The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - NBA Finals

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

More thoughts on the NBA Finals including if the Heat have a chance   Guests: Chris Broussard, Ryan HollinsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer,

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From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Hurd. Now let's get this party. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome back to the herd. Jason McIntyre in for Colin Cowherd.

Colin back on Monday. I'm excited about this next guest. I've known him for years. He has been at Fox. He was out here in L.A. And, you know, he needed a sparring partner, somebody who could actually hang with him and debate NBA. A lot of guys could not. And I stepped up and I was like, all right, you know, Bruce Ard, let's do it.

And we had a lot of fun. Then he moved back east. and now he's doing first things first. Joining the Cowherd Global Network is my guy, Chris Bussard. He is retired from basketball, but the takes are still fire from Bussard. Chris, how you doing, my man? I'm great, J. Mack. You definitely were my sparring partner.

I don't know about that you hung with me, but you were definitely my sparring partner. Yes, yes. I was the Mayweather. You were the other guy holding up the gloves. Oh, wow. Okay. All right, so let's get started with the big news in the NBA today. Frank Vogel.

Former last scene with LeBron and AD is going to be the new head coach of the Phoenix Sons. We were talking during the break and it's like, is this that good of a job? I know you got two superstars, but it was the last job filled. Kevin Durant's gone on publicly on record.

We don't need a coach. We just roll the ball out. He said that in Brooklyn with Kyrie Irving. You got the DeAndre Aiton question looming, the Chris Paul situation. I don't know. Is this a great job? I think it's a good job because, you know, you've got two of the best players in the world,

you know in Kevin Durant and Devin Booker. Now, what is around them? That's going to be the question. If I were Phoenix, I am trying to shop Chris Paul and see what I can get for him. If I can add some depth for him. You may not be able to. You may have to bring him back. And then DeAndre Aiton again, he's a guy that can get you some added depth on the market,

if indeed they move on from him. If not, you know, maybe he responds well to a new voice in Frank Vogel, because he's still a good player. He's not a great center, but he's a guy that can get you 18 points and 10 rebounds with very little offense run for him. Maybe you run a little more offense through him or for him. Maybe Vogel will do that. But Vogel's a good coach.

I've always said this, remember when he was in Indiana, and I know that was three jobs ago, right? Los Angeles, Orlando, Indiana. But when he was in Indiana, with a big three of Paul George, Roy Hibbert, and Lance Stevenson, he was given the Heedles problems in the playoffs. So he knows his exes and O's. He's just got to make sure that these players are, you know, in line with what he's saying. And if he commands their respect, then, you know, they can be a contender out there in the West next year.

Is Vogel the kind of coach, in your opinion, Chris, where this makes it more or less likely that the sons make a move like bringing in Kyrie Irving and some kind of swap for DeAndre Aiton? Wow. Kyrie, I don't know if that has anything to do with the coach because we've seen Kyrie have problems with all manner of coaches. I mean, you mentioned Kevin Durant saying he didn't need a coach. That really was Kyrie.

Kyrie was the ringleader of that. So I don't know if that's the deciding factor. Obviously, you want a guy who you think can command his respect. if indeed there is such a person. But it'll be interesting to see what they do with Kyrie. When you're talking about him in Phoenix, you know what the first question is. Does Durant want to do it again?

And I'm sure Durant doesn't want to answer that question publicly. But if you're the sons and you're really thinking about Kyrie, you do have to talk with Durant privately and say, hey, are you willing to run this thing back? And, you know, it didn't work out in Brooklyn. And a lot of it was Kyrie's fault. and so you got to get Durant's blessing first. All right, let's do one more coaching thing

before we get to the finals. Nick Nurse, and a bit of a surprise goes to Philadelphia. I had the take earlier that, like, finally, the Sixers are doing the right thing. They're going away from a player's coach and going more towards someone who's going to hold them accountable.

And Nick Nurse definitely does that. He isn't known as a demanding coach, wants to hold guys accountable, and I don't know how that's going to work with James Harden. It got a little tense in the press conference. I don't know that Nick Nurse exactly wants Hardin there. We know Mori has a relationship with him, but I'm curious your thoughts on the Philly situation.

Well, one, I thought Nurse had a great quote, which was winning is the cell, right? I guess that it. Winning is the cell. Like, do you want to win? I mean, he's talking about James Hardin. If you really want to win, then you're going to stay here. And I think Nick Nurse and others, I'm sure, in the Sixers organization,

really questioning, does James Harden really want to win a championship? Because honestly, I'm questioning that, J-Mack. If you do, why is Houston even on the table? Why? Now, I've heard, you know, family concerns and things like that. First of all, he's from Los Angeles. I don't know his family dynamic, but I know he's from Los Angeles. And you're making enough money where if I was in his shoes, I can move my family up to Philadelphia.

So I don't, like, why is Houston even a consider? duration if you want to win a championship. So I think the Sixers need to sit down. I think they need to take control of the situation, not let Hardin dictate it, and say, look, do you want to go to Houston? If so, we'll look and see if there's a sign and trade. I know you don't like losing players for nothing, and that'd be tough. He's a good player.

But I'm trying to win the championship, J. Mack, and I don't know. I've got to be honest, I've seen enough of Harden failing in the big moments in the playoffs. Is he going to help them get to a championship? So if it's not Houston, I'm looking at what other places might you want to go? Because we can maybe do a sign and trade there. So if I'm Nick Nurse, I'm thinking maybe I want my man Fred Van Vleet from Toronto. So, yeah, Hardin to me, I'm very disappointed in him even considering Houston. Because that tells me you're not trying to win.

Well, okay, let me try to defend Hardin, which is a little silly. So the last two stops he was in, he wasn't the guy. He's not the guy anymore in Philly. He's not the guy anymore in Brooklyn. He was in Houston, and he got closer to the finals, I thought, with Houston than he did with Philly or Brooklyn. In Houston, he was a little younger, obviously, and Chris Paul was his sidekick, but he pushed that loaded Warriors team, which I've called the greatest team in NBA history, KD, Curry. He pushed them to seven.

Now, they came up short, but maybe he still thinks I can be an alpha in this league, and I can do that in Houston. I ain't the dude in Philly. This is Embed's team. Could that be an argument for James? No, because it's not the same Houston team. And Mike Dantone's not the coach. Now, Emao Doka's a very good coach, but he's not going to coach the style that Mike Dan Tony did.

He's defense first. Like, you're not going to be James Hardin all day, all night, all the time in Houston anymore? That's over. And at Hardin's age, I don't think he could do it consistently. And again, that team didn't win, bottom line. And you had Chris Paul and some other really good players. Houston is young.

I want to see Jalen Green and some of these other young players showcase themselves. If I'm Houston and I have James Harden, guess what? I'm asking Hardin to play the same role he played in Philly. Be a great distributor. He is a great distributor. He did it in Brooklyn with Kyrie. He was phenomenal. And then he's solid.

I thought he was an all-star level player this year in Philly. So he's not, I don't know where he's going and thinking he's going to get up all those shots and average 33 points a game. game again. I don't think Houston is even that place. And again, he left there. Why? Because I want to win. He left Brooklyn because Kyrie wouldn't come back, you know, during the vaccination, and he wants to win. Well, here you are in Philly. You got the MVP, you've got other great role players. Now you've got a championship coach. I know Doc was a championship coach, but you got a new coach. So why not give it a shot there if you really want to win a championship? I think this is

surrender. I think if you're going back to Houston, And you're like, man, I just want a ball. I just want to get my ball, put up some numbers, have fun. Look, that's your choice. It's your choice to live the life you want to live. But I'm just saying it tells me you're not really interested in chasing that championship. It's like, man, I tried. I gave it three years.

Everybody's saying I got to get a ring. I gave it three hard years. I'm done. Does it Kevin Durant? Broussard, doesn't Kevin Durant also just say, I just want a ball. I don't want to be a leader. I just want a ball. I want a hoop.

That's like his famous quote. I just want a hoop. Isn't that what Hardin's doing? But he's not saying he doesn't want to win. I mean, what was Kevin Durant's list? Did it include some lottery teams? No, it was Phoenix. Because he knew I can go here and win.

I get it. He's not a leader by his own admission. But not being a leader isn't saying I don't want to win. And so I think these are completely different things. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the show. the I Heart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions,

my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw,

unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam Jett. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so let's move to John Moran, one more before the finals. Sorry. The Adam Silver comments were, I don't know, just alarming, disturbing, whatever you want to say. So basically he admitted that the NBA uncovered more evidence, but he doesn't want to drop the news because it'll interrupt the finals. Well, Adam, you don't interrupted the finals. There's speculation, or we look at 50 games, full season, like what's on the table here?

I don't know. He kind of embarrassed the league, Chris. Adam Silver is going to come down pretty hard. I know this is going to become a racial issue on social media. Everything does. I don't know. It's looking bleak for John Morant, no? Well, I don't know.

I mean, Gilbert Arena's what he did was worse. That was 10 years ago. He got 50 games. He brought a loaded gun on to in the practice facility. All right? That's not, I'm not defending what Jod did. That was bad, too. But this was worse.

What arenas did. And he got 50 games. So I don't know that it'll be that harsh. Now, look, everybody's focusing on Silver saying they uncovered other things. So what those other things are, we don't know. But remember, when Jai first got, you know, had the gun on Instagram, there started to be all these reports about, well, this was this been going on for a while. You know, before it got public, people were saying his behavior in Memphis had been going on for a while.

So a lot of it may depend on what else they uncovered. I'm thinking more like, now I may be wrong, but 30 games, something like that, I think when my main concern with this, and I hope this is the league's main concern, I know they have to, you know, watch their image and things like that. But my concern is for John Morant's health and safety. All right. physically because this this fake gangster act that he's putting on could put you in harms way down there in Memphis or other places but beyond that his mental health as well because he said when he

first had the first incident with the gun he said you know I got to find a better way to deal with my stress and you know with my the pressure that's on me and then when he came back from the eight days of counseling or whatever it was. And he said, you know, I found a better way. You know, I'm in a better mental space than I've been in years. And then how many people would go on Instagram and do what he did the second time after you've been warned by the league? I'm sure Nike talked to him all that you had to lose.

And then the last thing, Jay Mack, the Instagram posts about his mom, his dad, his baby, girl, and then buy. And that fort spurned sparked a welfare or wellness check by the police down there in Memphis. That was scary. And I hope I'm wrong, but I got to be honest, I don't buy that he was just saying he's getting off social media. You know, he sees his parents all the time. He talks to him all the time.

He could easily tell them that. And so I think Jai really needs to get counseling, get his head straight. And so I think a suspension will actually be good for him. because it gives him time to get himself straight, get himself in order, and it hopefully would serve as a deterrent to future incidents like this. So that's my main concern. I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's lost right now.

And he has the money to do whatever he wants. And when a lost person, lost person with a lot of money, that can be trouble. So he's got to get himself straight. All right, Chris, let's get to the NBA finals. kind of a beat down last night. Denver trail for, I believe, 34 seconds. They led by double digits for almost the entire second half.

Yolkich utterly dominant. Jamal Murray. My guy, Jamal Murray. A lot of doubters on Jamal Murray. I mean, he's emerged as one of the real clutch players in the league right now. Built me a case for how Miami gets back in the series because I saw the spreads up to nine and a half for game two. Nuggets overwhelming favors to win this series.

It's tough to make a case, man. Yeah, look, Denver's a bit. better team. And I would argue Milwaukee and Boston were the better teams and certainly Miami beat them. But Milwaukee and Boston were better teams, more talented teams with flaws, right? Milwaukee, let's call it what it is. Their best player can't shoot. All right? And as great as Janice is, he's still arguably, I think Yokic is the best player in the world, but Janus is right there, probably second. But that's a major flaw. And Miami's great defensively with Eric Spolstra and they were able to come up with schemes that bothered him.

And so that's a major fall. Plus, Milwaukee didn't have a lot of athleticism on the wings outside of Drew Holiday. And then Boston was just a team that wasn't well coached this year, a team that, you know, they lack focus and they often lost focus, and they don't have a playmaker to really get Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum in the greatest situations. This Denver team is a more talented team that doesn't have those flaws. So Miami beat more talented teams in the East with their heart, their grit, their toughness, a great leader and star in Jimmy Butler, and a great coach in Eric's bolstra.

Well, now you're matched up against another more talented team who doesn't have those flaws that Boston and Milwaukee have, and they got just as much heart and toughness and grit as the heat do. and they're at just as well coached. All right, so they're not going to win. The heat is going to lose this series. They may get a game or two because they don't quit and because they execute well and Spolster will come up with some adjustments.

But this is Denver series. They're hungry and they got the best player in the world. And as you said, one of the great clutch players in the league right now in Jamal Murray and a great role playing cast around those two. So, yeah, I picked them in six. It might not get past five.

It's tough, tough to envision that. It's weird. Yokic is so damn good. I said earlier he was as dominant as Shaquille O'Neal was at the height of his career. Shaq just bullying people. Well, Yokic can bully them down low. He can take him at the elbow and make the right pass. He can hit threes.

He's just the evolution of the big man. No more. You don't think a big guy's as like stepping out to the perimeter and hitting threes. That's like the new center. I am just curious. It's weird. We've done this like, Oh, Janice is the best player in the world.

Joel Embed is the MVP. Chris, if you're starting a team right now, age matters, are you taking anybody over Yokic? No. He's only 28. He's going to play a long time. Hasn't really had injury problems. I think he's the best player in the world.

He's a point center. Remember when Scotty Piping, you back Paul Presley guys that were kind of those first point forwards. Well, he's a point center. And as you said, look, defensively, we know he's not great, but because of his size, he's immense and his smarts. He's not a liability. Now, he's not, you know, Embed or Anthony Davis or Janice defensively,

but he's not a liability because of his size and his intelligence. But offensively, he does it all. There's nothing he can't do. He can shoot the three. He will back you down when the situation calls for it. and go old school and post you up or, you know, jump hook on you. He'll hit the mid-range shot.

He's a tremendous passer, best passing big man ever, and he's a great rebounder. And he's unselfish. I don't know what more you want from an offensive player. And so this is his time, and now it's up to the rest of the league to figure out, okay, how can we combat the Denver Nuggets?

Because right now, I think they're the team to beat. Yeah, it feels like Chris, word of an inflection point? I think that's the word in the league where the most dominant players, the best most complete players are Yokic Janice and Donchich. What do they have in common? They didn't play basketball here growing up. And, you know, I'm talking about it.

Look who's the next guy. The number one pick's about to be another international players. And then in 2024, if you want to look ahead to that draft, because I do drafts for Fox Sports, three of the top five guys are European. Something's going on in this league right now, Chris, where you've got to have all the tools in your box, and it seems like, even though Yonis can't shoot free throws,

the Europeans have it and the young guys don't. I mean, you mentioned Jalen Green in passing about Houston earlier. I like him. He can give you 20 a night, but so what? You know, he's not changing anything about the game. Jordan Poole, who I love, he ain't changed anything about the game. It just feels like we're in this weird moment where AAU basketball, something's got to change.

The international players are better. The internet, the ultra elite, we still got great American players. Yes. John Moran, we talked about early, Jason Tatum, Donovan. I mean, Stefan LeBron, those are older guys, but even younger guys, we got some great American ones. Zion, if he could stay healthy. But the elite of the elite among the younger players are all international, essentially. And here's what's happening.

Look, in America, our sports is tied to education, right? So you play your high school league. You play your college basketball. And over there, it's not. And so at 14, 15, if you're good, you essentially, you become pro. And you're getting beat up by grown men. You're getting coached hard. You're not the superstar at 15.

Okay? You're humble. And you see that with the international stars as well. And you're learning the right way. And you're focusing on basketball. I'm sure they probably get tutoring or something like that. But you're focusing on basketball. That's not the case here.

And I think the AAU, look, let's face it, if you're an AAU coach, it's hard to jump on your player for not playing defense, your star player, or for taking bad shots, or for not sharing the basketball, because he'll just go to another AAU team. And our young stars at 15, 16, if you're really all that, guess what? You're a celebrity on social media. You got millions of followers. So you think you all that, and you're a sophomore and high? high school. All right. So that's the difference. You see these dudes over there are getting worked

and getting taught the right way and they're working on their skills. We play AAU games all weekend. Right? You're not working on your skills. And furthermore, our players work on, they work hard. I'm not, the American players work hard. But they work hard on what they want to. The handle, the three point shot. You got to work hard at everything. Get everything in your toolbox. And I'll say this for M.B. And these are international guys, but M.B. and Janice, they got to improve, right? They had some unceremonious

exits from the playoffs this year, right? Watch Yokic. I've been saying this about M.B. for years. These guys, add the post game that Yolkich has. He doesn't use it all the time. The days of Shaq, Elijah, I, whoever, posting

up on the block for 40 minutes are over. I'm fine with that. But when the situation calls for it, J. Mack, what his yokish do he backs you down he backs you down all that in his bag the three the mid-range the passing and he goes old school and backs you down embied and yonis need to learn that they there's no reason they can't work on that this off season and come back with that in their toolbox just when this situation calls for it mb's a great mid-range shooter continue to do that but add the back down to your game. And same with Janus, add that to you. He'll probably never be a great jump shooter.

But if you add that to your game, a little postplay, that will serve him very well. Did you just remind me of the days I used to wind you up and you would just go off? That was a good little rant there, Chris. I like what I did. I was the Yokets there. You were the Aaron Gordon slamming at home. Chris Bussard, first thing first right after this show. Chris, enjoy the weekend and continued success, my man. All right, brother. See you. All right. At the end of your... Oh, coming up next, Ryan Hollins on the show.

Former NBA Center talks about Yokic. At the end of your first year, Discover credit cards automatically double all the cashback you've earned. That's right. Everything you've earned doubled. Seriously, see terms and check it out for yourself at Discover.com slash match. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, gang, this is Jay Glazer. host of Unbreakable, a mental health podcast, and each week we try to help turn our mental health issues into mental wealth, and we dive in with everyone from the world of sports and entertainment

like Sean McVeigh, Lindsay Vaughn, Michael Phelps, David Spade, Guy Fiami, and also those who can help us in between the ears, anyone from a therapist to someone like Ed Milet or John Gordon. So each week, listen to Unbreakable with Jay Glazer, a mental health podcast on I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hart Radio app. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush

didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode

where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years. from black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The herd is excited today, making its debut in Peoria, Illinois, on Peoria Sports Radio 101.1.m. Thanks to PD Scott Hecertron. Excited. Hecathorn. Sorry, my bad.

Can't read names. It's late eighth. This is three straight hour solo. Let's bring in Ryan Hollins to wrap up and finish strong. former NBA Center, former UCLA Great, and he hosts the NBA rookie life podcast on IHeart with the NBA. Ryan, how you doing, my man? What's up, brother?

Been too long, man. Ryan and I did some radio. I think pre-COVID out here in L.A. Always fun, good sparring. And, you know, the team here said, hey, Jason had a take that Yokic, who's dominating the finals, dominant in the playoffs, best player in the league, is as dominant in Shaq. And Ryan Holland said, And no, I got another answer for you.

Let's hear the center. Yokic is as dominating as Ryan Hollins. Well, no, as a center, I wasn't dominating at all. I just did my job. But is Nicola Yolkich dominant? That's not the word I would use. He's a playmaker. He's something we've never seen before.

He's our generations, Arvetus, Sabonis. Remember I said that, Jason. But the center, who was the most dominant since Shaquille O'Neill was Dwight Howard. Now, understand the word dominant is intriguing in the sense of there you're going to spend five fouls. Multiple guys are going to spend their five or six fouls on them. You're going to foul out. You got to grab, you got to hold them. You're going to blast through three guys.

You're going to fear them. Nobody fears Yokits, but you respect Yokin. You see what he does. But dominance is something different. She killed O'Neill is the most dominant player that ever played. And like I said, Dwight Howard was a guy you feared having to compete against. you knew you had to bring a level of physicality. You knew guys were getting signed on the roster just to guard Dwight Howard.

But Dwight Howard was no shack. Make no mistake. But I think Dwight Howard was the closest that we had to Shaquil in terms of dominance. Nobody fears Yokic. Did you actually just say that, Ryan Holland? Nobody fears Yolkis. He had 34, 21, and 13 against Anthony Davis in game one. And the Lakers were shook.

And they could never rebound from that. He punked Anthony Davis, who was cowards, number one. player in the playoffs through two rounds. Like, nobody fears Yokit. That might be your hottest take, Ryan. Keep that context. Keep the context of what I'm saying. I played the position.

So you respect him. He's going to put in work on you. You're going to take 30, 15, and 15. No disrespect. But getting an elbow in the mouth, like a physical fear I'm talking about. You know, Yolkin's just going to use his skill set. You're not getting elbowed in the back of your hand playing against Yolkin. So only from the physicality.

He plays the game of skill. He's something we've never seen before. And I think all NBA scouts are out running around trying to find the next Nicola Yolkis. Now, have me from our rockets, we got a guy by the name of Al-Pran Shengu, who's pretty darn special, pretty close to what he does. Okay? But everybody's looking for, hey, man, where's that next Yolkin chat? Okay, so fear in the terms of, hey, man, this guy going to inflict some actual harm to me.

Oh, geez. And that's a first Sengoon reference in the history of the show. I'm impressed. I'll let Colin know about it. I got to ask you, Devin Booker or Jamal Murray, I told you could have either one of those guys around on your team. Who you take it? Devin Booker, dog.

I'm going with Devin Booker. Do not be a prisoner of recency bias. Devin Booker has been a walking bucket skill set-wise. He's the closest thing as far as scoring over a contested hand that we have since by the name of Kobe Bryant. Jamal Murray is a dog. He can get it done off the bounce. He is box office.

He scores in big time. situations. He's Mr. Fourth Quarter, and I've been seeing it from this kid since he was 15 or 16 years old. Okay, he lit us up at the Pan American games before he was even a collegiate basketball players. So I believe in Jamal Murray, but I'm still going Devin Booker right there. Put some respect on Devin Booker's name, dog. Don't be the prisoner at a moment, man. Jamal Marie, one of the most clutch playoff performers we've seen in the last 10 years. I mean, he is unbelievable in the place. Never made an All-Star game. I don't know how that happens. up, Brian Hollins. How's this one? Eric Spolster calls you up. Brian, I love your announcing.

Don't know if you caught game one. We're in a bit of a pickle. We need some thoughts, some new ideas outside the box stuff. What do you got? How do we slow down Yokic? How do we slow down this Nuggets team? How do we win a game? Well, you slow down Nikola Yokic by speeding him up. You have to force him to defend. You have to force him to have to run bam out of bio or a smaller matchup off of the three point line. You have to make him chase guys around the perimeter. You got to go out and hunt him and you'll like this the same way that who, Steph Curry gets hunted. Okay, Steph Curry teams, when you want to beat the Warriors, you find Curry and you make him defend and you try to tire him out now. Yokech's his favor,

he's a big boy. He can sit in the paint, he can use his length, and he can defend the rim. But you have to make him a defender. That's the way that you somewhat slow him. down. And a lot of teams, unfortunately, that is their strategy. But when Denver struggles, it's when they don't defend it. When you make Yokich have to run around and you get the big fella tired. Interesting. I mean, Bam out of bio had a damn good game. It just didn't matter. You know, when Bam scores over 20, I think they were 6 and 0 in the playoffs. He scored like a career high in the playoffs, 26, and they got smacked. Is there anything they can do defensively besides making Yokic run when they're on offense?

You got to give him one thing. He can't have his cake and eat it too. So if he's going to go out and get 40 points, he can't have the 10 assists, okay? He can't have a cherry on top. You know what I'm saying? Or if he's going to be a passer, that means he's scoring under 10 points. And he's in a 20 assist range or he's getting hockey assists. You're getting the ball out of his hands.

You got to meet him early. You've got to do your work on him. So you can't give up both. He can't have 30 and 50s. It's got to be one or the other. and I think that's your best strategy right now because he's showing you he's disciplined enough and patient enough to beat you at both and then obviously now we see where Jamal Murray comes into being a problem because if you do shut down yoga, Jamal Murray has no problem stepping up and taking over.

He's got that clutch gene. Let's go to the Nick Nurse addition to the Sixers. Interesting press conference where they were pressing him about James Hardin. It didn't seem like exactly a love letter from Nick Nurse to James Harden to stay. You're in Houston where all the talk is James. Hardin could be coming back to Houston where he loves the city. He loves the nightlife. They let him be James. Ryan Hollins, today would your guess be that James Hardin returns, yes or no? I think James is going to do whatever he sees fit. And James is at that stage of his career.

It's about winning. It's about happiness. He's going to have to choose his path, ultimately, at the end of the day. I would be ecstatic if James came to Houston, and I have none but respect for him if he stays in Philly. I don't think we can read too far into a coach talking about a player in free agency. Listen, man, it is good problems to have if you're James Hard. Do I go back to Houston? Do I stay in Philly? Do I possibly see another situation where I can win a championship? Maybe it's in a Phoenix or somewhere like that.

Maybe it's in maybe Milwaukee. Yonis puts a phone call in and says, you know, Beard come here, man. Let's be those two guys who race for MVP and have a chance at a championship. But if you're James Harden, I think he's going to be welcome anywhere. and he still has a top 10 skill set, top five skill set, depends on any given night in the NBA. He showed you he can put up 45 in the playoffs. And I think for him, he's going to have to just value, do I want to be happy? Do I want to win?

Hey, teammate-wise, he's got rich people problems, Jason, like you. Rich people problems, man. The rich people are problems? Where do you want to go make millions of dollars, man? Last question, Ryan. Does James Harden fit on the current Houston roster? It's very young. He's not young.

does he fit there? I can't believe you asking me this, dog. I can't believe you're asking me this. Okay, so I want you to notice, James Hardin's playing style fits anywhere. If James Hardin wants to go out and get you 20 assists, James Harden can get 20 assists. If he wants to drop a 50 piece, a 50 burger,

he can go and do that. There's versatility in James Hardin's game, and I think that people think that you just see him, you know, shooting the step-back threes and scoring out a high clip that way, and that's just the only James Hardin. James Harden can give it to you any way you want it. It's like Burger King, baby.

You can have it your way. So I think if James didn't want to come back and mentor these young guys, he's more than capable of doing it, if he wants to go and play amongst other superstars and kind of take a backseat role and just be the distributor. He can do that. I think that James Harden can go and make his way anywhere in the NBA that he sees fit. So, man, put some respect on James Hardin. Don't ask me nothing like that again about Jay's Hard, man.

What's wrong with you, man? All right. Ryan Hollins, thanks for stopping by. I congrats on the new podcast through IHeart, NBA rookie life with Ryan Hollins. All right, coming up next, we will wrap up the show. Three hours done. Solo, baby. I can handle it.

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