The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd - Hour 3 - Will this work out for the Bucks?

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

More on the blockbuster Damian Lillard and if it will work out for the Bucks Looking at the Packers offense and seeing Jordan Love playing better than we thought he would   Guests: Ric Bucher, Tyler DunneSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in noon to 3 Eastern 9 a.m. to noon Pacific.

Find your local station for the herd at Fox Sports Radio.com or stream us live every day in the IHeart Radio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. All right, Rick Buecker covering the NBA since 1993. You know, it is funny. A lot of times this happens. I said this earlier. Miami and L.A., from the outside, everybody's sure they'll love them. And a lot of people go there, and it's pressure and the sun and the stars.

I love Milwaukee as a fit. I do. I really do their size. What do you make of the fit? Well, what I'm struggling with is making out with this. this Colin Cowherd, who is magnanimous and loves everything about everyone. Can we grade the trades? I don't know that they're all equal, and I would put the Phoenix Suns first. I do like the fit of Damien Lillard in Milwaukee for a lot of the reasons that you already mentioned.

But this is not, I don't even know how much of a consolation prize this actually is for, him. I don't think it's something that he had to come to terms with. What I've been told is that he and Janus have been friendly for quite some time and are basically cut from the same cloth as two stars who were not seen as stars coming into the league, went to small markets and said, no, I'm not going to go join forces with somebody else. I'm going to try to get it done here. And so while they appreciated each other, they were both trying to independently do their own thing. Well, Portland turning the page and saying we're going to rebuild, open the door for Janus to say, hey, come on over. I picked you first when we had the All-Star

draft for a reason. I want to play with you. And don't undersell the gesture of Janus taking him first in the All-Star draft over Drew Holiday and everybody else. What that means, to Damien Lillard. He has always been the guy who has been overlooked and underrated. And when you show that you believe in him, that is how you win his loyalty. And that's why when the Miami deal just wasn't going to work, I really don't think that this was that tough of a sell to say, hey, what about Milwaukee? And don't undersell the idea that the reason that this happened, the way that it did is because Janice started making noise about going elsewhere. And this was the price to pay in order to get him to stay.

I will be shocked if in some way Janus hasn't given them a signal that if you go get Damien and bring him here, then you don't have to worry about me leaving. Okay, so Miami's grumbling, which shows you they really wanted Dame, but there's still the Drew Holiday piece, which reportedly Portland's going to move, is Miami in the running? I love Holiday. He's not the score of Dame. He's a much stronger, better defender. Is Miami in play for Drew Holiday? They are. I've been told by people in the league that there are four teams right now that are looking to acquire Drew Holiday. And it's why the trade is not going to be officially announced until Portland either finds a place for Drew or is

convinced that they can't move him. But the onus is on them and they are, they are intending to move Drew for young talent draft pick. Now, while Miami couldn't make the deal for Damien, this is a little bit different. The price is not going to be nearly as high. A young talent and a first round pick should probably get the deal done. However, Miami isn't the only team that is is hoping to make this move. I'm told that Boston is in the running. The Philadelphia 76ers are in the running. Wow. And the clippers are in the running. Now, this is what makes this really, like everybody's blown away by the trade. What a great trade by Milwaukee. They're the favorite. The odds makers have already lowered the, or raised the odds in terms of their chances of

winning the championship. But Drew Holiday could potentially go to one of the teams that stands in the Milwaukee Bucks way. Yeah. Philadelphia, Boston, or Miami. Yeah. And the last time we saw Drew Holiday play against Damien Lillard, it was the New Orleans Pelicans

against the number six-seeded New Orleans Pelicans versus the number three-seeded Portland Trailblazers. And Drew Holiday dominated Damian Lillard in that series, and the Pelicans swept. So I can't wait to get to April. Well, first, I can't wait to find out where Drew Holiday lands.

I hope it is with one of those teams in the East. And then I can't wait to see the Bucks and that team go head to head. And we watch the Drew Holiday Damien Lillard saga play out. I want to ask you a final question. We overreact to everything in the media. This idea, international soccer and NBA, stars have a lot of empowerment. That doesn't mean they always. go where they want to go.

And so I don't think, I mean, the bottom line is, Yonis won a Dame and got him. Yes. That's power too. I don't think players, superstar players today are going, man, we're just going to get sent to the wizards. What did you make of the move for star players? I, well, look, to take the Damien Lillard situation as a litmus,

I think it's a unique situation because Damien is, Damien had a reputation and an image to uphold, and he truly is a loyal guy. Yes. He wasn't going to sit out. He really could have pushed it and said, I'm not going, I could have done to James Harden. I'm not going anywhere but this particular place. Make the best deal possible.

And if you don't send me there, I'm going to put on 40 pounds and make your life miserable. Damien Lillard's not going to do that. So he left the door open for them to make another deal. and end up in Milwaukee. And as I said, I don't think he's unhappy at all with this being the second option. By and large, I mean, let's face it, this is a huge, huge gamble by Milwaukee. They've mortgaged their future and they didn't get any younger. The only reason you do this is if Yannis says, do this and then I stay.

And I think that's more reflective of the power. that players, that star players have in the league. You're not going to send them someplace. Ultimately, you're not going to send them someplace that they don't want to go. Rick Buecker, as always, delivered. Good seeing you, buddy. Dang. At the end of your first year, Discover credit cards automatically double all the cashback you've earned.

Everything earned doubled, seriously. See terms? Check it out for yourself at discover.com slash match. I have a great parley for you this weekend, thanks to Draft King's Sportsbook. New users use the code heard, H-E-R-D when you download the app. All right, here's my parlay pick of the week via Draft King Sportsbook. Commanders plus eight at the Eagles. Philly on a short week due to Monday night football. Commanders, division game, they run the ball, humiliated by Buffalo.

Teams humiliated play better than next week. Eagles may win, I'll take the eight. Browns at home minus two and a half against the injuries. injury riddled Ravens. Browns, the best team in the league nobody's watching or cares about. I don't know how Baltimore moves the ball consistently. I'll take the Browns minus two and a half. I'll take the Rams plus one against the Colts. Gardner Minshu feels good. What a story. Rams played very poorly. They'll get the details and the run game back. They're a better team than the Colts. Rams plus one. If you want to take the herd parlay, check out Draft King Sportsbook. New users.

hurt A-G-R-D when you download the app. 21 plus in most eligible states, but age varies by jurisdiction. Eligibility restrictions apply. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler. In New York, call 8778-8-H-N-Y or text Hope N-Y 467-369. See Show Notes for full details. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documentation. at all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that are not. don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little bit? Kim, well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS.

the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Navian tankless water heaters, 15-year limited warranty.

Go to tankless made, simple.com, and navian. Only heat water when you need it, so it never runs out. J-MAC, as always, with the news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. I found this this morning. It's an NBA story.

I don't know if you're going to love this, Colin. But you remember how we talked about Steph Curry and Magic Johnson? Who's the best point guard ever? Steph Curry made his comments last month, and I don't remember where you were. But I'm officially gone over to the dark side. I have Curry passing Magic. Well, Magic Johnson was asked about it somewhere. and I think you're going to be surprised by Magic Johnson's response.

If he got more than five championships, if he got more than three finals MVP and three league MVP, then he's the greatest. If he got more than, you know, number one in assists, all time in the finals, number two in double doubles, number one in triple doubles, all time in the NBA playoffs,

Number four and steals all time in the playoff. If he got more than those numbers, he's the best. But the last time I checked, he doesn't. But everybody has to, you know, decide for themselves who they think the best is. I like it. You like a guy rattling off his double-double numbers. Come on, bro. You're Magic Johnson.

You don't need to do that. You know what? Actually. If you think you're the man, you just say it. Yeah. That's what Michael Jordan would say. And then half the world says you're not the man. There's nothing wrong with promoting the truth.

Excuse me? You said in your sentence he's not the greatest. And then you're like, he shouldn't be bragging he is the greatest. If he thinks he's the greatest, say it. I'm the best. Steph Curry's been amazing. He's had a great career, but he hasn't caught me yet. Period.

And his story. Don't be like, hey, look at my playoff assist numbers compared to Curry. Like, that's weak. That's chicken, you know what? I would say that to Magic, and he's one of my favorite players of all time. I don't know. It sounds like he's defending himself against people saying...

That's the thing. Once you get defensive, it's like, oh, oh, maybe Curry hit her nerve here. I do think it's... I look this up, okay? 1987, Magic in his prime, him and Jabar going back to back. Do you want to guess how many teams were in the NBA in 1987? Just guess how many teams? 26.

23 teams. That's it. Virtually no international players, maybe Vladivok, a couple other guys. The league is 50 times better than it was. But Magic Johnson, to his credit, could do more than Steph. He was a better defender. He could get you, he could play center. He could get you rebounds.

He could get you point. Steph scores. He doesn't just score. Well, I mean, but that's his thing. He forces the defense to play you 30 feet from the hoop. Well, I love staff. And that opens up everything forever else. was the magic's a lot like LeBron, just not as good at athlete,

that he can kind of do whatever you needed him to do. If you needed LeBron to guard Derek Rose in his MVP season, he'd be like, okay, I'm going to shut down Derek Rose. Or I can guard two guard. LeBron's the great Swiss Army knife in league history. Magic second. Michael Jordan wasn't guarding fours and centers. Magic could.

LeBron can guard fours. Steph Curry is the fastest score in league history, and I think that has today remarkable value. But Magic's argument is, what did you need from me tonight to win? I'll give you that. Steph can't make that argument. Did you just need 12 points? Because we've got James Worthy and Karima, Bill Jabbar.

Clay Thompson, Draymond, Green, Kevin Durant. Whoa, Clay Thompson, in the same sentence as Jabbar and Woody? Clay Thompson was for about a seven-year run, arguably outside of D. Wade, the best two guard in the league. Oh, wait a man. He wasn't? Best two guard? It went Wade, Clay and Bradley Beal. He was up there.

but I would need to dig into the numbers. Oh, boy. Okay, two or three. I mean, I'm sorry. Steve Kerr, Kevin Durant, Clay Thompson, best defensive player in 25 years, always had a good... Wait a minute.

Curry won before KD got there. I'm not banging up. With KD. And after. This is only an argument for one or two. I know. I'm not saying Magic won Curry 11. I'm saying if you're going to get into one, two,

I'm okay with either argument. Magic's greatest argument is... He walks in and... says, hey, fellas, what do you need tonight? I'll give you anything you need. NBA finals, you want me to guard Caldwell Jones? Okay. Whereas Steph is like, guys, when Steph's off, shooting game is off.

Not the same dude. What are we doing? So what happened in Game 7 in Sacramento in the first round when Steph walked in? Steph dropped 50. The greatest game 7 performance ever, bro. Until I think Tatum had a couple more a little week later. But I don't know. I don't want to seem like a magic.

Hater, I'm getting risky here out here in L.A. I trashed the Rams all summer. And now I'm saying Magic's not the go. I'm just saying they're both. I can see my phone lighting up. Magic was a physical outlier. Six-nine point. Magic is the best ball handler I've ever seen.

He doesn't even make sense. Magic was the size of a power forward and he was the league's best passer. He was awesome in transition. But ball handling? Have you seen Curry before the games? Nobody does those dribbling drills. Oh, my God. I can hear the gross.

Let's move on. Let's move on. I'm moving out of L.A. I don't want you're toxic. I can't be around you. You've reduced magic to some power forward who could dribble kind of good in transition. All right. Let's get to Justin Fields and the Bears. They're 0 and 3. They're underdogs. They're underdogs at home to the hapless Broncos. Justin Fields is saying all the right things about adversity, Colin. The adversity I go through is going to make me stronger.

So, you know, as a person and as a player. I just got to look at the bright side of things and think of yourself as going through adversity for a reason. Well, we'll see. He just sounds depressed. He sounds a little depressed, yeah. Well, he's, I understand it. He's been depressing. So he should be depressed.

If you're a body language expert and you look at that video and listen, you're just like, this guy, something's good. Listen, the difference between he and Zach Wilson is that's Zach Wilson's fault. The defense is good. They have, in Chicago, there's a love. of fingers to point. Okay. I do think Justin has struggled. But the difference, because I think Zach and Justin are very similar. Got an arm, got mobility. They don't appear to see the field great and they just aren't as accurate as I'd like. The difference is that's on Zach. They have elements to be a playoff team. What does Chicago do well beyond Justin Fields? The defense

stinks. I don't love their drafting. That there needs to be one of those. They don't do anything well. You can't blame it all on Justin. But he's a quarterback. and he hasn't been good. With Zach, you put Kirk Cousins in, not a huge fan, but you put Kirk Cousins in. It's a highly functional team tomorrow. I think we need like a documentary on that quarterback class. Wasn't that the COVID year? Wasn't it in 2020?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Lawrence. By the way, Lawrence, not been great this year. But like that entire class, maybe they just never really had a chance. They never had a shot. Like, it's over. They didn't play enough college football. Let's be real.

Zach Wilson is not going to be a starter in this league. That's obvious. Trey Lance, is he ever going to start any more games? I don't know. It's not like an emergency situation. It doesn't look good for Mack Jones. And you know we know more about Mack than we let on sometimes. All right, final story, Lions at Lambo tonight against the pack.

Lions have won three straight, including that sweep of Aaron Rogers last year. It's a big game in the NFC North. If Detroit can open it up with the Vikings struggling, the Bears at dumpster fire, you know, I was going to bet the Packers to win the division, but I have to hold off. I don't know what's going on with the injuries. I don't feel about Goff. You're a guy. You've been a golf defender.

No, I think I think Jared's a really good player. I think that's why when I said when C.J. Stroud's comp was Goff, what it told me was adult, professional, pocket, throws a nice ball, ceiling. I've always liked Goff. Dad was a pro athlete. I think he's a really good player. I think there's a way that he has to. to play. He has to have a second beat

some time, but he sees the field. Beautiful ball. I always said he was Matt Ryan with a better arm, and I think Matt Ryan's really good. So, I don't know, I like him. I do like him. And I think they're going to win tonight. I mean, if the Lions win tonight, like, I mean, they're really have a stranglehold

on that division early. And then you start to wonder, like, I mean, what's the ceiling for this team? Can the Lions win a playoff game? Why not? Why not? Exactly. In the NFC, why not? Yeah. I don't know how they lost to Seattle. a couple weeks ago. Well, it was overtime. They had a lead.

So it was one of those games where that was a very much a go-either-way game. And if I recall, there was a huge plate of Tyler Lockett. I forget. Lockett abused them. And that's the thing. Their secondary ain't good. You know that. Listen, it's just less than a pizza money bet.

This is like an ice cream money bet because we don't know about the injuries. So I'll take Packers. I'll take Lions. There you go. J-Mac with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. heard lie news. I did think it was interesting earlier today. You know, we're all making these

judgments on quarterbacks, and we know the coach matter, the coordinator matters. I mean, Justin Herbert's excellent. Clearly, Callan Moore has been a jet fuel for Justin Herbert, who we knows highly productive and talented. So all this stuff matters. You know, San Francisco, it's easy to say, well, it's Kyle Shanahan, but Traylant struggled, right? Like they gave him a couple starts. It didn't look right, didn't feel right. The thing with Brock Purdy is, is he a franchise quarterback? Nobody thinks he's a top seven guy, but

you miss in the draft all the time. My question with Brock Purdy is, could he ever be somewhere between like 12 and 16? And I think the answer is yes. Now, it may be closer to 16, but I think he's good enough because I think that's where kind of Garoppolo is and Garoppolo got to a Super Bowl and led Patrick Mahomes entering the fourth quarter. If Garoppolo hits on a deep throw, Mahomes doesn't win that Super Bowl. Garoppel probably does. So it's like, is Garapol, as long as he's not getting paid anything,

and you can retain all that talent around him, could he be 12 to 16? Greg Kossel last hour on, you know, kind of what he's seeing from Brock Purdy. I actually watched his tape for three years at Iowa State. You know that I'm a big believer in coaching. I'm a big believer in the marriage between quarterback and coach. No one will argue that Brock Purdy is a high, high level talent. The one thing that he's clearly shown is he's clearly shown that mentally he's a very strong player. He sees it correctly and he makes the right kinds of throws. Now he'll miss some by the way, but I was very happy to see him come back this past. week. He was not really good the week prior, and he was actually very poor on third down. The Giants blitzed him a ton, and he handled it really, really well and made some excellent throws against the blitz. But I think you have a great marriage of coach, quarterback, and he's on a great team. Yeah. And I also think we tend to, really, if you think about it, you, me, everybody, we all agree on quarterbacks. We know who the top six, seven, eight are.

and then we know kind of in that cousin's deck the next seven, eight. And my question is can pretty be in that group? And I think he can middle to bottom part of that group. And then there's 10 teams in the league that would probably like to upgrade their quarterback. Eight love their quarterback. Eight to 10 are currently content with their quarterback but would take a phone call. And then eight are looking for a new guy. I mean, next year you're going to have five minimum, six to seven quarterbacks drafted first.

round. And that's kind of what the league's always been. I mean, if you think about seven or eight elite guys, about 10 guys that teams, 10 to 12 guys, you know, you're currently happy with and can win with. You're not sure if they can carry the team probably not. I think Purdy falls into that. And then you have a bunch of teams next year. I mean, we all know Chicago's going to draft a quarterback. We know that. Arizona, I like Josh Dobbs a little bit, right? But they'll probably draft a quarterback. You know, you can look around. Washington of Sam Hal. just isn't the guy, they're probably going to look at a quarterback and should. We all kind of know.

I tend to think New England, we're hearing some stuff on Mack Jones, and Jay Mack and I are not going to talk about it on the air because we don't want to yet. We're hearing things that aren't, you just alluded to it. We're not going to get into the specifics. We're just hearing stuff that isn't great. Is that fair? Don't put me on camera for that. Let's change topics.

Let's go Packers, Lions. I'll just be, people will think, I'm a hater. No, I'm not going to go there. All right. Also, I want to bring something up I talked about because we're going to go in a second, talk Packers Lions with somebody who's covered the Packers for years. Also, I heard something yesterday, and I don't want to get too specific because it's got to play out. But USC plays Colorado. It's on Fox. It's going to be a great game. Caleb Williams is the number one pick, period. Everybody knows it.

that Caleb and his dad have voiced concerns a month ago to five weeks ago, roughly, about not having any say where he gets drafted. I am told he makes, you know, your five, six, seven, whatever, NIL. It ain't going backwards. He and Shadur Sanders could make 10 or more next year. And if that's the case, you get an insurance policy. I've been told there are places that Caleb Williams in the NFL, is very concerned about.

And they are organizations that have a lousy history of developing quarterbacks and protecting quarterbacks. You can figure out who they are, Chicago. I'm just saying, for the record, Elway, Eli, if you're going to support them, got to support Caleb. So I think the NIL, which was seen as the end of college football, what it's doing is not for very many players, but a star quarterback. By the way, there's a quarterback at Penn State who is eligible to get drafted,

not this draft, the following draft. He's going to be the number one pick. It looks like, I mean, we knew Caleb last year. This kid's great. Hey, you're sitting there and it's like, yeah, I've seen that organization, butcher three quarterbacks. I'm not going there. I know everybody will push back on that.

I'm just hearing there is. there is concern about some of these NFL franchises. Don't blame the kid. Ownership groups, front offices that don't elevate, protect, or create successful quarterbacks. And there's a handful of them that have a history of doing it wrong. Live in L.A., it's the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Paulie Fusco here with Donie Fusco. Yo. Of course you know us as the host of the number one rated show in all the sports talk, the Polly and Tony Fusco show. Yeah. Now the suits at Fox Sports Radio gave us this air time because they wanted us to tell you how great our show is. Why? Yeah, instead of us doing that, let us just let our millions of fans do the talking. Yeah, play the tape. You don't know crap about sports.

I mean, why am I even on this crap? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's the wrong tape. Wrong tape. Just forget that. Look, listen to the Paulian Tony's show. Fusco show on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered, comedy. conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts Show on the Eye Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we

including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important. important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure you play this week's Fox Super 6 free-to-play game.

Download the Fox Sports app and enter for free for a chance to win your share of $10,000 in weekly cash prizes. I like this. I have a favorite pick, by the way. I'm not going to give it away, Jay Mack. You and I now, after you had a kind of a little bump in the road, and I, had a very strong week, very competitive around here. You can feel the tension.

I'm okay with it. So Tyler Dunn won our first and only Big J Journalism Award years ago. He used to cover the Packers for the Milwaukee Journal. Sentinel covered the bills for the Buffalo News. He's worked at Bleacher Report. Then he decided, I'm going to start my own business. Very well-connected, founder-writer at go-longtd.com. Go-longtD.com.

So it's interesting watching the Packers last week. It's the youngest roster, Tyler, in the league. And I did feel there was a disconnect between like his Farrv got old with his teammates and Brady got old. And with Aaron, he's this sage, you know, doing ayahuasca. It's the youngest roster in the league. And here comes Jordan. And I wonder if it does feel like for Matt LaFleur, it feels a little bit like, okay, this is my team a little bit now. You're sourcing your thoughts on young team, young quarterback.

and Matt now has the final say. Coaches want the say. It feels different to me. Yeah, I think refreshing is the word that comes up again and again and again with with players, with people around the team. Heck, I was just talking to Brett Farb about this. We do a podcast at GoLog and he said, toward the end of my career,

I really couldn't relate to a lot of the guys. So there's that element to it in the locker room, being a 37, 38 year old player surrounded by 22 and 23 year. olds. But when do you get to the nitty gritty? When you get to the football, look, this was an offense that was two playbooks within one. Mark Wells Valde Scaling told that to me himself. And it's a beautiful thing when he's winning MVP's. When the play is coming in from Matt LaFleurr, and Aaron Rogers sees something in a defense, he kind of has that telepathic connection with the Devante Adams, with Randall Kod before he was washed up. And you just kind of go. You just kind of improvise

that doesn't work with three rookie receivers. So yeah, I heard last year, I just heard. of this last week. A play would come in in 2022 and Aaron would say, you know, screw this. I'm going to do my own thing. And the season kind of fell apart. Yeah. You're dropping back to pass with an old quarterback double the amount of times. Aaron Jones and A.J. Dillon got it for a three game stretch. To your point, this is Matt LaFleur's offense. It's refreshing. And Jordan Love is a hell of a lot better than anybody thought. Yeah. And let's talk about that. I don't have a definitive opinion. Now, Greg Kossel was on an hour ago and I trust him. And Greg said he looks very comfortable.

He looks like a starting quarterback. He's going to be a little, I would say, all these young quarterbacks. They're just hot, cold, good, half, bad half. And Jordan's missed on some throws. But what do your sources say about, you just said he was better than people thought? He's better than I thought. I mean, are you hearing that that everybody's like quietly, pleasantly surprised by a little bit of an it factor? You know, I was just talking about this with Luke Musgrave in the locker room after the Atlanta loss.

and it's gloomy, it's dupy. This is a game they should have won. And a lot of those defensive players were upset. And he was excited. He's like, this is the start of something really special. And granted, he wasn't around the year before, but he said that Jordan Love is a quarterback who, if you make a mistake, if you drop a pass,

it's not like he's going to ignore you the rest of the game. So whether he was referencing Aaron Rogers or not, it's telling because that's what happened in the past. Right. Christian Watson drops that pass in the opener. That ball's not going his way for a while. Jaden Reed drops a touchdown in this New Orleans game. Guess who's making the big play late in that game?

It's Jaden Reed up the right sideline, diving out for it. So I think that that relatability is a huge factor, but also it's the mental toughness. Right, 17 nothing in the fourth quarter, completely unfazed. This is somebody who's been mentally tough his entire life. Back to tragedy in high school through college, football mental toughness. I mean, that last year at Utah State. Injuries, graduation, he was down to nothing running for his life. Brian Goudigan to Matt LaFleauiore, they did their homework on this guy.

They knew that if he's got this metal toughness, we can kind of work around that. We can develop the accuracy. We can develop the footwork, the mechanics. And for three years, that's exactly what he's done with Steve Calhoun out there in California. I mean, the plays you see on the field is stuff that he's simulated on a practice field for three years. I don't know why more teams don't do this. If you've got a Hall of Fame quarterback and he's in his late 30s, just draft a quarterback. Let him sit, let him learn.

and you don't have the Justin Fields, Zach Wilson, insert young quarterback who's ruined right away effect. You have such great insight. It's such a great point. And I want the audience. I want to double down on it. And it sounds like a shot on Aaron, but it was his personality. If you dropped a ball early, Christian Watson, you were ghosted. And to your point, young quarterback's like, dude, I need you. I'm coming back to you. It's a very good point. One final thought in the Packers, before we move on to something with the bills, is that, you know, Christian Watson, David Boktiari. One of the things that could derail this is Boktiari. Watson's going to be fine.

Young guys heal quickly. Old offensive linemen, don't. Any concerns about Boktiari, a tremendous player, age, injuries, like that would derail this offensive line. Your thoughts on that? They've managed pretty well without him, right? I mean, I think that to have a 12-point lead in the fourth quarter against Atlanta, right, on the road, I was there.

loud. They got Samuel L. Jackson videos blaring on the screen. They should have won that game and they didn't have their left tackle. But for an entire season, for even a three, four game stretch, you're right. It would be difficult. That's a strange situation. I'm not going to pretend to know, like I know exactly what's going on with David Bactiari, but we thought it might have been the field turf thing. We know he's really tight with Aaron Rogers and he said this was going to be a rebuilding year. If you're starting Jordan Love, well, this looks like a playoff team. Who knows? They need him. And I think we have to take him at his word that he is he is injured and he's working through things with his knee and they probably just have to be as smart as they can right now because they're they're going

to want him in December and hopefully January you covered the bills for years recent articles by you there's pressure in buffalo but it's not on the star quarterback tyler who is who is it on it's on sean McDermott right there there's nobody else to blame defensively and this is a really good defense. It's been a really good defense. Look at their rankings at the end of the year. But they're feasting on those those F to like B minus quarterbacks. Right. When you get into the playoffs and what do we see? We see Deshawn Watson leading a comeback in the wildcard game. Patrick Mahomes in the AFC championship game. The 13 seconds game, that's an indictment of the head coach and the decisions made.

And then Cincinnati last year, look, he got it then through the Demar Hamlin situation. You can't take that away from Sean McDermott. But that team just didn't show up that game specifically on defense so what happens leslie fraser leaves under bizarre circumstances was he pushed out did he step away it's hard to really take the bills for at their word it's it's really murky there but we know this sean mcdermott is calling the defense now this has been sean mcdermis defense from the get go and against elite quarterbacks in the playoffs they they belly flopped it's been ugly so to a tongue of iola Mike McDaniel, Tyree killed, Jalen Wado, Rahimoster. They're coming to your house this Sunday.

And I think this is such a great early test for the bills. Now, we know it's your defense, John McDermott. Let's see how you do against an elite offense and an elite quarterback. If they show up, then, yeah, maybe it does end differently in January. If not, man, now you've got to deal with the Bengals, the Chiefs, and the dolphins for quite a while. finally tannerhill cousins wents have all been rumored to the jets i think tannihill actually makes sense

he's an athletic enough guy that with a shaky pass blocking line he can move a little bit in the tennessee team one star receiver run game defense defensive coach feels a bit like the jets do you think erin would be erin was always interesting he would be offended by stuff or bothered by stuff that i wouldn't think he'd care about if they brought a tannihill in Do they think it bother Aaron? Look, when you trade for Aaron Rogers, you know what you're trading for, right? You're not just trading for a player to operate the quarterback position.

I mean, he's the assistant general manager. I've got a story on Calais Campbell tomorrow would go along. I mean, Aaron was texting him all off season trying to convince him to sign with the judges. This is what he was doing. This is a huge allure of Aaron Rogers that he could bring in these other players. He's not just a quarterback is my point. So yeah, I think that there could be some feelings heard. if you're bringing in a quarterback who may have a chance to play beyond this season when

Aaron Rogers said he wants to come back from this Achilles in 2024, regardless of what said, it could be an awkward situation. But at the same time, Robert Salah, he can't stand there at the podium and keep saying all of these flowery things about Zach Wilson. Right. Not when you're in that locker. I'm looking your players in the eye talking about accountability. And then that quarterback's not held accountable.

I get it. You want to support your quarterback. support your guy, but at some point, you've got to try to win. You can't just give up on a football season. There's too many proud players in that locker, especially on the defensive side of the ball that are listening to every word. And they don't want to just give up on this season. So what does that mean?

It probably means you've got to act out of a little desperation if you're the Jets. You've got to pull a trade. You've got to give up a little bit more than you otherwise would because you shouldn't just in September concede. Tanking, we could talk about tanking for hours. I don't think the Jets are a team that should be entering that conversation. Tyler Dunn, well connected, bills, Packers, Aaron, great seeing you, go longtd.com. Great insight.

Upgraded the studio. Look great, buddy. Appreciate you coming on. Hey, thank you, Colin. Anytime. Yeah, the one thing I take away with that, it's such a really good point. I thought it was really good that, you know, Aaron plays Minnesota. It's week one.

And Christian Watson first play over the top drops. that kind of ghost him, doesn't trust him. That's kind of Aaron's personality. Brady had a little bit of that. He would lose trust. Jordan loves like, these guys are all my age. Like, we're the same dude. I make bad throws.

They drop balls. I thought that was interesting that he went back to that receiver late in the game. He's like, dude, I need you. I don't know pre-snap yet, everything. I like that about Green Bay. That's a great point. And I remember early on in my tenure here, I had a drop early, very early.

It wasn't a Christian Watson level drop. It was a drop. We came right back to you. And you came right back to me. And I was happy, man. I felt good about it. I felt good about our rapport and our connection. Yep.

It matters. Listen, Brady never got this tag because he won so much. But Tom Brady was basically a trust guy. I mean, Edelman came on our show last week. He's like, you got to build trust for three years with Tom over practice. And it's like, if Tom ghosted you and he did with guys, like, I'm out, Aaron did it. The difference is Aaron's more vocal. He's a little more polarizing.

Didn't win the big games as much. But I never. banged on Aaron too much for like, you know, Brady, Peyton Manning was the same way. Peyton Manning was like, listen, dude, if I can't trust you, I'm not, that's why he had his guys, as Dallas Clarks, his Harrison, like he had his guys that he trusted. So did Aaron, but it was more public. You know, Aaron talks more. He gives us more.

All right. Tyler Dunn, Greg CoSell, Rick Buecker all stopped by today. Lots of information. Lines at the Packers tonight. J-Mack likes Green Bay, I'll roll with Detroit. First things first. They're on fire. They are ready.

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