The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Lakers, Kawhi Leonard, Kyrie Irving, And How to Fix The NBA Draft

Episode Date: June 21, 2019

Doug Gottlieb, in for Colin Cowherd, thinks that David Griffin did an amazing job in yesterday's draft but that the Lakers won the Anthony Davis trade because they don't have to build through the draft. He explains why no one has any idea where Kawhi Leonard will end up. Doug says Kyrie isn't the only reason for the downfall of the Celtics. Plus, Doug tells you what changes he would make to the NBA Draft.Guests Include: Aaron Torres, Jay Bilas and Ric Bucher. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be in. However, you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlie. Filling in for Uncle Colin, he'll be back on Monday with the hottest of hot tics. If you're listening to the IHeart Radio app or Fox Sports Radio, thanks so much.

We've got a great show for you. Jay Billis will join us next hour. Rick Bueker, the hour after that. Aaron Torres from Fox Sports Radio, a guy who like me is a draft Nick. A hoop head will join me in 15 minutes to get his thoughts. The latest on Kauai Leonard, kind of interesting, like little side nugget note. You won't believe who the potential more guacamole, moly, is with the New England Patriots. that one's kind of interesting and stop me if you heard this before

but a team in baseball who signed a guy to a ridiculous contract isn't performing as well as they thought they would perform you guys heard that one before now and no it's not the angels they're actually performing better than you thought they'd perform the doyers take three out of four from the Giants all right let's get to last night's NBA draft

you know there are times in life when there's a fair trade. There are times in life where divorces are amicable. I didn't grow up child of divorce. My parents were married. It's 1968. My dad died four and a half years ago.

They were, I mean, look, there was ups and downs. I'm sure there was some tough moments. There were some plates that were broken. I'll never forget I got my parents one year for their anniversary. I got them a set of steak knives. and I had a great little note in there. Hey, a good knife might have ended this thing a long time ago, right?

Like, that's a good note. I was kind of happy with myself. But I'm not a child of divorce, so it was always strange to me. Just always, my wife's family, they've been married, you know, her mom was a teenager when her mom, my mother-in-law, was married to my father-in-law. They've been married ever since. It was really amazing story You know

You're talking about two couples combined Married over 80 years And they're both still alive And very healthy and kicking So I always had this view Of divorces, man That's like the end of the world Then I have friends that are like

Yeah you know Life goes on Colin's a perfect example of that I was friends with Colin back with his first wife, Kim, just great lady. And now Ann, great lady. You know, Anne already had kids.

Colin already had kids. Now they have like the Brady Bunch. And it's just kind of eclectic mixture of it. Matter of fact, Colin sent me a video of his daughter, bungee jumping in Africa. That was like, no, thank you. But it's amazing. But I remember Olivia when she was,

when he first moved to Connecticut, and I'm going to say she was three years old or four years old. She was always mature then. I mean, she kind of same person now as she was then. But that's a perfect example. Like, they both moved across the country. They have found a way to make it work and go on with their lives and have successful.

Like sometimes it does. So I was watching what the Pelicans did with the Lakers picks. And remember, they still have Brandon Ingram. It wasn't just the number four pick. It was Brandon Ingram. It was Josh Hart. It was Lonzo Ball. Brandon Ingram has that compartmental syndrome, which apparently they think they fixed.

The Lakers never loved Brandon Ingram. He was like the last of the Mohicans, the last guy selected during the Mitch Cupcheck era. So he wasn't necessarily long for the Lakers. He was always part of trade bait. But he's a good player. It's a good player. He looks like he could be Duran. He feels like he could.

He's not Kevin Duran. He's not. He doesn't shoot. three as well. He's not as tall. He's not as good a rebounder. He's not a dynamic of player. He's just not. But he's a good asset to have and he's a very good versatile defender. Josh Hart, they felt like they got a steal and they got him. It kind of soured on a little bit. When they tried to start him last year, he didn't, he wasn't necessarily good enough to be a starter on a playoff caliber team. Good character guy, got a little bit in his own feelings,

you know, when things weren't going well for him. But Like, Josh Hart's going to be a pro for 12 years, 15 years. And then Lonzo Ball, who's kind of the prize of this thing. But Lonzo Ball, the thought is at best, he would be the third best guard in his own draft class, right? The third best guard? And he hasn't been healthy for an entire season. And I do think that he'll be really, really good. But you've got to give to get.

And then people go, well, the draft. The draft picture is the perfect example. how this thing could end upicably. I think David Griffin did an amazing job. Amazing job. Obviously, he's got picks upon picks to come from the Lakers. But remember, like the Zions are, Zion Williamson is, in fact, a Haley's Comet.

He's a Haley's Comet. He's a once-in-a-generation-type player. It doesn't mean that he'll be as good as LeMron James, who is another once-in-a-generation-type player. I'm just saying six foot five and a half dudes that can jump to the moon, defend every position, have no ego, are left-handed, you know, like all the different things, have this play with this big smile on their face, or tough can score the low post.

They don't come along very often. And of course, they traded out of the fourth spot and drafted Jackson Hayes, who I love. Like Jackson Hayes is like a JV player until like his junior year in high school and then didn't start until his senior year in high school. And then, you know, he grew, he blocked. And I think eventually he's got a chance to be a really good player. They traded out of the 10 pick and got Nikola Alexander Walker, who's from Virginia Tech, who's very talented.

And then they got a kid from Brazil, who none of you have ever seen plays. I'm not going to bore you with it. The point is that Hayes, Alexander Walker, and Silva, it's a crapshoot. And what David Griffin is doing is playing the numbers game. It's the same thing that college football programs do. One superstar five star does not your program make. You get 24 stars or 10, 4 stars and 12, 3 stars. And the volume of your recruiting class, you develop, you nurture,

and you put them in the right spot and you find out who's going to become, And by the way, all of these future draft picks, you do know the draft is not getting older, it's getting younger. Most people have concluded, based upon what Adam Silver has said, that the one and done will go away and you'll be able to go straight at a high school, which means instead of drafting 19-year-old kids who aren't ready to play after playing a year in college, you're going to draft 18-year-old kids who aren't ready to play

and haven't even gone to college yet. They've never been in a defensive stance. They don't understand the first two rules of defense, stop the ball and guard the bucket, right? Like all of these things, I'm overdoing it a little bit. But look, my dad was a college coach. I played for a great high school coach since now a great junior college coach. I got to Notre Dame and I felt like I had never played basketball before. She's a different level.

Forget the athlete. It's the attention to detail and the coaching and things that you have to learn. but I bring it up because, look, the Pelicans are never going to be able to get free agents. They're just not. You know, one of the guys they trade away was Solomon Hill. To move picks, to get rid of that fourth pick and get the eighth pick and the 10th pick, but the 10th pick they end up moving out of that. They got rid of the Solomon Hill contract.

And Solomon Hill was a guy who was with the Indiana Pacers. And they had to overpay in order to get him to come to New Orleans. And then he got hurt before he ever even played a game there. And it's a terrible, terrible contract. But why do you have to overpay to get Solomon Hill? Because you're in New Orleans. The only chance they have of being successful is to, you know, is to trade for a bad contract like, you know, like the Drew Holiday deal

or a guy who, you know, when front offices change. or to draft a guy and the only way they can be successful drafting isn't you can't pin your hopes on one draft pick you got to do it with volume volume volume volume volume then you look at the Lakers

do I think they overpaid probably but the Lakers they don't have to operate the same way the Pelicans do or the Thunder do or the Timberwolves do like they don't have to the jazz do they don't have to

trade for or draft their best players. In theory and really in practice, the Lakers have always been able to get the best players to come to Los Angeles, right? Happen with Kareem. Happen with Shaq. I mean, frankly, it happened with Dwight Howard and late with Steve Nash and those things didn't work. I mean, but it did in fact happen.

Happened with LeBron. And now it's happened with Anthony Davis. I know they had to trade for Anthony Davis, but he wanted to be there. And so the point is that I look and I was like, all right, so what did they really give up? I like Lonzo Ball. But if it's Lonzo Ball or Anthony Davis, are we having this? If it's Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram for Anthony Davis,

we're not having this conversation, right? No one thinks those three players, who are good players? They're going to be NBA players. And you know what? Lonzo's got unique skills, man. He's a tremendous defender. He can rebound. He can really pass.

He's got to learn how to shoot. and he's got to stay healthy. And oh yeah, by the way, he's got to figure out a way to have a better killer instinct. He gives up the ball way too quick. All that said, those are,

would you have freaked out if it was those three players for Anthony Davis, who would you have said got the better end of the deal? You'd say the Lakers, right? You'd say, oh, Lakers, I mean, they kicked

David Griffin's ass six ways and sideways. Right? And while you'd say, Well, why didn't they trade the fourth pick? Because that fourth pick, if you draft the first rounder, he goes on your salary cap. And, oh yeah, by the way, he's not going to help you win this year

or next year or even the year after that. So now that you see Jackson Hayes and the Kill Alexander Walker and Marcos Luzada Silva, like, do you still think that the Pelicans won the trade? No. When I was a kid, I used to trade every day at lunch. my mom would make brown schweiger and mustard sandwiches and for some reason I liked them and to balance it I would get a couple of Oreos right maybe some chips a hoy and I just I mean look Oreo is the greatest cookie double stuff is a waste of time it's the perfect example of more is not always more less is more but I used to trade that for a jalupa or taco stack one of the hot lunches that you could get And now I was eating like a king. And the kid that had the taco or the taco snack or, I mean, that traded me for my chips

of hoy or my double stuff or my Oreos, that kid got something that he couldn't get elsewhere. Meanwhile, I still got the, I still had the Oreos at home. I just ate him for lunch. It was a fair trade. And sometimes though divorces, you know, feel like it's the end of the earth. and one side got over on the other. The truth is that, yeah, maybe the wife got screwed the divorce, but she got rid of him,

and she's going to have another husband, another dude, and a better life. And the kids are happier because the parents aren't arguing, right? There's no uncomfortable. Sometimes divorces are amical. Sometimes trades are fair. Even in the NBA. Remember the Paul George trade?

Remember the Paul George trade? Is Oklahoma City better because of it? Yeah. Is Indiana better because of it? Yeah. I mean, like, you couldn't have seen Victorola Depot getting hurt, but they love Victorola Depot. He's an all-star. They like their team. And Oklahoma City likes Paul George and got to hold on to him. Guess what? It's actually a trade that benefited both teams. Sometimes divorces benefit both people. Sometimes I benefited from having a Chalupa and Jimmy benefited from having double stuff. Aaron Torres joins the show who does he think did the best last night and and what's what's the most likely

short-term prognosis of Zion Williamson and am I the only one of thinks RJ Barrett and Kevin Durant or RJ Barrett and Kyrie Irving do not work? We'll discuss that next be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Easter

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And on my podcast, the Clifford Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

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Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. Wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. with all the snacks and drink. Sidebar.

Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? They had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white color or something here? Just a second. Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album?

I would. Come on. I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic.

You are. You are. I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really. trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin Cowherd.

This is The Hurd on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Last night was the NBA draft. Aaron Torres watched it, tweeted about it, covered it. And of course, he covers college basketball for Fox Sports. you can hear right here on Fox Sports Radio every Saturday, have it 11 o'clock Eastern time, 8 o'clock at night, Pacific time, alongside Arnie Spanner. And let's just start with, you know, what, to me,

the draft was, it's the beginning of the potential for a Zion era, right? Is that we've had a couple of these drafts, and honestly, it's probably not since the LeBron Jaffed that I felt that strongly about a personality and a player being different from every. everybody else? Are you okay with that? Or is there somebody I'm missing in between 2003 and last night? No, Doug. I don't. And I was actually thinking as that draft was going on, and maybe there is a good answer. I just haven't thought about it yet. But, you know, they cut to the, you know, they cut to

the video of the people partying in the streets of New Orleans. And I'm sitting there literally thinking, has any franchise ever been this excited immediately after trading a franchise player? And I don't think the answer is yes. And I think that speaks to what Zion Williamson from at least a marketing perspective is going to do for this organization. Now, look, I think he's going to be a really good basketball player. But I also think, look, for the same reasons that we've discussed since November, December, maybe even before that, there are questions about his weight, about his ability for his body to hold up over an 82 game season. But I think from a box office perspective, there's no doubt about it.

And I think it showed when Marty Smith was crowd surfing in the streets of New Orleans after the pick one official. Yeah, it's going to be fascinating. I looked at it and I started the show saying, look, I really like Jackson Hayes and what I think he could become. And the irony to it was, I thought you draft, you know, whatever you trade, the pick you got from, and the Lakers, you make that an upside pick, whether Jackson Hayes or a Cam Reddish, two guys with super high ceilings, but a long way to go. You put it with what they already have.

Like, that makes sense. But again, like, Jackson Hayes, like, he might become something great or he might not. McKeel Alexander Walker, like, same thing. The kid from Grease, Silva, same thing. The draft is getting younger, not older. Like, I kind of think, like, in our massive freakout over the number of picks,

we may have missed the fact that picks are really hit or miss, and there's a reasoning to volume of them, and the draft is going to get younger, I kind of feel like it feels like a more fair trade now that we've had the draft go down. Yeah, you know, and that was kind of one of my big things, and, you know,

listen, I'm not privy to what David Griffin's thought process is. I mean, I'm just kind of reading the tea leaves like everybody else, but I think publicly he's made it pretty clear that they don't want to rebuild in New Orleans, that they believe kind of a core of Drew Holiday, of the guys that they got from the Lakers and Zion Williamson can at least be competitive next season.

And so to me, that was kind of one of like the weird kind of interesting things to me about last night was, you know, we've gotten this narrative, whether it's factual or not, that they don't want to go in full rebuild mode. And then you take a guy Jackson A's like, Doug, you know his story. Like he didn't start varsity until his senior year of high school. This wasn't a guy that, you know, we had. Pegged as forget an NBA draft prospect, you know, when he's 14, 15, 16 years old. How about like 18? How about like when he enrolled at Texas?

And so I just found that interesting. Now, to your point, you know, are there guys, you know, what is the upside of a guy that you're getting an 8, 9, 10 in a draft? I don't know. But I did think that was a little bit weird is, you know, we're sold that he, you know, David Griffin traded out of the four spot to kind of get some veteran help or to get more experience and then you draft maybe the guy with the highest upside but also the least bit of kind of instant impact value maybe I would say argue out of anybody in the lottery yeah it's interesting

I mean I said they got the Solomon Hill they got rid of the Solomon Hill contract would freeze up some money as well so there was I liked what he did who is the who is the team that that that you think affected themselves positively the most last night oh that's a good question You know, listen, I thought Philly in the second round, Bruno Fernando, I saw you tweet about him for people who didn't watch him in college. I mean, he's just a low post-banger, energy hustle and show a little bit more of a versatile game as the season went on. Admiral Schofield from Tennessee, like I like the fact that he was a role player at various points at the college level and can have a role player-type impact at the NBA level. And then Carson Edwards, like, look, we saw what he. did in the NCAA tournament.

And I think when you're in the second round, especially by the way, when you're a playoff team that was a buzzer-beater away from potentially advancing to the Eastern Conference finals, and like, look, you know, it remains to be seen what Philly's roster is going to look like next year is Jimmy Butler going to be back. But, like, if you return that team intact, like, I just think you've got a lot of value in the second round. You're plugging holes. You're adding depth.

I like what they did. I like Memphis, obviously locking in John Moran at number. Number two, I am a big Brandon Clark guy for people who haven't seen him from Gonzaga. Another guy, he's really only got one real skill, but that skill's really good. It's defense, energy, hustle, rim protection. And so I like what teams did. I like the teams that had a plan. It was clear that they were going after something.

The Warriors are another one with Jordan Poole, who's a shooter, Eric Pascal, who's obviously a little bit of a Draymond Green type player. I don't want to say it's apples to apples. like the Warriors stayed on brand. They are who they are. I like the teams with a plan. Those were the ones that kind of jumped out to me. I'm only going to correct you because it's super confusing.

Oh, what did I do? The Celtics got Carson Edwards. Oh, no. Yes, yes. So let me ask you, real quick, Doug. It's the most confusing thing ever. Listen, I did the NBA draft on radio there for a decade, for a decade. And the way it works, the way it really works is in this industry.

is, and you know this, this is for people who are just checking in. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is the herd. Aaron Torres is our guest. He covers college basketball. He has his own show on Fox Sports Radio on the weekends kind of to spend some time with this. So the way it works is

they're not, you don't draft a guy and then he's traded, right? The trade is already agreed to and they're like, all right, you're going to draft this guy for us. So it's not just the ones you know about. There's a bunch of other ones. And so you get, when you're doing the when I've done it here or I've done the live feed going back at ESPN or when I was at CBS and we did stuff,

you get text from people like, no, that pick is actually for this team. And it's crazy confusing. And that's why the second round, you're just like, don't worry about who they say they're going to. Just analyze if you think the kid can play, if you think the kid can make the NBA. Which actually, go ahead, you were going to ask me something? What's that? You were going to say something. I think about the same thing about how confusing it is.

Yeah, I was going to say, I could have sworn, maybe I'm just confusing my drafts. I could have sworn, I've seen David Stern, maybe this was obviously now six, seven years ago, walk to the podium and say, we have a trait. Did I just imagine that? Yes, but he would do it. He would announce them after, like, well after the pick was made. Like, in an effort to not make it confusing for people there, he would, like, at the start of the second round or late in the first,

round, he would announce a trade for a pick that was earlier, even though everybody in the business already knew that somebody was selected for some other team. I actually, it's funny, I actually like, like, I thought the Celtics killed it last night. Romeo Langford at 14 is a really good pick, right? Like, super talented kid, you know, played hurt last year. Like, I, you know, and then they got Grant Williams. You talk about guys that have had to fill roles and culture guy. And then they got Carson Edwards and Trey Waters in the same.

second round. Like Carson Edwards will stay, he'll be in the NBA. I mean, I think they're preparing themselves and they freed up cap spaces. They're preparing themselves to probably go out and get a starting point guard. And it signifies to me that Terry Rozier is probably gone because I think he's more of a backup than he is a starter and they drafted two backups. So I kind like what the Celtics did. And I agree with you on the Golden State Warriors. Like Eric Pascal, That's a hybrid player. He can play inside out. He can shoot threes.

He can defend the rim. He's not Draymond. No one's ever accused of him being Dreemann. But he has a value and a versatility off the bench that they need for when Dremon's not in or for when Dremon is losing weight or if Dramon happens to leave in a year. A hundred percent. And that's kind of, like I said, what I like is teams that kind of stay on brand that have a plan. And obviously, like, the Warriors, look, we're getting to a point now.

Now, Steph's in his 30s. Katie, we don't know what his future is or what he's going to look like going forward. Draymond is inching towards 30. I think Clay, by the time he returns to the court, is going to be 30. And so I'm not saying any of these guys will replace those guys as superstar, all-star, you know, face of franchise guys. But you do have to start planning for that and preparing for that. And so I just like the idea that you get guys that kind of fit what you do.

Celtics, same deal. Like I think we're a lot of people, and I'm not saying everybody, I think a lot of smart people aren't, like I think we're pouring, you know, way too much dirt on the Celtics graves here. Like, I think Jason Tatum, like, yeah, he had a sophomore slump, but we saw him in the Eastern Conference final. Like, we saw what he's capable of. You know, Gordon Award, we'll see if he can come back from injury. But, you know, you get pieces, you get pieces that fit. As you said, Romeo Lankford, look, I think anybody who follows basketball has at least heard the name.

This was a guy where people were talking about as a top five pick last year and just didn't play well. And as you said, was injured, played through injury the entire season for the good of Indiana basketball. And so, like, you talk about an upside pick at the back end of the lottery. I think it's there. I like what the Celtics did in. And I just think as a general rule, I think we're pouring way too much dirt on their grave

just because it looks like Kyrie Irving won't be back on board. Okay. Give me a guy outside of the top three that you're convinced that is most likely to be an All-Star. Oh, most likely to be an All-Star. I'm just trying to think off the top of my head. You know, listen, Doug, I'll say this. I don't know if he'll be an All-Star, but number 30, Kevin Porter, okay, you know the deal with him. I was at the Hoop Summit game, and for people who don't know, Hoop Summit is an All-Star game.

Kevin Porter was kind of brought in just as kind of a sparring partner on a team of local players to play against Team USA with Cam Reddish and Darius Garland and guys like that. And he was the best player on the floor. I was in the gym. I was there. I saw it with my own two eyes. He had issues at USC, you know, from everything that I've gathered in that situation, it was a little bit of immaturity, being away from home.

We learned a lot about, you know, I don't want to be cliche here, but not having a father figure in his life. He's talked about that a lot. And I think he's just got some growing up to do. And I think that with what John Beeline can do, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that he's a top, you know, five to seven talent in this draft that went number 30 because of question marks. I think that he's a guy that jumps out to me as his skill relative to his draft position is just completely out of whack. I do get why he fell a little bit. It's legitimate reasons.

It's legitimate concerns. but he is one guy that jumps out to me as just he has real potential especially relative to where he was drafted. That's a fair point. Like I covered, I called three of his games this here at USC. And then, you know,

when you're doing a game, you should watch four or five games. And every time I watched, I was like, dude, why doesn't he play more? And then they run a play and he's in the wrong spot.

And then he comes out of the game and his body language is terrible. He doesn't guard anybody. but he's got juice in his legs. He's got a little hardened to his game. He is very, very confident. It's going to be fascinating. Especially because, you know, then you have, they drafted Garland,

and they have Garland. I guess they're going to plan to play Garland and Sexton together. You know, and then they also drafted Winler, the kid from Belmont, who can really shoot. And you're going to play for John Beeline. A kid who struggled to show up on time and be where he's supposed to be is going to play for John Beeline. like, okay, I'd like to see that reality show, but you're right.

If it hits, if it hits, it's a worthwhile investment. Aaron Torres, check them out every Saturday, eight at night on the West Coast, 11 at night on the East Coast with Arnie Spanner. It's a very good show. Aaron, great job. Thanks so much for joining us. Doug, appreciate the time, man. Have a good rest of the show.

You too. Let's get to rhyme music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Doug, as you and Aaron Torres were just discussing earlier, the hype around Zion Williamson is some of the stuff we haven't seen since LeBron James was coming out of high school. But let's pump the brakes a little bit on Zion as he prepares for his first season in the NBA.

By the way, cliche, pump the brakes, you're not supposed to pump the brakes anymore. Just want to point this out, right? Like, what do they tell you? When you have, what is it automatic? What's the braking, the anti-lock breaking? You're not supposed to pump your brakes anymore. Pumping your brakes is back. in the 80s when you didn't have

anti-life breaks. He'd pump the brakes. It would slow you down. But now you're supposed to jam on the brakes and they automatically pump themselves. I just want to make a point. I'm sorry. Always good to be clear. Yes. Let's take a moment to pause on the hype of Zion Williamson as he prepares for his first NBA season.

Take a listen to what Pelicans GM David Griffin said about his number one overall pick. This is Drew Holliday's team. Zion is going to be part of learning how to win at a really high level. And at some point, if there's a time that the baton gets passed in terms of who's expected to carry us to win games, it will. That's not now.

Let Zion be that kid. Don't write this like he's here to save this franchise. He's not. He's here to join this family, and we're here to raise each other. Zion, not ready to be the savior yet, according to David Griffin. Well, this is actually what I like best about Zion. Like, they didn't, at Duke, they played around RJ Barrett, right? Drew Holiday is a better player.

By the way, I've been on the Drewa Holiday bandwagon since he was back at Campbell Hall High School. Like, I freaking love watching Drew Holiday. He wrote that bus by yourself for quite a while, I think. A lot of people jumped off, and I've always been on. He's an unbelievable basketball family. He's a remarkable basketball talent. I don't think he's a point guard, which means, you know, you got two former UCLA guards back there. He'll be great.

That'll be the best passing backcourt in the NBA. because he's a he's not a superstar passer as a point, but as a two, he's a great passer. And then I think Lonzo Ball is an elite pastor in the NBA. That's passing backwards. And then you have a chance to be great defensively and great passing. The question is shooting and maturity. You also need to score points in the NBA.

That would be helpful. Yes, but when you have multiple guards, you have very good passers, your shooting percentage ultimately be higher. It's one of the things about small ball that people, some coaches struggle with. They're like, well, we give up offensive rebound. Yes, but all your shooting percentages will be higher. Your turnover should be lower because you're playing more guards.

More guards is better passing. And though you might not have one individual shooter that's better, overall your volume of quality shooters improves. I agree with it. The best thing about Zion is his game blends well. RJ Barrett is not a blend player. That's my concern if they get KD or they get Kyrie. RJ Barrett is give me the ball, give me a high ball screen,

everybody spread out and I'll make a play. And that might not work if you have KD or if you have Kyrie and K. I don't know where he fits, whereas Zion, you can basically put him on any team, and he's fine. He's fine. We'll wrap up with this, Doug. The Phillies gave Bryce Harper some serious cash in the offseason. Clown question, bro. It actually wasn't a question.

It was more of a statement. I know. After a decent start to the season, Harper and the Phillies have both fallen back. They lost to Harper's former team, the Nationals last night, what ended up being a three-game sweep. In an effort to stop this slump that they've been in, losing eight out of their last 10, they put Harper in the leadoff spot and their slugger, Reese Hoskins, batting second. How do you think that worked out?

Well, I know because I have the answers to the test. Not good, not good. They want to combine one for nine with four strikeouts. Now, this all sort of stems from Andrew McCutcheon. Used to bat leadoff. He's out with a season-ending knee injury, but it's a lot of money to Bryce Harper. And so far, it's not paying off great.

They're now in second place behind the Braves. And their bullpen's not good either, right? Like, why didn't they spend some money on Craig Kimberl? Why didn't they go out and fix that bullpen? Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is going to be fascinating, but it's a long season. I wouldn't put all the blame on Bryce Harper. And the big thing is, what's interesting is like,

look, in theory, getting your best hitter more times in the box seems like it should be a good thing long term. You just can't do short term. And he has let off before he let off some last year, I believe, with the Nats. as well. So it's not the first time. He's got to strike out less. He struck out three times last night.

Right. Yeah, Harper led off. Can't get the sombrero in your lead-up. No. Harper has hit lead-off 28 times with the Nationals, and he has struggled a bit. He only hits 217 with four home runs in batting in the lead-off spot.

And that's right. Music with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd-lie news. Ha, aha, aha, aha. Where will Kauai Leonard sign in pre-agency? I have the answer.

Sort of. I'll explain next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever, you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possess. of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch life becomes about wins and losses Steve Burns Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid because that's two different intentions bro absolutely and that that's two different levels of trust I want you to just really be a good person join me Keer gains is we have real conversations about healing growth fatherhood pressure and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway.

Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office, Blue, 42. Hey, Red. My mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boke.

On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Polisic. I'm not worried about. Balagan, I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers,

he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen, inside American soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever you get your podcast. Doug Ghalyven for Colin, this is The Hurt and Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app. This from Adrian Ward Janowski, no, it's not a, it's not somebody who's going to be, what are they focusing on?

Right, that was his way of tipping picks last night. My wife was, she was all over me. She's like, are you watching the draft or looking at your phone? I was like, both. Both. She's like, you're not a gecko. Am I?

Am I? Am I? Like, ah, I can. I can know what's going to happen based upon my friends in the league. They're texting me and Wojew's texting me. So I will do the self-pat on the unfortunate fall from grace for Bull Bowl, 7'3, had a cup of coffee at Oregon before breaking his foot earlier this year. And I was tipped off by a couple of different guys.

One GM texted me and said, I said, who's, I actually said who are you guys looking at. And he's like, I'll tell you who we're not looking at. He said, bowl, bowl is sliding. And I said, why? He said, you know why. I said, yeah, there's some off-the-court stuff. And is it the foot or the fact that he doesn't bend his knees when he plays basketball?

He's like a little bit of both. And confirmed with it. Some people said they had no medical issues. It was more off-the-court stuff. Some said it was medical stuff. But there's enough there where everybody's like, yeah, no. and honestly, like, is the human body supposed to be 7'3 playing NBA basketball running up and down?

It is fascinating how the league has changed, right? If you go back 10 years ago, right, Hashim the, remember Hashim the beat went number two overall? That wasn't a mistake or anything, was it? But you used to be big, you know, Bruno Fernando would be a top 10 pick. Top 10 pick. Look, there are some things in life that we discuss. we really don't know much about.

Right? Like, have you ever had a legit conversation with your investment guy over exactly what he's doing with your portfolio? Anybody ever had this? Well, I got some ETFs and, you know, we got some low-interest stuff and we got to, I'm like, are we making more money than the, are we a little bit ahead of the market curve? Yes.

Good. am I paying less in taxes based upon the money that I'm making than I should? Yes. Okay, keep doing that. I got no idea how it works. And then what I do is I get my, send me what I'm all invested in. And then I send it to a buddy of mine who does it for a living. And I was like, does this look reasonable?

Yes, this is all good stuff you're in. I'd move this to that. And then I, you know, I reword it. And I'm like, here's what I like. to do. I got no idea how it works. It's like you pop open the hood and you're like, I got nothing. I do, I know how to change the oil. I can change an air filter. I can check the oil. But like if a belt is bad,

like spark plug, good luck. Good luck. That's how I feel about Kauai Leonard. Right? Like we all feel like we know. You know, like yeah, it feels like maybe he stays in Toronto. or he goes to the Clippers. This is from Agent Worgianowski. Kauai Leonard will meet with the 76ers now. In addition to the Clippers, the Knicks and the Nets,

we have no clue. No one has any sort of clue. Like we think it's the Clippers because his uncle apparently told the Spurs he won out and up in L.A. He's from Southern California. And the Clippers were walking around telling everybody, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming.

But like, do they really know? Well, we all just nodding our head like Lemming's going like, yeah, yeah, that sounds really, really good. Really good. It's like fixing the NCAA. Everyone said, well, we need to fix the NCAA. Well, the NCAA is just a governing body made up of the member schools and they all have their own things that are important to them. And you got to take into account the fact you have tax-free status and you want to remain as such. In addition to the fact that you have to have Title IX,

so any opportunity that's given to a male athlete, you've got to give to a female athlete. Like, we all look at it linear. And we're all like, well, you made money, and the players didn't get it. Like, no, you're getting less money from the state than you've ever gotten for college athletics. When people donate to college athletics and to universities,

they don't get a tax write off anymore. Thanks to your boy at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Oh, I didn't think of that. No, you didn't because you looked at it linearly. You're like, all right, problem, let's solve it. Like, there's so many other things you have no idea about. No idea about. Which is the same thing with Kauai Leonard.

We don't know how much his girlfriend and baby play a factor into it. We don't know if he cares about the clippers or if he wants to be in a big market like New York or if he likes the idea of staying in Toronto. We have no idea. So we react to the news. 76ers, really? that doesn't seem to fit. Or maybe it does. Sometimes we make mistakes and they can make changes. We'll fix them next.

One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. What up. Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be in, however you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin Cowher. live from Los Angeles on the epicenter of the I-Heart Radio headquarters for the next two hours, two more hours, you got me.

You know, Colin often talks about how quarterbacks, a quarterback is a position of a leadership, right? And there is that, they can all throw it, they can all spin it, But it's how do you lead? How do you, in fact, how do you, in fact, lead? Like, I mean, Jay Cutler is the perfect example. I've shared this with people before. But when he was in Chicago, at the end of his run with the Bears,

they actually took his locker out of the locker room because other guys disliked him so much. And everybody knows Jay Cutler can throw a football. Like, Jay Cutler can spin it like it's nobody's business. Yogi Berra, what do you say, that baseball is 50% physical, 75% mental, right? Which is, like sports, especially positions of leadership. It is, you know, 50% physical and 75% leadership. We're about to hit free agency bonanza.

And though it doesn't appear to be as much fun as we thought it would be, it's still going to be. there's still going to be guys that get contracts like, what? Huh? How much? And when you look at it, you sit there and go, all right, what do you do if you're the Brooklyn Nets? So the Brooklyn Nets, they honestly and truthfully believe that their culture is so good.

Remember, it's established they hired Sean Marks who comes in from San Antonio, you know, play to Cal, Aussie, guideway about him. Now, here's a guy who understands what they've done in San Antonio. Let's kind of create that same thing. And he made chicken salad out of chicken, you know what. He inherited an absolute abject disaster. And then early on they took on bad contracts and you're like, what are they doing?

Hired Kenny Adkinson and, man, it kind of came together this year. And so the thought is if you have the culture already established. established, you can now bring in a star, kind of like what the Clippers are doing, bring in a star, they'll absorb the culture. So the Lakers will reportedly meet with DeAngelo Russell, which I'll get to him in a second. The Nets are reportedly worried about only signing Kyrie Irving to a max contract without another star like Kevin Durant to pair with him. Like, yeah, we heard about Kyrie and the Kyrie thing when he's the guy,

and we're not that big a fan of the Kyrie thing. I'll defend Kyrie from this argument. Right. From this argument. Do I think Kyrie Irving is a leader? I don't. I don't think Kyrie knows exactly who he is. I think he knows what he wants to be.

I'm not sure he knows exactly how to get there. Right. It's like you ever had that dream destination that you want to, man, I really want a vacation in Croatia. How are you going to get there? How are you going to get the time to get away? Where are you going to stay? Like, I have no idea.

I just know that at some point in the very near future, I want to vacation in Croatia. It looks gorgeous. And because it hasn't been, you know, the destination for other people until recently, kind of doesn't sound crazy expensive. Weather's nice. People are nice. I might be able to get away with speaking English. All right.

How do you get there? No idea. I mean, I'm sure I could fly to New York and then from New York fly to Croatia, but that sounds expensive. And then stopping in Europe sounds really, really long. I don't know how I'm going to get there. I don't know how I'm going to do it. Get that much time off work. But at some point in time, I want to do it. That's Kyrie Irving with becoming a superstar. I made a movie and people like me, but for whatever reason, I'm not viewed as one of the top 10 players in the NBA. I'm just not. Now, I'll give Kyrie the past from from this perspective.

It's not just Kyrie that led to the downfall of the Celtics. It's not. I shared a story about Kyrie and one of the questions he asked of Brad Stevens early this year. And Twitter took it and it's become pretty funny, right? Because he walked in one day in a film and asked Brad Stevens, what do you think the word government means? I mean, look, the other example that was given me from Boston people is go back and watch the series against the bucks,

how many times he switched off and he's guarding Janus. And like, if it looked weird to you, it looked weird to everybody on the Celtics bench or in the Celtics brass. It's in fact what Terry Rozier was talking about. Their whole defensive game plan

was a lot like the Warriors and how they hide Steph Curry. They wanted to hide Kyrie Irving. Some of it, because he's not a very good defender, some of it because you want to rest him as well at defense. Because on offense, that's where he can lead the team. And you go back and watch, and there's some instances where all of a sudden,

Janice is being guarded by Kyrie Irving. Man up, spread court, like, no, that's not what we want. But it's because Kyrie's ego was in the way. He doesn't know who he is. But I'll give him this bit of a pass. You know, look, could you have seen the fact that when his knee was bothering him, they'd take out the metal and then they'd find out the scrubs. in his knee, one of them was infected. Who saw that coming? Could you have seen Gordon Hayward break

his leg in half? Who could have seen that coming? Who could have seen them advancing in the playoffs to the Eastern Conference finals without either? And because they had had a pre-established culture before he got there, and because Brad Stevens was beloved by star players, including LeBron James, and earned the respect of LeBron and others in the NBA, and because they had succeeded on some level without him, got to a game seven of the Eastern Conference Finals without their two highest paid stars. When he returned, he wasn't just fighting over the,

is it conch or conch? Did we establish what that is, Lord of the Flies? You know, whoever has the conch or conch actually was in control of all the other boys. Wasn't just fighting over the conch, conch, whatever. Like he's fighting against the, hey, we were better without you. and without Gord.

And then he's also dealing with the, they're trying to play Gord and Hayward too much because they paid him a bunch of money and they were trying to have him ready for the playoffs and he wasn't good enough to be getting the minutes, which cuts down on everybody else's minutes and cuts down on their shots, which cuts down their points, and they are ticked.

That's not on on Kyrie Irving. That's on bad luck, on bad management, on coaches that are unable to kind of share the message of why and what exactly they're doing. But let's be honest, if you're the Brooklyn Nets, aren't you just a little bit cautious of the reputation that he has? A little bit?

Aren't you just sit there going like, wait, we got a good thing going here? We got a good thing going here. Yeah, maybe we're a player away from competing for a championship or at least putting ourselves in that discussion. And if Toronto loses Kauai, like, man, that steps us up. And we add somebody, they lose somebody. But yeah, they should rightfully be concerned. because he came across like an A-hole all year long.

And when you come across that way enough, your reputation becomes established, it's really hard to climb out of. The same goes for DeAngelo Russell. Like, wait, the Lakers are going to meet with him? The previous coaching staff told somebody close to me that he was their least favorite Laker they had ever been around. and the guys that I was talking to had been around the Lakers a long time. He was a combination of being entitled and not being nearly as good as he thought.

Plus, he wanted to be a leader, a lot like Kyrie, but he was a hangout guy, like to go out at night and do the Hollywood thing, and then he would do the worst thing, which is like bring the other guys with him. So none of them got their work done. All of them were hangout guys. and yeah he made the all-star team as a replacement and he did absorb the culture of Brooklyn but wouldn't there be a buyer beware

if Brooklyn doesn't offer him a big contract and they just had unforeseen success and he was their best score like wouldn't that tell you all you need to know about how Brooklyn feels about him are we really going to do this again we're like, no, DeAngelo's different. And I do think that he's different.

I do think that he's matured some. But he is a volume guy. You know, there's a reason that they tied their ship to Spencer Dinwiddie instead of him. And a lot like the Celtics, the Celtics, they don't want to lose Kyrie, but they're not all that bum that he's gone. The Nets don't want to lose DeAngelo, but they're not going to be all that bum that he's gone. Shouldn't that tell you something if your other team? James? Tell me something. I have yet to see a leopard change his spots. On the other hand, should be pointed out that adult leopards do have a little bit different coat than baby

leopards have, right? Is that fair? Like baby animals, they don't change, their markings don't change, but the hair or the fur does get, you know, more coarse, more worn in. That's the question for DeAngelo and that's the question for Kyrie. Can Kyrie and DeAngelo, process all the things that people have said about them throughout their career and use that to energize them to becoming better teammates, better leaders. If they can, yeah, not everybody is born a leader and you can't improve in your leadership and your maturation process. Like, that's reasonable. On the other hand, they both have their defaults, right? Reset to default. And both guys, when reset to default are, you guys just stand there. I'll go do it myself.

And I don't know how it fits in the culture of the other two teams. Jay Billis joins the show next. He was the first one to tell me, Zion, we had dinner last summer. And he said, he said, have you seen Zion play in person? Said, nope. See him on YouTube?

I didn't go to that matchup with La Mello Ball. He's like, you're going to love him. And then mid-season, or actually early in the season, he started calling him a phenomenon. And I thought it was a little much. and it turns out he's right. What are reasonable expectations immediately for Zion Williamson?

And who's Jay think did the best last night? We'll ask him. He joins us upcoming next. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed the game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

Highlights are trending. opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear.

The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games.

And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing.

And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. point game is about defining the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game.

His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed.

He has to guard Julie. it's random. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah.

You figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is the herd. The man you heard or saw breaking down all the picks last night on ESPN is their league college basketball analyst. He's Jay Billis.

He's kind of have to spend some time with us here on Fox Sports Radio. You've been doing this for a long time. I remember 2003. I was doing the radio side in 2003. And I remember when, you know, the day before they have all those press conferences and Dwayne Wade came in and he had a great smile and a great presence. and Carmelo Anthony had good control of the room. And Chris Bosch was a little bit more reserved, but quiet.

And then LeBron walked in and you're like, that's different than any other kid I've ever talked or thought about. Is Zion the same in terms of that type of presence that he has in a room? Forget about what happens when he takes the basketball floor. Anything I've ever seen, especially considering he was out of high school, played at the ABCD camp against Lenny Cook. I would say it will be agreeing out, but I've never seen any. I don't think he's the best player.

I'm hard to take your eyes off him. And, you know, our ratings, basketball ratings were up this last year, in large measure because of Zion. It wasn't because we had really good promos all of a sudden. People saw it, and they wanted to see more of it. And that's really the ultimate test for a player. Yeah, I remember I saw you early in the year, and you said he's a phenomenon. And I thought that was for you, like you're not a hot take.

big statement sort of guy. Like, you're just very matter of fact about it. And you were right. It was a phenomenon. I did the Louisville game on radio, and I watched people gather around when he's just coming out to warm up. And I'm like, I get that it's dunking,

but it's more just people just want to see. I guess the biggest fear is the weight and, you know, like the shoe that exploded against Carolina. That embodies the torque that he's putting on his knees, his ankles, his hips, his back every time he plants. Is that, is that your biggest concern? Well, I think it is with any player that you think is stuff that you're going,

okay, well, the only thing is much about, you know, his size and the shoe thing. I got bombarded on social media after the game, or if anybody really, really, and I kind of harkened back a little bit to 07 when, and obviously the game was back on that now that somehow the trail. You know, I don't remember anybody, any, that if it did happen, found. secret. You mentioned Greg Oden. Bruno Fernando goes in the second round.

I mean, we see something that, like, the league has changed so remarkably. Like, I think bowl bowl, some of it was injuries, some of it was other stuff, but like during the time in which you've done this, how remarkable is the 180 the league has done in that

basically, you know, I think Zion's a 6, 6, 5, and a 6, 6, 6, 6, and 6, 6, and 6 6 in bare feet. You know, power forward, small ball center, whereas you go back 15 years ago and people would have said, well, he's got to be a three, you know, at his size, he's got to lose some weight and be a three. How much has the league changed and evolved over the past couple of years? Yeah, that's another, like you brought

up O3 with the LeBron draft talking about Zion, but if you really went back to them at the time was, you know, all things being equal go with size. It was, it was, Jay, excuse me, I'm sorry, the line I was always told was, in the NBA, they said, if you're going to, you're going to make a mistake, make a big mistake. Yeah. That's what they would say. Anyway, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Well, like, I think it's going to make now. Yeah. And so in that short of time, and, you know, that would have been draft. I think I've been a little bit quicker to adjust the fact that everybody's figured out, you know, changed everything. And that, I don't know the true definition of revolutionized, but I think you actually nailed it, right? It has revolutionized everything.

It's completely changed how we look at, like defensive rotations. I mean, this is maybe too much. much in the weeds, but when you and I grew up, not even you and I grew up, again, when I first started in this business, if you're in the corner and a guy drove on your side, you're helping and then recovering, now you never help off the strong side. Like it's totally, totally changed the sport. I want to ask you about R.J. Barrett, because we came into the year thinking that he was going to be the guy that everybody was fighting over. There are some people that think he's a little selfish. He didn't shoot it as well as as you would have hoped. On the other

hand, we all know the NBA game is much more wide open. And you would think you give him the ball, you spread it out, you give him NBA caliber shooters, and he can go back to being as dominant and as much of a breakthrough player as he was in international basketball and before he entered Duke. What do you think of RJ Barrett? What will he look like the next couple years in a Knicks uniform. You know, the one thing he doesn't, you know, he shoots a good, and he was 31. I think if he, you know, that's the one. How do I know that?

That was my, that was my hope. Personal experience on our games, otherwise I wouldn't be able to talk about running and rebounding or anything. I wish, that was my argument. That was my argument. Like, as a terrible shooter in college, like, look, if I get to the pros, I'll be decent, right? Because just, but you're totally right on it.

Okay, I noticed you threw in a Vilnius and a Hunt for Red October line, yes, which is one of my favorite movies. I always some reason that sticks out in my brain from when I saw the movie Hunt for Red October, because that's where Rameas is from. Right. And in the second round, I was for it to be over because it took an extraordinarily long time last night. Yes. The first, I don't know what it was, but the first round took forever. And in the second round, you know, usually, and I just couldn't help it. I just threw that in because it helped me be unflappable Reese Davis.

So just a little bit of fun, you know, my own personal fun. Yeah, you also had a sound of music line in there, too. That was really, that was, I mean, that was, now you're really getting kind of. It was more Austin B. It should have been more Austin Powers because that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that suit was, was Hey Baby and behave. I mean, that thing was brutal. You know, you can't imagine Tyler here.

No, no, it's going to be one of those. Like, well, I was just a kid from Wisconsin in New York for the first time. Like, all right, dude, but, yeah. That's got to be top ensembles. And there have been some bad ones. Samaki Walker's hat, right? And Jalen Rose's red suit. Yeah, but you look really not so big.

It may be a little bit fun. It's worth the same. And we were weird. or 97. And he looked like a banker. And then last night he was wearing a Redson. Yeah. Help me out with this.

So the NCAA passed a rule that you could, all these kids could go back to college that weren't drafted last night. The problem is that the NBA and the NBA PA deems them to be free agents. So theoretically, even if you went back to college, they could be drafted out of a college They could be signed out of a college program in January and then join an NBA team. People have wanted to put you in charge of college basketball and college athletics in the past. I'll put you in charge of the NBA and the NBA draft. Would you be open to the idea of you don't get drafted last night, you can go back to college?

I'd be drafting players and be like they park them overseas or park them in the G League if they wanted to. You know, I don't see a problem with that. I mean, the thing that sort of at the NCAA, if you reclass and you can come in, you know, like how many of those guys last night that got drafted in a major? Probably very few of North Carolina who grew up more at the end of your sophomore. Now, I'm not saying that's a horrible negative or they shouldn't be in college or any of that nonsense. But if we really think college is a good thing, the NCAA should be. And then if they're there, you know, because you've established, like,

I think it's been good for Zion Williamson to be in college. some Pollyanna guy. I think it's been a good thing. And I think I think he's more likely to come back. He's got a relationship with the university. And I don't think that's a bad thing. You know, the Carmel and he was there for it. I think we should be thinking along those lines rather than putting up stop signs and barrier points. I couldn't agree with you more. I think they actually have. I think the NCAA does a terrible job of promoting it to the public, right? I honestly think that's a big part of it. Is that like now you can come back and you can actually be on the court coaching as like a GA on scholarship, you know, as, you know, anytime, any time you want to come back.

And I just, I just think they do a terrible job of celebrating those, their success stories and of some of the things, some of the barriers that they have broken down. All right. Last thing, I need you to fix. The hat thing, right? Like, the greatest moment in these kids' lives is you get drafted, you put on the hat, and you shake the hands of the commissioner, right? But the problem is, you get all these trades that take place.

and poor Reese, like his head is spitting. I don't know how, you have no idea how to, do I talk about the player? Do I talk about it? You do a great job. Let me just tell you about the player. Forget about how he fits because we don't know what team he's actually drafted for. But the picture of when he's shaking hands with Adam Silver, forever now, it's going to be a guy with a hat that he, DeAndreya Hunter's not a Laker. He's never been a Laker.

He'll never be a Laker, yet he has a Lakers hat on. How do we fix this problem? Yeah, and drafted by the Lakers. That's problem when you watch the NFL dress. You know when they draft somebody, well, okay, this guy's going to the Patriot over it, and you're going, now wait a minute, remind me. So this guy's going to do it that way for a long time. The one of it, but now that you've got guys like Loge reporting this stuff,

and they don't have to, well, how this guy fits. And then 10 minutes later, you'd find out, well, he's not going there. And, you know, like the end with you, I just don't know that there's any quick, the thing where this process and figure out what the right thing to do is. That's becoming a sport itself. That's covered more than parts of the season is. and it's amazing how they've done that. It's a year-round sport now.

Well, listen, we'll see it in Southern California this summer. In the meantime, take a good respite. You've earned it. Thanks so much for being our guest. All right, brother, see you soon. All right, Jay Billis, lead college basketball wellness for ESPN. You saw him on the coverage of the NBA draft last night. Let's get you to Ryan Music with the news.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Herdline News. A lot of NBA draft talk there. between you and Jay Billis, Doug. Let's talk some NFL. Saints wide receiver Michael Thomas wants to get absolutely paid. We discussed this before.

First, the Saints were comfortable making them the highest paid wide receiver in the NFL. Then they were still far apart of on a deal. Now we know some of the numbers. So according to Jeff Duncan of nola.com, Thomas is looking for $22 million a year in his next contract. That's a whole lot of money. Currently, the highest paid wide receiver is Odo Becum Jr., $18 million a year, which, according to Duncan, is where the Saints are currently standing at. Okay, so why does he think he's going to, he's going to completely,

every guy who's ever said, like, I'm going to change the position and how they look at us. Like, or not, or not, right? I mean, O'Don Beckham Jr. getting that much money slightly changed. what people were looking at. It did, and by the way, the Giants got out of that deal, like after paying... It's not like people are looking and they're going like, you know what? That was a good deal from the Giants. It's a terrible deal.

It's a good deal now for the Browns because they didn't have to pay that first year and some of the bonus in that first year. Well, and the problem with Odo Beckham Jr., this is all about, and you've talked about this before in many respects in sports, which is someone else signs a really bad deal, and then this other team feels like they're then forced to give another bad deal because it's set of precedent. which goes back to the Chiefs completely overpaying for Sammy Watkins.

Right. He made $16 million. They're like, Sammy Watkins. He stinks. Right. He's like the fourth best wide receiver in the Rams. He's not healthy. Like, you gave him $16 million.

Technically the Chiefs were the team that paid him. But yes. Yes, but when he's with the Rams and he signed there as a free agent, and even with the Chiefs, like he's there, what, fourth best pass catching threat? If they have Tyree Kill, like whoever they're running back is. And they have an elite team. tight end and Tyreek Hill and then Sammy Watkins.

So it's great. Jay Billis was talking about Austin Powers. He wants $22 million. I want a solid gold toilet, babe, but it's just not in the cards. All right. We'll finish up with this sticking in the NFL here, Doug. Redskins quarterback, Alex Smith, still hopes

to return to the NFL in his first interview since severely breaking his leg last season. He spoke to Fox TV in Washington, D.C. He was asked about playing again. He said, quote, that's the plan. I have to conquer some more steps before I get there. But yeah. He explained that he still has what

is called an external fixator, which is that sort of halo light cast. It kind of looks like when people break their neck. So he has these rods sticking out of it drilled into his leg. He said, this save my leg, save my bone, allows me to heal and walk again.

Walking again and playing quarterback in the NFL. Alex Smith was a great athlete. And I've been told he won't play football again. And I would guess, based upon what the Redskins have done, acquiring two backup quarterbacks, or one, KSkin

was a starter last year, and then drafting Dwayne Haskins, they're not planning on him playing again. So this is one of those hope for the best but expect the worst. I would say that, though he became kind of captain checkdown, like Alex Smith went from

over-rated, obviously when the Niners drafted him instead of Aaron Rogers to to this, you know, seven different offensive coordiners in seven different years to wildly underrated, took them to an NFC championship game, and if not for fumbles by his kick returner twice, he takes the Niners to Super Bowl.

And then, you know, he resurrects the Chiefs. And then, you know, Pat Mahomes, who's just more talent than him takes over. And they were a playoff team with the Redskins before he got hurt. So, wildly, wildly underrated career. Great dude. great athlete, obviously great brain, solid as the day is long.

I think he's played his last NFL game. And it makes me sad to say so, but I've just heard that leg injury is so severe. As you were saying, they were the best team in the NFC East when he broke his leg. Then they obviously got passed up by the Cowboys. And the Eagles, as you were saying also, he is 35 right now. So this idea that he's obviously, I don't think, playing next season. No. So by the time that he is healthy and he's going to be 36.

36, 37. And I know we think like, oh, Tom Brady's going to play until he's 40. He's not Tom Brady. And the fact that he's going to come back from a major injury after missing two to maybe three years and then be almost 40 is likely not happening. It's possible when they say, I want to thank the doctors for saving my leg so I can walk again. That doesn't create the, and the team acquires two quarterbacks, one that was the starter last year, one that's going to be their future starter. everything around you tells you no one expects him unfortunately to return. And that's Ryan Music with the News.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Baseball may try sister wives. I'll explain next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind.

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Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This line.

You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, ref. My mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano and our podcast Point Game

is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before.

And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid.

He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug Gottlieven for Colin, this is The Hurt on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. So we discussed this story a little bit yesterday, and people have talked a lot about it. It's the idea that the Tampa Rays, it's the Tampa Rays, not like Tampa Bay Rays, right? In Tampa Rays, I don't know, the Rays are at least allowed to start exploring the possibility of having two cities to call their home. No, it's not Tampa and St. Pete. It's Tampa and Montreal. Of course, Montreal lost the expos.

They lost the expos to the Washington Nationals. And Tampa has struggled to get a new stadium. And Tampa has struggled in many ways to fill the stadium that they have. And this is not like an open marriage. Like an open marriage or what's known as the deal. right? Which I've heard discussed, but I don't think actually exists. No, it doesn't mean that you can play in Tampa and they can play a couple games in Portland

and a couple series in Austin and a couple series in Montreal and, you know, go around the country and, you know, play two series in a row. Although that's not a crazy idea to me. This feels like sister wives. There's the baseball team and there's, two different wives, right? There's the Tampa wife and there's the Montreal wife. And they know the other one exists.

And they both try and cover for the other ones in adequacies. And I don't think it's crazy to think it just might work, right? Tax-wise, you want to stay away from those Canadian taxes. And I'm sure there's a way to do it where the business is actually located in Florida. No state income tax, right? It saves your money. additionally Tampa knows they need a stadium

but based upon time of year and look if they build one with a retractable roof it's way way way more expensive instead of an open air stadium so if you play in Tampa earlier in the year and then you go to Montreal during times you know during the wet monsoonal season

monsoonle flow season then all of a sudden that changes things. But here's the way I think it could actually work. Major League baseball teams make a ton of money. They are cash cows. And I think in truth, if they could, they would go to 32 teams. I don't know in terms of the talent, the cities, whatever, but more teams, more money. And on a grander scale than the MLS, they are wildly popular. They draw three to four million people. They draw three to four million people in most reasonable markets. And the thing about Tampa is not only they struggle to draw, but it's 81 home games.

If you cut that down to 40, would you have a higher percentage of capacity because there's less inventory? Now, you have to balance that out with a stadium that's going to need more than 40 days filled. The same is true with Montreal. Think about bringing a team back to Montreal. and it would be beloved. Would you have a chance of filling it to capacity more if there's just 40 home games as opposed to 81 home games?

But the big way they make their money is with the regional sports network, right? And if it would allow you to have two regional sports networks, wouldn't it be a genius business model? I don't think this is an open marriage. I think this is sister wives. And though, why do I need another wife to tell me that, I need to lock the doors every night and take out the trash? Maybe it works in baseball.

This is The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Welcome in. This is The Herd. Wherever you may be in, however you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much.

I'm Doug Gottlie, peeling in for Colin Cowherd, live from World. Los Angeles. I Heart Radio or Fox Sports Radio. Back on TV. Uncle Colin is back on Monday. He is tanned. He is fired up. He is ready for...

Everybody has a season now, and season apparently is spelled S-ZN. Like, this is actually kind of my dream. I'm not going to lie to you. I am a terrible speller. I have always been a terrible speller. And so the fact that we are able to get away with, though being T-H-O and season being S-Z-N,

kind of like it, kind of doesn't challenge me. On the other hand, I do wonder why we changed, I don't know if you guys know this, but in the Webster's Dictionary, under the definition of literally, there is a new definition that is actually means figuratively. But because people misuse literally so often and use figuratively as literally,

they've actually changed dictionary definition. I kid you not. I believe the children are our future, and if that is true, do not let them lead the way. I don't care what late, great Whitney Houston said. All right, last night's NBA draft gave us what all NBA drafts give us, which is a bizarre conglomerant of suits and look at me attires. Tyler Hero, look, I like you. I'm glad you went before, Kelden Johnson and other guys. I think you got a chance, right? It's always beware of the white wing. That's a really hard to try and that's a where's Waldo

in the NBA that are very few that have survived. He might just have the game and swag to pull it off. But that gear last night whoo! That was one that you're going to look back. And money you have this, right? You went to prom and you chose to get the white tuxedo. Like no, just get

the black tuxedo and the black bow tie and the black vest. Don't do the white tuxedo. But no, Tather Hero. has to go some sort of suit, Miami Vice undershirt, and a run DMC, Mr. T-starter kit necklace. Like, not a strong look, but he can still play, so it doesn't matter. We are all Zionists. No, I do not believe.

Now, I'm talking about my religion. I'm talking about our belief in Zion Williamson. And I started the show saying, like, look, we all freaked out over the depth of picks that the Helicans got in addition, in addition to the three Lakers they got, two of whom are starters and Josh Hart has started, but really more of a bench player. But now that the draft has taken place and you take a breath and you're like, look, I like Jackson Hayes, but he feels like he's two or three years away. You know, and Nikiel Alexander Walker in a draft that didn't have great depth did in fact go

17th. They drafted a kid out of Brazil who might be a player. But the idea is this. The draft is not getting older. was older this year, but it's going to get younger. Once the one and done is gone, you're drafting 18-year-olds, and you're just hoping. And that's what New Orleans plan is. And those picks at the time, like, man, wow, those are big picks.

And you're like, yeah, or it's a crapshoot. Where's the Lakers? Like, we got the better player. We won the trade. The other stuff, the salary cap stuff, I like Jackson Hayes. I actually forecast that if you have a team where you have Lonzo Ball and Drew Holiday, great defenders at the guard positions. And Brandon Ingram,

long, versatile defender, and Zion Williamson, guard all five positions, defend the rim, can guard point guards. And then maybe eventually a Jacksonese, like, that's a great defensive team. But like, they're not winning an NBA championship. Whereas the Lakers put themselves in position

to compete at least for a championship. One, because they had LeBron James, but two, because they got one of the five best players in the league. It feels like a fair trade. I started thinking there's no price that's too high. Then I was thinking, man, maybe they paid too much. And now the draft takes place and I realized how depleted the reserves are of college basketball

and soon of high school basketball. And I'm left thinking it was a lot. But man, Anthony Davis can really play and you had to make the move and you couldn't wait until after the draft. It had to get done. And it feels like the Indiana-Okloma City trade. Where at the time you're like, I don't really know. Seems like a fair trade. even as much as San Antonio did not want to trade

maybe the best player in the game in Kauai Leonard. The fact is he didn't want to be there. He had one year left. They weren't going to win a title this year, especially without Dejante Murray. You know, and they continue to try and rework themselves. I'm not sure that wasn't a fair trade. Because they have, and they're going to continue to have,

DeMar de Rosen. With that, we bring in Rick Buecker, You may have heard him last night on Fox Sports Radio's NBA draft coverage. He, Chris Broussard and Jason McIntyre. Of course, you can read his work in Bleacher Report. You can see him on Fox Sports One. And he's filling in for me later. Maybe I'll appear on my show as his guest as he fills in for me.

I like that. That would be confusing. And he's got a cool Bleacher Report jacket. You guys get jackets? We got these. The number of people in the media who have said, you know what? I'm not supposed to say this. I had a guy from the athletic say it.

I'm not supposed to say this. I really like that jacket. I do like the jacket. Simple, clean, a little BR on the side. I mean, like, look, I could get into, I thought it was weird that Minnesota went all the way to 11 to get Cam Johnson, who's like 24 years old, can really shoot. But that feels like a little bit of a reach. I mean, what jumped out to you about the NBA draft? Essentially, the first point that you made is the fact.

that these guys are so young and that a lot of the picks particularly later on in the 20s was really about and even when I was checking with teams, okay, why did you take this guy or why did they take this guy? And it was we think he can do this down the line. It was so much

upside and potential as opposed to things that guys are going to be able to do for them right now. And which makes a lot of sense. I mean, we've really we do this every year. The NBA draft is supposed to be the solution for everyone's problems. And it really depends on the draft class. There are two, maybe three guys that have all-star

potential down the line. I'm saying down the line at the top of the draft, maybe throw in a fourth one somewhere, somewhere someone's going to pop up. The rest of them, you're hoping that you're getting a solid role player. That's that's through the the first half of the draft. I do think that one of the things that skews people is that they take the raw data of stats. Look, I think

Trey Young was pretty good this year. Yes. But what you don't understand is they weren't trying to win games. They were playing at the fastest pace in the NBA. So a higher volume of possessions. Numbers are going to be inflated.

Numbers are inflated. And like I don't, I don't know where he'll ultimately land, but I'm not convinced that, like, do I think he's the next Steph? I don't as of yet. Well, that's the thing. We've gone stupid with the comparison. Well, no, no, but, but, I mean, like, look, I don't think that's stupid. I think the way in which he is, people have tried to say, well, he's like Steve Nash. He's not Steve Nash. No. Okay. But he's not Steph either. No, but that's who his game patterns after. The GM comes from Golden State.

Like, their plan is clearly, like, let's try and do that exact same thing. I get that. And the shots he takes are previously thought as low percentage shots and Steph's gotten away with it. And so he's going to be able to get away with it. Like, there are a lot more parallels than you think. No, no, no. I'm not saying that there aren't parallels. The problem is that when people say he's the next Steph Curry or it gets translated from his game is like Steph Curry to he can be Steph Curry.

He's not going to be a two-time League MVP. Steph Curry wouldn't be a two-time league MVP if he weren't paired with Clay Thompson and Draymond Green in the Constitution of that team. So that's where we're putting Zion Williamson and the LeBron James camp. People are not, and we got into

this on the show last night. Immediately Jason and Chris were talking about, well, these are the numbers that LeBron put up as a rookie. People aren't saying he's going to be LeBron as a rookie. They're saying he's going to be LeBron. And that's where I think we go way off the track. Zion Williamson, whatever he's going to be, and he could be great, is not going to be LeBron James. I can guarantee you that. Very, very, very, very, very unlikely.

No, he's not going to be LeBron James. It's very, very, very, very, very unlikely. He's not. He's not going to be LeBron James. He's not going to nine. consecutive NBA finals. That's true. He's not going to be a playmaker per se. That's not what he is. He's not going to be a point forward. He could be a dynamic player playing with a playmaker. And I frankly should have joined you guys last night.

But you know what? You said that to me before the show started. Enough with it already. Yes, you should have and you didn't. So stop with the Miacopa. I threw five innings of BP to my son's All-Star baseball team last night. It was rewarding. It was great.

Is this supposed to make me feel better? My shoulder... Five innings of BP to your son are the reason that you didn't do the show? Their entire team. That's... Now I'm supposed to go... Oh, well, now I understand. So here's...

Let's talk Zion for a second. Okay. What do you think he is in the NBA? Ultimately. I think he's a great number two. I think he's a... With a point... You know what it is?

Ideally, he's... And people are going to take this as... Just say it. Nobody's going to take it as... He's an athletic... David West. David West? Yes.

I think he's an athletic Dremon Green. The question for me is so much of what Dramon Green does... Fastball IQ. ...is his understanding of the game. And I don't have any reference point. Zion may know the game to that level. But nothing at Duke would tell me that he knew, he knows the game at that level because he wasn't asked to do it.

Fair. And again, this is a little bit like this is the hard part of this draft. Like, let me, I'll come back around to Zion in a second and you'll understand the comparison. Darius Garland had a workout for the Lakers. And the guys that were in that gym were like, well, that's Damien Lillard. That's who he's like. But now if we compare him to Damien Lillard, Damian Lillard was his whole life.

He was a two guard in Oakland. He goes to Weber State. He was there four years because he redshirted one year. And then he comes out to the NBA draft. So he was far more refined. So is Darius Garland going to be Damian Lillard now? No. Is he going to be Damian Lillard?

Even Damian Lillard is a rookie. Probably not. He's played like a handful of games in college, let alone three years. years plus a redshirt year in college. Right. So, so, so, so it's a hard, I compare that to Draymond Green, whereas Drayvon Green played his whole career at Michigan State, played for a great coach, and they also

have the type of culture where they challenged them to understand basketball. Like I told the guys earlier today, like, my dad was a, uh, had an assistant coach in college for 19 years. And he coached me from the day I was born. And I played for two outstanding high school coaches that both played in college, one won a state championship here. One's a junior college, his best junior college coach in California.

And when I got to college and I played for John McLeod, my first co-practice I was like, I thought I knew basketball and I know nothing. And then I went to play for Eddie Sutton, and it was a completely different level because there's just things that you don't get taught that they don't teach you when you're a kid growing up. So the learning curve.

So Draymond, does he have a high basketball? Of course, he has a brilliant basketball mind. but let's not understand the fact that he had four years to matriculate in that type of system, whereas I think Zion in year one has shown signs of having a much higher basketball IQ than most people thought. He has a much better motor than people thought. And now that he's gotten himself in really good shape, and I still think there's some weight to be lost there. Look, I think there's part Larry Johnson because he can score in the low post. That's still a valuable, as we learn in the NBA, playing. playoffs, scoring mid-range and low post to give everybody a break is still important.

He can defend the rim with his athleticism. But more than anything, like Draymond, he can defend all five positions. He can really move his feet, and he's strong enough to guard some of those big boys inside. And then, look, he's not the passer that Drayman is. Yeah. But I'm not sure Drayman was that passer when he came out. And Drayman's not a particularly good shooter. Shooting's actually gotten worse, and I would think his shooting's going to get better.

Like, I don't think, I think he's part Draymond. There's a little Blake Griffin. There's a little, there's a little Larry Johnson. And the only place I compare him to LeBron is you and I were both covering the 2003 NBA draft. And Dwayne Wade was there and Carmelo was there and Bosch was there. And they were all, the first, Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony were known commodity stars. LeBron James walked in at the Hyatt where they had the press conferences. And it was different than anything anybody else had seen.

And I feel like his presence has some similarities to LeBron. I'll go with that. The personality, even the way, like he said, Rome isn't built in a day. And David Griffin, that, hey, this is, we're in the starting blocks. That is the absolute right way to approach this. And everything about Zion tells me this guy is going to come at it and understands how far he has to go. because that's what concerns me about a lot of these guys is they feel like they've already arrived.

Right. And the fact that Zion is ahead at the top of the class, and he's saying, man, I got a lot of work to do, is a very promising sign. By the way, I guarantee you your dad would not have passed on doing a show after throwing five innings of BP to you. I guarantee you that. I didn't pass.

It was one of those. I had a plan and I tried to execute the plan. plan and the plan the plan didn't work. All right. Here's what I do want to do coming up next, okay? I want to get to Kauai and the now discussion that he'll meet with the Sixers. What do we take of that? I want to get to Kyrie.

And does Brooklyn want to sacrifice what appears to be incredible chemistry for a guy that seems to ruin the chemistry of Boston? And I want to get to the Warriors because it feels like Rome fell. on the other hand they could figure out a way to run it back in a year or two much the way the Bulls ran it back don't give away your answer. Rick Bucher continues to join us upcoming next in the herd but first

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Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. Doug Gally been for Colin. This is the herd on Fox Sports Radio, the IHeart Radio app. get to heard line news in a second. And, oh, you'll like our best for last. You will like our best for last. No, we're not going to do Little League parents.

Although I did miss one Little League parent yesterday or two days ago when I had some of my friends, Howlin. Yesterday? Two days ago, two days ago, right? This was in reaction to that video in Colorado of parents at a seventh grade, a seven-year-old baseball game getting into a fight. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, our best for last upcoming in 15 minutes. Let's re-welcome in Rick Buecker from Bleacher Report and Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. He'll be guest hosting my show, which starts at the top of the hour on most Fox Sports Radio affiliates. Let's get to Kauai. So there's this new, there's plot twist. He will meet with the 76ers.

Yeah. That one seems odd. Yeah. And I actually called a Sixers source about that. this. Because it was probably a week or so ago that I heard their name floated out there. And I said, so I hear you guys are in the mix. And he said, I think that's because Uncle Dennis lives really close by. They're just adding another piece to the soup. And then it's not a matter of that it's a legitimate angle here. So I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it. As of right now,

they're looking at can we re-sign jimmy butler can we sign tobias harris it does it it makes very little sense for everything the kawai leonard wants to walk into that situation with already established stars and and exactly where where do you play him and how with the mix that they have i i don't i don't know i don't know um okay what about new york how does how does the just we could talk about kawai and kate and kari or we can just go from the New York Knicks angle and then go outward. Sure. But it starts, everything kind of starts with KD and Karee

and how much it's changed because of KD's injury. If KD weren't injured right now, the Knicks and the Nets would be fighting to get both of them. And that would be the battle line. Now it's a matter of, well, who do we get? For Brooklyn, if it's Kyrie wants to be here, we're not going to take him by himself. We saw that and how that went in Boston. So we need another quality player.

If KD were there, and even if you can sign KD and Kyrie right now, the fact of the matter is you're not going to have KD for a year. So you are going to replicate what Boston did for at least a year. And that has both the Knicks and the Nets going, Well, you're the Knicks. How do you sell season 10? on, hey, we're going to be good next year. This year, not so much.

Next year. Like, that's a... The same way you sold season tickets this year? I mean, it is... This has always been the mistake with the Knicks. Is that it's always been that. How do we sell season tickets? How do we keep Madison Square Garden full?

I understand, but when you've tanked for as long as... Okay. But here's... But you've tanked with different regimes. Like, this really is the starting... were a year into the Scott Perry, Steve Mills, David Fisdale. I trust those guys acumen. I certainly respect their pedigree.

Agreed. So my feeling is I know that everybody, you're not the first, you won't be the last. Oh, the Knicks. Look at what they've done it for years. They do these Knicks things. No, no, no. But I also understand the reality of it. And then my thing is like, look, I actually like R.J. Barrett?

He's a dominant ball handler guy. I don't know which one of these other guys he fits all that well with, to be totally honest. And I guess we all assume KD comes back and he's KD, but we don't know that. I don't think R.J. Barrett fits with Kyrie Irving. Fair. So, yeah. Well, I don't know that the Knicks would ever say this. But if they really had their druthers, first of all, they think they'll get a shot at least a sit down with Kauai.

They get at least an opportunity to pitch him. In their perfect scenario, it's Kauai, KD, and R.J. Barrett, which I think actually can work. But that said, in their perfect scenario, they're getting KD, and they're looking at KD and saying, who do you want next to you? Who do you need next to you? If it's Kyrie, okay. But if it was Kempa, if it was almost anybody else. Even now? I think KD has the best chance to come back from this injury and be as close to the same guy.

I agree. Because of he's not a purely explosive guy. He's explosive for a seven-footer, but he's not, you know. He's a jump shooting seven-footer with a high release. Who can pass, who can handle, who can do a little bit, everything, can defend. One dribble and can get to anywhere and rise up and score. Right. So it's not as much about athleticism. And he's slightly built. So you're not going to put a lot of torque on that. He's not going to put on weight like DeMarcus cousins did where everything starts breaking down when you come back.

Exactly. On the other hand, like, you're going to bet your future on a 30-year-old who's had a foot that's kept him out for a year? An Achilles tendon. I'll just say this. I understand your concern. And I understand it. I have yet to talk to a team or a GM in the league. both with a shot at him or without a shot at him,

who has said that they're worried about what KD's going to be when he gets back. Also, a big portion of it is how hard a worker you are when you rehab. And I've only heard stories about him being the most ridiculous worker. Diligent, diligent when it comes to that. Also, you have a timeline if you're in New York, you don't have to rush him back. Like that. I mean, that's where things happen to is when you try to push. the envelope and get a guy back

as soon as a cousin. Wanted to come back. Dwight Howard. Okay. What about Golden State? They're in a world of hurt. I mean, the reality is they're in a tough, tough spot. Even worst case scenario, you re-sign KD, which I just everything that I hear about how KD feels

about what went down with the injury and what he was told. And the Warriors aren't alone. There's a lot of people that were saying KD, you're not at risk. And so he's kind of looking sideways at everybody in terms of who gave him that information because he's not happy the fact he's going to miss next season and he ended up with a ruptured Achilles.

Did not think that was part of the equation. It's funny. Like the doctors I've talked to are like, I thought it was partially torn to begin with. And people who were close to KD told me there's a 1% chance that he plays in the series because it's serious. Even KD, I was there when he said it. He goes, this is the most serious one I've ever had. So I'm looking at it thinking, dude, for where you're.

you are, this is a bad bet. But when you have Kavan, Andre, Clay, when you have all these guys dinged up playing and you want to play, you're thinking, I got to strap it up because we're not going to get another shot at a 3P. Okay, so what's most likely

to happen? They resign Clay and they let KD walk, and do they add anybody? Like, what do they... How can they? I don't know. Yeah, they can't. I mean, the only way they could do it is to be a dude at Draymond, but But like, yeah, that's, I don't, I don't see that.

Here's the difficulty that they have is not only can you not add anybody. Not only do you not have any young players that you can lean on. I mean, Kavanaughn Looney, you can bring him back. Okay. He's, he's a nice role player. He's not going to carry any weight. Is that now you're putting additional stress on Steph and Dremont. If you want to be competitive.

Those guys have already been through. And they'll be worn down by the time that you come back. Like that's a season. Now, Steph may put up crazy numbers for a year. Sure. But at what price? Exactly. So there are no easy solutions here.

This whole notion that the Warriors are still going to be over competitive. Rome fell. It's no. Rome fell. And there's no. Look, somebody in the organization said to me, if KD leaves, the championships are over. Like, because of where Clay,

Dremond, and Steph are, as a result of this run, like they're beaten down physically too. And now you're not going to get any relief for Dremond or Steph. It's just, I would love to tell you there's a keyhole through which they could walk and they could still be some semblance

of what they've been. That keyhole does not exist. Rick Buecker, joining me. I'm Doug Gottlie. I'm Doug Gottliebilling for Collins. the herd on Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio app. Isn't amazing that it took all this to happen for Kevin Durant to receive the respect and admiration, which is why he wanted out to begin with, which is nutty.

I stand by Danny Aange. I thought he did a great job last night. I thought he replenished his back court last night. Not maybe served with a starting point guard. But I think letting Al Horford walk is the right thing. If somebody's going to offer Al Horford four years at over $100 million, you go, hey man, it's been great. Because I don't want Al Horford at 25 plus at 36 and 37.

Sorry, you know, that doesn't feel like a winning strategy. I agree 100% when it comes to Horford, not overpay for him at this stage. I get that. I feel as if some of what happened with Kyrie, from what I've heard, Danny the player challenged Kyrie. and I needed Danny to be the GM and not get into the mix of, hey, dude, I'll trade you to Sacramento. You know, this is not working.

And that took Kyrie around the corner and you, now maybe it wouldn't have worked this year anyway. But I feel like Danny got into the emotional mix of what was wrong with the team this year. And that assured that they were going to go in the wrong direction. Oh, and I also think like, look, who could have seen Gordon getting hurt the way he did. I thought that was a bad bet, though. I never liked that signing from the beginning.

Because of the relationship. Because he couldn't, one, he couldn't live up to the contract. And you had a lot of other guys in that room who had already accomplished something that weren't going to get paid the same way and that I thought we're going to look across the way and say, wait a minute, I'm better than he is. And he's making how much?

That for young players, that creates a chemistry. No, no question. And I also think they may be undervalued or underappreciated the fact that he played for Brad in college. It's almost like playing for your dad, right? Yes. And they're like, wait, he's only playing you because you're his boy. And Brad. We've got to take a second look at the jobs he's done.

Well, I don't necessarily think it's just Brad. It's also like, Brad is very businesslike. Brad is very straightforward. and his staff is much that way. And there's a, you know, some of these guys, it's a different vibe. And, you know, you got to work together on this thing. And it did feel like players and coaches from what I've been told. Last thing.

All right. So they bought a draft pick, which became Taylor Horton Tucker, who's one of the oddest builds of all time. He's like 6'4 with a 7-1 wingspan, like 20% body fat. And he's like 8. I think he's the youngest player in the draft. They've signed some, you know, Jordan Caroline, who I love as an undrafted free agent. Who do the Lakers get?

You mean, in terms of free agents? Well, that's where you kick the tires on some of the veteran guys, the Trevor Areza's, the Damari Carols. Darren Collison. Marcus Morris. Yes, but they have to go out. There has to be another big get, right? Like, Kemba? No, I don't, I don't, I would not go.

JJ? Will JJ? No, Jay J.J's, people keep singing this song. Jay J.J. lives in Brooklyn. He has, you know this as much as anybody. He's got kids. He's got his life dialed. Yes. And the 76ers love him because he brings a veteran presence.

He's a pro. And yet a coolness where he's able to deal with Ben and Joelle. His value is just incredible with that franchise. So they appreciate him, and he appreciates the fact that they let him commute from freaking Brooklyn, which is insane. Why is this insane? It's because you like... Do you know where I drive from to come to work? No, no, no, no.

Okay. That said, for the role that JJ has, and you're going to say all these like team things that you have to deal with, we're going to make all kinds of allowances for you, you can live in Brooklyn. He's a paid assassin. That's what he is. He's a license to kill. The fact of the matter is... Show up, make jump shots. They can make...

Fox can make exceptions for you. They'll make exceptions for me. Okay. Well, you can make exceptions. But here's my point. When you start to make exceptions like that for a JJ Reddick, oh my good. What do you think, Joelle Embed and Ben Simmons?

I mean, look, I'm going to be... I'm going to live in Kauai, and then I'll just fly in for the games. You just open up the opportunity for guys to ask for all kinds of things. They were willing to do that for J.J. ready. Okay, so who do they get? Who do the Lakers get?

They're just going to get a bunch of vets? No, no, no, it's not just a bunch of vets. Pall Corvert, J.R. Smith. J.R. Smith's going to be a Laker, isn't he? They're going to buy them out? No, no, no. What are you? Amon Schumperts? No, but I mean, J.R. can shoot. J.R., he's a clutch guy, isn't he? It's like a $3 million buyout from the cabs? Maybe he is. I don't think he will be, but that's not an answer. I know, I look at I didn't say it was the answer either. I'm trying to figure out, like, they got like seven or eight

roster spots there, man. How are they going to fill that up? But here's my whole thing. You take the 27 million and you try to find some quality players. Like I'm looking for two players to fit into that space. I'm not looking to spend it all on one guy. I'm looking to get an Al-Farucamino. And I don't know where he is with Portland, but he made $6.9 million last year. He's a really good, can affect the game without the ball, can knock down a three, can defend, you can play him at the four, LeBron at the five. He makes a lot of sense. He's still got a lot of athleticism.

He's a solid pro. He's got plenty of experience. I'm looking for a couple of Al-Farukaminu's to add to the equation rather than I go get a Kemba Walker. Because I just don't know that I'm going to need some flexibility and some versatility, especially because we're just going on the assumption that LeBron James will not suffer another injury of any significance, which at his age is not a guarantee.

And Anthony Davis's history. Or that LeBron will be the same guy, right? Yes. No, no, 100%. Forget about if he's healthy. He didn't move last year like he used to. And here's the other thing. So, like I like a Trevor or Riza. I like adding him to the equation.

But he's 33-34. You've got to figure out a way to keep him healthy through the season and use him in the playoffs. So it's, and again, I've talked to plenty of GMs. They're all on board. Lakers are going to be the Western Conference champs. Like everybody's just immediately going there. I'm thinking there's a lot more.

Did we just not watch teams lose significant players along the way in a variety of ways? And that determined their fate? I got 30 seconds. I've gone totally over. You've got to go prep for my show. Houston Rockets. Do they keep it together or do they blow it up? They have no choice.

Can't find anybody. If you blow it up, you're not going to blow it up before the season starts. You're going to see, can we put it back together? You could trade Capella. That's not a crazy contract. It's not a good contract, but it's not a crazy contract. I don't know what you're going to get back for it, though. I understand, but it feels like that.

And then what happens to your rim protection? Capella did get exposed in the playoffs, though. Yes, he did. Rick Buecker, when he exposed himself, it's not in the playoffs. You'll hear him on the Doug Gottliebts show, which is an award-winning show following this one on Fox Sports World Trade. Great stuff. All right.

With that, let's get to Ryan Music with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Music, what do you got, my friend? As you pour through your notes? All right. Doug, let's hit a couple of things real quick. Odell Beckham Jr. new team.

Same Odell, though, Doug. He was talking to Complex Magazine. He said this. I just felt with the Giants. I was just stuck at a place that wasn't working for me anymore. I felt like I wasn't going to be able to reach my full potential there. Mentally, physically, spiritually, everything I felt capable of doing. I just couldn't see it happening there.

In New York? With the Giants. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. You know what that is? Do you want to dance? No. No, no, no.

I said you look fat in those pants. That's what that is. she didn't dump me I dumped her like you can't fire me if I quit yes you can't fire me if I quit take this job and shove it like dude we we already fired you

that's what that is yeah so Cleveland Brown's good luck hopefully he can reach his whole potential mentally physically spiritually and everything that he is capable of doing in Cleveland we'll stick in New York though Doug

Aaron Judge finally returning he suffered an oblique injury in April but he is set to play tomorrow. How about the fact that the Yankees have hit home runs in like 20-something consecutive games and they've been doing it without John Carlos Stanton without Aaron Judge? I almost feel like the Yankees for years would come up short in the playoffs recently because they hit too many home runs and they were ahead of the curb. Now that's all anybody does and they are amazing.

Like their lineup is so ridiculous in terms of their prodigious power. Now, go ahead. I misspoke when I said tomorrow. It's actually today. He returns against the Astros today. And, of course, they've won, I think six in a row. I'm going to go with six in a row. So, yeah, the Yankees, and they'll put on a show.

If you look at their batting, their team batting, it's pretty damn impressive in terms of their home runs. And, of course, home runs are up throughout the league. This is a Yankee team that I point out hasn't had Stanton. hasn't had Judge and is still sixth overall in home runs. Sixth. And that's Rhyme's with the news. Well, that's the news.

And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. I still love the NBA draft. I had a lot of fun watching, but there's one thing that has to be fixed. We'll discuss it next on The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottlie be in for Colin.

this is the hurt. Among the things that need to be fixed in sports. Like, I'm convinced that we've completely butchered all of these overtime rules, right? Like, I'm not, I understand that college football's overtime is exciting, but the idea that we go from a 100-yard field to a 25-yard field, like, that's not football.

What happened to the other 75 yards? well you know we just we're trying to decide who's the better team not completely change the sport think about it if college football rules were implemented into basketball right because after two overtimes you have to go for two right in the third overtime

and that essentially be like all right in overtime we're only going to play half court and we go to double overtime or triple overtime you can only take three pointers That's what college overtime is. So among the things that need to be changed in sport, I do think college, even pro overtime. I mean, think about how the Super Bowl is won,

where you both teams get the ball in overtime unless you score a touchdown. But if you score a field goal, the other team gets it. What, why? So you have to score to win, but you have to score in a certain way? That doesn't make any sense to me. If both teams are going to get the ball,

both teams are going to the ball. If we're going to put time in the clock, put time in the clock. We're going to do sudden death. we try and please everybody and we essentially please nobody. But in basketball, the NBA draft needs to be changed. Not anything about the lottery or the, which I don't understand why we don't just have the ping pong balls. Like every state lottery in the country, they have a show with ping pong balls. Why don't we have that for the NBA draft lottery?

And during the NBA draft, can we please figure out a way in which we can get the hats right? I don't worry about that hat. He's going to be wearing a different hat in five minutes. Yes, but there's only one time. One time in your life, there are 60 kids on the face of this earth that get to walk up on stage, get a baseball hat with their team's logo, and hug Adam Silver, and be a member of the NBA. They only invited 20-some-odd guys anyway. Those 20, they should at least get their hat right. Jay Billis joined me earlier today.

He had this to say about that. awkwardness of that exchange. NFL draft, you know, when they draft somebody while things were changing, they were changing. Yeah. I mean, listen, we had Aaron, Aaron Torres came on, and he's like, man, I really liked 76 years, and they got Carson Edwards, and I was like,

hey, I don't know how to tell you this, but Carson Edwards is a Boston Celtic. Really? Yeah. It's super, I've done the draft. It's super confusing. You know, you're like, wait, he was actually drafted for him. You know, so I guess, Yes, here's the easy fix, right?

The easy fix, the very simple fix, is just like in, you know, when you're at in Vegas, all bets are in. All trades are in. If you're going to have the five minute clock in the first round, after four minutes, like, that's who it is. We break out the hat and that player cannot be traded because as of today, there's a moratorium. once you've been drafted, you can't be traded until July 31st. So those guys are actually traded before the draft pick goes down. So I look at it, and I think that's the easiest fix possible, is that you put a moratorium at a certain point in time.

Once you hit a certain point of the clock, a trade cannot be made, so everybody knows what's taking place and why it's taking place. But think about it. Like, you're going to go back the rest of your life and go back. there's a photo of you shaking the hands of the commissioner. This was the moment. This is the moment someone I was drafted in the NBA. Like, wait, you were drafted by the Lakers?

No. Actually, I was drafted by the Pelicans, but then I was traded to the Hawks. But it was originally the Lakers pick. So I had a Lakers hat on. Like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yep. Pretty much. Pretty much.

And it came to a head last, when you confuse brilliant people like Jay Billis. Right, like Jay Bill's law degree from Duke, practicing lawyer, long time. When you confuse smart people, that becomes a you problem, your setup problem. All right, Uncle Colin is back on Monday. He'll be tanned. He'll be tone. He'll be ready to tell you what he got right and what he got wrong. The era of Zion has begun.

I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the herd. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. In every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. and we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker... They know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year. on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was crying. You just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to him. He's like, you know, I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.