The Herd with Colin Cowherd - The Richard Sherman Podcast - Pete Carroll on his Seahawks legacy, Super Bowl loss, rivalry with Patriots

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Richard Sherman interviews Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll. The two future Hall of Famers open up about their years together in Seattle, including their Super Bowl win against Peyton Manning's Broncos and their heartbreaking loss in SBXIX to the Patriots on the infamous Malcolm Butler interception. Richard asks Coach Carroll about his early years coaching with the 49ers and Patriots, and Pete shares a hilarious story about his first clash with Robert Kraft. Pete discusses his time at USC and how that storied run prepared him to return to the NFL with the Seahawks. The two reminisce over the beginnings of the Legion of Boom, its unceremonious end, and reveal how their relationship is today. #volume #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s.

84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reminder, every episode of this podcast premieres live on AMP. So download the app. Subscribe to me at Richard Sherman to tune in to all of our shows live. The volume.

Notice, sir. New balls for these yo! Super Bowl. Championship. That should always be the expectation. All right, man. That should go on here. All right.

All right, welcome back to the Richard Sherman podcast. We got my coach, one of my favorite people, Pete Carroll. I just want to say before we get started, I appreciate you. I appreciate the chapters of your journey that I participated in. You know, it's a small snippet of your 50 years of coaching. Pretty significant, though. But I thought it was a fun time, you know, from my high school recruiting to all the way, you know, to our last game here.

I wanted to say I appreciate you. Well, I appreciate you saying that. We had some great times and meaningful stuff that we've been through. We've been in this office sitting down, you and me talking one-on-one before. We had some issues over the years to make sure we ironed out. But we always did, and I'm really, really grateful. I mean, those golden years, you know, for me. Yeah.

And beautiful time. And so I particularly like celebrating it with you now in this kind of setting. It's great. It's the best. You know, we've had ups and downs. We've had good times, bad time, but I appreciate every moment of them. I think we had way more good than bad, but I think you've got to have bad to appreciate anything. Exactly. But you started off at UOP, you know, you played there.

We're going back. We're going back. I'm taking you back. But I'm like, we're not going to live there. We're just going to take you through. So tell me, just tell me how you developed your philosophy defensively, because you've been through a lot of head coaches. You coached under a lot of great head coaches. Where did you develop that? Yeah, the significant time about my background in defense really wasn't back that far because it was all a blur. We, you know, and we weren't great anything until I went to Arkansas with Monty Kippman. That was when it first clicked about system and philosophy and approach. He's the best coach I ever worked with and taught me so much and took me under his wing right from the beginning and we were back and forth different places for years.

We're closest to friends and that was the time. He was such a great ball coach that all of really the foundation of all of it started there. So you've coached, you made your way through, you made your way to the National Football League. You broke in. And your first inning league, as a head coach at least, tell me about that experience. And obviously it ended in New England. And, you know, they've had Belichick ever since. But just tell me what you learned through your first cent.

Well, I had always been a San Francisco guy. I always was a nine-year-old guy growing up. And so I always loved their football and tried to follow them and whenever I could. I wound up after the Jets going to San Francisco. And had two years there. great teams and we won a lot of play great defense there. And Coach Walsh had come back as a, as a consultant the second year. And all of the coaches that had been around them were still intimidated by him, you know, but I didn't know. And I just felt it was a great opportunity.

So I hung with him as much as I could, and he welcomed it because other coaches wouldn't come see him. He had a little office in the corner, you know. But that led to, the reason I bring it up, but that led to the opportunity going to New England. And I had had the opportunity to visit with Bill so much and ask so many questions. I felt like. I really was dug in to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the way and, and what they had done, expectations and the great leadership they had there in the day and all of that. Uh, the ownership was, we ran the program with a great philosophy.

So when I go to interview with New England, um, Robert Kraft hires me with the understanding that I'm going to bring the San Francisco philosophy. I'm jacked because, you know, I finally got there. And, uh, the, the, the, the quick story was, we, we did everything first class in San Francisco. I mean, top drawer, treated the players great, looked at. after them, took care of them. It was a clear philosophy that I was bringing. I was excited to unveil.

The first thing we get to, there's a, we're having a mini camp. And so I'm just checking out, you know, how the setup of it, how it's organized. And so I'm figuring into the menu for the players on that weekend, you know. And Kraft comes to me and says, well, you know, we're not going to feed them like that. You know, we get bologna sandwiches and chips and stuff like that.

And I went, and it hit me just as clear as the bell as I'm in deep trouble. I mean, if I can't even feed him the way I want to feed him, what's going to come in? I mean, I knew it. I had a moment, you know, oh, my goodness. So he didn't know what he was asking for, you know, at the time. We didn't cover the bologna sandwich stuff in the interviews. But anyway, that situation was from the start was a little challenging. So three years, we didn't do bad.

I'm still proud of 27, 21, and we went to playoffs two of the three years and all that kind of stuff. I remember that clearly. But that's when Bill got the job, you know, and he had been there. and there was stuff going on the whole time I was there. They had had really good teams before. Parcells, they went to the Super Bowl. I got hired after they lost the Super Bowl. So I went in there thinking I was going to kick ass on Bill Parcells.

What in the world was I thinking? He's like coach of the decade or something like that. I'm bringing here comes Pete all fired up. Anyway. But that's how that took place. And so that was a, it was, I wasn't even surprised because of the way I could see it unfolding. But I was pissed, you know, just, you know, me. I was pissed, you know, and I wanted to keep going.

And it's, you know, it's a big change when that happens. But for the better things came out of it. I hate to bring up old scars, but I just... That's okay. I expect that. I remember when we had them in 2012, when we had them, that was, you know, my second year. And you came in, you come in with energy to every single meeting. But that particular, the New England week, you came in with a different kind of energy. Oh, no.

I'll never forget it. Really? I'll never forget it. You were like... I'm supposed to be the same, damn. You're a hundred percent. It was just as tad. You would know.

But you came in with like something on your mind. Like you had to have this game. This was one you had to have. It meant something to you. And you made sure we understood it meant something. And it meant something to us because it meant something to you. Do you still feel that way now? You felt that way then, you know, obviously it's been a decade, over a decade since then.

But do you still feel some kind of energy towards the New England organization? Well, you know me, I never talk about rival reasons and stuff like that. I don't go there because I don't want to go there. But my past is still with me, you know, and I don't forget that stuff. I don't forget, that's not the only one. I kind of carry those things with me, you know, like it's just, it fuels me. Those kinds of moments, I don't, I find a way to put them someplace that's going to help me. And being pissed off or focused a little, whatever, those kinds of moments have been the ones that I work to avoid.

I don't want to go back to those kinds of situations, you know, and lose again or get beaten. and particularly in, you know, the fashions that you can go down sometimes. And so it's been part of, it's just part of the competitiveness. You know, I don't want to let it go and ignore it. I like that it's there. And it's kind of sticks in my craw. And it's okay. It's okay with me.

I like that. I need it. You know, I got a few things in my cross. I know we share that. That's the first time I've heard you say that, though. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't talk about that very much. Yeah, I don't need to.

I don't need to show it. Yeah. You do a great job of showing it. So then after that, you took a little break. Then you went to S. and you're still revered and loved and appreciated in LA for not even just the USC and all the success you guys had, but for the philanthropy, the caring, you went into some neighborhoods. I'm sure SC coaches of this decade haven't ever gone into.

You know, you went to the Jordan Down projects, the freaking, you went to places and you gave back. Tell me about that relationship and the relationship with SC and just that phase of your career. It was just a marvelous time. It was such a rich time because we turned a great program into, you know, really, we were a powerhouse for a good run there. But it also, along with all of the win, I never will be able to experience that much win. In the NFL, you can't be that dominant, you know. Yeah, we were really good. But we went three years without losing a game, you know.

So, I mean, that's a long time, you know. And so, but it was really the opportunity to connect with that, with the whole city and the whole area that made it so. so extraordinary for me. And I've, I still miss being there. I still miss just driving, you know, figure o, and here I go, and seeing all the sites, because it meant so much and it was so powerful. And we really started to connect. We connected in a lot of areas, you know, whether it was, you know, Jordan Downs, Grape Streets, wherever we were, you know, so many, uh, watch, there were so many things that happened that were so powerful and fun and rich and, and, and we, law enforcement, and we went deep, you know, and so those times were, I just treasure them. It was

really hard to leave because I knew I would never be able to have the same influence that I had, you know, and it just kind of over years, you know, it just diminishes and you can't have the same impact. But we were having some real, there was some real stuff in there that was going on that was really meaningful and important. I think, I think your impact is still felt in L.A. and, you know, for what it's worth, I think kids still remember, you remembered in reverence. Like you remember. Wow. And, um, and there's, like I asked for. That's all you can ask for. It's, it's fantastic. But you, you, you changed philosophies when you got there. You know, you started to talk about this book called The Inner Game of Tennis.

Yeah. And just how your mindset had changed and how you approached it. And it was all about competing at that point. Can you tell me about that transition? Yeah, that occurrence, that happened in well before I left UOP when I was in graduate school there is when that first. So that was already deep in me. And that was about, it's about performance. You know, it's about being able to quiet your mind in the midst of all the chaos and how you can focus.

so that you can perform like you're capable. That was beautiful stuff that I picked up back then. But it took me time to figure out how to make sense of it. I was always the same guy. I've been coaching the same way. I got in trouble when my first year I was a GA at UOP with the head coach, you know, because I was having meetings where I was asking the players what they wanted to work on and stuff.

And, you know, I got my butt kicked from my head coach for being on that kind of a level of communication. But I haven't lost that part of it. But it was later that it was after the New England time. when we were still in New England. I sat out that year after that, and it was during the preparation for the next job season that was coming up. And I started to get really antsy.

You know, I've been out a year. I was trying to figure out how to do what you're doing or whatever, and it made no sense to me at all. I was totally fish out of water. And so as the coaching season came back, I got jacked up because I didn't need to get competitive again. And in that time, that's when something really clicked. And that's when I realized, remember, there's a moment.

I'm going to share the moment. I'm reading Coach John Wooden's book, and I'm sitting in my desk, and I'm looking at it, the little blue book, and it says in the 16th year at UCLA, he won his first national championship. And I just, I slammed the book down. I thought, holy shit, it took him 16 years. Because once he won, he won like 10 of the next 11. He couldn't even beat the guy, you know? And what it just was so clear, it was an epiphany that he was so unique and so different. He had his own way of doing things, and people knew that.

but he found a way to connect with his players and make sense to them that could keep them on a level of achievement that, you know, unheralded. I mean, nobody's ever done any better than that. Anyway, so that moment, things started clicking for me. And I just started, I just dug in. And in the next two weeks, everything happened. All of the notebooks, all of the notes, all of the recollections, all of the putting things in order. I mean, like 80% of what I'm doing right now happened in those two weeks. Wow.

And the 20% was the most important, though. The 80% kicked my butt and got me going. And it was I had to get my act together. I had worked all that time. Even when I went to New England, when I thought I had my approach, I had Bill's approach, which I understood that's not going to work. It's got to come from me. So I got to get right to the center and the heart of who I am and what I'm all about

if I'm going to have a chance. And that was about competing. And so, you know, I really, one moment in that in those weeks, I said, God, I'm a competitor. And it felt so good to say that. And I thought back to the little kid, and ever since everything I've ever done, I've been battling. And if I could keep my approach connected to competing, I could always be on me. I could be true to it.

And I could be authentic and I could be real. And it would keep me in a vein that I hoped that would allow me to communicate really well with all the people that was dealing with. And that's where it all happened. And so, you know. You had an unbelievable run. Yeah. And to get that reinforcement coming out of that, it just made me stronger. not until I got here though

it was like four or five years maybe six years into it when stuff started to come together in a clearer fashion the inner game thing was always with me you guys don't even know I mean I was teaching you guys stuff the whole time from that source and I never even brought it up you know nobody ever knew it but it was just part of the philosophy

of helping guys generate the confidence that it takes to be totally trusting in who you are and what you are and bringing that to games one week after next and bring it to practice one day after next and learning how to focus in that kind of manner. And I just didn't have it all understood, but I was doing it. And since I've understood it, it's just become clearer in the messaging and the ability to connect and hopefully share with the guys and keep us on track.

So it's 13 years later now. Right. And you still won't. And it's the consistency that the philosophy allowed. And then it was eight or nine years at SC and then 13. So it's really kept me on track. And so it's helped me help others. And so it's been a freaking blast.

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A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the FDefiardt, the podcast. forth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you

behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because, of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Then you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah.

For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's been really cool to be a part of and really cool to watch. I was a kid when you were at SC and to see the success you have with Carson and Mike Williams and then Matt came and Reggie offensively. You guys had a lot of big time playmakers. You had Kevin Ellis on defense.

You had some really good players. All the live back with Keith Rivers. Troy Palomalo. To go all the way back. Yeah. A big monster. You coached all these great players. But then you get here.

and the roster wasn't quite what you wanted to be. I remember in 2010, I wasn't here, but I came the next year. And the first thing they told us was they did the most transactions in the history of the league last year trying to get this team right. Johnny and I were rolling them through. Trying to figure it out. Don't expect to be here long if you're not performing like they wanted you to do,

but give your best. And I remember having conversations with you just about, you know, getting recruited and we joked around about our time at SC and Stanford. and, you know, we're not even going to go back to Harbaugh and his nonsense and all that. I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we, come on now. I'm not trying to reopen those kinds of. I love Jim.

I love Jim now, but I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, everybody gets past things. You know, I have a hard time the most, but that's my flaw. But you get this really cool group of people together. You get, you get Russell when you drafted his school. Well, you start off with the 2010 class of Earl and O'Koon. Yeah.

I can't remember every single person in that class. Cam was in that class, obviously. But really foundational pieces. Then the next year you get KJ, myself, you get K.J., myself, you get Karp, Malcolm's on that, B. Max, Doug's in that class. Then next year you get Bruce and Bobby, who's still here. You get Russell. You built the foundation of the team. Tell me, when did it start to feel special?

Because this is your second sent in the league, and you're going all in with your philosophy. And it seems to be, you seem to have the right guys. Like, because I always felt when you were speaking and you were teaching that, like, I could feel the psychological aspect of it, but I also felt like you were right. Like, I felt like you gave us the best chance to, like, relax your mind, go out there, old school, roll the ball out and play. And so that really resonated with me. And I think it resonated with everybody else. And that's why we performed at our best. Did you feel that same way with the guys you got? With the guys I got now you're talking about? With, Ben. Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, there's no doubt. We were putting pieces together. The thing, you remember, this will ring true.

I'm always trying to find guys that are unique, guys that got something about them that makes them who they are, and then try to figure out a way to bring that into our team in their play, but also in their personality, and then see if we can't help people feel great about their role in all of this. And so that was a constant. So all of the guys you named everybody had something about them that made them something special.

unique. And whenever we could, it's why it was so important to get Marchand. When Marciane came out, I mean, I knew him through high school and then through the college thing. And then when he went to Buffalo and he got in trouble and all that. And he was just an important element because he was so, as we know him, is extraordinarily unique and an amazing person. And I wanted that guy on our team. I didn't know if he'd be any good. I just want him on our team. And so we were just putting a team together. The guys that you mentioned, everybody had a commonality about the competitiveness. That's what I was looking for. I wanted the guys that would compete their ass off no matter what that was really important

to them. Even when they were whacked about it, like you were at times, and Doug was at times. I mean, think about how crazy we got, you know. Earl was nuts. You got a few cycle paths. Yeah, I mean, it was, but it was great because there was a place for us, you know, like where Stanford wasn't really the place for you, you know, and it wasn't for Doug either, but here was.

And so I hoped that we could just keep finding. And then Russ came in and Russ was ready to, you know, Russ was a very, unique player and had his own way about stuff and his own approach and all that. And I didn't know any of you guys. I didn't know what was going to happen. But I wanted to go with you guys. You know, that I wanted to do it with you guys and the guys like that. And so Bruce, I mean, Bruce's story. I mean, shoot, nobody knows the whole story, but the story behind that, I want him on our team. And so we might have drafted a little higher than other people, but I didn't care because I wanted them on a club, you know. And so we built it around that the

personalities that could make us operate at a high level if we could just hang together. And then we might be special, you know, and it happened. And that's not even mentioning the big reds and playing him in the six. Bangor and the bangers. And, you know, Klam, you know, great part of this team. And he might have been at issue other places he was. Here he was right in where he should be, you know. And it felt like that.

I felt like guys were where they should be. And that was the foundation of this, you know, this program. I'd say one of the perfect players to embody that was BB and his time, because you guys put together a group, but you weren't always there. It goes right back to the running. He ran on the track at SC, and he ran terrible. You're in like 4-8 or something like that. Then he goes to Oregon State and kills it as a press corner.

He was great, and they had really good. They were coaching him well, and they played well. Totally lost track of him. And then somewhere in a workout down here, there's Brandon Browner? You mean the guy from, let me see what he can do. Because I had in my mind, this guy knows how to press. And we ran me, I think he ran 4, 6, 3. I thought, holy shit, that's fast enough.

That's fast enough for what he knows. Maybe, I remember saying that after that work, this guy may be one of the real parts of this program. Because he had a way about it. Well, you know, the rest of history, you know. Walter Thurman III. Same thing. One of the most unique and gifted corners that I've ever been around. Amazing athlete.

You guys, like, I will say, when you brought us in here, Brandon, the first day, maybe the second day, because remember, that was the lockout year, so we didn't have a minicamp, no OTAs, no anything. And Brandon was sitting at a tape by itself. He was really, you know, he's just, you know, he's been through a lot, he's kind of really protective, like, hey, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want nobody around me. I'm protecting.

Like, I'm going to make this team. I'm a killer. And, you know, I'm kind of a playful guy. So I'm like, what's up? Like, you're not going to sit by yourself when I'm here. Let's talk. And he told me, he was like, hey, you long, I'm long. They brought us here to put our hands on.

people. So from day one, put your goddamn hands on people every chance you get. You never told me that. I didn't know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's so much about like the players you guys brought together and I want to, I want to share that while we're in this interview. But your philosophy, I think the thing that made us the great at who we are is people made us terrible when when our hearts got broke. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because we're so obsessive. That was the coming pain that I had never experienced that. You know, I'd never lived through a generation of players. You know what I mean? I'd always bounced around all over the place, you know? And that

generation that you were part of was the first time, I mean, year eight or nine or whatever it was when we were here and we started and make some decisions. It was heartbreaking. You know how we feel about you. But, and I always said this, because I always said this when people would get to this point,

if somebody's got to tell you the really hard news, I'll do it. You know, I'll do it. And with the thought that, I think, if we true all the way along, and the hard stuff comes, it's going to come with feeling and meaning and emotion and all of that,

and eventually we'd get back and we'd be okay. But I don't know, I just wanted it. I want to take the hit on that one. You know, I'll take the hit because I hated it. I don't want to, but I would take the hit because I thought maybe we would wind up on the other end of it sitting here talking freaking, come on now, man.

That's the best way to do it. You're wise man. So we'll talk about good things for now because you had some really great players you coach. You coach Joey Browner, you know. So you coach some really great all-pros in San Francisco, Tim McDonald. You had Merd. Merd.

Merd. You had, who did you have at Corner? Eric Davis. You had an E.D. Yeah. What was it from? We got from the Rams on the last year. We were there.

I got a little, we had some real sorted guys. Right, right. In New England, you had Ty. You had, you had lawyer. Lawyer was playing his best ball. Yeah, Willie Clay. You had some really great guys. But when you got here, you had some known.

names, what we were considered, and they developed into a really great and formidable defense. Tell me about how proud you were of what you, you know, you and John and, you know, Gus and DQ and all you guys, Chris Norton. Kenney, yeah. Yeah, you guys created. And did you expect it to ever reach that point? You know, some people give us credit for being one of the best defenses to play the game.

I think the statistics kind of bear it out. The six-year running there that was phenomenal, you know. I took great pride in it because when it gets down to it, I'm not a whole lot different than you are. I'm not a whole lot different than, you know, any of our dudes that had the real chip on their shoulder because I have had that since I was a little kid, you know. And so in that, you know, we shared the experience together.

I really don't feel like I did it. I coached you guys to make you dead. I don't feel like that at all. I feel like we did this together and we did something that was really freaking cool. and we hung in there as long as we could. And then we had to, you know, changes had to come. That's the bad part of it, to change it. Why couldn't we just keep playing like that?

That's really how I wished it could have been, but that's just not the reality of it. So we had to live with it and try to come back from it. But anyway, it was a source of great pride. I was really proud coming from SC because we had had so much success there to just see what would happen in the league. What happens if you take care of people and you love them up and you look after them?

what would be the result, you know? Because I was so moved by what happened at USC. I'm never forgetting that. I'm not forget what happened. That's as big to me as anything I've ever been a part of. But to be able to go somewhere else and then dive in in the same fashion with the same commitment to it and then see the relationships happen, you know, you know our guys?

You guys are still living in town, you know? And it happened. And so I take great pride in that because it's become my life. life, you know. I mean, I just poured my life into it and it became something special. I think you should feel like you had more, like you're not giving yourself enough credit, you know, because everybody in this day and age wants to say, they were good because of him or he was good because of them. Like it sometimes is perfect symbiosis. Sometimes it's somebody unlocking something in a group of men that may not have been unlocked by anybody else and a group

of men unlocking something in somebody else that may not have been locked. Because you coached a stint before and you had all pro players. But, you know, But I think in our time here, in our six years, we had as many all pros combined as you had in your first stint with most of the guys you coached. Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, probably all those years together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know what those numbers are, but. But it was great football. And what I would say about your philosophy, we bought in in totality. Like, when you dive in, full face into anything, when whenever it shatters, it's going to shatter your spirit. You know what I mean? Otherwise, there's no reason to be bought. bought in. It's like falling in love. You fall all the way in love, you freaking, your heart gets, you're all in. And I think that's, was the best part of our team and the worst part

about some of us, because we bought so far in that it was like, wait, like, this, this is ending? Yeah, she never, she never, I felt the same way. I felt the same way. There was nothing we can do about it, though. We just had to just do it, you know, and so, but I, I may take more pride in the fact that we're back, you know, with all of our guys and, and, and we're connected because it was real. I mean, the experience was real. Yeah, there was some shit we had to go through, but it was real because it lasts. We outlasts them, is what it amounts to, you know. Tell me about the Super Bowl.

Because that had to me, I know you say your time at SC is the most special time to you, but that had to mean something. Oh, yeah. No, to come back to our community and bring that parade, Glenn and mine is like our favorite moment in our life, you know, to pour so much into it and then see it capture so many people in such a celebratory manner, you know, that was amazing. But to me, it was getting back.

It was going again. You don't know this, but when I went to New England, check this out. When I went to New England, my first meeting, I'm up in front of these guys. They just came off the Super Bowl. Parcells was their dude, and here comes Pete. I keep thinking, like, you know, they used to portray me with a surfboard and a glass of wine, you know, on the pictures and the characters and stuff like that. And then here's Bill with the pro-handled, you know, anyway.

So I asked him, one of the first questions I asked him, I said, how many guys think it was the greatest thing in the world to, you know, win the Super Bowl, raise your hand, and a bunch of guys raise your hand. And I said, how many of you think, really, the greatest thing is to come back and win it twice, raise your hand? And they didn't know what to do with that, you know. But that's always been in my mind. I mean, I don't even know where that came from. I don't have any idea where that was generated from. But that was to show that you can do it again, show that you're real, show that no matter what happens, you can still be you to the freaking moment, you know, to the moment.

Right. And, you know, you guys were so mad at me and so pissed. We're hurt. I wish, I wish I could feel it like the way I should feel it, but, you know, that play just happened. That play got called just happened. It wasn't like by design. It wasn't.

There was no foreshadowing, no intent, no agenda. That play just happened. And I'm going to just tell you again. You guys didn't, you guys, couldn't hear it for years.

But when we got down there, I think we had one, if I remember, we had one time out. And so as soon as we got there, I said one of these plays, we're going to have to throw it to get all four plays. Because I'm always in,

make sure that we have a chance to get all four shots. Right. You know, regardless of what the first, second, third play was, let's make sure that we get all of our shots. And so we were smart about that. So that was hurt over the, you know,

I said, you know, so one of these plays, we have to throw it. And so we run the first play. And I think, I think what happened is Bill, late, he sends in the goal. goal line team, you know, and we had already said it in 11. Right.

And so we're an 11 versus goal line. And so that went through the play callers. And that's what led them to throw it on that down. It had nothing to do with anything else. It was just, well, this may be our, if we got to throw it one of these downs, you know, which we've practiced it a million times. You know, we're in that situation. We've got to throw one of these downs, let's pick it out, which is the right, you know,

whatever, it'll fall into place so that we get all our chances. And so that's what happened. It wasn't by design. There was no agenda. There was none of that. It was just the way we had prepared. So I was rock solid on the philosophy of it. It just was the worst play that could ever happen, you know?

And it's just, you know, and the guy makes a play of a life, a play of a career for everybody's career, really. And it turned all of that so dark, so instantly. So then we, you know, if you remember my moment was, I've been down and I think, oh, shit, I got to take this, you know. And so I thought this is one of those moments that you prepare for. You've got to be the epitome of poise, handle it, deal with it, and own it. Because there's nothing you can say that's going to put it in any other place. It was just as catastrophic as any moment could be. And so the locker room, you know, all the other stuff.

But the thing was, and Doug said this to me not too long ago. Had we won that game, we'd won the next year. We didn't want again. Because we got back anyway. We went back to the playoffs anyway. Again, with all the crap, all the stuff. everybody's brain and heart and all that. It was incredible.

It was a great team, man. We were a great team. It just hurt. It was more hurt than anger. And anger comes out as hurt. You know, hurt comes out as anger sometimes. And because it just felt like Sean was like, you know, you know, obviously. I agree with you.

And I totally agree with you. And I did the whole time. It's just what happened. The philosophy is solid. The philosophy and what you're totally right. And that under those circumstances. But I would say this. In that time, you almost had a greater effect on the National Football League than any other coach.

I mean, even Belichick, because it was a contrast in styles. You were doing it your way. You were doing it a much more optimistic way. You're coaching an optimistic. And football is not an optimistic game. You know, you get in practice. You're going to get MFed. You're like, do it right.

Like you're not, and you wouldn't allow coaches to coach that way. You always have to have a positive outlook. You have to finish you with positivity. You have to encourage them and be encouraging, even in mistakes. and that was just a whole different way of being coached. And, you know, some people would, you know, back in the day, they'd be like, man, that's crazy. They're being soft.

But it worked so well that I think other teams started to adapt it. And they started to freaking draft corners that are super long and super tall. It didn't always work out. And they start running three, running the coverage, even though we ran it a little different than everybody else. And I even saw it in Gus's coaching style and DQ's coaching style. And even Sala, to this day, when I went to San Francisco.

And still, it's still part of the philosophy of it. A lot of the foundational. pieces, you've had such an influence on all these guys. How proud are you of that? Well, you know, I don't spend much time on that. I mean, I love my guys and that we worked with and we'll be just like we are. I am with those guys too that we worked with. And that's just kind of how it's been. But yeah, it's just ball. And so it's times change and things adapt and they address and all. But there's still, there's a heartline that goes through our guys that we all, I mean, when I talk to DQ, I talk to Gus, it's just like,

like they just walked down the hall. I mean, we're so connected. And so, you know, I'm proud of it and all that, but I don't know. I don't take much credit for that. Did the all-decade team? I know awards don't mean anything to you, but did that mean to you?

You were one of the best coaches in this decade when you came back. I don't even know what the word you're talking about. Well, you got the all-decade team. It's the AP. They do an all-decade team every year or every decade. That's cool. Well, I like that. And you were one of the coaches.

You and Beal. They've done it for every decade before, and it's always been a Hall of Fame coach, and you were one of the ones for this decade, and I thought you were one of the best coaches of this decade, so I think we had five guys on it, me, Bobby, you, Earl, and Marchand. That's a good group. Yeah, yes. That's a proud group. Yeah, it was a good group of guys.

But when does it end for you? I don't know. Look how much fun I'm at. I'm up in the time of my life right now. This team we're building right now is as fun as any team we've ever had, different, unique to themselves. We're going to find it. We haven't found it yet. We're going to find it, I think, because everybody's in.

Everybody's all in. They're listening. We're tuned in. We're having a blast. I mean, practice yesterday was just another celebration of stuff, you know. And so I don't know. I don't even know what to measure it against. Just keep rolling.

You know, John hanging with me and keep putting up with my crap. And, you know, and we'll just keep going. But right now, I don't even care about that thought, you know, like how long or whatever. I'm thrilled by the thought that this is year 13 or 12 or 14, whatever the heck it is, that we've been there. Because to me, it's never been about winning the one time. I mean, like, give you the illustration of the Super Bowl is how long can you keep winning? How long can you keep going? How long can you stay?

Because I've always, I used to say when they'd ask me, I said, I can't tell you how we're doing now. I'll look back a few years from now and I'll let you know. You know, because I want to look back and see what we were able to do. It goes all the way back to my first game. I was ever a head coach, we're playing in Buffalo, and the game's over, and I'm going out to kind of gloat. We've won the first game, you know, and I'm going out to kind of gloat and hang out, you know, the stadium and all the stuff.

And I look back on the wall, they had all their division championships, like, you know, a ton of them in a row of that. That's winning. That's where Win Forever thought came from. That was where that moment was where that thought came from. That's the real deal. It's not just once, you know, you show something and then you're out of here. That's why the pride that I took in, personal pride about getting back to the Super Bowl was such a big deal.

Because how many teams don't? You don't see or hear from again, you know. So that's, I don't know, it's wherever that two-year question I had, you know, or two-time question, I don't even know what that. Because this group is such a unique group. I think this is the best, most talented group you guys had in a long time. But, you know, when you've done something special and you were a part of such a special group, early on, you kind of, it's hard for the players to get out of the shadow of it, you know, and it's unfortunate, it's just times we live in, you know.

And I don't even want you to. I hate, I don't even want you to, you know, that's why we've got guys all over the place. Doug's been here, KJ, Cam, you know, guys keep coming back. I love when you guys are around, you know, it's not like, and I don't think of this, it's last yesteryear, I think if it's, it's an illustration of what you could become. It's motivation, inspiration for these guys to know that the connection was real and it stays on and it lasts and they could be part of that too if they they got to do everything they can to be part of it though you know that's been you know people look at it rich you know like it's

optimistic and they're having fun and all that they don't get it nobody get and i don't i feel we've been misunderstood for a long time i don't wish i don't really care about them ever understanding it but they don't get it you know this is about hard-ass hard ball kick-ass football and and if you ain't that way if you did that doesn't if it doesn't mean something to you and that deep, deep sense in your heart, then this isn't the right place for you. But yeah, we're going to have a good time doing it, though. We know how to do that,

but if it doesn't have that connection, that's what I'm trying to generate in this group right now, then we're not doing it. Do you know the other day, KJ said, and I'm interviewing you now, KJ was told that I made a comment about why we show highlights. Did you hear that? Why we show highlights every day in the meetings?

and I was telling Brock and Salk why. I said, well, I'm trying to show the players who their teammates are. And I want them to learn to know who they are. And they told that to KJKJ, KJ, no way. That's not why he was doing it. You know, KJ, like he didn't get it. I thought that was the funniest thing. Is that the craziest thing?

I always thought that is exactly why. That is exactly why. Because it gave you an answer. I never told you guys that, but that's why we do it, you know, because we're trying to learn who we are. That's where we are right now. We're learning who we are. And we're trying to figure out what does that mean? What is that going to stand for?

And what will be the standards of how we live up to that, you know? You used to, what I used to remember about those highlights is you knew exactly the kind of team we had. You knew exactly what to expect on game day from every player because you sit there and watch it every single day. So when it happened in the game, it's like, hey, Sharm caught a fade. It's like, well, Sherm catches his fades. Doug made a big play. Doug made somebody fall. Marshawn ran somebody over, stiff arm somebody.

Earl is all over the place. Cam's running through people. Like, you expect the stuff. Bobby's making great plays. KJ's carrying a special and making huge plays on receivers. Like you see it every day. You see the consistency of the work. And that's what I always appreciated because it gave you an immense appreciation.

You know, that's all Gus is, you know, having a genuine appreciation. But it did. In that, Rich, understand that what that is is getting to know yourself individually but also as a team. When you know who you are, then you're true to it and you own it, that's when you can hold your shit together. no matter what's going on around you, you can still be you. And that's how we can sustain and how we can come back faster and not lose four games in a row, whatever. You know, we keep coming back to us.

You know, that's Tell the Truth Monday and then competing on Wednesday we had to get back to us and forget what just happened and what's behind us. That authenticity is what gives you a chance to really bring about your best. Everybody knows, we trust, we understand, what's expected of you, what's expected of him. that gives you the best, I think, the best make it for sustaining excellence and so. This is, sorry, this is a random thing, but it's something I don't think you've ever noticed that you thought about. Because it's just our specific group, so I think about it because it's where the Legion of Boom died. It's where, you know, it's where I say it.

But Arizona Stadium is a house of horrors. So in Arizona Stadium, we lost the Super Bowl. I tore my Achilles. That was my last game as a Seahawk. Cam hurt his neck. That was his last game as a Seahawk. Earl broke his leg. Did we not talk about this?

I'm just saying. It's the only topic. I don't want to expound upon me. You may cut this out. It's the truth. Yeah. That's the truth. It hurt.

And then we got a tie in overtime. You got to be kidding me. A hundred plays. Yeah. I don't know what was wrong with that stadium. But my goodness, I hate it. I think we won a lot there, though. Yeah, we did.

We won a lot. We just, those games, just, the stuff that happened afterwards was just a dramatic. But I appreciate you taking time. Probably won't bother you again about this stuff. You know, I tried to make it not make it too controversial, but I appreciate your time in coaching and believing and drafting a lanky kid out of Stanford and believing he had a chance and not replacing me after my first start. That was a really big deal for me.

I don't know why you believed in me. I always wanted to ask you that. What made you keep starting me? I was like, why didn't y'all get a... I can't remember the collection of things that happened, but all of a sudden I'm looking at, we were banged up and hurt. So I pull out all of your one-on-ones.

I said, put them together, all is one-on-one. And I go through, this is your first camp. And I'm looking at them. Oh, jeez, man. You know, you were struggling. You were, you know, but let's go with them anyway. Let's go with it. I don't care.

I know I did my homework, and I was going to try to justify that why I was going to start you, you know, and I looked at the, oh, you should. And, and then it just, connected. It just connected to get you on the field and another guy on another side and away we go. And I believed in you, you know. You were the best third round pick that got picked in the fifth round that we ever made, you know. And and it, but it was your, you were just the right kind of

makeup for me to represent me in that sense, you know, and so I went with it and, and, uh, you just believed in it and thought it was going to work out and just, you know, I had coach, you don't know this, but you probably don't remember, Perry Williams was the first long guy that I ever coached. That was all the way back at NC State. Perry Williams became a, he played corner for the Giants for years. He was the stiffest, couldn't catch nothing, but he could run like the wind, and he was six to something with, he was like, you know, and it all started way back then. So I've always had that image of if I can get my guys, you know. Don't have to be that way, but that's, that's the image.

And you were just right in the mold of it. So I want to make it, see if we can make it. I felt like I lived by your philosophy and something you said, an interview a while ago, you always felt like something good was just about to happen. And I felt like our years, just about every time something good ended up happening. It was just around the corner. It was coming. You were exactly the illustration of that. It's been a great run. And we've had so much fun. And there's more and more to do for all of us. But I'm so proud of you, man. I appreciate that. You know, background coming from, overcoming. Stanford, no, draft, no. It didn't work out quite the way you

wanted to, but from all the stuff we did. And plus all the things that you, you worked your way through in your career that made you who you are sitting right in here in this office and talking through it, always the ability to get back to balance was what was so, I thought, so extraordinary about you. And people didn't understand you. You know, neither one of us has been very well understood. You know, so that's okay. As long as we have our places to go and for people to hang with, But it's just been, it's been a great joy. And I'm so fired up that you're doing good, cool stuff here and all. My, my won't mean as much, but I'm proud of you, too.

I'm proud of you continuing to persevere, continuing to build young man, enjoying the process, and you keep investing. And like Gino, Gino is a perfect example right now. I love the example. That is getting belief, a guy, he's getting return on your investment because you appreciate him. You showed him that, hey, you can do. this at a high level and I think you can and he's showing you he could and I'm just, it brought tears to my eyes when I saw it happening the whole year.

That's why I was freaking hyping him up every chance we got to talk about him on TV because I understood the philosophy. I understand what you stand for and what he's experienced and it was just so cool to see. Yeah, Geno's a real deal. Yeah, yes. As long as he remembers, it's all about the ball. So it's about the ball. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I appreciate you. The Volume. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends, me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Imagine an Olympics where doping is. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford. and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.