The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Lovable Reunion - Joe Maddon on Rizzo's hangover, Cubs CRAZY pizza party & NEW 2016 World Series stories w/ David Ross

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

David Ross and Anthony Rizzo are joined by former Chicago Cubs manager Joe Maddon on The Lovable Reunion podcast to reminisce about their 2016 World Series title over the Cleveland Indians. They discuss Maddon’s journey to joining the Cubs, get his perspective on how to be a successful baseball manager, and share stories from their magical MLB postseason run together. All lines provided by Hard Rock BetSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas.

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You only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard's, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

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And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Here we are at the Lovable Reunion podcast, interviewing our coach, Joe Madden. I'm a coach, Anthony's. And I call him Anthony's plural.

Two-time World Series champion. One is a manager, then the three World Series. Second most winning percentage of Cubs history behind Frank Chance, who Rossi played for. He's got always thrown out of the bus. That never gets sold up.

And I say, Joe, when you surprised everyone in 2015 with signing with us, it was the first block of building a championship team. And you literally, under your leadership, turned the lovable loser franchise into expected World Series contenders. So thank you before we get started. Let's give it up for Joe Mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There were no players there. Are you kidding me? Thank you, Anthony.

And that was, I remember that so well, you know, just getting there in the first place. I really didn't have any Cub tradition built into me. I was an American leaguer. You know, I came from the raise, and Jed and Theo showed up down in your neck of the woods down here, Tallahassee in Navarre Beach. Okay. And I was in my RV at Navar Beach, and they come down there and they sit down. We sit down in the back of my, behind my RV on this little, little beach back there,

and just start talking philosophically, right? And when you had some history with them, with interviewing in Boston, right? That was many years before that was 2004 when Tito got the job. And I really wasn't ready for that job at that time. I even told them afterwards, you guys had made the right choice. It was a much better choice for me than me at that particular juncture. But I was the best choice at that particular juncture, I thought. My time with the raise really helped me with the planning component of that.

I knew what I wanted. You know, you arrive at a point in your life where you know what you know. And that sounds dumb, but some people really don't know what they know. They're regurgitators. They're always repeating things that they've heard from somebody else. But by the time I get to the Coveys, and even with the race, I really felt I knew what it would take to put us into that position. And of course, you have to have great players. Don't be deceived.

I mean, managers are good because the players are good. And if you have a really good pitching staff, you're even better. And if you have a real closer, you can be the best manager there is. All that stuff is part of the gig. But you guys were fabulous. It was so interesting because the race are great. I love Tampa Bay and we're here right now. But the tradition of the Cubs walking in the Wrigley Field every day,

I would walk in and look up and I'd say thank you. Because I never experienced that. Anaheim was great for a while, you know, but I was not a manager. And the Rays played at the TROP, which is cool. But Riggly Field, I think, for me, is the best professional venue in all of sports. I'll go to Europe, all these soccer stadiums, whatever, and I put in Wrigley up against all of them. Because on a daily basis, those people that ballpark, you could play, and I'll shut up in a second, but remember we played the Indians on a Monday

and a make-up game, I think it was 2016, make-up Monday at 1 o'clock in the afternoon. I think it was Lester versus Cluber. Cluber. 40,000 people. It doesn't happen. So anyway, long answer, but there's so much adrenaline and excitement in that ballpark every frigging day. And then we have a combination. Now, these guys are great players, but think of the charisma of our group. And it started in 15, but it really built into 16. But charitimately, you guys are so cool to be with on a daily basis. And I was with a bunch of men.

I wasn't with a bunch of kids. And that really was exciting to me too. So there's a lot of contributing factors to that. I was just fortunate and happy to be there because I felt really good. about that group. Well, we mimicked the cool manager you are. So outside the box and the shaving the head and spring training, the shots of the press conference. I remember that press conference. They do? Really? Well, Rossi and I had, we were doing an ESPN car wash for the playoffs and 14 going into 15. I remember talking to our agents. We had the same agents. And I was like, Rossi's what we

need as a young team. And then you came over and it was like, oh my God. And then we signed Lester and Rossi. At your press conference, it was, you know, I think you said something along the lines of unless you can't be here unless we align perfectly with the front office. Right. And for a number of years, you aligned perfectly with the front office. And obviously later on the years, you know, things changed a little bit. We're going to stop hitting in the office. No, that was, that was taxes and me hitting and those years were very consistent. I got to get a job at you every once in a while. But there's just, I respected you so much from afar. as a young player i was 21 when i got called up i was in the big leagues for four years before you

signed and i remember with the raise you did i think it was like a uh uh would stock trip out we did that we did that we did that we did that was to seattle all the things you did and i'm like this is what we need because i'm like as a rookie like you're supposed to get to the field at 12 o'clock for seven o'clock i'm like why are we getting here so early it's nuts and everything you did from afar i aligned with so when we signed you i was literally like a kid I'm still like a kid every time around you. I appreciate it. What did you try to implement coming in to Chicago?

Like what was, you get a new job, you're trying to learn everything, and what did you feel like when you first got there? I really want to change this or you're really good about being yourself, but what kind of a new environment, that's not easy? I learned something in 1985 for something like that with Gene Mock. That goes back a bit. I was running the Instructional League in Arizona. I was the field coordinator and a manager.

I wasn't managing, but I was leading that instructionally group. Gene comes in a ton. I'm out in a cage. I'm just throwing my BP, but I'm running the whole thing. And Gene walks up to me and he says, in between, he gave me one of these, come over and speak with him. You've created a great environment around here. And he had his, like, polyester's on. His hair is perfect, smoking a cigarette.

He has loved to play golf, Ridge, smoke a little bourbon. Then he just takes off like a poop, you know. He just disappears. And I thought to myself, what the hell is he talking about? I had no idea what he's talking about. And I think when you do things organically, you don't know what you're doing sometimes, which is a good thing. It's like the zone of being a coach or a manager.

But I went home that night, and I thought, what that was he talking about? So I sat around and I actually took, I wrote notes by my, at that time as a big note taker. We built relationships and conversations and not just talking to somebody, really listening to somebody. There's a difference. We were talking about that before we started doing this. to really listen to somebody people will have a conversation kind of but did we really listen to one another and a lot of times the answer is no but that's that was my first takeaway and then what happened because of that we trusted each other i mean and i know everybody wants more ground balls

choreographed early work um all kinds of data information booklets on the bench everybody wants that's the you don't start there you start by relationship building listening to people then you build trust and then you can exchange ideas in other words like David and I have different perspective or thoughts on something so you give me yours I give you mine and because we've built trust and we have a relationship it's not going to be like oh I'm not going to listen to Joe I'm just going to he's not listening to me right now it's my way or I'm not I'm not going to support him whatsoever so you get this this pushback so but you if you establish those first two things then we can't exchange ideas and I can disagree with

you and we could listen because that leaps to constructive criticism think about it think about it i mean my best coaches the guys are really loved the guys that told me when i was wrong yeah yeah well you said honesty without compassion equals cruelty that's right that's yeah i took that with me as soon as i heard you say that you you said it early when you first out with us it's one of my faves it was game changing for me as as a leader especially as a young reader at the time was i can't tell anyone what to do they don't trust me as a as a person first they need to know I have their best interest. Correct.

Because you go and tell someone, if any coach, you have coaches all the time, you come and like, hey, you should do this. And I'm like, hold on, I don't even know you. My name's Anthony. Nice to meet you. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

Perfect. That's right on. And you instill that and you come over and you create the greatest culture of a generation, really. You were such a pioneer. We were the first team to have music at spring training. Every team, all 30 teams now have music everywhere. Right, right. All the skits, right.

You were a pioneer with. analytics that was taboo back in the day. And then you transitioned and became more of the see and feel and analytical guy. So it's like- It's a combination of everything, but the journey of Joe in your what, 50 years, 60 years or 60 years? No, I started as a coach in 1981 as a player in 76. But I appreciate that because that's exactly how I feel about it. It's a morphing of things.

It's not just data and analytics. also feel and experience and intuition. I think, you know, you guys know Todd Green, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Green, do you know Todd Green? Green is one of my players with the Angels, he's a scout now. I wonder for that. We were to both catchers in AAA or the daughters also. Beautiful man, beautiful man. That's how I went to the hockey mask. Okay, he kept getting his bill run with that. I said, stop doing that. Anyway, so Greenie brought to my attention. It's not old school. It's not new school. It's being in school. You know, I think we, you know, It is a great line because I don't want to argue with you about what I learned from Bob Clear in 1979 as a coach

or what I learned from Andrew Friedman in 2006 or seven as a young manager with the Tampa Bay race or the devil race at that time. That's not the point because all of that is important to me. When you fit extremism in any shape or form in our politics in today's world, it's awful. I'm not into extremes. I think there's a balance to be sought and felt with everything. So I was at the forefront of the data analytics in the early 2000s. It was all my own stuff. Nobody told me how to do this.

But I got Bob Clear. I got Gene Mock. I got Whitey Herzog. I got Cookie Rollhoss. I got Marcel Lachman. I could go on now. Sam. I got Don Zimmer.

I got all these dudes. Come on. I got their stuff. And then I got the newer stuff that started about 2005, six, seven with the devil raise. and why would I not want to use both sides of this thing? Why would you want to rely heavily on one or the other? Why can't you understand it's so how important it is to morph these things together to really come to being in school?

Graney was brilliant when he told that to me. So that's where we lie today. It's too heavy-handed, I believe, one side being the more analytical data-driven controlling side, as opposed to the empowerment side, which is the intuition, the feel, the experience side. For me, if you really want to win championships on a regular basis, learn how to bring them both together. Because I want, if I ever got to do this again, I want the best analytical staff money can buy. Totally.

Information. Absolutely. But then I want the best tobacco, spitting, honest, telling. Experienced. Guys that piss you off when they tell you the truth, guys. You told me that when I called you when I got the managerial job and we talked for like an hour. And you told me, don't take for granted and forget. at your experience because that's going to guide you and that's really going to like try you know

everybody says you know we don't want to listen to our gut but your gut is your experience talking to you and the things that you've been through in the dugout as a player like don't forget those as a manager because they care they carry a ton of weight and a ton of value i'm going to make a recommendation right now i've read a book recently i'm reading it right now it's called you already know the the ladies of professor from northeastern university laura long i uh i found somebody sent me like a little excerpt of her work so i got in touch with her i called her on the phone. Brilliant. This lady's a young lady. She teaches at Northeastern, and the whole book is about experience, intuition, gut feeling. Wow. Yeah. But she really, it's academia, but she explains it in

such a wonderful way. It's that it's very identifiable. And that's the part of the world today that I think we're getting away from. I think AI is going to take even further away from that. You're going to rely more. Why do we want machines to tell us how to live and what to be and how to do things. Why? Even in a sport, why do you want to rely on a machine data information, math, whatever you want to call? Why is it so important to do that? And why do you think, I would say, give me the best coaching staff that I could put together. And I'll battle your AI all day long. And I mean, there's no staff that you brought in for us. Exactly. Exactly. There's no, there's no definitive reason why you think just because this data and information, this AI stuff,

I'm here to tell you if I get like the right group of coaches together and I still want to utilize that I still want my information and you can utilize go ahead and buy some good coaches yourself but just give me that opportunity we're going to we're going to bust your balls right down to the very end under those circumstances and that's what's missing and it's the human element god dang it's the human we're just talking about the culture and everything else we had you're not going to get that from a from a computer no well I think that's what we I wanted to get into because we feel like our coaches on that 2016 team were game changers.

Like, can you walk through just like the guys bussy, Borsi, Hider, Jonesy, Boz, Davey Martinez? Yeah, I mean, like, Maley, and ski. And ski, yeah. Just guys that were in the trenches every day. And it's like, you were so good, Joe, at distracting the media, distracting the players from the media

that I think guys don't need to understand to where the manager has to do so many obligations. And then Davey would just come in and let, I had a phrase, prisoners run the asylum. Right. They let, you guys let us run the asylum. Of course. With structure.

Every, so often the wardens had to step in and get us in line. But if there was fires that we put out, either come and talk to you or the easiest manager I've ever was able to talk to. Or David were coming to, hey, this is why we're doing this or no, we're not doing that. And like, that was it. You love the Uncle Sam posted, right? Oh, yeah. That's one of the paintings we did.

And you know what the main theme of that is? the more freedom given the greater respect and discipline return. Totally. If you're as a professional, I'm not going to do that with fifth graders. Okay, I'm not going to let a bunch of fifth graders run the asylum. But if you're a professional, you know, 20 plus year old, old enough to drink, old enough to vote, old enough to die in a war, right? And I'm going to tell you everything, how to act on a daily basis.

No, the more freedom I give you, the greater respect I'm going to get coming back towards me. And more freedom I give you, the more you're going to actually live. Listen to me. Totally. We have three rules. At least weigh, at least weigh what I have to say. Sure. Right?

Because I never, I could almost use the word never. Created like an edict. You got to do this. We got to do that. The closest I came to that, you don't remember this in 2015. We did cut off some relays. Yeah. Yeah.

I hated it. I remember. I remember Starlin Castro. I remember all the dudes. I remember a hobby, just going through the motions. We started doing relay catch. That's right. You realize we didn't screw up a freaking relay on it. Relay cache. That's right.

Exactly. We can't take it too serious. We can't take it too serious. We know how to do the fundamental. Exactly. You had three rules. In 2015. Do simple better.

That's right. Respect 90. Right. And our dress code, if you think you will call, wear it. That's right. You said in those speech in spring trains, like, whoever made some putting a collar on a shirt, all of a sudden, why is that's not the right one is to live?

Right. And that alone to a young group, that's still learned how to win in 15 was like, this is amazing. You got pissed off and we didn't play hard. Right. You got seldom to guys know you got pissed off, but as we got to know you a little bit,

you could tell. Yeah. And if there was mental errors. Hate mental errors. And that's what we knew. So it's like, don't fuck up. Don't be that person. And we can literally do whatever you wanted to.

And it was the spring training, you said. The band of brothers. It was a band of brothers. And you gave us that freedom. And I think that's how a team needs to, be led by the players right absolutely you would say in your speech in spring training you would say you guys all know wrong from right choose right that's correct choose right it's not it's not hard i've been using that since like 19 whatever when i managed um the idaho falls angels and the salem

angels in 1981 82 and e3 that would be part of what i talked to these guys about you know what's right and wrong i don't have to stand up here and tell you what's right and wrong you grew up in a family you have a father you have a mother you had teachers you had coaches you know what's right and wrong I'm like to write it down on a piece of paper choose right yeah just choose right every time we're not we're not going to have any that's right we're not going to have any issues because i'm not going to stand here and just lord over you and be your father i'm not your dad right i'm your manager and i'm here to make sure this runs properly and i'm for me it's about on the field i want it i want it a uniformity i want a consistency that's that's where i want it

to um this this could i don't want to use a word conformity but again you is probably the right way to put it off the field. I wanted to address how you want it, where your hair, how you want it. I don't care how many earrings you were. I didn't care about any of that. This doesn't matter. But when you got on the field,

at that point, if I gave you enough freedom to be yourself, you're going to give me that respect back to play the game properly. That's what I was thought. I remember you getting flack out. We picked a guy off first in the Washington, D.C. game. The last lot of the game.

It was soda. No, it was the first thing. So, though. Anyways, we pick him off and you were like, the media was like, did you call that play? You let them do that. You were like, of course we let them do it. Like they see an opportunity, take advantage of it. And I think that freedom, like you said, you handled all the media stuff.

I never felt like there was this curse, this thing hanging over. Because we were our only new unit within inside the clubhouse. The motley crew. The motley crew. And you let us kind of have that freedom within that structure. And I thought that's what brought out the best in and all. all of us, myself included. Was that the last out of the game?

Last out of the game, Ron, yeah, pick him off. And we had that back, they were like, what if he doesn't right field? It was like, well, what if he doesn't? You know, I remember you- What if you could fly? What if you fail? Well, what if you could fly?

The point was, if it's a right baseball plate to do, then do it. Totally. And if it doesn't work out, well, I'm okay with that. But it was the right thing to do in the moment. That show throughout our retirement time. And when you have to worry about making a mistake, then you'll never do the right thing.

Yeah, that's right. That was a big thing with hobby. Right. Right. You literally, I don't think Javi knows this, I'm sure he does, but how you handled hobby and just let Hobby be hobby, he turned into the magician. He turned into the wild man on the basis,

and he played into that, and that's why I believe he blossomed, because you see guys all the time with that type of town. Well, maybe not his talent, right? Come up and just don't have the right mentors. He's a baseball genius. He is. He just sees things other people don't see,

and then he's able to react upon what he's seeing also. See, if you see something, and there's any, I mean, any kind of hesitation, then that moment's gone. So that's purely reacted to a moment, and he's able to do that. But he has to be able to, he has to know that if he does it and it doesn't turn out well, he's not going to the principal's office office office. That's right. I mean, if he knows he's going to go to the principal's office every time, he ain't going to try this stuff.

How about the place between third and home, the running place where you say, I don't, I mean, stuff with him. The Pittsburgh one. The Pittsburgh was like, what just happened? Did you talk to him? Did you remember conversations talking to him or no? Oh, yeah. Well, most of the times when I did talk, when he was getting out of control at the plate,

that's when I would talk to him. I say, hobby, right center counts. You know, that side of the field matters counts also. So I think primarily I'd be that. My conversations would be more when I thought he was getting a little out of control offensively. But on defense, what am I going to tell him?

Yeah, yeah. What am I going to tell him? There's nothing I could help him with. I mean, that's another thing to know, as a coach, as a manager, even as a hitting coach, young Jim Edmonds, I'm up in Vancouver with him. I'm the Roving Minor League Hitting Instructor. And James is just like tearing it up like he could, right?

And I'm just going, and I stand out the side. I just watch him, and I'm watching him, just tearing it up. So I'm there for a couple days, and he's like, you know, my company, you're not talking to me. It's because I can't help you. I can only serve to confuse you right now. So please, permit me to just watch. I'm taking my notes.

When I come back in a ton of things aren't right, I'll say something to you. But for right now, I cannot help it. It can only hurt you. I feel exactly that. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news.

What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts.

We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about, what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band

before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group.

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to? The idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You know me? I need something to.

to make me seem funny. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlights. from viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down,

give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience

in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. I want to sidetrack because this is, like, so important to us a little bit that has to do with culture, but knowing your players and having all the background you did, the five levels of a big league.

Yeah. Like that is, the compassion. The compassion you had for your players knowing kind of where they were at in their journey was unmatched. And I think that's different when you're actually a player in the middle of it. And then as a veteran, I look back, I was like, that's exactly right. Like, can you list those real quick? Yeah, well, I tell you exactly how it happened. 95, 6.

six. I was the first base coach, yeah, with the Angels. And Marcel Lashman, wonderful, wonderful, might have been 95, but anyway, 95s. Latch, if things didn't work out well, always took the hit. He always thought it was his fault. And of course it wasn't. Marcell is one of the best, if not the best pitching coach you ever been around. So we lose a tough game in Annaham Stadium. And I always, I would sit with him until he left because he would just beat himself up. So we're sitting there and I'm just, observing I don't know I don't know I'm not I've never played in the big leagues I don't know so I'm sitting there that night and I'm taking it all in I go back to my uncle Rick's house I'm living with Uncle Rick up in Long Beach and I get there and

all of a sudden I had this epiphany and I again piece of paper by my bed wrote it down what am I saying here what am I saying so I don't know why I went five levels level one happy to be here as I because I was I was called up I was right Jack I was right you and I was right there as I was only called up a year year before it must have been 95. Happy to be here is level one, right? And we all, like you said, I lost a brand new leather bomber jacket at the Hertz counter

on my trip from Vancouver to Anon for my first trip to the big leagues because I was so excited, just happy to be there. And then once you get there, I got to the big leagues with the Dodgers and didn't play and like about the seventh day and I'm like, Simbaig AAA, I was stoked to be. Alex Kor actually told me, I said,

he goes, how you doing, Ross? I was like, just happy to be here. He's like, never say that. Never say it. I want to go back and play. Exactly. So then once you arrive that, you realize all that, then you get to the next point, man, I really like this.

I want to stay here. This is really good. Survival. And survival is very dangerous because when you're happy to be here, you could help the team. You're out there playing, you're freewheeling it, you have your blinders on, you don't even see the third deck yet, the lights, whatever, you don't read the papers, you don't care. So you're able to be productive and helpful. But the moment the blinders come off, you start to see everything, and man, I'm, you're

man, I really dig on this stuff. I want to stare. Then you become very cautious and you don't want to make mistakes. You don't want anybody yelling at you or whatever, not playing you because of that. So it more from happy to be here to like, damn, stage two survival. I like this. I want to stay here. Dangerous spot and guys in that level really, of course they can help you win,

but their motivation isn't right. Their motivation is to not to not. To not. Yeah, almost selfish a little bit. Exactly. And then here comes level three. And this is what you want to get to. And I remember, you know, for me specifically, even as a coach, I've been longer I can do this.

You know, that's a really strong epiphany that moment. When you look around at your peers and you feel like you're as good as everybody else here, everybody else out here and you can do this on a daily basis, I can contribute. I know what to say in a meeting. I know how to break this down because it's the same game, but it's completely different. Minor League's the big reason. We all know that. So that's it.

Level three, I'd be longer I can do this. Wow. That's when you actually exhale, I think, for the first time. Level four, I want to make as much money as I cost you can. Bob in there. Right, exactly, but it's true. Because it's a limit, you don't do it for 40 years. It's not like you're a doctor or lawyer, whatever, you can do this for many.

You have a definite finite time limit regarding doing that. And that's a whole other pressure for it. Absolutely. Like I wouldn't have a good year because, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm four years, yeah. There's a lot going on there, man. So you get to level four. I want to make as much though as I can.

And here comes level five. After you've made some money. all they want to do is win. And it's true. I mean, you go to the ballpark and there's no weather agenda. You don't even think about anything else, but winning. That's it. I mean, the blinders are on.

You see this. Your focus is outstanding. You're not worried about all kinds of bullshit or crap. You don't worry about it. You're just worried about doing my job and then maybe helping somebody else around me. And tonight's objective is to win and how do we do that? We had a lot of those guys, a veteran guy. Absolutely.

Yeah. Oh, my God. It was outstanding. Make some money. I think what was great, too, was because the mix of veteran and young players, that it was so easy to be level one through three, but also be level five.

Because there was no one there that wasn't expecting to win every night. And that was the way your style of managing. You played to pretty much win every single. Very rarely we laid it down. No. Right? That's right. Very rarely we punt it. And when we did punt, it was okay.

Yeah, it was okay. Like when we went through a skid, like I remember Hinsky saying all the time, I'll tell you one guy who does not panic. And he would point at you all the time. Your manager does not, I mean, I'm sure you had your own emotions, but there's teams you're on. And, like, you see all the structure starting to crumble a little bit, that coaching staff starting to be like, point fingers a little bit.

And that never was a thing. I was so grateful it took me so long to become a major league manager, you know, because I observed everything. And I regret that I don't have the experience that our managers have. Yeah, I mean, that's the honest, to God, truth. I mean, I saw from so many different angles, being a, minor league roving instructor was very helpful too just going from town to town every every five six days you go to a different city see a different manager yours see a different manager theirs on the other side and i was always observing what was going on with these managers and how they handle situations

so that's part of it also so by the time i get to the major leagues i knew like i said i know what i know i knew i knew i could give you i would give you examples if you pointed out different situation i'd give you an example i would call recall situations where That's where I learned this from. And that's why I was able to process it the way I did. That's the experience component of it that we're just talking about it, the control versus experience, the empowerment versus control. I mean, I learned all of that stuff.

So when we got the different situations, I swear to you, I don't even know, this is not like a bragging kind of a comment. I don't know while I was with you guys. If anything popped that I really had not been through before. When you put Travis Wood in left video, I think we all were like going, what the hell is he doing? And then what he knows? It's a whole run.

Makes it catch against the wall. Well, you remember that. That was the night the lefty pitch, Mattis. Yeah. Mattis? Yeah. Oh, that's the, we've already discussed that game. Remember, Theo came in and they all pissed off the whole coaching staff.

Lester told that story. Yeah. It was, it was, it was, it was hairy. I remember, we spoke about it, but I remember Theo being in town. He still talks about that. Yeah. No, Theo was very accountable. Fair accountable.

Fair accountable. He came in. He was waiting on everybody. My bad. And then the squeeze vine. The squeeze vine. with Lester to end it. Pinship squeeze,

but that was sick. Fearless. Well, the thing was, I give Theo a lot of credit because Dio went on the walk during the game. You were so upset with itself because the way it was they scored six runs in the first.

And the first two and three? Three and exactly. We need that. Two, two. No, that's the kind of stuff that bonds. That brings things together, no doubt about it.

So you take chances. When you're going to lose or if you're losing, the sky's the limit. You just throw everything out there. You could be way more liberal under those moments. You're way more conservative when it's tighter.

You just are. It's the way the game's played. So when you're losing or in the process of losing, you do anything you can to possibly win. And that was the woody thing. And then we did it with Stropie and left field in Cincinnati one time or two. That's what we, Joe West and the Empire is really getting upset with me

because I was like testing the rules a little bit. Yeah, the five-man infields all the time. Me playing. That was you letting me go all the way up. He talked about that. I have to switch gloves. But we, he and I. talked about that that was like really good that was your idea originally that was his idea

well it permitted us to do the back picks with hobby and all kind of stuff that's like in the nLDS right so when you when you prep against the cubs like there's so much to talk about no doubt so much to talk about i want to i want to i want to we i feel like we talk culture all day one more thing i want to hit on how did you you said you've learned this how did you get the celebration after wins that was a big part another pioneer that was a big part of us trying to move that i want to get into fish shots after through we sweep, sometimes shots before the game. Whatever it took, man.

Ray's eight. I'm trying to think like the first time, the celebration, I was at the race, and I can't remember the genesis of it, but I do remember the genesis of the disco ball. I told Westie, he was the club box. I said, Westie, we need some disco balls in here. So, like, the game would be over. We'd walk and we'd win, and all of a sudden you'd be like a nightclub.

It was like the warm-up lounge and hazel. And that's what I wanted to look like. We walk in there and like all this stuff's going on. We had Chris Rock one night at the head of the line. We won, we won. He's yelling as we walk in the locker with the disco balls going. So that was the first thing. And then it just morphed from there.

It morphed into a St. Polygirl sign. It morphed into instruments. Lonnie brought in like a saxophone that he was horrible at playing, but it was great. And it just kept evolving. James Lonnie? Yeah. And then we turned ours into. Yeah.

Then we took it to another well. We had an actual celebration. Yeah. We had like, but it never got to stay. It never got. it doesn't get old celebrating a achievement never gets old that's right winning is that's and the best part about that is lose for 30 minutes right because there's so many games and it was like after 30

minutes even if it was a tough off all right that's it on to the next one that was that was that was the problem when i had with the angels when i um in the late in the middle to late 90s um you remember we lost a huge lead to the mariners in 96 we were up by 13 or 14 games i was like i was on august like august six or You want. I went in the most five or six. You're born on August 8th or 9th. What is it? 8th.

Okay. Okay. How about I knew that? That's great. That's crazy. So we have like a 13 or 14 game lead in the beginning of August and we lose it. We have a one game playoff with the Mariners at the end of the season. We lost Ranny Johnson versus Langston in the kingdom.

I was the first base coach. Anyway, that team and teams after that I felt would take a loss and turning into tomorrow's loss also. This by the way they reacted. I'm watching guys come in the next day. They're sullen. They can't even talk to each other. Dave Hollins. I love Dave Hollins.

David would be like, you'd remember, Dad? Head did not like to lose, brother. But I would like, I would like, oh, he's funny, man. God, did he make me laugh. But you come in the next day, and we're still, we just lost. It felt like we just lost. And I hated that. I knew that was why we're going to lose today and possibly again tomorrow

until we finally shake it, get back to being normal. That made me think of that. Um, well that's simply the celebration one helped you in that day. Right, right. Right. And then same with that 30 minutes. Like fine, salt for 30 minutes, whatever. And then yeah, people can come in, whatever.

It's just so easy to go through the motions. Win or lose. Like, all right. Well, now I get treatment. I have to do this now. Right. Exactly. And it's like, hold on.

Let's, let's celebrate the guys of the player of the game. That's right. Or bring guys in and make everyone feel a part of it. If a reliever got big outs, right? Those guys are on islands out there. Pitchers. So it was, it was incredible. But losing hard for 30 is also,

for him because somebody may have had like some guys have a good game too you know and then but we've lost so they have to respect it yes to control all of that also there's there's respect built into both sides of that whether to celebrate because some guys when you win had a horrible day no yeah you said but they still have to rebel in the win yes that taught me big time yeah that's a veteran team yeah yeah when i would be bad or not play well i had to be so and it helped me get over not playing well because it was like winning cures everything absolutely if i stunk and we won it was like like all right and that's that's awesome then not everybody's like that yeah yeah you know yeah well you got you got to learn that skill set from around good veterans that's right leadership it's like

no no no we won I know you had a bad day made three errors and went over but like back to tomorrow because that's the one I think that the short term memory is so important in baseball in particular because it is every there's no coincidence I was coming back down 3-1 no no that was all literally two years of life lessons sure that were all learning from veterans and young guys Yeah, it was just, yeah. And when we were talking about trust, I thought of, I came into your office one day, and I was like, this is the type of manager that you were to me.

They were like a second dad as my manager. And it was, I was like, man, last night, I think we went to the aviary in Chicago, and they make these, like, crazy drinks. We drank a bunch of wine, Emily and I. I was, oof, got after last night. Oh, nice. You asked me what I was drinking, how I was feeling.

I was like, all right, you just hit the middle one today. And it was like, I walk out of there. I feel so well. I just told my manager I got absolutely annihilated last night and he supported me. I probably went out and had a great game. Sometimes it's necessary, brother. Sometimes it's necessary. That's we play every day.

We play every day. And for those that have never played every day, have no idea what that feels like. And I'm not just talking about physically. The mental part of this game is a devastating part of this game. When you can control your thoughts and your actions mentally, that's a difference between being a superstar. just another guy. Being a big leger, being a 4A guy,

guy that really can never get over the hump from AAA to that 4A, we call it 4A because it's the tweener guy between being a minor league or in a major leaguer, but you can't get over that. It's not because your skills aren't good. Your brain just can deal with it, man. And when you can deal with it, when you learn how to like throw it away, I used to tell a guy sometimes you see that big lake out there. Oh, yeah.

I called it a notion. on the ride home tonight, take all those thoughts, wrap it around a big old rock, throw it in that lake, and then come back tomorrow because you don't need those thoughts. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, Nick?

Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys?

I honestly don't remember I think it was on a call about what we should call it And we were thinking I'm originally calling it One of the early names of our band Before Jonas Brothers This is how you guys remember it going down Yes I have a very different memory of this

We were talking about a thing A bit for the podcast For people could call in and say hey Jonas And then I wrote down on my little Notepad Hey Jonas And offered it up as a potential title For the podcast But thanks for remembering that

guys listen to hey jonas on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast just listen we don't care where you hear it another podcast from some s nl late night comedy guy not quite unhumor me with robert smigel and friends me and hilarious guests from jim gaffigan to bob odenkirk to daviderman help make you funnier this week my guest s nl's mikey day and head writer streeter sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter there's that we're a singer in the group The worst? Yeah. Me.

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you do. at your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough

because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise.

Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I always said when I played, if I was able to mentally shut off for one hour, it was equivalent to two weeks of course. Of course. So like I'd go out on Lake Michigan or hang out with some friends or go out in Chicago or on the road. Or Tiesto, me, you, and Hap are at Tiesto. Yeah.

I was so hung over on a flight home when I was in special assistant. And I check the box score when we land. And him and Hap had the only RBI. So I'm like, yeah, I think guys won. And I'm like, how in that heck are they even seeing? That's funny. Yeah. Well, I remember spring training one year.

It's all right. Spring training one year, we go to Vegas every year. Yeah, right. You called me in the office, and I lined it up perfect. I was going to play the first game. You were giving me off the second game. And I was like, let's set the whole night up, right? Joe calls me in his office maybe a day or two before he goes, hey, you know, Vegas puts on a big show.

Right, right. They need you to play the second game. I'm like, oh, and I told them I had this whole night. I'm like, oh, he's like, don't worry about it. He's like, you're going to come in, have a great night. There's going to be three balls, try to hit the center one. And then I brought the idea up, I think, of the Bloody Mary station and the Mimosa Bar. Okay, okay.

And the next morning, in Vegas, we had a Bloody Mary bar before the game, the Mamosa station. And it was like, we were there to work and also have fun. And if you don't do both, it's detrimental. You're going to implode at some point. That's the point. It's all about balance. The whole world's about balance. Your life's about balance.

You got a new baby right now. You know exactly what that feels like. Once you have a child of your own, you understand what the word sacrifice really means. And until you have that baby, you'll never really know what the word sacrifice truly means. Everything's exposed to you as you go through life. And in baseball, right now. And I'm just going to pound on it for a second because right now, the things we're talking about are not really embraced anymore. They're not really considered important anymore.

And to me, they're the most important part of it. All the other stuff that you want to teach me, that's great. And I want, I want that, like I said, the best coaches, want the best staff. whatever but I also want a pressure release valve there's enough pressure being applied to athletes I was watching the the NBA game last night with the spurs and the Knicks all of a sudden you're playing a championship game in the first month of the season pretty much my god that's kind of like the WBC classic I guess right you know a couple years going yeah yeah yeah yeah pitch that but anyway I believe in the pressure release foul and

I don't I don't know that enough people understand that everybody that everybody that's really never done what you guys have done. I have so much respect for what you guys have done. And that's where my, my perspective comes from. I never did it. I was, I was good maybe once, two, three times a week at the most as a baseball player. And so the guy that could play every day, I think, how the hell is he, how can he, how can he maintain his focus, his sanity, and not only that, your physical repetition of your skill. Now, that's, that's big. Because, you know, to be able to do, everybody takes it for granted whether it's your good batting stroke whether it's your good

throwing stroke your good fielding stroke whatever it might be to do that every day is just than 1% of the population whatever it's so special you and I are so different he was a switch I was a switch guy when he was playing his switch was always on okay so he'd come in

he's playing once every fifth day all jazz golf on me I'm playing once every day like course I tell less it was perfect you felt like it'd be perfect yeah and I was up Lester's ass because I'm like, if you suck today, I don't get to hit. I only get three at bats, not four. And then who hears about it?

He had a great argument one night at one day in my office about something. I said, I pitched it for you or something like that. Oh, in Pittsburgh. Yeah, you came in. He got really pissed off. We had a great conversation. It was good. I remember exactly how it went down.

But you were always open. Well, I think it was like it was in 15. And I think I got pinched it for and from like a little. He was like angry. elf when he yeah it was just like yeah it's just one of those things you always hated getting pinch it for but i didn't think the guy pinched for me was better than me you know it's one of those so uh so it's so it was al contra or something like uh oh it could have been yeah the little uh switch hit do it to pop yeah yeah it's fast but he never had the big league pop we tried to pawn that's when

it set it me off i remember um but you would get mad of me because i would be off and i would keep my switch off all right i know i would go kind of go rosses you, I could flip the switch at any time. He's like, my switch always needs to be on. When I managed, I came in and ripped the team one day, just had an explosion, which there wasn't many of those, but he, afterwards, he came to him off and he goes, I almost, I had to hold myself back from laughing on this video. I was like, you know, but I want to get into 15 and talk a little bit about, we have our

ideas, but when did you think we were good in 50? When do you're like, oh, these guys figured it out? Was there a moment or what was? We feel like it was San Francisco. Remember us? Yeah. Four game sweep. Yeah.

What was that? August? That was late August. Yeah, yeah. And that was also Addison at shortstop and Starling at the second base. KB had just, oh. First question. Sorry.

I got to hit this. This is a good one. How hard did you fight for KB to break camp with us in 15? Or did you at all? I didn't. Did you have to say? No, there was nothing I could do because it's all about the rules. I mean, they could deny as much as they want, but it's all about the rules.

There's nothing you can do about that. Not a thing. It was going off. Perfectly. It happened with Longoria here when I was with the race. Long ago went down for a couple weeks and came up and tore it up. Yeah. KB was down, came up and tore it up. It's not.

You just know the process. Yeah, it's nobody's fault. There's just the rules of the game. That's all that was. So there's nothing to fight. Division by what two games? Yeah. Those extra.

But there's nothing to fight as a manager. There's nothing I could have done as, As, okay, as a Gene Mock manager, that would have never happened. As an Earl Weaver, that would have never happened. I don't even know if the rules were... The managers had control. Oh, my God. Everybody, I mean, everybody, was afraid to come into your clubhouse.

The GM, the assistant GM, anybody else that worked upstairs was afraid to come in a big league clubhouse. It was that daunting. I love that. I'm not, that is not an exaggeration. That's how it should be. That's exactly the truth. If the players take over the right way. I think the good GMs are the ones that are in there every day.

but in a positive way, right? Like giving, given better, better feedback. Yeah. But when did you feel like we were good? The famous Miggie Montero. We are good. We are good. When did I feel we were good?

I was like, honestly, the San Francisco series, because I remember driving to the ballpark, we were good before that. I can't remember, I can't give you a specific time. We were building. We were building. But we never, we couldn't win a bunch of row, but we didn't lose a bunch of role.

We just kind of. I thought that San Francisco series was the seminal moment, because it was the job. Giants. And I remember driving my pickup truck down Clark on the way to the ballpark. I'm getting myself jacked up because I thought this is big. I never apply more weight to anything, but I thought this one's kind of big. To handle the Giants right now could really send us on the trajectory we're looking for. And it did. So we're going there and we win the first street and then the last game, we got the bases loaded and nobody out. We're up three to two and Rondon gets out of it somehow. Is that right?

Yeah, right? But I thought that was a seminal moment in the year where we, after that, we knew we were good. We did. It's not about when I did. It's like when the guys know you're good. Everybody was contributing, everybody. But our defense got tight. Our defense, I mean, with Addison there and Starling over there.

Everything changed defensively, which really was big at that point. Yeah, I think for me, if I had a, because I'm answering the question based on the fact I remember driving on Clark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's pretty good. Well, we all have our mom. I remember us sweeping them and they had two championships on their bell. That was the other part. And they said all those guys, Buster and all the boys, Linscomb and Baumgartner.

I mean, they were bloated. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. In 2015, you had to move a superstar shortstop from shortstop to second base. And he did it with. He was great. Staling Castro was so, he was such a good leader, especially a Latin leader, which

It was like amazing to for me he was one of my biggest mentors when I was young But for it to be able to do that and move him off shorts off the second and him be feel good about it was like I have so much a story in itself I remember okay we're talking right now I'm sitting in that little manager's office and starting sitting right over there right and I'm explaining things to him You know I'm sure I'm sure he hated it right but he'd never he never did this respectful He listened all the way through and this is really the the the best part about that for me as a manager because I think it's the way it should be. It was just me. It wasn't like a front office dude with me or anything like that. It wasn't like I was not being supported or the conversation didn't include other voices. It was just me and him. I think that's value as it should be. No doubt.

The only time you bring somebody else in, you think there's going to be a fight and the guy's pretty big. But anyway, he sat there and he took it and I told me what's going to play for a couple days. I told him that because we wanted to get him used to second base and never cried or complain you remember how well he played after that yeah oh yeah yeah he done that from alfonso soriano because soriano was such a good leader and he sorry he would have like i think sorry one year played the assistant is the entire really he wanted to play every day yeah starlin taught me every day in 13 i hit like 230 hey keep your head up we play every day you play every day i don't care if you're we play every day wow and i learned as a young player that's how

that's valuable that's how you earn of course upmost amount of respect when you said talking about that yeah you some of some advice i've passed along ago i've used a lot it's like when i was managing it's like you know i tell the guys the truth because if i lie to him you know like give them that line you know yeah i mean uh it's it's not only in baseball but anything else if i if i tell you the truth you might not like me for a week or 10 days but if i lie to you you can hate me forever and that's such a truth and and going back on players experience and especially when i was coming up it was a little bit more they would sugarcoat some things or not to eat right and all you wanted to do as a man is like just tell me what you're

where I stand, right? Then it's on me. And you did a good job with that, but that phrase I've used so much just because it's like, again, you try to have compassion with it, but I'm going to hit you with the truth, knowing I'm on your side, I'm on your side, but I'm going to just be completely honest and transparent because I think that's the best way to, for you to be able to deal with it and us to move forward. Everybody moves forward after that's right. Exactly what. Otherwise, there's always this consternation, interpretation. What does he really mean? All this stuff, you're questioning it. Right, it gets dragged out.

This is the sharp knife compared to the dull knife. Always use the sharp knife. Always, when it comes to a tough decision, use a sharp knife. Because then it has a chance to heal more quickly. The dull knife, you get a bad edge. It just, it gets, it doesn't scar properly, whatever, and eventually turns in like a scar tissue that really never goes away. Use a sharp knife.

When you use the sharp knife, like you just said, everything moves forward rather quickly after that. Another pioneer thing was you would send the lineup out the night before. Oh, yeah. And that was, I never heard of that. I did that. I don't know if you did. Now it's almost a custom standard practice because if I'm, for me, thankfully, I played a third or four every single day.

But I never worried about it. You got to get that in every show. But being a leader on the team and say half wasn't playing or Shoreba wasn't playing, you got to talk to them off the ledge. And if you get to the field and they see that day that they're in the line, and then they're pissed off all day. Over 162, it just takes a little chink of the armor, you know, and you need all guys pulling the same road. I'll tell you how I learned that.

Darren Erstad. You guys know, Erstead. Dude, don't mess with Ersteen. He's salty. He's salty. I never played with him. I love that, man. He reminds me a lot like he's like got ugly.

Like he's going to try to, he's going to do whatever it takes to win. Correct. Yeah. Sox was the manager, and we didn't do that. We didn't put the lineup out the night before. So going the next day, and I'm in charge. I'm the bench coach doing all the paperwork and stuff. I've got to go tell Erstie's not in the lineup.

Oh, my God. He says, why do you tell me last night? Because if you don't tell somebody the night before, they're not in the lineup, an everyday guy, then you really don't have a day off. I totally agree. Or the night off. Right, because you go through your whole routine, you get up at the same time, you eat whatever you want to eat, you come.

to the ballpark at the same time. So you don't, you really don't get a day off unless somebody knows they have a day off, a regular player the night before. Like the utility guy, not necessarily as much, but a regular guy really needs to know the night before for him to truly have a day off. So Ersdy taught me that. So I used to do that even before that, though. I did that in instructional leagues. When I did instructional leagues, I used to put a week's worth of lineups up in advance. So everybody knew when they were playing. In instructional league, you'd play at different days obviously, not just an everyday guy. But I wanted to do that. I wanted to guys to requisition their work in a way that we can maximize their work and they knew what they had to do on a

daily basis yeah so when i got to my as an interim manager i was that a couple of times with angels i would i would have the lineup as an as they were walking out the after the night game whatever on the on the door as they walked out would be the next day's lineup and that's when i started doing it so that was in 96 i was an interim manager and 99 it was an inner manager that's when that's when we that there. I remember this. It was so good. And I'm going to plug Corona here. Stropi. Stropi was grinded for us for like in August or September. And you told him the night before you are not pitching tomorrow. And then next day there was like a little blow up pool in his locker with a bucket of Corona's a little umbrella and like a beach chair. And I was dying because you you recognize that

and you're like no, you've grinded for us. You're down. And enjoy it. And always for me, it was like when I was down, I knew I wasn't playing for the most part. Or I was, I turned off until like the biggest situation. Right, it had to be like something dire that we had to use you. But yeah. Well, and front offices now, the one thing that I, I definitely saw as a player and tried to use as a manager, like you give your everyday player. It's not an off day if you're expecting them to pinch hit in the seventh or eight.

Guys now turn on the fourth. Right. Right. If you can't, if you turn on when you're an everyday player, if your mind turns on, it's not an off day. Yeah. So when I would, like, I would tell young guys, I told Anthony Volpe, he hurt his shoulder and he had a couple of days off.

I'm like, dude, just watch the game with no expectation. That's right. Just be a fan of the game. Sit on the top step and like enjoy where you are. And if you have to turn on to get a pinch it, just do it. It's one at bat. Like, stay off because that stress, that mental stress every day. The value of off days are.

The value of the everyday player. I've backed up Brian McCann in Atlanta. I was like, my one goal is not to get this guy up off this seat. You know, like that's how I can. Yeah, you just wanted to win. Yeah, I want to win today because I know if we're winning, he doesn't pinch hit for me or for somebody and go in. But fast forward to the end of 15 a little bit.

I think the Pittsburgh wild card game is the most important game that comes. I think that was the most wild game of all time. How about it? You let you let Arelletta go CG. Right. The nastiest picture on the planet by far. But that would be so taboo in today's games. Are you kidding me?

Well, well, Yamamoto just did it right with the Dyer's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but let me give you the history on that one. You remember we were playing Minnesota in Minnesota and Jake Pish's a nine inning complete game, shut out. I think it was a four hitter. It might have been a two four hit or whatever,

but we went eight nothing. So I got a lot of crap because they did not pull them out when we started leading eight nothing in that game. We were out with a closer game, I think seventh or eighth inning. we scored several runs and eventually made it eight nothing going into the ninth inning i think he had like that right around 110 pitches easy to pull him at that point the thing that i learned as a minor league coach i thought instructor when the dude walks off the mouth with a complete game shut

out changes them changes them and i thought and i thought within limits let him go back out there i think he ended up with nine innings 122 123 124 shut out and very limited number of hits well both lot of confidence that's it I mean you you a mind once another one and mine once stretched has a difficult time going back to its original form so then once you stretch your mind to nine innings and I like this it's a drug I want to do this all the time I got a lot of crap from the front office quite frankly about that I love that why did you why did you pull them after a I gave him the exact reason I'm telling you right now I can remember Colin charlin pitching a complete game in Palm Springs

and whatever the year that was I'm the roving instructor David Holdridge same thing I guys you've never heard about But it definitely enhanced their minor league careers at that point. But so when he gets at the playoff game in Pittsburgh, Jake's done that before. Why do I want to go to? No doubt in his mind. He's tweeting.

He's tweeting. I don't know if you saw those. Like there, because Pittsburgh was loud. I mean, that place when Addy made the air and there was places. I couldn't even, I couldn't hear myself breathe there. I mean, it was loud. They were nasty. Yeah, so it was Pennsylvania.

All black. The whole stadium was blacked out. Yeah. And he's tweaked before it doesn't matter. It doesn't. And he just goes out there. They try to hit him. Tony Watson hits him.

Yeah, remember that. Yeah, right. Yeah, little benching clear. Right. That's right. That, too, was another. That celebration after that was like two hours. Oh my gosh.

I remember the, the, the floors of that. Yeah. Like that clubhouse was ruined. That was epic. And then we beat the Cardinals, who were the gold standard. That's right.

That was a big one. Right. We had to take it from that. You have to take it from them. And we did because they beat our ass. That's right. I said this to us. the beginning of the year yeah the games we lost in st louis we didn't know how to win yet that's right

that's correct because we were we're winning and then they came back and it was like these motherfuckers yeah exactly and then i take the ball back i said this to him i remember the the coaches he's always come over to the the the weight room uh hey riz what's on man how are you oh the cardinal coaches yeah we started beating them they never saw that never never saw oh okay isn't that beautiful thing see keep that that's right exactly right that's but i remember the game in pittsburgh my god but it's one of the more we play some almost perfect games like in 16 against the Dodgers when the quencher against the Dodgers, Kyle Hendrick. That's like almost the perfect game.

That was like a perfect baseball game. But that game in Pittsburgh, that really did put us in a different stratosphere. Yeah, totally. I remember how loud it got. We made one error in that basis load. Remember you that? That's what I was saying. That double play.

And you were like, wow. Oh, I was seeing stars. Shireless. I never. That was my first time in the playoffs. First game. I'm like, what? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So in 2015, we beat the Cardinals. Right. We roll into the Mets. I'm fully convinced we're winning the World Series. That's first time winning our chemistry, and we run into the bussaw of that gauntlet of a pitching staff. We get swept.

Heartbreak. Did everything we could, the magician, I think, Jack Hammer. Magician was great. Jack Hammer. Jack Hammer. Oh, but we left that feeling like I was heartbroken. broken we come into 16 and it was like we were already the world-serge champions it I felt that I don't know if anyone else I feel like everyone that was the way it was the best camp I've ever had

all the skits that my wife thank you that's right that's right but in the back of the that's a whole other show the back of a band but it was just everything was like so in flow right guys were doing their job we knew what it took we were determined we were hungry and We go into that season, we get off to this insane start, right? What, the third game, fourth game, Shorebur goes down? Yeah. Huge blow. Like, devastating because he was a dog.

Yeah. And he was one of our guys. And as early as Lackey's first start, the Diamondbacks put up, what, five or six runs off him in the first, and we just boat race them. Yeah, exactly. And it was like, we can't be beat. It was insane that start to that season.

But that's where embrace the target came, man. And I thought, like, you know, you had to kind of marinate over that all offseason. And there's so many things that came from that I still, that are kind of in my soul as a baseball guy. It's like, you know, having the target on your back is a good thing. And, you know, just know we're not perfect, right? Like, it's in process. And the things that built us as a championship team with the hunger of getting so close and losing the year before, the process is fearless, constantly reduced.

Like the things that you had on the Embrace the Target shirt in spring training, like all that's a culmination of the culture we talked about earlier, going into a team that had a lot of young guys, but a lot of expectations. Yeah, that's kind of interesting, man, because that all happened. That started in the winter meetings after the 2015 season. Might have been in San Diego. I'm not sure what the winter meetings were at the time.

However, you remember the manager gaggle. Everybody gets in front of the manager and they start firing questions. Now, we have not won anything since 1908. 108 years. Right. And all of a sudden, now you're being picked to win the World Series, right? How does that happen? So I remember we're there and I'm getting all this stuff fired at me and I didn't

did not ruminate. I didn't think about this at all. But all of a sudden I just said, we just need to embrace the target. That's how it came out. I was being pressed against the wall. Hey, we just got to embrace the target. And then from that, all this other stuff flowed out of that. That's exactly what happened.

But I do, I've always had the mindset. I like the word pressure a lot. I like the word expectations a lot, not a little bit, a lot. Because whatever you're doing, if you do not have pressure and expectations apply to it, why do it? I mean, what am I doing here? Even if you play golf, you want at least a quarter, you know. You said that in spring training. You said, guys, the expectations are a good thing.

Like, think about that. You said that in our little, we're out there on those stretch feet. Yeah, yeah. It is. It's a good thing. And I think too many times people run away from those words. And they see them as being a negative or ominous. And I honestly believe it's completely the opportunity.

Think about it. You just talked about the most disappointing time you ever had was after the 2015 season. And that totally raised your level of expectation the next year. And you ran right toward that. That whole thing, that whole shirt that I built up on that. That took me some time. That was done on my iPad. And I don't know why, but I do things like that once in a while.

How could I make the point? Started with like 9 equals 8 here with the raise. Right. In 2008, I did that. Even like in 1986 or seven, I had a shirt for the boys in minor league camp. Everyday counts. So that's where it began. This one had together.

And then after that was nine is one. That's right. That's right. That's right. That was from, that line was from Kenya Reviso. I always showed all my stuff to Kenny. Yeah. So Kenny, I was living in Long Beach, too.

And Kenny was right down the street. I would run all my stuff by the dirt bags before. I said, Kenny was set up a meeting. I'd go into the clubhouse, the locker room with the Long Beach State, and I would run my spring training stuff. Wow. And these guys, just to practice. A little prep, that's it. And then Kenny would always, Kenny didn't like the process as fearless.

He didn't get it at first. We argued about that. And I was just trying to tell them, the process lacks emotion. It's great. If you stick to the process, you could do anything. Yeah. Because you just stay with this, this, this, and this. And I don't feel anxiety, emotion.

eagerness. I don't feel any of that. I just I stick with the process. So that was that was that part of it. And then you know the parts, the little ancillary things on the outside of it, you know, just keeping yourself together. There's something there about Coach Welsh, Walsh with these 49ers was in there. A guy by name of Welch with GE changed before you have to. I think all these different things are involved in that. All the things I thought. Yeah. I just try to encompass it in this big circle with an arrow through. That was That was the target. That was like that weird little arrow. But anyway, that was me on an iPad trying to make sense. Because how do I sell this to the team?

That was always my thing. All those different things I did in spring training with those meetings. I wanted to make it interesting for you guys. And I wanted to get the point across. I want something to hold your attention. And even right down to the paintings that occurred later. And also those paintings were for me, hopefully, to attract young fans. Like kids that really aren't at the baseball.

Oh, that's kind of a cool painting. So all these things had a purpose. Of course. For respect 90 glasses. I love her shirt. Yeah. That was, that was everything. Everything had a purpose that I was doing.

And it was a lot of pressure on me in a good way because I didn't want to disappoint. I had to try to outdo myself every year. That's how I looked at. That was my edict to myself. Do better than you did last year. That was it. And that's what I tried to do. Well, you certainly didn't disappoint because you are the greatest second to Frank Chan.

But, Frank's got me. He had two of them. He had two of them. Well, we've got two rings. We can't speak for everybody. That's right. We do have two rings. We boat race all here.

We had a little blimp before the All-Starbrae, which was virtually nothing in the grand scheme of how. I remember you saying, though, this is what happened. When you get off to such a good start, you have room for error. That's right. And then we kind of went on cruise control, and then in September, I feel like the team ramped it back up. Right. And our first, our play.

journey was not easy we have the even year of the Giants which is a real was a real thing and thank God we came back in game four because we did not want to see Quato again that's cool in game five right right and a lot happened in that series then we go and I'll see us where we were talking about the move that you went and with you pinch it Al Morrow and then they brought in Blanton and then you pinch it Miggie knowing that Miggie just got a cordonedone shot right or did you know that I did not know that no thank God probably I didn't know it would have mattered I remember seeing that that that to me was like one of the like

the chess played there you know you there's things as a player every once in a while I was like wow our magic man's ass off what did you know who we would we pinch it for originally with do you do yeah of course you do for all this Chapman really so he brought chapie in earlier in that game and he was holding everything down and i moved them i double switch to the point i double switch to the point where i thought he'd never come up and then he came up and the freaking bases are loaded so i'm not going to let chapie hit right there So it took a shot and then yes, you have to know in advance that if I send the right, we did the same thing against the Giants when we beat him in that fourth game.

But anyway, you got to know if they do this, we're going to do that. Now, Blanton, if you remember, it was also kind of a reverse split guy. He had this, that cutter slider that came in on the lefties. And you get so an 02 count. And that might be one of the loudest home runs that, I mean, off the bat that I think I've ever heard. I remember, looking back, I remember Miggie on so much off speed late in the year, whether he would like, you know, I just remember that vividly when he hit that home run.

I'm like, this slider's going to go right into his, but, you know, you had those thoughts. It did. It did. It did. Freaking. He crushed that ball. It was so loud. But yeah, that was, so I mean, listen, I'm debating because you, like I said, you double switch them. I think we moved them eight hitters away from where a lead off here was going to be. So I thought, that's, that's sake. We should be able to score some runs by then. Then I could actually leave them in if we get to that point. But sometimes the math doesn't work out. And that's exactly what happened. and that's because I did not want to take a roll

the side of the game, but we had to do it at that point and then you have to rely on the other dudes, but that was a big moment. And as well as, you're saying, game four against the Giants, to me, that was the World Series. How hard is it looking back now when you're in that moment? You know, the double switches in the National League

were a mastermind of their own. Dude, it was so good. Or was it just, because you love, I remember when you came over, you're in, I love the National League. It's much better. Manage more. That's right.

So, but you're in that moment. with NLCS, we're 108 years, we win that series, we're one of the world series. I've been there in, what, 60 plus years? Making those decisions in the heat of the moment is, cannot be easy. Well, it's not easy, but you think about them in advance.

I mean, that's the whole thing. I mean, I, like I said, I knew he moved them eight spots. And then, okay, I wasn't worried about it until I had to start worrying about it. And then you have to start playing it all the way out. And then it was like, who's going to be the pinch hitter, if, in fact, we're going to do that.

So that was the beauty of the nap. nationally game. And everybody pooh-poo's that. I'm here to tell you, man, anybody that says it's just like a double switch, your butt. I mean, there's so many things that go on. I mean, there's times Davey really helped me out, because sometimes I would do some things that required a lot of movement. And I get lost sometimes. And Davey would, like, help me out with putting it back together. Because when you start doing all the things we did, like moving guys, pitchers to the outfield, the back, and things like that, it can get kind of confusion sometimes. Yeah, I'm glad they took it out. I'm sorry, man.

But here's the thing, though, I loved it because I feel. felt we could have an advantage. Because if I know what I'm doing with that, then that works as an advantage for us versus the group that's not as bold. You know, doing something, you've got to be bold to do those things. And again, if you're losing, sky's limit. Do whatever you want.

If you're tired or winning, it becomes more difficult. And that situation, we were up by run. Yeah, that's difficult. Take your closer. That's right. That's right. That's right. When we got Chapman at that deadline,

it was like just another shot of, confidence in our group. I've been on teams for 13, 14 years. There was one time at the deadline that I felt like as a player, we won the deadline, and I was 2016. We traded the Chapby. We went out and got the best reliever on the market to solidify already a really deep back end bolt.

And it was like, holy shit. And I felt the same way. The only other time I felt that way was 2013, the Red Sox we won. And they went out and got Jake Peavy, who at the time was the best starter that on the market. You know, when your front office implants, like, we know what you do. need and we're going to go get it for you. That's another part of like, I think wedding organizations that just goes unnoticed a lot of the times because people play the long game and the safe game. You only have so often, right. You only have so often to go for it.

It's all about the long game anywhere, man. I don't even know. It's like everybody's got a four or five year plan and nobody ever wins. I mean, I don't get it. I don't understand all that stuff. I mean, I understand what they're doing, but I don't understand why they do it. Yeah, Theo made it. They made a great move on that. We don't, we don't do that without all this. We could not have done that without how much we relied on that. I mean, listen, I, you know, if you remember at that time, I think stroppy got hurt right at the end of that season. That one, no, that's that when he hurt his knee. He did hurt his knee or something. Covering third base. Covering third base.

Hamstring, maybe. Covered did something. Right. So and stropey was out of the mix a little bit. Hector was like not as good because he would have been impacted by Chapman being there. Well, I thought we, I thought that's the one thing that you look back on and, you know, we got chappy and then kind of some of our horses that had driven us got kind of sideline. And from a manager's perspective, like, I think I leaned a lot into veterans, like, safety for veterans for me. But you really did a nice job of, like, Montgomery and C.J. Edwards and, like, these guys, Grimmer. Remember that? Remember that, getting out of that basis loaded jam? Yep.

What is that when you see that is that your gut, that your eyes, you're right, the eyes, yeah. Eyes. I think, for me, I think it's my eyeballs. And listen, I, I'm so grateful. like I said, or I think I said it earlier, that it took me so long to become a major league manager, I scout it for a long time. And I still consider the most important thing I've ever done in order to become a big league manager successfully would be to have been a scout.

Because I think I could see talent before talent becomes talent sometimes. So Carl Edwards, I mean, my God, I mean, I love that boy. Yeah, it was devastating. And then, I mean, how about Montgomery? I mean, and I didn't realize it at the time, but of course, Borsi did. The last out of the World Series, Martinez was sitting like 1-10 against Lieutenant Curbballs.

So he's just feeding McGee Curbaw, Curbaw. How about Boisey having that info? Like having that info. Oh, and right, exactly. It's their 25th man on their roster. Had not seen one at bat or any, and we know that.

That's what he did. That's what our guys were prepared. You're talking about process and preparation. Like, everybody was on board doing their job at that moment. And so you have, you have that. I thought it was genius too, because Raja was going to steal that bag. I couldn't believe he didn't go.

I couldn't believe. I was like, he's going. Right. For the very first picture, I thought he was gone. I think the left, he scared him. A little bit, you're right. Right, just held him a little bit. You're right.

You're right. You're right. Probably something that you don't equate for actually helps out because I'm thinking, well, you bring him in before that. I was like, well, Rajay's fixing steel. That's right. Now he's at second now base hit ties it up. CJ wasn't good at holding runners on either. No, no, no, no.

What was your process? Like, what are you telling your staff going into the World Series? Where all this pressure on your career, it's real, right? Yeah. We did a great job at quality. But you're the lead bull with your coach. Is it business as usual? Yes.

Don't change the thing. Don't change your thing. No more meetings. Don't try to get smarter. Just do what we've been doing all year. I think that's the trap. Teams that try to get smarter, add more information, more scatter reports, more people in the clubhouse,

more data analysts coming downstairs to try to help you out. I ran into it with the late 1990 Angels, which we didn't never really got anywhere. but we get closer to the playoffs at the end of the year and all of a sudden everybody beat it. The Skyny reports will get bigger, giving guys more information. More people around.

Oh my God, it's like, are you kidding me? It's the exact opposite. Sure. It's less info. It's less people around. It's status quo as much as you possibly can't. Reduce. I didn't take BP.

I didn't take BP one time in a little serious. There you go. Because I didn't want to go out to the soap opera. There you. That's fine. Me and KB. And I think Dex, too. We just stayed in.

you guys did all right but that's because of yeah you're back and you're afraid you gave us the right we we had that level of confidence that we can do that there's a lot of guys that feel like they have to go and do it see that's just that's that's the classic cover my ass situation that is there's nothing to do with anything you know or believe that's covering my butt that's all that is all this um choreography before the games is also a cover my butt situation If somebody needs X work, I'm there. I'll be the first guy out there. I want them out there.

But if you don't necessarily need early work or don't need it every day, an athlete that is both mentally and physically not tired is much better than all this, all these different work that you want to put out there that you're going to get mentally or physically exhausted, they don't realize, people that really haven't done it. You can't hold that many thoughts. You can't hold that many thoughts. Too simple better. Right.

I don't want you holding that many thoughts. I can't hold that many thoughts. Although I will say this, and I've always said this, you could inundate the staff with as much until as you possibly want. But then it's up to the staff to give you the nuggets that we think are necessary. Like Borsey, like Borsey's better than any analytical staff there is to prepare a game plan on any nightly basis. I used to have Borsey after every year. Mike Borzell, this is our catching, break me down fully what I wasn't good,

because it's so hard as. everyday player to realize where you're missing. One year, one year, Freddie Freeman told me he was like, hey, we don't play the rest of this year. And I don't think we're going to see each other in the playoffs. And he goes, you're not swinging at first pitch breaking balls. And I'm like, what? I didn't know that. I get traded. It's 2021. I get traded in the playoffs that year, first pitch breaking ball from Evaldi. I'm aware of this now. Gomer and the wildcard game with the Yankees. Information is powerful. It's crazy. But sometimes you just don't know.

And then when you have people that you trust that tell you these things, but if you don't trust them and they tell you these things, you're like, yeah, that's right. Get out of here. It's not, it's useless at that point. Game seven, should we start talking? You want to, I do want to start talking the World Series. Yeah. How special was that?

My God. You had been doing before with the race. I did with the race and the Angels. So we went with the Angels in 2002, but I was the bench coach. Managing the race. Raised as a manager. And that was, think about it. That team, I think, won 70 games year before.

You know, 70, I think they once maybe 60, and I don't even know. But then you go and you, we didn't win the division. We were the wildcard team. But you end up playing the Phillies and the World Series. We beat the Red Sox. Yeah, I was on that red Sox. Yeah. So you remember the ground ball?

I mean, we were up three to one in that and you guys came back. I was at those games. That was 08. We talked about that. That's the first time we met. And we had the same agents. I was going through my. I left him tickets.

The young buck. Yeah. Left him tickets. I was with the Red Sox, though, so I was happy they won game six. But we're there. And we are down 3-1. Yeah. And I was like, no, this ain't happening.

Because last year we were down 3-0, and it was like our win was out of the sales. Right. This year, we were, last year we went in and we were talking and all this stuff. And what we believed in the clubhouse we do, if we just won game five. Yeah. Right? Because that was a gauntlet of a game at Riggily. What was your take on?

I had a pizza party that night. My kids were in town. I had pizza over at the, I was living right off Lake Shore. We had a big room downstairs. I don't know if I rented. We just got it. All my kids were there, a bunch of, my mom was there. Pizza party.

I really felt good. I felt our pitching was lined up properly for the games in Cleveland. Totally. I did. I never lost faith. Absolutely not. That was Halloween. I wore a Halloween outfit on the bus.

It was like a suit with a bunch of daggers. We went trick-or-treating. You remember we had to push the plane back and the busses back so we could go trick-or-treating. I wanted to try to keep it as normal as you possibly can. That's always been my method. When you stop being, get it normal or outside your normal paths, that's what people is I tend to go up. So my main objective is always to keep it as real as you possibly can. But I never lost faith.

I never did. Arietta and Kyle, I felt good. I felt good. Lester, game five, too. That's my favorite game five. came in, I think, in like the seven. There was no, what else you do? Yeah.

There's no games. Yeah. There's no games. Hey, it's us, the Jonas brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news.

We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas,

guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call. about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down?

Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an Acapella band with their between songs banter.

There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Huber me I need some jokes to make me seem funny Last night, a blown call changed a game This morning, the internet lost its mind Highlights are trending, opinions are flying And nobody's telling you exactly what happened That's where sports slice comes in I'm Timbo, every episode we're cutting through the noise

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So that was the one thing, I think the only thing I ever questioned was leaving him in to go out in the ninth in game six. You're right. I just hit the Homer. That's right. And I remember the dugout, like, can we get Travis Wood in? Like, yeah. And he went back out. I think he gave him a run.

Well, he gave him. He walked, he got in four straight pictures. And then you took him out. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the only time. Because as a player, I would always, I would always ask you questions. Because I wanted to know.

Like, and I felt like I know. knew you perfectly. No, you're right. I mean, I was, I was torn on that one. I already had talked to, I think, uh, boss about getting somebody else up in case something happening, scored a bunch of runs. It was in my head. Problem with me was that I've been burned in Cleveland in the past in that particular ball. I had been. I mean, just with the Angels, I think we were leading like 9 to 1 or 9 to 2, either the 8th and 9th inning with Percival in the game and lost the game. So it's just stupid stuff like that. Yeah. And it worked out. But it was It worked out, but there's no game seven if you don't win game six, that kind of a thing also.

So I can't depend my choice right there. It worked out fine, but I knew watching Chapby toward the first hitter, get him out, get him out. He was like, he was pissed. He was, no, he was pissed, too. I thought he was. I think we were up seven or eight. Yeah, six or, yeah, it was like it was a big. That you run home or separated, right?

That was a separator, right? It's not about me. But, but no, but, sorry, hold on it. We went deep in game six. But the point was I bought him in because Lindor was hitting, and we, got out of a big situation with Lindor in that game. And again, if you don't win that, you don't play game seven. So.

Well, and we, I talked about going back to the little bit that I got to manage is like, you get burned from a game, you know, like those games that somebody comes back. My memory's too good. It sticks. It sticks, no doubt. Front office is you just talking about times. Like, yeah, this manager was burned because of this or that. Like, they start tearing stories about because you get, like, you think it, you can't take

any for granted. And then the World Series is going to be able to. No, I want the guy out there throwing 100. Okay, how much we're up. I know. That's the one thing I agree, and I've actually said that publicly. That's the one thing that I knew was wrong. I did it.

But we rectified it because he needed to pitch the next day, obviously. And game seven, do we do a shot before game seven? The whole staff to everyone do? I think we did, yeah. We did, right? I pretty sure we did. Yeah, yeah. So we all pregame.

Yeah, right. Do our shot, toast. It's last game of the season. Right. Well, you guys have. Yeah. So you guys had a good conversation. Yeah, great conversation.

Oh, yeah, about what would happen. What your plan was, it was like you never really, I hadn't been in your office much all year. And, you know, you're always kind of down. You keep things so close to the vest as far as like really what you're going to do in a game. And you told me, hey, you're coming in with Johnny. I don't know when the next day. That's right. And then we remember going down to the bullpen and how crazy that was.

And then I came in early not knowing what's going on. We had a meet you and Bos had that conversation about how does he look. And I remember saying, like he looks great, but I don't know how many bullets he's got, right? He was firing. I've never seen John. You said it's as good as you've seen him throw baseball. Something along that. Yeah, he was, he was, he was, he just wanted to go in the game.

That's what it was. Right. He had coached. My last game ever. And I didn't even consider that, right? Right. And I should have. But no, that's what you told me.

You told me how good he was. Yeah. And I trust your players. That's the beauty. But that, we talked earlier. Like, you had just, you, you didn't go in your own. office with an idea and you and I go I love it you know I mean I love it let's do it every time yeah yeah yeah I mean Lester taking me out of the game he told the story about you you guys taking me out yeah exactly

he just came to your office like I love it let's do it yeah exactly because I was not thinking about yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you know that was all john yeah yeah he told me that's like super cool but I remember when you took Kyle out I'd never Kyle's stoic right yeah yeah yeah zen master yeah yeah he had his glove in his mouth I was fucking pitching around him because he he pitched around He just walked Santana face Kipness Because he kind of owned He thought he owned Kipness And we love the Kipness matchup

I remember talking about that With Lester And I was the first time I ever heard Emotion from Hendricks And now looking back with experience 10 years later it's like If Hendricks knew That you may have pulled him

He would have pitched to Santana differently Because it was like Oh if I don't get him out Then he starts maybe pitching a little scared Definitely right So it's maybe in the moment you're like, no, he should have pitched the Kipness, right? But it's like all these things that pitchers, when pitchers get that 100 pitch mark now,

they're pitched differently. Because they're like if I don't get this guy, if they're going bad or better to matter. So you look back on it with more wisdom and it's like, thank God he didn't know that he was on a pitch. The whole thing was precipitated not by Kipness, but it was by Lindor. Because we talked about Johnny and not bringing Johnny into a dirty inning. I did not consider Santana on first base only with two ounces of dirty eating. I just didn't. That was not my interpretation of that.

But if Kipnis gets on and Santana's on, that's two guys on with two outs, and that is dirty, and that I did not want to bring Johnny into that. So it was almost like mentally my hand was forced to do what I did when I did it because I did not want to have Johnny on that out there with multiple runners. And I liked a lot the Kipness-Johnny relationship. Johnny had warmed up. That was the second time warming up already. So he would have sat down.

If he did not use him there, he would have warmed up the third time to bring him out in the game. Yeah. And at that point... It worked out if he would have made a good throw. He almost killed. There was a swinging bot and the defensive guy

who may have shit down his leg. The defensive guy? No, but... No, I mean, I'm talking about I'm not in there for my bat. And then there were Johnny to... But you hit the big home, that man. I did. Well, yeah, yeah.

It's not about you, though. It's not about me. It's not about me. But no, I mean, it was a swinging bump from Kittness. We had a mo-2 and I threw it away. And then Johnny knows, I remember the scout report, talking about Borsi, no strike breaking balls to Lindor. So he shakes to breaking ball, throws like a 30-footer.

It's on my mask. I trip over my leg, you know, two runs score. We're like, wait a minute, what happened? I just got in the game. We just like tune back in. I was, it was nuts. So that's what people don't understand. The move was made on the not dirty inning.

If Kyle doesn't get out Kipness, then now it is bad. but I do want a lefty on Lindor. I want him hitting right hand. So there's a lot going on right there. And Johnny up a third time. That's the other thing we talked about. He's firing bullets and been up twice. I probably can't get him back up.

That's another thing. That's a really difficult jigs up. And believe me, I'm thinking all this stuff in that nanosec. It's not like. Oh, totally. You have to as a manager. It was all going on. Now, we had already wound up Montgomery earlier in the game a little bit.

I think early on because if you remember, Kyle was being hit around a little bit earlier before that and some hard contact. But then again, if you bring Kyle in that particular situation, I mean, Montgomery, Mikey, that Mikey doesn't get the last out of the game. I mean, it's just like the world, the world. It's just how it played out.

So I'm not a revisionist historian. How it happened is how it happened. That was real. So you could do all the what ifs and how about it. Exactly. That can buy stuff. Right. I say this with all due respect so I can say whatever I want, right.

That's right. The fact that three days after we win the World Series and the media is like, why would we do that we just fucking broke a hundred year curse right right had a parade of a billion people five million plus right right right and there's articles being written saying joe should have did this right go get the fuck out of here that's right excuse my language well no nothing that i mean that's what's done all the time now right i mean that would have been like normal standard procedure to get Kyle out in the fifth inning seeing kipness for the third time that would have been like because he there's no one's even question exactly exactly

right going into that season Kyle was like third time through got to hit a little bit harder yeah yeah yeah yeah but it was But it was only based on what I'm telling you. It was just on the fact that if Kipness gets on and I want Johnny on Lendor, that would have been the dirty thing I was not looking for. So I was trying to get ahead of that moment. Makes sense. And Kipness with Johnny was a really good matchup.

And we got what we're looking for. It's just a tough play. That ball rolled out farther than you thought. That's what I saw. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It kept going away from you. Yeah. He's a briggis.

Well, I rushed to throw. And my hand me grabbed me a little bit. When I bust it up out of there, I just stretched a little more. What about when Rajah hits the homer? Yeah. What are you thinking? I said to Davey, I said, who's up for us next inning? Wow.

You went straight into managerial mode. I went to his up first inning, right? Who's up for its next inning? That's it. I mean, I thought that. And then the more difficult part was who to send out in the ninth inning. We sent out. You sent Chapie.

Right. The fact that Chappie got through the ninth is like its own. How many times have you seen a close or blow it in the eighth? I don't think Miggie gets enough credit. I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree 100%. Right?

Like I look back on, I was calling all heaters. Because I didn't catch Chappi that much. Right. We would, he would come in with Miggie or Contreras. And so I was like, you're catching scared. Maybe.

Well, I knew the Skyward said no sliders. And then I didn't know the splitting wasn't really a factor that year. He wasn't totally right. It wasn't really. So I just kept like, oh, it's 100. He'll pop it up. And I did.

He just went further than out. Wait, just threw it down into his bathroom. Yeah, yeah. And I looked, I remember looking. she was choked up on the bat like the length of the corona ball exactly yeah a little plug there so raja hits the home run i'm at first saying this this fucking curse is real yeah like plain dirt i'm numb my full body numb yeah and you're going who's up first next in that is like that's what i said today

i stayed to that immediately that's the face i never i moved i turned a page a lot as a catcher that i just remember I kept going back to God dang it like really like you know like it took me a minute just to turn a page on though like you hit the home run rain delay right we're in there chappy just got traded he's like he's instantly one of our brothers yeah he's in there with tears in his eyes right feels so bad because and it's like how can you feel bad do you you've thrown 40 innings this postseason right there are horse and then comes out later with your story with your dad's hat yeah and was that moment that just came out of nowhere for you?

Walk us through that. That's twice I've done that. My dad was in the dugout for the 2002 in World Series for the Angels also. Wow. Wow. My dad passed in 2002. Wow. So he died in April 15, 2002.

So where the Angels in the World Series in 2002, I had his hat in my backpack, which I took to every ballpark. So I ran upstairs in that game against the Giants. And I brought it done. I used to have that little table set up in Anaheim Stadium in the corner there. and they put the hat underneath my books looking out at the field so he's been to two world series victories so that time in cleveland i went up there and i said screwed i put in the back of my my pants like where your belt is i stuffed it down in there so i thought nobody would see it and

i think i had a jacket on at that time so i figured it was not going to be seen so i put that was during the rain delay right yeah i went up there was in a rain delay and did that that's amazing was uh when during that rain delay well i mean there was tears in the weight room with us? I don't go there. I just, I went upstairs. I wanted to see the weather map, how long this is going to last.

17 minutes. Jed was there. Jed was up there. We were looking at the map. I can't remember exactly what I talked to him about. But it's a real, it's one of those, you know,

obviously horrible moments. But you guys did, you guys did great. I mean, after that meeting with Jason, I walked out in the field and I said, damn. I mean, you guys looked like. We were ghosts in the ninth inning.

Ghosts. Yeah. But you all looked like the game was just good. to begin yeah that's that I mean the energy was outstanding whoever was leading off he walks by me and it's like he's like if this guy throws me a cutter him I'm not gonna fuck on it you know he's Shaw and I'm like that's got like you're a range in that state so and then I'm Laura with yeah the baseball you remember we worked on that

during the World Series was lost this year on a bad secondary leave that's right that we won arguably the ones World Series because of a read that he stuff we had worked standard we did we were in that standard protocol says don't tag go halfway that's right i'm more read it and i think i think hider was screaming from the just about saying yeah really good coaches yeah yeah wow but yeah it's uh yeah it's uh yeah it's how did you celebrate when the whole thing was done what went through your mind on that that last hour i was exhausted i mean i i thought when you caught the ball i thought 108 that was my first thought and i thought of my my my dad of course and then my family but also i get really happy for the coaches don't take that wrong because it's

really important for the coaches you know the salary they make compared to what everybody else to make. Sure, sure, sure. So I'm all, because I was a coach, so I'm really happy for the coaching staff that this is going to be really benefit their family. I really, that's one of the first things I think about. And then, of course, I just watch you guys

through the dog pile out there, and it's, you know, it's fabulous. So it's really weird because it's such an exhausting moment. I mean, to get to that point, to get to the seventh game of a World Series after everything that, prep for spring training, spring trainings, regular season, playoffs, on top of playoffs, on top of playoffs, down games, three games to one, come back, get in a position, win, and then actually win it. Like you're saying, there's nothing to be critical over that point.

It's just like there's so many ebbs and flows to that moment and everything somehow has to break your way at the right moment. It just has to. You know, there's good baseball luck and there's bad baseball luck. So maybe the good baseball luck that nobody talks about is the fact that they, the Indians took out Cocoa Crisp for defensive purposes for Martinez. Yeah. Had they not, then he's hitting in that particular spot and much more formidable hitter than Martinez was. So see, when you start, you start what if, what if, what if, what if, what if is life. Yeah, it's life.

I mean, what if I. Such an iconic work. It was great. You and Tito as a manager, historic Hall of Fame manager as well. What, the Indians were 60 plus years, were 108 years, the fans were just so into it. Everyone was so happy. We win. The celebration is just absolutely.

Epic, right? And it changes our lives for us. Of course, forever. Ten years later, we're talking about this reunion. Well, it's going to get even more prominent as we move it along. The war, the way that the fable's way is being told 20 years from now, 30 years from now, is going to grow. Yeah, hopefully. Did you feel like it was harder looking back on setting expectations in 2015 of how you were changing the culture and the winning ways or managing the expectations? in 16. I mean, it's me to believe for the year to believe. Yeah. I think, you know, I just, the way you described it, just they go hand-in-hand, right?

I mean, you have to set the expectations and then you have to manage them. I say, when it comes on to managing expectations, I'm more about setting them. You know, and I don't really necessarily worry about managing them. I think that if you set it upright and you got the right group and you, you know, you work your day properly, that kind of takes care of itself, I think. I mean, I never really think about that phrase to manage my expectations, but I do think about setting them up. It feels like there's a couple times that we've talked that of like you just stay in the process.

I do. I'm pretty good in the moment. I'm pretty good present tense guy. There are certain times I'll get outside of that process when you're tired a little bit. Maybe something bad happening. You're just, your confidence might have taken a little bit of a hit. But for the most part, I'm able to get back there. I don't know how much of it's Kenra visit.

all the training I did with Kenny, even as a coach. I mean, as a player, though, I was playing quarterback when I was 10, right? I'm calling my own plays when you're 10 years old, you know? So there's something to be said for that. I mean, I actually called my own plays when I was 10. And the state trooper Eagles Huggle, State Trooper Eagles Huddle, I'm calling the plays and I had audibles to call to. So what does that mean when you're 10 years old?

How does that play 15, 20, 30 years down the road? I don't know, but I did. And I was a captain on almost every team that I played on if I wasn't. And so you always have this responsibility kind of a thing. And you both are probably the same way. So how does that actually translate into being able to stay in the moment, accepting responsibility? The appropriate way to lead for me is not through intimidation, but through communication. That's the appropriate way to lead.

And I think my best dudes, and I've talked about Bob Clear in my book, Bob Clear was my guy with the Angels. He was like the best baseball coach I've ever been around. And then coach Bob Root, my backfield, my quarterback coach at Lafayette College. This man, God, I just, one of the best communicators to me. And if I came off the field and I did the right thing or I called the right play and he validated it, my God, did I get puffy? You know, because I just respected him so much. Communication. Think about in your time, not only with the Cubs, we'll talk about the Cubs in specific, how many lives you've touched as far as fans, players,

legacy, there's things that you said that I said today about what I took with me as a player that I used my whole life. And it was like, and I tell you this 10, 11 years later, and you remember these things. It's not the Ricky Bobby. I was high when I said that. Like you genuinely you generally remember. Because in that moment of my life, it was the biggest like aha moment for me that I learned and took with me. And there's hundreds of players that you're. You know, probably touched or along your journey right which is just insane to think about you know when you live a life what do you want to leave behind a legacy and it's like you're you're you're pushing me back to my minor league days right now too absolutely because i mean starting out as a minor league coach in

nineteen eighty one i was 27 like i had dicky skulfield and devon white on my first team in idaho falls as an example and i got if i wrote down all the list of the guys you did unbelievable that i that made the really good major league players um And it is, it's ominous to think that. The one thing, because you never think about that. I never think about that. Ricky Lee Jones, songwriter, singer, she wrote, you never know when you're making a memory.

It's great for a while. Yeah, you just never know when you're making a memory or whenever you're making an impact. Because I never, I never evaluate myself that way. I don't, I really appreciate what you guys are saying. You've made an impact a lot of memories for us. They can. Can, too.

You don't bring Ken? Yeah, Ken. Yeah, right, yeah. Bring this. Ken, I'll say this quick. Ken had me do a drill in spring training. Close my eyes, do my whole pre-game batting routine. Like from the on-deck circle to the box.

He timed me. Yeah. He's like, the elites, get it within a second. I got it within a second. He's like, you'll be surprised how many guys go through their entire visualization process and get it within like a second of when they open their eyes. Okay. And I carried that with me forever.

Whenever I was in a rut, I would go through my process. I remember jumping on Aaron Judge's back one time, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Did you do that? Absolutely. I was all the time about Ken and are you breathing, man? Are you breathing? That's right.

And he would jump on my back if I was struggling. Hey, man, I got to get on your back. You feel the weight of the world, get off your shoulder there. And it's like these little things that just make the biggest impact in lives. And you've certainly done that for me. You've certainly done that for me. I love you, too. So this is like, I'm so happy.

Look, this has been amazing. You've obviously impacted a lot and we're so thankful for how you've impacted this. It's been really fun for us and we've got all year to celebrate this. Any advice you would give Joe Madden from you talking a lot about minor league days to now you're no longer managing and all the crazy impact you've had in between. Like what advice would you give to our baseball people that are listening or fans and some of the stuff that's helped you out the most that we can. Yeah. I mean, we need one more nugget from you. Yeah.

I actually put it on a t-shirt once, and I think the word comes out to authenticity. I mean, everybody wants to be like everybody else. We have influencers everywhere right now. And of course, I had influencers too. No question. I'm white. I wear white shoes when I play football because name it did. Whatever, I wear a bigger face mask.

But at the end of the day, don't run away from who you are and what you believe in. and also know what you believe in too. I mean, it's not that you can't be, you can't make adaptations or be flexible. You have to be. But at the end of the day, just really know what you believe in and put it out there.

I think too many times people will attempt to say what they think somebody wants to hear. We've already kind of covered this. But put out there what you truly believe in. And I think the respect you get in return for that is greater than. Because even if the person you're speaking with doesn't agree with what you're saying, they'll probably listen to that and take it to heart.

And maybe you're going to make an impact in that authentic way. Because if you choose to not really be who you are or authentic, it's really difficult to copy or put that fake thing out there on a daily basis, which a lot of people do. It's easy for guys to pick up on. Exactly. It's very transparent, right? So I just think the word authenticity, never run away from it and and authenticity cannot be manufactured it's got to be organic yeah thank you home buddy good boys home thank you guys that is a rap that was great well done guys you guys you guys thank you buddy that's so much with all this buddy that's so glad you know i was i didn't know it's great stories you guys did a great yeah guys it's us and the jonas brothers i'm joe i'm kevin

and i'm nick and guess what we created our own podcast called hey jonas we invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it, but, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Oden,

to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an acapella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard,

you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.

since you guys are middle-aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. I'm Michelle McPhee, and I've been unraveling the strangest criminal alliance I've ever reported on. A Mormon polygamist and an Armenian businessman. Multi-million dollar house,

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets, a billion dollar fraud. But how long can this alliance last? Tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game.

This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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