The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Herd-Saturday Special- Will Cain, host of "Fox & Friends Weekend"

Episode Date: August 29, 2020

Colin has an in-depth conversation with Will Cain of FOX News. Will talks about why he decided to leave ESPN for the political world and the role of politics in sports. They talk about the value of having discussions with people that oppose your political leanings and some of the hidden issues with this Covid shutdown that don't get discussed Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok. On the Look Back at it podcast.

For 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians,

and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everybody. Welcome to our Saturday podcast. I've been doing this thing for several years. And we talk about everything. We bring on liberals, conservatives, actors, movie critics. And I was on Bill Maher a couple of weeks ago. And then I went to Twitter and people. People said, oh, liberal, you will not take other voices.

And I said, hey, John Goulet, give me Will Kane. I said, Will Kane works for Fox News now. Give me Will Kane. And as you know many times, folks, Jason Whitlock's been on my podcast. So Will's co-host of Fox and Friends weekend off to a roaring start, formerly ESPN, ESPN Radio. So when we first connected, it was downstairs. in the new building at ESPN. And I was going to the downstairs for makeup.

Met you. We talked. You told me about your background. And so start with this. You have now moved back into politics. Before you got to ESPN, initiate my audience here, Will. What were you doing? Immediately before I went to ESPN, I guess I was doing something very similar to you.

I was appearing on shows like Bill Maher. I had been working at CNN for five years. I was, in essence, there. conservative libertarian voice analyst of opposition at CNN. I'd been doing that for five years, and I'd also had a job at the Blaze, the independent streaming news network owned by Glenn Beck. Right before ESPN, that's what I was doing, but I was very excited to come over, talk sports, and, yeah, meet you in the basement and talk about how I made that transition. Now, why did you decide to leave the more newsy side to sports?

You know, here's the thing. I've always loved sports. I always have. I mean, since I was a kid. I've probably told this story several times, and I hope your audience hasn't heard it before. But my first real vivid memory is the 1981 NFC championship game. I mean, to this day, I remember my parents having a watching party and crying in the bathroom after Dwight Clark caught that pass from Joe Montana over Everson Walls. It has been part of my life since I was a kid and a core part of my life.

And so sports was never far removed from my attention nor my analysis. And in 2015, I just felt like I didn't want to be a part of that political conversation. It didn't feel productive. It didn't feel important. It didn't feel like I had a place in that conversation. And as we fast forward to 2020, I'm returning back to the conversation at a time when I think I do have something important to contribute. It is very, very important that I step into this arena. where ideas that are very important to who I am are now being openly debated.

So I thought you'd stay at ESPN for a long time. You'd gotten, you were on first take with Stephen Ann Max Kellerman, guys I know and like, and you were a regular on those shows, and then you had a radio show. And so I thought everything was going great. And then out of the blue one day, I'm like, Will Kane's leaving. Why? Did you, let me just ask this. Did you feel uncomfortable at what many believe is an increasingly,

left-leaning network? Was it a boss? Was it a direction? Because to me, you were one of the rising stars of the network. And then I read he's leaving. And I thought, what is going on here? You know, first of all, I appreciate you saying that about me. I was very happy at ESPN. I have no ill feelings. I never felt unwanted. Did I feel uncomfortable? I was obviously a voice in the opposition. I was a minority voice at ESPN. Not one, I believe. It's a minority voice across this country. But that's okay. I'm used to that. I'm used to being surrounded by people that I disagree with, and I actually enjoy it. You know, ESPN was going well. I was on first take. I had gotten my own radio show. And by the way, it's worth saying this. You have been a huge influence on the choices that I've made, maybe not this most latest choice. But getting a radio show at ESPN, honestly, Colin, was like my moment of arrival. The Will Kane show was everything I wanted. I had three hours to shape content, to talk about sports, not use it as a vehicle to import. my politics, but to have conversations that I loved, it just so happens that Fox News stepped in and started talking to me. At first, Colin, I wasn't that interested because I was happy. I was like, I don't think I'm going to do this. It's not something I want to do, but the more I got to know them, and honestly, the direction of the country of the last six months, four months, five months,

it really impacted my decision on what I want to be talking about every day. Will Kane joining us, formerly a co-worker at ESPN, ESPN Radio co-host of Fox and Friends weekends. Early reports are the show is doing very, very well. It is a weekend show like a Fox and Friends, but it's the weekend version that's doing very, very well. So I've always had kind of this theory about my job as a sports host. You can't totally avoid politics because politics and sports often converge. But I consider sports the freeway, and I occasionally take exits off the freeway. but I'm always mindful of returning as soon as I can back to the freeway.

Got to fill my cart with gas, grab something to eat, take the exit, talk Drew Brees, talk Kaepernick, talk NBA boycott. But then I get back on the freeway. Do you agree with that's how a sports talk show host should do it? Okay, I have several thoughts. And as you said, we haven't talked to you and I in five years. The extent that we have talked to, it was a short conversation in the hallways at ESPN. So first of all, in my estimation, and I don't go about the world in the business of brown-nosing.

It doesn't do anything for me. I have a real hard time giving gratuitous compliments when I walk my dog. When I had one in the park in Central Park, I can't return a compliment unless I mean it. Oh, your dog's so pretty. I can't say it back unless I mean. So what I'm about to say, I mean, you are the best sports talk radio guy going. And I know now radio is a term that is somewhat loose because we're doing TV, we're doing multimedia. And the reason you are so good at it is twofold.

one, you understand the business is to be interesting. I've heard you say that before. I'm not into being right business. I'm in the interesting business. And that is 100% true. Second, you understand how to frame a conversation. So that's what we talked about every day on the Will Canjo. How do you frame it?

How do you let the audience know what you're talking about? It's the difference between wallpaper and art. I can splatter paint all over a wall, right? And, you know, it's not abstract art until you put a frame around it. So put a frame around your conversation, make it interesting, and then you can do anything within those bounds. I learned a lot of that from listening to you. Now, how did I approach politics when it came in? I never, ever forgot that the audience was there to talk about sports, to hear about sports. It was inevitable at times, let's call them sociopolitical issues, made their way into sports.

When I did that, my approach was this. I didn't see it as an off-ramp because I thought some of these were too big and too important to just veer into. We had to go all the way when they got that big. But my approach was, here's my belief. This is who I am. Let me be honest with you about my biases, my belief. I don't want to hide them from you. And in response, I want to hear yours. I believe the biggest mistake that we can make is to box people out. Tell them you're wrong, you're racist, you don't belong in the conversation, and here's the way it is and you better believe it. That's not what I want to do. I want to be honest about who I was and invite everybody else to tell me how I was wrong. Yeah.

Well, you were willing to deal with conflict. Bill Marr always says that. He said, the one thing about conservatives, I appreciate, they'll come on my show and we can argue. He goes, it's very hard to get a liberal to go on a conservative show and do the same. So what you were basically doing is inviting conflict and you're comfortable with it. And not everybody is comfortable with that. Some people debate in comfortable spaces. Some are willing to debate in uncomfortable spaces.

So good for you. I don't think a lot of people, Will Kane joining us, are willing to do that. So, hey, Colin, here's why I was comfortable doing that. I know who I am. Yeah. I know what I believe. There's not going to be any surprises in the road. I've fought this stuff through and I know who I am to the core.

So there's no like booby trap that's going to get sprung on me in a debate and oh my God, all of a sudden, will's a racist. No, I know how I live my life and the ideas I believe in. So therefore, I'm very comfortable going into any conversation with someone who is conversing with me or debating with me in good faith. Yeah, it's, you know, it's an interesting world. When I was at ESPN, I felt the last year got a little political, but we didn't talk politics much, much.

Obama came on my show twice. I thought I leaned left. I've always felt like I'm a left-leoner socially, fiscally, more of a moderate to a right-leener. And then I came to Fox, and the first year I was at Fox, everybody was like, wow, you're really conservative. And I'm like, okay, now both sides hate me. And then now recently, people say, I'm woke and I'm way left. And I have said this privately.

I have not said it publicly. But I was always the kid in high school. I was an athlete, quarterback athlete. And I was in a rural high school, a lot of fights. You know, it was just, it was small town America. I was always the peacemaker. I was always like, guys, don't get in fights. Don't get kicked out of school.

We got a game Friday. You got to be here. I was always the peacemaker. I can name the fights I broke up. even though as a smart aleck, I was always seeking kind of resolve or peace among kids who wanted to fight. And what I have told people, and I'll tell you this, I don't think I've ever said this on the air, I've become a little more left in the last year because I feel we have conflict, and we do have a president that has, I guess the words weaponize social media at times.

Now, Trump's argument is, hey, you guys aren't treating me fair, so I'm going to use this platform as my voice. I get that argument because I do think when Trump, it becomes very personal, not about policy, just about the person. But I do think I have moved left, and I go back to my seventh, eighth, ninth grade years in high school, is that when I feel conflict and I feel divide, I feel like I should offer peace. And so I do think in the last year, I've been more pro athlete than pro-GM.

So that's how I feel. Now, I don't think it's changed how I think about other issues, but maybe just if you would address that, that I do think we are divided, and I have found myself on more than one occasion feeling like what we need now is less arguing, more listening, and a little more kumbaya. So, okay, I have a couple of thoughts on that.

I've never thought of you as on the left. I've never thought of, I've seen you as somewhat unpredictable, somewhat independent. I've never thought of you as in one camp or the other, to be quite honest. Do you think that your approach over the last, as you said, six months to a year? And hearkening back to who you were from a kid being a peacemaker, I'm just asking you this out of curiosity. Do you think that's at all driven by a desire to be liked? Like, it's important to me not to be the bad guy here. I want everybody to get along. So let me see if I can find the ground where, you know, we can come out of this unscathed.

Do you think that influences you at all? Boy, I don't, I think everybody, well, first of all, I think everybody wants to be liked at some level. You want to be liked by some level. And now that I ask you that question, you're pretty tolerant of people coming after you. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's a good question. I think I've always wanted to be liked. I think I've always wanted to be liked.

Yeah, I mean, is some of that being like, I mean, when I prepare a show like you, I want to be interesting. So people say, oh, I love that. Oh, that was really clever. That makes me happy. So, yeah, at some level, is some of it to be liked. But I don't worry. What I don't worry about, Will, is I'm supposed to be interviewing you, by the way.

What I don't. So what I don't worry about is being liked by the media. I've never given a shit about that. I don't care about critics. I don't care. I've never once done a show thinking, God, I hope Stephen A. Smith likes this. Right. I've never seen.

I believe that. I believe that. Now, let me, so I'll tell you what I. I have never, you're right, everybody cares about being liked. Of course you want to be liked. Of course I want to be liked. But I have never let that overcome the things that I believe at a very deep level. And I'll tell you, Colin, like right now, it's a little, it's getting more difficult.

Like, I have certain things that I believe in. I believe in rugged individualism. I believe in merit and character, in treating human beings as men. And I use that word to include women as well. Individuals on who they are. I am totally, to my core, resistant on this grouping that is so popular in society, whether it be by race or gender or ethnicity or whatever it may be. And I see that as a rising tide in America. And I wonder, and obviously we're talking at a very sensitive time in our country right now, and as it's manifested in the sports world, a lot of the people who I do care about, like, French,

and athletes, an analyst at ESPN, who are minorities who might disagree with my points of view. I do. I don't like that they would say, oh, Will, you're wrong. You know, Will's, they dislike me. I don't want that to happen, but I'm not going to sacrifice my principles for it. I'm not going to sacrifice what I know to be true is good about not just this country, but about the human condition and lifts everybody up. I don't have any idea what your initial question was, Colin.

It's okay No I mean we This is why we do the Saturday podcast I had Jim Jim Miller was on and halfway through it He starts interviewing me and I'm like I don't care it's a conversation Hell of I care

Let me let me ask this Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal But encouraged It's the enhanced games Some call it grotesque Others say it's unleashing human potential Either way The podcast's superhuman

Documented at all embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to? I do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English.

Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS. on the table right now.

Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing

and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Each party drives me crazy. I don't like the condescending nature of the Democratic Party. I don't like sometimes the mean-spiritedness I see from the conservative party. Both drive me nuts. And then there's things I like about both.

Silicon Valley is overwhelmingly left. I think they're curious. I think my son tends to be your classic sort of Silicon Valley left-leaning, that he wants information. He's always looking for new stuff. He wants to hear everybody's voice. He's very curious. And that part I like about the Democrats,

Republicans can be very common sense, very pragmatic with fiscal issues. There's not a lot of economic policy on, you know, there's less regulations, fewer regulations. So there's stuff I like about both and stuff that drives me mad about both. It is, how do you, as somebody that you would lean right, how would you reconcile? something that I am seeing in the last two years that is odd for me. Everybody. Everybody, including me.

This conspiracy theory thing that Trump sometimes embraces, and I'm seeing it more in my opinion on the right than the left, this embracing of conspiracy theories. I've made a career art of making fun of. 20 years ago, conspiracy theorists on the Patrick Ewing draft page,

on the Kurt Schilling sock. I wrote a chapter about it, two chapters in my books about it. Do you see that? Because I see that from the right, and it troubles me. Have you ever heard the joke about the two conspiracy theorists who got to heaven? And St. Peter said, before they walk into the pearly gate, you can ask me anything you want. I am omniscient. I will answer any question and give you total truth on it. They look at each other and they go, this is our moment. This is it. And they say, St. Peter, who killed JFK? And St. Peter says, it was Lee Harvey Oswald from the grassy knoll.

And they look at each other and they go, this thing is bigger than we thought. You can never satisfy conspiracy theories. However, Colin, I don't think any political party nor either ideology has some kind of monopoly on a conspiracy theory. I think the Russia collusion investigation has largely turned out to be a hoax. I think this postal service thing doesn't have much merit. behind it at all. That's not for me to say the right hasn't indulged in some craziness as well. And these are the reasons that I was interested in leaving politics in 2015. They were the unproductive conversations that I no longer really cared about being a part of. Now, Colin,

let me tell you, let me tell you how I ended up right leaning as you describe it. I don't even know anymore. I don't know what to describe myself as. I'm happy to admit I have conservative leanings, libertarian leadings. I'm definitely not on the left, you know. So I wasn't always this way. My dad was a plaintiff's attorney. I grew up in a small town in Texas, and I'm sure you know this. But a plaintiff's attorney sues people, medical malpractice, whatever it may be, and he makes his money on contingency, right? So if you don't win, you don't make any money.

So by nature, he ended up on the left. You know, I mean, tort reform was a thing driven by Republican. So my whole life I was surrounded more with left-leaning influence. I ended up on the right when I went to law school. I went to law school at the University of Texas, and I studied the Constitution, and I studied principles. And listen, there are many principled people on the left. I believe logic and principles led me to being more conservative. I often think our debates break down into empathy versus logic. You know, I had this conversation with Dan Levitart a few weeks ago when it comes

to many of these issues taking place in society right now. We could even apply it to the one that is literally causing fires in the street, Jacob Blake in Wisconsin. content. Logic will require us to look at the facts, break it down, ask, was it an unjustified shooting? Ask, was it racially motivated? Before we leap to a conclusion that it was, and by the way, it's indicative of this huge systemic problem in the United States. Empathy might lead you to listen to all the athletes, listen to everyone telling you what's a problem. And I think I tend to lean much, much more heavily on logic. I try to put more empathy into every analysis that I take, but I can never divorce myself from the facts, the principles, and logic.

Dan Levitard was actually supportive of you when you left ESPN and he said, you're a rare voice at the company, and you will be missed. How surprised were you? you by his support? A little. I don't know Dan well, probably not much more than I know you. We had a few conversations because he's in Miami and I was in Bristol and New York and we didn't have too many interactions, a few on-air interactions. Listen, when his producer Mike Ryan reached out, I was excited. Like, yes, let's do this. I want to have an hour conversation with Dan Levitart because I am intrigued by people that I disagree with. I'm like excited about that conversation. Tell me how we're, how we're missing the connection here, right? Convinced me I'm wrong. I don't know that you can persuade me

because I have put a lot of work into this thought, but I want to see if you can. I want to see how this conversation goes. So I have always been curious and interested in Dan Levitard, and if he thought I was a voice that was of some value to ESPN, well, I appreciate that. When you told them you were leaving, what was their reaction? When I told Levitart I was in? No, no, when you told ESPN bosses, hey, I'm out. What did they say? Well, I'm going to tell you this. Remember, this happened. My contract, I mean, I'll say this was up in March. Can you imagine a worse time for, I mean, this is when coronavirus economic panic is at its highest. I'll tell you, that had ESPN hard. It had ESPN hard. It had ESPN really hard. And they were having to make a lot of choices. And at that time, they definitely said, we want you to stay. We want to be able to negotiate with you. But at that point, it become clear to me that the other opportunity was better for me. I have to back to politics. I've told my more conservative friends, I've said, listen, Joe Biden's the best possible Democrat that could ever be hired. He's one term. He's not going to be,

I don't think he's going to be the most dynamic policy president. And in four years, Kamala Harris, be running for president, whether that, you know, vice presidents over in my lifetime, mostly, like Mike Pence, you just don't hear from them. You just don't even see them. And I've said, and my conservative, because my conservative friends are not, they're not fans of Trump, but they're conservatives. And so I say to them, you know, if, if, if, if, and they would say, why would I vote for Biden? And I would say, well, it's, what you don't want is somebody that's dynamic, energized, and 51. Because historically, if the economy's decent, we go with the incumbent.

It's generally, and especially recently, the incumbent wins. So what do you say to people that are not fans of Trump have voted occasionally on the other side of the aisle? What do you think of Joe Biden presidency would look like? Okay. It's interesting because back for being at ESPN for five years, I don't owe. openly talk about, you know, which way I want to vote or try to influence people. I just want to share my ideas. But I'm moving into this world. So let's talk a little more nakedly political on this. I did not, and I think I said this on first take in other places. I did not support President Trump in 2016. And I have a host of reasons for that to be the case. But I am terrified of the direction of the country and the direction that Joe Biden would allow this country to go. I'll tell you why. Joe Biden himself seems like a very nice man. He's probably middle road, more than likely than that. He's a politician. He's going to do whatever it takes to remain a politician in power, right? And right now, Colin, on the left, there are some very radical ideas that are no longer on the fringes. They are taking place on the Democratic convention stage, and they're definitely taking place in the streets of America. These are ideas like the United States of America is racist to its core. Even if

values and principles need to be questioned, those being things I talked about earlier, rugged individualism, even freedom of speech. You know, Rutgers University has said that teaching proper English needs to be questioned us whether or not it is a mark of white supremacy. You can go on and on and down the list, and these things are happening across our country. At the base level, in education systems, in the halls of academia, everywhere you go, these kinds of things are taking place, and these, to me, are a real threat. What lifts us up, Black, white, name. But you said those are, you said the radical left. Do you believe Biden is radical? No, but I think that he will do whatever it takes, and it will take in this moment catering to that radical left.

It controls the Democratic Party right now. I believe that. The AOC, you know, wing, the, what's what they call them, so is the, the crew or the club? I can't remember. that group of Congresswomen, congressmen that represent the hard progressive wing of the party, the Bernie Sanders wing of the party. I do think that wing is beginning to define the Democratic Party. Now, let me say two things about President Trump. One, I was wrong about this. I've always been a libertarian free trade kind of guy. China's not a fair player in trade. And I think increasingly we need to be aware that China is not our friend and partner. They've sold us cheap, plastic crap for years. that we traded away middle-class American jobs. I'm from small town in Texas.

I love middle America. I don't care to be a coastal elite. I don't care to be a New York, California elite. I love the middle of this country. And the middle of this country got hollowed out over the last 10 to 20 years. And I do think President Trump was right on trade with China. One last thing.

By the way, so do many of his critics do. Yeah, yeah. It's probably George Soros did. Well, you know, what's interesting about that is in the past, the left was the more restrictionist free trade party. You know, the right was more libertarian on free trade. Let's go ahead and trade with China, NAFTA, everything. I do think President Trump has been proven right on a lot of that international trade stuff. Here's one of the thing. We've learned this in the last couple of months, man. Civilizations are really hard to build, and they're easy to tear down.

Security, safety, hard to build. easy to tear down. I live in New York. I think I saw you tweet this other day. Something about Jerry Seinfeld's op-ed. New York will come back. And I think you said, you agree. Like, oh, people will want to live in New York, right? It's too smart. It offers too much energy that eventually over time, it's too much of a heartbeat, intellectually, artistically, culturally, in America. It will come back. But right now there's a guy in my corner. who pees into the building. Well, it's always had, listen, I've been there.

I've seen rats in my bedroom. I mean, listen, I've had twice gone a hotel in New York and there was a flood and I couldn't get down. But what I'm telling you, Colin, is I live here. I've been here for 13 and 14 years. It's taken a real bad turn. And this quality of life issues, those kind of quality of life issues, they can become everyone's priority very quickly.

And, you know, Trump wants to own law and order. No more riots in the street. No more burning businesses and buildings in Kenosha. You know, no more rising crime in Chicago and New York and San Francisco and Portland and Seattle. No more of that. And I'm going to tell you something. That speaks to people. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence.

Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and

conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't

know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. But the quality of life issue, would you not argue COVID?

I mean, it's not like... Absolutely, I would. Yeah, I mean, New York. nobody was saying you couldn't live there nine months ago what has happened in that time to erode the quality of life. And I would argue COVID. It's absolutely. So I don't blame that on, I mean, I think there's a radical right and a radical left. I do not believe they have as much power as Twitter insinuates. I do not believe Biden will cater. I don't think Mitt Romney, if he was president, would cater. I think we view often politics through the prism of social media and only 22% are on it. Like I don't think the quality of life in New York has anything more. to do with COVID. And COVID is, in fact, I'll be an optimist. I'll be an optimist here.

I told somebody the other day. We live in America. In the middle of the winter, we told young people don't go outside. And then when they did, we said, you can't go to bars, you can't go to gyms, you can't go to beaches as it turned into spring. Then we said you have to wear masks. You can't fly. And you can't go to school. And, oh, by, you just lost your job.

that's not great. I mean, I got kids. That's not great. Instead, what of happening was we got overwhelmingly, I'm in Los Angeles. I saw all the outside of two burning cars in Santa Monica, we got overwhelmingly peaceful protests. I think it could have been far worse. I think COVID, 11% unemployment. I think actually, if you look at the stuff,

stock market. If you look at some of the rebounding numbers in manufacturing, I think it hasn't been as bad as people think. I think social media lead you to believe the country's utter chaos. And I tell my friends and I talk about this all the time. Yeah, I got to wear a mask. I can't go to bars and the gyms are closed. But most people in America are still going home and playing with their kids and laughing and having a good life. That I think we've actually showed some resolve during the strangest shy of a meteor hitting the earth

year of my life. Yeah, but look at the rate of descent. I mean, I'd like to think of myself as an optimist as well, Colin, but, you know, I just spent a month with my family taking a road trip

across America. We did the West, and it was awesome. It was Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Utah. Yeah, I know you go to Utah. I mean, by the way, southern Utah. It's one of the gyms of this country that no one knows about.

Stunning. Yeah. I don't mean no one knows about, but it's totally undersold. And I saw people going to the grocery store and largely treating each other with respect. I saw people who, if they didn't believe that a mask was required in that moment, were largely considerate of other people's beliefs and concerns. But that doesn't mean the country isn't headed in a bad direction. I agree with you, by the way, social media is not real life. But social media has an outsized influence on real life. Yeah, you can argue that's certainly a, yeah, you can, that, that's the best argument I've always thought is that it's not real life, but it does have an outsized influence for what it really means.

Look, you and I both, how many TV shows and radio shows do you know that do their programming off of what's happening on Twitter? I mean, all of them, right? Just about, you don't. I know because I watch your show. I didn't. But I can, I mean, almost every other show would say what's trending on Twitter, and that would be their rundown for their show, right? So what happens is Twitter has this outsized influence on first institutional media. And then it clearly, as you said, can influence the radical fringes, which now what we see increasingly is those radical fringes are influencing real life by taking to the street, by creating chaos.

And by the way, I don't think President Trump handled coronavirus. You keep going back to how much of our current situation is attributable to COVID. And a huge, I agree with you, a huge percentage. And I don't think President Trump handled that perfectly. And I think many, many governors and mayors absolutely fumbled the ball. Chief among them, the mayor of New York City. Bill de Blasio has absolutely destroyed the city over the past six months. Well, yeah, I think the country was, I don't live in New York, so I don't know that. But I was a huge Bloomberg fan. I think we were guessing. I have two friends. This is so random. I have two friends who are on the board of hospitals in Los Angeles. And both told me individually the same story.

Everybody was guessing for two months. And then the therapeutics improved, how to use ventilators improved. And the reality of COVID now is people are in hospitals for a shorter time. Fewer people are dying. We're not guessing as much. Do you think the fears any less? Yes. Yes.

I do. again, social media leads you to believe we're all fearmongers. In the places I'm at, Park City a lot, in the places in Los Angeles, the different communities, people are respectful, they get it. I do think older people are a little crustier, but I think they have a reason to be, because I think if you look at COVID, post-70 is a more dangerous spot. But young people my age, I think everybody's respectful. I've flown 11 times.

Have you really? Yeah, 11 times. And people have been unbelievable. The crew's been great. No disputes. People have been just, I guess my point is, I think America, I think we, I look at this optimistically. It's been the strangest year of my life.

And I think overwhelmingly, we have overcome our mistakes. We've had, we've had, I mean, the protests, because of the unemployment numbers, people were able to protest for weeks on end. I mean, usually you go protest on a weekend or something will, and everybody's got a job. But in America now, we have 11% 11.5% I think unemployment. People are, they have time. And I think through all of it, there are lots, maybe I'm naive. I'm proud of my neighbors.

I think we've overcome a lot this year. And I think brighter days ahead. I really do. Maybe I'm totally naive. Well, okay, here's another thing. Look, you know what? I was just prepared to talk about who's going to step up at Alabama or Georgia quarterback and whether or not they can take somebody over as this.

But I'll do this as well. It's so funny. Like, I don't consider myself at all, Colin, a partisan, but I'm open about my ideological leaning. So here's Joe Biden. He's willing to embrace a total shutdown when it comes to COVID if the scientists recommend it, right? And you hear that. You're like, oh, that's imminently reasonable. Defer to the experts.

But which experts? The epidemiologists exclusively? Is it Dr. Fauci we're going to totally defer to? Because right now, the cost in this country of the shutdowns is mounting, and it's mounting at an exponential rate, not just economically. Obviously, we know about the jobs that are being lost. We're probably two months from businesses totally cratering, at least in the Northeast, when these restaurants can't have outdoor dining anymore

and you can't have people inside. But I'm telling you, there is a massive mental health toll. taking place. You and I have found common ground because I think I am not for a shutdown. I think this is the most under-told story in America. We have a massive mental health crisis that is unfolding and we're not paying attention. Don't you think, you know this better than me. I don't remember how old your kids are. My oldest is 12. The ones that are actually suffering the most are the high schoolers, the teenagers, totally cut off from their social circles, their meaning, their identity, their sports, whatever may be that gives them a reason to be an emerging individual in the world.

Now all of a sudden it's stripped from them. Yes. And I'm, mind my, I have nephews that are 15, 16, and I have seen like people with teenagers are feeling it the most. Yep. It's that this is one of the reasons I was never a fan of the shutdown. I mean, you can do, you can be two things at once. I can support Black Lives Matter, but think the player should play. I can be for social.

this. Can I say Black Lives Matter but not support capitalized Black Lives Matter? Meaning that's a political agenda with an openly stated platform and I disagree with it. Can I still believe that Black Lives Matter but I don't have to sign up for all of these other ideological positions totally run contrary? This is something Bill Maher and I, one of my favorite things about Bill Maher, he talks about this. It's okay to think two things simultaneously. My wife can say I love you and a second later say you drive me nuts. I need to go for a drive. That's okay.

My daughter once told me she hated me. 20 minutes later, she said, I'm so sorry, I love you so much. That's called living. We can't hate everybody who votes for candidates we don't like. So I think I've never been for shutdowns. I think 47,000 people a year commit suicide. I think that'll double. I think we tend to be very good at addressing things we see or hear.

You can't see mental illness many times. and I think another lockdown is so punitive to people that are on antidepressants, people that are lonely, young people who are trying to find an identity, old people who don't have comfort and support. I'm with you on that. I think it's a massive issue. I would not support a lockdown from any kind of what you're saying is this ties both of these things together, the ability to hold two ideas in your head at the same time.

and being opposed to lockdowns is this. Saying it's wrong to totally defer to the scientist doesn't mean you don't believe in science. It means that a leader has to balance competing interests. And a leader would sit there and listen to the epidemiologist and also listen to the economist and also listen to the mental health expert and find the right solution that balances all those competing interests. That's what true leadership is. Yeah, no, no, we agree on that. Yeah, I don't think, you know, I pushed back.

In the first couple of months, I wish, you know, for the first month, I was like, let's mostly, you know, shut it down for about a month and get our arms around this. I mean, good God, if you can't shut a company down for one month and what kind of a company is it, like you should have reserves. And then you get into month two, three, four, five, as we learn more, I'm like, folks, there are, there are certainly places, meatpacking plants, jails, multi-generational living. Nursing home. Nursing home. They're very dangerous. I am still not a believer that outside in the sun, it's easy to get. If it was, California Beach communities would be overwhelmed because the beaches have been packed for months.

And nobody in Newport and Manhattan Beach in Hermosa, the numbers are granular. So I still, let's go back to a sports topic. This is what drives me nuts. if we can have people jammed on to planes, why can't we have 9,000 people in a 64,000 seat stadium wearing masks? I don't get that. So here's where I will profess humility. First, I'll deal with the players, then we'll deal with the fans.

Should the players be allowed to play? I can't remember who it was the other day saying, it was a politician saying, oh, it was Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, who's happy that the Big Ten shut down, right? She said, well, football's a very intimate sport. You're face-to-face, you're exchanging sweat, you're exchanging, you know, common air breathing on each other. And she's right.

But we don't know so much about this virus. To this day, we know so little. We do seem to think that among young people, it has a very, very low mortality rate and isn't having great massive health repercussions. Yeah, we, yeah, there is almost no mortality rate among kids under 17, right? That's right. So I would empower individual choice. If you don't want to play, you shouldn't have to play.

Right. We'll keep your scholarship for another year. We'll wait until the same passes. It won't be punitive. But if you want to play, let people play. Now, I would employ the same thing when it comes to fans in the stands with the provided information. Well, we can socially distance this much. We can reduce.

Because if you do pack 90,000 people in this statement, you didn't say that. Did you? Did you say 90? No, no, nine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, nine. You don't want a massive outbreak that, you know, goes out and can't be controlled. Look, AT&T Stadium in Dallas holds 100,000 people.

Can you put 20,000 in there at a safe social distance? Yeah, you can. Will Cain's joining us. So you probably thought we were just going to talk about games. I actually thought because you're now at Fox. I thought he probably wants to talk politics, so I'll give him an opportunity to talk politics. That's why Ashley all these questions. I mean, I don't mind it at all.

I don't. Yeah, I don't talk about it. I watch politics all day. I don't talk about it on my shows, but I like talking about it. I think anything that makes me think is good. Any topic it makes me, I do think, I thought you're, I thought. Hey, Colin, that's exactly how I think. That's why sports wasn't a great leap for me.

I always loved sports. I'm like, well, let me find the angle in this topic that makes me thinking, makes my endorphins fire. Same thing with politics. Man, we're not that different on this. The conspiracies and the food fight and the left that never fired off my endorphins. It just doesn't. It never did it for me. It doesn't work for me.

All the conspiracy stuff, I was, you know, I told. Right now, it's a battle of ideas. or it should be at least because there's very important ideas. Here, I'll throw it at you. Here's something I thought about the other day in a run. So I thought to myself, there's a lot of complaints among conservatives that Silicon Valley leans left. And I thought, that's interesting.

So most of my life, I always felt Wall Street was moderate to right. I mean, there were liberals on it, but it was moderate to right. They never waited for liberals. They never catered to them. They never said, you know, it's an understanding. even playing field, the money is mostly in conservative hands. They won the battle, the financial battle

and the intellectual financial battle. There were just a lot of conservatives that wanted to be bankers, wanted to be accountants, wanted to be financiers, wanted to be hedge fund people. Now, in a battle of ideas and intellectual concentration, it's all Wall Street's less relevant

and what's far more relevant is tech. Why should they go, oh, you know what, we beat you to the punch and all this stuff and we dominate this industry, are bad, we'll give you this, we'll give you that. Wall Street never catered, placated, never worried about the uneven playing field when they controlled it. Why should left-leaning Silicon Valley feel it's their need to allow conservatives to catch up

in a space where Democrats clearly have an edge? Okay. So first, I don't think you're right about Wall Street. I don't think Wall Street was ever nakedly one political ideology over the other. Wall Street was about which particular moment preserves our ability to make money the most. They would be happy to go either way. And if you look at the leaders of Goldman Sachs and places like that, they mostly vote Democrat. They mostly have.

I'm sure there's conservative dudes running around trading stocks on Wall Street. But I just think most of it's driven out of self-interest. Now, is the tech industry driven out of self-interest? Is it a truly capitalist enterprise and they are catering to the largest market? Well, let me answer that question by asking you one. When you watch sports talk, do you think sports talk right now, you know, as a whole, largely reflects where the audience is? When you're watching ESPN or maybe even FS1 or whatever, do you look at that and go, wow, that's really in touch with the majority of the audience? I don't watch a lot of other stuff, to be honest.

I don't. Do I... Well, I'll tell you, I think it's way out of touch. Yeah, I don't think... I don't think you're wrong with the SPN on that. I don't watch any of it. But I would say, I think I'm mostly in touch, but on the NBA issues,

I'm probably out of touch with Iowa. It depends. Am I in touch with California, New York, in major cities? Yes. Am I out of touch with Iowa? Probably when it comes to my NBA opinions. Well, look, you're an outlier.

You're hard to pin down because you are openly coastal elite. You know, you love your Manhattan Beach in New York. But you do your everyman analogies, which are awesome, and everybody can identify with you. So you're a tough one. I wasn't really talking about you. But when I love sports and always have, meaning I can assume, by the way,

when I said that I was a fan of yours and I learned from you, It's because I studied you. Like, I study everybody and how they're doing it and what their frame is and how they're approaching it. And I think the vast majority of sports talk is, Colin, I'm not talking by a little bit either. I'm talking about a lot, completely out of touch with where people are and what they want. I don't disagree. I think there's a lot. I think the newspaper sports media is absolutely further left in America.

That I, I subscribe to that. Yes. Now, the reason I bring that up to you, because I say, okay, is the sports media industry responding to capitalism? Are they responding to the market? Are they responding to consumer demand? And the answer is quite obviously no. Now there's a lot of legacy interest that will protect that. But what you're also looking at, and I believe this is the case. I'm not even talking about ESPN or sports media. Now I'm talking about corporate America in general is suffering from a plague of spinelessness. I see companies and CEOs sacrificing their bottom line. Do you always believe this? And I think it's a very rational thing to believe. Like, oh, people are always motivated out of self-interest. And money is self-interest. Well, you know what's more powerful than money?

Fear. And the self-interest that is driving corporate American decisions right now is let me avoid anybody taking my job away by canceling me or calling me a racist. You know, I don't care if my ratings go down. I don't care if I lose some of my audience. I'll live to tomorrow. They're driven out of fear. I don't think Silicon Valley is completely in touch with their audience.

I think they are ideologically leaning left, and that's how some industries are. The oil industry, that's a great example, leans to the right. Oil and gas, leans to the right. And that's a self-selection mechanism often more than anything else. But what's supposed to balance that out is do you respond to your audience? And I do not think the tech industry is responding to their audience. They're not saying, hey, how do I bring everybody under the tent? how do I get as big of customer base as I can out there?

If it's not doing that, then why are four tech companies largely carrying the Dow for seven years? By the way, that's a great point. I was going to bring it up earlier when you said the stock markets up. I think the stock market's up because of about six stocks, isn't it? And they're Silicon Valley stocks. So if they're not, because I do believe, I do believe Silicon Valley is more capitalist driven than people believe. I think Mark Zuckerberg has proven that. It's about the money.

I think it's... Well, look, I would never hold myself out as a stock expert. One of my best buddies who I grew up with and went to law school with, he is a hedge fund, and he's a smartest guy I know. And he and I were talking about... He's, look, everybody believes who we've been sitting home last six months. Zoom is a good stock to hold or whatever it may be. That's not a business proposition.

That's not a value investment idea. That's just a shallow observation. So, like, he doesn't believe that all these stocks that you're talking about really have the long-term value that the market has given them. But that being said, I'm not telling you like these tech companies don't have real value. But what it means is there's going to be opportunity. There's going to be opportunity. The future of capitalism is more atomized, man. It's going to be small companies. And you know this. I mean, your future will be one that's very interesting to watch, as in mind, by the way. If the market is inefficient and if it is not catering to the consumer base, all that does is

create opportunity. Look, our colleague, Clay Travis at Outkick, has seen a market opening, and I think he's very well. I said our colleague. I guess I'm a Fox guy too now. Yeah, you are. But I think that he's found a market that's been completely underserved by sports media. Yeah, I think our disagreement is I do believe Silicon Valley's interest is making money. I think Larry Ellis and Oracle likes to make money. He certainly spends it. I think Zuckerberg wants to make money. And I think they have tapped in to the kind of zeitguist of what

Steve Jobs' old saying was, I'm going to create stuff before you know you need it. So I don't think, people say Silicon Valley is all about ideology. I think it's capitalism. And that's why it's working. Because I think investors, and when I say I'm an investor, I've been in the market since 89, doesn't mean I think I'm a

busy investor. But when I look and I read Barrens and I'm on getting my stuff from Morgan Stanley every month and, you know, Motley Fool. And I read everything. I subscribe to, you know, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, everything. I do think, I do think Silicon Valley is all about capitalism. And I think that sometimes frustrates liberals.

They sell us this technological crack that we need all the time. And the ideology largely hasn't gotten in the way. Left, right. You need the new iPhone, man. That's right. So I see, to my, that's my point. That doesn't mean they don't have a spin, an ideology. Oh, I do think they lean left. Absolutely, but I think capitalism trumps it.

I think capitalism in Silicon Valley trumps their ideology. They want to make money. By the way, never forget the basic human reality of tech kids. They were ignored in high school. They didn't make the football team. There is a capitalistic reality is they like compiling and leveraging their power and wealth. And I think it's a real thing. It is, man. I had a buddy the other day who's in tech in New York, and we were talking about, I mean, this is what I was talking about earlier. Like, you know, these corporations are passing down laws, like, or not laws, but

edicts like, we're not going to use the word blacklist anymore when we're going to use a company that's a company we can no longer use. We're not going to talk about a master list either. We're putting all these things aside, right? Which is insane. It's just insanity that we're falling prey to. But he told me one of them that. tech guy was like, I think it's time. There's been a couple arguments. We should retire the

handshake. We really should. It's a stupid and acquitted idea. I agree. You agree with that? Yes. Yes. I grew up that a man can be measured by a handshake. I do not. I am not a handshake person. I am, to be honest with you, if we, there's got to be something invented. Maybe it's the next society, the Martians that are circling according to the Pentagon. And we can have some sort of social greeting that doesn't involve skin touching. Oh, bull, man. Oh, bull. You can't, before you move to Utah, we're going to have to get you in on this handshake. I don't know about Park City, but firm and with eye contact. But my buddy said, my buddy said, this, of course you're ready to get rid of the handshake, because you don't even like making eye contact. You would

outlaw the eye contact if you could. That's the same kid in high school you're talking about, and now he has a ton of power. Yeah. So, all right, you're busy. His name is Will Kane. He's a co-host to Fox and Friends weekends. He has gone from politics to sports and a segue back into politics. Not leaving sports behind, man. Not leaving it behind, though. No, I think it's, listen, Fox is really, you know, it's funny. I tell people when I first came over here, I said, you know, the Disney umbrella, you can feel it.

And I didn't always, not that I was ever treated poorly, but I always felt there was a, you could feel the Disney. pressure at ESPN. They were running the company. Didn't Noah's agree with, you know, certain policies. I've never been treated better in my life than the Murdox that to a lot of people, oh, the Murdox, Fox News, trouble. And I'm like, I only judge people on how they treat me. I've never been treated better in my life by any employee.

I've been doing this 27 years, best I've ever been treated. They've been wonderful to my family. They've been wonderful for me. I was invited to dinner at Rupert's house. Without getting into too many personal things, just offered things. I've never been offered. My negotiations have been insanely fair and reasonable. So it's welcome to a company that from what I've experienced for five years has been very open.

The way they've handled COVID, social changes, they've been really remarkable. Like it's, and I hope, and I hope, and one of the reasons I was excited is bold, meaning won't bend to that corporate spinelessness I was talking about, won't give in to a mob of people saying something about you. It's not true. We'll listen to what you actually say and stand by it. That's what I'm, I'm not saying Disney wasn't that way either. I was never pressured in any time to say something or not say something. I never was. But I can already feel the boldness in Fox.

And by the way, here's the thing. You've been all over the place on DAC, and you need somebody to tell you. what's up because, I mean, one minute you like him, the next you don't, and I'm like, I don't know what this guy is. I like him. I like him personally, and I think he embodies leadership skills that I think are crucial that guys like Baker Mayfield are lacking. I think he's a marginal arm talent, a good, not special athlete, and I think if somebody would have offered me $110 million to be the face of the most popular franchise in America in a state with no tax, I would have taken it. Well, I agree with you on the contract. Take the cowboy contract. There's a lot of value.

Oh, my Lord. But we can wind us up here with this story. I could debate you on QBR and wins, and wins, losses even, and head-to-head with guys like Carson Lynn. So we could do all that, and that passes every test. But this will be something we both agree on. Dan Orlovsky, who I like a lot, who's a great analyst at ESPN, told me this story. He said he was talking to Dan Mullen. And one of the ways you measure a leader, and if you can elevate those around you is take the ones and put them with the threes, right? Let's just see what happens. And if he can elevate the threes into playing and beating the ones on defense, you got yourself a gamer, a leader here. Somebody whose compound effect is greater perhaps than even his quote-unquote talent would suggest. And Orlovsky asked

Mullen, well, who's the best that you've ever had at that? He said, without a doubt, it's Dack Prescott. You could put Dack with the threes and the threes would beat the ones all day long. That's good. That's good for him. Well, again, that goes back to a maturity, I, there's a lot of like about him. It's just, you know, if you're asking me, arm talent, evasiveness, quick twitch, arm angle, I like Carson Wentz. But if you're asking me in terms of relates to players leadership, and I think that's a huge part, I don't think that's a small component. Like I think it's a, I think we both praise Brady because that's what made a coach. Yeah, no, I think Dax really good at that.

All right, Will Kane, I hope I didn't ask you too many political questions. questions. I just, I'm interested. So this is the only... I'm always good to hash out these ideas. Yeah, this is the only outlet I can talk about stuff like that. So good talking to you, buddy. Nice. Let's grab a beer sometime. And are you going to stay in New York? You're not coming to L.A. Not coming to L.A. staying in the Northeast. We'll see about New York City. He needs to get a tack together. Yeah. All right, Will. All right, man. Take care. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygo and friends. Me and hilarious.

various guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. call it grotesque, others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably

10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep,

that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilts of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. On The Look Back at it podcast.

In 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.