The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Tiger Woods, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and the NFL helmet rule

Episode Date: August 13, 2018

Filling in for Colin, Doug Gottlieb discusses why Tiger Woods really won over the weekend, why Cleveland Browns QB Baker Mayfield isn't the underdog, the New York Jets possibly starting QB Sam Darnold too soon, and why the new NFL helmet rule is a good thing. Guests include Greg Jennings, Holly Sonders, and Peter King. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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heard. Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be listening. However you may be making it be making as part of your day. What's that? Colin always says. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

In for Colin Cowherd all week alongside the lovely, talented and prepared. Joy Taylor, how are you, Joy? Morning. Wherever you may be, wherever you may be listening. I actually purposely... Can you purposely mess it up? Yeah. I just, sorry. Kind of do that sort of thing.

But that's okay. I like that you're actually listening enough. Were you watching yesterday afternoon? Tiger. Yes. I mean, he's back, right? No, no, that wasn't my question. He's not back.

By not answering the question, you're answering the question. No, I don't, I don't, when he's back is when I'm going to be watching, if I'm keeping it real. What do you mean when he's back? He got second? He was runner up. Did he win? Look, I would, listen, I'm going to credit a friend of mine, Kyle Porter, who works for CBS, CBSSports.com with this tweet.

Tiger Woods wins the 2018 PGA championship with a score of 14 under. Brooks Kepka finished his second with a score of 16 under. That's what happened yesterday. Yes, that's what it feels like. No, it's not what it feels like. That's what happened. It's a bummer for Kepka, for sure. Look, there's a certain shooter McGavin aspect to it, you know, from Happy Gilmore.

I was too busy winning the tournament to pay attention to what Happy was doing off the tea. Right. Right. And I do feel like maybe we should give. Which is a bit of an insult to Tiger. But Tiger won yesterday. Have perspective on this. Okay. Because whether it was the man who normally sits in this chair, many of the men and women who have sat in your chair or on that couch or all of the yackers on TV, the tweeters out there, many who profess to know and have forgotten more about golf, then we will ever know said he was done. What's he doing? He's a joke. He's finished. Give it up. Just go be a dad. Find another wife. Find another life. Move on because it is over. You're finished. And even as the comeback started to mount, the narrative was Saturday and Sunday.

Can't do it. But his scores actually progressively got better. He shot a 64 yesterday. and couldn't hit the fairway on the front nine. Like, that was a remarkable round of golf. Look, I don't geek out about golf. Do I play golf? Yes. Okay, am I good at golf? No, what's my handicap?

Golf generally is my handicap. But I can tell you that anyone with the, anyone with a brain can understand that if you don't hit a fairway on the front nine and you're still scoring well, you're doing something, There's a parallel to what Tiger Woods was able to do on the front nine to what he's been able to do with his life. His life was a mess. Listen, can we take into account the fact that he cheated on his wife multiple times, now ex-wife?

Yes, is that a factor sure. But there was also multiple knee operations. He tore his Achilles tendon. He's had four back surgeries, four. He went through multiple swing coaches to now where he's coaching himself. He had the chipping yips two years, what, a year ago, okay? A year and a half ago, he had a DUI. Hell, you go back to February.

He didn't make the cut at Riviera right down the road here. And he said he had to figure himself out. And people said, Tiger, we figured you out. It's over. And yet he owned Sunday. No, no, he did not raise the Wanamaker Trophy. He did not. He's going against, he's like the guy who creates monsters.

now having to fight these monsters. Brooks Kepka, who has taken Tagger's idea of athletes building their bodies up to drive a golf ball 340 yards and has done just that in using the fact that he's 28 years old. And Brooks Kepka had to play out of his mind to hold off Tiger Woods in which he started the day with a four-shot lead. What we saw yesterday didn't, Tiger Woods is never going to be back to what he was in his. his late 20s and early 30s. None of us who are in our 40s are ever going to be that guy, which is not.

But Tiger Woods owned golf, owned sports yesterday. Tiger completed the comeback and completed any sort of argument to whether or not he's the greatest golfer ever. Because you don't actually have to win a trophy to win the day. Think about this. The number of times Tiger Woods has had to score 10 under or better to win a major championship is 11. Jack Nicholas, of course,

owns the record for 18 major titles. Only twice. Tigers had to compete against tougher courses, better competition. Yes, he has better technology and his body is built up, but let's be honest. The idea that Tiger is not better than Jack

is kind of laughable, right? It's the same argument that Steve Kerr makes about athletes. Like, athletes now are going to be better than they were previously. They just are. Yesterday, he showed shot creativity, he continued to prove to us why he's the best iron player in the history of the game.

And though he did not make every putt, I mean, look, the real reason he lost or wasn't able to win was because Saturday he missed three, four, maybe even five, makeable putts. He missed a couple yesterday as well. But considering where he was to how he played and how he finished to turn a world of a world of people who made fun of the downfall into a world of supporters. I don't know how you would quantify whether or not he's back. I think he won yesterday. I think everybody feels that way.

And I think he cemented himself as the greatest golfer we have ever seen because he's having to overcome now an entirely new generation of players who only got into the sport because Tiger made it cool to get into the sport. and get into shape and be an athlete while playing the sport that has never been determined to be an athletic event. Eldrick Tiger Woods, who, look, there are many things that people say golfers have an upper hand on, right? It's a country club sport. It eliminates at least half, if not, probably three quarters of the potential athletes out there to compete against. But Tiger did not come with a silver spoon in his mouth.

And yet, at three years old, four years old, we were told he was going to. to be the next thing and he lived up to it. And then like so many, this is a tale as old as time, he succumbed to all the trappings of fame, all of it. Arrogance, stepping out on his marriage, the idea that he didn't want to, he didn't want to, you know, perform under the norms of the general golf population, right? cursing on a golf course, how he would react. You watch Tiger Woods and how he walked into the golf course yesterday.

That was a man who won the day. Hat on backwards. No, Colin would not approve of him being a franchise quarterback. Hat on backwards, sunglasses on, chest out, cardinal red shirt. He owns St. Louis. He saved a sport single-handedly. golf was going the way, frankly, of NASCAR, of being a sport to which, you know, in the 90s and early 2000s,

we were super into. And now we're like, eh, I understand how popular it is in different regions of the country and in different places, but it does feel like it jumped the shark a little bit. Tiger saved it yesterday. To the point where I don't know if you're like this, here's how good Tiger is. Here's how good TV was yesterday. Over 240 days until the Masters next year. That's a bummer, isn't it?

Right? Because you want it to be this next weekend or the weekend after that. Next year, you got the Masters, Beth Page Black and Pebble Beach. Those are the three majors played on our soil. Pebble where he won by 15 strokes, the Masters where he's, Masters where he could play blind. Matter of fact, after the car accident, after the breakdown, with Elyleyn, he still finished in fourth place, the very next Masters. And Beth Page Black, which is just outside of New York City, which of course will be like a home game.

There are so many parts of this story, which are so incredible. The idea that we went from being a polarizing guy that many people in the sport disliked and people out of the sport had disdain for to where you almost, I almost found myself rooting against Bruce, Brooks Kepka, right? He gets up there on 17, a par five, which you know he's going to be on the green and two, and you're thinking, just hit it in the woods.

Hit a fan, put it in the drink. You almost wish that he snapped his club on his back swing. Tell me, I'm lying. Well, you were suddenly rooting it, and there's nothing wrong with Bruce Kebkeh, whatever his name is, whoever raised a Wannemaker trophy. I know who Brooks Kepka is.

He's won three majors. of the last six that he's been in, seven overall. He's won three out of seven, three of the last six that he's been in. And yet, most of America, if not all of America, was suddenly turning against our own just because of Tiger Woods. Changing our view of a sport, coming back from something that most thought you could never come back from. performing better on a Sunday than he had on a Saturday,

better than he had on Thursday, better than on Friday. To me, Tiger Woods put himself down as, I'm the best that's ever done it. He appeared humble. He appeared gracious. He appeared to understand the gravity of the comeback. And whether or not you think that's real or fake,

don't tell me you weren't in yesterday. You don't think Tiger's back, Joy? I think, I would argue the golf won yesterday more than Tiger. He didn't literally win, and it feels like he won, right? Yes. So the ratings were up 69% from last year. Yes. Rob Grankowski's favorite rise in golf ratings ever.

Frank's favorite rating, yes. They did an 8.3 on Sunday. So golf won yesterday. But I would argue that this is more of a moral victory. And in order for this to be sustainable, say, Tiger's back and Tigers winning again, he's going to have to actually win, which I'm very much rooting for. I've never been out on Tiger from the very beginning of everything.

I despise the turning that we do on not only just athletes, just anyone who has any sort of... This is kind of what we do, right? We build you up to tear you down. And then we root for the combat. You didn't actually have to tear them down in the first place. Well, listen, this is a deeper dive that I want to get into. Sure.

But the point is, I've never been against Tiger coming back or being great. I think the whole entire sports world needs Tiger to be great, not just golf. But I think actual winning has to happen before that's the case. I do think that there are some people. And look, there are some things about him to which, I don't know if it deserved to be torn down, but we all deserve to be humbled on some level, right? To understand our mortality as human beings, there's a way to treat people. And it's not just him.

There are others that have seen. But I actually believe his comeback is real. Like there's something to the fact that when he takes off that. hat, you can see he's balding underneath. That as much as he's still an athlete, there's still a little bit of a 40-year-old pouch there. It's this, like, I actually, I like that. It's a human desire to see some sort of relatable characteristic in people that are so much greater than us at one, at any particular thing, right? Like, he's so far above and beyond, not even just as a golfer in general, but just as a

figure and as a legend that once we start to see some mortality, that's what, that's what it is. That's what why people tore him down. oh, you're not really as great as you say you are. I'm not using that to tear him down. I'm using that to, I actually think that elevates him. I actually, I think that the scars that we have, like I'm an anti-Botox guy, right? Like, I'm an anti-hair replacement guy. Like, the scars that you have from your life are what make you, are that what make you special

as a human being. And all of this other stuff, the winning by 15 at Pebble and all of the early success, the death of his dead, the downfall is... That makes his story unique. It's an incredible journey. And to me, I see... When I see a guy who's from the same area of the country, a same exact part of the country I'm from,

at the exact same age I am, and when I see him get back to the level that so many said he would never get back to, like, I find myself rooting even more for it when I see him take off his hat and go like, yeah, the dude, he doesn't have all his hair. Guess what? Most of us don't. Because you know what he's overcome to get there.

Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. More on that to come. You can hit us up on Twitter. I'm at Gottlieb Show. Joy, what's, what's, you have a, do you have an underscore your? Joy Taylor talks.

Joy Taylor talks. No underscores. Joy Taylor talks. I mean, somebody took Joy Taylor from you. We need to find who that person is. Coming up next, we've, we've now seen every young quarterback so far in this preseason. And there's one elite prospect, one rookie quarterback that I am really, really worried about. I tell you that.

that is next. Get rid of your heat-trapping mattress and get a Casper mattress. You'll sleep as cool as the other side of the pillow every night. Try yours for 100 nights. Risk free. Go to casper.com. Use the code Hurd. H-E-R-D for $50 towards the purchase of your mattress. Terms and conditions do apply. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin alongside the talented Joy Taylor. We'll hear from her in a second. Greg Jennings, former NFL wide receiver. NFL analyst on Fox. We'll join us upcoming in just about 10 minutes. And I'll ask Greg about these young questions. quarterback's, the rookie quarterbacks, that are coming in and, for the most part, tearing up preseason. But there's one that I'm very, very concerned about. And it's actually a guy who

could have gone number one overall based upon his readiness to play and looking the part. It's Josh Rosen. Baker Mayfield tore it up in his debut. So too did Sam Donald. And there was some good, there was some bad with Josh Rosen. He was hit a bunch. He was sacked a little bit. He was knocked around by one of the elite past Russian groups in the National Football League with the LA Chargers. The Chargers ran, and this is kind of amazing to me,

the Chargers ran 77 plays. The Arizona Cardinals ran 49. Now, look, the Chargers had 15 penalties. You can get into what it means. but if you watch the football game, if you watch Josh Rosen drop back under duress, you will understand that it wasn't just that he was playing behind a backup offensive line.

Arizona Cardinals lost their starting center AQ Shipley for the year. Their backup center couldn't complete a shotgun snap at times. They were a mess. The questions with Rosen coming into the year were twofold. One, about his ability to lead, command a huddle, get the respect of people, because sometimes, oftentimes he comes across as arrogant. But the other part to the story is Josh Rosen has not made it through an entire college football season healthy.

Not one. He had a shoulder procedure done going back a year and a half ago, two years ago, and he had one that stopped him from playing tennis as a high school kid. He's a guy who holds on the ball. He's a guy who takes some sacks. He's a guy who is seen as fragile and potentially somebody who's more likely to get hurt, than the the thick-chested, big-boned, Sam Donald, or even the smaller yet elusive Baker Mayfield.

Sam Donald, excuse me, Josh Rosen had a big knock against him that wasn't just his personality. It was whether or not he had durability. Put him behind that Arizona Cardinal line. And you may say to yourself, well, they got Sam Donald. I mean, they got, he keeps throwing them to me. They got Sam Bradford.

Look, I love Sam Bradford. I'm one of the few who thinks Sam Bradford is, in fact, a top 15 quarterback when healthy, but you always got to put that when healthy. San Bradford played arguably the best regular season game of his life last year, first game of the season with the Minnesota Vikings. No one even saw him get hurt, and he was essentially hurt the rest of the year for the Vikings. That's what happened. So, yeah, they're paying San Bradford $20 million and he'll be the starter,

but at some point they're going to turn to Rosen. And even though they have David Johnson, even though they have Larry Fitzgerald, even though they have some talented other pieces, if you can't protect a quarterback, he's bound to disappoint. If you can't protect Josh Rosen, he's not athletic, he's not elusive,

and he is a little bit fragile. I'm really concerned about how quickly they put him in and about the line that they're going to use to protect him. I'll ask Greg Jennings about that in a moment. Let's get to Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line.

So you remember how Belichick, Brady, and Bob Kraft had a meeting in the off-season to go over their issues? Airing of grievances? Yes, if you will. Well, Adam Schaefter recently appeared on the Kirk and Callahan show and shared further details on that meeting. Everybody sat down after the year. They talked for hours. They tried to figure out what works.

You talk about Tom's number of throws being reduced. Maybe that was part of the conversation. Maybe Alex Guerrero was part of. the conversation, Kraft, Belichick, Brady, just sat down to see how they could move forward into the future and do things the best way. I don't know how productive this meeting was, but this season for the Patriots is very interesting for me coming off of that Super Bowl, particularly because you really saw the cracks in that organization for the first time, maybe ever.

Like, the way that Brady and Belichick interacted after the season was over, the way that Brady's been out in the open, Tom versus Time. Everything about the Patriot way is so uncharacteristic now, just the way that they're all kind of acting and talking about what happens. Belichick obviously is not talking about what happened with Malcolm Butler, but this particular season to me is very interesting with the Patriots. It is and it isn't to me. I think it is early on because I don't know about the level of talent he's going to have at wide receiver. Right. But I do think that adding Sony and Michelle, now you have two dynamic running backs back there.

You have Rob Grunkowski. You kind of figured out. And the thing they have going for them is the jet's going to beat him. The bill's going to beat him. Well, yeah, that's the dolphin's going to beat them. That's kind of always the thing. Okay, so they're going to be in the playoffs. So, well, you know, like, look, last year they lacked dynamic.

But getting to the playoffs is not what the Patriots aspired to. They got to the Super Bowl with a very, with an average, with a below average defense, with a defense without playmakers. And oh, yeah, by the way, they turned it into a track meet. Smartly, so they turned into track meet. And Tom Brady had the ball. Down five with a chance to win the game. Like we can say whatever we want about not playing Malcolm Butler,

but Tom Brady's kind of getting the LeBron James treatment a little bit here, where he's completely avoiding blame when he had a running back out in the flat. He tries to force to Rob Gruncowski, holds on the ball too long, fumbles it. So do I think it's interesting? Yes, I think a lot like the Spurs. Organizations we learn nothing about and suddenly they start talking. It makes it far more interesting than normally it would. But at the end of the day, they're a playoff team.

they'll get Julian Edelman back they'll win the division and then we'll find out if they have enough playmakers defensively if Rob Grankowski can stay healthy and they can figure it out, I'm betting on the fact that a little bit of chaos is generally good to shake things up 18 years into that It has become like sacrilegious to criticize

Tom Brady, right? A little bit. The whole, all the blame gets put on Belichick and the Malcolm Butler move. I mean like look if you go back two years ago when they beat the Falcons to come back 28 to 3. He was awful, awful in the first two and a half quarters.

Oh yeah, everyone was saying it was done. Yes. Now look, he was great to lead them on a comeback. And it was helped by the fact that Atlanta just run the football and kick a field goal, you win the game, right? It doesn't matter how you start. It matters how you finish. I completely understand.

Okay. Again, except if you're LeBron James to which, if you play well in the first three quarters, we give you more. Anyway. But, but Tom Brady has been absolved of, because of so many of successes, I had an interview and people can listen to it at foxportsradio.com with Philip Rivers. And he said, look, I think Tom Brady is incredible. But he was watching the Super Bowl between the Seahawks and the Patriots. And Tom Brady's in the sideline, Malcolm

Butler makes the interception. When Malcolm Butler makes the interception, I think it was Al Michael says, you know, Tom Brady's going to go down now as the grit can go, the greatest quarterback ever. Like, Tom Brady did lead them on a touchdown drive in order to take the lead. But he didn't do anything to get the interception, right? I mean, that's quarterback bias. That's how it goes. I understand, but that kind of goes hand in hand with the, look, he was,

he had the football in his hands, down five points. He didn't have Brandon Cooks because he was out with the concussion. He did have gronk and he did fumble. Like this, all these things did happen. So I don't absolve anybody from blame. I don't absolve Malcolm Butler from blame. He clearly

did something that ticked his coach off to that point. We'll find out about that. So things have been pretty tense between Calvin Benjamin and Cam Newton obviously Calvin blasted Cam for his lack of accuracy and ability to help develop his wide outs and there was the video that surfaced of Cam confronting him before their preseason game

well now it appears Calvin has taken another subtle shot that's the video of them before the game he posted a bit Calvin posted a video of one of his catches on Instagram and praised Nathan Peterman in the comments he wrote that boy Nate Peterman with the accuracy

and he used an arrow hitting a bull's eye emoji to demonstrate Peterman's fine touch. So, Nathan Peterman, huh? Now, I love him. Is that the hill you're going to die on the Nathan Peterman Hill? Apparently so. The guy who had five picks against the Chargers

in this one start last year? Right. Is that the hill, Kelvin? You're going to go down? 14 attempts. I love a little petty war, but that's that round goes to Cam for sure without even him.

He should never respond to that. Well, look, he is actually correct. in terms of accuracy, in terms of the things that Cam Newton does lack. What was missing is there was never any pointing towards himself. Hey, look, I had issues with my weight. Right. And frankly, they went to the Super Bowl after I got hurt.

Like all these things, I don't have any problem with him saying, look, if I was in a better situation, I might have had a better start to my career because Cam is inaccurate. Cam, this is the same stuff that Steve Smith said when he left the Carolina Panthers. And by the way, they went to the Super Bowl after Steve Smith left the Carolina Panthers.

So those guys aren't wrong. I think that the issue I would have with Kelvin Benjamin was, one, there was never any pointing at, hey, there's some stuff I could have done better when I first got to league. And two, when Cam confronts you, look, dude, I said what I said, you know, sorry if it hurt your kids. Oh, yeah, I don't, I'm completely on Cam's side on this. Even if what Calvin said is true that Cam's not the most accurate, you can't, like

you said, go out there and just accuse him of it being your fault that you're not great. That's, I mean, that's kind of why you're not great. You don't have any self-awareness. And then to then to just not respond when Cam confronts you, which Cam did the right thing in that spot. I have no problem with him doing that. You're going to call me out publicly, but then not speak to my face. I mean, that's ridiculous. He did kind of big boy him, right? He did kind of go up and big boy him chest to chest. Well, I mean, you're a big talk. Be a big boy then. You can't go out publicly saying that you're not great because I'm not great and then I confront you and you have nothing to say. Listen, and again, again,

Greg will join us and he'll, he's an actual wide receiver. And obviously, we think we know, but he knows even better. I remember Eddie Royal left the Denver Broncos. Broncos beat the Steelers, remember, in the playoffs. Tim Tebow's are quarterback left. The Broncos to go to the Chargers. And you ask anybody like, why would you leave the Broncos? You meant to the playoffs to go to the Chargers.

And the answer was like, dude, Philip Rivers. Right. Philip Rivers is going to help me get my numbers. I get numbers. I get paid. Everyone knows in sports. That's the way we generally think it works. And that's really what Kelvin Benjamin is saying.

Look, it's not just that he's inaccurate, but he's never going to play in the type of offense to which a guy is going to throw it around 40, 50 times a game. That's not who Cam is. Five picks is not going to get you paid either. So finally, the Jags have suspended cornerback Jaylon Ramsey and defensive end, Dante Fowler, for one week for violating team rules and conduct on becoming of a Jaggs football player. Neither player will be available to practice this week or to play in the Jaggs next game against the Vikings on Saturday. This happened after a beat reporter recorded a fight that broke out at Jaguar's practice on Sunday. Sunday and Ramsey responded to the reporter with this tweet. You know you're done messed up, right? L.O.L. If y'all want war, we got some for y'all. And I know the rest of y'all,

you know who you are going to read this too. So just no. Hashtag lame-ass reporters. And then Ramsey responded after that and saying, I'm always going to take up for my teammates because I know what type of men and players they are. Love my dogs. If you don't like it, oh well, God bless prayer hands emoji. So he's suspended. I don't really believe that this is just about the fight, though. There's fights in training camp. Correct. All the time. All the time. I don't really know why he was reacting. He was probably just excited from the fight that he was reacting that people were recording it because of course people are recording it. Not only are just the reporters on the sideline recording

it. There's cameras at camp. They record everything for content. So what is the problem? I don't know. I mean, like, look, I can hypothesize a couple things. Maybe one, they told him not to tweet about it and that's why he got suspended. Maybe. Or maybe he's actually going to be a source for this guy and so this throws people off the off the trail, right? Like you tweet about a guy like, oh, he hates that reporter. And then you become a, whatever it is, I do think it's interesting. Suspending a guy from training camp is kind of like telling your kid like, you can't do homework for one week. Yeah.

Okay. It does. Like, okay, you're not going to play this meaningless game. Right. And you're not going to practice. I get that. The punishment seems kind of like, why does that even matter? But it is something that they suspended him. It is something. that they suspended him. I also think it's one of those things to which if we just take it at face value, which you and I think struggle to take it on face value. But if we do, I do think that on some level, players need to understand that the media is there generally to help them to get their stories out, to have us learn about what's going on because we're

reading about them. It creates a relationship with the reader, with the viewer, with the listener, and that makes us want to pay attention. The media doesn't work for the team. Correct. So. I don't know what the big deal is about a, training camp fight. There is no big deal about it. They happen all the time. I agree. That's Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Everyone is already complaining about the new helmet and tackling rule, but I actually

think it's, well, it's perfect. It's perfect. Not that it's not changeable, but that it's flexible, but it's perfect. Greg Jennings will join us upcoming next to You've got such a rule. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. August 23rd on Fox is the number one draft pick, Baker Mayfield, taking on the defending Super Bowl champion Eagles in a preseason shootout.

Eagles Browns, August 23rd at 8 Eastern on Fox, or stream all the action live on the Fox Sports app. Welcome into the herd. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin when shopping for car insurance. consider this. Geico has been saving people money on car insurance for 75 years. So if you're serious about savings, it's simple. Go to geico.com. After 75 years, they know how to save you money.

Let's talk about some of these young quarterbacks and our reaction and overreaction to week one of the preseason being in the bank. Greg Jennings, of course, an analyst for the NFL on Fox and Fox Sports 1, 10 season in the NFL, Super Bowl champion, two-time Pro Bowler, all around good dude.

Before we get to football, how much golf did you watch this weekend? A lot. Yeah. A lot. I found myself watching an uncomfortable amount of football and golf this weekend. Like, man, I just, where did the time go? I just watched a lot of both. Yeah.

It was fun. It was a good, interesting, filled sports weekend with football being back in the fold. And obviously, Tiger, what he was doing, he just glues you to every set that it doesn't matter where you are. I was in a restaurant and they didn't have it up right away. I mean, he wasn't even teeing off yet, but I'm like, I got my phone on the table, and I'm like, are you guys going to put it up? I don't understand these people who are so completely,

who run restaurants who are completely unaware. My high school coach and two of my close friends, I was with a buddy mine Spiro Detus who called the Charger Game, and we're having lunch, and then my other buddies are up at BJs, which is, you know, it's got all these TVs and whatever. and I was like, I'll shoot up there. Do you guys have golf on?

He's like, no, should we tell him to put it? I was like, yeah. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm driving. I got it on my phone. I'm driving. Keep in tapping on. Greg Jennings joins us.

Is there a most impressive of this young quarterback class one week of the preseason in the bank? Most impressive? Yep. I would say Baker Mayfield. For me, I think. When I look at Baker Mayfield, he's in the best situation. He has the best talent around him, receivers, offensive line, group of running backs, and a quarterback that he's probably going to sit behind.

Who knows for how long. I look at Josh Rosen in his situation being behind Sam Bradford. He's going to play. They have poor offensive line play. And I don't like to speak someone getting hurt. I don't want to see Sam Bradford being hurt. Listen, I actually like Sam Bradford. People hold it against him and he got $50 million guaranteed out of college.

Like, look, dude, that was just the game at the time. That's not his fault. Right. But it's not a question of if it's a question of when Sam Bradford is too banged up to play. Correct? He's fragile. He's not mobile. So if you have poor offensive line play, you have a quarterback who's not mobile,

who has a history of being injured. The likelihood of Josh Rosen playing very high. Right. I do, however, I don't like... He's got better skill position guys around him than the Browns do, dude. He's got David Johnson. He's got Larry Fitzgerald. So that's two.

Right. That's two. I'm saying complete, Baker Mayfield has a better situation. Josh Rosen has Larry Fitzgerald, who's obviously first ballot Hall of Famer. And then you have the best running back out of all the young quarterbacks that you could possibly have and a David Johnson. But how effective will their running game be? Sure. Because their offensive line is their play is poor.

So, I mean, yeah, you have a safety net there. Sam Bradford, I'm sorry, Sam Darnold. Yep. I feel for the guy because, I mean, I don't know anyone on the Jets roster. I mean, I in the position that I should know someone at... You're probably going to be doing a Jets game later this year for Fox too. I know you're doing games this year. I'm like, man, I got a bone up a little bit.

I should kind of know that. And I think that his situation, him being behind Josh McCown, he's going to eventually play, I believe, as well. I just think that Baker Mayfield is in the best situation. He showed us a little bit. And he was already in an exciting situation. but he has nothing to His

his threshold, his floor is in the basement. They won zero games. So Baker Mayfield, whatever he does is a success. I saw this online today. We're getting ready. We're in our meeting and Ryan Music, who's my producer

on the Doug Gottlieb show, which follows this show on Fox Sports Radio, 12 to 3 Pacific, 3 to 6 Eastern Time. He pointed out to me, he's like, hey, have you seen this line that Vegas now ranks the Packers, one of your former teams, the Packers, as the favorite to land Khalil Mack before the season is up. And I was like, wow. And it's one of those things to which, wait, we double-checked it,

we triple-checked it, and it is in fact. So how would, how does this work that we went from John Gruden, not having conversation with Khalil Mack, Khalil Mack not playing the first preseason game, to Vegas believing there's a better chance that he plays for the Packers this year, then he plays for the Raiders. When I first heard it, I was kind of like you, like what? But then the more I sit back and I analyze everything, you got Reggie McKenzie who was

former Packer guy at the general manager position out in Oakland. If they can't get something done, you're looking at a Green Bay Packer team that obviously needs a pass rusher. I mean, they use Clay Matthews everywhere. Nick Perry is kind of he's healthy one minute. He injured the necks. They need a pass rusher that can put pressure on the quarterback every single down. And Khalil Mack obviously gives you that. The likelihood of it happening, I don't know that. But I could see where the talk has kind of been created because of the relationships there and the inquiring of, hey, what's going on with Khalil Mack? the Packers front office to the Oakland Raiders front office because they do have relations. I mean, Jordy just went from the Green Bay Packers to the Oakland Raiders. So, I mean, general managers, they talk, especially when they come from a winning organization

or a familiar place that has had success. And we pretty much like to draft similar guys. I could see that being why they would be tops the list. But, Calil, don't, you can't get rid of Khalil Mack. What team will Khalil Mack be on at the end of October? This is from Od Shark. Packers at plus 300. Raiders at plus 400.

And the Jets, of course, have a ton of cast base at plus 700. Bills at plus 700. So are the Redskins as well. Let me ask you about the helmet rule, the new helmet rule. Again, we're only one week in, all these preseason games with plus the Hall of Fame game. What's your reaction to how it's being used? I get what the league is. trying to do, I don't per se care for the new helmet rule. And again, I understand the safety

reasons why. But when I look at a guy leading with the helmet, you tell me a guy that can make a tackle and throw their shoulder and their head doesn't go with it. Like, it's going to happen. And when we were at the seminar for Fox, we had the refs come in and they were telling us about this new rule and how it was going to impact and affect the game. And I just don't see it being clear across the board. Called consistently, I think that is where the problem will arise. Because you're talking about they're going to call,

or they're supposed to call any contact with the crown of the head Whether you're an offensive guy or a defensive guy, that is now a penalty. Okay, but listen, I could play this. Hold on the offensive linemen. They cut block. You got running backs who cut block. I understand that right now it's like when they took hand-checking out of the NBA. Early on, it was a complete disaster.

Everybody complained about it. And then slowly but surely they figured it out. They don't want another Ryan Chazier. That's what we don't want. We don't want one of our star players being carted off the field and now walking on crutches not being able to walk or run fluidly. We don't want that. So I understand that right now it's a shock to the system, that it's going to screw up a drive, it's going to screw up a game. Hell, it may screw up the season.

But the risk in staying with the status quo is the status quo. And Ryan Chazir was basically paralyzed and he's recovering from it based on lowering his helmet and using the crown, using the crown, using the crown of his helmet to make a tackle last year on a Thursday night. And I think that's what the league is reacting, maybe overreacting to, but it's a good thing to overreact to. Yeah, I mean, I don't, again, I would never say that they're overreacting because it's a safety issue. And we've seen, it doesn't matter any rule that that's been put into place.

When it's regarding safety, it has never been rescinded. It's never, you've never gone back and said, okay, we're going to put a seatbelt in the car. and now that the cars are made better and more... We're going to take the seatbelt thing out? We're going to take... That just doesn't happen. Yes, but the point is when the seatbelt law first came into existence, there are people like, well, what happens when you're submerged?

When you, like, okay, well, if you go off a bridge and you don't have a seatbelt on, you're not going to be in the car to be submerged. So, look, I agree with you that they're never going to take it away, but I do think they're going to adjust some of how they look at this rule. It's going to be fascinating to see. Greg, can't wait to see you on Speak for Yourself. Absolutely. I'll be co-hosting that with Jason.

and McIntyre. That's upcoming later on on on FS1. Coming up next, the only thing people love more than watching a total disaster is a comeback from that disaster. We witness one over the weekend. We'll discuss it next. I'm Doug Gottlie along with Joy Taylor. This is the herd. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. I'm Doug Gottlie. In for Colin Cowherd.

Joy Taylor alongside. Man, do we have a great show for you. Holly Saunders, FS1 golf analysts, going to join us about half past the hour. Peter King next hour here. in the hurt. A lot to get to. But I think the story or the name that everyone is talking about

is Tiger. You simply say Tiger and no one even thinks about that, was it the Jaguar that got loose in New Orleans? Was it a week or two weeks ago? Man, that Jaguar was a stud, right? Got loose in New Orleans, took out some alpaca, some other stuff sitting there going still got it. When you say Tiger now, nobody thinks of even the animal.

They only think of Eldrick. Tiger Woods or Tiger. And I find it fascinating how how stories kind of evolved. You look at Tiger and there are there's some Kobe to it. Right. Think about Kobe Bryant. Born in Italy,

dad, a pro, comes over high school phenom, drafted Jerry West draft a trade for him. He and Shaq team up. They search around trying to find the right coach, they finally get Phil Jackson, they win a couple of titles. But then as he wins, with all that success comes the arrogance, the trappings of fame, whatever happened in Colorado.

Then the fallout was Shaq, the breakup, the team suffers. He wants to be traded to Chicago. He wants to, he wants out of L.A. People forget all of that. And then somehow then there's the comeback and the two additional titles. So much so that he is a beloved, not just beloved, iconic member of the Lakers, so much so that some people are having a tough time going from Team Kobe to Team LeBron, right? Scores 60 points in a meaningless game, but because it's Kobe and he does Mamba out,

you're like, that's one of the greatest moments I've ever seen. There's something about the comeback which draws us in, even if it's your own reason that you had, your own fault that you had to have a comeback. Like, that's the crazy part to it. Tiger's downfall. can be blamed mostly on Tiger Woods. There's not outside factors there.

Sure, he hurt his knee. Sure, he hurt his Achilles tendon, but most people believe it's because he wasn't training properly because of the way his swing had evolved. He's doing Navy SEAL training to be a golfer because he wanted to play Army Kid. Games that most of us played when we were seven or eight, he was trying to play in his late 20s

because there's some sort of arrested development going on there. And even the stuff that happened at home of his wife, those are self-inflicted wounds. But the comeback from the self-inflicted wound is just as something we can share. Because who hasn't done that to themselves? It doesn't hurt any less when you stub your own toe. Like, man, you ever do that? My wife has the unbelievable ability to constantly stub her toe.

If there's a sharp corner in a home that we have owned, she runs into it. and then you did it to yourself and it actually seems to hurt worse. Like if your kid drops something on your toe, you're like, you know what? It's your child. If it's a friend, they're apologetic. You do it to yourself. You have nobody but yourself to blame. And then you sit there at night thinking of all the things that you did wrong.

But I think it's the perspective that's gained when you're at the bottom to them when you're at the top it makes it feel so much more refreshing. Take a listen to Tiger. This is yesterday. He finished with the 64. He didn't win the tournament, but he won the day. By my estimation, he won the year in golf. Here's Tiger.

Oh, God, I didn't know if I was going to play golf again. So, yeah. And so at the beginning of the year, if you just said, yeah, I would have a chance, legit chance to win the last two major championships. With what swing? I didn't have a swing at the time. You know, I had no speed. I didn't have a golf swing.

I didn't have, you know, my short game wasn't quite there yet. You know, my putting was okay, but, you know, God, I hadn't played in two years. And so it's been a hell of a process this year. Think about this for a second in terms of Tiger Woods. I know people who are in his inner camp. And if you go back two years ago, Two years ago. This is even before the DUI,

which was a year ago, I think in May, end of May. Remember, he didn't know where he was. He was talking nonsense. I mean, it was really sad. It felt like, man, this is the end. Even before that, I knew people in his inner circle

who I had been told, said, we got to find something else. Like, this whole tiger playing tournaments trying to recapture the glory, like, we got to do something else. It was like one of those bands from the 80s. All of a sudden now, they were the opening gig, and they were playing fairs. They were no longer playing even festivals and stadiums.

The arena gigs had shored up, and they were showing up, and they were opening up at fairs for some minute. That's what it felt like. It was bad. Pulling out of tournaments, people making jokes about it. Remember, he said his glutes wouldn't fire. Remember he had laryngitis one week, and he was bad. It just sounded awful. He looked bad.

His swing was painful. Multiple back operations. Multiple knee surgeries. Achilles surgery. People in golf said, it's over. He needs a friend to tell him it's over. You know what it wasn't yesterday? It wasn't over.

What's the line from Princess Bride? He was mostly dead, which as we have come to learn also means he's somewhat alive. He wasn't blaving, he wasn't bluffing. I also found it curious, like, and look, remember, Tiger has gone against the grain for golf culture. It just has.

Even wearing his hat backwards when he's walking out to the course, something that he used to do back in the day. You know, he was the Ken Griffey Jr. of his sport. He was the old golf guy. Not just being mixed, raced, but being younger, being hipper. acting differently, unabashedly at times, cursing at the ball, cursing at the sky, cursing at his golf club. Not always the way you want to purport yourself, but there were others that said he was doing it the wrong way. Even as late as last week, Brando Shambly, former golfers and analyst, had this to say in the Dan Patrick show about what could have been for Tiger Woods.

He would have won 20 plus major championships and 100 plus events. And he traded all of that speed for strength. And I think it was purely for, you know, vanity reasons. He has an obsession with perfection, perfect golf swing. He's changed his swing three or four times. Cost him two years each time he did it. It changed his body because he was looking for the perfect body. And who knows what that cost him in time and injuries and majors and tournaments.

Some of that might be true. Brooks Kepka would probably dispute that. I don't think it's vanity that's allowed. Brooks Kepka to look like a bodybuilder out there. I think it's athletic training. I think it's sports in the 21st century. Either train your body or you're going to be passed by guys who are willing to put in the time in the gym, not just on the range.

There was a book written about Tiger, about his background, came out earlier this year. It talked about just how dysfunctional his family unit was. You have golfers that have said, and golf analysts that have said, somebody needs to tell him it's over. So it's not just being. competitive. It's not just getting the cheers. It's everything they said he couldn't do. He did. He didn't even figure out his driver. He couldn't hit a fairway. He would have been better off throwing it down the fairway than he would have hitting it with his bit with the biggest club

in his bag. And yet he still found a way to shoot his 64, his lowest score on a Sunday at a major ever. And look, I understand that course was not tricked up. That course was designed. That course was so that guys could go at flags. And oh yeah, by the way, hey, this is to the USGA. We love you here on Fox. We love the U.S. Open. But you got to make courses that people can score on because that's what we like.

And if you don't realize it, the NBA has figured it out, changing their rules to increase scoring, and the NFL has figured it out with every rule they have done either for safety or to increase scoring. And yesterday was a great watch. Some of it was because of Tiger,

but also because guys could go out and go out a flag on 17. Guys could go out and go out flags on par threes, as opposed to Shinnecock, which is the more ultimate test of golf. But, dude, watching guys put things around and them rolling off the green, even when they hit it to the spot that they want or just missing by an inch or two, I don't think that's as watchable as yesterday what we saw. Tiger Woods overcame so much. I became a fan boy. I'm guessing you did too, right? You started dismissing all the, well, yeah, I know there was those women, but he wasn't married to me. and yeah, sure, he used to treat people poorly,

but now he's incredibly gracious. Listen to him. Sure, I know Brooks Keppka's a good American guy, but he's not Tiger. You just started making excuses and cheering against anybody else and cheering for Tiger. Maybe we're cheering for our own childhood. Maybe we're cheering for dudes that are 40

that kind of look like us that have done some things to inflict themselves with wounds. There is something to the turnaround. I mean, look, even in Hollywood, Anakin Skywalker was good, then goes bad, then spoiler alert, if you haven't seen Return of the Jedi, he actually goes good for a moment in time at the end before he dies. In football, Mike Vic, right? Mike Vic was the modern American quarterback.

Comes from nothing, tears it up in Virginia Tech, best player on the football field, even though they're playing against Florida State in the national championship game. Then it was the Mike Vic experience. Nike put everything behind him. The Falcons put everything behind him. And then the dog fighting. Self-inflicted wounds. Had he simply told the commissioner the truth when they met,

none of the other stuff would have happened. Goes to jail, comes back, and then is a revered member of football in America. The comeback, even when those wounds are self-inflicted. I mean, I don't know if it was self-inflicted for, Hulk Hogan to go from good guy to bad guy to I think good guy before the videotape made him into a bad guy again. But we've had this, we've had this a part of our culture for as long as our culture has existed, especially once it's become pop culture. And Tiger Woods rise

is incredibly enjoyable because it's a lot more relatable than a country club sport and a country Club kid becoming successful initially. Guys that win the genetic lottery, like a LeBron James, their initial rise isn't as enjoyable as when they get demonized and then they build themselves up back again. Even LeBron, who never did anything off the court to cause us to ever point fingers. But shunning Cleveland, leaving behind, being arrogant, not one, not two, not three, not four, not five. However you look at it, the fact is that he wore the black hat for a year and then decided,

that ain't no fun. And he's become an American sports icon ever since. All right, up coming next. I have one big takeaway from the NFL preseason so far, and there's been a lot of football. I watched, and I don't know about you, an uncomfortable amount of golf this past weekend,

an uncomfortable amount of football. There's one team that got incredibly lucky, and that luck is going to cause them to make a gastid, an absolutely disaster of a mistake. I'll tell you what that is next in the herd. Car shopping can be confusing. Terms like dealer price, list price, invoice price. True cars you show you what other people paid for the car you want.

You can recognize a good price. You're ready for a new or used car. Visit true car. You can enjoy more confident car buying experience. I'm Doug Gottlieb, Ben for Colin, Joy Taylor alongside. The crew all here. I believe Holly Saunders, once she is ready, will be joining us. She just asked me if she can wear a hat?

I was like, what do you wear a hat? Can I wear a hat? I'm wear a hat? Why not? Because it blocks her face. Well, you don't have to wear it low. Yeah, but then you wear it like on top of your hair. That looks awkward.

That looks bad. It's impossible for Holly to look awkward. I agree. Well, I don't know. I don't know what hat she's like just a hat is a very like... So you're nervous about what kind of hat? I just don't think it's a good idea for it for attractive people to wear something that covers their face. Especially when the lights come down.

Like we have professional lighting. The lighting on the set is amazing. It's probably not best for the lighting. it might create a shadow. We won't be able to see her at all. Between makeup and lighting here on this set, I look incredible. I'm a little Colin looks good.

He looks like Gargamel when he's not made up on this set. But when he is, he looks dashing. He looks debonair. He looks handsome. As do I. It's all the makeup people and the lighting. And I'm just saying that it takes away from it if you cover up half your face with a hat.

She may have been joking. She was not joking. I'll ask her if she's joking. Yeah, we'll ask her if she's joking. Sometimes. Sometimes you get really, really lucky. Right? You get really, really lucky.

You go to Vegas? Sometimes, yes. Okay. When you go to Vegas, what do you play? Do you have a gamble? I like roulette. I don't listen to poker. Blackjack, you know.

I think Blackjack's one to which, you know, you feel like anybody can kind of play. Like, even if you're not good at it. Well, because they help you. I'm not a huge gambler. I really don't like giving away money. I get a set amount of cash. If I go through that,

consider that's my entertainment dollar and then I'm good. Sure. Okay. So, you know, when you sit down in a blackjack table and it says like dealer has to hit on, what is it, like 16 usually? Right. Right. Soft 17.

Or soft 17. And so if you have 17 and they have what looks like a soft set, potentially a soft 17 showing, like you shouldn't take a card, but oftentimes guys do, right? say you have your own soft 17 and you take a card and you're like, you know what, that was a bad idea. And you get a, you get a, you get a non-face card.

Say you're sitting there and you got Ace, Ace 5, right? And you're sitting there and you're like, well, okay, I'll take a card. And you get a two. Like, hmm, what should I do here? You should stay. You should not hit. You should be good.

You should be happy. especially when they have a six showing. Maybe even they get potentially 16 showing. They're going to have to take a card and your odds decrease with every card you take, your odds stay the same or increase with every card that they take, right? Because they can bust. That's where the Jets are right now with Sam Darnel.

I may not explain that perfectly, but it worked out well in my head. No, I totally understood what you were saying. Music sitting there. He's a poker guy. Did I, do they like the split tens thing? I like the split tens. All right. Because it's dumb, but it can work out. Okay.

Let's go. Can we go back? All right. You're sitting there in Vegas. You're feeling pretty good about yourself. And you get a pair of tens, right? You get a pair of tens and the dealer shows an ace. Like, would you like insurance?

Like, nah, I'm good. And they peak and there's no 21. All right. So they're probably going to have to take a card, right? Barring a nine under there or eight under there, they're going to have to take a card. And you're sitting there with two tens showing. And you said, it's gambling, right? Let's split tens.

Let's go crazy. And anyone who's ever told you anything about Vegas or anything about blackjack tells you, don't ever split tens. You got a winning hand. The Jets were sitting there last year, I believe with the sixth pick in the draft, which is not a truly winning hand, but considering the fact that there were some quarterbacks out there, somebody would follow them, they would likely get. get a Baker Mayfield, a Josh Rosen or a Sam Donald, or at worst case, a Josh Allen at six,

potentially a franchise quarterback. So what did they do? They split tens. They split tens. They traded three second round picks and swapped first round picks to trade up, but not for the number one overall pick. It was actually a terrible trade. It was splitting tens.

And what do they got? They got a couple of sixes. I got a couple of sixes. So they didn't get the perfect hand, but the dealer ended up busting anyway and help them. That's because the Cleveland Browns picked Baker Mayfield, who may be more refined, maybe fits the Cole Cleveland mantra a little bit better, right?

Like he's six foot nothing, a hundred and nothing, former walk-on. But everyone I've talked to in the National Football League tells you that Sam Darnab was the higher rated, more well-regarded prospect. like Sam Donald is is beloved. It started raining on his pro day and he was like, let's do it. It's throwing the rain anyway. He's just the dude.

Got that big giant orange hid. It looks like Sputnik, right? I'm thinking about flashbacks to, so I married an axe murderer. Not only did the Browns pass on the number one prospect, but the giants. who occupy and frankly dominate the exact same stadium that the Jets occupy had a chance that they only get once every 15 or 20 years to draft in the top five and to get a replacement for Eli Manning. Well, let's be honest is on his last legs.

They both passed. The dealer busted. And they end up getting the winnings. They end up getting Sam Donald. The number one prospect at quarterback, the most important position in the sport, ends up following to the judge. Jets who made a terrible decision to trade up, which is not the terrible decision, but to only

trade up for the third pick in the draft. But what are they going to do? They're going to play them before they should. Because it's not just that they know they won the draft. They want the giants to know they won the draft.

They want to parade Sam Darmer round in their stadium and go like, hey, could have been yours, but he was ours. Whereas the smart and the prudent thing is you got Josh McCown. You got three games in 10 days to start the season. Plus, you're behind a patchwork offensive line with guys out wide that no one can

actually name. Greg Jennings played in the NFL, covers the NFL. He's like, look, dude, they all have name tags on because nobody knows who the Jets are. The Jets lucked their way, fought their way to five wins. People thought they would be the team, not the Browns, that didn't win any games last season. And the Jets are going to do what the Jets always do, which is screw up a winning hand. They got the winnings. They should walk away from the table, right? In addition, Joy, I'm guessing, to having entertainment money, you probably say to yourself,

all right, once I get up a hundred bucks, I'm going to take the hundred bucks that I was going to gamble, put it in my pocket and never touch it. Then I'm only playing with house money, right? Oh, no. I'm not a psychopath. No? Well, that's debatable, but I'm only going to lose a certain amount. Yes, but once you start winning, don't she ever factor in your head like, all right, look, now I'm winning. Now I'm up, I'm up 500. I'm going to put the 100 that I put out there and the extra 100.

Now I'm going to be up 100 no matter what at the end of the night. No, that's too much thinking. I don't Campbell like that. It's just like I'm just going to the table. I'll pretend for you for the. You can pretend for me? Yes. You can play act for real.

I totally take some of the money and put it in my bag. My point is just like, look, the Jets are going to win in the end. They got the better quarterback. Right. Right. They got the better quarterback. back. Like, that's enough. It's the, it's the, do you like apples? I got a number that, you know, I got it. But you don't have to parade or around right in front of the same guy.

You don't have to. Just you won. Let him develop. Let him evolve. He only was a starting quarterback for a year and three quarters. He's only 20 years old. You're going to throw him in in 10 games in 10 days is too much. Allow him to learn from Josh McCown. Show off Teddy Bridgewater so you could potentially trade him for another piece. Let him sit, let him think, let him learn. And when the right time, the right matchup comes up, then you play him later in the year when he's seen, when he's developed some, when things slow down a little bit. Just because he's good in the first preseason game, hell most of the quarterback's good in preseason games. Why? they change the rules to help the offense.

Well, they're also not playing against, you know, not playing against the best. He did, he made some reads, he made some throws, he did some things that very few young guys can make. But your point is taken, right? There's a reason that we're like, oh, he looked good, and he looked good, he looked good. It is better than looking bad.

There's the potential of looking bad in preseason too. There's the Paxton Lynch who gets booed off his home field, right? It is available, yes. Okay, so that does happen. But they swap first round picks, They trade up three second round picks, but only for the third pick in the draft. It's not a smart trade, but it ends up working out for them.

But they're going to play Sam Donald too early because they're the Jets. They're not used to winning when they go to Vegas. Here's Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, so the Browns are looking for a wide receiver,

and Des Bryant is looking for a job. So maybe there's a match there. He will be visiting the Browns later this week, and Hugh Jackson and Tyrod Taylor both spoke about what Des could potentially bring to the Browns. I don't think you can ever have too many good football players, you know, as long as they fit. You know, long as it's the right fit for the organization,

for the locker room, for all involved. We know what type of talent that Des brings to the football field. He's been a very, very good player in its time throughout this league, and he adds talent to that room, to the wide receiver room. I hope it can get done. But like I said, that's up to management. And I definitely think he can help this team. The Browns have the potential to be the most interesting team in football this year.

The potential, too. With all the storylines and all the personalities there, I really do believe that. And if they get Des there also. And Josh Gordon. What about the Rams? An actual good thing. football team that it added in Domenu, Marcus Peters, Akib Khalib, just gave out a huge contract to Brandon Cooks, who all he can do is go long.

And oh yeah, by the way, their best player is still holding out. Outside of that, the Browns are absolutely a better story than the Rams. Listen, just because you're a better team doesn't mean that you are more interesting. I just gave you the interesting to go along with the team. I'm just saying, though, that all of those things are true, but the Rams are quiet. The Rams are quiet about everything that they do. You don't hear stories. You don't hear personalities speaking out from the Rams.

And I like that about the Rams. I actually like the... All right. We'll see. I mean, it hasn't happened. Well, they also... Listen, the Browns also have... I mean, look, they got a wide receiver who should have been suspended.

I mean, I'm sure you read this story, right? Where Browns have a wide receiver that gets pulled over, smell of weed, like gun stuff in the car. Sure. And their punishment was, We wanted to play them the entire game as fun of it. But look, this is what I'm talking about. The Browns are interesting.

I didn't say that the Browns are going to be good. I said that they're going to be interesting. Although a lot of people do feel like they're going to be good too. Well, moderately good. I mean, better than last year. No, look, they've done a bet. They have some. Hugh can coach offense.

And I think they have, we'll talk about them in a second. Because they are interesting. I just don't know if they'll be the most interesting team in the NFL. And adding Des would help that interesting idea as well. Fine. John Gurdon last room, the Oakland, the Amiswara's head coach, January 12, 2002. So his return Friday night had a lot of nostalgia.

Let's take listen to Gruden after the game. It was awesome. I mean, I saw some recognizable faces that had gotten a little bit older. I saw some old friends that they mean a lot to me. Like I said, all along, this is a great responsibility. The nostalgia's worn off. We got to do something with the opportunity, but it was sure great to see the Raider fans, and they stay with us until the end.

I really appreciate it. So he got a warm welcome, obviously, there. This is why they got Gruden. I know everyone flipped out about the contract, and, you know, Colin's very worried that they're going to be a dumpster fire this year. But Gruden is a star, no matter what. And with all of the turnover happening in Oakland and then them going to Vegas, they needed a star coach.

And he was the perfect candidate for it. I kind of think we're underselling how good a coach he was last time around. But it was a long time ago. That's why everyone's questioning it. But it's not like he went, it's not like he went Joe Gibbs and was in NASCAR, right? He was working and covering the NFL to which you watch film of all teams. And I understand there's a learning curve. And some of it, I don't love some of the chances they've taken with draft picks or even the trade they made for Martavis Bryant.

It's not they traded for Martavis Bryant, but I think it was a third round pick. Like, that should be like a six or a seventh round pick. But he does anybody watch Martavis Bryant when he's eligible to play in the NFL. NFL knows he's a freak level Rainy Moss type of potential Tout, maybe not Randy Moss, but a notch, like a poor man's Randy Moss. But look, when the Raiders were last good, he was their coach.

When Tampa was last good, he was their coach. And yeah, he had a couple of bad years in Tampa. When they had injuries at quarterback, when Chris Sims got hit and his spleen exploded. Yeah, that happened. When Rob, when

what's his name? Who's the quarterback when they went to won the Super Bowl? I can't remember, shoot. You know, when he aged, so they needed a quarterback. He couldn't decide on a quarterback. He had quarterback issues in Tampa, and that's what ultimately led to him getting fired.

Well, most great coaches, all coaches have a down year. It's not bad. I think it's just people are, people are questioning, one, because the contract is so huge that that automatically put a different level of pressure on him. Like, okay, does he really deserve this ridiculous contract

being out of the sport for the ball? Yeah, but see, I actually think the length of the contract is purposeful so that there's not that pressure. And oh yeah, by the way, remember, he wasn't coming over from an assistant job or even a head coaching job. He had a 30-year job. Yeah.

Right? So the only way to get a guy to leave the Monday Night Football Booth is to massively overpay him in years and in length. Yeah. And they're coming into a new home in Las Vegas and they want to say, like you said, he is a star, he is a known commodity.

Oh, you need it. Here's our guy. You need it. It makes sense to me. I don't think, I'm in between. Do I think that the best team in that division is the Chargers. But it's still the Chargers. You know, got to see them start strong to actually believe that it's going to happen.

The Chiefs are interesting because they split a winning hand. You know, they had a perfectly good quarterback, and they're like, you know what? He's got a ceiling. Pat Mahomes is a higher ceiling. But there's also a lower floor because he's younger and he's going to throw some picks. They change things in Kansas City. I think Denver's the dumpster fire in that one. I think Denver's the one that no one's telling them, dude, it's time to rebuild.

Case Keenham is not the answer to get to the playoffs, in my opinion. In my opinion. Well, I'll be watching, that's for sure. Finally, Isaiah Thomas, he doesn't know how to let it be. He posted a video on Instagram calling Cleveland a bleephole and said, I can see why LeBron left again. And then he, of course, posted an apology. Let's take a listen. Now, Cleveland wasn't that bad.

I shouldn't have said that. That was my fault. Cleveland was actually cool. It was all right. The situation just wasn't the best, but I didn't, I apologize for saying it was a it wasn't. I really don't know what to make of Isaiah Thomas. It's like every time I start having some sympathy for his situation, because I really do

feel like he shouldn't have played and that that injury got intensified and now he's on a minimum contract because of that. But then he goes out and says something like this. Like, look, I'm not a big fan of Cleveland. I grew up in Pittsburgh. It's kind of the rule. You played there, man. Like, you got to, you can't say stuff like that.

There were fans there that cheered for you. That's not, it's not cool. Not cool. It just, you guys just have to be more self-aware than that. Even if that's how you feel, you're entitled to feel that way. You can't just come out and say it. Especially if you're going to say it, say that the situation was that way. Don't say that the city is that way.

This is the problem with social media. Like we want, guys are always like, look, I don't need a PR guy. I don't need a filter. I'll just be me. People accept me for being me. Like, this is the reason PR guys exist because they would never allow you to say that or publish that.

You go live on IG that thing lives forever. Once you think, ah, who's going to follow it? Like, dude, you got like a million followers. Everybody's, everybody's going to see it. And then all they have to do is save it and now it becomes public. Here's the summation of it.

What makes us will break us. I mean, you can be yourself. Like, I don't have a problem with people being themselves. The idea, last pick of the NBA draft, A guy who people told him, he bounced around, people who couldn't make it. You have to have, you have to have that sort of, I'll give you an example. Scott Brooks is a friend of mine. He's the head coach of the Wizards.

And I remember watching Scott Brooks play pickup basketball when he was still in college. And a guy talked trash to him. He had five threes in row on him. And after the game, he looked at him in the eye and he said, you're going to be flipping burgers in five years. And I get off my court, right? and you're like, man, what? But you have to have that to make it as a 5 foot 11, 5 foot 10 backup guard in the NBA.

You have to have a chip on your shoulder. You have to have it. The problem is that when it gets focused on the wrong things and you just start speaking, like, of course people are going to take it negatively. And there's no dialing to back. And then, oh yeah, by the way, once you say asshole again, even when you're apologizing for it. Like, ugh.

And that's Joy with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lye News. There's certain irony to the fact that Baker Mayfield has been tagged as the underdog in Cleveland. I'll tell you why they actually have the wrong quarterback in Cleveland listed as the underdog of coming next. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. What up? Welcome in Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurd.

Hope you're having a great Monday. some have dropped off their kids at school. I know it starts early and earlier, it seems like. Some are getting ready to drop off. You're like, man, how long is this summer going to go? Dollar Shave Club has an amazing shower, hairstyling, oral care, and yes, shaving products. Colin actually promoted that last Friday. I did, in fact, shave with my Dollar Shave Club razor in his dressing room.

So no matter how you get ready, they have everything you need. And right now, you can get an amazing deal on any one of their starter sets at Dollar Shaveclub.com slash Colin. What is an underdog? What is an underdog? How would you characterize an underdog? Hmm. I wasn't bored during the break,

but I did look it up. Just so, just so, you know, we're aware, a competitor thought to have a little chance of winning a fight or a contest. That's the underdog. So I look at the Cleveland Brown situation. And for the record, Colin and I have, he asked me this Thursday

on the show when I was down at Charger Camp. My thoughts on Baker Mayfield. And I said, look, I think he got a little bit wrong that though he carries himself with a certain amount of confidence, boarding around arrogance, unlike others that are perceived that way, he was beloved in his sooner locker room.

Beloved. Like, yeah, he's kind of cock-of-the-walk sort of guy. But he was beloved as a leader. He's got a high football IQ. The questions about Baker Mayfield would be how would he perform when he doesn't have elite talent around him? Can you lift a franchise up, the way that Andrew Luck had to, his first three years with the Colts?

Remember, though he was at Texas Tech as a freshman walk on and he got a chance to start, when you play at Texas Tech, you're playing with one of the best offensive minds in the entire sport clip Kingsbury. Don't believe me, look at the numbers he put up, look at the numbers Davis Webb put up, look at the numbers Pat Mahomes put up,

look at the numbers, every quarterback they've had to put up. The issue at Texas Tech has never been quarterback play, ever. This year it might be because they have a couple to choose from. Then he goes to Oklahoma, and he's surrounded by the best talent in the league. Oklahoma has better players than 95% of the teams that they play against. And he's been coached by Lincoln Riley, who, from that same mold, one of the elite play callers offensive minds in the entire business. What happens when you go to the Cleveland Browns or to,

any organization in the NFL where you don't have elite level talent. Travis Landry is that type of talent, but they don't have Josh Gordon. There's a lot of question marks about the rest of the team. So I'm not negative on Baker Mayfield, but the evaluation of Baker Mayfield is a little bit small, not as athletic as people think, though he's accurate, how strong is his arm, how good is his ability to play? He's just not rated out as good a prospect as a Sam Donald or maybe. maybe a Josh Rosen, and by some of Josh Allen, a bigger, better deep ball thrower,

even if he's not as accurate. But he's got a super high football IQ. But let me tell you two different stories, and you tell me who the underdog is. One quarterback is as decorated a quarterback to enter the National Football League as we've ever had. He was a finalist for the Heisman trophy three times. He won the Heisman trophy once. He played in the college football playoff two different times. He played a historically great university for football under an incredible longtime head coach

and a profound play caller. He was the number one overall pick in the NFL draft. That's one quarterback. The other quarterback was a sixth round draft pick, also smaller than the other quarterback, but not even six feet tall. he's on his third team. His last team, he led to the playoffs after the longest drought in the national football league.

They tried to bench him last year and the rookie threw five interceptions in the first half. And there's nearly a mutiny in the hands of the coach. And even after leading his previous team to the playoffs, they still didn't want him around and he ends up going to a team that had won zero games the year before. So I watched the Browns play, and I thought Baker-Mayfield played well. Should be pointed out that Tyrod Taylor also played well, maybe played better. It didn't throw in complete pass.

Yet somehow, and we do this as a viewing public, we create guys that we like, we create narratives that we like. Baker Mayfield was undervalued, underrated coming out of high school. He was, in fact, a walk on at Texas Tech, although he did have opportunities to be a Division one football player at other places. He chose to walk on. He did the same at Oklahoma. But he wasn't undervalued in the national football league. If anything, he might have been overvalued.

Might have been overrated. He was the number one overall pick. Of any player you could pick, he went first. So it's just amazing to me on how we consider him an underdog, a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest, as opposed to Tyrod Taylor, who's smaller, bounce around from Baltimore to Buffalo, now to Cleveland, and really has essentially no chance of holding off Baker Mayfield,

no matter how well he plays. Think about that for a second. What you call an underdog and what actually is an underdog. In this fight, Tyrod Taylor's the underdog. Baker Mayfield is the favorite. There's no other way to look at it, even if your mind wants to tell you, watching Baker Mayfield scramble around,

makes you think of the fact that he was a walk-on at tech and lost his starting job, and then a walk-on at Oklahoma, and then won the starting job, and then eventually won the Heisman trophy. If you actually know the definition of a word, Tyrod Taylor, by definition, by any definition, is the underdog in that quarterback competition. They drafted Baker-Mayfield number one. When you draft a guy number one overall,

the reason that you can't miss is because he is going to play. Period, stop, end of course. story. He is going to play. He has to succeed. You have to win with him. And if you don't believe me in Cleveland, it's just different to you number one. You can even miss on two. You can miss on three. You can't miss on one. Anthony Bennett was the number one overall pick with the Cleveland Cavaliers. And in that draft, in that draft, Victor Oladipo was probably the best of those top five, top ten guys. It wasn't just that they missed on Anthony Bennett. It was not in the NBA anymore. It's that they missed on the number one overall pick. They could have picked

anybody and they picked a guy that could even stick in the league. Baker Mayfield has to succeed. And look, John Dorsey probably doesn't even want to play him. He comes from Kansas City where they drafted Pat Mahomes last year, played him in the preseason and he played great, sat him the whole regular season, plays in Week 17, and then eventually bids a do to Alex Smith. I sure that's what he wants to do. But Pat Mahomes was drafted 10th.

There's a huge gap between being drafted 10th and being drafted 1st and being drafted first. overall for a team that's won one game combined in the past two years. Baker's going to play. Why? Because he's the favorite. Tyrod Taylor is the underdog that essentially has no shot. All right, got a great third hour for you. Peter King's going to join us. Holly Saunders eventually is going to join us with or without hat. We don't know. We'll find out. But I'm coming next. Tiger didn't win the tournament, but he won the day yesterday. Just how much did he win? We'll discuss it next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the herd. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd.

What is it? He always says wherever. Wherever you may be, wherever you may be listening. Whoever, whatever. Joy Taylor, far better memory than me. I'm Doug Gottlieb filling in for Colin here on FS1 on Fox Sports Radio on the IHeart Radio app or the Heard Podcast Network where you can download the All Ball Podcast. There we go. Now we've promoted everything. Joy, when's your next podcast drop?

Tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. Maybe I'm crazy podcast. Maybe I'm crazy podcast. Download that. It's a lot of fun. Obviously, Joy, knows a ton about sports,

but she also talks about other stuff. I learned about last time it was, what was the pizza thing? Stranger Pizza. Yes. Do you know what you're talking about on tomorrow's podcast? Do you have any?

We're going to do a little tiger. Yes. We're going to do a little football. Yeah? Yeah. We're going to have a guess. Yes. The usual.

I just meant it was there, another story. I love the, I love that stuff, the sports stuff, but I also love the other stuff, like the Stranger Pizza. Oh yeah, Nicky Minaj dropped an album, so we're going to discuss that. You're going to break down the Nikki Minaj album? Yes. All right, that's on her podcast. Let's talk Tiger for a second. The lovely and talented former golfer golf or golf analyst, Holly Saunders is going to join us for a second. Congratulations to Tiger Woods on winning yesterday. And you may be waking up from a slumber or you may be driving around two and from it worked be like wait i could swear

some guy named brooks kepka who won three majors of the last seven won yesterday no no my friend Tiger Woods won yesterday I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna is it quote retweet

that's something to do on air quote retweet Kyle Porter from CBS Tiger Woods wins the 2018 PGA championship with the score of 14 under Brooks kepka finished the second with the score of 16 under Perfect. Perfect tweet. Because that's how America felt.

Brooks was fantastic. I got no bones to pick with Brooks. I wish you would have duck hooked one, right? I wish he would have somehow somebody else, Noonan at the wrong moment, and he putted one completely off the green. But he didn't. He was unflappable. He was, frankly, kind of tiger-like, had the lead, made people play catch up, try and score, and they couldn't catch him. It did help that he had Adam Scott and his ridiculously long drafts. neck putter, shaking in his boots as the closest competitor. But Tiger Woods, in spite of the fact that he couldn't find the fairway on the front nine, put a 64 on the board, and it wasn't enough. He got better as the week went on, which goes counter to what he had been doing during this

comeback. He comes in wearing a red shirt with his hat, backwards, sunglasses off, and you knew something special would follow, and he didn't disappoint. Tiger was Tiger of old. Even if he didn't ultimately raise the Warner Maker trophy at the end of the day, he won. He won. People laughed at him. People told him to quit.

People told him it was over. They brought up the womanizing. They bring up the injuries. They talk about the swing changes. And now he's his own swing coach or even the DUI to which he didn't know where he was, who he was, or what he was. And we all thought that there was the possibility that this thing may be completely going off course. And we might never see Tiger Woods on a golf course. Heck, you even go back to February at Riviera,

which is a couple of miles away from where I sit right now. He didn't make the cut. And he felt like, man, this is a comeback tour to which no one's going to buy an album. No one. You go to last week where he placed at Firestone, a place he had won eight times. And he faded down the stretch.

You know what? Father Time catches up with all of us. You just don't have it anymore. until he did. Took the day off on Wednesday. Didn't play a practice round. Huh. Must be worn out.

You go to Friday when they had the weather delay and he's sweating, he's fizzing all over the place, and he looks exhausted. And you think, you know what, a weather delay, after playing a couple of holes, his back's going to tighten up, he just doesn't have it. And then Saturday he did, with the exception of missing four or five putts

that could have put him as the co-leader. Could have gone away into the night, but he shoots a 64, and he wins the day. Kepka won the trophy. Kepka won the tournament. He's a deserved champion and a guy who's a formidable foe. And a guy who, oh yeah, by the way, has created a career in the likeness of Elgin'Tiger Woods. Wait, how do I get to where I am as a teenage golfer to where he used to be? I get in the weight room.

I work on my distance. I hit it long. I hit it straight. And the rest is easy. hitting a pitching wedge from 150. I mean, it's ridiculous. But considering where he was, and now we hit all, or maybe not all,

most of us had sealed the fate of Tiger Woods. That 14 was going to be as good as it gets. He didn't win 15, he didn't win 16, he didn't win 17, he didn't win 18. You know what? Here's the thing. Michael Jordan doesn't have more NBA titles than anybody else on Earth. Bill Russell actually does. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. And even if you want to make the argument that LeBron James does, you could say the same thing.

LeBron James has a below 500 record in the NBA finals. And yet you can sit there and go, some people can say he's the greatest basketball player I've ever seen. I can dispute that. I can argue that. But there's an argument to be made for him. I don't know if he'll catch Jack. Don't know. I'm pretty sure he's going to win another major.

I feel like Augusta feels like the place that it'll happen. But even if he doesn't, does he really have to get to 18 or 19? for you to say, that's the best guy I've ever seen play golf. Viewership spiked by 69% comparative year-to-year PGA. I know yeah, by the way, you want to know how big the Tiger Effect was yesterday?

I'm going to let you down for a second. You've got to wait about 250 days to see him play in a major again. Like, oh, man. Yeah, it's how long? All right, let's bring in the lovely and talented Fox Sports Golf Analyst, former golfer herself, Holly Saunders, who has chosen to join us without the hat. Welcome, Holly. Yes, no hat. No, did you say that I was going to wear a hat?

You asked me if you're going to, you should wear a hat. And I said, no, absolutely not. I came in from Nashville very late. And I just, I didn't look very good today. And then I came in, you know, just for you. And, yeah, we tried to put it together. Joy was pro hat. Joy said you could wear anything and you would look good.

I said, well, thank you, Joy. I said, that's the whole idea, though. I know. I know. In your text, you said, that'll cover your face. So I thought maybe I would have some kind of shadow. Yes. Well, yeah, that's what I was concerned about.

Not because he was like you could look awkward. And I said it's impossible for Holly to look awkward. Fair enough. With the lighting, we may not have actually physically seen your face. It would have looked like you were going to a funeral, right? Plus you're wearing all black. But it was a red hat and I was going to turn it backwards. She's wearing like that lace cover over her face.

Listen, this really doesn't work for radio, but I will point out. I'm glad we can see. No hat. See the entirety of your face. Tiger yesterday. Go. I listened to everything that you just said. I mentioned I was in the Nashville airport watching this whole thing unfold.

People started booing as they were coming down the stretch when Brooks Kepa was being shown and they weren't showing Tiger Woods. You said, you know, I wanted Brooks Kepka to duck hook it in the water. And we're unfairly rooting against this guy who's a wonderful golfer, a wonderful person because we want to see Tiger win so much. I'm standing around that bar watching people literally boo when they put the guy who's leading the tournament up and not show Tiger. Which is the opposite of, remember when Tiger was scuffling around for the past couple years, and we'd still show Tiger Woods highlights.

And you'd see on Twitter like, why are they showing Tiger Woods? Show the guys are actually winning the term. Because he's everything. I understand. So look, you played the game. You've covered the game. You came to Fox from the Golf Channel covering it for the U.S. Open and all the other events that we have here on Fox Sports. How accurate is it when I say that almost everybody, not everybody,

but a very high percentage of people in the golf world thought he was done. Most of us did. I'm guilty of saying that I thought it was over. A lot of people thought, you know, he's just embarrassing himself at this point. You mentioned the mugshot. And that was 14 months ago. It's not six years ago.

That was 14 months ago that Tiger Woods didn't even know where he was when he was pulled over with different things in his system. Again, I was guilty of saying I think it's over and he should retire. he's back. And he has a fused back and he's better than I've almost ever seen him. It's amazing. Remember he had, what was it? It was last year he had the chipping yips, right? All of a sudden, a short game left him. Short game completely left him, okay? And then the short game's back. And then there were times this year where he drove the ball really well, didn't drive it well yesterday. Not at all. He missed every

single fairway on the front nine, but shot of 32. But Doug, that's what tells me the tiger's back because that's the golf that he played for so long. Like, if we could take a look here, I think we're going to pull this video of him at 17 yesterday. If you want to know if Tiger's back, look no further than 17 and 18 yesterday. He missed it so far off the T on 17, that he was actually okay.

He was over the creek. He missed it that far to the right, and then had a shot out, then he puts it in the bunker, then it's, he gets up and down. That's stressful golf to play, but that's Tiger Golf. Then 18, he almost whips it out of balance on the left.

Then hooks, you know, gets his nine iron, and they're just about 15 feet and sinks the put, everybody goes crazy. That's, that's Tiger Woods. Okay, so if I said, I think he's going to win at least another major, do I say, obviously, a lot of it is reacting to yesterday, but I thought he's going to win another major even before yesterday. Am I crazy? Not at all.

Not at all. All right. Next year you have Augusta, Beth Page, and Pebble. Okay. and, you know, Pebble is the place where he won by 15 strokes. We would like it to be a pebble because that's ours. That's our U.S. Who wouldn't like to be a pebble?

I do feel like Augusta is the place where he's most likely to win his next one. We'll know if he comes in with that backwards hat on. I want to take another look at the backwards hat because that's what told me yesterday before the round even started. I wanted to call all my friends and just say, you know, put everything you have, put the kids, you know, college, whatever it is, funds all in Vegas right now on Tiger Woods. You like this look. I love that he does that.

The last time I saw him with a backwards hat just like that was walking into Mirfield at the Memorial tournament 10 years ago when I was an intern in Columbus, Ohio. That's the last time I saw Tiger looking like that. I wanted to call everybody and say, just put, you know, whatever your wife says, forget it. Put everything right now on Tiger in Vegas

because he's going to ball. There are certain things, Doug, that you do in life when you know you're about to ball. Like what? Like wearing the backwards hat to a major championship or like getting a neck tat. See, I think. I think necktats, you better be a rapper.

Backing into a parking spot. You better be a rapper. You better be a baller. Or you're going to be doing day labor if you do necktack. Right? Like you go to Wall Street. There's no guys on Wall Street with a necktat. No, like you better be doing something special.

If you only go by an initial. If you only go by one name. Yeah, the one name thing is strong. Like if you go one name, you've got to be really, really good. Right. But usually the one name thing is given to you. You don't say like, hey, you know, it's like nicknames. You can't give yourself a nickname.

Like prints. That wasn't given to me. Last thing, the USGA does catch a lot of heat because they make their golf courses harder. They just do. And, you know, Shinnecock's a tough one. They didn't have to water the greens this year, but there were some adjustments that had to be made on the fly. What's, what's, yesterday was a little bit too easy, a little bit too scoreable. Some of it's the weather.

They had the downpour. You can't fight that, yeah. Okay. But in terms of the setup of the golf course, I root for the easier courses. I want these guys to go for it. Why? No, most of America. wants to see it be a challenge. No, they don't. They don't want to see guys in complete misery.

I just, they don't. Did you think the U.S. Open was complete misery? Yes. Yes. And part of it was, I mean, he, what did? He tripled the first, I mean, tripled off the key. Tiger tripled the first hole of the championship. But I think he doubled, doubled the first hole of, yeah, he was plus three after two holes this weekend, right? I mean, and even on, I think on, on Thursday, he might have doubled on, on the first hole. But it's the idea that you can make up ground where you just can't make up ground in the U.S. Open. You start getting underwater and you're just fighting. So you don't like to see you guys finishing even par. You don't think that that's a good enough challenge. No, no. I want eagles. I want birdies.

Hell, my favorite golf tournament used to be, remember the international where they play in Denver and they had the modified Stableford system? Yeah. Where I like that. Like, I'm sorry, every other sport has gone to. It's about offense. It's about scoring. Football's gone there. Basketball's gone there. Why won't golf? Golf's making it harder. Not every. And again, you can't fight Mother Nature either. You know, Belrieve didn't know that it was, you know, it's, it was defenseless. When you get soft greens like that, everybody can go after all the pens. All right. Let's give Brooks Kepka a little bit of love. He's won three of the last seven majors. Is he now above the level of Rory? At the level of Speeth, by the way, the favorite, the early favorite for Augusta next year, Tiger, the second favorite. but where is Brooks Kepka in the pantheon of the elite golfers right now?

Brooks, just knowing Brooks. Brooks is like, I used to call him DJ Jr., basically, because they're best friends. Their swing instructor, Claude Harmon, said they work out exactly the same. The things that they talk about, they're just, they're very, very similar. They're very best friends.

I don't think he's DJ many anymore. I think he's now Brooks, and there's DJ. And I think Brooks might even be better than DJ right now. Nobody is better than Brooks, especially in the big moments. Right now, nobody's better than him. Yeah, that's probably the amazing thing is that with the tiger roars that were taking place. He didn't flinch. He didn't.

Adam Scott did. Some others did. Some others wilted under that pressure. And a lot of golfers aren't used to playing road games. And that was suddenly a road game, right? You're like, dude, wait, what happened? You guys all turned on me. They all turned on me.

But he didn't flinch whereas others did. Holly Saunders, you'll see her on speak for yourself a little bit later on. And of course, you see her covering golf. And the, you're doing college football this year, right? College football, college basketball. I know, but I was promoting everything that's upcoming. Well, thank you. You two can bro out in a second.

Holly Saunders, Joy Taylor, alongside. The one rookie quarterback that I'm worried about next season is Josh Rosen. I'll get Peter King's thoughts on that upcoming next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd love. Friday on Fox, the Big Three playoffs are live from Dallas. Catch Baron Davis, Nate Robinson, and other NBA stars as they hit the hardwood.

But the trip to the championship on the line, it all begins at 8 Eastern on Fox or stream it live on the Fox Sports app. And don't miss the big three finals on Friday, August 24th. Doug Gottliebin for Colin. This is The Heard Fox Sports Radio. Fox Sports One, the IHeart Radio app. Peter King's going to join us in mere moments. And Joy Taylor, you'll hear. her with the news in just a minute.

Look, I do think there's a couple things we're going to talk about with Peter. There's a massive overreaction by my estimation to the new helmet rule, right? There's a sign-feld line, right, that the helmet law, like the helmet law for guys riding a motorcycle is designed to protect a brain that it's performing so poorly it doesn't know it needs a helmet to protect it, which feels like this rule with football. Right. On one hand, you have former players who are suing the National Football League, not just for health care, but for damages sustained while they played in the NFL. And while helmet technology is better, there's just no way you can watch football, watch what's happened to so many players and not think, hey, we got to take steps to protect the current players so that there'll be future players. I know I have a nine-year-old son. I grew up playing football until I reached high school and then I focused on,

on basketball. But trying to get my wife to allow me to sign up my son was what I thought was the hardest thing. Now it's trying to get me to do it, right? Why would I put, have my son play tackle? Even with all the great things you learn from being a part of a football team, working together. It's the ultimate team sport, being called by your last name and not being personalized,

working in a group and 11 guys having to perform in order for a play to work. All those things are great. Getting the toughness of getting hit, getting up, dusting yourself off and getting back after it. I love it. But forget about my wife signing the permission slip. I won't because I'm just concerned about the safety of my kid. And if I can prolong that for another year, two years, haven't played flag football, I'll do it. I thought there were two plays last year that signified a reason for the helmet rule, the new crown of the helmet rule to go into effect. One is the Ryan Shazier hit. The other one is the miracle in Minneapolis.

where you got a rookie cornerback who tries that leads with his head doesn't see Stefan Diggs completely whiffs and they score a touchdown. Guys aren't hitting the right way. They aren't seeing what they hit. And though there's going to be some bumpy parts to putting this rule into place and they're probably going to err on the side of caution, that caution is so that we don't see images like you're seeing on Fox Sports 1. Great players like Ryan Seizier get carded off. We don't want that. and we don't want terrible plays,

form tackles being missed because a rookie quarterback has his head down at the end of a playoff game. We'll talk to Peter King about it, plus my concerns over the health of Josh Rosen with that beat-up offensive line of the Arizona Cardinals in a moment. But first, Joy Taylor with the news.

No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. So, Doug, we spoke last hour about how interesting the Browns could be this season. You had a little bit of pushback on that. I didn't say they're not interesting. You just said they're the most interesting. I think they will be the most interesting.

Okay. As of right now. I'm going to take the Rams for 200, Alex. Well, let's talk about how good they could potentially be. They obviously have nowhere to go but up since they won zero games last year. But a lot of people feel like they have a chance to take the league by surprise. And a former Steelers linebacker Lamar Woodley feels that way. Let's take a listen.

The Browns can be a dangerous team, man. They can definitely be a dangerous team. They made some good moves this off season. Coaches, players, they get theirs, Brian. They're going to be a tough team, man. Look, I don't think they're going to be a playoff team. Obviously, any win is a drastic improvement for them. Two wins would be a drastic improvement for them,

and I think everyone feels like they're going to get there. But it's the long-term potential, I think, that people are starting to see in what the Browns are doing. Yes, there are some inherent issues there, okay? you have Hugh Jackson. He wasn't hired by John Dorsey. He wants to win now. But what's he more likely to save his job doing?

Playing Tyrod Taylor will more likely help you win now. Or do you play the younger kid in Baker Mayfield, who may make more mistakes, but you'll get a pass on his mistakes because he's a rookie? I don't know how much of a pass Hugh has, which is why I believe that he is so behind Tyrod, no matter how great Baker performs in this preseason, they're going to go with Tyrod

because Hugh has to win some games in order to keep his job. And I don't have a problem with that being the case because who wouldn't do that? But I don't think he has that much flexibility for Baker to go out there and be bad. I feel like they should start Baker right away because he's the number one overall pick. So like you said before, two on?

All right, you have a little space there to make some mistakes. But if you're the number one overall pick, you have your pick of any college player that's eligible for the draft. and you picked him, he better be able to play and contribute. Now everyone's arguing he's not ready. To me, I feel like you whiffed on that pick if that's what it is. Look, look, I think that it's why that I thought they were really considering Josh Allen

because they wanted the plan of sitting him for a year. I would agree with you that Baker Mayfield should be ready to play because he played under two great offensive coaches. He was in college for five years. He's got a super high football IQ. The questions about Baker are the upside, not is he refined? he ready? So, you know, look, all of these things make them, as you said, interesting. Right. But I think we'll limit them an upside. And then even the fiddling around with Des Bryant.

Like, look, I like Des Bryant. I hope he still has a future in the NFL. But is he going to evolve and become a better route runner? Why isn't anybody who's really good interested in Des Bryant? Well, I think the situation with Des Bryant is also because of Josh Gordon not being in camp. So we don't know what's going on. They seem to be comfortable with the situation with Josh Gordon, at least what we're seeing and hearing from them. But if it's potentially not a great situation with Josh Gordon, Des Bryant is someone that could step in there.

Although Josh Gordon is, in my opinion, better than Des Bryant at this point. If he's not available, then that doesn't help you. By the way, Cleveland opens with the Steelers at home. Then they go to the Saints. Yeah, they got a rough start. Then they have the jets. Then they go to the Raiders, and then the Ravens, then the Chargers. Yeah.

All right, finally, the Celtics might be too deep. All five regular season starters in Kyrie, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Al Horford, and Aaron Bain's return. So does Terry Rozier, so does Gordon Hayward, so does Marcus Smart. And here's Brad Stevens talking about that challenge. For me, it's more about we have a unique thing, and I think we all have to recognize that. You know, the starting thing, the finishing thing, and everything else,

we're going to have different lineups out there, and everybody's going to get an opportunity and lots of opportunities to make an impact. We'll just do it like we've always done it. You know, I don't, Marcus Smart's come off the bench for two years, and I've never considered Marcus Smart to be a non-starter. You know, I just think that you, you know,

we're fortunate enough on our team that we've got, you know, eight, nine, maybe ten guys that are starters. And so we'll figure that out as the time comes. It sounds like an exaggeration, but he's not really wrong about having nine to ten guys it could be starters. Yeah, he is. Look at this list.

Terry Rozier thing is ridiculous. Go through the list of playoff teams. Tell me who Terry Rozier starts for. He was their fourth guard last year. He had great opportunities. He performed well at home until last couple games against Cleveland. You know, Water kind of found its level on the road. He's a really good bench players.

A good young player was going to get better. If Marcus Smart could have been a starter elsewhere, he would have taken a contract to be a starter elsewhere. He can't. The league is determined he's a backup, and they played in backups money. That's it. Period. And he's just, like, Brad's saying the right things because that's who Brad is.

But those guys are bench players for a reason. So. Well, either way, it's a good problem to have. These are really, really good problems to have. That's Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News.

All right, let's link up with Peter King from NBC Sports. Kind of have to spend some time of this here Monday in The Herd. And Peter, everyone's talking about these rookie quarterback. rookie quarterbacks. Let's start with Sam Donald, who of course tore it up for the New York Jets. And look, I started by saying, no one that I know in football thought their trade

was a smart trade. But didn't they luck into getting Sam Donald, who was many people's number one quarterback prospect at the third pick? Well, I don't know, Doug. I mean, I thought that Baker Mayfield was the best quarterback in this crop. And this was a very beauty in the, beauties in the eye of the beholder draft for quarterbacks. There's some people, if he gave him the first pick, they would have taken Josh Allen.

Some would have taken Mayfield. Some would have taken Darnold. Maybe some, although I don't know who would have taken Josh Rosen. And to me, when I look at this quarterback draft, I kind of look at, you look at the history of quarterbacks being drafted. Sam Darnock. it's almost 50-50, whether he's going to succeed or fail. And so many of the factors are beyond his control. So I don't look at this and say, man, the Jets got lucky in getting Darnold. You might look at it in five years and say, oh, my God, the Jets blew it by not taking Josh Allen.

Let me ask you about these rookie quarterbacks. Who's the most likely to start the soonest? Oh, my gut feeling is probably Josh Allen. and he seems to have the clearest path to starterdom in Buffalo. But I think Donald, if Donald's the best guy, especially in the third preseason game, I think he's got a very good chance to start. The thing I like about Allen early on is that, you know, I was in their camp, and I talked to general manager Brandon Bean, and he goes,

because he knows that everybody thinks, hey, take your time with Josh Allen. He played at Wyoming, was not an accurate guy. Make sure he is all there before you use them. And he doesn't feel that way at all. He said, we are playing the best guy to win opening day. So, you know, that's a little bit of a different attitude than you have in Cleveland. And quite frankly, you have in Arizona right now with Josh Rosen. All right.

Let's go to Cleveland because they are interesting. You have John Dorsey who comes from Kansas City. Peter King joining us from NBC Sports. Doug Gottlievin for calling here on the herd on Fox Sports Radio Fox Sports 1. So Dorsey comes over from Kansas City. where couldn't have worked out any better for them, right? Get to the playoffs with Alex Smith. Mahomes plays the preseason, plays week 17.

He's now the guy. One year later, he redshirted essentially a season. He's ready to go. I think that's what Dorsey would like to do. And he has Tyrod Taylor who led the bills to the playoffs even after they benched him. But it's different when you have Baker. Baker seems to be ready to play. You said you thought he was the best quarterback of the class.

And he's the number one overall pick. and they need hope in Cleveland. What do you think Cleveland ultimately does? They start Tyrod Taylor opening day, and then as the season goes on, they just see, A, if Mayfield is ready, he's a precocious guy, and see if he's ready.

And then I think the other part of this is, you know, so two weeks ago today, I'm in Brown's camp, and I ask Hugh Jackson about Mayfield, and I didn't even say, so are you sticking with you? decision. He just volunteered this. He goes, Peter, I am not changing my mind on the quarterback. Tyrod Taylor is starting and someday Baker Mayfield is going to thank me for this. And, you know,

Doug, I go back to 2003 and look at the redshirt year that Carson Palmer had. And Carson Palmer really was the better for that, even coming out of USC. So I think the majority of this season, That's my gut feeling. Baker Mayfield will not be the quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. Okay. Will Des Bryant be a wider seer for the Cleveland Browns? Boy, when I was there, people really poo-poohed that to me. Now, I mean, I guess I would just ask this question.

Do you want to bring an incendiary guy into a place that is essentially you're trying to get the chemistry right? you're trying to get it right. You know, I'm at Oxnard today at the Cowboys. I think the Cowboys would tell you that, you know, at times this was an explosive guy as much off the field as on. And he was not a great player the last two years. So, I mean, to me, I don't think it would be a terrible move for the Browns to do that, but I certainly don't think it's a fate of complete.

You mentioned that you're in Cowboys camp. I was up there about a week ago. and the thing that struck me is, one, how the kind of the younger group had now kind of taken over. The old guard for the most part is gone, which leads a little bit of a leadership void, even if Doc is the leader, he's not as vocal leaders as some in the past.

But I looked at that wide receiver core. You lose Witten, you lose DES, and there really is no number one. There's a bunch of twos and threes. And I get that they feel like, hey, we're going to make you have to load up to stop Zeke, and that's going to create one-on-one. But do they have the weapons to create space for DAC to be able to put balls into windows?

He's not crazy accurate. He wasn't throwing guys open last year, and it doesn't feel like they have guys that demand a double team. I guess I'm wondering your thoughts in that wide receiving core and combined with the tight end core. This place reminds me an awful lot of San Francisco. I was at the 49ers yesterday. You've got one guy in the tight end and wide receiver core, Mark, Mark, Keith Goodwin, who I think can be probably a special player. And other than that, you have got to find these guys.

You've got to invent these guys. And that's why I think especially, I think the Jason Witten loss here is a significant loss. And I'm not saying they don't have guys to replace them. But I think, Doug, in a time like this, now we're going to see how good a teaching staff Jason Garrett has assembled. I think that's vitally important for the 2018 Cowboys, not only to get your quarterback back on track and make sure he's more like 2017 or 16 than he was 17,

but to basically make sure that all of these guys in your receiving core and it tight end, you know, get on the same page and get good chemistry with Dak Prescott from opening day on. Odd Shark has the Packers as the most likely destination after October for Khalil Mack. He's still not in camp with the Raiders. There was limited, if any, communication between he and John Gruden up to this point.

What's your feel on how that goes down in Oakland? I can't believe that Mark Davis would either approve of the trade of Kalil Mack or trade him himself. That would be a nightmare scenario. You do not trade a potential Hall of Fame pass rusher as he enters his prime. It's you've got to pay him, period. The cap keeps going up and you've got to be able to do business in this league. If you admit fail, if you, if you trade, uh, Kaleo Mack in my opinion, you're admitting that you can't do business in the modern NFL. And if you can't do that,

in my opinion, then Mark Davis should get a partner, uh, a deep pocketed partner who's going to help him with things like the signing bonus for guys, you have to get paid. publicly the new helmet rule the new contact rule with the top with the crown of the helmet is being panned people don't like it it's there's flags everywhere and you almost feel like you watch the cardinals game against the the chargers you can't even make a legal tackle anymore privately what are nflb people saying about how this rule is being used i ran into jukovsky tarred hard-hitting safety for the 49ers yesterday at 49er camp and i was talking to him about it And he goes, and this is cliche, but I can tell you a lot of defensive players feel this way.

He said, it looks like it's turning into flag football or two-hand touch. And I think a lot of people fear that. Doug, I think this is a good and admirable attempt by the NFL. I really, really do. I think it has to be done. I think you have to say to the moms and dads of America, send your kids to play football, we're going to make it safe or as safe as we can make it. do I think it's going to have some debacle type effects absolutely unequivocally.

Do I think they should be doing this? I still do. I might change my mind after four or five weeks, but this has to be done for the future of the game. Peter, I could not agree with you more. Let me let you go with this. Kirk Cousins being called a savior. I look at it, and I think we talk about so many other teams, so many other interesting teams. Here's the team got to the NSC championship game with.

arguably their third quarterback and with a backup running Mac. Now they got Dalvin Cookback and they got Kirk Cousins, who did a lot with a little in Washington. The Vikings, a team that people should think the most of, even in that NFC North, even with the healthy Aaron Rogers. I think they're the best team in the NFC North, but again, we've never seen Kirk Cousins play winning great football in January. You know, he's got to prove that he can win playoff games.

and play very well in playoff games. He hasn't done it. I mean, it's easy to make statements in August. And I really like Kirk Cousins for a lot of reasons in, you know, mostly football ones. But he's got to do it. This is not having to do with liking and guys' personality or or commanding the huddle or whatever. You've got to play well in January for that contract to be justified. Peter, great stuff as always. Thanks so much for stepping away from Cowboys camp for a second. I know you've got a bunch of interviews to do. We appreciate you being our guest in the heard. My pleasure, Doug. Thank you. The great Peter King from NBC Sports, kind enough to spend some time with us here in the herd. I just, look, while we're on TV, I truly believe that those two hits.

What Peter said is, is accurate. And we can be in denial of it because we think it's ruining the sport and current NFL players and, you know, you're making it a two-hand touch. Like, no, you're not. When I started playing football and it was called Junior All-American in Orange. I was in the on the Raiders and the Packers, the Cowboys, and the Packers. And we were taught, as is almost out of any football players, see what you hit, right? See what you hit. Now, are you going to perfect it? Are they going to throw a flag when a guy does perform a perfect?

Sure. They're going to mess it up. They call a hold sometimes they shouldn't. They call pass interference sometimes they shouldn't. But if your reaction wasn't one of sad, and almost sickness when Ryan Shazir is getting taken out the field last year, some wrong with you. And if you saw the end of the Vikings game against the Saints and you realize how many

young players drop their head and don't see what they're hitting, that's what led the Vikings to scoring an incredible comeback touchdown in Hill, Mary, when the game should have been over. See what you hit. That's what the NFL is saying for better or for worse. All right. Coming up next. aren't supposed to admit that they're scared of anything, but I saw something this weekend that scared the hell out of me.

I'll tell you what it is. I'm upcoming next. Welcome into the herd. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin Cowherd, along with the lovely and talented Joy Taylor, whose next podcast will drop tomorrow night, she tells us. Excited about that. Can't wait to listen to that.

A Wednesday when I'm driving in. Listen, we've talked Tiger. We've talked Baker. We've talked Sam Donald. We've talked a little Josh Rosen. haven't talked really about Mello signing with the Rockets, but I mean... We kind of knew that was happening. Kind of knew that was happening.

But it is now official. It is now official. Mello says, or reportedly through Adrian Worgianowski, you'll be willing to accept a roll off the bench. Everyone says they're willing to accept a roll off the bench until you get to the end of a playoff series. And you're watching P.J. Tucker play. You're watching Eric Gordon play.

You're watching Chris Paul play. You're watching James Harden play. you're watching Clint Capella play, and you're sitting there with a towel. Like, that sounds good until that moment actually happens. We'll see. If he accepts the roll on the bench, he'd be a great weapon. Great weapon as a score off the bench. We've covered a lot of things, but we save the best for last.

It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope, we grind to the very last segment. It's time for best for last. So I saw this viral video on Twitter yesterday. it's Rodrigo Kosha, who's a famous big wave surfer. This was actually in November of last year, but has now been certified, certified as the Guinness Book of World Records confirmed. He now holds the record for riding the biggest wave ever.

That's 80 feet. I saw this, I think, this morning. Oh, my gosh! It's remarkable, really. It's remarkable. It's ridiculous. and it's also something I would never do. So here's what I came up with and you feel free to add your own in if you'd like.

The five sports that I would never try. Number five. Big wave surfing. Have you done little wave surfing? Yes. I live in Newport Beach, California. And you go out there and every kid claims like, oh, dad, you see that wave I caught? My son serves.

That was five or six feet. Like it's really one. Like you see a 10 footer You go down There's a place called the wedge In Newport Beach You go down and see a 10 foot You're like

I will never go in a 10 footer 80 feet high And there's no This is not one of those things That you can fake Right Like a marathon You can walk the marathon

Don't give me wrong I don't want to do a marathon But if I had to I could just walk You know five hours later I'd end up getting there It's just about will You can't fake that

You get up there You can't bail out on the wave You could die Number four The giant slalom. Giant solom. I like skiing. Colin loves skiing.

I get done skiing once or twice. I'm like, all right, what's next? I do not like skiing. The giants, well, the drinking after skiing is pretty good. And the skiing itself is pretty cool. Just people start going like double black diamond. At any moment you could possibly die, that kind of takes the fun out of it. Okay, the giant solemn, you go down about 25, 30 miles an hour.

The course drops between 250 and 450 meters. from top to bottom. It is insane. And you look at some of these crashes, and those are the best riders in the world. I was trying to figure out whether it was the moguls or the slalom. I went with the slalom

because I think the moguls would be more painful, but if you could die more easily. Number three. Bull riding. I've ridden horses. I've petted cows. You've pet cows. I've seen bull riders.

That is no joke, right? No joke. Yeah, I'm off that. Those are ferocious two-ton beasts that all they want to do is kick the hell out of whoever's on their back for whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever made them upset. Bull riding, no design. Don't they, like, poke them? Allegedly, reportedly, there's ways to get them to get them to buck. Number two.

Would never get in mixed martial arts. No thanks. See, there's a difference. Like, boxing, I do feel like you could run. You could hug. and worst case scenario you get knocked out, you don't remember it. The thing with mixed martial arts is, in addition to the arm bar, by the time you tap out and you think your arm's going to be broken,

it's already broken, and then you end up with a broken arm. Like, I just feel, I'm college wrestlers I have so much respect for because there's three things that will survive a nuclear holocaust, cockroaches, twinkies, and wrestlers. They're just the biggest badasses on Earth, and I want no part of them. They occupy an octagon as professionals. No thanks.

Number one. And I would never get up on the 10 meter high dive. That's the 30 feet above. What? How is this your number one? Well, they're doing, that's the springboard. I'm talking the super, super high one. The cement one.

You could slip and fall and fall in the water. You're falling in a giant pool. Yeah, here's the problem. I can't actually dive. So if I do, I have to need a pencil thing. But if you give me an option out of all those that you just listed, that is easily the safest and non-scarious. Oh, I disagree. You could Greg Lugana sit and hit your head.

All you have to do is just walk and jump straight. But then you have to land. Land in water. Yeah, it's not soft and fluffy. This is not landing on the cloud. I don't think it's soft and fluffy. But, I mean, what do you? You have way less potential of getting hurt doing that.

The big thing is I can't dive. And so in addition to my fear of falling from heights, it would also be the fact that I can't dive would be on full display. All right. Joy Taylor, her pod drops tomorrow. She'll be back with me. I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. We'll hope we don't get fire.

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