The Herd with Colin Cowherd - THE HERD - Hour 3 - Robert Mays from The Athletic stops by The Herd

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

Colin talks to Robert Mays from The Athletic about how fast HC Ben Johnson has turned around the Chicago Bears, Josh Allen possibly needing a new head coach to get him and the Buffalo Bills over the hump, Bo Nix working well with Sean Payton, and more!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people.

Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The HARD podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern, 9 a.m. to noon Pacific. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day in the Iheart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.

You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. He holds a podcast every day. The Athletic Football Show, his name is Robert. May's Chicago-based, and he was so good last time. We're like, all right, let's just re-book him. It's like the restaurant you like. Just bring it back. Let's go again. So I said earlier today, I said, what Ben Johnson essentially did, he just got rid of the ridiculous. They can now score in the first quarter. They don't lose on Hail Mary's.

The clock doesn't run out. They run the ball and don't turn it over. It's not wizardry. It to me last night and the week before was like, you know, the giveaway takeaway thing they figured out a little bit and it's just fundamentally more sound football. It's not Andy Reed play design to me. What do you see? I think there's some of that coming. What's more encouraging to me is that when you watch the offense last year under Shane Waldron, none of it made sense. The ways that they were using the individual skill position players is the best example of this. They're using Keenan Allen on vertical routes and they're using Roma Dunzee and all these change of direction ways. It's like, what is your personnel do well and just put them in those

positions. And so they've checked that box. The run game structure looks good. I think some of the details have been off over the first month, all the penalties, the fact that you're missing like little assignments here and there. But the overall plan feels like it's well conceived. Yes, you feel the plan and you can understand what they're trying to accomplish. There's intention behind it. And that for somebody who watches this team every week for a long time, it's a nice change of base. Yeah, no, we said when your son's been getting D's, you're not going to argue over a B minus. I thought it was kind of a B-minus performance. I think that's right.

And I was joking with a friend earlier this week. All I want us to be like the 16th best offense in the league. I don't understand why that's a huge ask. Like I feel like it's a reasonable thing to want, and it seems like we're trending in that direction. Yeah. You know, Caleb's funny. Like he's got relationships are hard.

You know, like Harbaugh and Herbert was easy. Because Justin's like the nicest kid ever. It's egos. and Jim as he's age is almost parental. But Ben is young and ascending, and this is his first big job, and Caleb had a bad rookie year. I'm going to argue this is not as easy as we all think it is between coach and star quarterback.

I think that's right. I mean, the word that was used to me when I was there at House Hall before the season, and I was asking about their relationship, there was one word that somebody said to me, it's intense. It is intense between them, but not in a bad way. Intense where you feel growth,

where the tension can be healthy. And I think after his rookie year, Caleb needed that. He needed a little bit more structure. He needed somebody to push him. And by all accounts, that's exactly what it has felt like so far. And I think you're starting to see the returns on that. So I used the example earlier of Mark Jackson and Steve Kerr. Mark Jackson was more than capable.

They were winning games. But you had this transformational talent in Steph Curry, and you needed this ecosystem that was kind of impenetrable, that was unique. Draymond was, small ball became a, the thing. You had Clay Thompson, and all of a sudden you look up, and they weren't maybe as good initially defensively, but it did

make sense. In a division now was Sean Payton, and then Andy Reed, and then Mike Vrable is gaining on you. And Jim Harbaugh. They're iconic guys in the East, and I kind of look at Sean McDermott as a really great

supervisor that's not crazy creative. And I wonder I wonder if Josh Allen now has a little self-doubt, losing to Young New England, losing to Atlanta. I mean, Michael Pennix looked really comfortable last night, doing kind of whatever he wanted to. I don't know. I mean, do you think, did Josh and McDermott get along really well? I think that my biggest frustration with the bills right now is that there was a version of the bills when Josh Allen was ascending.

They were very specific on offense. They were very spread out. college concepts. The run game was very bad. And at a certain point, I think that fed into Josh's worst impulses. There was no calming force on offense. And when Joe Brady took over, they developed this really downhill run game that they could rely on. And now they have this flexibility where if we need to throw the ball 40 times, we can't. If we need to run the ball 40 times, we can't. That evolution has not happened on defense. All they're doing now is they're tinkering within the same world in which they've always existed. And I think that's where you're seeing some of the limitations. And ultimately,

that does fall on the coach. This on that side of the ball is his vision. They can't stop the run. They can't because of the way they're built. If you look at the types of players that they prioritize in the back seven, it's undersized guys who move well and are smart, right? They're trying to recreate Micahide and Jordan Poirer in the back end because they want to do all this disguise,

and they still disguise coverages more than any team in the league. Well, all offenses are doing is saying, you can do all that funky stuff on the back end you want to. We're going to bludgeon you up front this and. entire game. And it's so funny that the bill's offense figured that out. We're going to be the dominant. We're going to be the enforcers now. The bill's defense has never gotten there, and I think you're seeing how that's holding them back right now. So I was saying, Sean Payton texted me over the last year about Boe Nix and it was a good fit. And it's got

a Drew Brees composition to it, right? But Boe's not a great deep ball thrower so far. And Mims, Franklin, and Sutton can all be deep ballroom. receivers. And Bo misses it badly. And Sean likes that. He wants that. I also don't think he wants to run Bo Necks that much because, you know, most coaches don't. It feels like to me this roster is really stacked. It's got a lot of long, twitchy athletes, and they just, it's all underneath stuff. Like it feels to me that Sean body language last week in London, felt frustrated to me. Sean looked frustrated. It's interesting that you talk to him because when he has talked about Bo Nix over the last year, anybody who will listen, it seems like he's willing to tell them,

I believe in this guy. Like, I think this guy can be a winning quarterback. But then you watch how they approached the offense last week on third and four, third and five, these really high leverage moments, and it's all screens all the time. And so he's saying one thing, and then the construction and the decision-making

says another thing about the quarterback. And so I wonder how much does he actually believe in him if he's not going to let him drop back to pass on third and seven in the biggest moments of a game. Yeah, it's, I like Denver's roster. I think it's fantastic. Undeniably. I mean, the defense top to bottom might be the best in the league. The offensive line is great. I think you're seeing some of the limitations that Bo had last year continue to crop up again this year.

And it's a little bit disappointing. You'd hope that there would be some gains in those areas. But some of the stuff that's holding them back now is some of the same. stuff that was holding them back in 2024. Want more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeard radio app.

Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Hi, this is Jay. I'm the producer of the Pauli and Tony Fuscoe show. Usually in these promos, they ask you to listen to the show. I'm here to ask you, please don't listen to this show. The host are two absolute morons

who have the dumbest takes on sports imaginable. Don't listen to this show so it can get canceled. Whoa, whoa, what the hell are you doing in our studio? Get him, Paulie! Ignore that fool. Listen to the Paul and Tony Fusco show on the IHart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. He's still moving. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what?

We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas? guys. I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it and... Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early

names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas.

Jonas and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson,

we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball, like, After you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Keith Giamonka seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad. But secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

That is not the look. of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is. Getting a racist statue removed.

And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is. getting a new one put up in its place. As long as there's a politics of race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembering the Civil War. To get to school, I had to go down Robert Ely Boulevard. Get to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're an historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job.

I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space. We are more than our bodies. We contain essence. We contain spirit. How do you represent that?

They are just fueling a fire that is really catching. You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I have defended Aaron Rogers not much over the last seven or eight years. I can remember years ago not liking his body length. I pointed out years ago, he has very few come from behind wins, considering how great he is, fewer than Derek Carr, Andy Dalton. Some of that is, his kind of body language changes if he has an early pick.

He's a little bit more of a Baylor than a baller in big spots, but he's gifted. I actually love this, Aaron. So the Steelers have like an NBA front line. I mean, Washington, Friermouth, D.K. Metcalfe. Like, if there was a loose ball, they're getting the rebound. And I think he's my take on Robert May's joining us for the radio audience My take on it is Aaron is looking at this

And like we're not small and twitchy That's not what we are We're going to win one-on-one matchups We're so damn big And he's not throwing it deep And he's getting crushed by the PFFs But when I watch them play His risks are well thought out

It's beautiful back shoulders Three to four times a game I know I'm being told He's not rating well But it looks looks like the right play to me. What am I missing? I think you're missing the limitations down the road.

That's what I would be most concerned about. The way that he's approaching some of these games, the Minnesota one is a perfect example. Against that Vikings defense, it's going to bring a lot of heat at you. They play a lot of very soft zone coverage. If you're getting the ball out very quickly, that's the way to attack them. But I think ultimately, these guys who have super, super low time to throws,

Joe Burrow comes to mind. The best version of Joe Burrow that we've ever seen was the Joe Burrow we saw last year, when he started creating a little bit more deeper into the play. You saw some of the pocket movement. Eventually, you're going to need to do that against the best defenses in the league. You can't just hunt these matchups

and get rid of the ball in two and a half seconds. It's what he's doing right now. It's exactly what he's doing right now. And that's what he wants to do. If you look back at it last year, he had a very low time to throw. When he's got a slot fade to Devante Adams or a one-on-one slanted here at Wilson,

he does that very, very well. He can still pin the ball on guys. But ultimately, when you're playing against the Broncos defense on divisional weekend, you're going to need to restuff out and access different parts of the play than whatever your first immediate one-on-one opportunity is. And I still don't think we've seen him do that enough over the last couple years. Yeah, and Hasselbeck came on the show yesterday, Matt, and he's like, let me tell you, when the first number's four, you want to get rid of the ball quickly.

You've taken so many hits. He goes, I think it's subconscious. You just want the ball out. And I kind of defend him based on his history. how many times he's been hit. That's absolutely what I've seen over the last couple years. And I think now he's been able to exist in this box and it's been okay. If you push him outside of that, I think that's where things get a little bit dicey.

Because I totally agree with Matt. I think you can feel him not wanting to sit in the pocket very long and read stuff out a little bit deeper into these plays. So Baker won a playoff game in Cleveland. Stefanski didn't like some of the personality. He was a bit of a fire starter. And so they moved on. It's a mistake now with Baker.

But Baker was never terrible. Donald was. Sam Darnold was regrettable. And so he goes to Minnesota and a lot of the compliments was, well, Justin Jefferson and Kevin O'Connell. I don't know. Did Seattle, are they surprised Sam's been this good? Because I think a lot of people felt like, okay, that was a bit of an outlier. Are you surprised? Do you think Seattle is, he's the number one graded quarterback. Now, there's a guy that will throw the ball down the field in Donald. Are you surprised? I'm surprised it's been this good. He had flashes last year, but I think the combination of the lack of mistakes plus all the high-end plays, we've never seen that version of Sam Darnold before, turnover-worthy plays, the amount of sacks that he's taking, all of that stuff, the volume has been turned all the way down, and you're still getting the high-end stuff. And so I had a conversation with Sam last summer that was illuminating to me, just about the ways that he was seeing the game a little bit deeper in his career.

And I think when he was in San Francisco, and he finally was in an offensive system, where the intention of what they were trying to accomplish was, articulated to him. Why are you doing this as a quarterback? Why should you be seeing it this way? I think that's carried over over the last couple years. And it's funny we've seen this with Baker, with Sam, with Gino to an extent, Daniel Jones, these guys with their second act that have made the most of it. You see this convergence of physical talent and mental maturity. And that happens for quarterbacks at 27, 28 years old. Yeah, exactly. And I think with so many athletes we think, oh, they're peaking at 23. That's what they're going to be. Quarterbacks aren't like that.

Your prime comes in your late 20s. And so for somebody as talented as Sam Darnold, he needed another opportunity to make good on it, but that convergence of those two things, I don't think is more pronounced for any player in the league than it has been for Sam. So I like Drake May out of college. I loved Vrabel as a coach.

They were my pick to double the win total, and some of it was because I thought Miami and the Jets were fairly lifeless, hapless. Drake May is better faster than I thought. Right? Like what the coverage is? I mean, he had a really bad pick

in the end zone against Pittsburgh and you're like, okay, that's just, it's okay. I defended him when they lost to the Raiders. Robert, I said, okay, they've got nine new free agent starters, six brookies, like, this is like an NIL portal

gone wrong in college. They got way too many guys second, third, fourth week. So I kind of gave them a pass. saying be patient. I didn't think he was this good. Like I thought, I'm not sure I ever thought 75% completion percentage. Like, let's explain it. I think that's a really good way to look at it. To me, it's a combination of three things. Lack of mistakes, like truly boneheaded mistakes. You just picked out one. That's about all there's been. You know, there just haven't been that many.

In college and even as a rookie, there are more of those flubs mentally for him than I think you want to see. And he's really, really toned that down. And then there's a combination of high floor plays and high ceiling plays. What he can do with his legs and as a scrambler, all the easy completions that he's taking, that's so encouraging and exciting to me is that those completions that are there underneath, checking the ball down, he's doing all of that stuff at a really competent level early on, and he is so talented and so aggressive, the high-end stuff is going to come. That was never a question. It was all about the steady aspects of his play in the offense, and I think you're seeing all that stuff come together at the exact same time, and I'm 100%

with you. He has been so much better. so much faster than even the most optimistic Drake-made believers probably would have thought. Yeah, the, you know, we can end it on this and chew on this a little bit. Maybe because I like Brian Davel, so even when the Giants came into this season, I wasn't sure about the GM, Shane, but I like Brian, I like their left tackle when healthy, neighbors, scataboo, I thought would be interesting, and their defensive fronts, excellent. The Jets have players And there is a Freddie Kitchens aspect

To Aaron Glenn where I'm like, wow, nothing's good And I do wonder because You know, the Jets will tell people privately Who criticize them on Sala We gave him multiple years I mean, the Aaron thing is I mean if I was a college quarterback And the Jets had the number one pick

Like I think that if I got the right NIL number I may stay with my college program. What's too soon to pull the plug with the jets? Like, Robert, nothing works. The play calling was weird. It feels Freddie Kitchens where he may be a good play caller. Some guys are just vice presidents. That is fine.

I mean, what's happening there? It's so strange. The offense, I think we all could predict that they might have struggled this year, right? Justin Fields has been an afterthought quarterback. He's been a backup quarterback. We're not going to see this resurgence with all these guys getting another opportunity. The passing game with him and the receivers that they have on that

roster was always going to be limited. And I think we've realized those limitations. What's most discouraging to me is the fact that their defense too often over the first six games has just looked lost. Like you look at what some of their second and third level defenders are doing in space, their eyes against the run, these things that should be the strongest parts of your team with a defensive-minded head coach. Coaching to me is simple in the NFL. I think we base coaching, we evaluate them, are you getting the most out of your players? What you're supposed to be good at, are you good at those things? Are you getting returns on those things?

And for the Jets specifically, that hasn't happened on defense, and I think that's where it gets really worrying. Yeah, let's circle back one to the Bears. I think it was interesting last night. They put a stat up. The Bears scored 27 first quarter points, and they're at 37 now. It's remarkable. Now, they did get Drew Dalman, they got Tunney, Jonah Jackson. They were going to be better.

and it is interesting that the cohesion on the O line takes time because starters don't play in the preseason. So it was pretty rough the first two weeks. You could see the dominance on the O line last night. And you start looking at their schedule and they're three and two. Of course, again, they could be two and three or one and four. I mean, the Raiders game, it's a block kick. But they're getting better by the week. I looked at their offensive skill people.

And the whole lineup, Drew Dalman's elite, two and he's. elite. Dundee's a nice young player. DJ Moore's talented. DeAndre Swift's always been capable. Tight ends are at least average. I don't know. If the coaching, I'll say this.

I felt the Bears last night. I thought skill and coaching, they can match up with everybody except the Chiefs. And is that just hyperbolic and nonsense? I actually like their personnel and offense a lot. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. And I think you're starting to see it come together.

I think their buy came at the exact right moment. When you look at the way they handled training camp, it wasn't just that the guys didn't play in the preseason. They're swapping out left tackles the entire way through training camp. They didn't know who the left tackle was going to be until the season started. And so now they settle in with Theo Bennett at left tackle. And the way that they handled installing the offense in camp, they said this openly. They threw everything at all of those guys.

We're going to figure out over this month, what are we good at and what are we not. And that leaves you not a lot of time to hone the things that you're good at. And so thereby coming five weeks into the season is perfect, because you get to take a step back, you get to take a breath and say, okay, now that we have all this information, let's start to really zero in on the stuff we can be good at with the line that we feel comfortable with. We're darn all right getting back. Now you're starting to see that process. I think that now they're really starting to fine tune things they couldn't fine tune in August. I watched the bills last night. Rice is coming back and I watched the explosive chiefs on Sunday and my take is,

you're wasting Josh Allen's years. I don't care if it's Calvin Ridley. I don't know if it's DJ Moore. Trade deadline. Doesn't Buffalo have to do something on the perimeter? I honestly think they could do something on the perimeter on the other side of the ball. Like I think corner and defensive back and just, I would be more interested in beefing up the defense than I think I would be with the past catchers.

Because for the most part, I think that Josh is. Josh Allen and a good offensive line is a route to an elite offense. I think they'll get there on that side of the ball. I'd be looking at my defensive personnel, whether it's safety, linebacker, and just the lack of size, physicality that they have. If I was Brandon Bean, I think that is what would be keeping me up at night right now. Robert Mays, the Athletic Football Show, great podcast, do it every day,

so it's consistent. Really appreciate you stopping by. Anytime, really appreciate it. Thank you. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend.

But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad,

Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen.

We don't care where you hear it. What's up fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying.

He running up the court licking his fingers while he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keith Giamanka seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way.

out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No. I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place.

As long as there's a politics of race in America, there's going to be a politics of remembrance remembering the Civil War. To get to school, I had to go down Robert Lee Boulevard. Get to the grocery store. I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're an historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job. I'm Akila Hughes. In Rebel Spirit, season two goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space. We are more than our bodies. We contain essence. We contain spirit. you represent that? They are just fueling a fire that is really catching. You'll see what I mean.

Listen to Rebel Spirit season two on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, J-Mack. We got a lot to talk about before this baby ends. J-Mack with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the Herd Line News. All right, let's start with this Bill Belichick drama in Chapel Hill, Colin. Obviously, last week was a rough one. a lot of reports that maybe he was going to leave, be one and done. Well, Belichick spoke to everybody yesterday. Here he is at the podium talking about it. Some of the reports out last week about my looking for a buyout, trying to leave here and all that.

It's categorically false. There's zero truth to any of that. Glad I'm here. We're working towards, you know, our goals. It's a learning curve. We're all on it together. But we're making a lot of progress. and the process will eventually produce the results of wanting to produce like they have everywhere else I've been.

Oh, well, Jeff, by the way, did Jordan approve that outfit at the podium? He, for the first time at UNC, kind of looked like an old frumpy guy, hair a little disheveled. This was a throwback to the Patriots, right? He's wearing like a Carolina gray sweatshirt. He looked kind of old there, Colin. Well, he is, and that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, He didn't have a makeup artist, so sometimes it gets a little choppy

when you get up into your 70s. He's dating a 24-year-old. He's got to look a little better than that. I'm wondering if this pressure is getting to him, Colin. A lot of shots at his boy, Mike Labardi, who you and I know, I don't want to text Labardi now. He's going through it. But it feels like things are dicey.

Is it the calm before the storm? There was a storm last week. Now it's calm. You know, whoever they're playing this week, nobody cares because it's USC. I think he'll get through the season. We'll see what plays out. Ooh, that's a hot take.

That's as much as I'll commit to. Okay. Let's move on to the Dallas Cowboys. One of the most famous owners in the NFL, Jerry Jones, ducked the media very cowardly after the loss to Carolina. And all of a sudden, the discussion shifts from Jerry to Matt Eberfluse, the embattled defensive coordinator. You know him well.

Here's what Jerry said about Eberflus. He's had tremendous experience. He's dealt with adversity with a long record, not only with us, but with his tenure at Chicago and Annapolis. And he's had some great successes, had some very great successes, but he's had his tail kicked. That's who I want in the Foxville with me, because there's no such thing as having all the answers. Yeah, I mean, I'm just giving Jerry a little bit of a pass. I think this staff has overachieved. I think defensively, they weren't good last year with Micah,

so I'm not going to be too harsh this year without him. You knew you were going to lose the trade until next April. Listen, they were bad last year. Come on. They're bad last year. They've also played, you know, they got Philadelphia in week one. Philadelphia was good week one. You know, they've faced, they'll remain near the bottom of the NFL offensively.

but I think we knew going in this was not a Super Bowl team with Micah so now they're not trapped now they have two first round picks over the next two years I think they're going to be fine they've faced Caleb Williams Bryce Young and Justin Fields

and they're dead last in almost every category defensively Colin if I'm Iberfluse and I get a whiff my job's in trouble I go tell you know what I tell the media hey guys you know Jerry Jones decided to wait and pay our quarterback a billion dollars you can't build the defense

when you pay Jack Prescott that much one And oh, by the way, then you trade away our best defensive player, Michael Parsons. So we can't pressure the quarterback. We got nobody in the secondary. This is on the owner, guys. You can't as a chef hand the chef just random ingredients and say, hey, make me a Michel and Star Meal. It doesn't work like that, Colin. The Iber Fluse has no chance here, and this defense has zero shot.

I mean, Bryce Young, dog-walked them for three-quarters, okay? That's all you need to know about this Dallas defense right now. They're that bad. And I think it's Jerry's fault. You're giving him a pass. Well, it's not a pass. I just, I didn't want to resign Micah, so I'm going to live with the results for the next three months.

Okay. Final story, Colin, you know, we talked a lot about the bills last night. No love for Michael Pennix? Michael Pennix was slinging it all over the yard, threw for $2.50 and a touchdown. Probably should have had a second touchdown if Drake London doesn't step out of bounds at the end of the half. I didn't love this, though, after the game,

Pennix talking to the media, you know, speaking very highly of himself and his team. I don't feel like we played our football. You know, I feel like we have more in the tank. And for us to go out there and win that football game with the half, the second half that I feel like we had that was a big law, I feel like it's going to be a scary sight whenever we figure it out and, you know, all play together and play, play a full, full game and not just one good half.

It shows that we wanted them once. Like this team is really good. This team is really legit. Well, Drake London, Bison, Robinson are, and here's the thing. When Michael Pennix has time to throw, he throws a beautiful ball. I mean, I thought last night he looked really comfortable, and there's not a lot of great defenses in this league. Kansas City's got a great defense. Name the other great defenses.

Ram's defense is really good. There's not seven great defenses. There's none in his division. So, I mean, I watched that last night, and, you know, their top picks, Pennix, Bejohn, Drake, London, they're playmakers. Kyle Pitch has been a career disappointment. But this is a functional offense, and I think Michael Penix looks the part. I think he's exactly what I thought he would be.

When he has time to throw, he throws a beautiful ball, it's accurate, he gets rid of it quickly, he's a pro franchise quarterback. It's interesting. You bring that up, so they don't face good defenses. You know who they got this week is the San Francisco 49ers. Out of players. On Sunday night football. But the only problem is it's outdoors.

indoors, that Atlanta team looked like a track team. Okay, Bijon and Drake London? Drake London's established himself, you would say, as a one, right? He looks like a stud. Oh, absolutely. So you got a one, you got Bejon. I like Algiers a change of pace back. I like Pennix.

The defense showed well. Are you starting to believe in the Atlanta Falcons, Kyle, and the team that loves to let you down? I think offensively, they're a very interesting team. I mean, they beat. they beat 30-0. No, they lost 30-0 to the Falcons. That was their hiccup.

Everything that could go wrong went wrong in that game. Yeah, but I think it looks like a grown-up NFL offense with a lot of play. Even the Bejohn-Robinson run, he got tackled and he broke the tackle. Yeah. So he's sensational players. Don't forget, and the opener, they had Tampa beat and their kicker whiffs on like a 45-yarder at the buzzer. Or I don't know, maybe they're considered better than the bucks right now.

I'm just telling you, if you're buying stock, obviously want to buy last week before the bills game. But this is a Falcons team. Schedule, not that difficult. Okay, we like Pennix. Quarterback on a rookie deal. I know they got the dead money and cousins, but things are looking good for my Falcons. J. Mack with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd-Ly news. So we were talking an hour ago, I said, Blake Snell was so good last night, historically good. He didn't struggle the previous innings. And he was at 102 pitches. I would have just pitched them in the ninth,

because I didn't think it was a great spot to put a rookie pitcher, Roki Suzuki, on the mound. I didn't think it was a great spot. If I was going to pitch him in the NLCF, that's a lot of pressure. I wouldn't want him facing a Milwaukee lineup that gets contact. I wouldn't want him being on the road in game one, a pivotal game. I wouldn't want him having to go on the mound as a rookie after Blake Snell's performance and Blake's on the dugout steps watching you. I felt Roki was a bit intimidated by the moment.

He did not have great stuff. And I would have kept Snell in. I think in playoff baseball, just win the game, do not worry going forward. Let itself figure itself out. But here was Blake Snell on being pulled last night in the ninth, crossing your fingers for the win and his reaction. Feel like you get it on the night? Yeah, I mean, I felt like. Could have, but I trust Dave.

He knows what's best for the team. Okay. Here's Dave Roberts on pulling him and was it tough? I thought it was a tough one for me. Hadn't been in the ninth inning, eight-ups, potential going on regular, his next outing. I thought it's 50-50. Rokey's been thrown the baseball really well.

Have a two-run lead. I felt good with Roki there. All right. And, you know, again, so Dave Roberts is saying it's 50-50. Like, I get analytics. I'm not anti-analytics. I do think playoff basketball, analytics don't feel, I don't think you have to stay. I think analytics and basketball and baseball are for volume.

I think statistically for volume they work. But in playoff baseball, you'll use starters in the pen. You're going to manage differently because you're facing the best batting orders, high leverage situations. you'll trust guys in June against the Reds that you may not trust against the Brewers in Milwaukee. So I think you manage differently. I think in the NBA, the refs don't blow the whistle in the playoffs. So you're just stuff that works on the regular season when teams are not equally rested,

you just play the percentages in the regular season baseball and basketball. Postseason, it's more situational, circumstantial. So I would have just pitched, I would have pitched snow. But it was 50-50 and they pulled it. out. It was wild, though. Snell was just the change up. It was insane. Milwaukee could not get bat on ball.

He faced in eight innings. The minimum 24 batters. There was some stat about nobody done that since Don Larson. So I always think life, you know, if you're a kicker in the NFL and all these guys play three and a half

hours and you go up to kick it to win it. The pressure on delivery for the brotherhood, for your guys. How would you like to be a closer? You literally followed a Sandy Kofax level performance. You're a rookie. You're on the road.

It's Milwaukee in front of a hostile crowd. And you go up and Blake Snow's on the dugout steps watching you. Like that is enormous pressure. And I thought Rokey wasn't quite ready for it. So great games, though. They play again tonight, game two tonight, Jay Mack. Colin, you remember, I think it was Oral Herciser in 88. I'll never forget.

He was so good in that playoffs in the World Series. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. That was my introduction to the Dodgers. I haven't seen anybody as good as him since last night, Blake's know. He was that good. Yeah. And the Mariners have taken a convincing, you might as well shut that series down, a convincing, too-love lead on the Toronto Blue Jays.

Very exciting. Two-nill, two-love, two-nothing. Two-lover. Are you playing tennis again? Bigel. It's so exciting for the Mariners. So excited. for the Seattle Mariners.

Hey, get used to it. This is where they're going to be for the next week. Two weeks. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast?

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podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season.

And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was funny. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis' keep coming to him. He's like, you know I love it. dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is, getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit season two is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers

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