The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Tua Tagovailoa, NBA, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, NFL draft

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

Colin explains why health concerns shouldn't stop teams from drafting Tua Tagovailoa, why LeBron James is eager for the NBA to come back this season, the effect the Michael Jordan documentary will have on the sports world, and where the top NFL prospects should be drafted. Guests include Doug Gottleib, Mike Krzyzewski, Jay Glazer, and Greg Cosell. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what's up guys this is clivert taylor the fourth and on my podcast the clivert show i'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff like being an internet famous referee we're in the middle of a game this linebacker this linebacker walks up to me he goes a ref my mom wants you to wave at her what Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Rhett, my mama want you to weigh better. What?

Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the herd at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the iHeart Radio app by searching Herd. Fox Sports Radio. Oh, here we go on a wet, soggy day in Los Angeles.

This is the herd. Wherever you may be and however you may be listening, IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio and FS1, Joy Taylor, never looked better. Joining me on the show this morning, so nice to have Joy in living color now on television. And yeah, I still need a haircut. Let's not get into it. Joy looks fantastic. And we are ready to roll one hour from now.

Coach K. Mike Shashefsky. I'm excited to talk to him about a lot of things. Number one, he's coached three Olympic teams. He also, early in his career, coached against Michael Jordan. And Duke wasn't very good back then. They hadn't popped, right? So we got some Michael Jordan to talk about with him, some LeBron to talk about with him.

He is really the one college coach that's been able to bridge the NBA college spectrum. And he's done very well with both, respected by both players. coaches at both levels. So Joy, how are you this morning? And a really, really wet day. We're supposed to get great weather in L.A. for the next 10 days after this. But I'll tell you this, the drought's over in California.

Officially. I'm doing good, but it's actually a good thing that we have, you know, some rain. We're supposed to be inside anyway. So no incentive to go anywhere. This is a very big week in California to stay home. So I'm happy for the rain. Okay, here's the story I want to lead my show with today. Tua.

Had him on the show a couple days ago. Alabama quarterback rolled tied. I like him. He's my number one quarterback, although I do think there's an injury concern, but I would draft him still. I've said that. So Mike Lombardi's a buddy of mine.

Mike works at the ringer. He used to be at Fox Sports. He used to work for the Patriots. He used to run the Browns. He has two teams telling him something bad about Tua. Two teams I've talked to have flunked him. They flunked him on not just the hip,

on the multitude of injuries, like the risk far outweighs. the reward. All right, let me address that. I tell my kids this all the time. What teams? Who's levying the criticism against you? If Bob Costas writ me or Joe Buck, it would hurt. If a blogger does it, I couldn't care. Who are the two teams? A third of this league is poorly run. Who are the teams? What if it was New England that told him, hoping to poison the waters, and he drops in the draft down to New England? Or at least in an area where New England could draft him in the 15, 16, 17, What if it's the Jags?

They've got nine. You know, if the Chargers, if the Chargers are on the fence and we tell everybody we flunked and it gets out there, maybe they pay. And we get him at nine. A lot of people want Tua, but they're in the 20s and they can't get him. But if he drops to 12 and 13, New England gives you four picks, goes up and gets him. I don't know who it is. I trust Mike.

I like Mike. I am not in any way indicting Mike. I'm saying, I don't know who the teams are. 30% of the teams in this league don't know what they're doing. Their coaches don't know what they're doing. Their GMs are not very good. They whiff on scouting assignments. How do I know their team doctors are any good?

I would guess the Patriots team doctors and the Ravens team doctors are probably better than the bottom third of the league in Detroit through the year. Cincinnati, wouldn't you? Aren't there more great hospitals and medical professionals in New York, California, Massachusetts? Cleveland's got the Cleveland Clinic. I bet you the Browns have great medical people. It's a hotbed for great medical personnel in the country. So, I mean, who's saying this? That's the first point.

I have no idea. Secondly, to him, is four games in two years in the SEC. Easily the most physical football conference in college football. Let's be honest, Big 12, Pac-12, those are pillow fights. ACC, outside of Clemson, pillow fights. He missed four games. in two years. And oh, by the way, is that injury prone? Because two teams are saying injury prone. Is that injury prone? Because I know he plays well when he's hurt. I saw him throw for 418 yards and

four touchdowns against LSU, the best college football team perhaps of all time when he was hurt. We know NFL guys play when they're hurt. Let me ask you. He's had one major injury and one injury-riddled season from high school to college. One. And in that injury-riddled season, he missed four games out of 13. Is that injury-prone? Aaron Rogers, two collarbone surgeries. Is Aaron Rogers injury-prone? I don't think he is.

Big Ben, last decade, he has started a full season three times in 10 years. Is Big Ben injury prone? Didn't they just sign him to an extension? And he's old, two is not. What about Deshawn Watson? Do you know why DeAndre Hopkins is no longer in Houston? Because they're clearing cap space because they're going to pay Deshaun Watson $250 million.

He tore his knee up in college. He's torn it up in the NFL. He couldn't play last year, couldn't take a plane for a game because his kidney was all messed up. Is he injury prone? Doesn't seem to deter the Houston Texans. They're going to pay him $250 million. By the way, Carson Wentz. has missed eight games in four years.

He's missed entire playoff runs. They signed him to a long-term deal. My point is everybody's hurt in this league playing quarterback outside of Russell Wilson and Tom Brady. Let me ask you this. Patrick Mahomes, he's the greatest player in the league, right? Okay, stay with me. If you think two is injury prone, stay with me on this.

In college, Patrick Mahomes had wrist surgery. Bet you didn't know that. He got knocked out of a game. Concussion. Two and never did. Oh, he played eight games one year because of an AC joint issue. In 2016, two never had that. In college, I can make the argument.

Knocked out of a game, K-O, wrist surgery, AC joint issue. He was more injury prone than two in college. Oh, by the way, Patrick goes to the NFL. He had an ankle injury last year. And then he missed a bunch of games because he had a dislocated kneecap. He missed at least a couple. So I got five injuries with Patrick Mahomes, and he's going to make $350 million. Aaron Rogers, Big Ben, Deshawn Watson, Carson Wentz, Patrick Mahomes, are they injury prone?

Other teams don't think so. DeShon's going to get paid. Patrick's going to get paid. Carson Wentz did get paid. Big Ben got paid again, and Aaron just got paid a year ago. And they've all got injuries. Number three. Thanks to a new collective bargaining agreement.

So what if you draft them in the only last four years? Arizona drafted a quarterback. They bailed on it. Twelve months later, they drafted another quarterback, and we're all sitting here today going, I kind of like the direction they're going. Let's say you draft Tua. He lasts four years in Miami.

That's where you draft him. Miami. Four years as Brian Flores builds that defense up in the old lineup. Four years. And he averages 13 games. a year. He misses three games, but he's good enough, I think he is, to win nine of the 13 games. He's not worth it? You don't give him a second contract. He's not worth that rookie contract in the rebuild? The merchandise he sells, the games he wins, the energy he provides, the value to the

organization. This is not 15 years ago when you give Jamarcus Russell a contract, and if he whiffs, You're done. So I got A, who says they flunked him? I was in the Chargers War Room two years ago. They took a player off their board because of injuries. He got drafted by a team that had recently won a Super Bowl. Translation, what's your board say? Even Chargers are well run.

You know, the team that had it well run. Disagreement. Opinions, disagreements. A lot of people didn't think Lamar is going to work. Lamar works. Disagreements. The second part is, what the hell is injury prone mean? Is Patrick Mahom's injury prone? Is Aaron Rogers?

Is Big Ben? Is Carson Wentz? Is John Wine? And the third thing is, even if he is, I'd still do it. The kid is Drew Brees accurate, unbelievable leader, the best most accurate thrower of the football, intangible, sees the field. And it's not punitive if he's hurt after four years. It's not.

Listen, you'll watch him in camp. If by the end of year two, you're like, I don't know how long he's going to last, but we love him. Draft another quarterback. And he doesn't even have to play this year, Ryan Fitzpatrick. So sit around, make sure he's healthy, watch it, watch, watch. And if you know in that year, I don't know. They have 13 draft picks. 13.

Solve the rest of the issues for the team. Continue the culture. They're going to win games. They won five of their last nine. But I don't buy this with Tua. I don't know who said it. I see injured quarterback's winning. Super Bowl's all over this league, and it's not punitive if you draft him and he does get hurt.

I just think he's too good to say no to. Coming up next. Oh, we got so many good things today. Coming up next. Doug Gottlieb this hour, Coach K. Next hour, and Greg Cosell next hour, and Jay Glazer, too. We're packed today on a Thursday. Coming up, there have been discussions.

You know, LeBron, I don't know if he wants back. I mean, he's guaranteed. money from Rich Paul as agent. I'm going to tell you why LeBron wants to play more than any player in this league, and it doesn't even have anything to do with the player in this league. That's coming up. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. are flying and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves.

Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slicelife Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Kier Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations. with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase

that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game.

This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker.

Listen to the Clifford show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The story I've told myself about. how love or relationships can then shape my behavior, and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery, and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being,

and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social and connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Good to have you in. And, you know, one of the reasons I'm trying to be optimistic on all this stuff is airlines have very thin profit margins. Hospitals have very thin profit margins. Grocery stores have thin profit margins, although they are doing robust business right now. Hospitals. So the industry's tourism, by the way, will not be the same for years. There's a lot of industries that are not going to rebound quickly at all.

Tourism is going to change for the next year minimum. So if we know there's industries that are going to suffer irreparable damage, we have to kickstart in three weeks beginning of May the businesses that have a fighting chance. So I do believe social distancing is the key. I'm thankful my state has been arduous, restrictive, and really smart. But we're going to lose a lot of businesses. And there's going to be a lot of jobs lost. And there's a lot of businesses out there that are thin margins.

Airlines, restaurants, generally not well capitalized. Hospitals. This has been really rough on hospital staffs. So I do support May getting back to business. I want to shift to this, Mike Shoshchevsky top of next hour, Doug Gottlieb, less than 10 minutes. That I've heard Rick Buecker, for one, has said he's not sure LeBron wants to come back. This is not a good setup for him, older body.

He's got no chance to get through the clippers. I disagree. I think he really wants to get through it. LeBron's playing a different game than everybody else. Everybody else is competing against themselves. LeBron's competing against Michael Jordan. LeBron's standards are much higher than everybody else in the league. Nobody else in this league is in the... Could he be the best player of all time?

Nobody else is close. I mean, Anthony Davis, how many playoff series does he have in seven years that he's won? One, and he's the second best player maybe in the NBA. Third, maybe behind Kauai. Janice has two playoff series wins. It's LeBron here, Kauai next, and then it's just the Grand Canyon between even the next best players. Well, LeBron's going to be sitting home here in his 17th year. And guess what's starting in about a week?

Michael Jordan, 10-part documentary. 20-year-olds never saw. Michael play live. Either did 30-year-olds. I did. I did. And that's why I say Michael's the best player ever. But a lot of 20-year-olds have lived in the tunnel of LeBron only, and they're LeBron fans.

And don't kid yourself. Players like Michael, the late Kobe Bryant and LeBron, are absurdly competitive. Michael was petty during his Hall of Fame speech. Kobe wouldn't leave the gym if he lost a game of horse. He would play you until he beat you. And we know LeBron watches social media. He reacts very quickly. He likes his attention.

And I like LeBron. LeBron's going to be sitting at home. 17th year. Best player he's ever had on a team in his peak, AD. Roster is old. It's not getting better. It's a weak draft, crappy free agency class, and the cap's coming down. They can't afford anybody else.

And don't have anybody on that roster, not name LeBron or AD that anybody else wants. I like Coosma. He's not special. This is the year. this is the year. But it's also in terms of branding. The 20-year-olds are going to watch this 10-part series, and those are LeBron guys.

And guess what? Every talk show host, Joy, me, the Stephen A's, the Skips, the Shannons, the Whitlocks, the Nick Wrights, the Gottliebs are all going to be like, man, I forgot he's the greatest ever. And LeBron will be sitting home and watching that as a hyper-competitive. athlete. Don't kid yourself. LeBron wants to come back badly. It's one thing to have the MJ documentary on and you're playing and dropping 32 a night. It's another to be watching it. And then you turn on the sports networks, which you watch all the time. We all know that.

And they're all like, you know, that debate was stupid. MJ is clearly so much better. Even Nick Wright talked about this the other day on our show. We didn't get to see LeBron in the playoffs last. year. If they don't have a playoff this year, we won't get to see it. And then you're into year 18. And while I've never been in the business of doubting LeBron, then you are one tweaks growing away from what? LeBron not being in the playoffs again. And then wait, wait, was the last great LeBron playoff moment, the 51 point game one. And then we never see him in the postseason again. Like, if you miss this postseason, that door starts to open. And I think the NBA is so tied still

to LeBron, it's very important this year gets in in some way, shape, or form. By the way, LeBron said this four years ago, quote, My motivation, my motivation is the ghost I'm chasing. LeBron told Sports Illustrated Lee Jenkins, the ghost played in Chicago. Well, guess what? The ghost is coming back for 10 parts. As LeBron sits and watches, the shows talk about him and the world talk about him.

These guys are all so competitive. It's why they're great. It's why Kobe was great. It's why M.J. was great. It's why Jeter was great. They are, I mean, they're petty. Tom Brady texting his dad, we got his phone records. Yeah, he's only got how many years.

I got a bunch of years. I've got to be Peyton Maddie. He'll be the greatest of all the time. That's who they are. It's great. Don't think LeBron wants to sit and watch on TV, the shows, and in the MJ series, in probably the last great year to win a championship for him. Because 80's not getting younger and healthier.

This Laker roster's older, not a lot of tradable parts. The cap's coming down to crappy draft and a bad free agent class. This is what he's got to win with. This is it. Joy with the News. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right, Colin, we got a little drama. What? So Tom Brady and Bill Belichick built a dynasty together in New England, as we know. Yeah. And now we get to see what they can do apart. And Rex Ryan, who faced the duo many times as a head coach, thinks that Brady was the reason for all the Patriot's success, not Belichick. Now, he did say that Belichick was the greatest coach, but he said, let's give him

somebody else, let's give him Gino Smith, let's give him whoever, and let's see how many Super Bowls he would have won. He saw the answer was zero in Cleveland's. So let me ask you this. Several shots fired there. If Phil Jackson didn't have Michael Jordan or say Shaq, would he have won the titles? Does that mean he's not? Does Rex Ryan understand that Bill Walsh had Joe Montana or he doesn't win half his titles?

I think the NBA comparison is tough because we know how much one talents can swing, you know, the history of a franchise and the NBA. With the NFL, there's never been a great quarterback without a great coach. Not consistently. You've had swings here and there, but certainly not a dynasty. or any kind of run. Like you have to have a great coach and a great quarterback because there's so many positions on the field.

There's two sides of the ball. Like the quarterback doesn't play defense. So there's so much that goes into it. I think, look, no disrespect to Gino Smith, but there's a gap between Tom Brady and Gino Smith. Could you argue that Bill Belichick could have done it with Derek Carr? Maybe. I mean, there's a lot that Bill Belichick does.

That's why we give him the credit. But Gino Smith responded, though. He said, my mom never liked dude. He's been a snake and y'all glorify it. Should have got fired after year one. Truth is, we won eight games after ESPN had us winning two and he got his job back. Somehow I'm caught up in a feud and I'm the scapegoat. Same guy that drafted me, hashtag the business.

I mean, it is, it's unfortunate for Gino Smith because he got dragged into this, obviously. He had nothing to do with it. But I think that's just kind of too far of a stretch to compare. I think no Belichick could have won with other people. Would he have the dynasty that he had with Tom Brady? Absolutely not. Rex Ryan was not a good head coach. This is no shot at him.

I don't know him well enough. I've had dinner with him once. Is he a good analyst? He had to apologize last week. Rex says a lot. It's very blustery. I think there's a plumber quality to him. He's like a regular guy.

And I think people like regular guy. But like, I don't think Rex Ryan should ever. Like, I don't talk about guys like Buck or Costas or Michaels because they've reached a point where they're beyond my criticism. I don't think Rex can talk about 30 coaches in the league. I wish you wouldn't talk about the Belichick thing. It's a bad look because Belichick owned him. It's just a bad look. Well, yeah, that's why he's talking about it.

So Todd Gurley is no longer a member of the Rams, but the team still owes him some money. At least he feels like it. And he said they're behind on delivering his paycheck. He tweeted at the Rams, past due, send me money ASAP. Then another former Ram, Clay Matthews, retweeted Gurley and added, You and Me both, TG, better get some interests with that too. The Rams believe they're in full compliance with the language in the player's contracts. According to a source that told ESPN, the team is declined to comment.

There is some kind of wording in the contract that I believe, like they believe, obviously, they have a loophole to not pay these these two. But to me, it's more of a reflection of just what a tumble the Rams have taken over the past few years. I really liked the way that the Rams put together their roster, even if it wasn't building for a long-term future. They kind of just went all in. We're going to get as much talent and pay everybody and try and win a Super Bowl. And had they won a Super Bowl, I do think that a lot more teams would have adapted that strategy. But obviously they knew there was going to come a time where you have to pay all these guys and we're not going to be able to keep everyone.

I think they're going to look very different this year. I'm very interested to see if we have training camp what they look like on hard knocks. I still think Sean McVey is a good coach and I still like Jared Gough. I just think they're just going to look like a completely different team now. By the way, why would Gurley call him out? You know, the Rams always said this relationship was harmonious and great. Can we stop with that? Now he's calling him out in social media.

Can we stop pretending the last year of girly Rams was great? I was told it was icy. He changed. They changed their view of him. Like, you don't go to social. I mean, there are people I don't like in my industry. I don't go to social media and call them out. Like, once you do that, like, A, B, doing that is rare.

Most guys don't do it. Overwhelmingly players just keep it to themselves. I think this shows also the Gurley Ram thing last year, it was awful. And my sources said, it was. was bad in the room. Everybody was walking on eggshells. Now he's taking shots at him because, by the way, it's not like he's done very well in his career.

Todd's made a lot of money, especially last year for not playing. So this feels like a shot at a team you still have issues with. Yeah, I wasn't sure if I bought into that they were having issues, but you're right. When you call someone out publicly on social media with no explanation or, you know, information for people to evaluate, there's a problem. Finally, the Buccaneers are already seeing the effects of Tom Brady being a part of the team brand.

They released new uniforms on Tuesday, and Brady's jersey is expectedly flying off the shelves. According to Fanatics, the Bucks are the top-selling team, and Brady is the top-selling athlete. Wow. Sales of Brady merchandise have already spiked 3,000% day over day. Wow. And more Bucks merchandise was sold on Tuesday than the previous 17 days combined, making it the top-selling new uniform debut. in NFL history. Wow.

This is not surprising to me because we talk about this a lot when we get the numbers for the merchandise sales and we're always surprised at how much Tom Brady merchandise is still sold. At least I am because I'm like how many, you know, Tom Brady wristbands do you need? How many New Jersey's do you need for Tom Brady? You don't have the same one from last year. He's been playing for 20 years, but he's always at the top of merchandise sales. He led all NFL players in 2019 jersey sales through last October and then Patrick

McHombs jumps Brady for the top spot by the end of November of 2019. But this here is not surprising because if you've already been buying your annual Tom Brady jersey, of course you're going to get a Bucs jersey, even if you are a Patriots fan. And this is one of those jerseys that, you know, once he retires, it's going to be one of those throwback jerseys. It's like fun to wear. Yeah. Because, you know, it's going to be, it's going to be a collector's item.

It's Tom Brady in Tampa Bay. Yeah, he really does have an amazing brand. He really does. his last five years with the Patriots, those things, everybody in, everybody in the country had a Tom Brady Patriot jersey, and they don't even have great uniforms. They're like boring. He's got, he and LeBron,

Brady's getting to the point now outside of MJ. He may have the strongest brand in sports that I remember. Like, Fav was big, but his brand wasn't this big. Tom Brady, in terms of merchandise sales, TB12 brand, he's not Jordan because Jordan can sell shoes, but it's a real thing, man. Yeah, I would give LeBron the slight edge just because basketball is more of an international game. You know, football is more American, but it's very close.

I mean, this to me is no surprise at all. Yeah, joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurdline News. Sponsored by Mercedes Ben's the best or nothing, my friend now, Doug Gottlieb, the Dugger Fox Sports Radio after our show, FS1 College Basketball, also podcast All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on iTunes. check it out. They've been great lately. Let me start with the Tua thing. Instead of arguing back and forth,

you're the GM, he's available. So let's say Burroughs off the board, Justin Herbert's off the board. You need a quarterback at least in the next two years. Would you draft Tua? Are you saying on the chargers? Yes. Because that's really the picture you're painting right. Yeah. I mean, you know, listen, they all have. these injuries you're talking about

it's not localized in one area I call it you're talking about ankle hip wrist and then there's the other part to it which I think you and I have discussed in NFL people talk about which is it's not just that he's like Mr. Glass

from unbreakable in that he always gets hurt it's that he plays in a style people want him to be Russell Wilson nobody caught and hit Russell Wilson in college. So if people are catching you in college, what the hell you think you're going to do when you get to the NFL, right?

There's, I just, if I do so, I do so, you know, you're going in with both eyes open, right? It's like James Winston. You shouldn't be surprised that he does some dumbass stuff off the football field. You did dumbass stuff off the football field and made dumbass decisions on and off the football field of Florida State? Of course, he's going to do it. So if you're Tom Telesco, you go in with both eyes open.

But if he, this is not everyone in the league knows about these injuries. I don't think this is anyone doing any untold harm to Tata. This is just the way it works. And he's been hurt a lot, but more importantly, he's been caught a lot at the college game. And it wouldn't stun me at all if people pass. I don't know what Tolesco does. I do know that you have a coach who believes. in their quarterback because he was calling plays in Buffalo,

and Tyrod Taylor took a much lesser squad to the playoffs back in Buffalo. He only cost him $7.5 million, and they could go draft a tackle or go draft defense and just mowing up and pass pause on the quarterback position and have Easton Stick, and then Tua sits there in virtual green room for a while. But again, it kind of – it's a terrible expression, but it truly is what it is. If you're buying a car that has been in the shop half of the time,

don't be surprised if it's in the shop half the time when it gets to the NFL. Well, but let's be honest. Carson Wentz has missed playoff runs, has missed eight starts in four years, and they said, we're going to give him money. Deshawn Watson, Tori and college and the pros. Houston's clearing cap space to give him money. And by the way, two only missed four games.

of 13 in his worst year. Patrick Mahomes had a wrist surgery in college, an ACL joint issue in college, a kneecap issue in the NFL, and a bad ankle in the NFL, and he's going to get paid 350. Could I not argue? You get hurt playing NFL football,

and also these days, Doug, if you draft him, and he lasts four years, he does give you juice to your franchise, and it's not punitive financially, if you take him fifth or sixth, that he does make you, better short term, even if he only played 13 games a year?

No, no. Well, I disagree with the only 13 games a year, right? Because part of your ability is availability. I mean, 13, I mean, remember, you're, you're replacing, think about who you're replacing now. You're placing Philip Rivers, who played through a torn ACL, literally never missed, 16 years, never missed a start. So it's different, as you have stated correctly, every different quarterback position, right? Your judgment is graded differently. Your work ethic is graded differently. Remember also he has other knocks against him.

He's coming out of Alabama where it hasn't produced a stud quarterback in the NFL. He's left-handed. He's not particularly big. You know, he's roughly six feet tall. And though he's deadly accurate, you know, it's not like he's got a Josh Allen cannon for an arm. So there are knocks against it. You know, I don't know if he provides the juice for the team. You know, like Tom Brady would,

obviously, as Joy pointed out, would energize you because he's basically football of loyalty. Tua is, you know, like one of those great kids and everyone seems to like him, and maybe he lightens up the room, but nothing energized the room like winning and being available to play. So look, the plus side is if you're the Chargers, for example, they're very comfortable with where they are, the quarterback position, if you want to sit and rest. to let him come up to speed and make sure his body is set.

That's what I would do. I would draft him and sit him. Listen, they're going to win games with Tyrod Taylor. I said this the other day. If you look at Tyrod Taylor with Buffalo and Cleveland, which were rebuilding teams, he's got a winning record in a quarterback passer rating higher than Cam since his MVP Super Bowl year. Like Tyrod Taylor's going to win 10 games. I mean, really, and he's fine.

He's not a guy I'd build around, but they're going to win with Tyrod Taylor this year. here. Yes, and so the question becomes if they're going to win with Tyrod Taylor, do they say, we got Eastern Stick, we don't know if he has an arm, an NFL arm, but let's, I mean, that's a loaded roster, man. I mean, that is, I mean, it is an unbelievable roster that they have. And, I mean, you're going to, I think they're going to redo Joey Bose's deal. Hunter Henry's franchise tag, they can redo his deal. I don't think people seem to remember, maybe because of the Chargers, how dynamic Derwin James was in his rookie year and that was hurt most of last year.

That is a loaded roster that they can win with. To answer your question, I don't know. But what I do know is, and having done, what is it 15 NBA drafts, I can tell you that this is why guys sit is there's information that everybody in the league has and that people just sit there and go like, I can't do it. I can't draft a guy who's in a ball cap because he's constantly hurt. you know and you know it's it's the reason that some foreign cars though they look great you know it's like the jaguar everybody loves the jaguar

but it's in the shop as much time it's on the road right you can't have that at quarterback you look around a quarterback in the NFL and yeah drew breeze's arm almost fell off his last game with the chargers and he missed some games this year but by and large he doesn't miss time tom brady tours acl missed one year but dude the 17 other years he's available every sunday at the quarterback position, you have to be available every Sunday to your football. Okay, don't go anywhere. I want to bring Doug Gottlie back because I believe Doug and I may be competitive guys, but when you get to the Kobe's and the MJs and the LeBron's,

they are absurdly, obsessively compulsive. And I'm going to ask Doug coming up, LeBron on his couch next month watching the MJ documentary. I think he wants to play. I think it's going to wear on him a little bit. I'm going to bring Doug back, talk about that. Don't go anywhere. Live in L.A., it's the hurt.

Be sure to catch live a day. of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments,

that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist. games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking

Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely.

And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano.

You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. And recently, I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff, rant, recommend some of the most legally dubious advice

known to man. If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream a chicken suit. Hey, cream, cream a chicken suit.

This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to help from a hypocrite. as part of the Mike Coultera podcast network available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good to have you. And Doug Gottlie, the Dugger talking about Tua.

We spent 10 minutes on that. Let's move to LeBron. You know, you knew the late Kobe Bryant very well. You and I had talked about the dinner you had with him, and you knew him. His competitive nature was actually sometimes almost funny, and you're a competitive guy. MJ was petty at his Hall of Fame speech. 20-year-olds did not see Michael Jordan play live, Doug. They're going to see for the next five weeks Michael Jordan.

And that debate, which, by the way, LeBron watches, LeBron unfollow and follows people who are former against him. How do you think it plays for LeBron over the next six weeks not playing and watching a Michael Jordan Worship Fest takeover not only ESPN, but every debate sports talk show in the world? Not well for LeBron. Not well because, you know, when people see that last game, there's just no way you can possibly have a discussion about LeBron being the greatest player of all time in comparison to Michael Jordan. Because what LeBron fans do, and you're one of them, but, you know, guys like Nick Wright, who we like, they go, well, you know, in the 17th season end.

And like, look, Michael Jordan didn't play 17 straight seasons. He took a year and a half off for baseball. He played three years in college. But his last year, when he was 34, 35, he was the best damn player in the league. And in his last real game before he came out of his – like, the Wister thing didn't really happen. That's not really part of his career in his legacy. It's just not.

In his last real game, it wasn't just the final shot. It was that game, the jazz led the whole game, and then Jordan decided, you know what, I don't want to play another game. in Chicago. And he, I think he got foul, he made two free throws. Then he, you know, or he, I think he scored a bucket. Then he just got foul, made two free throws. Then he stole the ball from Carl Malone, who had a chance to ice the game. Then he cleared out. Then he went one-on-one. Then he hit a game-winning jump shot. And, you know, good night, drive home safely. It's just the way in which he completely and thoroughly dominated when he wanted to. It was the way in which he led, and he was

the unquestioned best player in the league. And the best player on the floor at all time. I just, yeah, I don't think it sits well with LeBron. Like, look, you look at his most recent comments, and he's like, you know, I think he said something like, there's no closure, you know. Jalen Rose came out today and said his, he thinks his window closes. I don't think his window closes if they, if they don't conclude this season. But I'm sure LeBron will sit here and like the rest of us, just be mouth-agate like,

Damn, I forgot what my people have forgotten what Michael Jordan did, how he was, how he carried himself, how he was just regal. And yeah, I don't think, LeBron's competitive. I don't know if he's what Michael was in terms of like a sociopath killer in terms of competitiveness. But he's sitting at home and he'll be chomping at the bed to get back in class. And the other thing is for millennials, 20-year-old, cool matters, style matters. What you're going to see is not only Jordan's greatness, but how cool he was. Like, LeBron's great, but I've never thought cool. I mean, I think Westbrook's got a cool factor, his fashion, his style.

Like, I don't think James Hardin's cool. I think Westbrook's kind of cool. I don't think Steph Curry is cool. But I can get people that think Kevin Duran is. Michael was not only the best player. He was the best looking, the best dress, the most fashionable. And I think for young people, they're going to watch that documentary and go, damn.

He is, I mean, it's, I, I, the shoes, sell today, right? Yes. I mean, look, he's still one of the most popular athletes in the world. He hadn't played in, what, 20 years? Like, the Jordan thing is crazy. I don't think it's repeatable or replicable because it was at the advent of cable television. Because he took the crown from Magic and Bird who saved the NBA.

You know, it was the iconic jumpman logo. He was the first one to rock the suits. He wore the diamond earrings. He made being bald, cool. He had the Jordan Walk. You know, everything about him was just otherworldly. And, you know, and he's not necessarily chasing even a ghost, right? Like for LeBron.

So, yes, I think people will, it'll bring back such incredible memories. And here's what, here's something that, It's ironic, right? This season, I don't believe it'll be lost to this thing. But, you know, I could be wrong. I think they're going to figure out a way to play some sort of playoff. I think they need to, you know, to capitalize on the fact that everybody's at home and they'll be watching TV and they need sports. I don't know if they can do it, but I think they will.

But the thing about Jordan's last year, the following year, had he decided, hey, let's still run it back. They had the lockout. He would have only had to play a shortened season. Wow. Right? Whereas now this is not the last year for LeBron, but LeBron could lose a title or chance at a title with the Lakers because of the coronavirus. So there is just kind of weird how had Jordan come back or, you know, they both might lose a title to kind of some unforeseen circumstance that we couldn't plan for. By the way, only about a minute and a half left. Giselle appears to have a lot of pull with Tom Brady.

You've been saying that for years. I have. I mean, listen, if you listen, if you think about why does she suddenly mention the concussions, he's skipping out of OTAs, I thought the one thing from the Howard Stern interview, which was real, was real, was him saying, like, look, I wasn't doing my part. She wrote me a letter. I took it to heart. I still have the letter. When you're a married guy, like, if mom ain't happy, nobody's happy. Plus, she's a super successful businesswoman. I think that this was, this was a, this was a. joined this in she wanted Miami. He couldn't play in Miami. The Chargers were too far away, so he's going to try and make it work in Tampa. I don't think necessarily compromise makes the best decision. I think he's going to try and make the best of it in Tampa, but I'm not sure that's a great fit. Yes, there's a lot of compromise in this decision with Tampa, and I think Giselle's a huge reason why.

Yeah. The Dugger, after our show, good luck, buddy, and thanks for coming on ours. All right. It's raining outside. Rainin. You know, I had a theory on this whole Corona thing. My theory, and I told Joey, I told you this yesterday, we had so much unseasonable rain in March. The stories are out now.

Corona was in New York in January from Europe. Corona was in Los Angeles in December and January. These stories have now been confirmed by people in the medical field. We had a very wet march in California, especially Los Angeles, and it kept us inside. So normally people are at the beach in early March. They're out. They're shopping. They weren't in Los Angeles.

This is just my theory. We may have gotten a huge weather break because in Los Angeles, we have 10 million people in L.A. County. We have 200 deaths. 40 from nursing homes. Those are people that are not, if we return to work, they're not even in that workforce. So, I mean, we really have not had the same experience with the virus. I mean, I think our management, our governor's been great. But like New York's dealing, you know, Lombardo, Italy, Madrid, other regions of the country,

there has been panic, there have been hospital surge, there have been 5, 10, 15,000 deaths. L.A. County, 10 million people, 200 deaths, 40 from nursing homes. And I think some of it is a weather break. We had about, I mean, Joy and I would come on the air every day. We're like, it's Seattle. We live in Seattle. It kept people in home, off beaches, off trails, out of parks for three weeks in the time when this was spreading like wildfire all over New York and California and Seattle. People were in their homes.

This has not been documented, but I'm fascinated the stories written when it's all said and done. Somebody's going to write that story and go, not only did our governor react quickly, did California get a bizarre weather break? forcing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, off beaches, into homes, out of restaurants, out of shopping, off parks. I don't know. It's something I've noticed. It's pouring again today. Going to be for the next 24 hours.

Mike Sershefsky. Coach K. Duke. So many things to talk about, including we'll touch on MJ. His experience is there. Hour two next, The Herd. One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen.

live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kier Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid?

Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Cliver Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast.

or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, it's Edwin Castro, also known as Castro 1021. And I'm Kunky, his best friend and business manager. And we've got a new show called The 1021 podcast. I'm taking you behind the scenes on how I became one of Twitch's most popular streamers. We also love sports. And with the World Cup right around the corner, we'll be breaking down the biggest storylines ahead of the big tournament here in the USA.

Listen to the 1021 podcast. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here we go, hour two absolutely jam. Coach K can't wait for a long interview with maybe my favorite basketball coach of all time. Coach K at Duke, this is The Herd, wherever you may be and however you may be listening. We're on IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, and FS1. We're so thankful you're joining us.

We feel very, very lucky. I just saw some ratings from the last week, TV, radio. podcasting digital. Remarkably, we're up. And I just want to thank those who have you have included us in your life. We hope we're adding some sense of, again, normalcy and habit to yours. You are giving us a purpose. I just want to thank you for that. Joy Taylor is joining me.

So these have been harder shows, but they've also been different shows where we are taking a second hour guest for 20, 30 minutes sometimes. And really doing a deep dive, Bill Simmons, Charles Barkley, Mark Cuban that we don't normally do. The way our clock works in TV, we don't normally do a 30-minute interview. But I'm having so much fun. And Coach KLB fantastic.

He's got, I mean, this guy is three gold medals, three different Olympic teams, plus an assistant with Michael Jordan on the Dream Team, all the final fours. Just fascinating. Just fascinating guy. And I can't wait to talk to him. Enjoy Taylor.

How are you? I'm great. It's exciting, though. You have to look at the positive in things. We don't get an opportunity to talk to a lot. of these guys. And they're also very busy people. So everybody's, you know, at home and got time on their hands. So we get to get amazing stories and spend time with them. Yeah. By the way, LeBron James says he won't have any closure if the NBA season is canceled. I do think the NBA

is strong enough and star-driven enough. It can overcome a misseason. I do. I think baseball is a sport of habit. And if we go 18 months with no baseball, that is irreparable, perhaps for the next half decade. NBA is star-driven. If they missed a season, you got KD next year, you got LeBron, you got Steph coming back, you got Clay coming back, the Brooklyn story, the Warrior story. I think you'll be fine. The Zion story, he's getting better. And you've got some really fun young teams. Denver and Dallas are young. They're excellent. They're getting better. Milwaukee and the Celtics are young and getting better. So I think the NBA can overcome it. But I do believe for LeBron, and I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I don't mean to be an alarmist,

I think this year is vital. There's five reasons why I think this is potentially the last year LeBron can win a title. Number one, he ain't getting younger. Number two, Anthony Davis has had lots of injuries. He's fairly brittle. This is as healthy with this rest as he's ever going to be. AD has never at this point in any NBA season been this rested and ready to go. Number three, the Lakers roster is the second oldest in the NBA.

Number four, it's a bad draft and a bad free agency class. There's no help on the horizon. And number five, the cap's going down because revenues are going down. So even if you attracted somebody, the Lakers ownership does not want to pay a big burden on the salary cap. So I think this is the year. Also, I think Golden State's going to be significantly better next year. Steff's back, Clay's back in a lottery pick. And I think the Clippers, because I think we've all worried about the Clippers chemistry a little bit this year.

Well, if they'd have another year to work on the chemistry, I think the Clippers would be a better basketball team next year. So I think this is the year for LeBron. I think he wants to get back. I think he needs to get back. I think the NBA needs to get back. I'm more positive than negative on that. And I'm just a basketball fan.

I grew up a huge college and pro basketball fan. Then I covered the UNLV basketball teams with Larry Johnson and Stacey Ogman. You know, my early career was shaped around college basketball. I love it. I still love it. Mark Few is one of my best friends. I love the old stories. And so I'm crossing my fingers on the NBA.

And I think there's one coach in my lifetime who has been able to cross the bridge college to pro back to college. And it's Mike Chishefsky. 40 years at Duke, five national championships, only coach to lead three team U.S.As to three consecutive Olympic gold medals. And he just interviewed Dr. Anthony Fauci, who is a remarkable American. He's 79 years old. And first of all, verbally, physically, he is so dynamic and roebris. bust and coach first of all thanks you recently interviewed him how did you find him to be he he was first of all thanks for having me on as always you i love i love your perspectives don't agree with

all of them that i love that you a lot of them though you know i won't bring up the ones i don't but uh it was such an honor first of all having them on my show and spending 30 minutes with him You know what he is? He's genuine. He's inspiring. And how often on your show have you been able to talk to somebody who is the very best at what they do? He is the most instinctive and best person in this world, and especially in our, well, at least in our country that we know, as far as infectious diseases are concerned. And so he's inspiring when he talks. and he was just so darn genuine. And I called him America's, I said, you're America's point guard. He was a point guard in high school. And just so genuine, just so genuine. You have as much as any coach in my life, and I'm a big believer in what I'm about to say.

People that succeed into their 60s and 70s do so by evolving. Rigidity, rigidity punctures even the smartest people. and I can name names I'm not going to. But you have spanned four and five decades because you're a thinking person, you've evolved. And it's funny. When you got into this business, there was a

sports section. And that was it. Letter to the editor. Now there's talk radio. There's social media. It is punitively punishing. It is harsh. It is unforgiving. I want to ask you, how do you deal with it? What do you tell your players now,

as you have spanned so many decades about the criticism from strangers to a, I don't know if I could have handled it, coach at 17 years old. I don't think I could have handled it. How do you discuss that, the psychological factor that has changed in your lifetime coaching? Well, you hit on one thing right away is that in order for a leader to put a message across to the people he has an honor to lead, he or she have to handle it the right way. So I do. You know, I don't, you know, it's a waste of time to get into arguments and not to, look, we have a lot of great things said about us,

and then we have a lot of questionable things said. And what I tell my players is this is how I handle it. I listen to the people who are knowledgeable, and sometimes they're critical. And you should always have an ear open to listen, you know, because that's how you can become adaptive. For them, I try to tell them, especially like late in the season, we had a great year, but we had two weeks where we weren't that good. And during that time, I talked to him about like, look, only listen to one voice. Listen to my voice, and I will tell you the truth. You know, don't let somebody else tell you who you are.

You know, you know who you are, and I'll help you. I know who you are as a player and as a college student. Listen to me. Listen to our staff. And really, I said going into your, you know, as you become adults, you will want a circle of people around you, not a big circle of people of people that you will want to listen to. You know, that will tell you the truth. That you don't have, that circle should be a small one. And so we talk to them about that.

And then we have a great social media. We have the best one in college sports. And so they're out there, too. We like them to be out there, but we like them to be out there under our umbrella. A lot of people may just think you go out and just, okay, I'm going to go get the best players. I don't believe you do that. Mark Fue is a friend of mine. It's all about fit.

So when I first saw Zion on, you know, Instagram and stuff, I thought he was really raw. I didn't see much beyond dunking. When I fell in love with him, it was his personality. And I have a belief the greatest players, Magic, Kobe, Michael, and I think Zion can be this. It's not just their game. It's their mind. They have to be strong, diligent, focused. When was the first time you met with Zion, who I just love the kid?

When was the first time you noticed? It was personality beyond performance. Yeah, right away when we visited with him at home. men in his school when we were recruiting them. You could tell, one, he, you know, a big thing, not that he doesn't love his stepfather, he really loves his mother. That's a key thing, you know, like that you have the ability to love somebody who you respect, who has brought you up, who has taught you. And he had this engaging personality. He's really smart. You know, all the guys that you mentioned, you're talking about people who are not just smart off the court

and preparation and whatever. They are smart in the moment that action is happening. I've talked, I had an interview about a month now, three weeks ago where I talked about Kobe and LeBron, you know, coaching them on the Olympic teams. And they were, they're brilliant at the moment it's happening. And that's unusual. You know, like I can be, I can be smart at a timeout and whatever. But when you have somebody who is playing the game and is not just smart about his or her play, but the play of a unit, boy, you have something, that's the treasure. And all those guys had it. And Diane has it. The other thing, one other thing, I don't know if I'm not talking too long. Oh, no, we got nothing but time.

The other thing, Colin, is that great players want to be coached. Like you just mentioned about who they listen to. They listen to their coach. They want to be coached. They want to be coached hard. They want to be told the truth. Now, they don't necessarily want to have that put out to the world. I think they're private in how you do it.

But they want it. my best players at Duke have wanted it. And then for the 11 years, I coached the U.S. team. Those guys wanted it. And not that I did a great job of coaching, but I developed really good relationships with them. And those are unique. That's the talent. Yes.

When people start comparing people, like who is the greatest and all that, a lot of times, they don't get into the area that we're talking about. The influence of being able to make your teammates better at the moment it is happening is huge. It's just huge. And all the guys you mentioned have it. I think Zion has it still. Yeah. You know, you coach not only, and you're really the only coach that has done this.

I think Beheim deserves credit too. And you guys are, you know, very different people. And I love you both. But you've bridged that gap between college and pro. And you also, by the way, were an assistant on the 92 Dream Team. So you saw four different dream teams. Some are probably better defensively. Some are more dynamic offensively.

I want to go back to Michael Jordan, who's going to have a 10-part documentary on my former employer, ESPN. Do you remember, because I'm sure you recruited him, do you remember the first time you saw Michael Jordan play in high school? You know, we didn't recruit him. He wasn't a highly, he wasn't, you know, Buzz Peterson was the state player of the year. that year in North Carolina, and the two of them have become great, great friends,

and Boz is terrific. But we never recruited him because he had all, you know, he committed to North Carolina. I got a chance to see him where he was beating our butt. Right. Because you were early, Michael, with you, you had not developed the juggernaut yet at Duke. Right. So as you were building that, Mike, here was this young, wiry, relentless player. Did you immediately know once you saw

at Carolina? Oh boy, this is different. Yeah. You know, in the 40 years I've had a honor to coach at Duke and in the ACC, to me that the two players, the two opponents that I think were the most talented were Michael and Lynn Baez. And they were, they had the it. Yeah, whatever that means, they had it.

And it's tragic that. we never got to see Len show that with the Boston Celtics. But we did obviously get a chance to see it with Michael. You also had one of the great players. I covered him because I covered UNLV for years. Christian Leitner is such a

iconoclastic. I mean, when we think of great players, he was this tall, unique personality, polarizing in college. I can remember him playing Shaq and getting the best of him. He's interesting. So I guess was he coachable to?

No, he's the best. He was the biggest believer. He would take a bullet for me. He is also one of those guys that could do it at the moment it was happening and make his teammates better. He was like a point center. And, you know, Colin, in the history of college basketball, he has to go down as one of the top five players. Yes, best I've ever seen because I didn't see Walton and I didn't see – I didn't see Kareem or Walton. You know, and if you in college were for four years and were able to go to the NCAA tournament each year, you could play a maximum of 24 games.

You have to win six to win the tournament. Christian's record in the NCAA tournament was 21 and 2. 21 and 2. You know, like he was an alien, really. He, you know, it didn't translate as much into the pro game. He was a good pro player. But college-wise, I've not coached a bigger winner than Christian Leight. Now, he's the best player to ever play at Duke.

Coach Kay, for the record, you did not recruit Michael. I imagine you didn't recruit LeBron because he was going to the pros. Right. Do you remember, though, the first practice you ever had with LeBron with a dream team? Do you remember that practice? Well, we had it actually, you know, the one time when we took over, we lost in 2006 in the World Championship. So I got a chance to see him when he was 18 or 19. And, you know, as a player, he did not know yet.

that he was as smart or that he had the leadership voice that he has displayed as he's matured. What I did notice, this is an interesting thing, is I did notice how smart he was. These guys would play cards all the time and one of the times in Japan, and not for, you know, they're just playing. And I watched them play, trying to get to know them. And I don't know what game they were playing, but there are a lot of them, the table and LeBron orchestrated the table. He knew what everybody had. He knew whatever. And I said, this kid is really smart. I mean, he and he's got a personality. And as we, then when he joined again in 2007 to qualify for the 2008 Olympics and Kobe then joined the

team, I had really the two smart, two of the smartest players to ever play any sports. and they meshed. Thank goodness. God bless both of them. They made each other better. You know, I had a former accountant who used to say this. He said he had a lot of successful clients, and he said, they never talk about failure. That's baked into success. You fail because you take chances aggressively. They do talk occasionally about regret. And I look at you, and I think to myself, oh, you could have had the Laker job. The late Kobe Bryant was somebody that, you know, I think probably tried to recruit you once or twice to the NBA.

Have you ever had a night that you thought, you're watching the NBA and you're thinking, maybe I should have given it a run? You know, I haven't. And I think coaching 11 years, the U.S. team, I probably would have had it in this time. And if I was a college coach with the success I had when I was in my, late 40s and early 50s now, I think I'd probably end up being an MBA coach. College has become crazy. It's crazy.

And you can't develop the relationships that you used to. But here's crazy, my luck, which has always been very good. The two times that I seriously thought about the NBA was, in 1990, Dave Gabbitt just took over the Celtics, and he's one of the visionaries, one of the great, great men, and a good friend. He offered me the Celtics job. And I went up, I actually met with Red Arbach and Dave, and I turned it down.

In the next two years, we won our first two national championships. Wow. The Laker thing in 205, I was close to doing it, and I turned it down, and a few months later, Jerry Colangelo offered me the chance to be the U.S. coach. So I think I might have regret it because those were the two iconic franchises. Those were the two franchises as I grew up as a player and a young coach. I said, holy macro, the Celtics, the Lakers. Are you kidding me?

But because those things happened and I got a chance to coach these great players on the U.S. I've not looked back. And I've loved coaching a Duke. You know, I, damn, I, you know, it's been, it's been a good gig for me. Oh, no. It's, you know, I used to, as I covered Tark, and I love Tark. I did too. You know, one of the things I always remember, and I don't know if I've told you this.

So Tark was a contradiction sometimes. There were sometimes he was so darn honest that he was also kind of. of a fun BSer. But the thing I loved about Tark, you came and said one time, I covered you to Final Four in Denver. And you came in and said, the thing that impresses me about UNLV and Tark, he goes, you said, I have never seen in my career a team play this hard. Right. You don't, I don't know if you know this.

Yeah. Jerry Tarkhanian. Yes. Because it's true. Jerry Tarkanian, I've never seen him happier. I've never seen him smile more. it literally that was the kind of thinking you know how coaches can be sort of tough on each other and they don't want to compliment recruiting um i go back and i remember thinking how big it was of

you to say that did did he ever share to you how much that meant to him yeah you know we actually became good friends and uh danny you know his he wrote a book yeah you know rebel with the cause and and asked me to do the forward and i said i'd be an it'd be an honor. So I did the forward to that book. And people do not understand just how good a coach that guy was. He, you know, he had immense talent, okay? And it's not easy to get that level of talent to play that hard and unselfishly.

And at times you can get them to play unselfishly offensively. they played unselfishly defensively. And that's what made them great. And we had a hell of a team in 92. We had this new guy named Grand Hill. Yes, I remember. They weren't as the talent difference was not.

I mean, we were pretty talented too. So that wasn't as big an upset as people would say. No. But what great basketball, huh, during that time? Oh, it was, it's incredible. I wrote about that in my first book, is that people just don't understand that Grant Hill was new, and you got better as the season. I think Grant was a freshman, so you got better with Grant Hill.

Who at the time, I mean, if people would forget this, at the time, Grant Hill was considered the next great American basketball prodigy. Yeah, and he would have been. And, you know, in his first five years on the pros, he put up numbers in the top five to ten. of the NBA. Yep. And then he got injured. And, but he was that good. And he was our answer, at least to, not negating Stacey Ogman, but not letting him be

Stacey Ogman, you know, and, and, and, and, we never had that the year before. We were just steamrolled. They were so damn good. Yeah. By the way, do you get frustrated at all? Final question, Mike Shoshchewski. I've always considered you not only a basketball coach, but a mentor and a, you. a voice of your sport and the face of your sport.

There's a certain burden of responsibility with that. You perhaps don't see it as a burden, but it's a big mantle to carry. Some college coaches have come out on this virus, and I just roll my eyes at it. I think Brian Kelly's been very, very smart. Are you ever get disappointed sometimes with a parochialism of some college coaches and the messages they send? And I think you do the same in your profession. What it is, you know, we don't have one of the failures during my time as a coach,

and it won't be corrected before I retire, is that we do not have a leader for college basketball. Right. You know, like it's not run. It's run by committee. And if our coaches association and there was a commissioner for college basketball, in an office and everything like that because it's a billion-dollar business. I think we would come out more with one voice. And as a result, sometimes people make comments like it's like right after a game

and for social issues and things like that. And then they didn't really mean all that they said. Right, right. And I think we would be, yeah, it is disappointing. It's disappointing that we don't come. out with a more unified voice. And as a college coach, we represent

the college player, not the college coach. And we should be the voice of the college player in the environment that that college player is in now, not 10 years ago or 20. And we should help streamline the changes that are needed to help the college player.

And we don't, we don't do that. There's no way we do that. And that's a failing. That's, that's why we're, you know, we're, we're in the dark ages and some of the, some of these things. And I'm saying that the NCAA came out with a great decision to hold all the sports and all that, but really how we, you know, how we run this thing is not, it's not, it's not, It's not good.

And it's not good. Now, how we're doing the virus, look, listen to Dr. Fauci. Right, right. Listen to the scientists. Yeah. You know, and to me, it's an amazing thing that all these press conferences that are run, that's, those are the only people I want to hear from. He's our North Star. He is.

And let's just, let's do the right thing, man. you know, this has never been done before. You know, they're learning too. And they're going up and saying, this is what we're learning. Don't do this. This other stuff. Okay. And then give us a chance to learn.

And by the way, you know, as this keeps going, let's test so we can learn some more. So when it'll probably come back at some time in some form, then we can kick the hell out of it. Right. We can beat it. We can beat it before. Jump ball. Right now, we can't beat it like that. And that's why these health care providers, you know, in about 45 minutes, I'm going to have the honor to speak to our North Carolina Nurses Association. And are you kidding me? These are heroes. Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I was in the military. I went to Westpontas, never in

combat. These people, even people in combat in the military, they go and they're in the front lines. God bless them for doing that. Then they come back to base camp and they get rejuvenate, not completely rejuvenated, but then they go out again. And the health care providers, they're on the front lines and they can't go home. There's fear all the time that they're going infect their own families. This has never been done before. It's never happened. These people are amazing, just amazing. And whatever we can do to help them. And then let's not let this happen again.

Right. Yeah. Let's be prepared and not let this happen again. Anyway, I get so emotional talking about it and talking about it with these people because I feel, right, I heard our attorney general say something this worrying about, you know, maybe we can get back so people won't have to be home and hiding under their beds. Hey, listen, man, we're not hiding under our beds. We're doing what the hell we're supposed to be doing. Right. Don't, you know, what are we talking about when people say stuff?

Colin, really, if I'm, slap me in the face if that's wrong, but we shouldn't say stuff like that. Well, I mean, social distancing works. The states that have been. Yes. It's. It's Washington State, Oregon, California. I live in a state. It's very smart and very progressive. We jumped on it early, and we have not had the hospital surge. Yeah, I don't know your governor, but when he talks... No, it's great.

Like, he's great. Yes. Like, he had the courage to do this, you know, forget about party lines. Anyway, I'm talking too much, but... You know what? You know what? We hadn't talked in a long time, and you... know my regard for you, and I appreciate you and having the passion. I think you speak well

for your industry, and I just love you, and I want to thank you for coming on. Yeah, thanks, Con. That's always a pleasure and an honor. Keep doing what you're doing now, all right. All right. Coach K. Mike Shosheski, basketball, and be on with Coach K, Sirius XM show. I just love stuff like that. We'll take a break. It's the hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays at noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays,

the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross,

you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise.

the drama, the alliances, and the T, everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, I'm just talking too much. So I got to get to Joy Taylor with a nose.

This is the herd line news. That was a great time with Coach Kay. Yeah, he was amazing. He was terrific. So James Winston is on the market after losing his job with the bucks to Tom Brady. And James is actually taking the whole situation as a compliment. One thing about Tom Brady is understood that he is the goat for you to get replaced by Tom Brady in a city that you love. much. I guess that's kudos to me.

I do think James is going to end up somewhere this year. The same way I think that Cam will end up somewhere this year. It's just going to be a matter of need and probably injury. I think before the Tom Brady thing happens, I assume that they were going to move off James regardless. This was like the feeling after the year you could hear how Bruce Ariens was talking about it. He was clearly not happy with James's performance this year.

And it always kind of felt like to me that. that if Bruce Ariens wasn't going to be able to turn this around with James, that he wasn't going to end up being with Tampa Bay long term. That said, I still think he can play. I'm interested to see how he plays now that he's had this eye surgery as well. But he has a good attitude about everything that's going on. Listen, he, the Buccaneers wanted Bridgewater or Brady, low mistake guys. So he'd clearly warn them out.

He's a very unique all-time player. Most guys that don't make it in this league, like Marcus Moriota was not productive enough. right? James is wildly productive. I mean, think of it. If I said, you know, this guy was, he just kind of whiffed. He wasn't, you'd be like, ah, he's not good enough. James is productive. He's just so mistake prone. So I think there's a job for him. My question is, and I think this with Mario-Ota, I'm not going to build around him,

but employment, oh, absolutely. He's productive. You can't deny his productivity. Right. But you've got to pay attention to the productivity that, he provides for the other team as well. The odds on Fox bets, the Jaguars are favored at plus 225, dolphins plus 375, the Saints plus 425, Broncos and Steelers plus 600, and the Patriots plus 700. Maybe I could see the Broncos or the Jags.

I don't think that the Dolphins make sense. They have Fitzpatrick and they're going to draft a quarterback, so that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Jaguars make sense, but he's going to be a backup. Usually when you bring him a backup like James Winston, you want him to match the style of play at the starter. Well, he's not a celebrity, though. So I could put in Jameson.

I would put Jameson as a backup in one second. I wouldn't put Cam as a backup. I wouldn't put Tebow as a backup, Baker Mayfield. But I would have no problem. If I had an offense and I had people that I thought could get up and down the field receivers, oh, I put Jameson as a backup. I said, I actually think Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh makes sense to me.

Pittsburgh is always made. He's got a big arm. So much like, and he's mobile enough. So he's like Big Ben. He makes some mistakes. He's not really great with details. But over the top throws, big arm could move a little, can withstand hits. James is a very poor man's big Ben to some degree.

I don't think this, the Steelers are a bad fit for James. My question is, is Mike Tomlin interested in? and James. My Tomlin is a very serious guy. And while their styles are sort of similar, Ben Rothesberger and James, I don't know if their personalities are similar. So the Panthers ended the Cam Newton era and are starting fresh with Teddy Bridgewater this season. And head coach Matt Ruhl gave some insight into why Carolina made this move. You have to make tough decisions about your roster. And at the end of the day, you always have to do what's in the best interest of the team moving forward. And we felt that this decision was that. It's not easy when it really for any

of the guys that have moved on from the team. But this is one that we felt we had to make. We felt that we felt that Teddy Bridgewater was the guy for us, for our system, for this time. And, you know, it doesn't reflect on anyone else. It's just that we felt like Teddy was the right guy for us moving forward. I think he's the perfect fit for us, for our offense, and for this, where this team wants to go.

The ultimate distributor for a coach who likes distributors. And if you were going to make a move away from Camden, this is the year to do it. You have a new coach, you have a new owner. Everything is starting over. I think Cam Newton has more football to play, as do you. But if you're going to start new, having one more year with Cam Newton where you're not really sure what he's going to be coming off these injuries, it makes sense to go to Teddy Bridgewater. We knew Teddy Bridgewater was going to end up a starter somewhere this year after his performance with the Saints last year.

So whether it was Tampa Bay or Carolina or the Bears or wherever, this seems like a fit for Teddy Bridgewater. I'm happy for Teddy Ridgewater. That doesn't mean that I feel any differently about what Cam Newton is still capable of doing. Yeah. It just was the right time to move off of him. So a little bit of news from the NBA. This was kind of up in the air, how things were going to go with NBA players being paid in this quarantine. Well, the NBA players received their last paycheck on April 1st, but they were not guaranteed any payment after that.

But the league reportedly sent a memo to teams today and said that players will receive full paychecks on the next payment date April 15th. according to Woge, the NBA and MBPA have been negotiating a withholding of percentage of players' salaries for upcoming paycheck dates. The next one is May 1st, and the league may keep a percentage of salaries based on canceled games, but they will be paid through the month of April. So, I mean, obviously everyone is kind of in the same situation. If you're not working, you know, how things are going to go moving forward, depending on how long the lockdown continues. but this is kind of tricky because some players have full guarantees in their contracts. I believe nine players with clutch sports, including LeBron, have those. Some of the other players don't.

And there's obviously a giant disparity between the top players in the NBA and the lower level guys, you know, missing a paycheck or two is going to impact people differently. Obviously, keeping this all in perspective of what we're all going through. but it is going to play a role eventually in how much they're pushing for the season to get finished because there's a lot of guys in the league that aren't in the same pay scale. Yeah. If LeBron wants the league to be finished, that would go a long way because LeBron doesn't need the season to be finished because he's got his money. But LeBron has been kind of the Pied Piper of the League.

If LeBron wants something, he gets something. So let's listen to LeBron's words and thoughts, and I think he'll lead us to where we're eventually going. That's Joy with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Live News. Here's some bad news for LeBron. I'll get to it on the other side. Next, live in L.A. The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox

Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games,

from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to SportsSlice on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

We get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have really. Real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out.

Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet.

Help! Somebody! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite, I'll be changing lives,

helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man. If I'm calling you,

even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scary. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the MyCultura podcast network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want to own and do you own or rent a home?

Sure you do. Fortunately, Geico makes it easy to bundle your home and auto insurance. Good thing, too, because having a home is hard work. Go to Geico.com. could save a lot, geico.com. I want to thank Coach Kay. We've had three weeks of really, really interesting guests. We try to give you a half hour, 25, 30-minute guest every day, second hour.

From Mark Cuban to Charles Barkley to Bill Simmons, just had Coach Kay. Rich Climitt is KD's business manager. He was fantastic. We feel very, very fortunate. People have hopped on board the show. So LeBron James said yesterday, he won't have any closure if the NBA season cancels. We're all crossing our fingers on that. There is some pessimism out there.

There's also some optimism. I don't know if the NBA season is canceled. My guess is it's canceled in Los Angeles, meaning you'd have to have a centralized location. I'm a West Coast guy. I've lived in the South. I've lived in the Northeast. I've lived in the desert Southwest.

I loved all of them. The West is different. It's more progressive, more liberal governors, bigger states, fewer people. We've been, we're smart, we've led the nation and the world in tech. It's the most creative region of the country from Hollywood to tech. Most of our money is Maynodd creation. A lot of money in the Northeast is hedge funds and banking and law.

Those are traditional businesses. A lot of non-traditional stuff out here. I love living out here. Again, the weather's better. We don't have a true winter outside of the mountains. and I think we have smart people. Very progressive governors up and down the coast, Washington, Oregon, California, and our governors are going to push back.

They're going to push back on restarting the business. Governors in the South are going to save the SEC football season any way they can't. It doesn't mean they're bad people. But there is a different sensitivity and sensibility out west. And I've lived in every corner of the country, so I speak from a country. experience and I don't believe there's another talk show host that's doing a national show that has lived in all four corners of the country. If there is, I don't know who it is.

And every region is different. But the West Coast, we're progressive. Sometimes we're a little finesse. We don't have, you know, in the Northeast, they're tough. Their basketball is tougher. The way they live is tougher. Smaller states, more people. You're fighting for everything.

You're fighting at stoplights. Out west, we got a lot of space. You know, we like the nice weather. That's why people from the east often move out to the West. They're tired of the rough winters. I think we were the first region to really jump on this, and that's why I love living here. We really haven't faced the kind of intensity and hospital surge

other regions have. The downside is we'll probably be, the West can be like a really protective mother. We'll probably be the last to loosen up. We've got a lot of regulations. out west. You know, we do. We are heavy on the regulations. That saves us during a virus, and it may ding us a little bit economically because I think we're the last to go back in. We will be overly protective. I mean, the city of Los Angeles, L.A. County's got 10 million people.

We have 200 deaths, 40 in nursing homes. I mean, this is the second biggest city in the United States. I don't think you're going to have basketball. I mean, the governor, who I like Gavin Newsom, said three or four days ago, he does not see the NFL season starting on time. Well, translation, the NBA season is over in Los Angeles. Because that would have to start in June. And the football could start in September. So the NBA season, LeBron's season, the Clippers' greatest season,

it is not happening in Los Angeles, which tells, tells me the centralized location ideas are the only ideas that can work because governors out West will push back big on this. They will. And governors have a lot of power. There are certain things federally where, you know, Trump or whoever's in the White House can dictate. But governors will push back and governors out West will push back. And I love the West. It's my favorite place I've ever lived.

And many of the things we've benefited from in the last two months are because we're smart. and we're on things early, and we evolve, and we're not stuck in the past, and we, that's why Silicon Valley fuels our economy. If Silicon Valley's helped everybody, if you'd see the building out west in the last 10 years, it's incredible. Everywhere, booming. But our governor in California is going to push back. He is, and that's who we are. And so I think the NBA season, unless they centralize the location, it's done at least in Los Angeles County. Okay, Greg CoSell, Jay Glazer, both, our three, been fun so far in L.A., it's the Herd.

One more Herd? The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Live in L.A. Hour 3, this is The Herd, wherever you may be, and however, you may be listening. IHeart Radio, Fox Sports Radio, FS1, 15 minutes, Jay Glazer, talking. and James Winston Cam Newton, the market for people out there. Some draft stuff. 30 minutes Greg CoSell.

He's got great stuff today. You want to listen to Greg CoSell. He'll be fantastic. All sorts of mock drafts. We're getting close now, folks. Two weeks away, two Thursdays away from the NFL draft. And Joy Taylor is joining me. Joy, how are you?

I'm great. This is like the perfect time of year for you. You're a draft nerd. You're getting all into the mock drafts. News coming out. It's great. It is great. I saw this before I get to Jay Glazer.

Rex Ryan, Brady made the Patriots great. Give Belichick, Gino Smith, and see if he wins. Let's revisit Belichick a little bit here. Let me defend Bill Belichick. Belichick was 11 and 5 in Cleveland in year four. He turned it around. That's not an opinion. He had turned it around.

He won. Then the crappy owner screwed it up, moved the team to Baltimore. And the whole franchise for the next year was a mess. He was three and one when Tom Brady couldn't play during the flake gate. And 11 and 5, the Matt Castle year when Tom Brady didn't play. Got hurt early. Belichick, along with Bill Walsh, in my opinion, maybe Vince Lombardi, best coach all the time. The other thing that's lost in the who's more valuable Brady-Belichick run,

Tom Brady was not Tom Brady in the first part of this dynasty. The first Super Bowl, Tom Brady, was an 86 passer rating quarterback, 18 TDs, 12 picks. Belichick's coaching and the defense carried Tom. Brady's second Super Bowl, he was up to a, oh wait, again, an 86 passer rating, completed just 60% of his throws. 23 TDs, 12 picks. Belichick defense and kicking carried Brady in the second Super Bowl. He was an asset, but he was being carried, not carrying. In Brady's third Super Bowl, he was now basically, Matt Ryan, 28 TD's 14 picks, 92 passer rating, 61% completion percentage.

He was now a valuable asset. It was still defense kicking. that was mostly winning the Super Bowls. Then the next two, Brady of the first five, Brady was now an MVP-level player and deserves at least 50, perhaps more, probably more than 50%. But in Brady's last Super Bowl against the Rams, he was anemic. And that was won by Belichick's defense, the Patriots kicking game,

and the offensive line and running the football. So of the six Super Bowls, the first three absolutely, and the last one indisputably, it was more Belichick than Brady. I think Tom's the best quarterback ever. I am not disputing that. But let's slow down on the he wouldn't have won as much with Gino Smith. Nobody wins in this league big with Gino Smith. Nobody.

But I don't think anybody in the current NFL wins as much with Tom Brady either. So let's stop there. That seems reasonable to me. A second football topic I want to address. Justin Herbert quarterbacks for Oregon. My guys are at least, I could be getting BSed, are really cool on Justin Herbert. I'm not. I think he's a franchise guy.

He'll be good very early. Now, I want to establish this. Joe Burrow last year for LSU. Everybody talks about what a great athlete he is. He ran for five touchdowns. Justin Herbert last year ran for four. Justin Herbert's career rushing touchdowns 13. Burroughs in college, 13.

Justin Herbert is athletic. Maybe he's not as athletic as Joe Burrow, but he's athletic. He also has a better arm than Joe Burrow. Now, people say the knock on Justin Herbert is, well, he's not very good off script. Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garoppolo. Are they? because they've been in three Super Bowls in three years. Now, nobody thinks he's Wentz, Russell Wilson, Mahomes, Deshaun Watson.

But those are all-time mobile players. When Justin Herbert is discussed by Lance Zerline, a former NFL scout, data coach in the NFL, here's the things they say about him. Positives. Great size. Pro-ready. full field reader, gets pro-passing concepts, operates with pre-snap plan, recognizes matchups, throwing process well-balanced, quiet, and repeatable, rocket arm, able to alter arm slots to work around traffic,

fluid stride, rolls well in either direction. Here's the knocks on him. His play is a little bit more mechanical than maestro. Welcome to the history of the league. Andy struggles to escape sudden pressure. Outside of four guys named Russell and Lamar and Wentz, who doesn't? All I'm saying is this. He's going to get much better coaching in the NFL than college. Patrick Mahomes had a losing college record.

What does that tell you? He got Andy Reed. Russell Wilson's college football coach at North Carolina State. said, you know what, you can transfer. I like Mike Glennon more than you. I'm not making that up. Coaching matters. It's why Michael Vick's best years and Alex Smiths

were with the same guy Andy Reid. It's why Jeff Fisher and Sean McVeigh had different outcomes with Jared Gough. It's why Jimmy Garoppolo is really getting paid a lot. Belichick to Kyle Shanahan. By and large, NFL coaching, a lot better than college, a lot better. And I think Justin Herbert, who didn't have any NFL tight ends or wide receivers or NFL concepts much to deal with, there's no way if I'm the

Chargers and I need a quarterback and he's there and Tua and Burrow are taken, there is no way I can pass on him. I mean, I get he's not great off script. Strengths, weaknesses. I believe his weaknesses can be altered and his strengths can't be taught. You cannot be taught to have his arm. I can teach you to be a little better off script. Roll the pocket. I believe I can elevate you as an NFL coach. I don't think you can teach what he can do.

Throwing it sideways, big arm, four-point student. You're smarter you're not by the time you're 22. Jay Glazer is now joining us. Jay is going to be on a show called Fox Football Now Tonight. 11 Eastern on FS1. Joey and I were just talking about this that I think there's a market for James Winston.

I think it's probably as a backup going forward or as an emergency starter. Your sources. Do you hear there's any market for him going forward? You know, because this draft, and by the way, before we start, Colin, this is two days in a row that I'm coming on your show. I know.

And for me, that's kind of like a committed relationship. This actually may be my longest term committed relationship now. That's funny. So, James, he is basically getting hamstrung by so much supply out there. It's supply and demand. And you had an awful lot of supply out there with veteran quarterbacks, and you have a lot of supply out there with rookie quarterbacks coming in as well.

So if this was, you know, a year ago, when people were really looking for quarterbacks, you saw with the Jaguars, they went and they traded for Nick Foles, it would have been a different scenario. But right now there's just so much supply that, you know, a guy like Jamesis, he'll be in a league somewhere, without a doubt. He'll be somewhere. But also, look, the one thing he has going against him is,

and we have Bruce Ariens on the show tonight, if Bruce Ariens can't turn somebody around where they're not an interception machine, I don't know how many other coaches are going to go, well, Bruce couldn't do it, but I can. Usually, his league is filled with egos, where you say to yourself, they couldn't do it, but I can't.

That's not the case with Bruce Arients and quarterbacks. Yeah, it's almost like Belichick with defensive backs. Like if Bill can't solve you as a corner, you're probably not an NFL player because Bill, Bill takes, I mean, I mean, really, he, Bill and Nick Saban are masters at the cornerback position. And to your point, if Arians can't solve your issues, maybe they're unsolvable. Let me ask you about, you are one of these guys that always knows who's going to get drafted before they get drafted. And I always feel like I get BS'd, I get BS a little bit by GMs and scouts. people. But I do believe if we didn't have a virtual draft, there would be a lot of trades. But I do think the virtual nature of this, do you think it's going to make it a fairly

pedestrian draft in terms of where you're slotted because of the phone issues? You're just going to pick where you're slotted. No, I don't. I think they're still going about this where it's still, now it's up to the general manager. I think they're actually maybe a little more because, um, general managers don't have a million people in their ears that day sitting right next to them. Usually when you do trade, you turn around, you talk to the room, you ask, and that's not the case right now. And in a situation like this, it's almost to be like, all right, our board's going to be set. And listen, Colin, these teams, they mess with their boards right up until draft.

It's unbelievable. I've been in draft rooms, in war rooms. They change things the day of. And I'm talking when somebody has somebody, we know we're going to take this guy in the top ten. And all of a sudden, hey, look, the Dallas Cowboys, I don't know if I've ever said this on the show before, the Dallas Cowboys years ago under Parcells, Jeff Ireland was doing the draft. They were absolutely taking Sean Merriman with the, those eight or 10th or something along those lines, 11th six. And the morning of the draft, they switched over to Marcus Ware.

So, yeah, 365 days, 364 before, they had, they were all Sean Merriman, right? And then the morning of, they just, you know what, they had a feeling they switched it up. and they went to DeMarcus Ware. And it was saying what Seahawks almost drafted Andy Dalton one year and they changed off to a to a tackle instead. And if they did get Andy Dalton,

they probably wouldn't have drafted Russell Wilson. You know, and they changed the day of. It really is incredible. So I do think that you're still going to have the same amount of subterfuge here. I think you're still going to have the same amount of soap opera and guys looking to trade because now also they realize, you know, what their needs are.

but I don't think I think this will be a different draft than last year especially because of the receivers. Last year there were no receivers that went early. This year you can get receivers throughout all seven rounds. Yeah, I saw somebody in the NFL, a scout said yesterday, you can get a starting wide receiver in this draft in the fifth round. That is incredible.

Belichick obviously has a lot of pull on personnel. Are there two or three other coaches that really have strong influence on draft day, on picks? A lot of them. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Sean Payton's the world, absolutely. Okay. Yo, without a doubt, there's a ton of them. Look, the best teams out there also are the teams where the general managers are going to pick the players that the coach is going to use. So not the player that he wants, but the player that the coach is going to use.

Look, look at Kevin Colbert, you know, he's like, I'm not, he's going to get players that Mike Tomlin's going to use in his system, right? You know, Andy Reid is also a guy, obviously. Yeah, but Andy, it's got to be a team. It's got to be your personal guy and your GM and even your negotiated or cap guy. It's got to be a three-headed team together. You've got to work perfectly together. So Andy will certainly listen to what his personal guys have to say.

He'll have his own eye, but he gives an awful lot of credence to what they say also. And that's how it should be. You know, it shouldn't be a dictatorship. You know, Jay, a couple years ago, I was in the Chargers War Room and part of their draft board, which they don't let the public see. They had like 12 guys. They took off because of injuries. They just undraftable players.

And one of them right now is a pretty good player in the league. How many teams do you think, how many teams do you think, have taken two off the board for medical reasons? That's a great question. And the reason why it's a great question is, I don't. know how many teams have, teams, I think, would want to see it with their own eyes, get their own doctor to really see it. And I know that they're talking to the doctors on there. When you have a hip like that that comes out, you're always going to be concerned that it comes out, it's going to continue to pop out, it's going to continue to be an issue.

But also, there's a lot of times when you're in love with the kid, you're going to tend to make sure you hear the information that you want to hear. Do that make sense? Yeah. Right? Right. You want to. hear all the great stuff. If it's going to be fine, that's what you want to hear. Yeah, it's confirmation bias. We're all guilty of that, right?

Yes. In relationships in football. The show tonight is Fox Football Now at 11 Eastern on FS1, Jay Glazer, owner of Unbreakable Performance Centers. When you go through with the draft, you have to, you get a lot of information and people trust you. You know what else I do? You know what else I do, Colin?

I don't do a mock draft. and I don't do a mock draft because I don't want a lot of the fans. So I want my guys, my guys call me up and they say, hey, Jake, listen, here's who we're going to take. But you tell us, like, do we need to move up? Can we move down? And that's where all kind of, I'll broker information on those days. Or I also tell a guy, listen, man, that guy for you, you're not going to mess with him. Or he's not going to mess with your head coach.

He's better for this place. So it's a fun little position to be in. But as a result of somebody says, hey, Jay, we're going to take something such. but you can't tell anybody. Well, I can't tell anybody. It's off the record. It's off the record. So I'm not going to lie to the fans.

And as a result of that, coaches and GMs have been more apt to tell me what they're going to do over time. And that's what I love doing. We're doing it. I'm hosting again this year for Fox Sports Radio the first round. Oh, I love it, man. I live for that night. When you look at there's always going to be rumors. My theory is quarterbacks don't drop.

They drive the league. People move up. Has there been a team to you that is always aggressive? Like there's Cincinnati generally they draft where they're... Saints are always aggressive. Saints to you would be aggressive. Okay. Yeah, I mean, they did it from Marcus Davenport.

They tried to trade up for Marcus Peters a few years ago. Yeah, they're always aggressive, absolutely. Miami's got... Are the Redskins you think would be aggressive? Well, they go back and forth. They're always, you know, now I don't know how it's going to be with Rivera, but obviously Dan Snyder, he'd always been willing to go all over the place. When Ron didn't go after Cam and went after Kyle Allen, does that tell me there's no current

market for Cam? Well, the problem with Cam, again, is he has two injuries, not just one, and they affect both his weapons, which is his running ability and throwing ability. So don't be a market for Cam. I think, you know, after the draft, but it's not going to be the market he was hoping. hoping for. Or if somebody was hoping to get a quarterback and they miss out on the guy they wanted, then Cam is still sitting there.

I think people want to see who Cam is also. You know, did he have the mindset, a hungry mindset of a guy who, you know, took that team to the Super Bowl and lead the MVP? Or is he a mindset of, but, yeah, I'm a brand. I'm good. So there's a lot of questions there and you can't answer them because you can't get in front of them. That's what's hurting camp.

If there was no virus right now, Sam Newt would likely be somewhere. He'd likely be on a gym. Fox Football now, Tonight 11 Eastern, FS1, Jay Glazer's on it interviewing Alden Smith and Bruce Ariens. Excited for that. I'll be watching, Jay. Thank you.

And it's the first interview for Alden since he signed, and we'll actually be shown some training videos. First time people will be able to see the new 287-pound Alden Smith. There you go. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, buddy. You bet. Greg CoSell at the bottom of the hour.

So we are rolling. We are rolling. Everybody needs a great pair of wireless earbuds. Podcasting these days. I mean, let's be honest. We are consuming. I am, the most content I have in my life. Documentaries, I'm watching one per night.

I'm going to do watch that weird Beekram Yoga one, the leader of Beakram Yoga. Oh, yeah. What's it called Guru or something? Yeah, that's my wife says, I got. to watch it, so I'm watching that one tonight. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Good do have you in. Greg CoSell is around the corner.

We're having so much fun. We really had, we haven't had to stretch much. I'm going to give Joy and I ourselves credit. These shows have been fun. I've had a blast doing it, these long interviews, and Greg CoSells are on the corner, but here's Joy with the news. No, no, no, no, turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

So the NFC South will be a little different this year with the addition of Tom Brady. And Drew Breeze admitted things just got a little tougher for the Saints in the division. The division just got a little bit better, didn't it? And in addition to that, you know, Teddy Bridgewater, who played, you know, so well for us with the Saints last year. When I got hurt, he's now the starting quarterback for the Carolina Pan. So our division has Teddy Bridgewater, Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and myself at the Saints. It's always been a very challenging division. It just kicked up a notch.

Yep. That's Ellen saying, wow. That is. So six games a year, Breeze is going to face Matt Ryan, Teddy Bridgewater, and Brady, and they don't make mistakes. They don't beat themselves. Now, they may not be as always talented as Cam and James, but Camman James could make mistakes.

it'll be the greatest, most efficient quarterback division ever. There's never been a division with four quarterbacks that good and that efficient, ever. We still haven't gotten the one of our researchers needs to do that time. He did it. He sent it to me last night. Oh, you got it? Yeah, it's the greatest quarterback division ever. Three quarterbacks over 50,000 yards. And there's an efficiency number that it's the best quarterback division of all time.

Wow, well, going forward to watching it this year. It's definitely going to be interesting. So the Bengals signed eight free agents from other teams this year. Six of them were in the playoffs last season. And head coach Zach Taylor is hoping their experience can give Cincinnati the boost that it needs. You know, when you get a guy fresh off of a playoff run, that's still very fresh in his mind of how he approached the season, how they attacked as a team. It certainly helps our culture when you had guys that have recently been playing for championships. And obviously, that's where we intend to be very quickly.

So we have no idea what Cincinnati is going to be this year. Oh, I do. Not good. Not good. Well, they sign, here are their free agent signings. From the Vikings, they signed Trey Waynes and McKenzie Alexander, the Texans, they got DJ Reader, the Saints, they signed Von Bell. They got Josh Bines from the Ravens and Lashon Sims from the Titans. All six were from playoff teams last year and are on defense. And they got Mike Thomas, who was on injured reserve during the Super Bowl run for the Rams.

And they got Xavier Sue Afilo from the Cowboys. And he also said A.J. Green is fully healthy and everything. everything has been positive. I just think the ASC North is going to look a lot different than it did last year. The Steelers are going to have Ben Rothesberger back, which, look, I have no idea what Ben Rathesberger is going to be when he comes back, but I'm assuming he's going to be an upgrade from Mason Rudolph and Duck Hodges. We already know what the Ravens are going to be.

And the Browns have a lot of talents, and it's a make-or-break year for Baker-Mayfield. So if they don't end up taking Joe Burrow with the number one overall pick and trading back and getting some more picks and maybe taking Justin Herbert or someone else, You know, they still have Andy Dallon as well. I'm holding out hope that the dolphins are going to move up and get Burrow, but I think we're all assuming Burrow is going to go number one overall there. It's just going to be a rough year for Cincinnati, just looking at the landscape of the AFC North.

Yep. No question. Finally, the NFL is using the upcoming draft to help the country during the pandemic. The league will host a three-day virtual draftathon to raise money for coronavirus relief efforts and pay tribute to health care workers and first responders, all proceeds will go towards following organizations, the Red Cross, all of us feeding America, Meals on Wheels of Salvation Army,

and the United Way. So fans and other supporters can donate through one central fund throughout three days, which will add to the $43 million that was already donated by the collective NFL family. So they will be doing a fundraiser during the 2020 draft, which I think is great. And I just want to say thanks to everybody

who has been donating money and time, and volunteering and sewing masks and donating masks and doing everything they can to help our neighbors right now, especially the medical care professionals who are working so hard. Oh, yeah. And empowering stuff. Joy with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lye News. 40 years NFL films, I really rely on him for personnel questions and the draft. He sends me stuff a year in advance, sometimes more. Greg CoSells joining us. First of all, I hear a lot about this.

Well, Bruce Ariens is a risk taker. He likes the deep ball. I'm not sure if Brady fits. You've watched the film. Does Brady fit Tampa's scheme with Bruce Ariens? Well, my guess is, Colin Bruce Ariens has a pretty full playbook that doesn't only have deep balls. And I think when you coach Tom Brady, I think it's similar to when Peyton Manning went to Denver. I think you mix and match what you do with what Tom Brady does.

So I don't view that as a problem at all. They'll be fine. And plus, Brady can still throw the ball down the field. You have to remember what the NFL game is. is guys don't drop back seven yards sit on their back foot and throw it 65 yards down the field vertical routes now are what we call scripted verticals which are not necessarily arm strained throws a post is not an arm strained throw a back shoulder fade is not an arm strained throw these are the throws that are now really vertical throws in today's NFL do you remember your evaluation of

jarratt stidham who's now a patriot coming out of auburn yeah i do just because i've been asked about it by quite a few people. And I remember feeling that he was a very gifted quarterback talent-wise, and I did not love the Auburn offense, but that was just my personal point of view. And I didn't think that his traits really had a chance to blossom in the context of that offense. But he reminded me of many Texas kids who they look very much the same, just the way they drop back and the way they throw.

But he's got a very nice arm, a smooth delivery. and we don't know what Belichick thinks of him, that's the thing. You know, think back and replace Stidham's name with Tom Brady, and who knows what Stidham is. Now, I'm not suggesting he's Tom Brady, but they may love him. Yeah. My NFL people are really cool on Justin Herbert. I like him more.

He's not great off script, but he's got a big arm. I do think he can move a little. We saw it in the Rose Bowl. I like him more than everybody else. else, but my people I trust. So the reason I'm not giddy over him is because my sourcing, they don't like him as much. What do

you think? Yeah, well, I'll tell you what the concerns are. I mean, obviously he's got the size, the arm strength, and the movement, and so he's got traits, and he's just a great-looking athlete. I got a chance to stand next to him at the Combine. He's just a great-looking kid. But he's one of those guys that's not, he

doesn't have a great sense of timing. He doesn't have a great sense of anticipation. He's what I would call a see-it, a throw at quarterback. He had a lot of completions at Oregon where the ball was late, and they were complete because it's college football. But then you have to think about that as you project and transition him to the

league. I thought he was inconsistent with his ball placement. He missed too many routine throws. He's not what I would call a ball distributor. He's more of a big play quarterback. Yes. Which is okay. But now you get into the variables that there's so many of those as to

how a quarterback early in his career does in the NFL, and you know that. There's coaching, there's scheme, there's players around him, there's the overall team. There's so many factors that come into play. Yeah. Couldn't he get better coaching in the NFL, or is all of it kind of innate you have it or you don't? Well, questions that I think you're asking is, can a quarterback who does not have a really defined sense of timing and anticipation, can you teach that? And I'm not sure you can. Maybe you can get a little better at it, but I don't think a guy like Justin Herbert is ever going to play like Drew Breeze.

I don't think that's going to happen. So you try to clean up certain things. You try to help them with your route concepts and your combinations to define the throw so he understands where to go with the football. But now you get into a big sort of dilemma, the difference between anticipation and predetermination. You try to predetermine a lot of throws for Herbert. Yeah. So the other night, a general manager on the East Coast calls me.

And he says, who's your most underrated player in the draft? And I said, okay, you're going to think I'm a homer. But I said, I think it's Michael Pittman, the receiver at USC. So you like him. I think he is the best USC player since Juju Smith-Schuster. His dad was tough. I think he is physical. As a true freshman at USC, he walked onto the campus at 19 years old and was a playmaker,

blocking punts. I think he's the steal of the draft, potentially late second, early third. Tell me, what do you see? What do you think of him? I think he's way, again, I can't speak to where people get drafted, and I don't do that because those become guesses. And I know people love that, but they're just guesses.

I actually, in my transition section, when I do my evaluation, I said he's one of the best receiving prospects in the draft class with an outstanding combination of traits, size, play speed, hands, competitiveness, run after catch. I don't think he's quite Mike Evans, but I don't think he's that far away from that. Evans is a more explosive player. Yes. But there's a competitive toughness to Pittman.

He's been a special teams player, and he's played that well, as you know, because you live out there. And when you combine that with his overall athleticism and receiving traits, I think you get a big time prospect. And I think he can work at all three levels of the defense. I really like him. Now, I'm going to ask you about a player that I think he'll be a good pro, but he is so unique. The LSU running back, he's not a burner. Every time I watch him, he gets four when it should be two, seven when it should be five. He doesn't run away from you, but nobody really catches him.

And he appears to be able to catch the ball. Really good receiver. What do you make of him as a pro prospect? Edward Halear is who you're talking about. I really, really like him as a prospect. First of all, he is sudden and explosive. He's not vertically explosive, you know, as far as straight-line speed, but he's sudden and explosive with lateral quickness and change of direction.

You know who kind of reminded me of? He kind of reminded me of Devonta Freeman. Small in height, but not small in the way he played. And he's over 205 pounds. I thought he had a great feel for setting up his block. and understanding defensive movement in reaction to how he moved. And boy, is he a good receiver. He ran a lot of pro-style routes in LSU's offense.

So I really like him as a prospect. And I think the receiving part is absolutely critical for him. By the way, people have said it's the best wide receiver class. So let's put that into context. Are there 15 guys who can walk into this league and start from this class? Start is a relative term because so many teams play. with three wide receivers. So I think there's a lot of guys that could be movement receivers,

whether they line up in the slot, perhaps. I think receivers are very dependent often on scheme. There's not, there's a lot of big receivers in this draft, Colin. And that's one thing I've really taken note up, and I'm very anxious to see how the league looks at big receivers. Because there's not 50 Julio Jones, there's not 20 D.K. Metcalfs, who are 6-4-228 and can run under a 4-4-4-4. four. So when you start getting the bigger receivers, you know, who are four, five, five guys,

that kind of thing, how will the league look at them? Like, I look at T. Higgins, so I really loved his tape. Climson. Yeah. He had a bad pro day. But keep one thing in mind, he ran a four, five, eight, I believe. Michael Thomas ran a four, five, seven. You know, Michael Thomas was a second round pick, and obviously he's a great receiver, but, you know, he ran a four, five, seven. No one got excited about that. So there's a lot of guys like that, and I'm really anxious to see how the league sees those guys. You know, we talk a lot about quarterbacks, obviously, and I've

said my comp for Burrow is Tony Romo. Is Burrow talented enough? We know he's talented when the supporting cast is great, LSU. But I thought Andrew Luck was, along with John Elway, the only two college quarterbacks I've seen.

I didn't even feel Peyton Manning was like this. They could just win, regardless of what the junk was around him. Does Burrow... Like we know, we both think he's a good prospect, right? But I never thought Baker Mayfield could overcome Cleveland's dysfunction. He's just not that talented. I don't think Sam Darnold, who I like is that talented.

Compare like Darnold and Burrow. Is he that kind of special? Well, then you have to decide what special means. I don't think he's as talented as Andrew Locke. I don't think he's as talented, let's say, is Carson Wentz, who was a number two pick in a draft. But I think Burrow has all the traits that you look for with the exception of higher level arm strength, and I think that's where a lot of people look at talent. You mentioned Justin Herbert earlier.

People look at Herbert and say he's really talented. Why? Because he can throw the ball with velocity and he can move. Those are the things they look at. They don't go into the nuance and the subtleties of playing the quarterback position, which I think Burrow has at a very high level. So is he super talented in terms of just dropping back in shorts and a T-shirt, and do you go wow when he throws the ball?

No, you don't. You don't do that with Tua either. You would do that with Herbert. You would do that with Jacob Eason. You would do that to a certain extent with Jordan Love. You're not going to do that with Burrow. But he's got a lot, maybe every other trait that you look for he has. You know, as a receiver at Oklahoma, I'm not saying he's not good, C.D. Lamb.

But I watched the Big 12, and good God, it's a pillow fight. There's all sorts of space. And everybody's like, oh, he's so great after the catch. Well, would he be against Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, would he be against Clemson? What do you make a him as a prospect? Yeah, I like him. I don't love him, and I know that a lot of people have him number one. I personally think Jerry Judy is clearly the number one.

So do I. So do I. You know, there were times that I thought Lamb looked great. There were times his body control and ball tracking ability were elite. There were other times I didn't think it was. He's a smooth guy. I don't think he's sudden or explosive that you'd ideally like to see. I know some people have compared him to DeAndre Hopkins.

I personally don't see that. Maybe he becomes that as he develops. I saw him more as kind of a movement receiver right now, a Z receiver. The Z receiver lines up off the ball and he can go in motion. Yes. Maybe a slot receiver as well. You know, I think that he had spectacular individual plays where he showed great run after catch, but I don't necessarily saw him as a monster.

run-after-catch guy. So I like him, but I didn't necessarily love him. Of all the offensive line prospects, there's some very, very good tackles. Any of those tackles that worry you? Of the main guys? Yeah, first round guys. Austin Jackson worries me. He's not strong enough. Yeah, I would agree with that, but he's super athletic. And you know the program, well, I think he'll need some work. I think he'll need, you know, you would think that a school like USC has a really good weight room and he could, you know, work on that, but I think he needs a weight room in the NFL, but I think that when you look at the movement ability, you go, wow, that's pretty darn good.

I'm really anxious to see Tristan Wirth's. His measurables at the Combine were great, but I don't think he plays tackle as athletic as he tested. I think he's more of a coiled efficiency kind of player, and then I wonder if some teams will look at him the way they looked at Brandon Sheriff coming out of Iowa and see him as a guard. I don't know that, but that's very possible. Yeah, he looks like he's a guy that loves the weight room. Yeah, and I think he was a champion high school wrestler.

He was. He's a coiled guy. There's a coiled efficiency to his play. He doesn't play athletically. He plays more with a kind of efficiency to it. He's a really good player. I'm just, I don't know. He could be a guard.

All right. Not the last time we talked to Greg Kosell, who is isolating, but the good news for him, he does that all the time and watch his film. and so his isolation is way more fun than a lot of more isolation. Greg, good talking to you. Thanks, Colin. Stay well. All right. Coming up next, the draft is just a couple of weeks away. And coming up next, I'm going to predict the over-under-draft spots for the top prospects.

Will they go higher or lower based on what I hear and what I think? That's coming up, The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. On Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the I-Hard Radio, Tonight, we live one of the greatest comebacks in NFL history. Michael Vic and the Eagles, Eli Manning and the Giants, The Miracle at the New Meadowlands, tonight at 8 Eastern on FS1 and the Fox Sports app. How are those NFL games doing, by the way, ratings-wise, when networks are putting them up?

I imagine they get over a million viewers. I'd be shocked if they don't. Get your free credit scorecard today, even if you're not a Discover customer, include your FICA credit score. Check your score. It won't hurt your credit. Go to discover.com slash credit scorecard. limitations apply.

Best for last time. So we're going to take, there's an over under by Fox bet. They give you the over under. So let's say, we'll explain it as we go, but I'll predict if he will get drafted, the player under the number. That means he's going to go higher than Fox bet says or over. So you can bet where guys are going to get drafted right now. I'll give you my over under.

Joy, you're ready to go? Let's do it. Let's start with Joe Burrow, over or under pick one. He's going to go under because he's going to go number one to Cincinnati. They need a quarterback. He's an Ohio kid. He is by most accounts the highest rated quarterback in the draft. So that's the easiest one.

Joe Burrell, if you bet it, under one and a half. Chase Young over pick, over under pick two and a half. I do think the Redskins would move this joy. I'm going to go under because I think they'll take him. But they've already got a very good defensive line. And they're on a rebuild with Ron Rivera. Now, he is a defensive coach and would love to get the best, easily the best pass rusher in the draft. He set an all-time Ohio state record with 16 and a half sacks.

But there's other pass rushers. They have lots of need and their D-lines already good. But my guess is under they'll 70-30 pick Chase Young at number two. I agree. Tua Tunga Vailoa, over or under pick three and a half. I'll go over because I think Miami is the leader in the clubhouse to take him because they're not going to be able to get Joe Burrow. And I think he'll go five to Miami.

There are injury concerns, but they've got 13 picks. They can take another quarterback, frankly, in this draft. They could go in the fourth round and take another quarterback. So I say two, it goes under. Justin Herbert, over or under pick five and a half. Over. I don't think Miami's going to take him, and I think the Chargers take him at six.

You know, remember this. There's only three teams we know need a quarterback. for sure in the first round. And that is Sinci, Miami and the Chargers. So he's going to go at least sixth. Isaiah Simmons over or under pick six and a half. I think he's going to be a steal. I think he's going to go in the teens and I'll say over six and a half

because the New York Giants, that's who I would pick. If I'm the New York Giants who have two young defensive tackles, Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence, I like. They're not good at. linebacker. This guy is a he's just a playmaker. He really can do anything. I would take him if I was the Giants, but the Giants

reportedly are going to go tackle at four. So I think he ends up falling because teams after that are going to need quarterbacks, Miami and the Chargers. So somebody's going to get a steal at about 11 or 12 with Isaiah Simmons. How about Jerry Judy over under pick 12 and a half? I think

he's going to go under. I think he is easily the best receiver in this draft. The Jets have the number 11 pick, and if the two tackles they like are gone, I think the Jets take him because they need a receiver. They lost Robbie Anderson. Also, the Raiders lost Antonio Brown, and they have the number 12 pick, and Gruden loves speedy receivers.

So either the Jets or the Raiders, my guess, take him in 11 and 12. I'd take the under. How about C.D. Lamb over under pick 12 and a half? I think it's going to be over. I mean, he's going to be a nice NFL player. Greg Cosell just called him a Z or a slot receiver. I think some of his great highlights is Big 12 defenses. I think it's an incredibly rich wide receiver draft.

Can I get 90% of C.D. Lamb in the second round? I think I can. I don't think there's another Jerry Judy. I think he's very special. After that, I think there's another 10 receivers that are really, really good, and he's one of them. So I'll take the over. Henry Ruggs the third over under pick 14 and a half. Okay, he's the guy that's doing all these amazing dunks.

I think somebody's going to fall in love with his speed, like the Raiders. I think he gets picked before C.D. Lamb, because I think he is such a jet engine. He is so fast. He was the number one receiver out of high school. People fall in love and talk themselves into speed. I think he is the number two wide receiver taken. I say under. Jordan Love over or under pick 17 and a half. My guess is under. So do the Chargers like him?

Because the Chargers like Tyrod Taylor, they may think he has a huge upside and can learn from Tyrod they have the six pick. Jacksonville's got the number nine pick and he's a little bit loose like Gardner Minshew. Do you let him develop for a year? The Raiders have the 12th pick. I think if he gets down to the 15 and 16 and 17, Joy. I think maybe a New England with 13 draft picks or a Minnesota that's got 12 draft picks. I think a Minnesota or a New England, if he gets down close to them where they only have to give up maybe one or two picks, go with Jordan Love.

Jordan, nobody's going to move up to get him at eight. But if he drops to 15, 16, you watch a good team. A Green Bay, a Minnesota, New England with a lot of picks, move up to get him. Good stuff. Joy, thank you so much for today. Coach K will put him on our podcast. Fun stuff today, right? It was fun. Show moved. He was great. Show was awesome. All right. We'll see you Friday tomorrow in the herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story. behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source,

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