The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Unbreakable Episode 11 - Michael Phelps

Episode Date: November 16, 2022

Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental health podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer.  On today's episode, 23-Time Olympic Gold Medalist Michael Phelps joins Jay for powerful conversation on life. Michael addresses his mental health challenges including nearly taking his life, what he learned from it, and so much more. IT’S A MUST LISTEN!! Follow, rate & review Unbreakable with Jay Glazer here!https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unbreakable-with-jay-glazer/id1641935224   #fsr #oddcouple #herdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun, thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes.

Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tauntons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith ruling. of two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me.

84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year.

I don't think there's a more important year for black. people listen to look back at it on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this is unbreakable with j glazer a mental health podcast helping you out of the gray and into the blue now here's j glazer welcome into unbreakable a mental health podcast with j glazer and listen my guest here i've been friends with him for a long time But I don't have too many guests or a one of one. And I say one of one. He is the most successful and most decorated Olympian in the history of the Olympics.

I mean, 28 medals still holds the all-time record for most gold medals. But he is my brother in the gray and the blue. And, you know, what I thought, and for people out here, the first time here, what I thought when I was going through my battles with mental health, depression, anxiety, when I got to the top, it would be all rainbows and unicorns. And that just wasn't the case. So I said, you know what, I want to turn to my brother here, the one and only Michael Phelps, who, again, the only similarities between us is that we battle the same thing, but we use it to overcome, you know, what goes on between our ears, but also to do greater things. So, man, I'm so honored to have the one and only Michael Phelps here.

How are you, brother? Cheers, cheers, good. Yeah, just another day, right? You know, as you were saying, it's another day of us fighting or going through the battle. that we go through. And, yeah, you said it perfect, right? There are days that, yeah, we feel like we're on top of the world. And there are days we feel the worst we've ever felt. So how do we battle? How do we maneuver through those things? And for me, lately, as you know, I've been struggling with the loss of my father. And, and yeah, it's been ups and downs. But, you know,

the one thing I've tried to do is stay into my routine. You know, for me, workout is something that makes me me it's a part of my self-care you know i just got out of old tub too so yep yeah i do that too yeah you know so there there are certain things that i have to continue to do to make this as best as it as it can be so between your ears so let me let me ask you this and there's so many ways you and i can go and first of all you just talked about your dad and it's cool the bond we have now that we're so open about this because when your dad passed you've reached out to me and i'm always trying to tell people reach out to your teammates reach out to people that get you or don't get you, everybody wants to help you.

So I was, man, I was so honored that you felt safe enough to come and reach out to me that day. That was, that was amazing, brother. And I'm thankful. And, you know, some of the words that you showed with me that day, I still go back to a lot. And, yeah, I've actually screenshot that message just, you know, just so. I never forget because, you know, there are a few moments that, yeah, it just, you know, it helps you just process things.

And, you know, I think that was the coolest thing in life. Like, yeah, there was, you know, we had gone back and forth and played phone tag here and there. I was like, shit, I don't know who would talk to. I don't know who to reach out to. And I just snapped. I was like, Jay, I'm a text Jay. And yeah, so I'm thankful you were there. And, and again, the advice and the wisdom you gave me, I'm thankful for.

Man, I got goosebumps, man, just saying that. It's cool because it's, we need a team and you need to be of service, you know. So to be there for your brother or anybody that reaches out and we're going through this. So I want to ask you this. And that starts being of service, just being there for anybody. But I want to ask you this. Is yours an everyday battle? Like for me, it's hard for me to get out of bed every single day of my life.

And this isn't a new thing. Yeah. This has been around for a while. Is it that way for you? There are months or weeks where, yeah, it's like that. I guess I call it seasonal depression. You know, there's a, there's a, like a six-week stretch from basically like second, third week in October through the middle of November. So I'm in it.

I've had some pretty large things happen to me in my life. So traumas that you went through. Broken bones, kind of a bunch of different things. So, yeah. So I just know this is a moment where I need to make sure I'm aware and keeping in touch. with everything that's going on. You know, if my body's telling me a certain thing, listen to it, don't stuff it down. When did you realize you were, listen, I like to say different?

Because I let's say different is good. Like, motherfucker, I'm different. Yeah, for sure. When did you realize you were different? I mean, like, I'm thinking like career-wise, like, I'm going back to 11 when my coach said that you could make the Olympic team in four years. And I was like, I don't know if that's just him talking shit or, you know, if him actually believe in it, right?

So, but as a kid at that point, I was like, yeah, cool, I'm all in. let's go. Sure. Maybe the Olympics in 15, no problem. Right? And then sure enough, four years later, bang, it happens. You know what I'm talking about? So it's like, I was like, all right, maybe this guy is not crazy.

Right. Or maybe, yeah, I am different. But also at the same time, like, I felt that I was normal, you know, because I was doing something that I loved. Bro, you're not fucking normal. You know that, right? Oh, I know that. Okay.

You know what I was thinking today. I want to make sure that. I was thinking about it today a little bit, like, um, I was thinking, like, trying to win eight gold medals. Like, I was trying to do something that no one had ever done before, right? There was no blueprint, right? Like, if I want to try to change the time on my phone or, like, the text on my phone, like, if I don't know how to do it, I can look that up.

Right. There's no, there's no book that says, here, this is how you win eight gold medals, right? I had to, like, basically figured out trial and error. Okay. And I think that was, that's make me, like, that makes me who I am. The process of things makes me who I am. All right. So now, when did you realize you were different mental health-wise?

Like, when did you first realize you suffered from the gray? That I accepted from it? Yeah, yeah. I probably accepted from it in, like, 2014. But when did you know it? Like, did you always know it? Yeah, that was a few times, a few instances through my mental health journey, right? Like, that was a few pretty big public depression spells that I had gone through.

And I was like, oh shit, maybe I need to try to figure this thing out. Maybe I need to try to not tame it, but learn it, right? Figure out why I am how I am, right? Because it's like, it's not going to change, you know, like, like you said it, right? Like, you wake up every day and it's a struggle, you know, like, shit, like for me, like, my depression, I can't snap my fingers and have it just go away. I can't just snap my fingers and have my anxiety go away, right? So it's like, how do I maintain it? You know, how do I just be me and be able to?

okay with being who I am. But you came out early. Yeah. Earlier than most to talk about it. That's pretty fucking courageous. I just didn't care, honestly. You didn't, huh? No, I was just like, kind of just sick and tired of feeling how I was.

Yeah, I was still able to go and swim and train, but I think I used that anger and that frustration in the pool. You know, like, I kind of think I helped, like, that helped me become who I was, but maybe not in the healthy way. but then like in the outside world, I didn't know how to deal with it. So I think in 14, like, that's where I was just, after my second DUI, I was like, okay, I got to figure something out. Like what's going on?

Why am I acting out? You know, why am I screaming for help? And in reality, that's what it was, right? I didn't know how to ask for help. So at that point, I was just like, yeah, like, it is what it is. This is who I am. And here you go. But like, thinking back to that interview and it's still crazy because it was Tim Layden who

did the piece. And I don't know the question that he. asked me that made me just blah and open up. We were sitting there doing like the cover story for the Olympics going into, you know, the 2016 games and I just opened up. And ever since that point forward, I was just like, yeah, here you go. You know, yeah, like today I feel like a piece of shit. Today I want to be, you know, six feet underground.

Today I don't want to do anything. Today I don't want anybody to talk to me, right? I'm just in one of those moods. And no, like sometimes a hug won't help. You know, sometimes it's me just taking time by myself, taking that peace and quiet, right? So it just depends, you know, like, it's that cycle. Like, I used the term riding the roller coaster. Like, if I send the roller coaster emoji, I'm just all over the place.

Okay. I think I'm trying to figure you out, too, when they come in. But you just said it too, and people don't understand it go, man, I get us all the time. How could you want to be six feet under? I mean, look at you. You're the TV Hall of fan. You've done this and ballers and fighting. football, an NFL, on Fox.

I'm like, yeah, but, you know, like my life is great, but between my ears sucks. We're human. Right. And people don't understand it, but people are going to look at you and go, Michael Phelps, how could you want to feel six feet underground? Yeah. So what? Do you know what led to your pain?

I think I'm learning more about it. I think for me, like, there's a lot of compartmentalization from, you know, decades. A lot of it, and to be honest, was, you know, not having a dad. You know, like my parents divorced very young and, and it's not not having a dad. My dad's dad also passed when he was very young. So he didn't have a dad, right? So he didn't really understand how to fully be there and support a child and be there when he needs to, right?

And look, I can't blame him. But, you know, like for me, like I use that as motivation now every day for my kids, right? So it's trying to change that cycle, you know? And I think part of it is, is obviously it's learning. It's going through the process. And for me, I think in 2014, I was able to have a really good conversation where I got a lot of stuff off my chest. And we were able to talk a lot and just uncover a lot of the stuff that we probably were both holding on to for decades. So I think that was really cool and really special.

But I think it's like now it's probably it's just learning how I was raised and understanding it and processing it. But it's also not pointing blame too. You know, like we were raised, how we were raised. And it is what it is. You know, our parents did the best that they could. You know, if we want change, then we have to change. And I'd like to see change in a mental health front. So for me, I look at it in a different way than my parents ever did than they probably ever could process.

It's funny, I had dinner at my folks. I don't see them a lot. My mother tells me earlier this year, oh, you know, I've suffered from anxiety my whole life. And so did your grandma. I'm like, how about a heads up here? Like, it's the first time I'm hearing about this. I'm 52. I'm not.

Thanks a lot now. I mean, God, because for me, it's always, I don't know any way to not feel this way. Like my entire life as a little kid, my earliest childhood memory, I was brought upstairs, kicking and screaming and crying and usually punished. And man, I just felt like, like you said, like the universe, the universe hates me. Like the world's going to come crashing that around me. And that pain for people who don't suffer from it, it fucking sucks. It's a, for me, it's a visceral physical reaction. Yeah.

When you get your attacks, do you feel it physically also? At times, I think it just depends where my head is. Like where? Mine's kind of specific. I get mine on the left side of my gut, behind my ribgays, like having a heart attack and my joints. No. There are times I think like it's more of just like I want to crawl in a ball.

Okay. I just want to just like I don't know if it's like physical pain. Like I think there were times where like I, like there was once where I was in. such a dark phase and like I I haven't talked about this much but I actually took like a golf cleat and hit myself in the head like I was so pissed off and this is like this is probably like six, seven years ago and as soon as I did that I was like okay I need to figure something out right like my life has gotten to this point and it wasn't like a cleat cleat like wasn't like metal cleats but like it didn't feel good but also like looking back at it now like I can laugh like I can laugh about

it because like you know like I think it's the that's a lot of pain though to be in brother sure for sure um but I think like and and the biggest thing and and you know going back to like my parents like I don't oh here you go the horses that's a small little horse we were a great name um like going back to my parents like it's the acceptance right like I love my parents to death I always will but it's the acceptance of these things these moments these pains these traumas right like you know like if I like I don't want to sit and stuff stuff, stuff, stuff, because I'm not going to be able to grow and learn from those experiences and then try to teach my kids how to deal with those things, right? So I think that is the hardest part for me.

And I think, like, you know, thinking back, like that golf cleat, like, I can think back to certain times like that. And I can always know kind of the pain that I was going through, but I can also look at the transformation, right? You know, I think for me, like, I can go back to what I was feeling when I was at the Meadows where, yeah, almost every day I didn't want to be alive and I hated myself and I couldn't look at myself in the mirror because I saw a swimmer and that was it. You know, now I got to the point or I'm at the point now where, yeah, I can see this kid with a man bun and, you know, like, whatever. Like, I can see this, I can see me for who I am.

I can see myself for a human being. And I think that is something that, you know, because of the growth, because of the acceptance, because of the things that I've gone through, like, that's why I am how I am. And like, I love it this way. Right? Like, you know, like I think back to, you know, points where I was afraid to even open up and talk about it. Right. You know, I think that was the craziest thing because now I'm to the point, I'm like, whoa, like, yeah, I'm having a bad day. I'm like, honey, yep. One of those days, like, just giving you a heads up.

Like, could be a little cuckoo today. Like, could be off. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball. basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be.

Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-taped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed cracks. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Now you're finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Keir Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now.

You know, you just revealed that. I've never revealed this. But when I have those self-loathing moments, I punch myself in the head. Yeah. I've done that. I've done that. And it's like, man, you're just so self-loathing. And that's it.

So I appreciate you sharing that with me. And then figure I got to share that with you. And I still do it. And I'm like, because I also go, you know what? I know I can do a lot of damage with these hands. Yeah, for sure. Others, I'd rather do it to me than somebody else. They also look like I deserve it.

Have time. And we don't deserve. We fucking don't deserve it. It sucks that we go that down that. path. Yeah. Like I'll ask like in those times like what have you found as outlets that help you, right? Like besides that, like have you tried anything else? You know, like for me, like I always go to working out. You know, like you have to get in there. Like, you know, like you've hit me mothful times. I'm like, yeah, Jim, like I'll hit you right after I'm done. But like, like,

what are like what are other things, you know, like is it meditation? Is it right in town? You know, I started. So I went to Thailand this offseason for 35 days. I told you about that, right? And A, they made me really. And I've sent you. some of these notes, they made me really heal that little kid in me. Yeah. I love you said that. Yes. Right.

That little, you know, holding a little Jason's hand, right? But so now every day, before I ever look at my phone, I now get up, I do breathwork for for for 10 minutes, right? I meditate for five of things I'm grateful for. Then I write down 10 things I'm grateful for from the previous day that made me happy. And it's hard sometimes for a lot of them. But you know what? I'll make it.

It could be something materialistic. be just something somebody said. It could be a memory I had, whatever it is. So I do all that, and then I'll get a 10-minute work at it in before I ever look at my phone. And that usually gets me, it'll calm me down. It's a better way for me to start today than to start today thinking that the universe is ending and the universe hates me and my sky is falling. So do you look back at those things ever? Got it right down? All the time. So originally it was 100. They told me to do 100, a gratitude list of 100 things I'm grateful for.

for my whole life. And brother, you think it'd be so easy for somebody like me or somebody like you. Holy fuck was that hard. Because you don't feel like you deserve any of it. So you don't want to write it down because you're almost like either you're jinks and yourself or you feel shittier about yourself. Oh, now you're just bragging. Like, fuck, it's terrible.

But then once I did it, it was like God in the universe. Oh, my son says he loves me. And my son said this to me one time. My dog gives me kisses. And when I first adopted my dog, I got the coolest little rescue pit. and like her first day and, you know, buying houses and being on Fox NFL Sunday and my old Fox and Apple Sunday crew and walking fighters down to a cage for championship fights and fuck, there's a it could be a pair of shoes, whatever it was, but I got 100.

So I was reading that whole hundred list every single morning. And now I've expanded it where every day I write an extra 10. And then I usually still go back to that 100. When I'm down, when the roommates of my head are not playing nicely together, I'll go back to that original 100 and read that. Yeah, that's like the one thing for me, like I, like, whenever I have, like, I call out the feedback loop from hell. Like that, like, the shit up here just keeps going and going and spinning and spinning and spinning.

And like, I get to that point where, like, I feel like I'm going to blow. It's like, how do I get myself out of that moment, right? So I always have like a hundred, like, not a hundred, but it's like, I have like 10 different journals or like little notepad sitting here. And some of them are the bad days. Some of them are good days. Some of them do lists, like all this stuff. Right.

I am in that moment where I'm spinning. I try to go back and I look or I just get it all out, right? Because like during those good days, like you have so many good thoughts. You feel like you're on top of the world. Nothing can get in your way. But then it's like, like for me, I can turn like that. Okay. And if I turn this goes on.

So then it's like, okay, how do I get back to that living in the neutral, living in the moment? And it's like I go back to all the notes that I have and just the memories, right? because and I feel like it's the same thing you're doing by that, but like by what you just said. Right. It's like those thoughts and memories are there probably for me, it's like little things that trigger something. And it's like, how do I control that? And the only way I can control it is either getting it out or like for me is looking at something from the past. Because I want to calm myself down.

Right. So I ask just because in like those moments where, you know, we're like where we are hitting ourselves, like how can we stop that? You know, like my wife says to me, it's just like all the time. So you can't do that. I'm like, I know I can't do that. Right. Like, no shit. Like, I know I keep doing that.

Like, I want to be able to stop that. But, you know, like, for me, it's how do I get to that point where I do stop it and I can control it and I can help myself? Isn't it cool that we could talk about these things so openly now? That's why I'm proud of you talking about it. I'm learning to be proud of me talking about it. And again, I'm still a work in progress. No one that we could change this world. You know, we could.

100%. I had this thing the other day. It must have been like 2,500 people or something. and the guy I was moderating with, he's like, hold your phone up in the air if you know somebody or you're going through some kind of mental health struggle. 75% of the room had the phones up. And they said, now keep your phone in the air if you've gone through suicidal ideation. 70, 75% of people had their hand up in the air.

I was floored. Because I think, well, I think for a number of reasons, I think number one, because I, I was so happy that people were honest and open. Yeah. Because of what we just talked about, right? Like, yeah, it's hard as hell to open up and talk about it. But once you do open up, like, that awareness is so powerful. So, like, for me, I was just, I was happy inside.

Because at the chance, like, we have an opportunity to potentially save a life, right? Yes. And you don't have to suffer in silence. And number two, I was like, oh, my God, the world has changed. Right. Like, you know, like, people are okay. not being okay. You know, like five years ago, like we never would have thought or nobody would have lifted

that mat up underneath or up, up from the problems that we're, we're hiding underneath of them and talking about them. So it's like all of these things, I feel like it's just so powerful. And, yeah, we're making great progress, but there's so much more. Yeah, because it's too reactive. We're not proactive enough. Like, people need to do what you and I are doing for our mental health before the sky's fall.

Like even if they don't think they have an issue, they need to start doing this. Or just when times are good, get a routine. Look, mental health, they'll go to a therapist after it's too late, right? So you don't only try, you don't only swim when your time is up. You do it all the fucking time. All the time. Or I love it. They're like, no, we can't get a therapy appointment for six weeks.

And like six weeks comes up and like, oh, no, I don't need to go anymore. I'm fine. Actually, you're not. You're not fine. I have one thing for fine. It's freaked out, insecure, neurotic, and emotional. and you can only be fine on Mondays. I like that.

Holy shit, I like that a lot. We used to say that. My coach, my mom and I used to always say that back in the day. You just said something also like, man, I can't get a therapy appointment for six weeks. That is a problem. It's a huge problem. But what we can do is what you did recently is like, are you struggling? You reached out to me.

Like there are, we can be each other's therapists and lean on each other. And it gets this, like, I don't know about you, man, but every time I've opened up this somebody. And my friends are the baddest motherfuckers in the planet. You know they are. Yeah. The most macho people of all time is it has just gotten us closer together. Nobody's called me a wist.

Nobody's told me to suck it up. Nobody said, oh, stop, Jay. Man, your life is too great. It's just gotten us closer together. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators,

and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do a little kill. Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade. of my own experience in the middle health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross. Because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, I Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. 100%. Like, there are few people that honestly, like, I've always respected, but I never thought I'd be as close as I, because of that, right? Like, I feel like there are a few random people in my life that I've become friends with

who just send a random text. And I look down, I'm like, oh, hey, what's up, dude? You know, like, always put the smile on my face or like, you know, always like, I feel safe and comfortable with. So I feel like that's something that's so special. Yes, building that brotherhood, building that trust, that bond. It's hard to put into words, but it's cool. Here's another thing I do, by the way.

I forgot when I am struggling, I will do what you did. reach out to four my, my boys and say, I'm struggling today. I need some help. But the same day, I'll reach out to four other people and just check up on them. Just like you were saying, like, oh, random text, because that's me being of service to somebody else. And that also helps me cut through the gray. I don't want to forget that. Oh, 100%. And I feel like that's, that's so true because it's like what you do, you get back 10 times, right? You know, like, And that right then, like you reaching out, like you're opening up, like you're becoming vulnerable, like being a friend to somebody else that potentially is going to the same thing, you know. So I feel like that's so, that's awesome.

A couple weeks ago I had on Andrew Whitworth, the captain of the Rams, right? You know, looks like me except eight feet taller. So extremely sexy. But man, I'm with him in the car after they win the Super Bowl. And he opened up about this on this podcast. And he was in the fucking tank. He just, it's the greatest moment of his career. He wins it all.

He's the oldest person to ever start a tackle in the history of the NFL, much less than being a captain in the Super Bowl game. And he's in the front seat of the car with his head in his hands, and he is in the tank. And I am trying to boost him up saying, dude, he's like, I just, I don't deserve it. I'm not worthy of this. When you win your gold medals, are you able to celebrate yourself?

I just heard you already grown. Are you able to celebrate yourself? or do you go through something similar? It's hard because, like, you know, I think once I win one, I had to be able to, like, in one ear out the other, right? Because there was six or seven more that I was trying to swim or win that week. At the end of the week, it's hard to sit still because I'm on a whirlwind tour, right? Like that first, like, week, two weeks, you're jumping all over the place doing different shows.

But I think after that, it's kind of like what's next? who am I? What's my identity? And I think that's the scary part, right? Because I think you, you work so hard for, you know, for me anyway, I feel like I work so hard to get to that point. And at the snap of your fingers, it's gone. It's done. It's finished. It's not gone. You did it. Yeah. That's the problem. That's the problems we have, right? Yeah. Like, I guess like, but I never, I never sat and celebrated. Like, I never, I guess I never could. I remember, I'll never forget, you know, when I won my first one back in 2004, the very first day of the Olympics, the 4.00m., I went 408, and I win, and I, you know, have the medal, share it with my mom through a chain link fence. And she's like, oh, yeah, it's so awesome. I'm like, yeah, we did it. And my coach is like, hey, we got to warm down. We got another race tomorrow. I'm like, oh, great, like, cool. I'll, like, shove it in my bag. All right, cool. Time to go to the next one. Like, that's basically what it was. My career, I would say I've got. gotten through 2008.

I've been able to process everything to that point. 2012 for me is one of the most challenging Olympics of my life because I wasn't happy with the results, but again, I got the results that I deserved. So it's hard for me to watch those races because I literally was off by that. But then again, if I don't do that, then I don't come back for 16. So it's just trying to process all of that stuff. But yeah, it's, I've never been able to celebrate. To this day, have you since been able to sit back and go, oh, man, what do you mean?

No. Well, dude, you need to. You need to. You deserve to. More than anything, you deserve to. You put that work in. You spilled that sweat. You deserve to.

That's something you've got to work on is being able to love yourself up, something that, again, it's exactly the same thing. talking about with wit. Like, we deserve to love ourselves up. We do something that is great. Yeah, like I'm not saying I'm not proud. I'm not happy of the accomplishments. But, I mean, I feel like, like, also, like,

I'm somebody who is so detail-oriented. So it's hard for me to sit and try to really process every single moment and memory like I want to. I'm in the process of just finishing a book. I just got the second. Is it called Unbreakable? It's not. Asshole. I just got the second manuscript.

We ripped up the first one and went back and kind of reprogrammed everything into the right spot. So I'm finishing that and hopefully that's out soon. Oh, you're finishing your own book. I think you mean you were reading a book. That's how I was like, you asshole and I read my book. Yeah, no, I'm finished my one. Yeah, yeah. Good for you.

I'm super pumped about it. And I think that's something that will help me process some of it too, right? being able to read it and see it all on paper. I think living it through the pandemic was challenging emotionally. But I think it was also really cool because I was able to learn and grow through those emotions that I went through. So I want to get back to this. You get a gold medal. Yep.

We see you really, really happy out there going nuts. But you're not that happy on the inside? Is that for show? I can't be because I have to be able to control the emotions and really everything. my physical, mental, everything while being through those next few days because I can't, I don't, well, I don't want to say I can't, but I shouldn't really kind of pour too many emotions into one event because then I'm draining myself for the whole entire week. So when I won eight gold medals in 2008, that process started back in 2002 when I was trying to learn how to adapt to swimming that many races and clear my lactic acid and swim, down and eat enough and sleep enough and do all and stretch enough and make sure I'm I'm doing all the small details. So after I win a gold medal, what I would do is typically I get off of the award stand.

It depends if I had another race or not. If I was done for the night, I would typically just get probably get back in and clear my lactic acid. So we'd prick our ear, take a blood sample. My lactic acid would be below, anything below 3.0 and I'm good. So I would just swim. I keep my heart rate at about 120 and I would just swim comfortably up and down, up and down, up and down until my lactic acid cleared. Once it was cleared, I'd hop out of the pool. I'd hop on the massage table and get a massage. Once I'm done the massage, I get a dinner that they have pre-made.

Typically, it's like pasta, you know, some kind of carb, a little bit of protein. I jump into a cold bath. I'm eating while I'm in the cold bath. I get out of the cold tub, put all my clothes on, get on the bus. still eating. If I'm still hungry, go into the dining hall and get food. By that point, I need to get into bed because I swim the next morning. Right, right. Okay, but all those emotions. The day after you win eight fucking gold medals, are you able to sit and go, oh my God, I did this? Yeah, but I still had to come on and do all the interviews with y'all.

Hey, I'm in football. Don't say you all. But were you able to, was there, so still, there's never a moment, even when you're doing the interviews where you're able to... I mean, I put some steam off, sure. And love yourself up for it. I mean, love yourself up. Really? Okay, since then, since your career's ended. We ran into you in Vegas with Sean McVeigh, right?

And McVeigh was like, dude, you're one of one. I'm like, yes, he's one of one. Are you able to appreciate that? I love that conversation. Yeah, I mean, and honestly, you know, and yeah, until somebody breaks my records, yeah, I guess I'm one of one. Yes. You know?

No, no. There's no guessing here. You're one of one, dude. I guess the one thing that is crazy, like, thinking about it now, I've only looked at the metals all at once less than a handful of times. Why? I guess the easiest way of saying is I don't want them to define who I am as a human, right? Like, that's a chapter of who I am and what I'm, you know, what I feel like I am doing or what I'm supposed to do, right? like for me like that gave me the platform to be able to have what I have today right you know

to be able to stand up and and to allow us to scream about mental health right look yes is it was it amazing what I did of course like I'm literally looking at a finish right now above my desk where I want to race by a hundredth of a second right a hundredth of a second you know what I'm saying like yeah without question like there have been a few times I'm like shit like that was awesome like there's cool spots you know like I had some great great memories some amazing amazing things, but I think as a whole, no, like when, like, when somebody reads a bio and they're like, 23 time gold medalists, 28 time Olympic medalist, 39 time world record holder. I'm like, what? Like, is this a dream? Like, I feel like it is a dream because like, this is what I dream. I wanted to do something that no one else had ever done. And I'm living a fucking dream come true. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the reality of it. So yeah, like, there are some things that really hard to process. And, and, yeah, there are some things that I look and I look and I look and. I'm like, wow, like this is incredible. For me, now it's the mental health.

That story I shared with me about the cell phones. That story for me, I will never forget. And I'll never forget how I felt. You know, I'll never forget sitting next to a guy on an airplane. This guy is probably like mid-60s, white hair dude. And he was like, so you're telling me you just talk about mental health and you think that's going to help? And he thinks he goes, that's a sign of weakness.

And I was like, and I literally was like, I was like, All right. I was like, okay, bro. Like, we're on an airplane. I like, take headphones out. I'm like, all right, now we're getting serious. Like, I wanted to go Tyson on him. Right, right.

How's it called Michael Phelps aside of weakness? Are you shitting me? Oh, I almost went nuts. And I was like, dude, I was like, okay, so I basically listed like 10 different things. I was like, do you or you're a family struggle from PTSD, you know, depression, anxiety, lo, lo, lo, lo, lo, blah. He goes, no. And I go, and how in the, do you have any right saying exactly what you just said to me?

And he goes, I've struck a nerve. And I said, yes, you have. I said, you've triggered something, sir. And I said, I'm going to finish this conversation right now. Wow. Because I didn't know, honestly, at that moment, like, I was so raged. I was so angered inside. I didn't know what to do.

And the only thing I could do is I knew I had to be as polite as I possibly could to shut the conversation down and get out. But it's like stuff like that, that's the thing that makes me. happy with the fights that I'm doing every single day, whether it's for me, whether it's for you, whether it's for somebody else, right? Because we're saving a life. I want you to go back a second here, because we can have both. I want you to go back and say maybe the, okay, you don't want to say the gold medals define you, okay? But maybe you look at the gold medals and go, the work that put in for those, that defines me. That's who the fuck I am. For sure. Yeah. You outworked the world. You didn't just turn to work.

You outwork the world. There was a question. There's a question somebody gave me once. A reporter, European reporter, goes, do you ever feel bad for winning all those medals? I started laughing my ass off. I was like, excuse me? And he goes, do you feel bad for the other people? And I go, no.

I go, they could have worked hard too. That's exactly right. You don't know bad. How question is that? Like, I earned those things, right? Yeah, right. There was a day. So then that could live.

You lift you up. Yes. Sure. For me, like I look back and I'll look and say, I went six straight years without missing a single day. Did any other person ever do that? No. So I gave myself a better chance to have greater success with the things that I did that nobody else, nobody else were willing to do. So no, I don't feel bad for winning all those medals. Maybe you could look at the medals more, though, and then think of that, right? Hey, I'm proud of myself because I put in more work than you. anybody else, not by a little, but by a lot. And not only that, Michael, you put in the work when nobody else was watching. That's what true greatness is, right? Yeah, that Under Armour commercial I did, I guess back in 16, yeah, it's what you do behind the scenes in the dark that brings you to the light, right? It's the things that you do when you don't want to do them, right? That brings you into being who you are, right?

That's what the greats do. Like, that's the difference between being great and being good. You're going to do great. You have to do things that people aren't willing to do, right? Like, that's the separation. I ask all my guests, their last question. Give me your unbreakable moment. Give me that moment that should have broken you, could have broken you, and you didn't

and you came through the other side of that tunnel. It's probably the moment of not wanting to be alive. You know, I think I was at a dark spot in my life where at that moment, I was prescribed to Ambien from three different doctors. monthly. I was happy I only had three pills left. It was the night of my DEY, my second one, 2014. And I got home and I just remembered, I was like, fuck, I'm just going to take the rest of these and I hope I don't wake up. Meanwhile, like, I knew I was going to wake up. Like, I was taking 15 milligrams almost every night. Like, I knew I was going to wake up. And I was just

like, I hope this ends it. And I woke up. And for three days, I basically didn't leave my room. I didn't eat, I didn't drink anything, I just sat there. I was just being. And at that very moment, I was just like, fuck this. I got to change. How can I change? And I literally called two people and I said, find me some kind of help. Where can I go? Because honestly, like, it was kind of like the moment where I was like, I can't live life like this. I have to change. Something has to change. what has to change. So I was like, I'm going to check myself into a treatment center and figure things out, right? Unplug all those wires, decompress, like uncover all the shit that I was going through,

why I was going through it, and kind of reprocess how I live and uncover why I am why I am. Look, like when I went to the meadows, I spent a week in this thing called Survivors where it was basically taking everything that was ever hurting me inside and just unethical. unloading it, talking about the most painful things. I must have gone through, I'm looking for Kleenexes, I must have gone through a box of fucking Kleenexes every single session. Every session. And right then and there, I was like, okay, nothing.

I was like, I am unbreakable. I was like, this stuff literally should have broken me throughout my whole entire career, right? You know, the shit that I dealt with and I lived with and, you know, made me struggle throughout my whole entire career made me who I am. And that's what you said to me the other day in a text. You know, you said something along those lines. You know, it made me who I am today. Yep.

Right. And at that very moment, like, yeah, I could have been snapped in hash, but that's not who I am. And I wasn't going to let that happen, right? And that's why I'm sitting here today talking to you on this podcast, right? You know, like, shit. We all go through ups and downs. We all go through times that we think are unfathomable, shouldn't happen, darkest moments

you could ever possibly process. Like, I always think, like, everything happens for a reason. And those moments are put in our life for that challenge. And yeah, are they fucked up at times? Sure, of course they are. Some of them, like, I can look back at some of them now and, you know, flick off and, you know, shake my head and laugh. But, you know, those are the moments that give me the opportunity to be who I am today.

And I think that's the proudest thing that I can ever look at. I love that, man. You know, it's like, like, like. we got we got to think about the shit that we've gone through and the hard stuff we've gone through and we always have to remember that right like you said it best like that that inner child man that is so good i love that you said that because not many people have really like dove into that and that's something that i i can still go back to that painting that i drew when i was at the meadows of my inner child and exactly where he's standing and and what he's doing and and you know what kind of person he is and

and the attention that he adores and he seeks so yeah i could go into deeper conversations with that whenever you want. Brother, I appreciate you. First of all, I'm glad do you only have three Ambien left. Yeah, for sure. That's number one, because now I get a battle buddy for the rest of my life, and you and I get to keep walking this walk together.

I'm proud to call you, brother. I'm proud to call you a friend, man. I'm proud of walk this walk with you, dude. If I was sitting there in your house, I give you a big ass hug, man. I will next time I see you. You got it, my brother. Again, Michael Phelps, one of one.

Thank you for joining us here at Unbreakable. If you haven't read the book yet, there's a book out unbreakable how i turn my depression anxiety and a motivation you can too and that's what michael and i are doing again make sure you uh like and review this as well and michael phelps brother i love you and i appreciate you i'm gonna leave you one more thing so this is something i did when i was in treatment and it's kind of weird to think about but you know we we have so much talk that goes into our head every single day so you know i call it the roommates in my head Okay.

So the roommates in our head. So we have so many roommates in our head. So we can control what those roommates think. So the thing that I did at the Meadows was every single doorway I would walk into, whether it's a bathroom, whether it's a bathroom stall. Whatever doorway you're walking in and you're walking out, you say an affirmation about yourself and one that you believe. And I guarantee you.

You do that for a month. Have a list of 10 affirmations. You just have to pop your head. Holy shit. Just watch. Positive affirmations, you say. Positive affirmations. Affirmations, yeah.

Something nice about myself. Mm-hmm. Like, for me, like, I never thought that, like, I deserve love. And that was something that I would be with you. Always struggled with. And I would always say, I can handle love. I deserve love. And I used to walk through it.

And I'm like, oh, shit, cool. Like, like, you just feel better. Like, you feel happier. So I feel like, you know, like, I feel like it's like I'm always searching for little small ways or little small things that you can implement into your life that don't take too much brain power, right? That don't take too much space, right? Like, little small habits, whatever it is, right, that you can just throw in there every single day to give yourself a fighting chance, right? Like, we're all just looking for a chance to get through each day to go to one more.

So how can you fight and how can you fight in a positive way? You know what I'm going to begin this? Today. I love it. I'm starting it today. Absolutely. I'm starting it today. And that's where I tell people all the time, you can change your life now. It takes a fraction of a second. Change your life. I will start it today. And that's what's great about these. And, you know, I hit you up a couple of weeks ago about being your own hero, right? Start being your own hero.

Start being your own hero. We can make a choice to start loving ourselves up or make a change about our mental health or anything in our lives instantaneously. So I promise you, I give you my word right now. I will start doing this today. And now you bring me to another point. And choice, we also have control. what's in our control every single day, right?

There's so much shit and so much stuff. Our choice is in our control. Correct. So, yeah, that's, like, that's something for me, like, like, I, like, I have two tattoos and the word control is something I'm, I want somewhere on my body, so I look at every single day. Because that's something, like, for me, like, I can control my emotions. I can talk about my emotions.

I can talk about my feelings. I can write down those things, right? I can control if I'm thirsty. I can control if I need to go to the bathroom. I go to the bathroom, right? Those are things that are in my control. So when I talk about simplifying things in the most purest form, most simplest way, right?

It's control. What can you control every day? Another one. Another little trick. I love it. I love it. Let's keep doing it. Let's keep doing it.

Hey, brother. I don't know if we're going to save the world. We're damn sure going to improve it together. One person at a time. Yep. I love you, my dude. I appreciate you, my dude. Thanks, dude.

Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not. not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all,

embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Robert from the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast. Joe and I are both lifelong Star Wars fan, so we're celebrating May the 4th with a brand new week of fun,

thought-provoking Star Wars-related episodes. Join us as we tackle science and culture topics from a galaxy far, far away, such as the biology of tontons and wampas on the ice planet hot, or the practicality and corporate business sense of the Sith Rule of Two. Listen to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever, you get your podcast.

On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors.

Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.