The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Trevor Ariza Part 1

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

Shannon Sharpe shoots the breeze with NBA champ Trevor Ariza at Club Shay Shay. Trevor Ariza talks about playing alongside legends Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Harden, and Chris Paul. He discusses the Clippers' star-studded experiment headlined by Russell Westbrook, Paul George and Kawhi Leonard. Brace yourself – he's doing a reverse layup by picking Kobe over LeBron. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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LeBron James is the oldest player in the NBA. One B. Kobe one day. One B. On my life. Grinning all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price.

Want a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why all my life. I be grinding on my life. All my life. Been grinding on my life. Pay the price. One a slice.

Hello, welcome to another edition of Club Sheesh. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the reprout of Club Shea She and the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today is an 18-year NBA vet. He's a champion of the 2009 Lakers. He's top 30 all-time in steals, one of the original 3-&D guys, a UCLA alum, a part of the 2004 Pact 10, all-freshment team. 2003, Mr. California basketball, California high school state champion.

He's L.A. through and through. Trevor Reed. Tream. What's up, bro? Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. How you being, man? Man, I've been chilling, man.

So a guy that plays 18 years in the NBA, obviously you used to having a schedule. And if I'm not mistaken, this is probably your first year out. So what does an 18-year veteran do now to fill the time that he normally would be doing playing basketball? Man, that's crazy because as I was getting closer and closer and closer to the end of my career, that's what my friends that had retired years prior to me was telling me, telling me like you get a lot of free time. So I had kind of a guide to learn how to, you know, manage my time.

Right. So spending more time with my children, I was able to do that. And I have a couple of other like projects that I was able to invest my time into. So, you know, going back and forth to the islands and putting the majority of my time in with my three children has been where most of my time is going to. Do you miss it? Do I miss it? Not really. I don't really miss it because you know, every day I'm with my son and he's

in the gym a lot. So I don't have the like I'm not like starving to go back out there on the court and go play. Because like as you started to get older your body kind of started to break down. You started to get injuries. And when you start to get

injured, it's hard to summers it up because you spend more time rehabbing than you do training. And what you want to do that you know the time is nearing the end. You just want to play basketball and you're not playing. You're in the training room where you're getting surgeries or you're doing all of this. Did that start to wear on you mentally? Mentally, yeah, I think I had a bone spur in my right foot.

And just trying to get back into the groove being like the age that I was at, it wasn't comfortable. Right. It was agony. It wasn't fun no more. So my mind is telling me I can do certain things. but my body isn't allowing me to do the things. Isn't responding.

That's when I knew it was like, all right, you know, it's time to go sit down and save some legs for your jits. Yeah. Save some legs for your jits. You mentioned you had a son and I see where he's following in your footsteps, has offers from UCLA, USC, Washington. How tall is he and how good is he? He's 6'8 right now.

Wow. So we're around the same height and how good he is. He has unbelievable talent. He's ultra, ultra, ultra talented. Bouncy? He's pretty bouncy. He's getting more athletic as he gets in the weight room a little bit more. He's still young, really young.

He's still only 15 years old. So, you know, he's learning how to work on his game. He's learning how to love or fall in love with the process of the things that you might not like to do when, you know, you're pursuing a dream. When you were playing, how locked in was he to what you were doing? And he's like, did you think that like, you know what? You might want to follow what dad does? Or do you's like, okay, I'm going to let him choose whatever he wants to do.

I'm just going to support him either way. Yeah, no, that's never been my thing to push anybody to do anything. They kind of got to want to do it for themselves because to play or to do something at an extremely high level, can't nobody do that for you. You've got to want to do that on your own. Right. So I kind of just allow him to, you know, play with it a little bit until he came to me and was like, yo, dad, this is serious. You know, I really, really, really want to do this. And then, you know, with the experience that I have, I was able to kind of show him some of the steps that he needs to take and how hard it actually was going to be. Right.

And the sacrifices that you was going to have to give up to achieve the things that you want. So you and I were talking earlier on camera and you said like where Sulfi was, that's where you. you used to play football. Yeah. So obviously you play football, you play basketball. Has he done anything other than play basketball? Yeah, he played football at the same part. Okay, wow.

Yeah, he played baseball. He's a really good athlete, smart kid. He can do a little bit of everything. So you're one of these dads that believe that a child should do multiple things instead of just specializing in one thing because we see a lot of kids, all they do is play football, all they do is play basketball, all they do is play baseball. You believe playing multiple sports make the kid more well-rounded. Yeah, it definitely does.

I was a kid that played multiple sports. My favorite sport coming up was football. You know, I just love the contact. I like to hit. I like to score touchdowns and all that stuff. But I end up outgrowing it. Got too tall, I thought, I am in my frame. Yeah, yeah.

My frame didn't allow for me to continue down that path. So, you know, more sports was good. You said he's 15, 6, 8, about your same height. A game of one-on-one, we play into a level. Who win it? I'm going to kick his ass. You can't let it beat your trail. Nah, hell no.

That's out. So at 15, let's go back. You at 15, your son at 15. Who's better at this age? He has more skill, for sure. Right. Because he has someone teaching him as opposed to you. I just think as time.

goes on, you evolve. Yeah, right. And when I was coming up, you know, the game or the skill was completely different. You had to actually be a dog. And I feel like that's where I'm going to kick his ass on. I'm a

dog. So, because you are a three and D guy. You're a guy that can shoot the three, but you're mainly known for your defensive prowess. So how, what are you trying to instill in your son? Because a lot of these kids, I see now they're focusing on the offensive end because that's where you get the glory. That's where you get the

limelight. So are you trying to like, look, son, you got to play both ends of the court. You just can't Yeah, well, he's a competitor on his own. He don't really like to lose. So anytime he has a challenge or if he is playing against another one

of the top players, he takes that challenge on his own. It's not even something that you know, I got to instill in him. He has that on his own. That's natural. That comes natural to him. You said your son is, you know, we talked about evolution. What's the biggest difference that you see with kids in the game of basketball today as when you were that same age in the game of basketball?

Again, there is, so the era is more social. You know, it's social, but it's not social. Right. And what I mean by that is Internet social instead of like personal social. Yes, yes. So like they miss. People are texting and not actually talking. Right.

So you missed that kind of, you know, connection. Going outside and playing with the homies all day, riding your bike to the park or riding your bike to, you know, whatever school that's close to get to the gym. They're not really getting that. You know, we driving them everywhere. They're in the gym. They got trainers.

You know, they're doing, it's more like a business than it was just, you know, for the love. Right. And that's the biggest difference. I'm looking at you. And your son played against LeBron's son, Bronny, Gilbert Arena son, MasterPee's son, you were an ex-professional athlete. How do you tell your son how to approach it when he's playing against other celebrity

kid? I don't think it's a difference, man. You treat everybody the same. You treat people with respect, but you still got to try to break their fucking neck on the court. I mean, that's what it is. It's competition. And you want to impose your will on the next player.

You may be cool, y'all might be, like, friendly or friends or whatever the case may be, but on the court, it's no friends. Right. How strange is it to see your son playing against LeBron James Jr., considering you played against LeBron James Sr.? Yeah. It's crazy. It's really full circle, you know, and that's the beauty about sports and, like, you know, having offspring. You get to actually watch them. It's almost like playing the video game.

So the things that you may have done then, you can kind of like, you know, say, hey, yo, look, try to do it this way or think about it like this. So you get a second chance at reliving moments in this type of space right here. So what type of parent are you? Are you kind of like, you know,

I think now in the social media area, we get era, we get Levar Ball, or although there was no social media, or are you more like Dale, Curry. Because they'll just sit back, fold his arm, watch Steph, watch his son, watch, do what they do. Bar was telling you, mellow like this, jello like this, zo like this, all my boys like this. They go to one team, guaranteed championship multiple. What type of, what type of dad is Trevor Reza? The type of dad that I am is the only person

that is responsible for the success is him. Right. I don't have to go out and brag to a a whole bunch of motherfuckers. I'm not on that. So, like, everything that I try to do is I try to instill in my son what he has to do. So it's not going to be, like, you know, I'm not going to project my, like, what I see in him. Right. On people, he's going to have to do that on his own with his game. You know, I'm just going to feed it to him. That's the type of parent I am.

Why did you think at 15 years of age he needed the NIL deal? That's kind of... How can I say this? He's young. He's really young. And to me, it's a bit early. But in this day and age, you never really could like say what's too early and what's not early. The good thing for him is, you know, he gets an opportunity to see what it is, see what he likes, see what he don't like.

and he's so young that he can still make decisions to do whatever he wants to do. How receptive is he to your coaching? Because a lot of times you still his dad. Yeah, you're an ex-basketball player, but you're his dad. Yeah. And it seems sometimes I know when I have my son, he seemed to be a little bit more receptive to somebody else telling him what he needed to do as opposed to me because he could not see all he saw was his dad. It was trying to tell him something. And if somebody else told him the same thing, he's like, oh, okay, I get it now.

It's the same thing. That's universal, man. I don't think that changes for anybody. But the one thing that I do notice is that when he sees, like, what I do tell him, he comes back to me and I was like, all right, dad, you was right about that, dad. And I just looked at him and I kind of laugh at him. I'm looking at California basketball. California, because I had, hold on, DeMarie de Rosen.

And I said, well, who you got? California basketball a New York basketball Who I got? I'm homegrown, bro. I'm always going to be loyal to the soil. I don't know. I'm looking at that.

I'm looking at that. Okay, Kareem, I mean, New York got Karene, Michael, Jordan, Mello, Ron Artez, Dr. J., Stefan Marbury, Lamar Odom. You guys got Bill Walton, Reggie Miller, Jason Kidd, Ray Allen, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, Kauai,

Clay, Dane, James Hardin. I mean, as far as volume, Y'all got them. Killers. But, man, I think Kareem and Jordan alone going to take out like 14 of you guys. So now it comes down to Doctor Jim. What y'all going to do with Mello and Dr. J?

Man, Mellow is tough. Mello probably like up there in like the three. The top three in New York, huh? But, you know, like on a whole, I think we just got way more killers than them. Yeah. Let's talk about the Clipper situation. recently they acquired James Harden.

So now you pair James Hardin with Russ who's playing extremely well and he's been playing well since he got to the Clippers last year. You got Kawhi, you got PG. Do you think they needed James Hardin and what's going on? Why hasn't it been able to mesh so far? So in basketball or in team sports,

as you know, chemistry is the biggest thing that you have to overcome. Right. James didn't go through training camp with them so he didn't get a chance to like to even get acclimated to what they're doing it's going to take a while for them to figure out what they're doing period

you know they've been going through injuries throughout their seasons we're having PG and Kauai already so hopefully this year somewhere 20 games they'll get a chance to mesh together and figure it out does someone need to come off the bench can all four of those guys start

No, they can't really. I mean, that's just the reality of shit. It's not an all-star game. Right. So what they got to figure out is how, who and what, who's going to have a ball. Right. Who's going to play a role? Right.

Who's going to sacrifice. Right. And, you know. Well, how hard is it? Because James Hart has been an MVP. Russell Westbrook has been an MVP. Kauai Leonard is a two-time finals. MVP. Paul George has been an all

NBA player. So you try to bring all these personalities together. And like you said, Russ and James need the ball. Now, who's going to have the ball late in the ball game? Good thing. I don't have to worry about that. But that's the question that they have to figure out as a team. Like, for 10 games,

do I have the ball? Or does James have the ball? For 10 games, do Russ have the ball? Does Y have the ball? Does PG have the ball? Like, how do you figure that out? Right. That's kind of like, I guess, as a team who's going to impose their will? Who's going to be the dominant player to be like, nah, let me see, because I'm going to will us to this.

But that don't seem like wise personality. Now, I could be wrong. You played against him, but when I look at him from a distance, he doesn't seem like a guy that's going to call a team meeting and says, hey, this is what needs the effing happen? He doesn't seem the guy that's going to bring the huddle together and says, guys, look, we're going to run this right here.

You're going to get me the ball right there, and I'm going to go make him. He doesn't strike me. I could be wrong. Like I said, I'm just looking at it from a distance. He doesn't strike me as that. That seems more like a Russ to say, okay, this is what we're going to do as opposed to anyone else. You know him.

You played against him for decades. Who is like that? Let me see. I would have to say Russ probably is more of like an alpha when I look at that group. But again, that might not necessarily be true. knowing Kauai I know he is a dog in every aspect of the word

so they got to figure that shit I'm just happy you're not on the team happy to try to figure it out of love with him yeah for sure so when you heard Hardin says I'm not his system player

I'm the system I'm a system considering that you're not going to be the James Hardin that was in Houston because you got three other all-stars with you and you're not, I don't believe he's that same player because I think some of his athleticism has Wayne and like you said, he didn't get a training camp

so he's not in the peak condition to be able to get by people. Kawai ain't finished to stand around and let you be the system. PG ain't going to stand around and let you be the system. So how does James change his way of thinking in order to make this thing work? Well, I think that's up to them players. If he's coming in with that mentality, it's up for them to, change it. Okay. Like if I'm going into a situation and I've been the guy like my whole career

and my whole time, right. Only way I'm changing it is somebody make me change it. Right. And if that's, you know, the stance he's going to take, it's up for that team to figure out how they're going to get him to come into whatever they're doing to switch that up. If not, they're going to have a problem. You know what? You're the perfect person that I got you here. You You played with James Harden to Houston. Yeah. What's he like in the locker room? Because we hear these stories.

Staying over late in a city, going to Vegas in off days. What's James Harden like? James, I guess what people don't know is James will work his ass off. Like, after practice, he's running sprints. Before practice, he's shooting. He's getting his

treatment. He's lifting weights after games. What he's doing is personal life and his personal business, that's That's up to him. Like, nobody should give a fuck about that. You're cool with that. So you're cool if he like opt-outes and to Vegas or, you know, because he doesn't seem like I said, I mean, from the video,

like I said, that social media gets you in trouble. Because they put everything on social media. He in the club, he's popping bottles, he got them honeys around him. Is that conducive for winning a championship? Because at the end of the day, for him, that's the only thing that's left to prove. He's them proving that he's one of the best players. He's the top 75 player. Where you want to rank him as far as two guards,

Obviously, the two top spots belong to Jordan and COVID. So if you want to say he's better than Wade, a lot of people are going to fight you on that and say Wade is the third best because Wade got championships and yada, yada, yada, yada. But he's a top, whatever you want to say. Only thing left is a championship. Can you win? Should he?

Like, you know what, guys, I don't got this part in. I'm going to be able to get that part in again. Let me go on to get this championship. Let me focus on this. I'm going to give up the strip club. I mean, I know that hard. But, you know, I'm going to give up some of the, Like you said, you told your son, he's got a sacrifice.

What's it worked to you? Yeah. Some people, I guess, some vices work for people, you know, and trying to... Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football,

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One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

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On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policicic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team.

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wherever you get your podcast. Change a player's game in a ninth inning. That's not going to help nobody. Right. Right. So, you know, however he decides to live his life, when if it comes a time where he feels like he wants to make a change, that's on him.

Right. And, like, everybody's going to have an opinion. So the idea for us as athletes, fuck everybody else's opinion or what I got to do. As long as I'm doing what I need to do and helping myself or helping my team doing the things that I've been doing,

I can't really listen to what anybody else have to say. The peanut gallery is always going to be that. Right. How difficult is it for a player to change his off-court behavior when he's had success doing it that way basically his entire career? It's going to be tough. You've got to get humbled in a way.

Right. You know, and a lot of the times when people stumble across things that humble them, they start to look for ways to change and to fix things. I mean, he goes to Houston. He had individual success, and he had some great players. He had Chris Paul. He had the White Howard. He had, okay, it didn't work there.

Well, I want out. For whatever reason, I don't know the reason, but he wanted out. He goes to Brooklyn. He has KD. He has Karee. It doesn't work for whatever reason. I don't know the reasons. He goes to Philly.

He has arguably this. I think Yokic is the best player in basketball, let alone big. I think he's the best player. He probably, he up, Yokic is one of the best. But I feel like right now Anthony Edwards is the best player right now.

Yeah. On his team? Anthony Edwards is a fucking dog. He's the best player on the Timberwood. Yeah, I agree with that. I feel like he's the best player in the league right now. He's my favorite player in the league right now. How about that?

Why? Why didn't it work in those places for James? Think about what, KD's is the top is an all 75 player. Chris Paul is an all 75 player. I think, I believe, for me personally, I think the White Howard should have been on the 75th anniversary team. Why didn't it work? I mean, it don't work for everybody all the time.

A lot of people don't win. And the team that we had in Houston was a really good fucking team. Right. We just ran into the best team of the decade at the time. Right. You had a nine three two trout. Yeah. And then one of the top 75 players, first ballot Hall of Famers got hurt.

Right. You know, and, you know, we, I don't know, shit on the money. There was a situation when Chris Paul and James Hardin, they were in Houston. There was a timeout. And Chris was trying, I guess Chris was trying to tell him something, and James Harham slapped his hand. You were in, though. So what's going through your mind when you see that happen? What's going?

Let me see. I got to think back to the play. When was that? Do you know? I wasn't in a playoffs. Yeah. Okay. So probably in a playoff situation,

Chris is a communicator through all things. Right. James isn't much of a communicator. So I think with Chris being more of a communicator and James more of an art, I get it. You know, let's move on. I think in a situation like that, it's just two difference of opinions on how shit should go. How was your interactions with Darryor Morrow?

Darrell. Darrell is, I guess, a businessman. He's not a bad dude. He's just, you know, he is a businessman, and he going to do what's best for the business at all times. Because if you think about it, he gave James Harden to Max when, I'm not so sure a lot of other teams would have been willing to give a sixth man the max and gave up, you know, gave up, you know, compensation to get him. I don't think he got the max when they got him.

Well, he got the max for what he could get. Yeah. Yeah. And so now, Darren Marys in Houston, and he builds everything around James. James is cooking. When's MVP, yada, yada, yada, going to All-Star. He's all-N-B-A. He's making a name for himself.

He was like said, he might be a better score than Jordan. might be a better score than Kobe. He goes to, you know, Philly. You know, he's like, I want him in Philly,

and they bring him in Philly. What happened? How did it sour between Darabori and Arden? That situation, you know, I don't never really speak

on other people's situation like that, so I don't really know. But what I do know is get into Max, he earned that. Right. However many times he got it, he earned that.

Right. And I know for the time that he was the MVP or scoring all the points, he earned the league in those teams. He played for a shit ton of money. And this is a business. Right. So, and as far as, like, the business aspect, he checked that box off when it comes to doing what he needed to do.

Us as competitors and athletes, the thing that he hasn't done is win a championship, but every great player don't win all the time. Right. So we got to kind of not really, I mean, we can't judge him on that. Right. But is it really, really, really fair to judge an individual on if they're going to win a championship if it's a team sport? Right. So my thing to you, as you start to get older, you realize that you have less time.

Should he have given money back to Philly? Fuck, no. What? There's no such thing as giving money back. Right. No, because they're not, when they take it from us, when they finance, they don't give it back. Right. So, no.

And see, and I think that might be the crooks because, you know, hey, if you take less money, we'll be able to get this player. But you taking money from a millionaire, but a billionaire got it. Not even that. It's not his job to fix or work through the salary cap. It's the general manager and that franchise's job to figure out the best way to work and construct that team through the salary cap. And if you decide to give a player to max, it's not his job. give money back. No, you ain't no money.

Nah, fuck no. Let me ask you this. You've been a part of culture. We hear the term culture or the heat culture. I mean, the Patriot Way and this and the back. Being a part of a winning culture and a losing culture. What's the biggest difference? Habits, things that people are going to accept, your team holding you accountable,

your teammates holding you accountable. That's number one. If your teammates don't hold you accountable, then, you know, you don't really, you're going to be a bad organization. If you don't have no vets, you're going to be a shitty organization. So why are teams so willing to get rid of vets? Because I've heard a lot of people,

not just basketball, but in football also, the older guy that's trying to kind of showing the younger guys how and how not to do things. So why are teams and franchises so willing to move on from vets and have, oh, we got eight guys that's under the age of 20? Probably because they're cheaper. Okay. It's a business, right?

At the end of the day, and your bottom line is what's important. Now, this is just my thought process. It might not be, you know, what it is. But I would think that's the reason. Whose responsibility is it to create that culture? Is it the star player? Is it the coach? Is it the general manager?

Is it the franchise? Whose responsibility is that? I think the responsibility is the organizations, led through the coach. through your vets. That's, I think the pecking order it should be in, but I definitely believe that the fact that there's not a lot of vets in the league anymore and throughout whatever, all sports,

I think that kind of helps bad teams stay bad. Right. How disciplined, you know, you hear that. Now, I don't believe any successful per, I don't believe you can be successful without discipline. Fact. Which requires you to do your very best when no one else is watching. So how hard is it to be disciplined,

hold people accountable, while still having fun? Being able to put everything in the right place, compartmentalize, I call it. Understand there's a time and a place for everything. When you commit to something, that's first and foremost. You're going to have fun doing what you're doing. If you love what you're doing, it's going to be fun.

Playing basketball should be fun because that's what you wanted to do with your time. Exactly. So everything else is extra. You played with Kobe. Yeah. One of the most disciplined mofos, rest is soul. One of the most discipline, the most important thing was basketball. It was no BS.

And if you were going to help Kobe win no championship, if he saw you, bro, it drove him crazy. Yeah. He probably wouldn't talk to you if he didn't feel like he was on the path that he was on. And, you know, I understand that because like-minded people usually connect, you know. Did you understand it at the time or as you moved away from it? I understood it before the time. Right. You know, I come from a winning program, high school.

You know, my friends, the people that I played high school basketball, we held each other accountable. Right. And through holding each other accountable, we all, you know, end up going Division I. So I understood that from a young age. How was Kobe able to build a championship locker room? Because I'm looking, you play with Hardin, you play with Chris Paul, you play with LeBron, you play with Kobe. You play with a lot of guys that's on that set.

What's the biggest difference between Kobe and all the guys that I named? Because everybody would know, okay, what's the difference between LeBron and Kobe? So let's go with just LeBron and Kobe. What was the biggest difference between them? I think Kobe is more of a I don't give a fuck if you like it. If you like me, this is how we're doing it. I think Brian kind of is more conscious of like what's going on. You know, he's more of, you know, he's, he's more like, he's cooler with more people than Kobe was.

Kobe don't give a fuck if you like him or not. That's just the truth. He was just that cold-blooded. Kobe comes in like, hey, y'all, we're working today. Y'all that will what if y'all? Yeah, that's, I don't care. So when, and everybody tells the story. like they lose a game and Kobe like, man, take my shoes up.

Y'all, sorry, mofos don't need to have my stuff on. Yeah, no, that's, I didn't, I didn't experience that Kobe. Right. You know, our team wasn't like that team or the teams that he had where he talked to them that way. Right. You had a more veteran ball club because it was you and Powell, Kobe. Andrew Biden was kind of the young guy.

Fish was still there. When I was, I was 22 at the time. So I was a younger player. Right. But my mentality never was one. of a younger player. I always had to, I have to go get it. You got a bet mentality. Yeah. I'm on the same thing y'all on. So my mentality was a mentality was a bit different. So how was it in practice? You got to guard, you know,

obviously you're going against COVID. You know he going to bring it and you know you got to bring it because he's going to try to embarrass you and you're not trying to be embarrassed. No, absolutely not. And I think that's how we start, that's why our relationship was so what it was because I'm not I don't care who you are I'm gonna give a fuck about none of that yeah I'm gonna compete because I'm a competitor right and I want to beat you just like how you want to beat me right and I think he understood that how was it becoming his teammate because you you guys competed each other for a number of years he dropped 40 on you you're rookie my rookie year and you know what's crazy about um Larry Brown had this thing where

Every player that whatever city we go to, he was going to start you if you're in your home city. Okay. And he started me. After probably sitting me like 10 games. Right. Yeah, I wasn't ready for that one. Right. Yeah.

But, you know, he did. Did he let you know about it? Who been? Kobe. No, he never, he, no, he didn't really. On the court, he was, he was fucking destroying me. Yeah, of course. But I'm saying, once you came to the Laker, he's like, Trev, you remember that 40 piece I dropped on you?

He dropped 40 on so many people that he probably didn't remember that. His only thing was, what are you going to do to help us win? Were you on the Lakers when Kobe demanded the trade? No, that's before my time. That was before your time. Yeah. How different do you think Kobe Legacy would have been had he been trading? Because I think the thing that's so fascinating is that he played 20 years with the same team.

Right. I think it would have been a little bit different just because, I mean, I don't know where he demanded a trade too. Seems like he wanted to go to Chicago. Chicago. Yeah, I don't think it would have been the same thing. It would have been different. He would have been in the shadow of Mike, Mike, you know,

and I don't think he's a person who deserves a shadow. Right. You know, he's his own shadow. How demanding was Kobe to win a ring without Shaq? I think he, that's something that he wanted to, it drove him fucking sleepless night. I could probably say that he wanted to prove that, you know, he was who he thought he was. Lamar Odom said that had you played against the Celtics, you ought to beat him.

I would like to agree with him with that. So when you lose, I mean, that was the series and that you guys had that big, they had that big league. I think it was game three. We was up 22. Yeah. Yeah. And then they came back. I remember the thing that I remember,

Ray Allen just getting to the can and just reverse lit. Oh my God. That took all the momentum out of. Stapled. Yeah, at the time. Right. From that point on,

that gave them the utmost confidence and they took the series after that. But how is it, how does a young player gain the respect of the veteran players in the locker room? The work ethic. The things that you do every single day to prepare for your opportunity.

Like, I broke my foot earlier in that season, and Kobe would meet me there at the gym. You know, he wouldn't beat me there. He would meet me there, you know, going through my thing, doing my shit. So, like, seeing that time after time, after time, after time, you know, he understood that my mission was the same as his mission. You know, I'm a winner just like how he,

wants to or how he is and you know when you see things or people that are like-minded you gravitate towards those things and you know we are like-minded people right did he ever say anything vocally verbally about man look bro i got to get that championship man shack doesn't get one went to miami and got him a gun got him a chip and he doesn't got one without me and he up there you know he don't write and distract he talking i mean was he ever verbal about that or you can just tell the way he practiced the way he moved that that was very very important something Sometimes he would come in practice just aggravated, you know, wouldn't say shit to nobody. And you can tell, like, in, like, his demeanor that those things was ticking him off, you know?

Like, he wanted it bad. Right. He wanted it real bad. And I'm not sure if it was a competition between him and Shaq. If it was, I wouldn't have known because he never, like, spoke bad about him by Bigfeller at all. But I know that his drive was always to be the best. you know, that's why he wore number 24 because he wanted to be better.

Yeah, you know, so. Because 8 to 24 really doesn't make any sense. No sense at all. So, yeah. Yeah. So you had Phil Jackson. What was playing for Phil like? Playing for PJ was dope because it wasn't,

we had a system in place. Right. So it wasn't really like he had to come up with, like, crazy schemes inside that system. he just had to be able to manage personalities and I think that's where he was the best at managing personalities getting like huge personalities to come together

because you know Mike was Mike and it's easy for Mike because there's nobody else on that team that no Scotty is not thinking he's as good as Mike Jordan and Ron Harper know about that Scotty Mike Scotty was probably just as that's the and that's the thing that like media I feel like don't like point out You think Scottie thought he was just as good as Mike?

Not defensively. Now defensively, hey, we know what we know what Scottie is. But I'm talking about- A score? Yeah. I don't think he, I don't think he felt like his impact was just as important. Wow. Yeah, why wouldn't it be?

Yeah, I'm not saying that's not. But I think when I look at Shaq and Kobe, there are the point, there are the defining point that Kobe said, I'm just as good at this mofool, bro. Y'all say whatever you want to say, and I understand what he is, but I'm just as good. Nobody is as dominant as Shaq. Yeah.

They changed the rules for Shaq. That's just what's real. But when you look at, I mean, how old were you with Kobe? Kobe got to the league of what? About 96 or 76. He got in 96. I was 11. So you came in 11.

So you saw the maturation. You saw the guy that air ball in Utah. Yeah. And then you see, like, hold on. Are you sure dude 18? Are you sure he's 19? And then at 20, 21, 22, he's got a third championship. His body changed.

He locked in to a completely different level. Yeah, he's after, I guess, to me, he's the best player ever. Wow! Yeah, he is. You got Kobe over Mike? That's just my favorite player. Right. But, I mean, Mike is in a completely different.

He's by himself. Right. But if I have to say, Kobe is the best player ever. When you said you texted him, Kobe's legends. You texted Kobe a photo of him shooting over three people. And Kobe says, means someone should have a TV to putback if I miss. He meant that. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human. potential. Either way, the podcast, Superhuman, documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey,

journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast.

It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHeart Podcast presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school.

Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Sidebar.

Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a bo-go. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here? Just hit it. Oh, what are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album?

Oh, I wish. Could you believe? I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic.

You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He laughed, but he was dead out serious. Right. Because again, like you said, those teams that he was on, he probably felt that, you know, they could get the putbacks.

Right. He felt like his shot was the best shot, even if it was on three or four people. I mean, when you look at, when I look at the NBA now, it's like when Kobe came, the Jordan shoe was the leg. Yeah. Now it seems to be the Kobe shoe. is to what the Jordan shoe used to be to the NBA players today.

Yeah. Am I correcting that? I think on the court for sure. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Kobe's shoe is, you know, does shoe to wear. And I believe it's probably that because I feel like Jordan limit the type of shoes that he let the players wear. Really?

If he let players wear like the retros and all that, then, you know, it might be a little bit even. But, I mean, Kobe's shoes are more comfortable. Yeah, because he don't really let him wear the like the Jordan, he let him wear the Jordan line. He don't let him wear that old stuff, the stuff that he actually wore. Fact. That's, yeah. Well, he tried to sell the Jordan line. He didn't really try to do the director. The retro to Nike thing. They're going to do that. They're going to sell regardless. Right.

I need y'all to get some of these Jason Tatum and this other stuff. Exactly. November is here and we're in the heart of football season. Basketball and hockey are just getting started. So many games to watch on any given day. But wouldn't it be better if they were live? The best way to get tickets to any of these games this month is on Game Time, the fastest growing ticket app in the U.S.

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Last-minute tickets. Lowest price, guaranteed. What was your second stint? Because now you play with Braun, AD, Russ, Mello, Austin Reeves, Dwight. I mean, what was that second stand with the Lakers like? And how different was it from the first step? The first time I was there, I was really young.

I was 22. Right. 23. And I had something to prove, right? Like coming in at my 18th season, you know, I've done all the proving that I can prove. and my role was completely different at that time. So, you know, it's two different situations. The organization has always been great.

Always was great to me. But, you know, the roles or, you know, what I was asked to do was completely different at the two different times. Why didn't it work? What the fucking old? You got all players that are like, you know, vet, super vets.

Right. You know, super, super vets. And you're asking players to do things at a right age that they didn't do in their younger age. You're not, you can't ask Mello to go dive on the floor for a loose ball or, you know, chase Anthony Edwards around for 40 minutes. Right. You know, he just not, you're not going to get that out of him. Right. You know what I mean?

So you're not going to ask Dwight to come off the bench and only play 15 minutes when in his mind he feels like he can contribute more. That's just a tough thing to do. You're not getting brown off the court. That's never going to happen. So when you have things like that and all those elements in that form, it's hard to win. Hard to win. Russ, Russ's dream was to come back and play for the purple and gold. OKC, Houston, Washington.

That was great. The triple double, the first guy to average a triple double since Oscar. He won an MVP and O KC. They had a decent season in Houston, you know, ended up going to the bubble. You know, it happened. He goes to Washington, average. Two more triple doubles. He a killer.

He comes to L.A. So much fanfare. You got Braun, you got A.D. And Russ. Why didn't it work with those guys and the criticism? Was it unfair the amount of criticism that Russ received? Absolutely. Russ, every single night, he put his heart.

head on, he does everything that you ask of him. Every single time. They were asking him to go play in the Dunker spot. He was doing that shit. But that's not, that's not. That's not his game. Right. So like I said, when you put anybody in a situation where you have Bron on the team, he's not coming off the ride. Right. So Russ is the point guard. Right. He plays. He needs the ball. So why did it, so why make that move?

When you know Brian needs the ball, Russ knows that he needs the ball. There's only one. This ain't pool where there are a bunch of balls on the table. Basketball, you got work. See, I'm glad I don't have that issue, and I don't got to worry about that. I don't constructing the team or putting the scene together. Right. I never had that problem.

If you were general manager, would you like, would you have put this team together? It depends on why. If it's to sell tickets, yeah. Yeah. No, you got to win that. You had to win a championship. You had to win a championship. You know what's... You play for the Purple League.

You know what it's about. And you know how those fans are. Right. And the fans don't care. The one thing, being in L.A., what I've noticed, the fans don't give a damn what you did in another organization. What you're going to do for us? Yeah.

You won MVP over there? Fine. You won championships over there, fine. Now, what you're going to do for the Purple League? What did Russ average when he was there? I think, what? 18, 7 and 7? What's wrong?

with that? That's all-star numbers anywhere else. Right. That's not, people are, people are getting the max off that. Right. So, no, you can hit the criticism. But that's not what they expect. You know what expectations are. Yeah. You can't expect Bron the average 27, 7 and 7 and Russ average, triple double. Triple double. The AD average 26, 12. That's, then Mello average 18, 7 and whatever. That's unrealistic. That's like playing in the video game. Right. So somebody should have been willing to like alter.

And he was and he did. And he got all the criticism for it, you know. His game hasn't changed throughout his career. Little Wayne recently said and that in order to be the Lakers need to trade, Anthony Davis said to win a championship. And I guess AD must have heard him. Got the braids out, got the pro going. And he'd be lighting folk up.

Yeah. I mean, sometimes it takes for somebody like that or people that you admire to, like, get in your shit for you to understand that, you know, you got to be as hungry as you need to be for it to work. AD is a special, special, special player. And sometimes he don't always show that he's special. But this year, he's been doing what he's supposed to do so far.

I agree with you because sometimes I don't think AD realized just how special he is because I remember what he did to Yokic in the bubble. I remember what he, I've seen him go get 50 points against Joel and B. I'm getting 40 points to get Yonnis. Yeah. And then the next night he'd come give me 11. And see, AD got upset when Laker fans and a lot of analysts criticize him. They say, AD, how do you give somebody one rebound in the first half and no points in the second half

and think you're supposed to escape criticism. Under what planet, under what scenario, our player, AD was top 70. Damn. Now that I think about it, AD was top 75. Right. Yeah. And you give us one rebound in the first half

and zero points in the second half and you're supposed to say, oh, man, that's all right, man. It's not good enough. No. It's unacceptable, period. There's no questions about that. It's unacceptable.

On no planet, should AD ever have one rebound and there are no points. It's just unacceptable. LeBron James is the oldest current, oldest player in the NBA. I mean, what, I mean, Trey up.

You play, I mean. 1B. Kobe 1A. 1B. How? How is he able to play at this level for such a long? We've seen guys have peaks.

Yeah. But they peak and this, dude, The dude got here and stayed there. I mean, he's like a plane. He got to a comfortable cruising altitude and stayed there. He's like, I mean, I used to have this joke with my friends that he was like, he was created in the lab. He's not even, he's not a real person.

So that's how. I mean, when you're like, obviously you guarded him a number of years. What was your mindset? What are you trying to do? How uncomfortable are you trying to? What are you trying to take away? Just him getting in the paint, him getting downhill, because if he's in the paint, he's disrupting everything.

Because he can finish at the real, he can kick. He could pass. He's strong as a motherfucker. So he has all the tools. You know, the only thing that you can possibly say is that his jumper is streaky. Right. And you want to keep him out of the paint. Right.

When you played against him in high school. Yeah. In your wildest imagination, even though they had him on Sports Illustrated and chosen one, did you think he'd be this good? I thought he would be this good. I just didn't know how fast that was going to happen. You just see it.

Like, some players are just completely different. Like, he's built like you, and he runs. And he'd get up and down the court like TJ Ford did. You know, T.J. Ford is a small, quick guard. Right. So like, you just see it. What's the, what's the, forget on the court because I think in order for the game is what you do off the court. Yeah.

So from a practice standpoint, from a training standpoint, what are some of the similarities or some of the difference that you noticed that Kobe did and Braun did? It's the work for sure. Like the amount of work that they put in is the same. Brown will be doing work that you don't even know, like at home or like offsite. And then he'll still be at the gym before everybody on the court. Then he'll be in the training room getting his body right. Then he'll be getting jumpers up after the game. Then he'll, I mean, after practice, then he'll be back in the training room or in the right room stretching.

So, you know, the amount of work that he puts in to the game is, you know, pretty much similar. The person is just different. They're different? Yeah. What's the biggest differences? Bron is more, like, more personable. Yeah. He's definitely more of a people person.

Cody, give you a middle finger. Yeah, he's like, he's. What age do you think LeBron's going to retire? Because here he's, he's six weeks away from being 39 years of age. And he's still playing at an unbelievable level. We saw him the other night, go get 38, 12 and what, six, seven against Phoenix. And we've seen him have these monster games and he can still go off at any moment.

At what age do you think that it starts to noticefully dissipate? I don't think he's still, I don't think he's as athletic. I think he could do some of the things just not for as long a time, a period as he can do it. But what age do you think, like 41, 42?

I think he could do it for as long as he want to do it. And the way he takes care of his body and the mentality that he has, he probably could play till he's probably, Probably 45 if you want to. Yeah. Real. Well, if he played the 45, the record

ain't going to never be broken. It won't. I don't think the things that he's done is nobody's going to catch that. I don't think nobody's going to catch the points that he's going to score. Wow. How long did it take for him to break? How long did Kareem record last?

Kareem had the record for almost 40 years. Kareem broke the record in Vegas. Because back then, you know, they played, I mean, they was trying to grow the league. And so he broke it against Utah. if I'm not mistaken, at Thomas and Mack in 84. LeBron broke it in, what, March or April of 23? So almost 40 years.

And then it's still going. Yeah. He's still playing. And he's still scoring a gang of points. And nobody going to catch that. You play. And the funny thing is not only did you guys were, you know, played against each other in NBA, but you played against each other in high school.

Yeah. And your uncle said that Brown was overrated. And I guess somebody told it. I don't know about that. He just gave you 52 for no reason. I don't know about that. I mean, he's a fucking good player. Tremp, you can't let him get a 50-piece on you?

I mean, I didn't let him. Shit, you tell him I'm going to let anybody do that. That's what he did. You know, he was that special. So, you know, you can't take none away from what he did. So before, you, I mean, obviously, is that there's, I mean, this stuff. to be social media, but it's not like it is now. You heard about it.

Right. And what are you thinking? It can't be that good the way y'all talking about. Oh, boy, he should be in the NBA right now at 15, 16. He can't be that good. And then you see him. And you see him as a 15, 16-year-old. He's like, hold on.

Man, let me see his birth certificate. Because there ain't no way somebody built like that at 15, 16. No, you just, again, when you plan against elite talent, you see elite things. And he just was the most special out of special players. He was like the best X-Men. For real. So, yeah. Kevin Durant, he said at some point, y'all non-athletes going to realize that friends compete harder against one another.

Right. And LeBron agreed. Do you agree? A hundred percent. Because, like, it's just like having a brother. You're going to try to beat your brother and everything. Because I don't never want you to have regular rights. You're never going to say that you did this to me.

So yeah, you're going to compete harder against your friends than you're going to compete. But why do the older guys seem to forget that every time Magic at Azeleu to play each other, they would give each other a kiss on the cheek? But Magic took his ass out to air. Jordan and Barkler were very cool. But they make it seem like they was fighting, you know, everything with bad boy pistons in the Celtics or bad boy pistons in the pool. They try to make, they seem to forget that, you know, we had TVs. We saw it.

Yeah. I think it's just then they, I feel like now they help each other up more. They are bigging each other up more, which is not really a bad thing. But like in terms of competing, you kind of don't want to let, you know, your right hand know what the left hand is doing. How has AAU shaped that? Because you played against LeBron. You know him. These guys now, they've been playing against each other since they're 10.

So how do I develop a rival? How do I develop a dislike or a hatred versus the envy? Those old guys, they didn't see each other. You went on hell, you went traveling around like this. You saw each other at the McDonald's All-American game. That was probably the only time that you really saw each other. And so you went to one college. I mean, if you went to Duke, North Carolina, obviously you developed or I don't know who you're right.

What? USC. Yeah. Kate, we get fat. But these kids now, a lot of them play on the same high school team or the same AAU team. So how do I develop, how does Zion and John Moran, who played on the same AAU team, develop a rival against each other? Try to kick each other's eyes. Every time they step on the court, that's it.

It don't, I mean, it don't stop. Like, you don't have to not be cool with them. Right. You know, but when you're in between those lines, you know, it's, I'm going to fucking eat all your food. So what are your thoughts on super teams? What's the super team? I mean, there's always been super teams. Yeah.

But, I mean, the old guys seemed to forget that. What were the Celtics, the Big Three Celtics, with Bird, Parrish, and McHale? They also had Dennis Johnson, who's in the Hall of Fame. Right. The Lakers. So what was Corrine, Magic, and Worthy? Killers.

Well, that's not a super team. But see, it seems to me... Not worked through a draft, though. But that's the thing. Well, everybody ain't Jerry West. Mm-hmm. everybody in Bob Myers everybody wasn't coach

Alback to be able to put a team together yeah I hear that I think like the difference now is players want to play with each other yes more so than playing against each other right and that's probably the thing that irks older players

like if you're not on the same team early I want to compete against you because you're my rival and that's I like the competition You know, it's just like playing cards or dominoes, right? Like, I'm going to try to kick your ass on the domino table. You're still my dog, you're still my boy?

Well, I'm still going to go at you. And I think that's the difference in today's game than the errors before. What do you think about for me? And I call some criticism, but I'm not afraid to say it. I believe, even in football, the players are more skilled. They're more athletic. And today it's called evolution. Players get bigger, faster, stronger,

jump higher, they shoot better. Yeah, they do. From deeper, from, you know, they shoot from half court now. You see Dan come across half. If you're not at half court with him, you let it go. Yeah. Guys wasn't doing that. The game was completely different.

So I think that's, older players have to let that go. But see, I think the older player playing football, where they're not as tough. I mean, being tough. The rules are different. Yes. Yeah, like being tough is, I guess in your era of football, getting the concussion, getting your ass back out there on the next snap,

putting the band-aid over the helmet. Right. Yeah. That was the physicality of it. Right. But that, I mean, I guess, I mean, would you consider being tough a skill? Now it is. It's a mentality that you've got to have.

And it's a little bit, you've got to look at it different now. Right. They're tough as different from what our tough is. Right. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel,

help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days I'd put on 10 pounds, I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media. Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok's podcast network on TikTok.