The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Tom Brady, Sean Payton, Cowboys, and Jeanie Buss

Episode Date: January 25, 2019

Filling in for Colin, Doug Gottlieb explains what New England Patriots QB Tom Brady should do if he wins his 6th Super Bowl, why the Dallas Cowboys might be interested in New Orleans Saints HC Sean Payton, and his thoughts on the recent comments made by Los Angeles Lakers owner Jeanie Buss. Guests include Eric Mangini. Chris Broussard, Ray Mancini, and T. J. Houshmandzadeh. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headlines. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season, and I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood. That's how personal it got.

Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Herd.

Now let's get this party started. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. Alongside Joy Taylor, who's going Sands Glasses today, I always tuning to see the glasses. Some days we've got to go Sands Glasses. Someday Sands Glasses.

Beautiful sunny day in Southern California. I'm off to the Super Bowl. Joy and Colin get to hang out. here in sunny Los Angeles. Welcome in. We got an outstanding show for you. Former Patriot assistant and head coach in Nashvilleville League, the Mangenius. Eric Mangini

will join us upcoming this hour. So will Chris Broussard. So will T.J. Hushmanzada. So will Catino Mobley. And Ray Bumum Mancini will join us live here on set. What a show. Okay. So next week, Super Bowl week, and we still continue to react

to championship weekend. The Saints. everyone else seems to be on to Atlanta, but the Saints are throwing lawsuits and asking for second and third apologies from the NFL for one missed call. But I'm looking ahead at the possibility of the last time we see number 12. Now, full disclosure, I changed my vote on Monday. I've sat in this seat before. I have my own show, three to six Eastern time, 12 to three Pacific Falls call and show. Whether it's that show or this show, whether it's this network or other networks,

I previously believed, and I still on some level, believe that Aaron Rogers checks every box in terms of athleticism, armed talent, ability to make plays in the clutch, ability to extend the pocket, play through injury, lead inferior teams to superior results. But what I saw Sunday in Kansas City against a really good defensive line and against an incredible offense where you got to keep scoring because they're going to start scoring. What I saw the weekend before when they demolished the Chargers. What I saw in the Super Bowl last year, where they didn't punt, what I saw in the Super Bowl before that, where they came from 28 to 3 down for the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history. All right. I'm changing my vote. I announced on my show, I announced on a Cullen show.

That's the best quarterback I've ever seen. Because part of what makes being a great quarterback is not, if you check every box, as if you can succeed in spite of the boxes you don't check. And I don't necessarily want him to retire. Like, you don't want to see greatness go away? And I understand, fully understand, that there is nothing in his life, nothing in his life,

which will ever fulfill him. Look, I love my kids. I love my wife. I love my family. And Tom Brady, much like all these other quarterbacks, is going to be a success in business and in life outside of football. but nothing will feel the same as being under behind center in front of 80,000 people,

in front of 100 million people watching you, and walking into that locker room afterwards, leading 46 men and coaches into battle, have them all eyes on you, believing in you, and you telling them they can do it, everybody else tell them they can't, and you're doing it, and then looking at you like you're a God. You're nothing like that.

Like, I understand why especially quarterbacks, don't want to retire. Like, I get it. It is way more, winning is a more powerful drug than anything else that's ever been created, including the illicit kinds.

Because you want more, you want more, you want more. But there does come a point in time for perspective. Right? Like, I think that the greatness of Tom Brady was,

they won even though he didn't play particularly well. Right? Like, let's not get it twisted. He threw two picks, which were both on him, and then threw a third one. I don't know if you put it on Gronk or on him, 50, 50, split, whatever. Three interceptions and a championship game on the road, that's not good football. He knows it.

And the game plan really in the first half was not to emphasize the greatness of Tom Brady was to run the football. And I know he overcame three third and tens. And I know they had a great drive in overtime where Kansas City never got the ball back. I'm not disputing how awesome he is. just told you I changed my vote, which, by the way, you're allowed to do. Like, like Rob Parker, you're allowed to take it out. I was wrong. Right. You're around to go, like, I was wrong. It's okay. Happens all the time. You're allowed to go, I was wrong.

My bad. I didn't think Steph Curry would be an all-star, let alone a legend. I was wrong. Happens. It's the percentage of times it happens when people stop listening and maybe the inability to admit when you're wrong about things. Tom Brady's proven many people wrong. But I was watching that game and I was realizing how close they came to losing it. I'm watching the post-game reaction. I don't know if you've guys seen this footage, but there's footage now Tom Brady walking in the locker room, shaking hands and hugging all his teammates.

And there's a lot of cursing, which will bleep out. But he's hugging guys, and he's going unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Can you believe it? Unbelievable. Take a listen. Maybe.

Unbelievable. Love you, man. Played your outside. Unbelievable. He just keeps going around. Unbelievable. You were great. Unbelievable.

Do you know why it was unbelievable? Because it was. Do you know why people said they didn't have good skill position players? Because they don't. I mean, Rob Grancowski runs like Tom Brady. And Tom Brady, a couple throws there were more like Rob Grunkowski throwing the football. And then you think of it. They started off as underdardom.

dogs against the Rams. And if you have the, if you're old enough, you remember the Rams were the greatest show on turf. They had lit up the NFL for two years and they had Hall of Famers all over. They had the best left tackle in the league. They had a quarterback who was a perfect fit in Kurt Warner for their system. They had Marshall Falk arguably the best running back in the history of the NFL. If you really look at Marshall Falk, he's a groundbreaker in terms of ability to run it and and then catch it out of the backfield. Hell, Tori Holt should be in the Hall of Fame. So said Isaac Bruce.

I kind of go through it. They had everything. And if you go back to that Super Bowl, you remember that that was back when they introduced each individual player. And now for the L.A. Ram... Back to the St. Louis Rams. Kurt Warner. Now it's every guy.

And then it was the New England Patriots who were the first team to go, no, no, no. Just say Patriots. We're going out. Like, no, we want to introduce, recognize each. No, no, no, no. Just say patriots will run out. And they all come out. And it was an unbelievable underdog story. Like Tom Brady wasn't supposed to be the quarterback. Drew Bledsoe was. They hid his lack of experience. They hid some of his weaknesses and he still had the ability.

And they probably weren't supposed to be there. Why? Because the Raiders were the better football team, if not for the tuck rule. But they won anyway, because that's part of the lore, the legacy, the aura. That's part of the story of Tom Brady. is that he can take his 46 and beat your 46 and then switch at halftime and take your 46 and beat their 46. Same thing with Belichick. But they've been this close several times to the whole thing falling apart. And Grunk feels like he's done.

And though he can be replaced, that doesn't mean he's replace. And Brady feels like there's some miles an hour off that fastball. The league eventually is going to catch you. And I just think that this is one of those if you win. You can't do it if you lose. But the thing that Hollywood tries to simulate is what sports actually has, which is the happy ending. It does exist. John L.Way.

Hell, Peyton Manning couldn't throw a football. It wasn't particularly good in the Super Bowl. But they won anyway because the defense was awesome. The special teams was good. And they found away. and you're right off into the sunset. Michael Jordan, forget the Wizards thing. Michael Jordan holding the follow through in Utah.

Like these things do actually exist. And for Tom Brady, who will go down as arguably the greatest athlete, right, greatest athlete does not mean greatest having the pure amount of athleticism, but greatest athlete, in terms of most accomplished, most successful, most prolific when it matters the most, or how it matters the most, which is when the buzzer sounds, does your team have more points than the other?

Because if you think scoreboard doesn't matter, why the hell do we have it up there, right? They don't award gold medals to people who come in second or third or fourth. You got a chance to go full circle. Start against the Rams, a team that probably didn't belong, wasn't the best team in the AFC

could end against the Rams. Again, I don't want to chase anybody off into the sunset, but and I'm not defending Rob Parker. Dude, you're wrong. Take the L. He did it again.

But there's a reason that Tom Brady walked around and said unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable. At least 30 times he said it to his own teammates. You know why? Because it really is unbelievable that he's here, that they've accomplished this again. I know Belichick will be back. I know they'll figure out a way. I know the jets

aren't close. I know the bills aren't close. I know the dolphins aren't close. But Ravens, Steelers, Chiefs, Chargers, Colts, they're all younger. They're all hungry. They all want what you have. And you were this close to not having it to begin with. There does come a point in time which you can have the storybook ending, which Hollywood tries to create, tries to, but only sports actually has. It's the only place where this actually exists, where there really is a Cinderella story that comes through and wins at the end.

Or a longtime great who Derek Jeter, right, gets a, gets a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a walk off in his last at bat at Yankee Stadium. Like, that only happens in sports. And Brady is nine days away from potentially having the greatest ending in the recent future of football and maybe the greatest ending ever in the history of football. Yes, Elway won two championships and won his last, but to win six and to win your last one and to win your last one against the team you beat the first time. and to do it in remarkable fashion.

Every sentence needs a period. And your choice is continue to run the risk of a Brett Fav-like season in Minnesota, right? Like we do remember that Brett Favreve came back to Minnesota, through the interception in the Superdome. Remember the Vikings announcer? How could he do that? He's Brett Farr, this is what he does. Risk reward guy.

But then Chile was his head coach. He sent three guys down to a private plane. They bring him back. He's got that dusty old Nike hat. You know, he gets off the tractor, gets out the plane. All right, we'll do it again. How'd that work out? Disaster.

He lost his starting streak. The dome in Minnesota literally collapsed. Not figuratively, literally collapsed. That's how bad his final year was. and the Patriots and the NFL have a mantra, which is better a year or too early than a year too late. And if you're 12, after, by your own estimation, an unbelievable win on the road in Kansas City.

If you back that up against the L.A. Rams in Atlanta on Sunday, why not just call it a day? Six rings is more than anybody. never fathom. Nine Super Bowls is more years than most players will ever contemplate playing in the National Football League. I think Brady should walk away if he wins it. All right, coming up next, I'm going to tell you why Sean Payton to the Dallas Cowboys, which has been rumored and hasn't been dispelled by either side, would be a slam dunk for Sean Payton. That's upcoming next in The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD, weekdays and noon Eastern 9.5.

AM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsClyce brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsClyce on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way. with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes

when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and loss. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? this is Clifford Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, the Clivert Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker who hops up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Brett, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clivert show. on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast, Point Game is about defying the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reid. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by,

like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the bar. Like, you go through a training camp with that Isaiah, you figure it out. real quick. Get your ass up and down the court and you're going to get the ball.

So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The 2019 NHL All-Star Games Saturday 8 p.m. Eastern in San Jose is our Discover key matchup. Brought you by Discover. Get your free credit scorecard today. Even if you're not a Discover customer, it includes your FICO credit score and checking your scorecard won't hurt your credit. Learn more at Discover.com slash credit scorecard. Limitations apply. alongside Joy Taylor. We'll get to us, we'll get us the news in a moment.

I'm Doug Gottlieb, feeling in for Colin. This is the herd Fox Sports Radio. Fox Sports One, IHeart Radio app. Eric Mangini will join us in a moment. We'll get his take on what went so right for the Patriots, what went so wrong for Kansas City.

Was that, did Bob Sutton deserve to lose his job? Or is it simply Tom Brady showing why he's Tom Brady? And we'll get to. the potential game plans for the upcoming Super Bowl. A lot to get to with the man genius. There are various reports about interest between the Dallas Cowboys and Sean Peyton. Peyton, of course, came to the Saints from the Cowboys where he was a member and a play caller

for Bill Parcells. And the interesting part about these reports is neither side has denied it. not that denials or even non-denial denials will take us off the scent because we've seen enough denials. You know, Nick Saban, how many times I'll have to say this? I'm not going to be the head coach in Alabama, right? How many times you have to deny it? We're like, you're does come to a point. You were like, look, I don't believe anything anybody says.

But the fact that no one has said anything that Jerry Jones, who loves to do his interviews, hasn't said, Jason Garrett is my coach. And there's no Sean Peyton coming this way. Like nothing. We have heard nothing. So let's just offer up the possibility, right? Would you do it for Sean Payton? Knowing that Jerry's going to be a meddler, right?

That's knowing Jerry's going to be a meddler. As opposed to what he has in New Orleans where his GM in New Orleans is also the GM of the Pelicans. Not really making decisions. It's more him and Jeff Ireland who's doing a great. Jeff Ireland was kind of a disaster in Miami as a general manager. But as a player personnel guy, they've done a very nice job. Everybody can play. They've done a nice job in New Orleans of putting together a young, active defense

and getting him skilled position players, obviously like an Alvin Camaro and a Michael Thomas. But man, Drew Reason looks so good. Remember, Drew Brees runs the benefit of playing with arguably the best caller, the play caller the last 25 years in football. That's Sean Payton's in that. Before there was McVeigh, there was Sean Payton. They're the same guy. and he plays in a dome.

And it should be pointed out that this year the Saints played against the complete disaster of a division, right? I mean, Atlanta's so bad that everybody got fired and everybody was hurt. Carolina, Cam Newton had shoulder surgery yesterday. Couldn't throw a football. After a hot start, suddenly couldn't throw a football.

And their defense was so bad, everybody got fired. And everybody got fired in Tampa. That division was trash, and it will not be trash for long because you still have Matt Ryan, you still have Cam Newton. And if there's anybody who can fix, anybody who can fix Tampa and fix James, it's Bruce Arias. That's what he does. He fixes the quarterback. So I think the division's going to be, we'll see, but it feels like it's going to be remarkably better.

And Drew Brees was bad at the end. He just ran out of steam. Same offense, same play caller. Hell, they even got Ted Ginn back. Well, they didn't have Ted Ginn. They got Ted Ginn back. Like the past completion to Ted Ginn that should have set up the game-winning touch. touchdown if the, that was, that should have been intercepted. It floated and he got fooled. That should have been picked off.

Heck, even the defensive pass interference that wasn't called that New Orleans is going to forever complain about, right? Like New Orleans continued to complain about the defensive pass interference is going to be like your wife complained about that thing you did five years ago at the family cookout. I can't believe you said that thing and she's going to keep bringing. it up. That's new one. I was like, dude, the defensive pass interference is going to be Seahawk guy talking about not handing the ball to Marshawn Lynch in the Super Bowl. You're not

wrong, but we're all so tired of hearing about it already. But how about this part? It wasn't a good pass. One, it wasn't open. Two, you got to throw it to the outside shoulder. If you play the ball, that's, and Drew Brees threw a ground ball on first down. They'd be better off taking three knees, kicking a field goal than what Michael Tommy checks out of a run plate, throws us to Michael Thomas and unless Michael Thomas's shoelaces can catch a football, that was a bad pass. So you got a quarterback who, like all these

guys. They get older. Even in a dome where you can hide some lack of arm strength. You can't hide the Drew Breeze thing for much longer. It's the Saints. The division's going to be better. Or you could go coach the Cowboys who's, they don't have to give DAC a new contract.

They got an elite running back and elite offensive line. They got a pretty good defense. And what's the only thing missing from the Cowboys? What's the only thing? Well, you could say, like, I'm not a huge DAC guy. I think he's good. He thinks he's, but play caller. All we need is a guy who knows how to draw him up in the dirt. And if you ask people who played against New Orleans, we're like, you know, Drew's not that good anymore, but he's really bright. And they have one wide receiver and they have one hybrid running back. And that's kind of it. And they dominated. the league. Why? Because of that guy.

Sean Payton's that good. Imagine if you put them with good younger players and a younger quarterback. I mean obviously you have to deal with the meddling owner, but couldn't this be the moment to which you go into Jerry and go, Jerry, you've tried it your

way since Jimmy Johnson left and it didn't work. Do it my way. You guys did a good job, getting good talent. All right, you built it up. Let me take it from here. Let me take it to that next step. I don't know if I'm Sean Payton, I don't think it's a crazy idea. I think it's one you absolutely have to have to think about.

It feels like you topped out New Orleans. Remember, when he took over New Orleans, that was after Katrina, but people forget the Saints were the Browns for 20 years. Like Aaron Brooks won one playoff game, right? But outside of that, like, they were awful. It was a bad franchise. And even though they've gone through three consecutive bad years where they had the worst defenses in football and they can blame it on Bounty Gate, whatever they want, the point is, feels like you topped out over there. Why not consider a new home?

Here's Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, so another day, another report about Antonio Brown, Mike Tomlin, and the Pittsburgh Steelers. According to a new ESPN report from Jeremy Fowler, Tomlin has a. apparently been telling players that he'll tolerate Brown's antics as long as he's producing at an all-pro level. A former Steelers player said Tomlin essentially told the group, we'll tolerate it now because of what he brings to the field, but the minute production stops, you don't overlook it.

This has been brewing for years. It's just now coming to the surface, and it's probably over. I'm going to go ahead and say this isn't the best way to manage a player. We're just going to let you do whatever you want and act however you want and treat everyone however you want. And then when you finally start to trail off in production, we'll let you go, and whatever carnage is left, by the way, we'll figure it out. It feels like you start this process at the beginning before you give him the big contract.

Yes. It doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't, but it's the reality, honestly, I think it's the reality of the contract. I mean, there's no, when the owner comes out and says, doesn't see much possibility of him coming back, and now all of a sudden they seem to be changing

their tune, it feels like they talk to the money guys, to the salary cap guys, And they were like, you got to make this work. You're going to have to make this work, you know? I mean, I still feel like there's a possibility they all get in a room together and hash it out. I mean, it's not unheard of that you figure things out. It just seems like all this was avoidable. Like, from all accounts, this wasn't who he was before he was, like, at the beginning, beginning of his career.

Maybe not right before he was paid. But at the beginning of his career, this didn't seem to be his personality. And it's become this because of stardom, which happens. Yes. And I'm not saying Antonio Brown is a bad guy. either. It's just the situation has fallen apart in Pittsburgh, and it's probably time for everyone to move on. Sometimes you just overstay you're welcome, and the situation is not right for you. I just feel like a lot of this falls on Mike Tomlin. Like, I know everyone can say,

oh, well, Antonio Brown doesn't have to act this way. But Mike Tomlin created the culture that is the Pittsburgh Steelers in this particular state that they're in. Yes, I would also say that the contract created this culture. Like, this is really bad for, remember, the Steelers forever, and you know this is better than anybody, right? Is that, you know, that the Steelers Forever had drawn a hard line and not paid anybody. Right. And like, this was the one guy they relented to, and now it's coming back to hunt them. And so to me, if I'm a stealer, I'm like, look, between the Levion thing and this thing,

and I know they're different, but the idea that guys that are superstars, talent-wise, one gets the contract he's always wanted and gets the guarantees that he'll be a stealer. Like, that's what this has. It's impossible to trade him because $21 million in a cap hit is a ridiculous, percent for one player. It is for this year. The way that his contract is structured, if they trade him,

it won't affect him for the next two years. It's obviously all these contracts are very complicated. But they're going to take a loss either way, because not only are they losing the money, they're losing Antonio Brown. Right. It's doubly punitive. Right.

It's not like they're trying to get rid of a player and they're not going to get good value for him in return. Not going to get appropriate value. And they don't have Levy on Bell either. Outside of that, and you have how many years left of Ben Rothberger? You can say that, you know, they're trying to say, well, he's just in a,

his prime like okay okay right so say you have two or three more years of him you lose antonio brown and that cap space and levion bell for a year that almost feels like a lost year so it kills anyone's desire to hey i want to reset the market and get a big contract great look what happened the last time we did it all right so cam newman went under the knife yesterday for his second shoulder surgery in three years the panthers announced that he went under an arthroscopic procedure on his right shoulder NFL networks mike gropolo reported that this is not major surgery for Cam, but Carolina is reluctant to put a time frame on his recovery. He missed the final two games of the season with shoulder soreness, and, you know, he also

had this surgery on the same shoulder on a torn rotator cuff in March of 2017. Okay, I'm not a doctor. I didn't stay at a Holiday Express, but I'm going to offer up a thought here, okay? The team surgeon performed this surgery, and I'm not trying to take away from team surgeons, but if it's a major shoulder injury, you go to Dr. James Andrews. You know, it's a short little flight. Hell, you can even drive there from Charlotte.

But if it's a minor procedure, you have the team doctor do it. It's fine. It feels like this is a minor procedure. It did look like there's a major problem because he couldn't throw a football. This is a guy with a major cannon for an arm. But just a guess, without knowing

what's going on inside his shoulder, if it was a major deal, you go to the best of the best of the best, because you're Cam Newton and you can't replace that shoulder. If it's just a little cleanup or some sort of impingement, you have the team doctor doing, which is what they did. I also am not a doctor.

However, when you have the glasses on, you could pass for one. When I have the glasses on, I look like a doctor. Yes. Now, right now I just look like a morticia from out of his family. I don't know what to make of Cam Newton. And I'm not saying he's injury prone because that's not really the way that I look at it. But I just, I.

He plays. He's the biggest, baddest, toughest, dude, but the way in which he's played football where he has to run it to be effective is just, it just has a short shelf life. He's just so inconsistent, and I feel like the league is so much better when Cam Newton is playing at a high level because he is just

an electric player and he's a star. Yes, but when you're consistently inconsistent, you're inconsistent. That's who you are. Right? I mean, yes. I just, I root for Cam Newton because of that, because I root for content, and he's great for that. It's just frustrating that he is so inconsistent.

And finally, the NBA all-star game starters were announced last night. LeBron and Janus are the team captains. And with the starters also come some snubs. Despite averaging a career high in points, rebounds, assists, and steals. Anthony Davis was not named a starter. Instead, Paul George locked up the third front court spot in the West. Those are the starters for the West.

And obviously, All-Star weekend is February 15 and 17. And they're going to do the draft on February 7th. Which I'm into. Which I'm into. Because whoever the last guy taken, I mean, you don't ever hear the end. of it. Even though you're the last All-Star, you're still an All-Star, whoever the last- That's really why- I... I can't remember if you and I had this conversation or me and Colin had it. But I... Well, it is kind of contradictory what I just said is I root for content, because

it is great content. I guess maybe it's coming from a player's side. I feel like showing the draft and making that public takes away a little bit of the excitement of being an All-Star. Like, it doesn't mean... No question. It doesn't mean anything that you're the last last player selected. But it's like, I feel like this is a little bit of the last player selected. But it's like I feel like this is an honor. And not everybody makes multiple all-star teams. So it's something that should be like, awesome. I'm an all-star.

That's it. Not, okay, now I'm going into the all-star draft. I'm the last guy picked and it's just going to be this conversation forever and ever. You know what they call the person who graduates last from medical school? Doctor. That's Joey Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by.

The Heard Lye News. He's been a head coach for the Cleveland Browns and the New York. Jets and of course a longtime assistant with the Pats. He's our mangenius. He's Eric Mangini. He joins us here on the show in the herd. Morning. Eric, you and I talked on my show yesterday and you said there's no way Tom Brady retires.

So I'm not asking you, will he? I'm asking you, should he? I mean, think about how close they came to not being here. Think about the fact that probably don't have Gronk next year. Maybe he comes back and obviously he's bought into the idea. of being, but the league seems to be getting close to

figuring them out, even if they can't figure them out in January. And he's not the same as he once was. He just not, he didn't play great football. He still found a way. I mean, you start by being the Rams, you end by being the Rams, when is enough enough? Should, if he was asking you, look, my wife's been on me

to be retired for years, should he? No, I don't think he should. And when you hear Tom talk, someone asked him what ring was his favorite, and he said the next one. And I really believe that's his approach. And to say that he's not playing at a high level, I don't think that's true.

We just were talking about Pittsburgh and they lose Levi-on-Bell, they lose Antonio Brown, the sky's falling. Every single year, the Patriots are losing someone. It's Brandon Cooks. It's Nate Soldier. It's take your pick. And somebody else comes in. The thing that Tom is that makes him unique is he's a force multiplier.

So if you go to New England and you do what you're supposed to do and you're in the right spot, you're going to get the ball. You're going to have a chance to be really successful, and he allows that to happen. And it's not about one player or one piece. It's about his ability to put those pieces together. And then you've got Josh McDaniels.

He's coming back. That's huge. Dante Scarnacki, the offensive line coach, who should get the MVP trophy if New England wins a Super Bowl. It looks like he's coming back too. Bill comes back. You've got that continuity.

why not keep resetting the bar of what greatness is? I want to ask you about offensive line play because I think their defensive line was way better than we expected, and I know a lot of people are killing the Kansas City Chiefs defense, and they fired Bob Sutton, but if you've watched Kansas City, they have not a good, they have a great offensive line in terms of the talent of pass rushers. What were they, how were they able to keep him clean?

Like he wasn't touched in either of the playoff games against two really good pass rushes. How are they able to do it? Well, and he's going to face another good group, but what they're able to do is they're able to keep guys off balance. And you saw early in the game they went big people. They went a traditional 21 set, two backs, one tight end, two wide receivers. What we've seen historically, or we think of historically as traditional football,

and they played big boy football. They went right at them. They ran the ball. It was physical. So that's like the equivalent of a body ball. in boxing. And I assume you're going to get a lot of that in the Rams game as well. So you do that, that slows guys down. Then you run a lot of quick passes out of the backfield. So even if you want to pressure, you're not getting home. So you're thinking, is it really worth it to

pressure at this point? Because the ball's coming out so quick. They mix in Corderle Patterson. And he's the gadget guy, but instead of using him for gadgets, they fake the ball to him, and they bring it to someone else. So now the defense has to cover the whole field. field and it forces the delimement especially to start thinking. And I can't just tee off. I've got to react to the outside run. Here comes the physical inside type of plays. The ball's coming out quickly.

So it's getting those guys to play on their heels. And I would imagine against some Rams, you're going to get some more, no huddle. And you saw New Orleans do that to some degree. And the Rams were having a tough time getting lined up. They were having a tough time teeing off because they won. weren't set to go. They couldn't match the tempo, and they're going to have tough time matching the tempo this week. What about the other side? Eric Mangini, join us. I'm Doug Gottlie, along with Joy Taylor, in for Colin. This is the Hurt on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports

One. The other side, they got some pressure on Pat Mahomes. No quarterback's the same when he gets hit. And they hit him a little bit, and he was seen a little bit of shadows. How are they able, that's a good offensive line. How are they able to get pressure on the Chiefs? It's, it's what they do really well is they identify weakness, and then they exploit the weakest. And they also talk about things you need to do to win the game. And I'm sure one of the points that Bill made in order to win the game was to keep Patrick Mahomes in the pocket. And they did that effectively. So the Chiefs tackles, offensive tackles, set so deep.

And you saw early in the game where the defensive ends, New England's outside rushers were coming up the field. Chiefs were setting deep. Then they'd come inside. Okay, that put pressure on Patrick. And the tackles would loop around and set an edge. So now there's pressure in the pocket. it, but there is nowhere for him to go. So all those untimed plays that were so effective for the Chiefs

throughout the course of the season, they couldn't get to. Then the other thing is, as a young quarterback, sometimes you don't believe what's in front of you. So J.C. Jackson, rookie DB out of Maryland, his man to man on Travis Kelsey with no help, the whole first half, and they don't really get the ball to him. Because they were assumed, I imagine he assumed Kelsey was going to be doubled. So instead of going out there and saying, okay, what really is it?

There's almost this assumption by young guys that this is what's going to happen. And then when they realize it's not what's happening, oftentimes it's too late and you're down 14 to nothing at the end of the first half. Yeah, and they could have been down. It could have been even worse, right? Brady didn't throw the pick. I mean, that was just a complete demolition and really an impressive fashion in the first half. And it seemed like they made some adjustments out of the half. All right, you can stick around with us?

Sure. Great. I do want to get to the Rams. I want to get to the blown call. I want to get to some of Sean Payton's decisions. Speaking of Sean Payton, would he be a good fit in Dallas? Do you say, hey, I've topped out here. That's the most I can do in New Orleans with an aging quarterback,

take on a younger one and try and lead the Cowboys to the Glory you led the Saints to previously. We'll get to that with Eric Mangini next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of The HARD. Weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottlieb, Joy Taylor, in for calling this.

is The Hurd. Got a great show for you. Chris Brousard joins Top of the Hour. We'll get his take on the All-Star selections, and if he thinks it's a bad thing to have the draft made public, is it going to draft guys? Eric Mangini continues to join us.

What did you think of how Sean Payton coached in the NFC championship game? Some of the play calling. Do you have any negative reaction to it? I thought overall he did a good job. I thought Wade Phillips did a nice job of taking away some things that were a problem in the first game.

And he made some adjustments to what they were doing with, with Camorra out of the backfield. They started to butcher him out of the back field. You know, the call, we've all talked about the call over and over again. And I get it. And we've all been frustrated by calls that were either missed or made that affected our lives. But that's part of what happened.

And maybe they'll change the rule. The only concern I have is they had a chance to go win the game. They had a chance to play defense. Then they got the ball first, just like New England did in overtime. So they had a little bit higher percentage of an opportunity to win the game. And they didn't. And then they had a chance to play defense again. And the Rams kick a 57-yard field goal.

So you just wonder if that call got everybody so preoccupied with that moment that they weren't able to move on to all the other moments that would have given them opportunity to not even have to worry about the call. Look, I've been critical, and I think other people have as well, of not running the ball first, second, third down, to take away the chances for the Rams, take away their timeouts. I know they checked out of a run on first down. And even the past, which was the past interference, wasn't that ball thrown to the inside, should have been thrown to the outside?

Well, here's what I'll say about that is over and over again. We celebrate, God, he takes chances. Remembering this Super Bowl? He kicked an on-side kick. He takes chances. So to criticize the guy for putting the ball in his best player's hand, and Drew Breeze's hands in a critical moment, I have a really hard time with.

And even if they'd run the ball three times, there still would have meant, I think, 50 seconds left. In the first game... If they don't get a first down. You are allowed to get a first down when you run the football. You are, and you're allowed to get stopped, and you're allowed to get a penalty, and a lot of other bad things can happen.

Right. But in the first game, there were 26 seconds left in the first half when the Rams got the ball back. and they walked down and kick a field goal. So to say that they couldn't do that in 50 seconds, well, that's not true. We saw it happen in the first game. So I just, I think it's very easy after the fact to say he should have done this,

he should have done that. But he put the ball in his best player's hands. He checked out of a bad play into a good play. And look, they got a penalty. It should have been a penalty. So to criticize them for that, I don't feel good about it. I don't love the way things were handled. after that moment.

Fair. Breeze hasn't looked the same. Have we reached that point with Breeze or is it the attrition of a season? And that's what happens with older players. They wear down at the end of the year. Like it, Breeze was not nearly as dynamic end of the year as most people think Breeze should be. Well, this offense was shaped a little bit differently. They had two running backs that were really effective.

And it was almost a run first approach. And I didn't see Breeze's performance later in the year as a decline. I think sometimes the scheme dictates, you know, more running than passing. And it may look a little bit different than what we've expected from that offense. But I don't think it was different because his performance had declined substantially. Would you consider the Cowboys if you're Peyton? Why? I don't know why you.

Hit reset. hit reset with a better younger roster? Okay, is it a better younger roster? And Sean has a, I'm sure, a significant amount of influence on what happens day-to-day, personnel, coaches, all those different things. And Dallas, you have to have a relationship with the owner who is the GM. And he has final say. And you saw the amount of coaches that have been spun through there, the assistant coaches. That roster is almost completely turned over.

and I don't think that's all a function of Jason Garrett. So there needs to be a special coach in Dallas to deal with that dynamic. And I think Jason Garrett is good for that situation. They've won the NFC East, what, two out of the last three years or three out of the last five, whatever it is. That's fairly productive. But it does feel like there's still this discontent with Garrett over play calling. That's why they change coordinators and he's still not going to call play. in one fail swoop, you can fix two problems, right?

You get the head coach, the play caller, and you have a guy who's had the success previously. I'm just... You know what really helps with play calling? You have better players? Yeah, Hall of Fame quarterback. That's a really... So Drew Brees, Dak, Prescott,

and look, maybe Dak is going to continue to grow. But let's look at those two guys and call the same play and see how effective they are. I agree with you. I don't think there's any... There's any disputing that a lot of football people think one of the reasons they're so conservative with their play calling is they don't think the quarterback is so is so dynamic that he can make better plays. So, and oh yeah, by the way, you got it running back like his equal.

I want to talk about running back. Go ahead. Okay. I just think any time you have to talk about a quarterback needing more weapons, that to me is the difference between Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady. They make the weapon, the people around them better. And then when you've got to, you've got to bring all these weapons in for a quarterback, you might not have the right guy. Okay, so do you think Todd Gurley's right? Do you think he's healthy right now?

I think that New England needs to stop Todd Gurley, and if you underestimate Todd Gurley, whose average 4.9 yards of carry, it will kill you. And he's an explosive player. Did he have a down game? He did. Were they able to win when he had a down game? Yeah, but go into a game and underestimate that guy,

and he'll kill you. Okay, so, but it does, there has been a substantial decline in his production over the last quarter of the season, and there's this thought that he hadn't been healthy. That's the reason that McVeigh's gone more to C.J. Anderson than going to him. Sometimes, and look, I give McVeigh a lot of credit. It's hard to continue to feed a guy that isn't Todd Gurley,

and I give Todd Gurley credit for accepting that role when he wasn't having a very good day. But if you're going to bet the odds, I would bet that Todd Gurley is the guy that's going to give you the best chance to win this next game as opposed to C.J. Anderson. You think Patriots win? So last week, if you had asked me who objectively I would pick, I would have picked Kansas City. But emotionally, if I had to put money on the game,

I would have put money on New England. Because I've just been there, you know, going through that three times in New England and being on the sideline with Tom and understanding their approach. Now, listen to this stat. they've played 10 Thursday night games and nine Super Bowls. They have made the Super Bowl the equivalent of an aberration during the scheduling in the week.

It's amazing. So as that group is getting ready for another game, another game, this other very inexperienced group is getting ready for the first time. It's crazy stuff. So much stuff. Eric Manjini. Wait to you hear what Jeannie Buss had to say. Get to it next in the herd. One more herd.

The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week, within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. What up? Welcome in. This is The Herd, wherever you may be. And however you may be making it's part of your day, thanks so much. Whether it's Fox Sports One, the IHeartRadio app, Fox SportsRadio.com. Thanks so much for tuning in. Colin is off. He'll be back Monday.

Joy Taylor, she's always working. Check out her podcast. podcast is awesome. Thank you. Did you see or hear what Jeannie Buss had to say about the Lakers? I did. Reader's Digest version would be, hey, if you don't want to, you know, I heard that she's heard whispers about people not want to play with LeBron James. She told this in the low post podcast.

I think here's the quote. I heard that about Kobe. too. That makes me laugh. Because if somebody doesn't want to play with the best player in the NBA right now, I don't want them on the team. Now, there is a little bit of the guy at the club who says, hey, you want to dance? And she says, no. No, no, I said you look fat in those pants, right? That feels a little bit like what Jeannie Buss is doing right now. Like, oh, you don't want to come here? Fine. We don't want you. And as much as I know,

knows she loves Kobe and Laker fans love Kobe. I don't think that actually helps you argument. I just don't. Kobe obviously very, very different from LeBron and Kobe more polarizing than LeBron. He just is. Like Kobe literally did not care, does not care if you liked him or respected him. Whereas LeBron wants everybody to like him. That's just the difference in the makeup of their personalities.

And so I feel like Jeannie's missing, missing it. And I honestly feel like she's off message. You know what her message should be? Hey, we're healthy. Pretty good. And to the East Coaster who woke up, like, well, you lost the Timberwolves with no LeBron. Yeah, LeBron didn't play.

Lanzo didn't play. Tyson Chandler didn't play. You're down three starters. You're not beating a playoff team or a team with decent talent most times when you don't have three starters in the NBA, especially. when one of those players was LeBron James. And, you know, a couple of the losses they suffered. They didn't have Kyle Coosma.

You don't have Coos in LeBron. Who's going to score? That's 47 points a game. So I feel like she's off message. Her message should be one of the best defensive teams of the league. We just got to get healthy. We got to continue to have our young players evolve. And whatever Rob and Magic decide to add or not add to the roster,

I'm all four, whatever Luke decides to do. I'm all four. That's the support instead of doing the, you know, if you don't want to play with, that felt like an unneeded shot at Kevin Durant and an unneeded shot at Kauai Leonard. Even if, even if you're running the Lakers and you felt like Kauai

turning down overtures and telling people close to him, I don't want that. Or Kevin Durant saying, you know, he doesn't want the sycophants in the media to cover him. He just doesn't want the LeBron thing. Like even if that's what they said, that doesn't mean you have to match fire with fire. And especially comparing LeBron and Kobe.

Like, no, no, no, no. You're Jeannie Bus. You're on the L.A. Lakers. Hey, we got 17 banners. We're going to add 18. Look at where we were last year. Look where we are this year. Everybody knows we have cap space.

We're looking for a few really, really good men who want to raise, raise a world championship trophy. That's it. That's it. And I may be the only one. I think if they add a shooter, maybe even somebody like J.R. Smith, you add a shooter?

That should be the second best team in the West. Look, people can go crazy because Boogie Cousins made some shots last night and he may end up getting back to being the Boogie Cousins he was. But Boogie does. change the Warriors dynamic. It gives them another scoring option, but they didn't really need much more scoring.

He changes them defensively. They've never played big ball or with the center down the stretch. Will they with boogie? We don't know. Their bench is not what it used to be. The Warriors, as the rocket showed last year, could be had. Now, I don't think this year's rockets aren't as good. And it feels like they're never going to be healthy.

And Oklahoma City, though they shot it well last night, that team can't shoot. I don't think Denver is ready for prime time. Like look around. The Lakers are tremendous defensively. They'll get LeBron James back. When they had LeBron James, here's what people forget. They were ahead of schedule before all the injuries set in. Ahead of schedule.

And so while she, in part of her statement in the low post podcast was, you know, we need to preach patience. She needs to be patient in her statements. I'm a buyer. I think it's a flawed roster. I think they need more shooting. I think, you know, some of these basketball mercenaries that are well-traveled are well-traveled for a reason. You know, I think they've played Lance Stevenson too much because the air guitar,

instead of playing FEMA High Luke, who has a higher ceiling, will be more of a solid shooter that can stretch, open up the defense. I think they overvalued Javelle McGee. He's a backup. He's always been a backup. He'll kind of always be a backup. And they're trying to kind of patch the center position on the fly. Contavius Colwell Pope is a good player and a bad player. team and a bad player and a good team. Like, but we know why he's here because he's a Rich Paul client, right?

Hold that roster spot for one more year so they can go get a big boy. Like, it's not a great roster, but it wasn't like the rest of the NBA said, hey, does LeBron Jean shooters? Why don't you take a couple of our shooters? Like, that's not actually the way it works. But they were ahead of schedule before LeBron got hurt, ahead of schedule, even with Rondo's injuries. even with the fact they had to go out and get Tyson Chandler.

And so I don't love the messaging here from Jeannie Bus. Let's bring in Chris Broussard, who, of course, you can hear on his own radio show with crazy Rob Parker, who's been taking some hells this week. Of course, you also see Chris on all of our shows here on Fox Sports One. What do you make of Jeannie Bus saying, like, well, if you don't want to play with this, we don't want you. Like you said, it's unnecessary bravado. And I get it. She was asked the question. You said she's off brand. You know, she was asked the question. But you could easily say, look, we think we got a good thing going. You know, LeBron is here. The best player in the world is here. And we think a lot of players are going to want to play with him. He shares the ball. You know, other guys will get shots. You know, he's wanting. You could go a number of ways. You didn't have to go here because you're right. It does. Look, first of all, it's just factually incorrect. You want Paul George. You wish you had Paul George. You wish you had Paul

George right now. What if, I mean, imagine if this Lakers team had this version of Paul George. Right. They'd be right there. You want Kevin Durant. You want Kawhi Leonard. You want, you know, Kyrie Irving, any of these guys that are going to be free agents, you would take them.

And the thing is this, it's not wrong of Kawhi Leonard or some other star if they don't want to go play with LeBron. if I've got the man ability, right? And very few players in this league have that. But if I'm one of them, I want to be the man. So if Kauai Leonard wants to go to the Clippers and take his own shot at leading his own team to a championship, I respect that. It doesn't have to be a knock against LeBron. It may just be, I want to give it my shot and see if I can lead a team.

When Kevin Durant went to Golden State, everybody crushed it. him for the most part. Now a lot of people are saying he needs to go somewhere else, the Knicks or somebody, and lead them to a title. So if somebody doesn't want to go play with LeBron, you know, it shouldn't, it doesn't mean they don't have the character to play for the Lakers or something like that. But the first guy to break away from LeBron was Kyrie Irving, right? And Kyrie, of course,

I don't think it went over the way he wanted to go over. That's why he had to kind of readdress it. But he did say like, hey, these guys don't know what it takes to win a championship. I do. And then he came out and said, like, I called the bra and apologized for how I was before. I may be the only one to point out, of course, he's a starter in the All-Star team. He has backed up the talk with some walk. I mean, he's been 27 and 18, 33, 38 and 11, 32 and 5, 26 and 10.

I know he's going to, they play the Warriors tomorrow night. It feels like Kyrie has responded in the way. you're supposed to respond to some sort of adversity in that, all right, you want to talk it, fine, go out and show us, and oh, he's kind of shown us. You're absolutely right. And I said, well, Kevin Love, even, there's a report that he's like, hey, you know,

maybe they will get together or, you know, I can see it happening. Tristan Thompson said the same thing. I said a week ago on this show, Kyrie has to decide, he has to look within himself and say, okay, do I want to, be the leader and take on all those responsibilities of teaching young guys, guiding young guys,

taking the blame as well as the credit for our downfall, making sure the chemistry is right, the egos in the locker room, everything is right. He didn't have to do that in Cleveland. So he had to decide, do I want that responsibility as the leader, or do I just want to be like a hired gun, be able to just go out and ball and not have to worry about that? And that's when I was Like, if he didn't want to worry about that, he could go with LeBron. I believe, to your point, he has made that decision. And he has accepted that, you know what, I do want to be a leader. I do want to have my own team.

I do want the responsibility that comes with that. And I think, Doug, I think this whole season for Boston's been a tug-a-war of, okay, are we that equal opportunity offensive type team with ball movement and everything that we were without Kyrie and got to the Eastern Conference Finals, or are we a star-driven team with Kyrie as the driver? Kyrie Irving has answered that question the last four games and said he's giving them an identity of it's Kyrie's team now. And you guys, Jason Tatum, all you guys, get in where you fit in around me, but it's my

team, I'm going to lead it. He was trying to do it with words a few weeks ago. Now he's doing it with actions. and I mean, like you know as a point guard in your day, his assist numbers have, he's basically doubled his assist number. Now it was only four games, but he's never averaged more than six assists a game.

He's averaging 11 over the last four. I'll let you know a conversation I have with Brad Stevens. It was the day after the NBA draft last year, and I haven't been in Boston. And so I called Brad up and he's like, yeah, I'll have lunch. I got press conferences, whatever, I got time. So I was like, I asked him this question, like, can Kyrie pass?

He's like, Kyrie's the best passer I've ever seen. Great passer. And I said, well, why the hell? Doesn't he do it more? And he's like, you know, that's a great question. He goes, he's, he, and what he said was he yearned for the professionalism that they, that they had in Boston, that in Cleveland, it wasn't that they were unprofessional,

but it's just a, at least how LeBron was in Cleveland. It was very, very different. LeBron didn't really practice. Everything revolved around LeBron. Yes, plus he didn't really practice. He kind of. worked out on his own, did his own thing, and then they had kind of a group of young guys that would, like, practice kind of without him. And so it was very, very different. Whereas in Boston,

you have, you know, this group, this Al Horford and now Gordon Hayward and where they are in the off season. They come in, they get the work done, they go home. They come in to practice. They get the work done, and they go home. It's a very professional kind of atmosphere. Anyway, I asked him, like, well, he's such a good pass, and why didn't he pass? He's like, that's really the challenge is, does he, if he wants to be, it's like defense. Like, he can guard people. Right. He's defense. improved too. And he's been able to get away with just being the best finisher and making big shots. And, you know, look, tomorrow night's going to be an incredible challenge for him, but it'll

be interesting to see how he accepts it. I want to ask you about the Warriors. There are people that gave me a bunch pushback when I said, like, look, I understand that we all have this image of DeMarcus Cousins as an all-star, but he's never played a playoff game. His team got better last year when he got hurt. And he's not, that's a big, that's a, it's a bad injury for anybody, but for a big guy carrying 270, 280 pounds, he doesn't have the lift, and they will have to play defensively, very,

very differently if you play with a true center on the floor at the end of games. What's the rest of the league? What are you hearing about what they think of the Warriors as they're now coming to their kind of full construction? Well, the defense is the question mark. And a lot of people are like, we're going to put

cousins in that pick and roll and exploit him, you know? And so that's, look, offensively, he's fitting in fine. I mean, I've never seen him run the floor like this. He's rim running, you know, let's see if he keeps it up, but he's certainly been doing that early. Floor's a little tilted. He runs this way

really fast. Sometimes he doesn't run the other way all that fast. We know he's a good three-point shooter. He's a great offensive player. Right. And he's moving the ball fairly well. So I think offensively he's fitting in well and he's a great passer for a big man.

So if he buys in and I think he is, then they can that gives another dynamic to their office. They had everything covered, Doug. The threes, the mid-range, the driving game, the backdoor cuts, all that. They didn't have a post guy. Not that they needed it necessarily, but now they even have that option with cousins. Defense is where the questions are.

And teams know, look, we can't stop them offensively, but he does give us a guy we can exploit. You know they always try to go at Steph. Now you have two guys. Now you have two guys. You can hide one. It's really hard. It's hard to hide to.

What's the state of the Sixers? It's a weird. That's a weird group. They play, look, they are better with Jimmy Butler, I believe. I think they're 19 and 9 with him. That's about a 56 win pace or something like that. But he's, from what I've heard, it's the same thing as it was in Chicago and Minnesota. And I've talked to people up there.

He's rubbing guys the wrong way. So Elton Brand, the GM, has to decide, are we going to keep him and think about it. He's not going to be happy unless he gets the full five years 190 because that was one of the things that had him all out of sorts in Minnesota is that he wasn't the money. People thought it was just, oh, the young guys are soft, but he also was like, you paid them and I haven't, you haven't gotten paid or you're not guaranteeing me I'm going to get paid. So if he, you got to give him the $519. And if you pay him, do you want that attitude? You think he's doing some things now?

What's he going to be like once he's got that money? It's killed Chris Carter. Money doesn't make you a different person, makes you more of what you are. Right. And do you want that example for M.B. and Simmons, who are your future. So I think Elton Brand's got a big decision to make. If we're not going to keep him, if, then I think you got to trade him. And I'll tell you what, look, we start off with the Lakers.

I don't think they're not getting KD, I don't believe. I don't think they're getting Kauai. I don't think Karee is going there. I don't think Clay is going there. I would take Jimmy Butler if I'm the Lakers. I would trade for Jimmy Butler if I could because LeBron, Jimmy, all these issues he's had, Chicago, Minnesota, now Philadelphia. What's the common theme?

Young guys. Young guys, he may respect their talent or their games, but they're young what they're going to tell jimmy butler he also doesn't do that with lebron yes he also does the car service to the game thing he's also you know he's a little jimmy butler ink yep doesn't get on the team bus going the way to the game yeah so but i think with lebron though he would respect lebron and lebron's the leader if you're the lakers i think lebron and jimmy butler would be a heck of a tandem still need shooting they do need shooting and i think they think Anthony Davis is the guy they would, they would prefer.

I think it's going to be difficult to get him. No doubt that he's the guy they prefer. But don't, like, he's not getting, this is what's going to happen. He's not going to have to demand a trade. He says I'm not, he doesn't want to be the bad guy. This summer, New Orleans going to put that supermax in front of him on the table. Right. He's going to reject it.

There's a lot of money. I believe he's going to reject it. Yeah. But if he rejects it, then they're going to realize, okay. We got a move. Right. Okay. I got one more for you.

The James Harden run is pretty remarkable. And look, I can sit here and say, do you see the stat as 163 consecutive points without somebody assisting on it? That's unbelievable. Now, you know that does, that's not great team basketball, obviously, but that does make it more impressive for him. Don't you think?

It's just harder to do. It's really hard to do. I don't know if impressive is the word. It's hard to do, and I know that should go hand in hand with impressive. But like in this day and age, ball-moving offense. That is not what they do. You're not going to win at a high level.

There's no way. Will Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, and LeBron James could not win his one-man shows. James Hardin is not winning a title. In fairness to James Hardin, he isn't technically a one-man show. He will, other guys will score off of his passing. He just won't score off their passing. But he does it all. And he's shooting what?

In this run, he's averaging 43 points. What's he averaging? Close to 30 shots a game? Yes. He's shooting more threes. then volume shooters shoot total shots. Yes. Like Westbrook average is 20 shots a game.

Hardin has games where he shoots 23s. So with that sort of ball, is he the, do we have to give him the MVP because he's taking more shots, he has the ball more? Like literally has the ball taking a shot or making a play every possession. I hear you. I hear you because you, this, can I bring up quickly? Remember when Michael Jordan played point guard, the last 24 games of the 89 season?

he averaged 30 points, 11 assists, and nine rebounds. Because he had the ball all the time. And he was making every play. And pace of play was slower than it is now. Right. So the numbers might even be higher. And the three-pointer wasn't a factor. But look, I do think Hardin is the leader for the clear leader for the MVP.

I'm a voter. If I had to vote today, he would undoubtedly get my vote because here's the other thing, Doug, they're winning. Yes. They're 15 and 6. I know I have to wrap, but I'm going to blow it off for one more. What's the matter with Russell Westbrook's shot? What happened?

Like, he was never a great shooter, but now, like, he's four of eight from the free throw line. Like he, and I know he made him the night before, but there's something physically wrong with his shot, which wasn't there before. You know, some people talk about the routine of he used to be able to walk back to the, between free throws, walk back to the half court line and come back. The league got rid of that. You can't do that anymore. No, but he's not shooting the ball from the primitive of the same. There's something wrong with the shot. I don't know.

how to explain it. I would like to see it over, like if it carries over the next year, before I say, okay, this dude is, I don't know how to explain it. Is it mental? You know, he's playing good basketball otherwise, great basketball otherwise, but he's just not shooting it well. No, and he shoots a lot. Yogi Berra said 50% mental, 75% or 70% physical, 75% mental, something like that. Well, Yogi Bears, Chris Brousard, check out the odd couple. It's a great show. Crazy Rob Parker alongside. That's at, what is it, 7 o'clock, Eastern. I get the Eastern to 7 o'clock, 7 to 10, Eastern 4 to 7, Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.

There's really only one reason why Tom Brady is going to his sixth Super Bowl. I'll tell you why. Next in the Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and no.

Nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answers. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure,

and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the hard way and listen now. What's up guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee.

We're in the middle of a game. This line. You know these kids. This linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42.

Hey, ref. My mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? This Isaiah Thomas.

And I'm C.J. Toledano, and our podcast Point Game is about Define the odds. Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game. We get a player's perspective on the challenges of the playoffs. I think Joker's going to be exhausted this series because when they don't have Rudy in the lineup, he has to really guard guys like Nas Reed. He has to guard Julius Randall. And then he has to

give us everything he gives us on the night-to-night basis on offense. And when IT's friends stop by, like Quentin Richardson, we dive into some playoff history, too. Steve Nass would get that thing. That man, hell get the flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers why he got the ball. Like, after you go through a training camp with that, Isaiah, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court, and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you've got the dreaded stuffy nose this cold and flu season, try Vicks Cynex nasal spray. A couple of Cinex nasal sprays, and it works in seconds to clear your nose. And last up to 12 hours, be ready when congestion strikes. Synex nasal spray use as directed. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is The Hurt on Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One, and the IHeart Radio app. T.J. Hushman Zada, in a moment first, let's get to Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line dude. You just blinked me. You hit me with the engagement ring. Sorry. I felt like Tom Brady with that laser pointer in his eye. I know what it feels like to be Tom Brady. Lasergate.

So Bill Belichick is not one to reveal his game plans before any game, but especially not before the Super Bowl. Sean McVeigh is a little bit of a different story. Young Rams coach openly discussed how he plans to defend Tom Brady by slowing him down in the Super Bowl. Yeah, it's a great challenge. I mean, there's a reason why he's arguably one of the greatest. of all time because, you know, he does an excellent job of identifying whatever defensive structure you're in, whether you want to pressure, whether you want to try to put pressure

with a four-man rush and play loaded zone or some man principles behind it. He's got such an ownership on being able to get the ball out of his hand in a timely manner. And then he's got guys that can separate. That's going to be a key to try to, you know, get him off of his rhythm, which not many people have success doing. So I didn't really feel exactly what he's planning on doing, but it is comforting to know that he is going to actually try and put some pressure on Tom Brady, which has not happened all postseason, and which I really thought was going to be the goal. I mean, I'm sure they were trying to get to Tom Brady, obviously, but I feel like you just got to sell out and find some way to get hands on Tom Brady if you're the chiefs. And that's clearly what the Rams are going to have to do.

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple things working here. I mean, first, one thing we know of Sean McVeigh is he has, he does trust Wade Phillips, right? He doesn't really, though he might go into that room and offer up some suggestions, he does let them kind of do their thing. Right. Like, I think the personnel, you know, you have a nasty defensive front, and you can pressure up the middle with what they have. And if you look at, you know, the one team that beat him twice was the Giants,

and though the personnel might have changed, the idea was they could get to Tom Brady with four. Can you get to Tom Brady with four? If you can do that, you can beat the Patriots. If you can't, you can't beat the Patriots. So I do think, like, I know it's a lot more complex in football, guy, like, well, you know, it comes down to, but for us lame and for civilians like me. No, it comes down to you have to get Tom Brady off his mark. Everyone knows that.

Every player says that it's not up against Tom Brady. It's a lot easier to say that it is to do. Teeners have done. Maybe it was some wishful thinking on my part because the Chief's defensive line is actually very good. It is really good. And it's good up the middle. Like Chris Jones, I know he got hurt late, but, I mean,

I think he's the best player that most people in America don't know about. Like, he had an amazing year. And they couldn't get to him. Like, his jersey literally had no green on it in two games against two awesome pass rushes. That makes no sense. And they had the Bosa clip from NFL films from the week before. Like, hey, God, he gets rid of it so fast. He gets rid of it so fast.

But he actually didn't. I know. He had so much time. I know. I was opposite of that. Well, they ran it. They ran it. And then he got rid of it quickly.

And then you almost get tired. Like, well, what the hell? I'm not going in there. And then he's holding these pump-faking and finding guys down the field. Yeah, well, it's going to be key. So Levy on Bell has made Miami his home for the off season. He's jet skiing around the bay there. I haven't been jet skiing in a long time.

And it appears he also wants to make it his personal home. Jet skiing, awesome, right? Jet skiing is fun. Awesome. I'm not the best on jet skis. I'm not the best with motorized equipment in general. I mean, as long as you don't do, who was it? Was it Big Sean who hit the bridge?

wasn't it? I don't know. Yeah, as long as you don't hit one of the bridges there, I think you're good, like, I meant what's good and bad, like, you're jet skiing. You have to be responsible. You get excited, it's a lot of power, you know, you start feeling like you can do some

fun things and that's where you get into trouble. Like, I went, I decided it was a good idea to drive the jet ski over the wake of a cruise ship. Yeah. Not smart. That's not great. On the other side of that wave is nothing.

Yes. So I was cruising through the air for a few seconds. Did you hold on? Yes, but it was one of the more terrifying moments of my life. I didn't know what was going to happen when we came down. A good healthy amount of fear is good, like as long as you're okay. You're going to go flying off of it. I'm not to live on the edge person.

I just feel like if you hold on, you're going to be okay. If you let go, that's when it's not okay. Yeah, just be careful on the jet skis. Anyway, it was reported yesterday at Levyon would prefer to sign with the dolphins this off season. He'll become a free agent for the first time in his career when the NFL's new league year begins on March 13th. He's looking for a long-term deal, obviously, the pay him 15 to $17 million, with somewhere in the 45 million guaranteed range. And the Steelers are expected to transition tag him,

which means they'll have the ability to match and offer to Bell and free agency. And the Steelers did say last week that they do intend on reaching out to Bell's representatives coming soon, but we're all kind of assuming that he's going to move on. I personally love this idea. I don't think the dolphins are going to be great anytime soon. So I'm cool with having an exciting new player on the team. And they have to move some things around. We're not going to be good.

So let's be fun. And he likes to get to get to. I just have to lower my expectations. for the dolphins if I'm just going to tolerate that. They actually weren't terrible this year, even though they didn't have Tanyhill for like half the season. And like they don't know who they're, I love the Flores higher, right?

I just, I'm excited about that. I, it's, I mean, wasn't, weren't terrible. Like,

that's, that's the standard that we're at right now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're not, they're not terrible. They have to move a lot of pieces around.

They have about 13 million in caps space. I don't see. I don't see it happening. I don't see the, I think he goes to, uh, Tampa or he ends up in New York. Yeah, but I don't even see the Jets.

It would be a very Jets sort of move, but they have a bunch of money, but they got a bunch of holes. Like the idea of loading up on a running back, no matter how good, when you need a whole new offensive line, you need all new skill position players just for one player. Like, it just doesn't seem cost effective to spend that much on a running back when you can get a couple for a fraction of the sum. No, that's why I probably end up in Tampa. Finally, before this NBA season began, the Celtics were viewed as the greatest threat to the Warriors, winning their third straight title. The Warriors play the Celtics tomorrow night,

as we're just discussing with Chris Broussard. And despite the fact, Celtics are fifth in the east. Steve Kerr told the athletic he still feels the same way about them as he did at the beginning of the season. Dream on Green elaborated and said, I think they're the most talented team in the East, still trying to figure out

rotations and shots and all the things it takes to figure out when you have a great team. People think you just put great players out there together and it works. It doesn't. They're still trying to figure it out, but I don't doubt that they will. Do you still see the Celtics as a threat to the Warriors? or at least the biggest threat for the Warriors in the East.

Yes, I think they're a legitimate threat. I think they're the biggest threat. And I think that's going to be who we see health permitting. And they've had some players, whether it's Al Horford, of course, Kyrie Irving, he's been hurt almost every year of his career. Health permitting. And they do it. They've had some chemistry issues.

They've had some guys who are like, yeah, we were fine without Kyrie, even if they weren't that good without Kyrie. What to do with Terry Rozier, who is their fourth guard, really? They move on from him and get more of a veteran presence. So they hold on to him so they can trade him in the offseason. Like I think they got some issues there But they have better guard play Frankly I think better coaching

More of a little bit of championship pedigree And better shooting than the Sixers And now at the Pacers Unfortunately with the injury to Victorola Depot You know cross them off The Raptors are the other team Who I really really like But you know

Lowry hasn't been nearly as good in the playoffs As Kyrie has been I'm gonna I'm gonna take the Celtics Seltics slightly over the Raptors I picked the Celtics at the beginning of the season But I really I really do like the Raptors. I think a lot of people are

selling out on the Raptors because of what they've consistently been in the postseason. But LeBron James is not in the East anymore. And they upgraded. They brought in an NBA Finals MVP. They upgraded. And like Danny Green's not great, but he can be great when called upon in a role. He's a spur. He's a champion.

I'm with you. Those two teams are legitimate threats to the Warriors and I think that's who we'll see in the Eastern Conference files. That's Joy Taylor with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping The herd line news. All right, coming up next, Pro Bowl wide receiver,

T.J. Hushmanzada is going to join us. How the Patriots keep doing it. Nothing outside the numbers and how do they keep doing it. And what can Jared Goff do against this Patriots to suddenly stout Patriots defense? We'll talk to T.J. Hushman Zada. He'll join us next. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is The Hurt.

Be sure to catch live editions of the HARD weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. A huge night of college basketball action comes your way tonight on FS1. It all tips off at 6 Eastern with action from the Big Ten as storied rivals face off when number five Michigan battles Indiana. Then it's a showdown in the Big East as Butler takes on Creighton College Basketball double-h header tonight on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. Pretty good hoop tonight on Fox Sports One. Tune in. Keep it tuned right here to Fox Sports One. I'm Doug Gottlie, along with Joy Taylor, on the IHeart Radio app on the Heard Podcast.

You can listen to my all-ball podcast. Let's welcome in T.J. Hushmanzada, who joined us for a pro bowl wide receiver. And you see him throughout our shows here on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. Hush, when you watch the Patriots the game plan, the way they played in the first half, the way they kind of had to change and evolve in the second half, what was your reaction what happened in Kansas City? Kansas City couldn't get off the field on third down, and the Patriots pretty much ran the ball whenever they wanted to.

That was, they somewhat implement the same game plan against the charges. We're going to run the ball. We're going to keep your offense off the field. And if you can stop us, we'll change. If not, this is what we're going to do. It's kind of interesting. It felt like they did to Kansas City what people used to do to them at the height of Tom Brady's powers, right? When Tom

Brady was great, when he had that 50 touchdown season, like the whole thing, well, you've got to keep Tom Brady off the field. That's what you did Pat Mahomes. Kept them over there on ice. They've evolved offensively. They've turned into a running team. It's benefited them. Now it turned into a guessing

game. They came out the first few third downs. They ran the ball. And I'm sure the chiefs, it kind of clouded the defensive coordinator and also the players, like they were guessing. Are they going to run it now? It's third and six. They run the ball with James White first down. 90% of guys in NFL, at least play callers, that's going to be a pass play. And so they just kept the chiefs off balance. The chiefs could not get off the field on third down. Bob Sutton lost his job. There are people that are critical of him, but they did play man to man. That's supposedly the way to get to Tom Brady, right? You got to play man to man,

and then you got to pressure him up front. Was there something Bob Sutton should have done differently that he didn't do? So, yes, they did play man to man, but the difference was, me just watching the game. The majority time when Julian Edelman went in motion, he ran that deep over route.

So he's running away from the defender in man coverage. And when he was... Wait, hold on. Try to explain to somebody. They're in their car, and they're like, okay, he's in motion. What's a deep over? He would come in motion and he would run across the field.

Okay. Running away from coverage, which is the guy playing him man-to-man, so he's going to chase you. But if he's a man-a-man, why wouldn't he have inside leverage and force you to go back outside? Because he went in motion. And when you get in motion, when you go in motion, normally the defensive back backs off of you and gives you a two-way go. They normally don't press you when you go in motion. And that's why the Patriots bring him in motion to get him a free release. And all he did was run away.

And so that last drive, even in overtime, the chiefs were in a two-man coverage, one-third down, they busted the coverage, just let Edelman go right through the middle. It was the first down. The other time, the guy just didn't get inside to take the inside away. And then when they tried to play robber, robber is when they bring that safety down to rob the middle to take that route away. That's when he hit Granc on that slant route. And so they just had the chief's guessing.

They were guessing. And the rounds have better players in a secondary, in my opinion. opinion than the Chiefs. So this should be pretty interesting. Doesn't it feel like though the Rams, supposedly the weakness I've always been told, the weakness to Wade Phillips style of defense and to the Rams personnel as linebacker

and the ability to have those linebackers cover? Will they be able to cover it like that? That to me says James White's going to have 15, 16 catches in this game. The thing, the Rams linebackers, there aren't very big. They're athletic. And so you have to have an idea that they are going to attack you.

This whole week of pressure, you have to have that idea that you are going to be attacked. James White is going to run an option round. He's going to break out or break in. Now, you can have combo coverages to where you shade outside and force him inside

because you have help if they play that robber. That robber is there to help on that inside option route with the running back. I'm sure Wade Phillips will mix it up. They will play press coverage. That's, in my opinion, is the best way to play the Patriots

because with that deep, they got four first round picks on the D-line. You got Heronnell, you got Indomaconsu, you got Dante Fowler, you got Michael Brockers. You got four guys that can, if you can make Brady pat the ball, meaning take one or two hitches, you have a chance, but they're going to have to mix it up.

T.J. Husman Zada, joining us. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is the herd. Okay, let's get to the Saints game. I haven't heard your take on the penalty. First part, like, I feel like not enough people, being critical of, and I know they audibald out of it, but throwing the

ball on first down, don't you run it? Get that clock moving? I was just telling Jason yesterday. Everybody's critical of Sean Payton. Oh, why'd you throw it on first down? Sean Payton has come out and said that was a run play. They gave us the zero look, drew out of the board out to a pass. Mistake number one.

Was it PI? Yeah, I was pass interference. Did they missed a call? Yes, it won't be the first that's not going to be the last call they missed. It happens. You're complaining about But I get it because if I was a Saints, I'd be pissed. But it is what it is. How many more plays happened after that?

The Saints had the ball in overtime with a chance to go win it. They missed a face mask. The Saints first penalty, you know when they got their first penalty of the game? It was five minutes and 26 seconds left in the third quarter. So you can't, there's bad calls both ways. Yeah, I would be upset if I was on a Saints, but you had the ball. There are plenty of plays after that. You just didn't get it done.

What do you think is wrong with Todd Gurley? I mean, is it a matchup thing? Is he not right? Like Todd Gurley went from the most dynamic back in the league to, yeah, he's the other guy in that backfield. Dude, it's, that's the million dollar question. It's so baffling that. It's more than a million dollars, but yes. It's baffling that you have been the guy the entire year.

And in the two biggest games of the season, the playoff games, Anderson is basically stolen the show. He's been that guy. running the ball. Right out the gate, Jared Gall's first interception right through Gurley's hands. The third down, the third down that he dropped,

that girl he dropped. The Saints pass interfered the Rams on that play. That would have been an automatic first sound. They didn't call it. The receiver outside was being held. They didn't call that as well. I don't know what's wrong with girls. This is Super Bowl.

Todd got to play. If he can be himself and run routes and run the ball, it's going to be tough to deal with the Rams. Can he do that? You think the Rams win? I do believe the Rams win. The key to beating the Patriots is pressure up the middle.

They're going to double. Aaron Donald, if Dominic and Sue can play the way he played last week, you affect Tom Brady up the middle. You make him move laterally and don't allow him to step up in the pocket. That's the best way to beat the Patriots. T.J. Hushmanjada joining us here in the herd. It's weird what's coming out of Pittsburgh, right? First, you go back a couple weeks ago and I was like, man, he's gone.

owners talking about he's gone. Now they're, well, hey, Pouncey came out and said it's a brotherhood, and there seems to be a little bit of dialing back of, you know, maybe we can have a conversation and work some things out. Is it just, it's too punitive in terms of hurting you, hurting your roster and hurting your salary cap? Or is this cooler heads really prevailing in Pittsburgh to bring him back? The smart thing would be cooler heads prevailing, but they have to move on. It's like a marriage that you just wanted to make it work, but it's just really no point. They should just separate him and move on. The toothpaste is out of the tube.

You cannot put it back in now. The damage has been done. We were a brotherhood during a season as well, and all this wasn't going on. When Ben criticized AB in the Denver loss, and he criticized, what happened to the brotherhood then? They know AB is very valuable to that team. They could be trying to drive up the trade value. I don't know.

But A, B, needs to be gone. For the culture, the salary cap ramifications should not matter. For the culture of your team, for the Pitchburg Steelers, if we are a team and the team comes first, it should not matter the salary cap hit. You have to move on because you will set a bad precedent for the rest of the guys on the team. There was an article yesterday.

Seth Wickersham wrote it. It was about the Cleveland Browns. and it basically chronicled Jimmy Hasam's time as owner there. And obviously there was some dysfunction there in infighting between Joe Banner and Michael Lombardi. And then it even went to the firing, you know, most recently of Hugh Jackson. And now they walked in and said, Hugh, you've lost the team, even though they've been to overtime four out of eight games. He told him to get the F out of his office, right? And they ultimately fired him anyway.

Look, you were part of a franchise that went before Marble. Marvin got there, incredibly dysfunctional, and then Marvin kind of straightened things out. How much does ownership affect the actual football team? You know, it's funny. When you're a part of the dysfunction, you don't realize that it's dysfunctional until you go to another team. I was drafted to the Bengals. That was all I knew. You hear other guys, oh, it's like this with us.

You don't really understand. Okay, tell the story really quickly. For people who have, you show up your rookie training camp, what was it like? It was. I didn't think it was bad. We didn't have security at our training camp so people could come in and out whenever you wanted. And they did.

Plenty of people. People that shouldn't have been there. Like what kind of people? I can't even say that on TV. Why? You said it on radio. You told me before. Strippers.

Yes. At training camp. At training camp. Every day. Midnight to like 4 a.m. Every single day. And the guys that were on that team know exactly what I'm talking about. Every day.

And it was like, I'm calling my buddies like, dude, do y'all got strippers on y'all trying to camp they like nah i'm like oh wow every day and then when Marvin got there we got security and so that stopped but it was it was in the pro it was the vets they would have all this going on and i'm like god is it like this on every team i thought that was normal and then you start calling around like nah this is not normal there's some hope that baker mayfield can you know that there's there's there's real legit hope there his numbers against the bad teams is excellent the numbers against the good teams are not but he's only a rookie and he does seem to have kind of a leadership quality.

Can a quarterback overcome that dysfunction? Yes, because if you're winning, how much dysfunction is there? When you win, winning covers up a lot of things. And the Browns have a really good roster. They have a really good roster of young players. And so if they can win, it doesn't bode well that you're great against the bad teams and not so great against the good teams. Well, they were just bad against everybody before they went one game in two years combined.

You would think as he gets more experience, his play will improve mentally and physically. I think Baker Mayfield is a hell of a quarterback. He needs to calm down a little bit. He's a little too high and too low. He needs to be more even killed. But that's not his personality. Will he be able to manage his emotions? That remains to be seen.

Katina Mobley is joining me next. We're going to talk some Lakers. Are you a buyer into Lakers? You got 15 seconds. I'm a Laker fan. Of course I'm a buyer. No, but are you a buyer into this Laker team? Yeah, I am a buyer.

I don't like how they lose the teams they should not lose to. Like, I'm watching the game last night against the Timberwolves. It was a good game and then the fourth quarter, it's over. Well, we'll talk with Catino Mobley upcoming next. Jeannie Bus had some interesting comments about people not wanted to play with LeBron

comparing him to Kobe. We'll get to that next. My thanks to T. Joe Shenzada. This is The Herd. One more Herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live

or on demand whenever you'd like. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd wherever you may be in. However, you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much alongside the lovely, talented, engaged, Joy Taylor, who has an award-winning podcast. Is it award-winning? I think so. I give an award. One of the most fun ones I listen to. I drive a lot. I listen to a lot of podcasts. I listen to a lot of radio. I enjoy it. Well, thank you. I enjoyed a great deal. Actually, you know, we're going to get to Catina Mowgli in a second, get his take on what Jeannie Bus said about the Lakers. I got a question for you.

Okay. This is an unplanned question before we get to Jeannie Buses. Okay, so last Friday, so this time, I had a game Saturday in Madison, Wisconsin, 11 a.m. local. Okay. And this is a, what would Joy Taylor do? Oh, that's fine. Okay.

So I'm walking to the airport at Sky Harbor Airport, which, those people don't know. That's Phoenix. I did a game on Thursday in Phoenix. Did my own radio show. The Doug Gottlieb show follows this one on most Fox Sports Radio affiliates, 3 to 6 Eastern, 12 to 3 Pacific. Arizona this time of the year is Mountain Time Zone. Who knew? So I was done at four. I had a great dinner with my friends. My wife came out. We had some friends that live in Scottsdale. We had dinner. I get to the airport. It's a nonstop, who knew, again, from Sky Harbor to Madison, Wisconsin.

I'm walking into the airport. And I get an alert that the flight was canceled. Now, I got to get there from 11 o'clock, 11 o'clock start, got to get there. And I kind of push back my flight thinking, you know, one of the chances. Of course, snowstorm going through the Midwest, bad luck. So I go right to the counter. I get on a nonstop to Chicago. Land in Chicago just after midnight. Game is 11 o'clock and it has just begun to really snow.

It's going to snow until 7 in the morning. It takes, with no snow, two hours or so to go from O'Hare to Madison. Here's the question I have for you. Do you drive right then it? midnight, go to get a car, 1230, drive through some sort of snow. How long is the drive? Two hours with no snow. Okay.

Substantially longer with snow because you're driving slower. Or do you sleep? Chicago Airport Hilton? I'm a fan. Very nice. Okay. Get up, get a car in the morning and then go then. Okay.

So your only option is to drive at this point. Only options to drive? Yeah. I think I'm driving that night. Right away? Yeah. Okay. That's what I chose.

Okay. You are, because at this point, you've already had a string of luck where you've been delayed and, and you have no idea how long it's going to take. Yeah, no idea if there's an accident. You're better to just get there. Agree, which is what I did. Took a while. Even driving behind a snow plow, they don't go, snow plows don't go 55, about 40 miles an hour. So how long are I take you?

About three and a half, but remember I had to get the rent a car and I stopped and got a little, got some tachies on the way. and and toki's and tea on the way. And so I roll into town around 4 o'clock or so. Game is at 11. Yeah, here's the second question. Have you done all your prep and stuff? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So, okay, here's the next one. The hotel I was assigned to stay out was on the west side of town, which would take about 25, 30 minutes to get there. And then we get back. It was four in the morning. I rolled into, do you go get a coffee right then in a diner?

Do you crash in the car? Do you go to the hotel and sleep for a couple hours, take a shower, get up, come do the game? I'm going to need to sleep. I'm not a power through person at that point. You got to get at least a few hours of sleep. But you would go to the hotel. Yeah, I would go to the hotel.

I slept in the car. Well, I mean, you're a man. Yeah, it's different to the guy. Sleeping in the car is not a huge option for a woman. Well, I mean, but here's the one flaw to men who are thinking about this thing and sleeping in the car thing, okay? And it was a great game. Wisconsin upset the then undefeated Wisconsin.

I did take a shower at the gym in case you're wondering about my hygiene. I got there. Thanks so much to the folks of Wisconsin. It was cold. Like real, not California cold. It was like 50 degrees. You're like, man, 50 degrees in California feels like 10 degrees elsewhere. It was literally 10 degrees.

And I'm trying to catch a little siesta in my car. And I had to wake up every hour, turn on the car, turn on the seat heater, crank up the heat. Oh, I mean, yeah, you didn't, you didn't factor that in. I mean, that was not a good choice. It was a flaw. It was a flaw. brings me to the Lakers. It does bring me to the Lakers.

I got the plan. Like I understood it. The Lakers were five years of nothingness. Five years of nothingness. And if we're going to be fair to Rob Polinka and the Magic Johnson, last year they had to unload bad contracts, some bad attitudes. They had to figure out, do they keep Luehl dang around? Do they separate him from the team?

It wasn't that he's a bad human being, but he clearly wanted to play. His body wouldn't let him in his conscience. contract demanded that he played. He started the first game and never played again for them. Jordan Clarkson was not seen as a winning player. Of course, they got rid of DeAngelo Russell. There's a lot of stuff to work through. So they shed all of those previous regime guys with the exception of Zubach and of Brandon Ingram. And now they had Lonzo Ball. They had Kyle Kuzma. They had Josh Hart. They added in LeBron James. the bench players were all kind of hit and miss former starters some former stars many guys that have been journeymen but the idea was a competitive group and defensively they've been outstanding they don't have enough shooting but also is only year one the lebron james regime

and so in a recent podcast called the low post was zach low genie bus had this to say about the idea that superstars don't want to play with lebron james here's the quote I heard that about Kobe too, Kobe Bryant too. That makes me laugh because if somebody doesn't want to play with the best player playing in the NBA right now, I don't want them on the team. It does feel like a bit of a direct shot at guys like a Kauai Leonard or a Kevin Durant. But it also feels like what you don't want guys that didn't want to be there, they weren't going to be there anyway. But the question should be raised, should they have traded for a Paul George?

Or should they try and move mountains and make some trades now instead of waiting for the office? in hoping, hoping that they get a free agent. You know what we should bring in? We should bring in Catina Mobley, who played 11 years in the NBA. Of course, was on the all-rooky team. Also plays in the big three. Katina Mobley joins us in the herd. What's up, Catina? How you feel, man? I'm great. I'm great.

Okay, look, I got the plan. And I actually like the Lakers more than most people do. I think maybe you had a shooter. You're the second best team in the West because I don't think Houston's is good or Oklahoma City shoots the ball well enough. But there is this sort of discontent with LeBron doesn't have another superstar with him. Do you think eventually he'll get one? I do.

I do. Listen, LeBron is amazing, right? Like, you can tell his absence when they were, what, third or fourth seed, and now he's not there and they're, what, ninth, ten, scratching. So,

I think that superstar will come and help LeBron. It just depends on who, right? So the Kauai Lennards or the Kevin Durants or whoever else in the free agency, I don't know if it's going to be a wing, like the back in the day, Duane Wade-ish kind of thing. Could be the Anthony Davis. They have the same agent. You know what I mean?

I don't know. But I think, you know, when you're dealing with other wings and it's just, of course, I can be wrong, right? I'm just opinion. they're competitive. Yeah. So they want to play against the greatest, opposed to playing with them.

No, that was the whole thing I was told with Durant, which was Durant's whole deal, what he was convinced of was he just didn't have the space to do it when he was in Oklahoma City because they had so many non-shooters. And he thought, like, look, just give me a legit team of legit and let me go against LeBron James.

That's more than legit, though. They may have overdone a little bit. But in the finals, he was, you know, matching up first year, it was a fairly fair fight, and he was better than LeBron. You think that was fair? Yeah. Come on.

Come on. Yeah. They won 73 games before him. You have two of the best shooters ever to play. No question. The game. No question. So they're spreading the floor.

Doug, if you had two or three guys on the wings that no one can leave ever. Yes. And one of them is so the ball handling, the IQ skill, the whole thing. You have Raymond Green and Eagle Dalla and Shonelah and Shorn. on Livingston, who are all point guards, just giving it to them all day long, Kevin Durant, you can literally do what you feel like doing. Yes. So you have no pressure.

Yes. Whereas though, LeBron, you buy yourself. I don't think there's no pressure. I don't think there's no pressure on Durant. No, it's just more free. It's free. It's you don't have to really, you know what I mean? Like, even if you choke up for like two minutes where, you know, in basketball, two

minutes is a, that's a lot of possessions. Yes. You still have Stefan Curry, Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, Igal Dala. and nothing to take it against away from him. Yes. But you can put all your energy into LeBron or on both ends, opposed to where LeBron has to think so much and do so much on the other side as a leader

than what you have to do. That's why I think it's just so unfair for some people to say he dominated him. Well, I mean, look, if you go back, if we go back and relitigate the finals of two years ago, I remember you had Kyrie, you had Kevin Love, right? You did have, and J.R., you had handpicked guys. Those are the guys he picked to create his own space. And look, were the teams, I don't think the Warriors were as good as the 73 wins.

I know they won 73 games, but we also had to factor in that the bottom five or six teams in each conference have decided to tank if you go back to that year. Right. And the Warriors were good, but they also had to reconfigure themselves and configure their bench because you had to part ways with Bogot and you lost Harrison Barnes. And there's no doubt that Durant is better than the two of them combined. but they lost the volume of players that they have so that they had a three-headed monstered superstars. So I thought they were better, but they weren't, I just,

I don't know if they're as, as dominant as people would lead you to believe. It's just a different type. It is different type. Let me tell you why. Really quick. Kyrie Irvin is a dribbler. He's a rhythm guy. Kevin Love, yeah, you're a spot up,

but that's not really you're true, right? You're not coming off screens and doing all that. You're spotting. You're not spacing the floor with the Cleveland Cavaliers like Golden State can space the floor, even if Kyrie or Stefan Curry or Clay Thompson

are missing shots. You're still going to stay with them. So now that gives you more room to do so much more, and you switch on everything. Whereas though, Cleveland, you're not that fortunate to do all those. It's interesting you're bringing that up. Ketino Mowbly, joining me.

I'm Doug Gottlieb in for calling this. This is the Hurd Joy Taylor, alongside it as always. Their ability to switch everything, and hide step. Just hide step as much as we can and everybody else can switch and have great space. It's different with

DeMarcus cousins. Now you have two guys that people can attack defensively. Don't get me wrong. If healthy, he's way better offensively than anybody they've ever had as a score. Bogota, I still think, is wildly underrated because he was a great screener, illegal or otherwise, and a great passer.

And he knew his role. He just kind of stayed out of the way. And he protected interior, you know. Correct. protected the rim. Whereas DeMarcus, they've always played small ball to win. Now they'll have to play with more of a traditional big guy to win if they're going to play him down the stretch. Are they as good a team with DeMarcus cousins as people would lead you to believe? For a fact they are, right? Because Demarcus can play from the high post like a Chris Weber.

He can play at the elbow, the high elbow. He can do exactly what Draymond Green is doing. He just needs time to get his legs underneath him, the confidence back, and see exactly where Clay likes it, Steph likes it, which as soon as they get on the court, they like the ball anywhere, so it doesn't really matter. But you have more point guards

and high IQ guys on that team than I've ever seen on any team ever in my life. Have you seen that? Ikadala, Draymond Green, Sean Livingston, Stephen Curry, you have four guys, now you have Demarcus cousins, you have five guys that are like, literally if they,

had to pass first guys. I don't think DeMarcus cousins a past first guy. No I'm saying if they had to. DeMarcus cousins, he's not going to shoot the ball like he did in New Orleans as much. So because he's with so many guys, you see him yesterday, he's watching the play develop. Steph comes off a curl. He puts it in front of him like a quarterback.

Steph bumps Green, Jeff Green, and one. He's being patient, more patient because that's what he can do. That's Chris Weber. He can do those things. Do you know what I mean? So it makes it easier when you have three or four guys and I could just run around like the chicken with my head cut off. No, no question. I do, I do wonder if Livingston's age catches up to him. Iguadala got hurt last year several times the playoff. If his age catches up to him.

And the difference and cousins right now is cool. It's like your third game back, fourth game back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we come to the NBA finals and hey, do we need you to be a passer and you've never played in a playoff game before. Now you're in the finals. Are you going to do those little things? It'll be fascinating, fascinating to see. I want to ask you about, about Kyrie. It feels like a light switch has gone on, right? He kind of calls out his teammates for not knowing what it takes to get to the mountain top. And it didn't go over well.

Didn't go over well. And so then instead of talking about it, he shows him. Now it's a big game against the Warriors. Not all big games in the NBA, but tomorrow night's a big one. Do you feel like Kyrie, now a starter on the Eastern Conference and the NBA Finals, has taken a different step here recently? I do. I do.

All of us, what I would hope so, right? we all mature the older we get. And, you know, he said it to himself. You know, he's more entitled and spoiled at a very young age. And, you know, I think about it. When LeBron wasn't there, they weren't the best team. They were nowhere near it. They were at the bottom, Kyrie Irvin, Cleveland Cavaliers.

So when LeBron comes back, he teaches Kyrie not only how to win, but how to take care your body, right? How to preserve, how to do this, how to do that. So I think he took that to kind of, it was more of a let's go guys, right? Like before, it was you were the new, you were the cute girl. Now we got to start, you know, doing a little bit better. Now you have to, people know that you're coming here now. So it's the last, what, two weeks, three weeks?

Yep. He's been a monster with him. Yeah, last week he's been a leader. Being a leader, right? Because he's always going to score and pass or whatever, but just being a leader. And I think with them, they were just trying to fit who's the leader. Am I going to still get my shots? This, that, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

The whole thing, where am I going to get my shots at? The rotations, they got so much talent. They're supposed to be like this. Your best season in the NBA was like 2002 with the Rockets, right? You average 21 a game. Do you remember how many shots you took per game? Gosh, I don't know, 17. What would you have been able to do with the,

the number of possessions that James Harden has the ball with a high ball screen, and everybody else is standing going, no, no, no, no, no, don't pass to me. You just go. Let me tell you something funny. You can look at the tapes back then, Steve, myself, AI, and AI was just so much quicker than everybody else. Stevie, Frankie Franchise. Steve Francis, right, Steve Francis, one of my best friends. I love him to death.

I haven't seen him in a while. But when I was dribbling the ball up, before I got to have court, they were sending someone at me. Right. And Tracy was talking about it. Why don't teams run a double-out? I have no clue. I just, listen. You average 18 and a half shots a game.

18-5. 18-5 shots, 5.1 3s a game. So that was, I mean, that was, you guys were kind of ahead of your time in terms of the ball dominance you and franchise. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Franchise being Stevie Thomas. And then you had Kenny Thomas who's like undersized big, like right now. Stevie Francis.

Steve Francis. I'm Steve Francis. Kenny Thomas was like an undersized big, you know. Stretch four kind of thing. Yeah, now he would be a stretch five in today's in today's NBA. Right, right, right. But I just, so when you watch the way that hardened plays, do you like it? It's funny you say that.

I'm a fan of James. I love everything that James does. It wasn't always like this. It doesn't, he was always getting everybody else involved. Listen, there was spot shots and guys were cutting to the basket and he was, you know, lobs to Clint Capella and blah, blah, blah, the whole thing. It just became more of like a more now. ISO thing and they're magnifying that, oh, unassisted 61 points.

He has to do that right now. But let's not get this twisted. He is a really good passer. No, he's a great passer. He's doing what he has to do right now. And what he has to do is dominate. Okay, I guess maybe the better question is, can he change his, you know, Chris Paul comes back, Clint Capella comes back, you get ready for the playoffs.

does this become your default where you're so used to dominating, so used to having the ball, and those guys are so used to waiting for him to create, can they go back to playing where it's he and Chris Paul and getting other guys involved? You can? He's that he's so good offensively that he can know. Listen, he was passing the ball in the beginning last year, year before that, still dominated offensively. He's just got a knack for the free throw line.

Like Corey McGettie. Corey McGarry, I saw, had 27 points and shot the ball five times from the field and had 27. I don't know who does that. Corey McGettie does. James Hardens like that. Well, yes, you don't have 40 and 20 of the points is from the free throw line. I just want to know how many points you would have averaged. If you took 24 shots per game, and you took 13.5 threes per game and 11 free throws per game. I mean, that's beautiful. And you had the ball every time in your hands, high ball screen, everybody else standing outside three point line. You know what? I didn't have that conscience, right? Seriously, I didn't.

Oh, you did or you had a conscience? No, I didn't have that. of I had a conscience. I didn't have that type of, do you have to really have, your narcissism has to be at a certain level. Yes. And not in a bad way. Yes, no, I got it.

Do you do understand what I'm saying? Like, you have to be like, you know what? It's my team. Because you're also going to get your shot blocked. Yeah. You're going to shoot an air ball. You're going to fire a scud up there. Yeah.

And you've got to keep going, keep firing, and believe you're going to make the next ten. And sometimes he does make the next ten. Yeah, yeah. So I text them, they're playing Portland in Portland. And the first half, and he had a terrible first half. And he shot,

literally like nine or ten threes and missed them all. And I was so pissed off. I'm like, I text, I'm like, yo, get to the 15-footer, bro. What are you doing? You're making it so hard. And in the second half, yeah, he, you know, shots from 15-footers, 14, some pull-ups. But, like, it's just that wave of basketball now where it's like either a layup or three.

He can do so much more, even though it seems like he's doing a lot scoring-wise. but his post-up game he don't do starting off in like a Gary Payton his mid-range he don't do where you can open it up Stephen Curry does it Clay Thompson does it Kevin Durant does it so you know you have three phases I have long

short and I mean you know long mid and short yeah it makes it harder for defense to guard you yeah he does get to line he puts you on the defensive great stuff Catino Mobley Ketino thanks so much for catching up yes sir yes sir Ray Mancini is going to join his upcoming next plus we'll talk about a Pro Bowl edition

of best for last, where the guys are going to put my Pro Bowl knowledge to the test. Wait to you hear this one. That's upcoming next in The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

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Like LeBron heading into the playoffs without Luca. and Austin Reed. And finding ways to win no matter what. He's the smartest player to ever play the game. His IQ is at a level that we've never seen before. And he knows. Without Luca and Austin Reeves, I got to manipulate the game.

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we dive into some playoff history too. Steve Nash would get that thing. That man, hell get to flying. He running up the court, licking his fingers, why he got the ball. Like, you go through a training camp with that, I say, you figure it out real quick. Get your ass up and down the court,

and you're going to get the ball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2019. And it's your All-Star Games, Saturday, 8 p.m. Eastern in San Jose. is our Discover Card Key matchup, brought to you by Discover. Get you a free credit scorecard today. Even if you're not a Discover customer, it includes your FICO credit score,

and checking your scorecard won't hurt your credit. Learn more at Discover.com slash credit scorecard limitations apply. Ray Mancini is going to join us. Boom, boom, Mancini is going to join us right here on the set of the herd in a moment. First, let's get to Joy Taylor with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So the NBA All-Star game starters were announced last night. LeBron and Janice are team captains. And with the starters also, of course, come snubs. Despite averaging a career high in points, rebounds, assists, and steals. Anthony Davis was not named a starter. Instead, Paul George locked up the third front court spot in the West. Do you have an issue with that? I think it's mostly just because he's in a smaller market.

I mean, he's hidden away in New Orleans. Oklahoma City's not a small market? I mean, it is, but I feel like the Thunder are Oklahoma City. Well, they're a bigger name team in a small market, right? Because they have Russell, because they have him. It is interesting that Russell Westbrook's not an all-star, all-star starter, and no one's saying anything about, like, there is interesting on some guys' legacy.

I mean, Hall George is a little surprising to me. He's had a great year. But he has had a good year. He's had a great year. 50% of the vote is a fan vote, 25% for the players, and 25% for the media. So that's going to mix some things around. Like, I mean, LeBron's been hurt for a significant amount of time. Steph Curry was hurt.

But I am not surprised at all that he was. Right. It is interesting, though. Some guys' legacies carry them. Right. And some guys don't. You know, look, Steph Curry was hurt, but he's having a great year. Kevin Durant kind of up and down some really good times, some just okay times.

But it is fascinating on how we're talking about how Anthony Davis didn't. Now, Anthony Davis, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I watch every Pelicans game, but I don't think as invested defensively and his team's not winning. Some of that is they, I'm sure they would die to have Rondo back on their team. That's what changed their team kind of last year. But it's fascinating to see what we view as snubs. He'll make the All-Star team, so too will Russell Westbrook. But it is interesting on how fans and players view it. It's going to be interesting when he comes to the Lakers, how much that's going to elevate him. I don't know necessarily.

You just said when he comes to Lakers and then you said you don't know. I know, I know. Look, again, I do think he's coming, but I'm saying I don't think I'm not, I'm like 99% that he's coming because I do feel like if he has the opportunity to, not necessarily the money, but just cement yourself as a legacy icon in a city, even if it is a smaller market like New Orleans, that that does matter at some point in your career towards your legacy. So I don't think it's a lock, although I'm leaning heavily towards him coming to LA. I don't, I don't, I'm not sure I would go lock, okay? I would say in the 90s percentile. Because we have the bread trumps. Right.

I mean, that's why I'm with it. Everyone's talking about it. He has the same agent as LeBron. And why the hell would the Lakers re-sign Contavius Colwell Pope to a contract above his value a second time after he had the DUI last year and it didn't go well? unless there had to be a you know wink wink wink nod nod deal

but just imagine imagine for a second Anthony Davis did not grow up a star player he is not he wasn't LeBron James we didn't know he was a superstar coming out he was a point guard who grew and kept growing in high school so imagine you haven't had and he has a lot of money and he has a lot of stardom

but somebody puts out a piece of paper 230 zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero zero. This is what you can sign for. Guaranteed you will get every single penny if you sign this. And imagine the faith in yourself to say, I'm good. You can trade me to the Lakers. It's a lot of money to turn down. I'm with you. So it's another day. That means another report on Antonio Brown, Mike Tomlin, and the Steelers. According to a new ESPN report from Jeremy Fowler, Tomlin has apparently been telling players he'd tolerate Browns.

antics as long as he's producing at an all-pro level. A former Steelers player said, Tomlin essentially told the group we'll tolerate it now because of what he brings in the field. But the minute the production stops, you don't overlook it. This has been brewing for years. It's just now coming to the surface, and it's probably over. This is very strange managerial approach to me.

It's like they'll have an open marriage. That's basically what this is. You know, look, I'll tolerate it because she's just, she's a 10 and I'm a 6. That's what it feels like. I just don't get it. I don't understand culturally how that makes sense. I don't either. I don't understand the open marriage thing.

Like, you're going to allow your wife to be with other dudes? Like, why be married? But, I mean, the Antonio Brown thing. No, but I don't. I mean,

it's just, it's like what messages that send the rest of the team? What messages that send younger players on your team? And why do you expect Antonio Brown to ever change how he acts at that? If he's going to continue to perform at that level, he has no fear. Like, he's going to do whatever he wants.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. I understand Antonio Brown's responsible for, his own actions. But I do think the culture that you establish at your organization matters. And all this tells me if this is true is that it's not. Like this is, you just, you're at the whim of your players that this is how you approach things. Which is, which is why the Steelers, traditionally, and the NFL teams have, have not signed long-term, huge guaranteed deals because they want to be able to control egos like this, because they don't, they believe that if you pay a guy, you get guaranteed money, not all guys. But like the Rams have gone all in on, on paying people.

Yes, but most of it is. No question, but it's like a lot of one-year deals. Right, but I also think that their culture, like I think they've taken on the culture that Sean McVeigh has set, which is we are pro-player, we are a little more progressive and all that, but we're also here for one mission. Like we all have big names here, but let's all make it happen, and I don't think that's happening with the Steelers.

Finally, Bill Belichick doesn't like to reveal things before big games. Sean McVeigh, a little bit different. He was a little more open when discussing how he plans to slow down Tom Brady in the Super Bowl. Yeah, it's a great challenge. I mean, there's a reason why he's arguably one of the greatest of all time because, you know, he does an excellent job of identifying whatever defensive structure you're in, whether you want to pressure, whether you want to try to put pressure with a four-man rush and play loaded zone

or some man principles behind it. He's got such an ownership on being able to get the ball out of his hand in a timely manner, and then he's got guys that can separate. That's going to be a key to try to, you know, get him off of his rhythm, which not many people have success doing. pretty elaborate Sean McVeigh way of saying we got to get hands on Tom Brady yeah and you got to pressure him off the middle you got to pressure him off his spot yeah he just mentioned a bunch of cool football terms

but basically we're going to need endomuk and sue to flatten him one good time good enough that's joy taylor with the news well that's the news and thanks for stopping by the herd lie news ray boomo mancini is a fox sports boxing analyst and of course a pbc fight night uh Saturday that's tomorrow January 26 comes to Foxy joins us now in the herd here on Fox Sports Radio and the IHeart Radio app. Boom, boom. I wanted to ask you about Keith Herman. Of course, he hasn't fought in like two years.

Right. Two years, two years of a layoff. Hazito Lopez, who's going to fight against. Look, I know that he's a WBA welterweight champion, but two years of rust of being in the ring. And I know you can spar. How much do you think that affects him in this fight? Well, it's going to affect him a lot. It's got to.

because he's a, first of all, his style fighting. Like me, I was a pressure fighter. So if I came out, as long as I was off, was nine months and it affected me, it's going to take a couple hours for him to get reacclimated to the ring. If he was a boxer like a Ray Leonard type, you could do that.

But this guy needs to throw punches right from the jump. If I'm Joseito Lopez, the opponent, I jump on him right from the get. Is that his style? Joseito Lopez? Joseito Lopez is a pressure fighter, but you got to jump on him quick. Keith Derman likes to move around,

set the pace nice to control center ring create distance if I'm like said Jose de lopez I don't allow him to do that we saw mani packeye the only guy that Adrian I thought that Adrian Broner won was Adrian Broner right like somebody like Adrian like Adrian like no no so I'm watching Pac-Man I'm watching fight and I'm thinking we're gonna get Mayweather Pack Yow again aren't we we're gonna are we gonna get it again why

because people are gonna buy it it's gonna make a lot of money I wouldn't walk across the street to see that fight. I wouldn't walk across street to see that fight. I have no interest in it. It was a stinker the first time. And when you stink that bad, I can't get no worse. So it's got to be better. And I know business-wise, yeah, 4 million, you watch the first time.

If you get a million people to watch it this time, it's a success. But it means nothing to the boxing game. It means nothing, as far as I'm concerned. I've done this. So I've done this radio thing for over 15 years. And sometimes it's just as a tree. I'll say, who's the heavyweight champion in the world? Right. And people, you know, people won't know.

That's really what's changed in boxing. Right. Because the fighters are better. They're still great in the lighter belts. There's incredible, incredible fights. But the heavyweight champion used to be what we would all, our parents would finally, all, buy the fight because it's the heavyweight champion. Right. Is Wilder that guy?

It's Gianty Wilde, because he's a great athlete and he's so big and long and angular. Is he that guy that we've been waiting for? Well, I like him. I like him because he's exciting. He's a big, tall guy who throws punches. You know, he comes at you. He throws punches from all angles. He's exciting for me. I enjoy watching Deontan Wilder.

Yes. You know, but it's funny you said that, because people often say to me, where's the next great American heavyweight? Yeah. I said he's probably playing in the NBA. People say, I'm about the great next white heavyweight. I said, he's in the NFL.

Because if you're a good athlete and most of these guys, you know, are great athletes, why wouldn't you be in a team sport where you get guaranteed contracts? and you know, you've got security and you got unions and all that stuff. So when you retire, you have a pension, all that stuff. So that's why we don't see the best athletes anymore. But the fighters, they are better athletes than once were, but they're not better fighters.

I've long believed, and this is just a non-fighter's belief, that Mayweather is really, really cunning, really smart. Yeah. In that the last five or six years, maybe seven or eight years, he hasn't. fought a fight that he could lose. No. Like, there's no way he could lose to a guy who's never been in a boxing match before. But he allowed you to believe, hey, wait a second, maybe I could. He didn't fight Pachial until Pachial was past his prime. He then fought an MMA fighter. Like, I think he's, but at the height of his brilliance, is he, in fact, the best fighter you've ever seen? No. No. People always say to me, I said, Floyd Special, there's no dispute. He's a special talent.

They said all time. He said all time. Top 30, 40. They look at you. I said, are you kidding me? You're talking about the great kid Gavilland, Ike Williams, Charlie Burley. These are fighters of the 30s and 40s, 50s. They would have put him in their back pocket and used them for change.

Are you kidding me? He would have never got away with that stuff with that shoulder roll. They had made him pee blood for a month. Come on, man. Stop. He's a great talent. He's the best of the 12-round era. 12-round era.

Could he go 15? We don't know. He never had to. We'd like to think he could. But we never had to. And in the last three rounds, which were known as the true championship rounds, you know, 13, 14, 15 changed the course of history of boxing. From Joe Lewis would never be Billy Kahn if it was only 12 rounds because Joe Lose knocked him out 13. Rocky Marcellar. Wouldn't have beat Joe Walcott.

He was losing going to the 13th. And Ray Leonard was way, way behind Tommy Hurons going into the 14th round of their first fight. That's why the true championship distance is 15 rounds. All right. If I make you, Commissioner of All Things Boxing. Okay. I'm exhausted now. I love it. No, I love it.

I love it. No, I love watching you on PBC Fight Night. The Great Ray Mancini joining us. Of course, you can check that out. It's tomorrow night on Fox. If I say, you're the commissioner, you can create one dream fight that everybody's going to watch. Who is it right now? From past and present?

No, right now, present. Oh, present? You can't dig up dead bodies. Okay, no, no. Okay, two fights. Two fights. I'd like to see, you know, the great Wal-Dweight Division now. You've got to put the weight class, though, too.

Okay, waterweight, great waterweight division. I like to see Earl Spence and Terrence Crawford. And the other fight, I know Mikey Garcia is moving up to fight, Earl Spence, and that's going to be a terrific fight. I admire Mikey Garcia for what he's doing. But for me, Loma Chenko and Michael Garcia would be the other fight. So Crawford, Spence, Loma, and Mikey Garcia. Remember, WBA, Weltaway champion, Keith Thurman, taking on Joseita Lopez.

Keith Herman, two-year layoff, Josea, Lopez, as Boom, told us, pressure fire like boom boom was in his own right should be a great one to watch that's BBC fight night on Fox right thanks so much for joining us the history lesson the energy I love it that's it I'm done you're not done we got other things for you to do don't worry

don't move coming up next they're going to put my my Pro Bowl knowledge to the test see if I can tell which pro bowl moments are real and which ones are just creations of the production team's imagination that's next and the best for last

be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottliebine for calling this to Hurd, Joy Taylor, kind of have to put up with me for the last three hours. Thanks so much for making us part of your day. Speak for yourself. I'm coming on Fox Sports One. My show upcoming on Fox Sports Radio. The Pro Bowl is this Sunday. I know, I know. Calm your excitement. Listen, I'm not going to sit here and tell you when you should or should not bet on sports. I will tell you that the Pro Bowl, if you've been, if you're betting on the Pro Bowl, it's like if you're betting on WNBA, like that's the time in which you, you, you got a

problem. You need to dial it back and have somebody talk to you about things. But the game features so many NFL stars, you would think you'd have immediate memories to, I mean, look, as much as as Major League Baseball's All-Star game isn't what it once was. Think about the All-Star game moments you can think of in Major League Baseball, Bo Jackson's home run, for example. Right? Ted Williams in the golf cart as everybody comes out to greet him. I feel like Wade Boggs hit a big home run. Of course, Ray Flossy getting taken out by Pete Rose at home plate. Like you remember baseball, All-Star Game moments?

You remember basketball, all-star game moments? What about football? The crew wants to test my knowledge of the Pro Bowl. Let's get after it. It's tied to see if Doug can remember which unforgettable Pro Bowl moments really happen. And which moments we totally made up in a meeting earlier this morning. Get ready to play. Pro Bowl or Schmobo.

I like it. Schmobol. Schmobol. All right. Did this Pro Bowl moments actually happen? The year 2004. Legendary Colts quarterback Peyton Manning sets the all-time Pro Bowl record by throwing 342 passing yards in a performance nobody would ever forget.

And I mean ever. Doug, Pro Bowl or Schmo Bowl? I'm going to go Schmoble. I'm going to go Schmoble. I don't think that that really happened. Yes. Payton's passing Yards record still stands. I can't believe he was in the game that long.

That's the part that I don't. And I can't believe he didn't turn down the Pro Bowl. Okay. All right. Next one. Did this Pro Bowl moment actually happen? The year 2014. Long before Nick Fools becomes known as a Super Bowl NBA.

He takes home an equally important title. Pro Bowl MVP. It's a performance that nobody has ever, ever, ever forgotten. 2014, that's back when he was with the Eagles. He had that great year. I'm going to go. It happened. I'm going to say it happened.

It did happen. Foles came in after halftime for Dionne Sanders team. He went 7 of 10 for 89 yards on touchdown. He won offensive MVP, even though his team lost the game at 22 to 21. So you got the Jerry West, right? Winning even though his team lost? Winning MVP even though his team lost. Who knew?

I knew. That's who. Yes. You guessed correctly. Did this pro bowl moment actually happen? The year 2000. Legendary NFL receiver Terrell Owens puts on one of the greatest displays of receiving ever. Racking up 212 yards in a game that nobody will soon forget, except possibly Doug Gottlie.

Doug, did it actually happen? All right, so we had two that happened. I'm going to go, this did not happen. You're right. Yeah. The numbers were correct. The year was correct, 2000, but it was actually Randy Moss, who has that record, which still stands. So Tio got Mossed in that one.

Yes. Yes. All right, very clever. Did this pro bowl moment actually happen? The year 2005. Tom Brady enters the game after halftime as the backup to starting quarterback Peyton Manning. He goes on to throw a pick, and then, never plays in a Pro Bowl ever again.

Did that actually happen? 2005? She never plays in a Pro Bowl. I'm going to say, no, it did not happen. Oh! Tom Brady hasn't appeared in a Pro Bowl since 2005 because he's been busy preparing for the game that actually matters, which is the Super Bowl. I like that. Makes sense. All right, did this Pro Bowl moment actually happen? The year 2012. In an offensive explosion for the ages, the AFC and NFC combined.

for a record 139 points. With the AFC pulling out the win 71 to 68 on a last second field goal by Sebastian Janakowski. Everyone definitely remembers that one. I'm going to say no way. I would have remembered 71.68. You're right. The game never happened.

We made it up at Schmoble. Most total points scored was in 2004 and that was 107 NFC beat the AFC 55-52. Honestly, didn't know that either to be totally can. Well, now you know. Okay. All right. Finally.

Did this pro ball moment actually happen? In 1999, Bill Belichick appears as head coach for the AFC. But he's not representing the Patriots or the Browns. He's representing the New York Jets. Surely nobody will ever forget that happen, right? I'm going to say it, oh, 1999. It happened. Yes.

He filled in for then had. The Jets head coach Bill Parcells. Belchick was the defensive coordinator for the Jets, AFC 1, 23 to 10, and the NFC head coach was Dennis Green. Dennis the late Dennis Green. Wow. So what did I end up? I end up three and three or four and two or five and one?

Can I fully disclose something? What? I've never actually seen a play of the Pro Bowl live. You've never watched any of the Pro Bowl. Not a play live. I went to the Pro Bowl when you're in Hawaii. Well, Jason was in the Pro Bowl six times. That makes sense.

But I do not watch the Pro Bowl anymore. admittedly. I love, I love, it's one of those things. It's like, uh, colonies just say this about women's basketball, right? Love women, love basketball, women's basketball. I'm not, not a huge fan of. Like, I love football. I love Hawaii.

I never watched, never, never watched, uh, I mean, I don't, I feel this way about all, all, all star games. I'm with you. I feel like the skills challenge is in Orlando. I know. It's in Orlando. I know. far more interesting than the actual game. Like I watched the home run derby.

I watched the three point contest and the dunk contest. The skills challenge, like videos are interesting. But the actual game, to me, it's not really a game because you're not playing, most of them are not playing defense. Everyone's trying to not get injured. Yes. So. But the other part, too, that's a big part for football.

That's why I've never been going to watch football. Baseball, so pitchers can't go. They can throw, but they're not going to throw really hard. Right. And you're not going to pitch a guy for eight, seven, eight innings. But the other part that's ruined it is we can all see these guys play on TV. Like in baseball

we used to not be interleague play. So you wouldn't see these guys. Now you can see them all play. Plus you had the league package. You can see them. In football, now you can watch if you can't watch every team play, that's on you. Right? There's just no investment. So you've seen most of these guys play. Basketball is the one

that should be better because playing defense, you're not really running a true risk of injury. I do think if you have kids who are big fans of football going to Pro Bowl is probably a fun experience for them because you probably get to spend time around them and go. Yeah, but there's probably a good fan experience. When you went, yeah, with fan.

Okay, yeah. Because I was just going to say, no, no, I'm saying like fans of football going, like if you have kids. Yeah, but did Jason want to hang out with fans? I mean, honestly, I mean, I don't remember. It is big for the, no, no, I'm saying like at the skills challenge. Oh, yeah. During the game, they probably have a lot of fun fan experiences going on similar to what goes on with the Super Bowl.

You know what I mean? So going to the Pro Bowl as a fan is probably. We've covered a lot of stuff. We've covered a lot of ground. Pro Bowl won't watch, but I am, I can't wait to watch the Super Bowl. And I do think that Brady, in his greatness, if you win, why not drop the mic and walk out a winner after an unbelievable win in Kansas City and what would be a win against the team that everybody thinks has the talent to win it and all year in the Rams? So we go. Call and be back on Monday for Joy Taylor. I'm Doug Gottlie. Have a great weekend. This is the hurt. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning,

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