The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - Nuggets vs Warriors game 2

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

NBA analyst Cuttino Mobley joins the show to tell Colin why he thinks the Lakers will even up their series against the Nuggets by winning game 2 tonight. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,

SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule. of two. Listen to Stuff to Bole Your Mind on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local

station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching Heard. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Here we go. live in Los Angeles. It's the hurt. Wherever you may be, however, you may be listening. Thanks for Megan S, part of your day. You and I had a great April.

We're off to an unbelievable May. Not going to get into it. We don't talk about show. We don't brag about the numbers? Nope, not going to be into it. So I want to throw this out, J-Mack. So we talked about this earlier. You apparently, I stay off it, but you apparently were getting a bunch of crap

for suggesting that Jimmy Butler's had a better career than Clay Thompson. Clay's got four finals. And the argument for it is Butler's the better player, obviously, but what do rings matter? And so it got us to thinking about 10 minutes ago, if I asked you today, you the consumer, who would you rather be Scotty Pippin or Charles Barkley? I'd rather be Barclay.

Barkley doesn't get the rings, but was such a great player in big personalities, making 20 million bucks a year talking basketball, making us all laugh at night. Pippin never gets the credit. Always underserved, almost marginalized. Phil Jackson, I mean, even when you watch the documentary, it was about Michael, Phil, Rodman, and a little bit of Scotty.

I mean, it was, Kerr and the punch played a big part. So he gets marginalized in those. then Scotty moved around, didn't have as much success. I'd rather be Barclay. Would you rather be, I guess, the football argument, harder to find a football argument. Wait, can I say something on Pippin real quick? So Michael Jordan quits basketball, and Scottie Pippen leads the Bulls to, I believe, 57 wins.

No, Jordan was 57 the year before Pippin was 55. 55. And they were still very good. That's really good. Scottie Pippen, nice job. He didn't win MVP of the league. Charles Barkley was an MVP of the league, meaning he was the best player in the Barkley was a much better player. But obviously a better player. And like, I get it.

Scotty Pippen has six rings, but this whole rings debate, I think you and I can probably be the voice of reason here and puncture it on some level. Just because you have four rings and you weren't the best player on the team, it doesn't mean you had the better career than a guy like Jimmy Butler. I'll stand by that forever. Now, the football argument, would you rather be Dan Marino, who's in everybody's top 10 list?

I mean, to be honest with you, until Mahomes arrived, he was in everybody's top five or six, or Big Ben, who's not as good, but he had a much, you know, he had great defenses, he had great run games with the boss, he had much more, he had a better components around him, won championships. But, I mean, the first championship he won with the Steelers, he was awful. I mean, let's be honest, they won despite him. He was a young quarterback. Okay, so what would you rather be? It's a tough one.

That one's a go either way because in football, winning is really everything. Whereas in basketball, it's not as much. There's a lot to be said about, I mean, Dr. J, his style is half his brand. When I think Dr. J, I don't think about rings. I think about his style. I mean, Dr. J was why I love basketball. And so we don't talk about Bill Russell. He's got 11 rings.

We talk more about Kareem. We talk about Shaq. We talk flair and style and the aesthetics and the power. We don't talk Bill Russell. I never haven't. I've been in this business 30 years. So in basketball, winning is really not the be all and all. I don't think.

I think it matters, but I would rather be Barkley than Pippin today. For instance, Kawhi Leonard, who was in the same draft as Jimmy Butler. Kauai Leonard, oh, everybody, he has two finals MVP's. He's obviously better than Jimmy Butler. Well, if you drill down a little bit, and we called it up, like, that finals where they crushed the heat at the end of the heat's run, 4-1, like, Kauai average 17 a game. Like, he wasn't otherworldly in that series. And he defended LeBron, but LeBron put up numbers.

I mean, prime example is, I mean, Kauai is a great example. He discombobulated, he got a title, but he discombobulated with the Spurs. He was a one-and-dunner with Toronto, and it's been a disaster. And by the way, that Toronto Championship, we need to be clear. Kevin Durant played like 11 minutes in the series. It is. Come on. I have nothing but respect for Toronto.

Yeah. It would be like playing George in the national championship and they missed seven starters. Like they literally, Clay was hurt, Steph was hurt, Kate, they fell apart. Golden State just, they literally ran out of usable parts. They were, Toronto would have lost the series. They were a massive dog. So let's be fair about it. But they got it and they deserve it and the fans are amazing.

Sure. That's great. But what is call, what is Kauai Leonard legacy today. Odd. Not available. Disruptive. Hard to coach. Hard to play with. What's Jimmy Butler's legacy today? The man. Tough. Tough. You know what's best. A tough you know what. Jimmy Butler is what all of us want our player to be. He's better. It's like Derek Jeter. His most memorable plays are in the World Series. It's against or the ALCS. It's against the Red Sox or the A's. It's. It's, whereas A-Rod is a great player, but doesn't have as many postseason memories. Who do you want to be?

I would say Jeter, where I'm known as, you know, so in baseball, I do think World Series greatness really defines Jeter's career. I would rather be, if you're asking me the career, I would, not the person, but I would rather take Jeter's career, less talented than A-Rod, but his moments in baseball or in the fall, are in the fall classic. So I love, whereas A-Rod's just a talent. But Barclay's kind of just a talent, Pippin's great memories of him in the final,

I'd rather be Barkley. Pippin did a lot of the gritty work, you know, defensively. Never got the love you deserved. Yeah, yeah, totally. So it's funny. So the point is, it's all different. In baseball, I would rather have those great Jeter highlights, jumping in the stands, ALCS, all this stuff,

over A-Rod's talent. In the NBA, I'd rather adjust, maybe because it's a Star League, I'd rather be Barkley the Star than Pipp and the title guy. So right? Like, so in football, Akeman or Marino, now I'd be Akeman. Because Akeman, I got three rings.

Akeman is tough. That's a super interesting one. His numbers, Akeman, obviously, Hall of Fame, great quarterback. He threw for more than 20 touchdowns once in his career. I know, but. Dan Marino, his numbers are staggering.

Dan Marino, MVP, finished third in the MVP voting. Like, it was undeniable that he was one of the best players in the league. Aikman had a awesome team. He was a very good quarterback, but he had one of the most loaded teams of that era. We go back to again. So in football, where I mostly care about winning, as great as Marino was, I would take Aikman's career. Okay. In basketball, as great as the winning is for Pippen, I'd take Barclay's career.

So I guess the point is, it depends on the culture and the sport. Like in soccer, which is star-driven, it doesn't matter if messy wins or not. take Messi's career over some guy that won three World Cups. You know what I mean? Like in soccer, I would rather be, I mean, Messi's going to make $300 million a year. So in basketball and soccer, because those are celebrity-driven, star-driven vehicles, sports, I'd rather be the star. In football, it's about winning.

I'd rather have the titles. I would rather be Aikman than Marino. I like winning. winning usually trumps everything. But in this scenario, like Jimmy Butler's story of, you know, he had to fax his college acceptance letter from a McDonald's because he didn't have like a fax machine. Like if you drill down and read some of the profiles,

Butler's story is incredible what he's overcome to become a superstar. Like, you know, Clay's dad played in the NBA, okay? You know, Clay Thompson was a very good prospect, went to, what, Washington State? Like, everybody knew he was going to be good. Butler, 30th pick. When he came into the NBA, he wasn't doing anything. What he has become, I think is part of his story and narrative that makes its son so unbelievable.

I think it's almost like the NBA and international soccer are star-driven platforms, right? So I'd rather be the star than collect Horry, Robert Orie, or Bill Russell rings. I'd rather be the star in basketball. Well, Bill Russell was a star on some of those rings. Yeah, no, he was. He was. That's true. That's fair. But in other, like in tech, would I rather be some of the basketball? somebody in tech that was not very good working well with others, but I started a company, got the bag, and then for the rest of my career, you know, I didn't work at companies,

got fired multiple times, but I started a company, got the bag, retired, or would you rather be a guy that worked at Apple, 35 years, did very well, part of a team, well, I'd rather be to get the bad guy. I'd rather be the maverick in tech because tech is a star-driven business, NBA, international soccer. Those are star, I'd rather be a Pele, I'd rather be a Ronaldo, I don't care about their world cups. Soccer diehards do, I don't care. But in basketball,

international soccer tech, there's an argument, just be a star. It will pay you the rest of your life. Your legacy will be impenetrable. Right? How some of these guys became a star, Janus, falls in the draft, he was a skinny kid.

Nobody thought, like when you draft Janus, you don't think this guy's going to win an MVP and be the player in the league. Yokic, we're seeing in the NBA, Collins, some of these underdog stories how they become stars and over, like, just overtake other guys who are massive stars. Think about it. You don't really see that as much in the NFL. I don't think. Pat Mahomes did fall to 10, and he's, you know, one of the great quarterbacks of all time, but like the stories in the movie, like Steph Curry when he was drafting, nobody on planet Earth said he's going to be a two-time MVP and win titles. Just to show you how much fight and will matters, think about guys who have

had recent playoff success. Yokic second round, Draymond second round, Janice, not a top pick, overlooked. Steph Curry went to Davidson, Jimmy Butler, 30th pick. There is something to...

The fight. Exactly. Because in the NBA, the referees tend to swallow a whistle, and it's an endurance test. It's seven games. First round, seven games. Second round, seven games.

Third round, seven games. Championship, seven games. It is a marathon. and tough and fight and will matters. And also, it's the only time we watch the NBA, if you look at the ratings, you get eaten alive on bad games. Do you have the strength above the shoulders to handle it? Or will you, remember the bubble year?

Like the Lakers were just the strongest mental team and they won. A lot of clippers fell apart. A lot of these teams could not take the COVID year, the bubble away from their families. That became a mental endurance test. And the Lakers, because of LeBron, were very strong above the shoulders. and they just Vogel, veteran coach, LeBron, A.D., they all got together and said, guys, I remember hearing the story about this, LeBron sat him down in the room and said, fellas, we can wilt or we can win the title. A lot of teams are wilting in this bubble. We can't wilt.

All right. By the way, just to finish up one thing, you know, remember Tatum when he came out of Duke, they lost in the second round. Coach K, I'll never forget, they lost a South Carolina brutal game. Remember that. All the talk ahead of the draft in 2017 was, So do you take Markell Fultz or Lanzo Ball? That was the talk of the draft.

Markele Fultz a highly touted recruit. Fultz goes one to the Sixers. Lanzo Ball goes second to the Lakers. And Jason Tatum, who has been by far better than those guys, falls third to Boston. Top two guys, I don't know Fultz's, I don't know what his career is going to be. Lanzo ball injuries galore.

Jason Tatum falls just a couple notches. Sometimes you don't want to be the number one pick. You don't want to be at the very top. The pressure, like you said, it gets to some of these guys, gets in their head. If they don't have that grit and toughness, it's tough to overcome. It's a lot, especially now that NBA guys, they come into the league at 19. Can you imagine at 19 being famous and rich? I would have been.

I just wasn't right. I was not ready for it now. Not really famous, but not. Oh, please. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays and New York. Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th.

You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clivered Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need. to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here. unpack what went down and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s.

To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

People. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, welcome back. We were getting into that earlier. Oh, it's Catino Mobley, former NBA player. A lot of good stuff. So we were, by the way, you played with Pippet and Charles Barkley. Pip Charles, Kim, Kim, Eliwan. So I said, in tech, an international soccer and basketball. ball. I'd rather be a star without titles. I'd rather be Barclay today than Pippin. In football, I'd rather be Aikman than Marino because football's just about winning. Okay, so you played with

Barclay and Pippin. Honestly, who was more fun to play with? Who was more fun? Scotty. Why? Because Scotty, what depends on what you mean by fun. What does that even mean? Explain your fun. Well, you explain it. What does it mean? I'm not an NBA player. What does it mean? fun when you're young is just like not even worried about what you're doing just go out there and have fun scotty because i wanted to learn so fast i picked them a ball at 13 yeah so because i wanted to learn from the greats i had to study and that to me was fun the hard part was fun getting up early was fun yeah but you're also a thinker exactly so barkley just want to go out and have a good time yeah like you don't care nothing about your body you know what i mean like come on

listen i love charles barclay he's one of my favorite people he always helped me, but Scotty was more strategic. He was more take care of your body. This is what we doing in the morning. Clyde Drexler is another guy that didn't practice terribly hard. Some guys, the more talent they have, the less they grind. Clyde was just naturally good at every single thing. Everything. Every single thing he did. He was natural. Nick Van Nex was like that. Just naturally. It's like the kid plays in Minnesota. Anthony Edwards. It's good at everything. Okay, so I like Jason Tatum. We had this argument,

earlier. There's a quarterback for Buffalo named Josh Allen. Yeah. And he and Tatum are both great and we love them both. But if you go to Jason Tatum and you go, he has these moments, no shots in the fourth, three turnovers 90 seconds. We love Josh Allen. He is all over the map in big spots. I think they'll both win a title. But I tend to believe you are what you are. So when he scored 51 in a blowout, I said, he's going to come back. That's not who he is. He is that occasionally. And my takeaway is you said something As you were walking on

My takeaway is your game is your game You are who you are Tatum has self-doubt It will follow him forever He may still win a title He'll still have great games But I think this is who he is Like Josh Allen

You'll be like, you're great The hell are you doing Tatum's great No shots in the fourth You played with guys Some guys, Barclay never changed Pippin never change. They may win less or more.

But when I watch Tatum, I'm like, I like him, but he's going to be like this. Am I crazy on that? You're not crazy at all. You know, the thing is I love Jason Tatum. I think he's one of the most talented guys in the league. But Jimmy Butler, when he came in, he had an edge. He was in Chicago with Tom Tibbet, all those guys. It was an edge.

Right? Minnesota. Edge. Philadelphia. Edge. Miami. Edge. Who he is? Your character is your character. is your character. Now, the only thing I would say that you can fix with Tatum, go to a hypnosis,

a sports psychologist, because, and Josh Allen, right, because I love football. I was a quarterback. So my thing is, it's something in your brain that's tricking you to say this is different than everything you do on a regular basis. Arod had this. Arod had postseason stuff. It's just, it's in your mind. It's in your mind. It's nothing to do with your talent. It's in your mind. And if you can't get that fixed, you're practicing a habit every single time. So the 51 points, is that you? That is you, but not when it's tough. You know what? A lot of the guys, Greg Norman, very successful business guy, Tatum, prep school Duke, very, very... Greg Norman, half and half, right? Well, I love him. No, I'm talking about the iced tea, wasn't he? Oh, no. That was

that not Greg Norman? Oh, was Arnold Palmer. I'm sorry. That's okay. You play tennis, not as much of him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, what I'm saying is A-Rod's a very bright guy, business guy, that a lot of times, it's paralysis by analysis. Some guys, and they're often bright guys, they get into their head. Not all bright guys do. And that's not saying less bright guys don't. But Tatum, I've seen this before, like A-Rod. It's like, go up and hit Jeter, smart guy, but Jeter's theory was, I remember him talking about this one time.

He had one of his rare slumps. He was like over 22, and somebody asked. him. What do you think about when you're in a slump and Jeter said, hit the ball hard somewhere? Derek never overthought the room. Arod would be like, well, I went to my therapist, and I've talked about the insight. He had the game so later. So to your point, I think Tatum sometimes overthinks. He does overthink, but I think that's a lot to how you grew up.

I talked about that two hours ago. It's literally how you grew up, and that's a part of your character trait. So whatever it is and how he grew up, maybe as I don't want to disappoint. I don't want to be as pushy because you can learn to be cocky. Like you can learn to be self-conscious. You can learn, all these things are learned traits of an individual, right? Becoming pure. And then we have the original state and we have our learned state in life.

Yeah, that's right. And he's learned so many different things while playing, whether his dad was really pushy, while his mom was his mom is super accomplished, right? So she wasn't a lazy person, right? His father was a attorney. Exactly. Then he at prep school. Exactly.

And if you watch him, he's a very thoughtful player. Yes. He wants to get everybody involved. Yes. To this point, Jimmy, been doubted his whole life. His family was turbulent. He's had to fight for everything he's earned. You can see it on the floor.

You see it on the floor, too, and also to what you see is Jimmy is, the reason why Jimmy is so amazing is that they understand who Jimmy is, that team, because Jimmy is Pat Riley. Jimmy is Eric Sposter. Jimmy will tear your head off. That's Jimmy. So now he's going to a family that says, oh, you're one of us. We got you. But I need you to do it this way and do this and do this.

And he's like, okay, as long as you believe in me, you won't kick me out, I got you. That's what I see when Jimmy. You're smart. That's why you're a quarterback. You were good behind this. You're probably audible and you're going a million ways. Okay. So tonight with the Lakers, it's funny. I watched the

second half and I'm like, you know, they kind of figured out Yokic. Then I look at Yokich's second half numbers. You still have 15 points. And Malone came out the other day. He said, what do you think nobody's ever changed the defenses up on Yokch? We've seen all of them. So when I look at the second half of the Lakers, I'm like, oh, they solve the riddle. And then I think, wait a minute. People have been trying to solve Yokich for five years. They can't solve him. So I'm overstating that. Who do you like the night and why? Listen, I love the Lakers. because I think defense wins games

and they have a great defensive team. I think we're misreading a lot of what happened the other day. The Joker is going to be the Joker, just like I said before about character, right? The Joker's going to be the Joker. But will the other players be who they are every single game? I don't know, especially on this defense. The Lakers, their mistake was

they brought the same concept from the Golden State series. Small. Small. And by the way, Memphis was small because Adams was out. Yes. And then they faced the Redwood Forest of the League. Exactly. Porter, Gordon, Yokic. Yes. You played with Akeem. So Akeem played for the greatest college team that never won a title. The Dream, the Fy Slamma Jammah. Five Slamajama.

Rob Williams, Akeem, Michael, Larry Mushu. I mean, it was. Mike Young. Was it Mike Young? Yeah, Mike Young. folks, YouTube it. That was a college team, it looks like an NBA team. Right.

Clyde's Wrexler? Dunks. Rob Williams was eventually in the mix somewhere. So, Akeem's game was a lot of pump fake. It was different.

Yokic reminds me of Arvita Sabonis. I think sometimes... That's a great one. Great passer. That's a great comparison. But is Yokic, when I watch him get up the floor,

is he maybe a little better athlete than anybody wants to admit. I'm watching him lead the break. You know, like the skill level you need to be seven foot, dribble the ball and make that passing? We just think, I was just a big guy and a body. I'm like, Bill Walton passed like that. Arvetus did. You can't be an average athlete and do that.

I mean, what do you make of it? Well, the thing is, it's like basketball's evolved, right? So you had from Elgin Baylor to Michael Thompson, to Julius Irvin, to Michael Jordan to Kobe, it evolves. So when someone sees someone, a baby sees someone do something, they're going to mimic the older sibling, right? So I think the Joker's like, okay, well, the passing Bill Walton, the passing Sabonis, the passing of Lottie DeVoc,

the passing these guys, okay, cool. So what else do I need to do? Wow, I love LeBron James. He passes and he runs fast. So all I'll have to do is, I don't have to run fast all the time, right? It can be a stick shift. I can put it on six sometimes. I don't have to be six all the time.

And I think that's what is with Joker. He doesn't have to dunk the ball even though he's seven feet. He doesn't have to run full speed every single time. He just does it when he needs to. And that's super smart to me. God, he is so skilled. He's so skilled. It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable how school. Now, that's why I say, well, oh, the Lakers found something. People say that's like, I don't really think so. It's the fourth quarter of a game that the Lakers were punching back at them. So if you think about it, after the first quarter, the Lakers won by six.

First quarter, what? Lakers were down 12. Denver won by six. That means the last three quarters, I don't care how it was fluctuating. The Lakers won that last three quarters by six. And the Lakers got caught flat-footed,

and basically Denver played a, I think it's the best quarter I've seen in the playoffs. The Lakers were catching up from the first quarter. I think the Joker didn't have enough energy in the fourth quarter. That's why it was what it was. So as much as Hachamora, he's a bigger body and he's quicker and he's this, it's like, you're talking about a two-time MVP.

Maybe he should have, I think he should have been three-time MVP three in a row. Yeah. Right? So you mean to tell me a fresh joker. What is? No, no. Now the other guys, I can see. Not to me, three-time MVP.

By the way, Victor Weminyama. most of the time, scouts, they were right on Tiger Woods, they were right on Shaq, they were right on LeBron, they were right on Serena Williams, they were right on John Elway. When they say this is a one-of-one, Bryce Harper, they're mostly right. Okay. I can remember Christian Pulisic when he was really young, people saying, watch this kid. Well, he's the best, most skilled player I've ever seen in American soccer history. Victor Wembenyama, I think the scouts are right.

I do wonder, though, with that body type, Sam Bowie, with that body type, Chet Holmgren, is it unrealistic if you're the Spurs to say, listen, you're young, you're going to play 60 games? I'm not a championship team. The first two years, you're going to play about 60 games. Because that was my take on Holmgren. These guys are not ready from 30, 40 games to 100. They're not ready. It's hard.

So how would you, the first year with Victor Wenbanyama, what would you surround him with, Coutino? I would surround him with, you know, it's different, right? So you have an amazing system in San Antonio. I think Greg Popovich, you know, there's Eric Sposso, there's Tyloo, you know, there's coaches, and there's Greg Popovich way up here, right? Motivating your players, getting them to be their best, he already has that. I think lifting, stretching, the smallest little thing, the smallest details in life,

there's a book Chopwood Carrey Warden talks about inches. You don't really have to take a long, long leap to get somewhere, right? I think inches and meaning like for him, stretching, yoga, those type of things to like really concentrate on your inner self for him. because it's going to be very stressful of being. The man. Yes, everybody wants to. I mean, honestly.

They're saying he's going to be the best ever. Do you know how hard that is? They can put pressure on the kid. Regardless if he's like trying to poo-poo it or not, it's still in his psyche. Sure. Right? So that's stress. That's a stress level.

And it can build up when you have games where you have a stretch of games where you have a stretch of games or four or five games or you have a losing seasons. Like who am I? You doubt. That's human to doubt yourself. I don't care what no one says, but some guys hold on to it longer than others. Michael Jordan didn't hold on too long. It might have split second.

Kobe split second, right? LeBron was even, at one point in time, LeBron may even think, should I shoot this one? Should I do this? Should I do that? It wasn't until LeBron's crisis moment was the Miami-Dallas finals, where he literally, for the first time in his life, looked scared to shoot. And LeBron talked about that. He was the villain of the league, and then LeBron in the off-season fixed his low post-game. That moment, LeBron bottomed out.

It was the worst two-week stretch of his career. It was awful, that final. And then all of a sudden, it's like LeBron came back and you're like, okay, this is the LeBron with a complete name. But also, too, it was a conversation. It was kind of like Jimmy Butler. It was a conversation that Dwayne Wade had, I would think this was what it was, that he said, listen, I'm your guy. This is your team. Lead us.

So when you have that confidence in the household, when you have that confidence in the gym, when you have their confidence on a field, look, success is built off confidence. I got to figure out a way how to build it within myself. And if I have other people saying you can do it while I'm trying to work hard, right? Because mistakes and discomfort will happen. But if I have not only myself keep fighting and other people pushing me towards it,

the fear will kind of like wash away quicker. Yeah. Catino Mobley. A lot of life lessons there, Jay Mack as a young guy. I hope you were listening to those. You could learn a lot. I love how he thinks I'm young. But yeah, I've known Coutino for a while. We did some radio together.

Had him on my podcast. Great guy. Love his takes. Except to James Harden ones. All right. So should I... Let's go to J-Mack. Jay-Mack with the news.

No. Turn on the news. This is the Herd-Line News. Nuggets Lakers game two tonight. Kattino, did you get a pick, by the way? Did I get what? A pick for Lakers Nuggets tonight. I'm Lakers.

All day. I'm Lakers in the points. I'm going to go Lakers by two points. But why are your face like that, though, Jay? I'm stunned. You're picking the Lakers to win outright? Well, why not? You said tonight.

Yeah. Anthony Davis played 42 minutes the other night. I had 40 points. They lost. You think he's coming back with a big night? Yeah, I do. Wow. You do two?

Yes, big time. At the altitude. Cowell, okay. We're on opposite sides. I have Denver and a close one. The semantics. The altitude. They got three.

They're both playing in the mountains. What are you doing? Denver's been doing it all. year. Yeah, okay. Wow. It takes you about two days. I know I'm going to the mountains on Friday.

It takes you about two days to adjust. Do you go skis? No, I'm going to hang out. But I do go skiing. Okay. Up in Utah. But it takes you about 36 hours to adjust. Lakers are now adjusted.

We'll see how Darvinham adjusts. Coach Michael Malone said this about the Lakers' defensive strategy involving Rui Hachimura. Much is being made of them putting Rui Hachamora on Nicole Yokic, like we've never seen that before. It's this kind of discussion being based at, like, even though the Lakers lost, you know, they're walking out of here last night, like, they think they've got something. I'll bet you, every red penny I have, that Darwin Hand would rather be up 1-0 than down 1-0.

So for us to be able to watch film after a win and show all the things that we did poorly is a great situation to be in. That's funny. I like this, Michael Malone. That was funny. I bet I, yeah, like we've never had anything thrown at us before. What is a red penny? I didn't know that was, is that a thing?

She said, I'll bet every red penny. I've never heard that. Well, I mean, a penny saved as a penny earned, isn't that something? That's not red, though. It's not red. Anthony Davis, over under 25 and a half points. I bet the under. I'll bet the over.

You like just going head to head here on the show. I always have 80s back. You wanted to trade him for you? half the season. Coward. What, that's just comical. All right, next up. Bucks in the process of replacing Mike Boodenholzer. They had an interview with

University of Houston coach Kelvin Samson. I saw that. It's interesting. Interesting. And they're going to interview former Lakers coach who has won a title, Frank Vogel. That is... Frank Vogel's a defensive guy. He won a title with the Lakers.

He did. I like Frank Vogel. First of all, no sport fires more good coaches than the NBA. So, I mean, who cares if he get fired? It's like, honestly, it's like getting fired in radio. Howard Stern got fired. Everybody gets fired. Give me a name Janice wants off that list.

Kenny Atkinson, I think Kenny Atkinson's really good. The people that I trust in the league, they love Kenny Atkinson. I think Nick Nurse is smart. I'd love to see JJ Reddick coach. I think Vogel can coach. Monty Williams can coach. It's one of those things. Belich got let go, and so did Andy Reid.

We got to get over the coach getting fired thing. Nick Saban got run out. Some jobs, pro sports, you're just, you're hired. Belichick, Andy Reid, Nick Saban. I mean, it's just the way the sport works. You've been in radio and TV. You've been shoved off stuff. Howard Stern's the best radio guy arguably ever.

He got whacked. What does it mean? He doesn't mean anything. He makes more a year now than any radio station in America's arguably worth. I mean, seriously. So what is it? Who cares? All right.

Let's wrap up with the N. NFL, this is a team we're wildly disagreeing on the L.A. Rams, awful season last year after the Super Bowl. They went five and 12. You people are nuts. So Rams tight end, Tyler Higby. He's good. He's good. Says, really? Yes. Yes. Says everyone is eager to return to form. Here's Tyler Higby. I think everybody in this organization, you know, feels a little bit of chip-in-shoulder the way last season went. You know, we have had so much success around here in the last handful of years.

and it's not like it was last year, I should say. But again, like I said, every year is a new year. So you try to bring that mindset. Not necessarily washing it. You remember what happened, learn from those things that did happen, and then just try to make it a new year, and it's completely separate from last year. Okay, time out.

Did you see that hat that he was wearing? It's the defensive end who sacks and then does the gyrations and gets flags for that? Yeah. That's a cool hat. Anyways, continue. So is Matt Stafford, do you remember the Super Bowl year when he threw for over 50 touchdowns?

Is Aaron Donald good? Is Cooper Cup, who set the record for the greatest season? Does everybody get they're going to bring back three elite players? And that what happened last year is, in a tough division, their offensive line literally fell apart, and they addressed it in the draft. Well, they did, but their offensive line's not like a good unit. By the way, you don't have to have a great offensive line.

Cincinnati got to a Super Bowl with a battle line. Who says you have to have a bad line back. You can have a bad linebacking core and win the Super Bowl. Will the Rams, how many of the first three games are they winning? Open up at Seattle. Not an easy place to play. Win. Next one.

Versus San Francisco. I don't know who their quarterback is. Oh, my God. Win. All right. What's the third one? At Cincinnati Monday Night Football. Loss.

Okay. Then what's next? Well, after that's indie, should be a win. Win. Next. Versus Philadelphia. Loss. Three and two.

Versus Arizona. Win, four and two. Pittsburgh. Where, where, where? Versus Pittsburgh. It doesn't matter. Well, yes, it does matter. It's out here at so far.

Okay, win. At Dallas at Green Bay. Lost win. So you're thinking there are about 500. There's a scenario, Colin, where they lose like six of those games before the buy. You start to wonder if they're going to be a seller heading into the second half of the season. Cellar of what? Talent.

You tell me they don't have any. You just said they've got Cooper Cup and Aaron Donald and Matt Stafford. They're not getting rid of Stafford. They're not getting rid of Cooper Cup or Donald. Why did they draft Stetson Bennett? Because they want to give Matt Stafford in the offseason in camp. They don't want him throwing 200 passes a day. They want to keep that soup bone limber.

Soup bone? That's how the people inside the industry talk. The people that are very connected. All the scouts, we call it. He's working the soup bone there at practice. You guys, I'm going to tell you right now. This is the best over bet. Really?

It's really good. By the way, the Vic Tafer guy, brilliant. Vic Tafer guy. You wouldn't know him if he delivered a pizza to the studio right now. You would have no idea who he is. But let me hear what he had to say on the Rams. Okay. Vic Tafer, highly respected.

A lot of people in the industry know who Vic Tafer is. I do. Hold on. Just one second. I've never met him. Hold on. I haven't met him either, but that doesn't mean anything. Nice individual.

I haven't met a lot of people. Hold on. Okay. It's one of his favorite vets. Hold on. Rividing television Okay, just hold on a second Cowherty is shuffling through papers

I don't know where it is I don't know where it is He's got the Rams over I know I know it So you and him So you too have the Rams over Yeah, I'll just smash the under

I know he does for sure I don't know what I did with my paper here He does have the Rams over They finish He does Listen by the way You're sleeping on the New Orleans Saints I spent some time looking into that team this year

This week actually By the way I love the New Orleans Saints I know you don't like coach Dennis Allen. Oh, here it is. Here it is. Vic Tafers says, The days of adding expensive veterans and winning playoff games are over.

Came crashing down. Now 37-year-old Sean McVeigh, who was a little burned out, can have some fun with a new start. Rams are expected to have more than 25 rookies at training camp. He still has Stafford, Cup, and Aaron Donald, the baddest man in the league. Motivated after only having five sacks last year, in 59 the previous four. A motivated football team full of high-end stars and the brilliant Sean McVeigh

over six and a half wins. I'm going to ask you just a couple questions real quick before we wrap up. Okay. Is this player a starter on the Rams defense or does he work at Target? Russ Yeast. He's a starter at safety. Oh, my gosh. Go again.

Go again. I've never heard of him. Go again. Christian Rose. boom. He is a starter inside linebacker. Oh my gosh. Michael Hoeked?

H-O-E-C-H-T. Edge. Damian Smithsonian. Time out, time out, time out. Oh, Damien Smithsonian. I made up that name. Yeah, I was going to say that. There's a Tomlunson, a rookie. Kobe Durant.

He's a corner. He's an excellent young player. I can't believe you know these guys. I know every one of them. I don't know any of those names, Colin. 25 rookies? You're going to start five rookies on defense? and Babe Ruth over here, a 72-mile-an-hour fastball. I can't believe. I just said Damien-Smithsonian. I was trying to make up the name.

They have a kid named Tomlinson they drafted from TCU. He's a five, like eight and a half small nickel back. He's good. I know their whole roster. Jeez, Traveas Hodges Tomlinson. Yes, he's a really interesting player. Were you hanging out with less need? Is that who your NFL sources are?

Okay, I got you. He's just going down the depth chart. Start or backup. Give me any player. Give me just try to do it again. You tried to be funny, and I swatted you away like. like a weak serve. Come on.

All right. Sean Joseph. Gunner special teams. Made up name. His real name is Sean Jolly. He's a third stink. Come on. I got to make up names.

Okay. Give me one more. A real name. All right. Is he a starter or backup? Ernest Jones. He's a great inside linebacker. Geez, wow.

He's good. I'm not going to lie. I'm impressed. You know random guys on the Rams and nobody knows. You can do that with every roster in the league. Oh, stop it. light switch never flips off. Okay.

J. Mack, win the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. That was fascinating television. Let's go through the Rams depth chart. Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, I'm Doug Gottlie.

The podcast is called All Ball. We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's more about the stories about what made these people love their sports. and all the interesting interactions along the way. We talk to coaches, we talk to players, we tell you stories. You download it, you listen to it, I think you like it. Listen to All Ball with Doug Alib on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast. Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care where you're saying. Yep, that's me.

Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space. For honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-taped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill?

Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack.

so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Well, here's something we've been talking about for years. Alex Smith on XM. Serious. We've been talking about how Belichick, he just doesn't, quite get offense is that he's beating up on Mac Jones. And it's okay to beat up on Tom Brady, who became a legend to bring him down a little bit, but you first have to build up Tom Brady's confidence before he's Tom Brady. And Mac Jones is still trying to figure this league out and never a compliment. He's not our, you know, you never get this. Mac is the guy. Then they make the DC, the O.C. And it's like, Bill, you're being tone deaf. Help the kid. These young

quarterbacks need support systems, and Alex Smith was talking about the difference between defensive coaches and offensive coaches. There is a different mentality for my career. When you play for an offensive head coach that wants to light up the scoreboard and outscore the opponent, there's a different mentality you have, especially as a young quarterback versus a defensive head coach when really the mentality is, hey, don't screw up, don't turn the ball over, don't put us in a bad situation. That's a huge difference in a mentality and a mind. set for a young quarterback, especially if it's a bit rocky to start. I feel like defensive coaches are bakers. Offensive coaches are chefs.

The difference is a baker follows directions, not that creative. You follow directions. A chef, it's all taste and feel, more salt, more butter. As you go, you keep tasting the soup. you keep tasting the and I think offensive coaches you know they're chefs and I think there's a lot of touch and feel to handling an offense and especially a young quarterback

and the defensive coaches don't get it six of the last eight Super Bowl champs are offensive coaches the exceptions Belichick twice with Brady Brady left the offense is a disaster so I think as the league has moved to offense with the rules I think defensive coaches I mean Pete Carroll struggled with Russell Wilson Pete, Pete's had a lot of good teams.

He won only at USC when he had a great quarterback Matt Liner. It was a great college quarterback. He won only with Russell Wilson. And Pete is a great coach who's won a ton of games. Wednesday won titles when he had a great college quarterback, when he had a great, Gino Smith's not winning a Super Bowl. You're not winning the Super Bowl with Gino. And you can win games, but I think defensive coaches, like what's Washington doing with Sam Howell?

They don't have any urgency. What are they doing in Chicago last year? Go get receivers in the middle of a season. You can't win with the young quarterback. I mean, they're just too late in the old line. Now, year three you go in, now Chicago, I think, they got some pieces. But I think offensive coaches have a better feel with young quarterbacks. And Alex Smith, we've been talking about this for years is right.

Hey, go to tankless made simple. Navian tankless water heaters, 15-year warranty. We'll see you tomorrow. It's the herd. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two.

Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast Guaranteed Human