Like most people cannot survive that. But Rory has died.

a thousand deaths on the golf course at this point in his life. And he's unfazed. He just keeps marching forward. And that tenacity and that resilience is probably his most incredible trait as an athlete, more than anything to do with his ball striking. And so he was three down through six holes on the final round, but he just kept coming. And as he's making birdies, everyone else started to retreat. And he just grabbed the tournament by the throat. And it was tremendous performance under pressure. It just shows how much he's matured as a player and as a competitor. Mickelson never won the U.S. Open, finished second six times.

As you noted, Mickelson was never number one. That's mostly because of Tiger. But I would say the depth and quality of golfers that Rory faces feels like as good and as deep as it's ever been. I kind of feel Rory Mickelson could be a coin flip. I kind of think another master's win puts Rory ahead of Mickleson. I mean, not that this is the be-all end-all argument, but it is fascinating because I think he's in that rarefied air now. Maybe not Jack Tiger, but then there's the Faldos and the Micklesons and the Palmer's.

Where are we on Rory's legacy? Well, respectfully, I would say he's already surpassed Phil because of, you know, Phil never got to number one. He never won a money title. Rory's won three money titles in the U.S. He's won seven in Europe. He's the greatest global golfer, you know, since Gary Player. He's done all these things that Phil couldn't do, including win the U.S. Open.

And the only thing that Phil has on his resume is more PGA tour victories. But when you factor in what Rory's done in Europe, that's a wash anyway. The weight of the career grand slam, it moves them past Mickelson, past Faldo, past Trevino. These are all guys who have six major championships. I mean, Rory is in very rare a fight. air. The guys with one seven, you know, that's a Mount Rushmore. It's Palmer, it's Sneed, it's Sarazin, Bobby Jones, if you don't count the amateur victories. So there's,

Rory has a chance to be one of the top five golfers of all time. He needs probably two more majors than he's there. So he, what he's doing is, you know, 13 months ago, you'd say Rory might have underachieved a little bit in his career. And now with the Grand Slam, going back to back at Augusta, which only three other players have ever done, like he is marching up the ladder of the all-time greats. And it's awesome that we get to watch it in real time. You know, it's crazy. So I had said earlier, there was the prodigy stage, the rock star stage, the drought stage. This is the legendary stage. But if you look at his physical, his body, he's obviously disciplined. Whereas with Phil Mickelson, his lifestyle choices and his golf could

be undisciplined, right? With Rory sometimes, like on the 18, I'm like, dude, grab a five wood. Just get it down the middle. Don't give us all the heart attack. Just get it and just hit it 208. And yet he goes and it's like super aggressive. I guess my take is with Mickelson, I understood the lack of discipline. I saw it all the time reading your book, Phil. I read it.

Sometimes with Rory, I'm like, where does this wild side come from? It's just the way he plays the game. He, the driver. is his favorite club. And so if you're the caddy and you say, I don't like driver here, what you're saying to Rory is, I don't think you're good enough in this moment. You don't want to put that thought into his head. It's like,

yes, you're a generational driver of the golf ball. Just do what you do. Now, obviously he didn't, but he had because he had, you know, a stroke to play with, you could make boge and still win the green jacket. The thing about Augusta, they actually trim the trees. These guys always have a shot because

they clip the branches. They want you to go for it. They They want the hero recovery shots. Like if you go, I was just down at the players' championship. Those trees are so thick, you can't hit those shots. Augusta literally thins out the branches because they want you to have a window. Now, you might set yourself on fire, but it's exciting to watch. And so I think Rory kind of knew no matter where he drove it, he's going to be able to make five.

And it turns out he was right. Yeah. Okay. Your new book Rory, the heartache and triumph of golf's most human superstar just came out. and it's a great read. There's a moment where Rory is very unhappy with Alan. There is a depth to him, a humanity to him, and my staff just reminded me of this.

I don't know how much you follow the New York Jets, but Rory McElroy has won the Masters twice since the Jets had an interception. So he, sorry, Jason, I apologize for that. I hope the book's going well. And when's the last time you saw Rory? Did you have any interaction the last time you saw him? Yeah, so that was, the last time he really had a chance to talk as humans was at Pebble Beach earlier this year.

And I'd given him a copy of the book early that week. And I said, I wouldn't give it to you so far ahead of publication if I thought you were going to hate it. And he was appreciative, but I bumped into him Sunday night. He ran in each other. And he told me he started reading it and he liked it, it made him laugh. And that kind of speaks to Rory, even though he'd been spiky throughout the reporting of it. in the end, he always carries himself with a certain amount of grace and humanity. And so I think that was his way of burying the hatchet.

So I'm in a good place of Rory. But yeah, it's kind of fun that he won this week when it comes to the book. But it's not about me calling it. I'm just a servant of the golf fans out there. So I'm happy that it's going to give this book a little more life because I think it's a feel-good story. I mean, those images of Rory and his parents, like if you don't get misty-eyed at that, you're probably dead on the inside because it's just the ultimate sort of rags or riches story. And he's a champion that we can celebrate.

I mean, you look at the last 30 years in golf, it's Tiger, it's Phil, it's Rory. And two of them have been so diminished by scandal and addiction and greed. And Rory just, he's a great champion. And I actually think he'll become a member of Augusta National. I think they're going to tap on the shoulder. And it's only been Arnie Jack and Ben Crenshaw. I've been given that honor. but he's such a great ambassador.

He looks good in green. It's just the way that Rory moves to the world. It's so impressive. Alan, you're great. New York Times bestselling author of the book is Rory. Highly recommend it. Always a pleasure to see you. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You bet. Yeah, it's just he's, you know, I've spent a lot of time on golf today, but I think Rory's really unique. He was, I mean, he struggled getting a ball in a fairway. It's wild. I like what Alan said.

about they want you to be more aggressive they're they're trimming the branches they want you to be aggressive struggled putting yesterday but when after right after 12 uh par fives had success but fairways didn't a lot of recovery shots and um yeah it's it's the one event i think i speak for a lot of people it's the one event where the course carries a lot of weight i mean i love watching you know a pinehurst or u.s open of st andrews but it's just fun it's fun TV and Rory just, you know, like we said, about certain actors just pop on screen and pop through the screen. He does the exact same.

And again, Tiger would shut the door on Sunday with a lead. Rory opens it. Take a seat. Let's go for a fun ride. And that's what it was. All right. We'll see you tomorrow. Good stuff.

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