The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - Thoughts on Colin's list

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

NBA Insider Ric Bucher joins the show in studio to give his thoughts on the top duos in the leagueSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Ah, here we go. Hour number three, the power out. Live in L.A., it's the Hurt. You know what I like about that last segment? Is that you got both sides of it, that I like this all the time.

It's one of the things I think the media, J.MAC joining us, it's The Hurt in L.A. I think the media does a bad job. We all live in Echo Chambers now. Conservatives watch, you know, a Fox News, and a liberal would watch an MSNBC. And the truth is there's a lot of information that we don't seek information anymore. We seek affirmation. people only want to hear what they believe in. And Bill Maher, who's one of my favorites out there, recently had an interesting story.

I was never a fan of mandates for a vaccine. I thought you should get a vaccine, but I don't believe in mandates. There was just too much we didn't know about COVID. There were too many things we didn't know about the vaccine, so I don't believe in mandates. But Mar had an interesting story that less than 1% of people that got COVID were hospitalized, less than 1%. But when they did a poll to Democrats, they thought 50% of people that got it were hospitalized. Oh, geez.

Why? Because the left-leaning media only gave them one side of the story. And so I was never a fan of an age. I did get a vaccine. I think you should. I think it saved lives. But the point being is where I think the media really misses is they tell you what you want to hear too often.

That's where the ratings are. You know, we see people seek affirmation, not information. And the other thing is everybody's got agendas, which, by the way, I have an agenda. But when you push back on stuff, people are like, Colin, how come you don't take calls? The reason I don't take calls on the show has nothing to do with not wanting pushback. This is a TV show. TV shows don't take phone calls. When I did a radio show only, I did phone calls.

It's now a TV and a radio show simulcast. Phone calls hurt the ratings. But in the end, when you push back on that stuff, I think that topic is fascinating. You believe that players are playing longer because they are taking games off, right? Yeah. I believe players are playing. playing longer because of nutritional upgrades, travel upgrades, better masseuses on the road. I mean, just everything's better.

That's why they're playing longer. Their diets are better. I can remember years ago in Las Vegas, true story, opposed to the ones I make up. So Andre Agassi, I go through a Taco Bell. So Andre Agassiz either had just won the U.S. open in Flushing Meadows or wherever it is, New York, or he had been in the finals or something. And like three days later, I'm in a Taco Bell. And there's this giant yellow like Humvee.

That was a, remember a very popular truck that got like one mile per gallon. And they're just, they have this huge order. And I'm behind them, you know, getting a grande, whatever. It's Andre Agassi. He literally eating like a 17 year old high school kid, he'd just been in the U.S. Open final. And I'm like, athletes just don't eat like that as much anymore. is that the reason the athletes are playing longer isn't because they're skipping games. It is because it is now a less physical NBA.

You can't tackle people anymore. You can't hand check. The game was violent. I mean, you had like fights right. Nobody gets in fights in the NBA anymore. You used to have them all the time because you were tackling and that violence created animosity and just contact and conflict. So I think guys are playing long.

longer because of these ancillary upgrades, you tend to think it's because they're taking night tall. As with everything, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Like Bill Maher throws out that stat about 1% of people with COVID got hospitalized. That doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, what about people who are 40 and up who had a preexisting condition? No, no. I think that's something that I would tell Bill Maher, that matters more than you throwing out this stat that's going to go viral on social, right? I believe you should have got a vaccine. I absolutely. I'm not going to get a bunch of boosters, but I thought during that period, the strongest strain, I'm going to get a vaccine. I don't like mandates because we just didn't know enough.

We still are finding out stuff. We don't even know where it came from. I don't know. But the point is, his point was we too often seek affirmation and only get one side of the story. And both liberals and conservatives are both guilty. And so when people ask me, where do I vote, I'm like, I'm an independent. I voted for Obama.

I voted for Reagan. What's the color attributed with that? Is that blue or per person? I don't even know. I don't know the answer. But I'm with you. I'm in the middle. I don't, if I heard a smart quote, if you vote along party lines, you're not a clear

thinker. You're just following the herd, not the herd, but the masses who are telling you, you've got a side with us. You should be looking at every issue and caring and picking who you think is the best candidate for audience. That's how I've done it my whole life. You're smart. You're intelligent.

You're not a sheep who's following everyone else. Well, you and I think that way, but not most people I think. Is that how I got on the show? I know, but I think most people. have a side. I don't like picking side. I don't like clubs. I didn't like being a boy scout. I like being on my basketball team, but I don't like teams. I didn't want to be in a fraternity. I didn't want to be in the Cub Scout. I don't like groups and teams. You know, like belonging to a 900 club, a country club. No, I've never been in a country club. Oh. I've never joined a country club. Oh, I didn't know that.

That's pretty cool. No. Now, a private social drinking club where I get discounted beers. Yes, I said that because I knew you were in Wood. Yes. By the way, here's another example. So I want to do this. So the Knicks last night played the Celtics. It wasn't a national TV game. And the Knicks one.

And I do think the Knicks are a fun team. I don't think there is offensively gifted as Cleveland. They don't have the overall depth of the Celtics. And I don't think they have enough shot makers as Milwaukee. But I think if the Knicks play the Sixers in the playoffs, I think Knicks Miami would be a very, very interesting. series. Now, Miami's a better defensive team, but Tibbs teams play defense. But this is a great example of why I don't take much from this game last night. In the NBA, every game in the regular season, teams have

different motivations. So take the Celtics last night. They beat Philadelphia Saturday, a rival, like a really good playoff rival. National TV, Jason Tatum, was great. Last night, the game against the Knicks is not on national TV. It's the last game of a road trip, and they won their big game on the road trip Saturday. Jalen Brown's out. Tatum and the Celtics were completely flat in the first quarter. Tatum was awful in the first quarter. A couple of turnovers, one for six. And so all of a sudden, it's not on national TV.

The Celtics had a different motivation. They wanted to get home and rest Jalen Brown. The Knicks are looking for a better seed. They want to prove their worth. They're at home. They're on a winning streak. It felt like a playoff game. And you could tell eight minutes in, they dominate the first quarter.

They got all the guys played. The band is playing. They're rocking the house. The game felt different for the Knicks. It's not an excuse. Boston's a better team. But in the playoffs, that's why I take regular season games. There's five or six I really want to watch.

In the playoffs, it's different than last night. Every team is equally rested. And everybody's motivation. is the exact same. Right? So that's why March Madness, even though the talent average is so much fun. Everybody generally equally rested, right?

Mostly, they're young kids. You know, they're 19-year-old kids. They don't need tons of rest. And the motivation is the same. Winner, you go home. You go home. I had a friend years ago was a sports gambler, and he was very, very good at it,

and he bet a ton of college basketball. But what he really bet was the tournament. And his argument was the tournament was the truest measure for a sports gambler. Because everybody was playing for sudden death. Like in the end, even in the NBA playoffs, you'll get games where I lead to nothing. It's game three. You're protecting home court. You're playing for pride.

And that game three, you're down 02. You go back home. You play out of your mind. The other team knows the series is over because if you win the first two games, you win like 88% of the time. So even in the NBA playoffs, you'll get the occasional game three. where you're up to nothing, and you come out a little flat. The other team's hair is on fire, and they beat you.

So this is a great example. I don't take anything from that game last night. I take nothing from it. The Celtics were flat. Jalen Brown takes the night off. Tatum was uninspired. They just beat Philly on Saturday. The Knicks are at home, proving their worth, felt like a playoff game.

They're on a winning streak. Celtics are a third game and a three-game road trip. They want to get back home. They want to rest. And by the way, there's a big argument in Philadelphia. in Boston these days, they think they're playing Jason Tatum too much because at the end of last year, Tatum in the playoffs did not, he didn't look 100%. He wasn't 100%.

And so there's a little bit of a concern as the Warriors are making sure all their stars get rest and everybody's, you know, like Steph Curry is going to make sure he gets rest. Andrew Wiggins is off. Draymond Green knee scoped. The Warriors are attacking this regular season a little bit like, we're going to make sure our veterans are 100% healthy. fear is that Boston doesn't care about the number one seed. They want Tatum to have rest.

But this is a great example of the Celtics probably took the right tack. But the reason I didn't spend any time on this game, because in the NBA regular season, teams have different motivations. And occasionally you do get a Saturday night TV game. We got one earlier this year. It was Lakers Celtics, Saturday night Boston Garden. The Lakers wanted to prove we can go with these guys. And it was a great two and a half hours of basketball.

It got a good rating. I think it was fantastic. Well, the Sixers Celtics game this past weekend was outstanding. Yes, yes, yes. Saturday night. But I'll say a quick word on the Knicks, because we talked about him yesterday. I mentioned Josh Hart since the addition in the back court. They are undefeated.

Colin, to watch him come off the bench with Barrett starting and struggling and Quentin Grimes struggling to watch Hart and quickly come off the bench. This is a deeper Knicks team with Josh Hart coming off the bench. He's reliable, doesn't turn the ball over. He stuffs the stat sheet with assists and rebounds. Do they have enough shot maker? in the postseason. That's a big question.

I think I lean on Brunson and Randall. Well, I could argue Boston, there are times they need Derek White to get hot. Because if Jason Tatum is off, it becomes very jailing. He was a huge addition last year for them. Brad Stevens has done a great job. The Celtics do need that number one seed.

You don't want to be two. That means you have to face likely the Sixers in the second round. If you're the number one scene. I don't worry about the Sixers. Celtics will beat the Sixers. Cleveland would beat the Sixers. I thought Jol and Beat was one of the best guys in the league. Who said that?

Everyone on planet Earth who loves the NBA? They think Joel M. Bitt is like... Well, he's a great player. I don't trust him in the postseason. Nor do I, but I don't think you want to face him if you don't have to. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio app. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'll say. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

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this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics

from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to stuff to blow your mind on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Groundbreaking runs on the family, so to safety, 23 Mercedes-Benz SUVs. That's MBUSA.com. Check it out. We just had a good discussion here during the break. Rick Buecker and I went to dinner last night. Very covert conversation. We're not telling you any of it. But what's interesting is we were talking during the break and you just threw something out there. What I'm trying to get J. Mack to get his arms around is that I think Luke has got some James Harden qualities that he doesn't elevate

teammate. He's not easy to play for. Defense is a hobby, not an occupation. And he's going to go down as a top 10 score. But my entire life since watching the NBA starting in 72 with wilt, you know, I can remember those years. There's always been great scores that don't necessarily elevate teammates. And your take on Luca is... He can be difficult to play with. And he shares... It's a unique thing because he shares the ball and he scores and he's...

He can see the floor. He can do all those things. But you are definitely playing to his tune. And you have to adapt to what he's going to do. And at this point, he's... He's very, very good, bordering on great, but he has to learn how to win. When I watch him with his national team and he gives up the ball more frequently, they're a better team.

And that's where I think he needs to get to. And if there's no accent, when Jason Kidd said, our team has to mature, look at Dodgers is the head of that list in terms of having to mature, not just getting involved and upset with the referees or taking everything personally that said to him on the floor, but really starting to understand, like, how he can make the most out of what he has around. It is funny that I always said there's like guys that aren't winning players. Zach Levine, him, he's a very good player. He's not a winning player. I never thought Westbrook's a winning player. I think you can be a score. Like, I think Kobe was a winning player. And I think Steph Curry is a winning player. It's not just if you take a bunch of shots.

Yeah. I think Luca has a lot of qualities of a winning player. Yeah. But I've seen now Brunson Porzingas and Kyrie Irving where it's like, I don't know. I'm not sure if it, some of it has to be on Luca. For sure. For sure. And I have no doubt that he will get there. I like everything about him.

But does his game have to evolve? This is the issue that I've had with my media brethren anointing him as the MVP at the beginning of every year. Oh, he's going to win it this year. He's the MVP this year. I'm like, he's not there yet. And when we start to give accolades before they've been truly earned, I believe that it undermines the development of the players.

It's okay when you see greatness to say, I want you to fully realize your greatness. I'm not going to give it to you ahead of time. Buck Celtics. I lean Milwaukee, more shot makers. Who do you lean? I've said Milwaukee from the beginning of the year. Are you a skeptic of Tatum? Yes.

I think Golden State's in his head. Without question. And I said this a week or so ago where I, I believe I was talking to Chris Broussard. I believe that I trust Milwaukee more. Yes. Because I know what I'm going to get from Janus. Every night.

I know what I'm going to get from Drew Holiday. I know what I'm going to get from all their guys. Some are limited, but I know what I'm getting from Joe Ingalls mostly, if he's healthy. Yeah. And it's not, I'm not saying that they're going to play great every night. Yannis doesn't always play great, but he's always going to make you beat him. And there are times where I just see Tatum kind of give in or decides this is not my night and he loses his aggression. When you're my most talented player and my entire team is looking for you to be that guy to lead us and you decide, I don't think I have it tonight, that's going to undermine my team and it's going to shake the confidence of my overall team.

People tend to think a number one guy, a number one talent thinks like a one. Andrew Wiggins has number one talent. He's a number two to three guy. His personality is very passive. And I would say the same with Jason Tatum. This to me is potentially the Achilles heel with the Boston cell. I agree. Half court offense.

Sometimes there are times when Jalen Brown is not times. He's just more aggressive. He's a bigger, he's a stronger athlete. He's a more aggressive. I think he's more verbal. He's more vocal. He's more aggressive. Give me the ball. Tatum sometimes waits for the ball. Yep. That's what I see in their half-court sets.

Or he's simply, when he's attacking, he's falling away. He's not aggressive looking for that shot. He starts to take sort of a passive approach, even when he's taking shots. And again, we're talking about fine differences. But if we're talking about winning a championship, then my best player has to be a guy that I know is going to go hunt that shot and take it if it's available. So Country Club McIntyre has no problem with load management. I think teams, I think he's also missing a button. So, or going to the club tonight. I wasn't sure which was it.

Come on, Rick, of course. Tuesday night, club night out here in L.A. Don't you know that? No, I just moved to L.A. So no, I don't know that. Welcome to have. Welcome to L.A. So I go button all the way out mostly. Okay, so I think baseball sent a message for years that they're now radically changing. And their message was, your time doesn't matter. Our game is our game. And people stopped watching. The NBA's message is, stars are going to play when they want to play.

And it's like, don't end. They're on like a six-year ratings decline. I am bothered by it. Adam Silver, a little tone deaf? How do you solve it? Well, I do believe that what they're going to do. do is incentivize players to play that awards and maybe even contracts contracts are going to be tied monetary value is going to be tied to number of games played the tricky part here is that the owners

are essentially they're behind the load management they're looking at the medical data the same way they looked at analytics because that is their language that's their love language if you will That's what they understand. If you get into the nuances of the game. You say the owners are looking at it? They're okay with the guys not playing? Yeah, because their money is already in their pocket in terms of ratings and revenue and all that. So the owners and the players don't care.

I sell my season tickets. Look, I think there are players, there are more players who care than you might think. Oh, I think they care. Mostly. Yes. But the difference is you have the medical staff saying, hey, they're reading the data, the medical data and going, hey, you need a night off? If you need a night off, just tell us and we'll tell the coach.

Why can't we go to 72 games, not 82? Would that solve it? I suppose, but I almost feel like that's a sliding scale. It'll be 72, and then 10 years later, five years later, let's go to 62. It'll be diminishing returns. I honestly, and I know this would never fly. I'm like, rather than reduce the number of games, because that's going to reduce revenue,

number of games people can attend and watch. etc. Reduce it to 40 minutes. Reduce the game to 40 minutes. Play it like college. That's 10 minute quarter. Good to the same place and you're still charge the same money. Nobody's going to miss the eight minutes.

I don't think that's a terrible idea. Yeah. And look, the historians are going to say, well, that changes all the dynamics and all the statistics. Look, where we are right now, it's already changed. I was looking at this, and I didn't know we were going to get to it, but the scoring in the league right now, right? we have six guys that are averaging 30 points or better.

I could not find a year where there was more than three, and I'm going back to the 60s. I looked in the 80s. I can't find a year where there were six guys averaging 30 plus points in the same season. That's where the game has tilted to the offensive end and to shooters like never before. Yeah, I am not somebody, like baseball fan cracks.

me up. They get so beholden to records. You had a 15-year period where guys were taking cattle steroids and you were worrying about baseball card numbers. Who gives a rip? I mean, to me, I would cut the baseball down to 120 games. I'd start a month later, no more rainouts. And then I'd end a month

earlier and I'd wrap up the playoffs by, you know, step number 28. Because once you get into October, football just crushes baseball unless the Yankees are playing. So I'm not, I have no problem with 10 minute quarters. By the way, the last two minutes take an hour anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, all of it is a sliding scale. I honestly believe that

there are elements to the game that are causing all this. Offenses are more star-centric than ever before. Yeah. So the star players are carrying a greater load. I do believe that the game is faster, and the demand athletically or physically is different, but I don't know that it's any less than it was before, it just comes in a different form. Basketball's never had more great athletes. You can't put a, you can't put, it's hard to put a guy on the floor that can't hit a jumper. Not only hit a jumper, but

that doesn't have the agility and the speed and the vertical, like all of that. We romanticized the Pacers Knicks. The Knicks didn't have a true, pure shooter on their roster. John Starks was a guard. He wasn't a great shooter. They didn't have any shooters. Well, the flip side of that

is, but they had a lot of guys that were defenders. Oh, yeah, great. grabbing and tackling. No, but well, but what you see now is, like, think of how many teams have what is called a defensive stopper? Like, Pete A Tucker is a dinosaur. He's the last of his kind. And how well is he contributing? Like, he's not giving them what they thought he was going to give them. So that is also inflating the offensive numbers. Marcus Smart. Markets, that guy. Yeah, but he can play both ways. I'm a big Marcus Smart. You could argue he's the soul of the team.

He really is. I would agree. He's their dream on green. Okay. So I did this earlier. I don't trust. I watched the end of the heat Sixers game last night. And I said yesterday before the show, and I'll say it again.

I trust, I don't love Miami, but I trust them late. Yeah. Great coach, great defense. Most one bucket wins in the league 13. Philadelphia's got more talent. Never trust them. Doc situationally. They had a ton of turnovers last night.

And I just late in games, I just don't trust Harden. So I said, here are the best duos in the NBA. To me, the best duo. So put these do. So here's a way. Now, Steph and Clay have things that you can't. It's hard to quantify. Playoff experience.

They're joined at the hip. It's like telegraphic. They talk a different half court offense. That's number one. Durant and Booker. I know they haven't played, but I made the argument. I've never been in a Bentley, but I know it drives well. I don't need to be in one to know it's expensive.

it's perfect everybody loves a bentley Durant and Booker are going to work instantly so I go down the list Tatum Brown Janice Drew Holliday You finally hit the number one What do you mean? It's number four Yonis and Drew Holiday

are number one You think Janice and Drew I like Drew but he's a B player What I love about the B plus Drew Isn't he? Drew Holiday just took them past the suns

over the weekend as the guy shutting down Booker and score. He can do both. I'm not throwing shade at Drew Holiday. I love him. To me, he's top three point guard. I argued that if Kauai Leonard played,

he and Paul George could be three. Both elite defenders. Yeah. Good get a bucket guy. Paul's a little bit iffy in the postseason. I think, now you didn't like Donovan Mitchell and Garland, who I think are gifted offensively.

Well, you talk about lack of defense with Luca and Kyrie. I mean, they play. none. And I'm not even sure if they work offensively yet. Mitchell and Garland work offensively. A lot of guards don't play defense in this league. Here's the other part. And why I put Janice and Drew at the top now

just because of the health issues with the Warriors is because they complement each other. Yes, they do. It can't just be a great talent. Like KD and Booker, they're kind of the same. They're scorers. Which one's the playmaker there? Let me ask you, what Warriors?

question. We talked about this at dinner. A lot of covert information. You don't get any of it. Yeah. But I'll give you this one. But Afagato. As a dessert. Vanilla ice cream with espresso poured over it. Yeah. I've added that to my vocabulary. So, J. Mack, if I ever say you, Afagado, you, that's a term of

endearment. That's not an Italian insult or anything. I'm aware that that is a term of it. Yeah. You alfagato you. Italian? Italian? It's a food love language. My wife's Italian. Oh, there you go. So I believe this is the last year of the Warriors dynasty. This feels like the Jordan team where you could have run it back. They just won the second three.

You could have run it back. And Jerry Krause is like, we're all falling apart here. And I do think you could run it back. But Bob Myers wants to get paid more. Kerr, and there's a lot of stuff here. The young guy, they already bailed on Wiseman. I think Kerr likes Kuminga, doesn't trust him. There's a big difference.

pool is hot and cold. I'm never going to... I mean, he's a flake. He disappears, but he can be great. I think it's the last year of the Warriors dynasty. And I do think you have to strongly consider making a big move next year. You cover them more than I do. Am I wrong?

No. No. Honestly, this is it. You could have, yes, as constituted. And I would dare say that last year was a gift. I don't want to say they stole one, but they got one that you shouldn't rightfully expect. No, I mean, Clay was 70%. When a team, when a championship team falls off the cliff as they did for two years, how many teams have we seen like that that have come back and won another

championship, basically with the same core? No, last year was the year to beat him. Yes. Because the young guys weren't ready to play and Clay wasn't, yeah, 75%. Yeah. Well, this was the year to beat them. Yeah. This was the year to beat the Chiefs. Ten rookies played. This was the year to beat the Chiefs. No argument. No argument. What do you think the movement? What do you think the move? move is. Well, that's the difficulty. There's not a move to be made that is going to, like, resurrect them as a champion. I believe that you need to start looking like, how do we build our next core? I think you're right. So, and can you get there? I would put all pieces on the table because once you start to, let's face it, once you start to take apart Clay, Dre, and

Steph, it's not the same thing. You might as, I mean, you're not going to move Steph. Steph's going to retire. No question. A warrior. And I would, I would. I would. I would. I would. He's still outstanding when he's ready to go. But everybody else, I believe, should be available. And then the conversation is going to be with Steph. Like, we need to make these moves. You can still be friends with Ray and Clay. Clay is having a great year.

You could argue it's the time to move. Oh, for sure. For sure. That's the player. Because I still contend Draymond's their best defender and a total catalyst in their half-court offense. Yeah. They move the ball way better when he's in the.

the game. Well, for sure. It's, it's, the disappointment is that Jordan and Andrew Wiggins got their rings and they got paid and they don't look to me as if they have the same hunger that they had a year ago. See, I think Jordan Poole's the classic, because I think you'd go to Steph and say, we're thinking of moving Clay and he'd say, why don't you move Poole? Because Poole can give you 38 or 6. He's not a terribly mature player. that. And you could see something, you could see in Orlando, did somebody go take a big swing on Jordan Pool? Yeah. Wouldn't they? Yeah, they might. Yeah. He's got that, he's got the championship veneer now. He's got the, he's going to be the next, and honestly, you might be able to sell

Jordan Pool as the next step more than you could, Tray Young. I like Tray Young. I like Tray Young. More of the Jordan Pool. I do. Yeah, I wouldn't fault you on that. Neither is a great defender. I think Pool could be a better defender. I don't think Trey is. Jordan, that's what kind of frustrates me, and Draymond, by the way, about Jordan. Athletically, there's no reason that he can't be a really, really good defender. He doesn't want to be. He's long, athletic, agile. Can you win a title with Jordan Pugl as your second best player? No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not sure you could do it with your third.

I don't know. Your best player's staff. Your second best player this year is Clay. Third best player's Wiggins. Fourth best player is Draymond. There's no accident that as the playoffs went on last year, Jordan played a smaller, smaller and smaller role than he did. Kerr can love guys. He doesn't trust him. I think he really likes Cominga. He'll never play him late in a big game. Well, just look at the guys that he played in big spots last year. He trusted Namanya Bialita. He trusted Otto Porter. It's not a matter of what your talent is. Otto's been around the league. Zaza Pichulia. He trusted Zaza Pachulia. He trusted Zaza Pachulia. He trusted Zaza Pachulia. more than Javale McGee. And you would have people out there going,

why are you playing petulia rather than Javale? Javail is long, athletic, whatever. He can run. It's like, Steve knows that Zaza is going to be, or knew, Zaza was going to be where he was supposed to be when he was supposed to be there. People didn't understand why Russ Westbrook got benched the other night. He was because he was having a nice offensive night. It's because coaches aren't looking at the box scoring going,

oh, hey, shooting 60%. I got to keep them on the floor. It's, you were supposed to run the play this way, and you completely botched it, and then you gave up on a, you didn't fight over a screen, and we got a switch, and now you're guarding Nicola Yokic. I'm taking you out of the game. Right. And the fans, I don't know, always realize that a coach watching the game is judging

whether his game plan is being executed. And if it's not, then you're not going to stay on the floor. Can I ask him about Drew Holiday, Colin? He likes Drew Holiday. He said Drew Holiday was the third best point guard in the league. Who said that? I did not. I did.

No, he did. I did. I said top three. It's tough. Is Damian Lillard a point guard? Yes. Is Steph Curry a point card? Yes.

John Moran a point card. Yes. Drew Holliday is a much better than one of those guys? Well, he's a much better defender than all of them. He's the best defender. He's the best defensive point guard. And with all apologies. to Marcus Smart. Drew Holiday is the best.

Right, but I think we would agree offense beats defense pretty much hands down. The way of the league's being played now, but I just I think Drew's offense is vastly underrated when you need him to step up and take a big shot, make a big shot. He does that? Does he do it every time? No. But he understands

he understands the game. His willingness to work around Chris Middleton and Janice Anteco and... Well, they don't ask him to score 71. They don't, but against Phoenix over the weekend, he got 33 because that's what they needed, because Middleton didn't have it going and Janus wasn't available.

So when I see a guy who's able to step into the breach against a team like the Suns, who, yes, okay, so they didn't have KD. Basically had everybody else. KD's back. They just announced he's coming back. He's planning a night. Tomorrow or tonight? Tomorrow night, I believe.

Yes, correct. Big game. TV game, Colin, so you can be very excited that he's showing up for the TV audience. By the way, when you go out at the dinner with this, I had, I had, forgotten this because we hadn't gone out for a while. Like you you walk into some of these these very shishi restaurants. It's like walking into Collins living room. I walk through the door and the hostess says, oh, are you here to see Colin? I'm like, yes, I am. And then I get escorted to the table. Now, the place is full, right? Yeah. But somehow as soon as you walk

through the door, they just assume you must be here to see Colin. Yeah, I tip well. A couple cougars usually having one eye on cowher as well. We have to be. That's a lot. Like he said, it was a covert covert conversation. Okay, Rick Bewer is awesome. I'm going to read a spot. We'll come back and get a herd line. Good stuff, man. That was great.

Meaty stuff. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. This is Steve Kavino and Rich. And together we are Kavino and Rich. Kvino and Rich. Thanks, buddy. That's right. Kavito and Rich.

Fox Sports Radio's newest hit show. Heard weekdays from 5 to 7 Eastern 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Every Covino and Rich shows available as a podcast. Just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast and subscribe. I'm such a rocking dude. The show features our unique take on sports,

injected with some fun, humor, and relatability. Listen to Covino and Rich five days a week on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Covino and Rich, give me a hell, yeah. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'll say. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of taun tons and wampas on the ice planet hot,

or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith rule of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your part. podcast. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com slash herd terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn jobs. Free, effective, find people you need for your company quicker. J-Mac with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I don't know if you saw these quotes from Damian Lillard. There's a couple Damian Lillard fans on this show. Not all the producers love him, but he's been loyal to the Blazers for his entire 11-year career.

And they've been, you know, competitive. I think won Western Conference Finals. But Lillard thinks that players without rings don't get enough credit for the rest of their success. Here's what Damian Lillard said. I've represented the organization and this team as well as anybody has represented their team. And I give them their bang for the buck. When they come to see me, they get a show. They get excitement.

They get wins. They get playoff experiences. The only thing I haven't done is win a championship. I think people don't give enough credit. we're in an era of how many rings you got. That's why I want to win one so bad. We devalue people's body of work if you don't win a championship. Here, here, totally agree.

That's extremely well said. Yep, he's absolutely right. All that being said, I'd love to see him on the NBA final stage. You saw how it elevated it. Devin Booker, Drew Holiday. But Bradley, Beal, Janus, a lot of these guys don't want to move. They like, you know, I just totally get it. He's totally loyal to Weber State.

He still goes back to their, they have like a blue-gray game or something every year, alumni. He goes back every year. He's loyal to his high school, his college. He's a loyal guy. I totally respect that. Some guys want to jump around to bands, different bands. Some guys... But you respect that too, right? I'm, I am for mobility, but it's not for everybody. I have given up things in my life to be mobile. I don't, I, my kids have had to make friends, new friends over. I look at people that have these potlucks at the end of the street for 30 years, and they know the names of all their neighbors, and I have given that up for some financial benefits and some freedom and flexibility, but I have definitely given something up for that. And there's great

value in security and being content and great happiness in it, and I totally get Bradley Beal Janus. I think most pro athletes don't want to leave, but they have a lousy owner or a kooky GM or a bad coach and they have most guys leave because they feel like they have to leave. They don't leave because they want to leave. Yeah. You think Kevin Durant wanted to leave OKC? Yes, he couldn't get him.

He was bored out of his mind. Well, he was bored out of his mind. But in most instances, you're right. All right. Next up, got to go back to my Jets. Still looking for a veteran quarterback this offseason. Aaron Rogers is out there. Gosh, I hope he doesn't go to the Jets. Other names, are you ready for this besides Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo?

I heard one today. Ryan Tannenhill's name is being floated. Oh boy, that's expensive. You know like a safety school when you apply to college? It's not a bad safety school. That's a very expensive safety school. At the right price. I mean, Tanyhill's not going to get more than 20, 25, right?

Last year was a bidding on Ryan Tanyhill. But the two names that I think will surprise you, Gino Smith? I saw that. That feels like his agent trying to get a higher price, right? I believe that Gino's going to come back down to her. That is my belief. As a quarterback or realistic salary demands? Well, not as a defensive end.

he's going to pull back and have an average year, not a great one. The Rams will be better. The Niners will still be loaded. Their schedule now is their schedule a little tougher. But you can't go to the negotiation table saying you're going to come back to Earth next year, Gino. He's going to ask him for a lot of money. I'm not paying Gino Smith a lot of money. I am not.

See, it's easy for us to say that, but then what are you doing? Okay, good luck starting Drew Lott. No, I think the jets are in dire straits here. I think they're in trouble. Well, no, they're in great shape because they have a nucleus. they just don't have a quarterback. So they're going to have to pay the last name, Colin. It's like being in Phoenix.

I got everything but a pool and air conditioning. I got everything my house has no air conditioning, no pool. We got everything else. So the worst name the Gino Smith is Daniel Jones. You know what this is? This is basically agents using the jets as leverage. Well, they got no quarterback. And ain't Zach Wilson.

Let me toss my guy's name out there. Daniel Jones would be a disaster for them. He is working solely because of the table. Yeah, that would be, that's ridiculous. I can't wait for more Daniel Jones wants $40 million a year. Oh, no, I saw. That was one of the biggest laughs you had on this show before vacation. I got nothing against Daniel Jones.

21 million. 40? Well, he's going to get at least 30. Oh, that is, that is not right. And I don't begrudge athletes making a fortune. Yeah, get that paper, Daniel Jones. Final story. Falcons released Marcus Marriota after one season.

They save about $12 million in cap space. Now they're going to ride Desmond Ritter, the Cincinnati, product. They drafted him last year. I know you're not big on order. This is the team. This is the one team that I could see going after Justin Fields. Local kid, big and dynamic, still has some talent.

They've got a star tied end and a star receiver. You could go get, give up. Why wouldn't they be in the mix for Derek Carr then? Much more expensive. Justin's cheaper. He's in his prime. You know, because he's coming off an off year, you could probably get Justin Fields for a better deal than you could get...

Okay. You know, I mean, like, he's a little bit of... I mean, how much would you have to give up to get Justin Fields at this point? Not a... They had a 10-game losing streak. What about Marcus Marietta? It's over. Is it over?

He's not going to be a starter in the league anywhere? Should never be a topic on the show. Justin Fields is interesting. No, I think how long is Arthur Blank, a legitimate owner in this league, and they have an offensive coach. So Justin Fields could go from a defensive coach to an offensive coach with a star receiver, a star tight end in a terrible division. I'm Atlanta. I'm calling Chicago. Give me your quarterback. And then Chicago says, all right, that's fine. Give us a bunch of

pick. So then all of a sudden you have your number one pick and then you got Atlanta's eight pick. And all of a sudden now I can get my quarterback and my defensive tackle. So you're giving up the eighth pick or whatever Atlanta has in the top 10. For a guy you've got to pay in two years, who you don't know if is a starter? But he's a, he is. You just said they lost 10 games. in a row with him. Well, I think he played eight of them. Okay. My point is if you're Atlanta, in that, so it's a much different division being in the, against the high scoring lions, Aaron Rogers, and the high scoring Vikings. That's a tough division to be Justin Fields. I get to go to this division where I'm easily the most athletic, talented quarterback.

I think Atlanta's got a call. I think they, I think the city would love him. I think he's, I don't think, I just, I believe that Desmond Ritter is not the answer. That's just not it. What is he? Five starts to find out? I mean, it's a little early to be tossing him out. It's not a starter at the end of the end.

You can't throw an hour fastball past ball past me. I don't see it. J. Mack with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Law News. So Chicago could keep their number one pick and get the eight pick. So you could get your defense.

They need an edge rusher. They need a defensive tackle. And they would then need a quarter. And if you view, you know, like I say with Bryce Young, you could say, I don't think, I don't think Bryce Young in Chicago is a perfect fit. But if you believe he is more talented than Justin Fields, you reset the clock, you go with Justin Fields, and you have an eight pick to solve your defensive front needs. Okay, I like that. Let me take it a next step, Colin. What if you don't take a quarterback at one or with the Falcons pick? You say, we're going to build everything but

the quarterback. We want Caleb Williams next year. I don't think that's terrible. I don't think It's terrible. I think Houston needs to strongly consider that as well. I mean, Caleb Williams is going to be the number one pick next year, right? Short of a massive injury. And if he's not, it's Drake May out of Carolina. He's very good. No, I...

There's a kid at FSU that's on the rise. There's some good quarterbacks next year. This year's quarterback class is not great. I don't think Bryce Young's Chicago's great. But if you, like, if CJ Stroud knocks your scout socks off and you're like, wow, he's the guy, I think it's worth consideration. All this stuff is in play. They lost 10 games in.

to roll. You've got to consider everything. All right, we're done. We'll see you tomorrow. Live in L.A. It's the hurt. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David

Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle Christ. Listen to Superhuman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black. people.