The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd Saturday Special Podcast: 08/04/2018

Episode Date: August 4, 2018

Colin talks with former NFL Scout and host of the "3 & Out" Podcast John Middlekauff about the potential dysfunction with the Raiders, the rookie QBs he's most excited about and if the 49ers are unhappy with Jimmy Garoppolo in this exclusive podcast. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis come in to him, he's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome everybody to our Saturday podcast. Sometimes we do sports.

Sometimes we cover the media. We had the author of Robin Williams, the late Robin Williams book. Last week, we deep dive into the D.B. Cooper story. Today we go back to sports for a former NFL scout, somebody I trust, a radio host in the Bay Area for years. He's also one of my podcast network guys, the host of Three and Out podcast on the Heard Podcast Network, and I ensure you that if you listen to this podcast over the next six months during football season, you and me are going to get smarter, and he's my friend John Middlethoff joining us. All right, let's start with the Bay Area because you've got great connections there.

of the first to report that Khalil Mack and John Gruden aren't speaking. Now, Gruden's playing this off like, hey, I'm a coach. I got other players to deal with. But Kalil Mack's side of the story, are they telling a different story? You know, I think it's kind of a complicated matter. You know, the Raiders paid a quarterback a lot of money a year ago, and that was before Gruden, and any time you do that, it, you know, takes up a lot of your cap. I think Gruden coming in, you know him from the old place. He's waited a lot. time to do this, and it almost feels like he's kind of taking a stand. Like, this is, this is my team now. It's going to be my way or the highway. I just think it's a complicated matter because

Khalil Mack has been a three years running team captain, all pro pro bowler. He's their best player. Derek's their most important player because he's the quarterback and, you know, it's a quarterback league. We all get that. But Khalil is, is their best player. And honestly, it might not be that close. He's a pretty flawless football player. But as we saw last night in the Hall of Fame game, or a couple nights ago, the sport has changed. And I know you're kind of theorizing about offensive players being paid more. The game is much more, you know, built and offensive-oriented now. The rules revolve around that. So you have to wonder, Gruden being an offensive guy, if he's just hesitant to allocate, that's what I've heard from the beginning. He's just, he's hesitant

allocate a lot of money for this guy. That would mean two players on their team for the next several years would take up about 30% of their salary cap. And I also heard from people around that he likes cheap players. And this was before the Kaleel Mack situation ever happened. He likes older veterans, which is clear, the guys he signed. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, I asked a capologist on another team last night, what your gut feeling? What do you think happens? And he says, I think that they end up getting something done. But I'm not confident. it. So I'd say it's a coin flip right now. If I had to bet, he plays this year just on his fifth year option, and then they deal with it after the season. I think it's problematic.

Gruden was a big success in Oakland. Then he went to Tampa, where the last four or five years he struggled, then he was a TV star. And I've said this. Even in baseball, Terry Collins has gone 12 years in Major League Baseball, comes back and can get a team to a World Series. It's not just the schematics. The PAT is different. The rules are different. There's no huddles. Nobody uses a fullback except the Patriots, but it's also locker rooms have changed. If you say 10 years ago, no politics in here, guys, it's understood. If you say no politics in here, guys, half your locker room says, you're racist. I just wonder, he's got a 10-year deal.

That tells me he's the power guy. Is it possible Gruden, the schematic part he'll fix? But he's an old school guy, and we're seeing coaches in locker rooms unravel. How do you think that plays? You know, I got a couple buddies on the staff, and they say one of the things that have just been mind-blowing these, you know, during the OTAs and even during training camp, is just how dynamic he is with the players, not just the scheme, but just interacting with guys and meetings. So that would be the only, I'd push back a little bit there, Colin. I'm with you. I think some of the economics of it, and you're seeing it with Cleo Mac, he might be a little, not outdated might be the wrong word, but just, like you said, you take a long break for me.

anything, you're just not as comfortable with the given, you know, parameters of the way business is done now. But I do think when he gets in front of players, you know, Peyton Manning showed up a couple days ago at practice. Why? Because they're just tight. They're just good buddies. And a lot of high-level guys, David Shaw fired up there. He's tight with Gruden. Gruden's relationships in this league and the way people, you know, Revere might be strong, but I mean, Peyton Manning spoke glowingly about him. I think that's going to be okay, but the money issue, which this is, the NFL's turned into like Wall Street. It's why the smart guys, Howie Rosman, Parag Marathi with the Niners, you are wheeling

dealing financially. And that's the one thing the Raiders have always struggled with. They're the most cash poor, probably organization in all of the NFL, which relatively speaking is still not that bad. But still, I mean, to get a Khalil-Mack deal done, I wonder if you factor in Gruden's just time away, the economics, the boom, the the lack of cash reserves in the franchise, just kind of a bad combination.

John Middlkoff, Bay Area Radio host, part of our three and out heard podcast network, former NFL scout. Let's shift now to the 49ers. It's not the end of the world, but Jimmy Garoppelow franchise quarterback doesn't sound right next to Porn Star. I said like orange juice and toothpaste,

don't go together. tuna fish and ice cream. I wonder about this, though. You know, Garapolo is the kind of guy in New England sometimes. He made bad decisions. He scrambles too much. He had a high interceptions. Last year, he can throw picks.

Now it's the porn star thing. I think, you know, here's what I worry about Garoppolo, is that Lynch and Shanahan obviously said something to him because he came out the next day and was like, culpable. How bad was it in the room? How do you think they, you've got people on staffs everywhere in this league. What was the fallout? I don't think they loved it. You know, I mean, how could you? You just gave them $135 million. It's just, it's not a great look. Now, I had also heard Colin just from other people around the league and just some people, some like in the agent

community that thought about repping them back in the day, that this, he might kind of date those type women. You know, I don't think this is just, you don't just show up at 26, 27 years old with a porn star. It's not probably out of left field for him. But I do think, you know John Lynch a little bit. Yeah. He played this league for a long time and is as high of a level guy as the NFL has ever produced. I think he's the perfect type guy to just, even more than Kyle, just have a one-on-one situation, almost player to player, you know, like, and just kind of helped Jimmy. The other big positive, I think big picture why, you know, I don't think it'll quite like this is going to be a common occurrence or, you know, Jimmy's going to be just dating porn stars is like going to become a thing. Because I do think he's really close to his family.

And if you're close to your parents, your mom and dad, especially your mom, I mean, is that something you consistently want her to see? I know he's not financially dependent on them anymore, but they're still a big part of his life. But I do think for the first time, like the interceptions, you often say, they don't, I mean. that's a good thing. I don't know if you saw Andy Reid the other day. He's like, I love Patrick Mahomes throwing picks in the office, you know, in preseason in these training camp, right? That's a point of this whole deal. So Kyle likes that aggressiveness. But for the first time, maybe a little bit of a red flag, but I do think 99% they are really, really comfortable with Jimmy and everything that Jimmy brings with him as a franchise quarterback. We'll get back to John in a second. The truth is most of us are brushing our team. teeth wrong. Not for long enough, forget to change our brush on time. That's because most brands focus on selling flashy gimmicks rather than better brushing, but not quip. So what makes KIP so different? Okay, for starters, KIP is an electric toothbrush that's a fraction of the cost

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I've said I feel he's going to be Tim Tebow. I do think he's a better prospect than Tim Tebow. I never bought Tebow as an NFL quarterback. I think Lamar has a chance to work in this league. I'm not sure of it like I am Sam Darnold or Andrew Luck, but I think there's a chance he could succeed. But here's the similarity. They're both, they're new.

They're fun. They're flashy. Their organizations, Denver and Baltimore are getting frustrated with the current head coach. And they have a history of winning. Kyle Lorton, Flacco. You know, just too many mistakes, just kind of guys. Certainly Flacco now is kind of just a guy in the NFL. But I think both Tebow and Lamar were over-drafted.

I wouldn't have drafted Tebow. Lamar, to me, was like a second or early third-round guy. But now he got Twitter and social media. Tebow wasn't really part of that. And Tebow, by year two, took over the city. And his stats were still terrible. I watched Lamar, and I'm like, not even close to being ready to start in this league.

But I think with all the other things we have, the ancillary issues with the coach, the pressure, and flaco, A, what did you make of Lamar? And two, do you think my Tebow comparison has any merit? Yeah, I mean, I think there was a whole different element with Tebow, with the religious, the South, the cult-like following. It was just maybe unlike anything, you know, maybe you've seen it in my time around the league.

I've never seen anything quite like that. And coming from the program in which he came from, it was just the perfect NFL type program at the time with a bunch of players that made them look better than obviously he ever was. To me, Lamar is an elite athlete. It's just can he throw the ball well enough? My takeaway from the game was just knowing during this period of time for the next month of how coaches who they like putting quarterbacks with

you know, to make them look good, make them look bad, or where they're at within the offense? Like, how is Lamar Jackson going to beat out RG3 for the backup? And I know you, and I fall in the same place. I've never been the biggest RG3 guy. He's nowhere near what he was that rookie season once he hurt his knee. But he is on a different level just playing the position than Lamar Jack. Oh, God, not even close.

Yes, absolutely. So if you're going to go into week one, you know, the reality of a quarterback, he can go down on any given snap and then your backup has to play. like how is Lamar Jackson if he doesn't know the offense and not even just not knowing the offense? If he can't function within the offense, he's throwing picks and you can't run the ball every play, I don't know how he beats out RG3. That was my takeaway from the game.

It's like, Lamar Jackson's going to be the three. And if you remember, it's different scenario. But remember when Michael Vic came back with Andy Reed, it took him a year, you know, just now it's completely different. I'm just using the scenario of kind of more of a running quarterback that they had some special plays for, which I think they want to do that with Lamar Jackson. But, you know, it's going to take him a minute to just to be the backup. It probably has not happened in week one. Yeah, I think people forget how bad Tebow was. And I watched Lamar Jackson, and my takeaway is, oh, good God,

he's not close. He can only go to the right side. He was three for three to the right, oh, for three to the left. His first four plays were scrambles. He looked really nervous, which he'll get over that. But I mean, I just think he's such a, I think he's a, I call him a project. I don't think he's a prospect right now. Sam Darnold's a prospect. I think Lamar's a project, meaning he shouldn't play for a year. But you start looking at that schedule in November, December, and the Steelers are pulling away, hardball's on the hot seat. I think it's going to be fascinating to watch. Now, we have five quarterbacks going the first round. I like Darnold. I've said that over and over. But the Jets are one of three teams in the NFL without a quarterback coach. Their offensive line is one of the

weaker in the NFL. I think Donald's going to be very, very choppy. And people in New York are going to say, hey, Sequin Bartley looks great. Darnold looks terrible. That's my prediction for the year. What do you think Darnal does? Because he will play this year. What will it look like? I think he'll probably play sooner than later.

There is something special about Sam Donald. If you just watch a given game, you might not see it. If you just check out the box scores, you might not see it. But if you've watched his entire career, there is definitely an it factor with, with Sam Donald. Now, analytic people hate that. Like, how do you quantify it? Well, you don't. You just, you watch them and you kind of know. Now, not saying he hasn't had good stats, but I think, I actually think the Jet, and I know you've been on this for a little bit with the Patriots, this is probably one of their weaker rosters of the Belichick Brady's, you know, dynasty. Yes.

Bray's, he turned 41 on Friday, 41 years old. Eventually, he's either going to get hurt or he's going to decline. Now, it's hard to keep saying that because it has not even looked like it's going to happen at all. But let's just say Brady had a significant injury. The Patriots would be in major trouble. I think the Jets, their defense is going to be solid. I'm with you. Their offense is a little sketchy. But if you inserted Sam Darnold, then you were like four and four, and Brady was out for the season. I don't think it's crazy. Again, it would take a Brady injury, but they could not win games with Brian Hoyer. So the Patriots would be screwed. I think the Jets are. just a team to kind of keep an eye on if something were, you know, to happen with Tom Brady.

And the other quarterback, I mean, how is Baker not going to be starting by like the end of September? Cleveland, they're going to be so desperate. You know what? And here's the thing. Hugh Jackson will be able to push back because they'll go 0 and 2 to the Steelers and the Saints and Hugh Jackson will say, just give us the Jets. And Hugh will win the first push.

And then they'll beat the Jets. Then they'll go to Oakland and lose and be one in three. Baltimore going to Cleveland, rival in division. That's when I think Jimmy Haslam, the owner comes in and says, okay, I let you win the argument two weeks ago. I think he's going to start. Baker Mayfield's going to start week five at home, Baltimore, one and three, coming off a loss on the road to the Raiders. And it begins. And, again, I think Baker's an NFL quarterback.

I just think he's more Case Keenham than Drew Brees. Where do you see him? Yeah, I'd probably definitely. not. I mean, Drew Brees is an all-time outlier, you know, but I do think that Baker could be better than Case Keenham of what Case Keenum was last year, which was pretty damn good. I talk to people around the league. I've talked to people around Cleveland. Clearly, some of the quotes coming out of Cleveland. I saw a quote from someone like with the Steelers that just like, we are taking the Brown seriously. I do think their roster on paper, especially offence, is pretty damn good. So if Baker

does get inserted, unlike Sam Darnold, that would be. go into a gunfight with probably a dull knife whenever he's thrown in there. Baker would have Jarvis Landry, the Young Tide End, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson. They do have some, if Josh Gordon ever came back, they do have weapons, you know. So it's not the worst. I've seen a lot worse. I thought Derek Carr's rookie year, I think he had the worst wide receiving core in the history of the NFL.

So Baker would be in somewhat of a position to have a little success. John Middilcoff, finally, you're in the Bay Area. You're a former NFL scout. I feel strongly enough to put you on my herd podcast. network. It's called three and out. I love your stuff. I want to ask you one basketball question. I actually said I thought LeBron to the Lakers, the timing's perfect because I'm sensing fatigue within the dynasty known as the Warriors. Houston gave them problems. They lost games by 40, 30, 20, multiple times regular season, and they're bringing on Boogie Cousins,

and I think they're doing it because they realize you can push them around. They're getting fat and rich and happy, and they've always been kind of a suburned and skinny jeans team. I think they're going to win the championship next year, but I don't, I think it'll be Well, I don't. I pick the Celtics to beat him, but they'll win the West. Give me your thoughts on Kevin Durant's increasing random Twitter and social media insecurities. How do you view that? How is he viewed in the Bay Area?

You know, I mean, there's the core three guys, Steph, who's just beloved. I mean, he's kind of a brooky like Joe Montana status around here. It'll never be Kevin's team. And, you know, many would argue Kevin might be the slight. better player, but I still believe when Steph's on, there's, I don't know if we've ever quite seen anything like that. Clay's personality around here is just ideal. You know, I mean, he's just, he's very Bay Area, very California. And then Draymond, there's a toughness element to him that, where the Warriors play right now in Oakland that he almost represent. Now, Kevin was just this

higher guns. I think people around here don't really care. But if he was, let's say, on the thunder still or on the Lakers and he was pulling this, he'd be ripped constantly around here. I do think the Warriors had to almost treat him last year with kid gloves. You know, Steve Kerr can scream at Draymond. He can get on Steph. But they couldn't do that last year just because there was this elephant in the room that, like, could he leave, could he not? And he kind of propped up last year, but then he resigned.

And now it's not really going away again. Listen, I was born in the mid-80s. I grew up on Michael Jordan. That was a generation they took every game seriously. And then I grew up around in the Sacramento area. I remember watching Kobe and Shaq. By the time they had won like their second championship, they didn't take the regular season as seriously.

I think what the Warriors did last year in the regular season was like unlike anything we'd ever seen. They did not care. They could not have cared any less. And they're so talented, they could overcome that. I don't see how Colin, in three and four years, how they're going to take it any more seriously this year. It's just going to be a weird vibe around them because how are you expecting them to try on a random January night, you know, against the Phoenix Suns?

It's just, I don't know. It's going to be a weird season, but they're so good they can overcome it. Now the Rockets are worse. LeBron, the Lakers aren't going to be good enough. Now one of the teams in the East could clearly Boston or Philly could give them a run. But the NBA finals, everyone gets up for the NBA finals. I think the Warriors kind of know in the back of their, I mean, Steph's playing a golf tournament. a week. And they can get away with doing. I mean, this is off-season, but still, they just know

they're better than everyone else. I don't know. I see a very similar situation last year, and Colin, they're still better in Boston. Now, Boston, there's going to be an urgency to them, a chip on their shoulder to prove it. And I think Boston will have, they'll host game one in the game seven, because I think Boston knows the only way to beat the Warriors is to have games one and two in Boston and game seven in Boston, and I think the East is still weaker. So I think Boston's going to be a 62-win team, and the Warriors will sleep their way to 58. That's why I give Boston a chance. But the Warriors are like the Patriots.

They could play you in Alaska. They don't care, you know. So that's an advantage for Boston psyche, but if you were just going into the NBA finals, game one, that's not going to affect Raymond or Steph or even Kevin. Like they're, they've been around the block now. not saying that they're a lock to win in that situation, but of all the teams, you know, back to like Kobe and Shaq or LeBron and D. Wade, like they can play anywhere. Former radio host in the Bay Area, NFL Scout, host of Three and Out podcast on the HARD podcast network. Are you in the Bay Area doing regular radio?

Because I see you all the time on social media. And I watch also when I see you on the, what's that thing called, John, when you flip it on every day? Yeah, Periscope. Periscope. I don't do Periscope, but I watch you. You should start, Colin. You know, I hosted last weekend on Fox Sports Radio. I'm doing it again this weekend with Mark Willard on Sunday.

I'm on K&BR. You can hear me every so often. You can obviously, I'm all over social media. You know, you got to be in touch with the millennials, Colin. Yes, you do. John, good talking to you. Thanks, Colin. Have a good one.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the Internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy, Guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Park. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow.

Then after that game seven, Marquis come in. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.