The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Unbreakable Episode 89 - Sean Payton

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Welcome to Unbreakable! A mental wealth podcast hosted by Fox NFL Insider Jay Glazer. On today’s episode, Jay goes inside the huddle with Denver Broncos Head Coach Sean Payton. Enjoy Sean’s incredible journey to becoming one of the winningest coaches in NFL History! Follow, rate & review Unbreakable with Jay Glazer here!https://link.chtbl.com/unbreakablewithjayglazer#fsrSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal, but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque.

Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Unbreakable with Jay Glaser, a mental wealth podcast. Build you from the inside out. Now, here's Jay Glaser.

Welcome into Unbreakable, a mental wealth podcast with Jay Glazer. I'm Jay Glazer, and this podcast is great because I get to bring on people I've known for forever, for a long time, and dive in to certain things that we've had really deep conversations about, but then share them with the world to lift everybody else up. This person, he's a leader of men. He's learned a lot for me. I've learned a lot from him. And we continue to learn a lot from each other.

We were teammates about two years ago for Fox, but you probably know him better as the head coach of the Denver Broncos, the one and only Sean Payton. How you know, man? Jay, I'm doing well. I got to be honest with you. I appreciate the warm welcome. Obviously, you and I consider you as close a friend as I have in this industry,

but I'm looking over your right-hand shoulder, and I'm thinking, do you actually have a game ball for everyone that you have on this podcast? No, I just have one from the morons who actually go, hey, here's my first game ball. That's so for people who are just listening audio-wise. Over my right shoulder is a game ball presented to Sean Payton. It says New York Giants 41, New York Jets 28, and the date is September 5th, 1999 Giant Stadium. I believe that was the first game ball you ever got.

Yeah. And then you gave it to me for a pretty funny, fucked up reason. Well, so real quickly, here's the cool thing about game balls. It's not when you get them really. it's like when time goes by and then like here we are looking at one and then really what's in that game ball is a story, a couple stories and it brings back memories.

That's all. So the date's important, the score is important. And this is my first year at the New York Giants. I'm the quarterback coach that year. And in this game, Coach Fossil, the late Jim Fossil had a death in his family that didn't allow him to be there for that week at practice. And so I think his father passed.

And Jim was gone for his father's funeral. And he's like, hey, I want you to call the game this week. And it's a regular season game. Now, the timing was a little tough because it was Belichick as the defensive coordinator and Parcells as the head coach. Like there's other first times you want, it's the first time I've ever going to call a game in my life. Yep. And I'm like, man.

And no one had known it. So that's the key. Yeah. Yeah. And I was at CBS at the time. when breaking news by the minute started becoming a thing back then. And on Sunday morning, came out with it that I've learned Sean Payton, the quarterback coach, will be calling the game today instead of Jim Fossel.

And any time you break a story in New York, people go crazy. I mean, just look at like when I had the O'Dell Beckham thing a few years ago, and people just went nuts or went to Martindell last year. They just go crazy. But I've been around that team since 93. And you presented it, and it is signed on the other side. Yeah. And what you wrote was, Jay, every squirrel eventually finds a nut, as in good job, you finally got a story.

Well, you and I, at that very moment in time, we're probably in similar positions career-wise, same industry, different areas. But the point is, we're both young and trying to make impressions. And so, you know, it's not often the Jets Giants play in the regular season every four years. You know, in other words, AFC, NFC, based on the schedule. That could change now, I guess, with the 17th game. But the point is, they play a lot in the preseason, but this was a regular season game. Bill Parcells, who I was going to later work for,

I didn't know at this time, was the head coach, and Coach Bill Belichick was the defensive coordinator. And, you know, it was one of those deals where you just want to have a good first impression, like, you know, as a play caller, you know, the clock and everything going fast. And it was one of those games where everything went right. And I say that humbly. I mean, I can recall the late David Patton got a double reverse for 60 yards. Kerry Collins had one of those games that was just like, man, the ball didn't hit the ground.

A lot of guys played well that night. I just remember coming home of just being like, wow. You know, there's that old saying when you do something. The one thing about New York, obviously the media can be enormous. positively or negatively. You know, because that's really what sells a lot, and that city is one of the bigger media markets in the world. So I'm just, I'm glad I had that type of result

because, you know, obviously in that city, it's going to be one of the other. You could have been serving me burgers in and out, which actually the first time I ever had in and out burger was with you and Oxnard at Cowboys Camp because I think I was still New Yorker back then. So I didn't really. I don't know what that was.

You opened my eyes to a whole new thing. And you, wait, real quick. So, look, folks, I'm going to have Sean and I Diamondow a story about that he shared with me about his dad because we've talked mental health when I really started talking about it here with a lot of our events, a lot of our players especially. But before that, because you're talking about the Giants and your quarterback coach, I want people to understand, though,

your first job, you started. You didn't really have your own office. Tell people where it was with the Eagles. Yeah, so I coached in college for nine years. years. And my goal was to be a college football coach in the Big Ten. I didn't get recruited to the Big Ten. I was from Illinois. I went to Eastern Illinois. And so, yeah, those first nine years were, you know, San Diego State, Miami, Ohio, Indiana State, end up at Illinois. And then I'm getting ready to take a job at Maryland. And there's a quarterback's job that opens up in Philadelphia.

And this is one of these unique ties. You know, a lot of times people will ask for advice relative to moving forward in the profession. And I always tell them the same thing. Be present where your feet are at. All that other stuff really takes care of itself. You know, this is a small industry. And so Bill Callahan was the offensive line coach at the Eagles, and John Gruden was the offensive coordinator under Ray Roads.

And Callahan at one point spent time, a lot of time, at the University of Illinois. And there were a number of people that knew him still that were there. equipment guys, training room guys, even in the administration. And Bill was well thought of back then, back there at Illinois. And there were two or three of these guys that visited with Bill about me when this job opened because they were looking for a young college quarterback. They were looking for a blank tape.

They wanted a young guy to work with the quarterbacks and learn. And so the point I'm making with that story is you never know who it is that might be able to help you. relative to your profession. And so you've got to approach it like everyone can, and you're making an impression with everyone. And I had great relationships with these guys. And I'm getting ready to go to Maryland, and all of a sudden, you know,

I get a call from Bill and Gruden. I go up there in an interview. And so my first pro job, I get hired by the Eagles, and I'm super excited. Now, you know, University of Illinois has got a beautiful football office overlooking the field. Maryland got a mahogany office

looking over the field. field and man, I'm going to the NFL. I'm excited and I get up there and the offices at that time were in the basement of Veterans Stadium. And there were really just three offices for the offense on the left and three down the hallway on the right for the defense and like the team meeting room had like this, oh, I'm going to say like this divider. And when they pulled it back, like 50 of the 80 guys could actually see Ray Rhodes. And so we had a lot of team meetings. We're two. thirds of the team saw them and the third didn't it just depended on where you stood in the meeting so the facilities obviously were crazy so that being said yeah get to your point let's go

I'm on I'm on a couch in john gruden's office with a with a phone but on that staff was john harbaugh wait wait but that's your office right the couch the couch so I and I look around and I thought and I and he goes hey just make yourself comfortable and I'm like then I realize he's serious like I'm here And so I got a phone, a notepad, and part of that couch. And, you know, you felt a little bit more like a cat or a dog. Like, I was like, you know, you'd move in and out of the office spaces to someone else's. So you really didn't have your own office. And, you know, I'd go down the hall where the quality control guys were and kind of sit in there, you know, and that was kind of nice maybe.

And so I was a little nomadic. And yet, nonetheless, that's what the job was, you know, but it was still in the NFL. Back then, because it's not like, you know, tape's not the same. It is now. Obviously, now coaches, they grind. They watch tape, watch tape. Were you not, like, were you just looking over a grudent shoulder? Like, you have to go to the film room?

Like, what were you doing on the couch to work? Well, we had film. Back then, we had beta. So now everything is on computer, basically, like, our music. So I can click on right now and watch any game from last year. And two seconds, pull up third down. We had to cut everything out. So, yeah, I had areas to go.

it was always like we were always doing beta projects. And so we had to cut up certain teams and stay on top of certain trends. And it was just done differently. There aren't many people. There aren't many listeners that can remember play record, you know, from any type of tape to tape. And so it was a little bit of that. And there were just, there were a lot of young coaches that were going to go on and be successful on that staff.

None of us knew it. There's no windows because you're in the basement. And how uncomfortable is it just, having your office being on Gruden's couch? Yeah, I mean, did it beat on you? I think, I think this, you know, this gets back to this theme of grit.

Like, it doesn't matter. I'm here. They're going to have to like, they're going to, there's, there's no way that they're going to figure out how to kick me out of this league. All right. I just needed to get an invite into this party. What was the salary? 90. Wow.

90 the first year, 97. I've been coached nine years. So it was 90. It was a one-year deal. And you didn't have a car. They gave you some Super Bowl tickets. All my families from Scranton. I never lived there, but that's where my parents were born and raised.

That's where all my cousins and aunts and uncles were. And my uncle ran a Subaru dealership in Scranton, Manuka area. And so it was up to you to find a car dealer worth Super Bowl tickets. And so, man, there are a lot of Eagles fans in that area. and my family members were. And so I had a Subaru. And then pretty soon I noticed that the cars to my right were a lot nicer than the Subaru with their Super Bowl tickets. So anyway, it was all good.

All right. So we're going to get into, you know, a keep serious thing here. But then after that, we'll go tip for tat on stories we have to bring up about each other. And, you know, we've got a long funny history. But, you know, when I really started, opened up, I think about my own mental health, really start diving in. And people always wonder, also like, hey, I have that happens. Because I wrote something in the athletic years ago.

Somebody just asked me a question about where I get material to talk to our ex-players and combat vets. And I'm like, well, I have my own depression anxiety. I was clinically diagnosed or sat along those lines. And I just went into it openly. And people were like, oh, my God. And they couldn't believe that I talked about it openly. It's not, I've never hidden my crazy, right?

Sean, like, you've been around me forever. I've never hidden it. But now I know how to talk about it, which I, I didn't. know how to communicate it in the past. And I've done a lot of work to learn how to communicate it. So, yeah, okay, but I was just saying, you've always known I was crazy. We just didn't know the kind of. Your personality, I think, yeah, I think that's your nature relative to being open.

And I think I say this kiddingly, but that region in the country, you know, when you, when you grew up in that New York, North Jersey area, you know, Parcells was a guy. You knew how he felt right away. There was, you know, everything was worn on. your sleeves. And I think that was one of the things that, one of the things that draws people to what you do. And so from afar, obviously, you and our close friends, but from afar, it's been interesting to see, obviously, this passion you have, not internally for yourself, but this external ability to help others, you know, whether it's from the military or all walks of life. And I think it's been

kind of cool watching that journey, if you will, with you. We've been on some calls. that involved former military. And this thing is around the corner every day. You know, we, the golf world just dealt with the death of a real good player who was battling, obviously, depression. And so it's something that transcends race, color, region, you know, it's amongst all of us. And much like cancer, heart disease or any other illness, you know, it can be something that affects our family. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games.

Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, because I've eventually found the words to start talking, you and I start talking one day. Again, this is, this is only a few years ago. You and I have been friends since 99. And now there's this space to start talking about things, but also understand your friends better why they are how they are. And if you're comfortable, share what you told me what happened with your dad. Yeah, look, I had a father who was diagnosed as is bipolar.

and I was, my family, or four of us, you know, an older brother and sister, and then myself and my younger sister. My parents had myself and my younger sister later in life. So it was really unique that there were two children, then nine years, and then two more. And so, you know, when I was in high school, my dad was close to retiring. And, you know, he fought in World War II. If he was alive today, he'd be, I think, 100 years older, 101. So my parents were older relative to my classmates' parents.

And that was, when you look at pictures, we just had this discussion on, you know, that generation. And I'm talking about those that fought in World War II. When you look at those photos, you know, I'm looking at my dad who's 1920, 21, 22, and he looks almost like he's 30, 31, 32. They just look older. You know, they went through the Great Depression. He dealt with the death of his father when he was nine years old, years old. And then he and his three brothers, you know, all four boys are serving in World War II,

Army Navy Air Force and the Marine Corps. All four have to come home when their mom dies. And there are a family that has no money. The sister, my dad's sister, so there were five siblings in all. She's at home with the mother. And the mother, you know, is in the dining room until the boys can get home to help with the burial embalment costs. And so to hear some of the stories, obviously I never met any of my father's parents because they passed when he was younger. Sometimes you begin to learn a little bit more about your parents even after they're gone. But that was, I'm going to say, I was in high school when I found out about some of his

challenges. And there were some incidents. There were just a series of things that, and then finally, I think it was a freshman in high school. And, you know, you're gradually learning things. And, but to his credit, none of us, you know, that back then, it was, it was such a taboo topic that it was never talked about. And, you know, I remember listening to one of his doctors explained it really to us, like, hey, it's, it's an illness just like so many other illnesses. And so you learn more about it and you recognize, you know, some of the things that he's dealing with.

you know, he fought it. And I remember there were times where I thought that's the way it was going to end possibly with him, maybe with him possibly taking his own life. And it didn't. But I would say there were times when the phone would ring at college and I would always think, is this the call, you know, those type of things. So, yeah, that was kind of my personal journey with it, if you will, or my siblings. I think my older brother and sister were aware of it, obviously prior. There were such a gap age-wise that, you know, those two knew a lot more than my younger sister and I. It's Christmas night, those two are downstairs,

and we're like, they've got to come upstairs because Santa Claus is coming. We don't know any of this. Right, right, right. You know, we're up in our bedrooms, and we're listening to them play with our toys, and we're like, what's going on? Where do you think that that, knowing that and seeing that,

and I guess kind of helped him along the way molded you? I think I can recall that evening specifically, and if you said, when do you feel like you began to leave adolescence And, you know, when we were in high school and going through puberty. Well, when you say that evening, what are you? I can recall that evening feeling like, dang, man, this is life. Like, this is, like, I can recall just, it was like one of these, you know, there's a series of three or four steps.

You know, you finish schooling, you got to go to work, whenever that is. All right, step one, you got to pay your own bills, you know. Right. This was one of those steps where it was like, ah, this is, this, I just remember, you know, struggling to go to sleep and thinking, you know, because there's, there's that, every one of us, wants to internalize it and think, are we doing everything right? You know, in other words, but I'm awfully proud, you know, I was awfully proud of him. Man, he was a great father.

And it was just something that fortunately he had a treated. But it was something that affected our whole family. Yeah, and you're saying, fortunately, he had a treated where a lot of guys, especially men that, and men right now still aren't willing to get a treated. Yeah, I mean, we're talking about back then, that was such a, you know, today, It's very normal for an athlete, coach, to see a counselor, for us to attend relationship counselor. I mean, fortunately, we've come a long way in that area. Thank God.

And not only the topic, in general, his generation, they had trouble laughing and smiling. You know, I mean, it was like the sky was falling all the time. Right, right, right, right. Because it really was for a period of time. When you went through what his family's struggles went through and the depression, and, you know, it was difficult. And that's why you see receding hairlines, gray hair, aging. You see a lot of stress in some of those photos.

Yeah, that's good point. Here they are going off to, he's 17, 18 going off to fight, you know, in a war. And you just think about that and puts it in perspective. Incredible, too, and just working. And Sean came on at, we was talking about a zoo, an MVP session, and opened up by his own dad and his experience, too, which is great, man. It was fantastic. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged.

It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. podcasts. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the fourth. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point,

this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so... Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes, I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah, for me, it's one of the most important years

for black people in American history. Listen to Look, back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so now we'll shift gears ago. We can kind of go tip for Tad here because we have so many stories on each other. We'll see which one gets left in this podcast. Well, first off, can I say this? Go ahead.

Congratulations. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. Listen, I mean it. Thank you. Because it really goes all the way back to 99. You know, this year, I'm going to tie this in, so work with me. this year's quarterback class.

You know, there's six or seven of them, and all these kids are great kids. And all the kids got drafted. You know, a lot of times you're poking, looking for holes. And what was unusual, so many of these guys either had a girlfriend all the way from high school, Bo Nix. We drafted. He's married.

And one of them, I think it might have been JJ, who's engaged. And our general manager, George Payton, said, where'd you meet your fiance? And he's like, well, I was a sophomore in high school. and my parents went out and they said, I can't go anywhere, but further down the street. You know, stay on the block, basically, and he had some friends that were having a party, and he met this other sophomore girl.

And George said, wait a minute, you mean to tell me the first party you ever went to? You met your wife. He goes, it took me 300 parties. And so... Your point is, it's taking me 3,000. Well, and so, but you know what, though? that that's that's kind of the that's kind of the lesson because to see your face and look all of us

who follow you on social media I give you a hard time because I feel like you and I could go six months and I know exactly what you're doing every day because if I haven't seen it my wife seen it but to see how that's transformed you is pretty it's pretty amazing I'm proud to be with Rosie you've seen Sean has been there for all the failed relationships a lot and there's been a lot. But Rosie's just, she's different, man. You've met her two several times. She's different than anybody. I think it's important. We've ever been around the two of us. I think it's important the listeners hear this, though, because Jay was in Italy before he got married. And a lot of times you think, should I leave him alone? Or, no, they're having a good time. Maybe

I'll call him. And one day I'm driving. I call. And man, he's fired up. Time change, obviously. Rosie's there. And I say, put Rosie on. I said, Rosie, real quick. If you don't want to do this. If you don't want to do this, I said, I'll send you. If you want to get a plane ticket from Italy and it's just, and, but they hear the happiness, like you could, you can feel it over the phone. But you've seen her, like you've been around her. She's different, right?

Sean, like, man, she is, like she and her sister, I jerk around. I'm like, their nicknames for them are Prozac and Zoloft. Like they're walking anti-depressants. They're always happy, always. We were just at, had, Shaw McVey took us out. And Renee came to him and he's like, you two are consistent. That's the best thing I could say. You guys are always smiling.

Always know what we get with you. There's never, like, you're consistent. And that's what I need in my life is consistency, right? Because I am walking chaos. I'm a rolling ball of chaos. So if I can have consistency like that, it's, I've never had it the way she does it. And she's so sympathetic to my fucked upness. Look, there's wisdom in decisions.

And as you've gotten one, you've begun, I think, to be a little bit more clear relative to what you're looking for. Yeah. And I used to think that, hey, date as many beautiful women as you can. And that's, I'm showing off and let's, you know, hey, it's, you know what I mean? It's like it was part of my, that mask that I put on. It was really because of the depression, anxiety. You felt this worthlessness.

So let me go out there and show off and be a womanizer and, you know, show off from the world. Because it was like building up this thing that I felt so, because I felt so tiny inside, you know? Yeah. And now I have the person who makes me feel the biggest. So we actually got to be teammates two years ago when I joined Fox. And I don't know the- For a time, go ahead. Yeah, no, this is he, this, I don't know the people realize, though,

and I didn't even, when you really start looking at it, you know, some of these studio jobs, the history of that team. And so when you and Michael, who've been on there for, I don't know how many years. I've been on 21. He's, I think, 17. 17. Like, are the new additions? Right.

Right. I mean, now, Kurt. Kurt's been there one year less than me. Well, picture this. Joining a team that the, first off, when Fox started televised and football games, we're all like who. And we knew that they had the Simpsons. But long story short, Jimmy, Howie, Terry, then you have Kurt.

and then you have stray yourself, not in any order, but when you go then like 15 years before, like there's someone else showing up saying, hey, can I join this team? And they're like, ah. Would you say we hazed you? Yeah. Absolutely.

Daily. Right, we did. Daily. Daily, right? Daily. You're coming walking and like, I'm a Super Bowl winning head coach. We're like, we don't give a fuck.

You're the new kid. You got called snack bar. or on the air by Bradshaw. I made fun of your sneakers. I honestly, I love the setting. Right. Yes. A lot is the best.

The team, the really good studio shows from afar, you begin to look at it. They enjoy each other's company away from the set. And it's not just this is what we do. We actually get to do this. And then we'd sit in that green room every day. And like there were a ton of those days where I wasn't on the second show. show because Jimmy was in town and we were rotating. But I still wanted to hang out because that was my football fix and you guys provided that.

And so I bring this up because the following year, I just get hired at Denver and here it is after one year. I remember saying this when I left. By the way, we were talking about hazing him. Sean would talk in the dream room like we are right here. We'd be like, Sean, shut the fuck up. He'd take me a kid with him like, we're not fucking kid with you, rookie. Shut the fuck up. But he's like, how can they talk to me like this?

I'm Sean Payton. So I know it's your show. I come home to this trophy. Yeah. And it's on the kitchen table. And I said to my wife, what is this? She said, it's an Emmy. And Bill Richardson had called, left me a voicemail, called him back.

He goes, we won an Emmy. And they used to like repeatedly win it. And they had gone a while where they hadn't. And so I'm like, what are you talking about? And they're like, no, we want an Emmy. And so that thing is right next to the Lombardi Trophy. And so this year, I'm going to be honest, when those awards were announced, I scrolled right down the list. And I saw you all didn't win it this year.

And there was a part of me that was absolutely happy. Yeah, because you're like, because you now believe you're the reason we won that one. Well, I damn sure it wasn't the reason you did. Let me tell you the balls that you're all paying here. Not only that, I'm going to tell you the balls. And you got to see him coach, he has balls. It's a little bit of hootspot. To kick it in the sports, yes.

To kick an onside kick in the Super Bowl is ballsy. But here's maybe one of the ballsy's things he's done. He brings me in to coach his team in mixed martial arts for all the training camp. So I come down with Randy Gator, who I started this whole program with in like 07. And Jason Borba, he's one of our coaches also. And we come down. And we all go out to, I think, Emeralds. And then when Sean gets drinks in them, like,

He thinks he's the guy that, yeah, he's won an Emmy for everybody. And then some. So he's like, fuck, I could beat Randy Couture. And he starts fucking with Randy. And we go outside. All of a sudden, I see Randy take his watch off. I'm like, okay, that's it. We're done right there.

There's no more. Like, Sean was literally two seconds away from getting his ass choked out, dumped to the gutter. And it was just, you know, Randy was like, yeah, of course. I'm like, no, no, no, Sean, Sean, you don't get it. You don't get it. Oh, fuck, it was hilarious. He's balzy. He's balzy.

oh my God. You know, actually, I don't think I ever talked about this. I just talked about the outside kick. When did you know you're going to, like, at what point, I know you install it, going into the game.

Were you convinced that, hey, I'm doing it a matter what. Was there a situation? Yeah, I think this, it went back to, when we won the championship game, and we played a real good Vikings team, and it was the first time,

you know, there were so many firsts in New Orleans. The challenge was, like trying to act like we've been there before, you know, and that city is going to celebrate just a simple regular season win, you know, and then pretty soon you're having regular success. And, you know, in 06, our first year, we go to the NFC championship game. All these things were first, you know, we've never won outside the dome beneath 40 degrees. And I'm like, we can't help that that's never happened before, but we're getting ready to be one of the better away teams in the last 15 years.

You've never won a playoff game home or away. Well, we're going to check that, box. Now we're going to check the away box. And so here we are going to play in the Super Bowl versus an experienced Colts team that has Peyton Manning. And they're returning to Miami, Jay, because they had just won there four years ago against the Bears. They're staying at the same hotel. Manning's in the same hotel room. And I think the feeling was like we got to find a way to steal a possession. And you know, Parcell's was a big influence for me. And, you know, he played in a similar type of game that he recalled, where. they went on the road as the Giants as an underdog in the championship game to beat the 49ers to get the right to play in Tampa and upset the bills.

Like that game was supposed to be Buffalo and San Francisco, but the Giants went on the road and they're going to win their second Super Bowl. And they faked a pun in that game. And he just talked about being leery of complacency, especially in a city like New Orleans that's so excited that they're playing in a Super Bowl. And so, and then also, you know, showing your team that you have the guts to go win a game. And because then they'll play with the same confidence. So long story short, we started with the fake pun. Right. And then the looks weren't there.

And so like. Wait, did your players know going into the game you were going to call this? Yeah. So the night before at the special teams meeting, which I normally would sit in, but I wouldn't go and talk. I just stood up, said, give me five minutes real quick. I said, here's the deal, man. We came here to win a game. We didn't come here to be in a game.

And I said, I'm going to call this onside kick. And I can't tell you what I'm going to call it. We'll figure it out. But look, you guys make me right. And defense, if they get the ball there at the 40-yard line, so be it. I mean, Peyton Manning is complete and passes at that point. You know, we kick off and touch it back. You know, he can be at your own 40 in like three seconds.

So we thought pretty good about the risk reward, The challenge was the rookie kicker in Thomas Morsted, and the worst mistake was, I knew at halftime I wanted to do this, and half times 35 minutes in the NFL, and instead of waiting until, like, the last eight minutes, I told Thomas, like, coming in at half, hey, we're going to open second. So he had to sit at his locker half an hour listening to the who,

and then thinking about this, that was dumb by me. Oh, my God. So it was finally kind of confirmed by, you know, the week's practice. I got comfortable seeing Thomas do this repeatedly because it's kind of a hard technique to kind of barrel hook this ball. You know, it can happen a lot as it can be short. You know, it kind of curves back. But he consistently, he consistently did a good job with it.

And then you get down to Miami. Now you're really leery because you don't know who's watching the practice. So it was something that we felt like could be. to our advantage and it helped us steal a possession. How has the, you talked about Bonnix a little bit earlier, how is the subterfuge changed, say 20 years ago when he first started coaching to now leading up to the truck? Because everybody, again, you were kind of on the Oscar, people saying you're going to have JJ McCarthy and it was never JJ.

It was always Bow Nix. And, you know, you got some information out there, right, that was able to help you out because you're hoping JJ would get taken ahead of you. How has it changed over the last five years, ten years, twenty years? Well, I think this, the media's coverage of the first round of the draft in the last 20 years has gotten like dramatically different. Look, the fans pay attention. And then tell everybody what you want to do. Well, my point is.

No, no, no, no. I want you to finish this, but you're a crazy idea that you called me with the day before the draft to make sure everybody knew Bo Nix was always your guy. But go, go with this. I can't remember. You wanted to show up to his house. house. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't do that. I kind of talked you out of it. I think this, one of the things you learn, first off, you don't want to be drafting early ever. And then, you know, in a year that you have to find a quarterback, it is a quarterback heavy class near the top of the draft.

Two things. Number one, you have to pay attention to that NFL train, but don't ever get on it. I mean by that, don't ever get on that train and then base your decisions. Because collectively, we all don't know who's driving it. When I hear people say, you know, this guy, he could have gotten the second or third round, I know that they don't know what they're talking about. All right. But all of those things can move scouts and coaches in their grading and their opinion. So trust what you see. Tune out the white noise when you're trying to evaluate anybody. And it comes up all the time. You know, 20 years ago, you didn't have the resources.

And now it's amazing. It's almost like the tail wagging the dog sometimes relative to if you don't work at it, you'll find yourself, at least in the first round, paying attention to these mocks. And so how do you tune that out? I think that's important. I do think people have more access to video and more access to workouts and more access to all of these things.

But honestly, in my mind, opinion, humbly, that I don't know how many great evaluators are out there. It's a tough position to evaluate to begin with. I think once we knew that Bo was the guy we were going to draft, we knew that we couldn't be the only team seeing what we were seeing. And come to find out we weren't. I'm just going to say that relative to teams behind us. But neither here nor there, once you know what you're looking to do, we have a lot of close friends. So you're not trying to burn relationships. You have to make sure you're evaluating everyone.

And then it's like, it's like when we felt like someone was going to skunk our first 15 plays at a hotel we were staying. Then I'd go crazy because you'd want to protect the first 15 plays. And then pretty soon I learned it was better to make like 50 sets of 15 plays that were all different. And then it's what happens right now in social media. If you want to get someone confused and completely blurry them, And then they have no idea what you're doing.

Are you with me? Right. So in other words, if there's too much clarity on something, as simple as that. People think it can't be real. Right. Yeah. If there's too much clarity. But this was a year, there were a lot of these prospects that I think are going to be successful.

But you knew Bo from the night of his workout. Yeah. We do it pretty early on because, well, it was his work. His workout, that we hit a string of these workouts all within the same kind of eight days. And then there's this. interesting part, and it's because the buildings now are bigger, the scouting departments, the coaching staffs, look, your listeners will appreciate this, but there's relationships all of these people have. And so, well, who else knows? You know, and so anytime we went up to our board

or discussed quarterback, we just kind of put them in an order. We had them in the spring and left it that way and never really, and then I think at some point it was George and I and then the Penners, you know, Greg and Kerry. So on your board you had, you didn't have it. We just, we just generic, right? You didn't have how you really correct. The last week, we had them all like, like they all fell into a magnet tray. And here's the one interesting thing.

I remember, you know, so ownership was briefed on it. The leakers, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so ownership was briefed. And then we, Ms. Condoleezza Rice, all right, Dr. Rice, Secretary of State. I mean, she's one of our owners and she loves this draft process. She really does, and we'll have a Zoom call and we'll go through these mocks. And, you know, now the mocks, you can simulate them any way you want. You can include 50, 60, 70 different mocks.

And so there's a lot you can do. And we typically like to do that a week or two ahead of the draft with Dr. Rice. And so she would say Condi, call me Condi. So anyway, before that, I remember just talking to Mr. Penner and saying, hey, now think about this for a second. The term they use at the White House is, are we going to read someone in on this? And so can we let Condoleezza Rice know that this is what we're doing? And she said, this is not a normal conversation. She said, I've kept a lot of secrets in my life.

And we laugh because if you ever Google search, her successes and her experience, you know, she's been the one reading others in. And here we were, all right, Dr. Rice. Can we trust you, the Secretary of State? Yeah. Anyway, so look, it's changed a lot in 20 years. I think the fans are more educated, and I think the media are more educated. And yet, it still gets back down to the vision.

What do you see? Because there was a lot about the underneath throws, the offense, can't throw the ball down the field. And look, the good thing is we're getting a chance to see. We've seen it now for three weeks. But you also said, tell people, fill people in what he did with his interview. and people may not know this whole process. So they get a workout, but then they give him plays and have him come back the next morning to see what he could regurgitate. That's when he really blew you out of the water, right?

All these guys study. And so what we try to do the day before the private, all right, not the pro day, but the day and all of these guys we had private workouts with. So at 5 p.m., we send an email. At 5 p.m. the day before, they get basically three days worth of instant. So it'd be like training camp day one, day two, day three. And that's kind of more than you can digest before 9 a.m. the next morning. So you're getting it. So this is the process for a 5 p.m.

You're going to draft 5 p.m. the night before it's probably workout. You're sending them three days worth of plays. Yeah. And that's going to be probably, I don't know how many pages, 35 pages of just material. And so it would be like you and I in college at 5 p.m. getting the stuff that we're going to get tested on. but we're getting it right then. Brian, I didn't go to class and couch.

I don't know what you're talking about. Well, listen, that's why. As soon as I started in that analogy, I knew it was the wrong one. That was totally wrong one. How many plays are on a page? So I want people who understand this. Yeah, so let's talk about a day. So one day install might be six runs and 28 passes.

The second day might be six or seven runs, 24 pass. and third day. So again, there's more. And remember this. We're sending more. We don't expect them to, we're wanting to see where's the break point. Okay, okay.

Like, So you get him 125 players, let's say, then bring a minute, 9 a.m. the next day. 9 a.m. the next day. You come in, you're, in this one, he was at University of Oregon, football complex. We meet him, his coaches. We've met him already.

But now this is, and there's a group that's in there, you know, George, Peyton, our general manager, myself, Davis Webb, Joe Lombardi. Each one of these would include about five or six from the organization. And we kind of just start with the cadence, the huddle. We start, draw up these formations and no notes. Now, this is like, look, I'll say this, and I mean it, this class is pretty bright. And I can't recall one in which, man, all these guys were doing a great job. But certainly, Bo is, you can tell he's real sharp. And pretty soon, like he's getting too much.

It's not, but you're waiting to catch him, and he's, he's hitting these answers, hitting these answers. And, well, we're going to go then on the field and throw, but we meet for two hours, and it was really impressive. So he's regurgitating out everything you're asking. Oh, man. You can tell him at 5 p.m. when he got this. He checked into a hotel.

He put a do not disturb sign on in a pot of coffee. Right. And he said, leave me. So he's real conscientious. Yeah, he did a great job. He's real smart. So then I asked him, I remember saying, hey, what's in your backpack? And he just like, what do you mean?

I said, take me through what's in your backpack. And he reaches in. He's like, you know, athletic tape, my grass shoes, my turf shoes. Then he had a lacrosse ball to roll my back out. Then he had some bomb recovery ointment bomb. And I kept waiting for him to pull out like a Snickers bar or some dip or something. Like one bad habit. Right.

down, I'm shaking. Everything in that bag was football related. Perfect. So he's a coach's kid. And then when we went out and he, you know, he had this, his pro day was the day before, but he threw another 75, 80 throws. He just said, you know, when you're throwing a football, you can do that pretty much every day. But he really would have thrown as long as we wanted, wanted him to. And I just remember leave and thinking, man, this was something. And so how many other teams will give him, like, did what you did, where he has to remember 125 play for the next day? I think teams have their own way, and this varies.

They have their own way of determining, you know, can he learn, can he quickly learn? I think it's hard sometimes to evaluate, can they multitask at the line of scrimmage or in the huddle? Like, can he be talking to the running back, send a guy in motion, change the play, like, to what degree? Because we can only evaluate the offense they're in. There was a lot made of his offense being a lot. I've heard it a million times. He led the league, led college football with the most quick throws. We got it. We understand all that. And then when we analytically remove all the quick throws from every quarterback, he was still first in his class, first in his class, first in his class,

accuracy, touchdown, all these recordables, sacks, the guy gets rid of the ball. There's so many things that we kept seeing on tape. And then we saw down the field arm talent. We're seeing it right now. So these guys can only run their offense that they're being asked to run. Our job is to project can they run this offense? And we think he can. But nothing fell out of that backpack, not like a lifesaver, not a breathman. Everything that fell out of it was like for a workout. What's the one thing to judge a quarterback on that is so overblown?

That you're like, oh, man, it's so just. Well, here's the latest. So one of the best off-schedual throwers in our league is Patrick Mahomes. You know, we've seen his ability to kind of twerk his body, but it's all out of necessity. Like in other words, that's what makes it special. It's not him just wanting to do it. Aaron Rogers is another one that has the ability to take a real quick poke step, deliver the ball accurately and fast. And I say this in funny position. because the receiver needs it now. A lot of guys need to, you know, collect stride and throw every time. And so over the years, it even started with a COSAR and a FAR, and, you know, the guys that could take a short step or throw off the wrong foot because they're trying to deliver it quicker to the open receiver. But Patrick, Aaron, those are a couple that do it right now and very effectively.

So I think what began to happen after the 2011 lockout, you started seeing more of these gurus that are training these quarterbacks. They're all talented. But they're trying to give the GMs, the scouts, the coaches, examples of their prospect doing these things, even though we don't get to see them doing them on tape. So you watch some of these workouts now, and I'll see a quarterback just jumping. and throw a shallow to his left, and I'm thinking, what on earth is he doing? What they're trying to do is show you that my client has the ability to make these throws. Right. So back to what's the most overrated thing.

When I watch the combine and I watch someone go five in a hitch, take a second hitch, and throw this 80-yard pass, that's the most overrated thing. And it's amazing because, look, it happened with a really talented, out of LSU and Jemarcus Russell. I mean, he could throw the ball, drafted really high. And even in pregame, when you watched him, there were ooze and Oz, ooze and Oz. But then during the game, there were just Oz.

And so I think that certainly arm strength is important and plays a big role. And look, you have to have an NFL arm. But you start, there are a lot of times when I'm watching stuff in workouts that I think, what are they doing? Picture someone that you watch are training for a fight or training to box or for a UFC fight and them doing something that you're like, that's never going to happen. Right, right. So I see that and it drives me crazy and I just like scratched my head and I'm like, holy cow.

And hopefully someone else, you know, there's enough people out there that could possibly get fooled by stuff like this. But I think ultimately you've got to look at the tape. And if you studied the tape, this guy started 61 games in his college career. All right. And he's six, two and a half, 220 pounds. And all I could go by is what we saw on tape. And now what we're seeing in practice during these OTAs.

And we're down to two weeks left. So there is that nice bit of confidence when all of a sudden, all the things that you're predicting that you've seen begin to come to forwerewe. and you're like, now remember, we drafted his center the year before, Alex Forsyth, who he's got great insight relative to his strengths and weaknesses. But it, look, it's a little bit of a to reach his own position, too. You know, like you can't pick a shoe out for me. I darn sure.

I know for a fact you're not going to be able to pick a shoe out for me. I'm going to like. And I probably can't pick a shoe out for you. Wait, do you during this process also, look, you're hard on guys. So, again, we trained these guys in M. years ago and Jason Borber, the coach I left down there, Jason Borber, is a combat vet. He worked with our team. That's what I'm saying.

So I think 101st Airborne, fought professionally, Mitch Marshallach, Moitai. We've trained a ton of players together. I sent him down with, again, me, Randy Gator, and Jason Borber, I left Borber there to train the Saints. And at one point, I call him up, I say, hey, do me a favor. Go grab Sean and ask him such and such. He goes, I'm not talking to coach like that. I'm like, coach. He's not coaching Sean.

go fucking ask Sean. And he's like, oh, no, no, I'm, I'm afraid of Sean. I'm like, Jason, you work for me. You don't work for Sean. So I'm like, what do we do it here? You're one of the best motherfuckers in the planet. What are you afraid of Sean for? My point is, you have a certain way that you come across to people.

Do you test these rookies for how you're going to be? How much you're going to fuck with them? How much you're going to abuse them? How you're going to, you know, to see who could take it or not, the way we did to you at Fox. Yeah. I think we try, like we try to see how they handle tough questions. You have to understand in these 20 years. But it's not just tough questions.

It's how you fuck with them. Right. But think about the history. When this combine first came out, guys didn't know what the drills were. There weren't videos. There weren't coaches to coach you how to answer questions. You know, they have 15 minutes now. Their biggest friend, when they sit in a combine interview, these players, is when the coach

and coaches or scouts want to talk because they know that clock's, for 15 minutes. We want them on the mic real quick. So trying to dig into the makeup of these players, quarterbacks or other positions, yeah, you want to be a little confrontational. Why did you suck in that USC game? And well, you want to hear their answer really. Because you know what? They're probably going to have a game where they suck here too. And you want to see how they respond. And you want to see how they like said, hey, look, I played, I played poorly in that game, man. I knew it going in. I did this. You want to see some accountability. and you want to be able to,

but you want to be able to, not catch them off guard, but just see how they bow up and respond. So yeah, to answer your question, now you have a limited amount of time. Right. Like, you guys had six and a half months at Fox. All right.

So, but you do try to, you do try to get a complete body work on the tape. what they're like. You try to get to know as much as possible. I think it's harder to do. It's harder to do now because they're so...

They're so coached up too. Yeah, they're coached up. But that's why those private workouts... I used to do it, yeah. You can't work out privately 300 players before the DREP. Right, right, right. You're at those workouts. But for me, as a head coach, in a year where this was important to see all of these guys.

And each one of them, man, like, you know, I remember Caleb coming into the room and there was a rumor that he flew private to the combine. I'm like, I am going to totally give this guy shit. And so you're kind of, you're expecting something. I'm like, so tell me, when did you land? And he kind of knew where I was going. And I said, well, when did you take up? What airport?

And he's like, coach, I was 37C. I was coach. I was in coach. And I'm like, all right. You know, and so it was a great answer. That's good. That's great. He saw where I was going.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. All right, last two questions. All right, so I'll make it a little quick here. Give me the best. Football, let's say football, lesson football advice, something along those lines that equates the best to giving somebody advice for real life. I get this all the time.

And I want to say it's easy. It's not easy. The answer is easy. Applying it is difficult. But, you know, this Angela Duckworth wrote this book on grit. And Pete Carroll was the first to bring her to his team. you've heard Dan Campbell talk about it with the Lions. We've talked about it.

You talk about it all the time. There are terms used. And how do you tell someone that you are going to fail and you are going to fail repeatedly and yet you are always, they're going to have to kill me before I don't get back up? And you and I've used those terms. You're going to have to kill me. And so that's not that there aren't lessons or times where we, like, I have to. feel like I've grown that way with grit, and yet I knew I couldn't pass the school of business

at Eastern, so I had to midstream adjust, so I went to Econ. I couldn't do it there, and then I got a communications degree. So I got to be smart, too. So I'm not saying grit, dumb, but you have to have a mentality in any path, any journey, business, whatever it is that you're wanting to be successful. And if you ask me one thing, it was that, man, I was always going to get back up. Like, I would have to unconscious. I love that. I love that. All right. Last question. I ask all my guests this. Give me your unbreakable moment. The moment that should have broken you, could have, and didn't. And as a result, you came back stronger for the rest of your life. All right. So real quick, when you first asked me that question, I was thinking, man, when you put

me in that fricking, that vertical cold thing at unbreakable. So you're not talking about my unbreakable experience. No, no, no, not yet. Although your unbreakable experience, real quick, How about this? He comes in to work out at my gym unbreakable one time, and I pair him with another guy, Justin Hartley, who from This Is Us, and it turns out these two fucking guys went to the same high school. How does nobody know that? It's unbelievable.

Of all things, right? Like, the magic of Unbreakable is unbelievable. Listen, I've trained at your gym, and you knew during my suspension, man, that was a, obviously that was a difficult time. I'm not going to count that as this moment, though, because that actually made me stronger. I think in 2002, we had already been to the Super Bowl. I'm the offensive coordinator with the Giants. This is going to be the year my mom passes away.

She's sick. We don't know it yet with lung cancer. And we're struggling offensively. We're winning games, but we're not scoring. We're moving the ball. We're not scorn. And we had a moment in one of these away cities in Arizona where they're, there was an interception thrown.

And it wasn't a falling out between myself and the late Jim Fossil. But it was a frustrating moment for me. And so after that, Jim wanted to get more involved calling the offense, which as a head coach, I completely understand. And so we still work hand in hand. And we actually went to the playoffs that year. We actually played well. And I remember it was the bye weekend.

We had all gone back to Tennessee. My mom had retired there. and she was getting treatment. And we went back to deal with or get her assisted living because this cancer was now going to be, we knew it was something that was going to be pretty soon in terminal, obviously. And we couldn't catch up with it. Like during my father's time when he retired before he died,

there was years of, I remember thinking, this is the last time I'm going to see him alive. This is the last time I'm going to see him alive. And in my mother's case, she had this diagnosis. with lung cancer. I'll never forget, September 18, 2002. She's going to pass away October 18th, 2002. So within 30 days. So by weekend, all the kids are going down there to get her squared away. She doesn't want to come live with us. And when we land one by one when we get there, she's now in the hospital in a coma. Her brain had been swelling. And so she's going to die. Like, we ended up

planning a funeral when we thought we were going to be going in to plan her care. And so coming back, off the bye weekend, then Jim takes over the play calling. And what I remember was that battle between like your career and your ego self, which was football, versus, you know, mourning the loss of your mom. And feeling like there was that I'm in the tank, I'm down, but is it more professionally? What probably it was selfishly when I say that, because we get so tied into what we do. that what we do then pretty soon begins to define us if we win or lose. And so I would say that 20 or 20-02 season and dealing with that thing offensively,

now, there was a lot of feeling like, oh, Jim was going to, I'm going to return to the Giants after that season. We went to the playoffs, but there were a handful of teams that had called, and it was a matter of would they give me permission? And I remember Jim saying to me, and look, I own this. He said, I'll give you two weeks, but I can't just, you know, give you a month. I'll give you two weeks. And if there's something you want, then we'll give you permission to move as the offensive coordinator.

Because I was under contract. And, you know, Arizona had a position as offensive coordinator, Gruden in Tampa. I knew if I went back to work with John, though, it was going to be like I was back on his couch. Right. But then Parcells had taken that Dallas job. And I think the curveball for the Giants was the fact that it was a divisional. team. And I'll never forget this, and you know this man. So that call comes the next day,

and it's permission from the Cowboys. And now it's a little different story. Jim's kind of, now I'm not in the meeting, but there goes Ernie, of coursey, John Mara, Wellington Mara, into meet with Jim. And my office sits right next to Jim. And Jim, when I say Jim is the late Jim Fossil, he was our head coach, and he gave me my first chance to be a coordinator. And we lost him a few years ago. Of course, his son is still coached in this league. So that meeting ends and Ernie comes in and closes the door and he said, hey, he said, congrats on this next opportunity. I said, what happened? He said, we're going to give you permission. And I said, what took place? And he said, well, there was some back and forth about whether they would or not. And then Wellington Mara said,

when you guys gave him permission, was there any condition? And the answer was no. And then Wellington simply said, then we're going to give them permission. And so that year, though, relative to, you know, you lose a parent, when you lose your second parent, you technically kind of become an orphan. I mean, there is that like, all right, who's hosting Thanksgiving? Where's home base? That, you know, that counter is gone. And then from a career standpoint professionally, you know, you'd take a punch in the gut relative

And the team really began to play better, you know, offensively. Right, right, right. You know, and so it was like, man. You question yourself, yeah. That's where, like, is difficult and is challenging of moments. We have a ton of them, and we're still going to have more. They're just not going to break us. So I love the name of your gym.

And we're talking about the same subject. We're not talking about talent right now. All great. We're not talking about height, weight, size, speed right now. We're not talking about opportunity because someone, Sometimes we can't control that. We're talking about the one topic that you embrace, that when people ask me all the time, I get that from a lot of young coaches or young athletes.

I mean, I was just back on my campus at Eastern Illinois this weekend with Mike Shanahan, Tony Romo and Jimmy Garoppolo. They had a big, first time the four of us were back at Eastern Illinois. And we had about seven of these kind of fireside chats sitting on stools with moderators asking us questions from students, from locals. and the topic keeps coming back. And the tough thing now, and there's a balance here with the transfer portal, right? There's a balance with NIL.

And so, but, man, currently, there are a lot of exit doors for athletes if they want to utilize them. And I actually think that's going to help us at the NFL level. And see who's going to stand there and take it and fight back. Michael George, from high school basketball who fought away back, right? The guys who get benched.

I'm going to come back, yeah. And I look, the student athlete transferring, I think, is very healthy. I'm not talking about that. But when you start seeing four stops along the way, two different NIL payments, it's just going to help us reveal this trait that we're looking for. Because I think you can develop it. I think you can work on it. But I think there's a higher degree of it with certain people that we get attracted to

and we feel like their chances of success then at this level, greater. Well, Sean Payne, man, I appreciate you, dude. I told you we're going to go 30. We went about an hour. But that's what happens with you and I, because we both, we don't have ADD. We have LMNOP. We're so far beyond it.

Brother, thank you so much for winning us in Emmy last year. I really appreciate it. And, man, I really appreciate all the kind of things about Rosie also, dude. You know, man, we go back a long way. As you could see by this first game ball that he presented me with, which I didn't do shit except for break the story. All right. So I have one last story.

And I told you this before we went on air. So right now, I've never had an office at home. My only office is the office where there's no place at home to put stuff. And that's fine. So it's always in a closet, in a bag. I'm not like, all, like, pretty cool stuff is just in a closet. And so my wife was, what do you want to do with these different game balls? And like all of them are flat or they need air.

And they just need some attention, right? And then maybe a shelf. So she's kind of putting this stuff. together and you know you know you just open a closet up and then the next thing you know two hours later you've gotten why did i get involved in this and so now i'm looking at the balls and i kept saying to her where's the giants jet's game ball she's like you don't have it because it's nowhere to be found i said i know i have it it's in here somewhere it's the first one i ever got and so when you turned on this screen i'm like i've been yelling out her about this game ball

God. Well, I'll call Skyleigh later and apologize. Yeah, leave that ball where it is. Right there. John, appreciate you, brother. Thank you, brother. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. People are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential.

Either way, the podcast's superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games.

This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the IHare radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.