The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Week 1 of College Football, Khalil Mack dealt to the Bears,and Jim Harbaugh's Michigan

Episode Date: September 3, 2018

Doug Gottlieb fills in for Colin and thinks Raiders head coach Jon Gruden did a great job trading Khalil Mack for 2 first round picks. He argues people are overreacting to Michigan losing to Notre Dame and why Jim Harbaugh won't be going anywhere. Doug talks to Danny Kanell from CBS Sports to find out if Michigan can recover from their week 1 loss and still make the College Football Playoff.  Guests Include: Danny Kanell, Clay Travis, and Nick Baumgardner Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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What up, Doug Gottlieb, in for Colin. Happy Labor Day to you. Hope you and yours are enjoying for some last weekend of summer, first weekend of football. Welcome in, wherever you may be, however you may be making it as part of your day. Thanks so much. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

Collins off today. We'll be back tomorrow. And we have NFL game week to discuss. Long time friend of the show, friend of Collins and mine, Danny Connell, football analyst for CBS Sports and Sirius XM host, of former Florida State quarterback. Get us ready for the Knowles tonight. We'll see DeAndre Francois 2.0 coming off the torn ACL suffered last year early in the season. We'll talk some Knowles. We'll talk some Michigan, some Ohio State.

And LSU seems to have quality or at least competent, quote. quarterback play. Could this be the year for the Tigers? Oh, yeah, by the way, we'll talk about Grumpy Nick Sabin. All of that to get to upcoming in the next 15 minutes. In the meantime, let's get to what I think is still the biggest story in sports, the biggest story in the NFL. Kaleel Mack, star linebacker, formerly of the Oakland Raiders,

is now a member of the Chicago Bears. And remember, the Bears drafted the best college linebacker in Roquan Smith, who held out a little bit for some. language in his contract, Rokon Smith gets the team with Khalil Mack, who's a dynamic pass rusher. And as America and, of course, Twitter America absolutely freak out.

We have to take a breath and pause and understand that this is no different than the make-me-move price. Anybody ever been on Zillow.com? Okay, Zillow.com is a real estate web website. There's others. There's Trulia. There's Redfin. There's, of course, realtor.com. And Zillow has two different features. One is called the Zestimate. That's where your house gets an estimate based upon what's seen as comps. Some are comparable. Some are not.

The other thing they have is they have something called the make me move price. In other words, you can list your house and say, look, my house is worth $400,000. But if you want to pay me $600,000, it's all yours. It's the make-me-move price. And that's essentially what happened with the Raiders and Khalil Mack. Look, there's a bunch of things that go to it, right? There's the idea that the Raiders mismanage their cap in the off-season. The Raiders also carry the baggage of having overpaid Nomdi OsamaWi back in the day.

There's John Gruden thinking, hey man, I've been sitting here watching the league for 10 years and two guys that chew up too much of the salary cap, that doesn't work. Von Miller and Domiton Su, they set the market before, and the dolphins couldn't make it work. And the Broncos haven't been as good either because you can't put a good enough team around them. And then there's Khalil Mack who waited and waited and waited and understood that his value kept going up, especially when the Aaron Donald contract came by. So the Raiders listed their house or listed Khalil Mack,

make me move. Hey, dude, you want to give me two first round picks? Give us a call. And the Bears picked up the phone and agreed to the making move price. And yeah, the Bears get a second round pick and return and the Raiders get a third round pick. So essentially next year they flopped. The Raiders get the Bears third and the Bears get the Raiders second. But the Raiders, the Raiders,

now have two first round picks next year, two first round picks the following year. And, oh, yeah, by the way, as much as Khalil Mack is a dynamic player, is anyone picking the Bears now to win their division or even come in second that division with the Vikings and the Packers? And, oh, yeah, by the way, the Lions don't exactly suck and they're better at quarterback. So it's not just that they're getting two first round picks. You're not getting a low first round pick from the Bears this year. You're getting a high. There are no lottery protected picks in the national football. they set a ridiculously high price and congrats to the bears they had the they had the cap space they had the cash on hand they had the 90 million dollars guaranteed to get it done

and so what happens is we get all wrapped up in emotions you may not like john gruden because he hadn't been in the league for 10 years you're right to question john gruden the trade from artavis brian who they cut over the weekend they traded for a third round pick the draft picks, they took a lot of chance, a lot of risk in the, in the, in the NFL draft. They overspent. They didn't have cash on hand. The Raiders are cash poor. Like, you can question all of those things. But if you just ask yourself as a non-quarterback worth two first round draft picks, everyone in the NFL would say like, no, nobody's worth that. We all have a price. The bear's overpaid for a guy that they know is awesome, has never been hurt. And they're

going to get him in the prime of his career. And they don't have a signature guy that they have to that they have had to pay. They don't have to pay Mitch Trubisky yet for another two years in terms of until new money starts. So while it's easy to freak out and say John Gruden doesn't know what he's doing, they've made mistakes. I don't think they're in great shape in the short term. But in the long term, long term play, it works. For the Bears, short term play, it works.

Long term play, probably will work out as more defensive players are going to be getting paid and they don't have to pay Trubisky. and if they nailed the Trubisky pick, they're going to be just fine. Here's John Gruden yesterday as to why the trade took place. Aaron Donald got signed. They're not, they don't have a quarterback that has been redone yet. I think the Bears made this trade. Trubisky's still on his rookie deal.

It's tough when you have two players that are the highest paid, arguably, are close to the highest paid at their positions. So the economic part of it certainly weighs in. We've got free agents on our team that are going to be to be next year. We've got to find a way to bring them back. So you got a field of 53-man roster, and there are some implications of having two players making that much money. That's no mystery to anybody. There is a pie.

I talked about this on Collins last week on Thursday. There's a pie. And dude comes in and be like, man, you worked hard. You've done everything right. Go get yourself a piece of pie. And when you get a piece that's bigger than everybody, when you get two pieces that are bigger than everybody, else's piece. All of a sudden, somebody's going to, somebody's down some pie.

So you may not like it. You're a Raiders fan. You may think the sky is falling. And of course, you're taking on the Rams that seemingly have, seem to have more pie than everybody else. Don't worry. The Rams day is coming. Rams are going all in on this year.

The Raiders are like, I don't think are winning this year. We got to rebuild this thing. We got to rebuild it to win over the long term. We got our quarterback. Let's fill out the entire defense. defense. We all operate like there's this blank slate. Every team has a blank slate every year. That's not the case. We do this with LeBron James going to the Lakers. Why did they add Rondo and Lance Stevenson like, look, there's not a ton of great free agents to land and some guys don't want

to take one year contracts. So what you inherit, what you have, you had the Lewaldane contract that they had to stretch. they had cap space for two max players. Instead of wasting it on a guy who wasn't a max player, they spent it on veterans over one-year deals. Another deal for Contavius Caldwell Pope, a deal for Rajan Rondo, a deal for Lance Stevenson, a deal for Javelle McGee.

If the world occurred in a vacuum, those wouldn't be the players that you want to employ with LeBron James. But considering the context of this year, and trying to stay fluid for years to come so that you have cap space so you can go out and get a Kawhide Leonard, a Clay Thompson, and Kevin Durant next offseason, that's what the Lakers were able to do. And considering the constraints of the salary cap,

they did the best they could. That's the exact same thing with the Raiders. The flaw to the Raiders was they didn't know or didn't feel like the Aaron Donald money would ever come through. Or they undersold what the actual final number would do. nobody will ever go to $90 million until they did. Nobody will ever offer his two first round draft picks until they did. I mean, look, the Steelers are sitting there.

Levyon Bell has not and will not report today to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Steelers general manager Kevin Colbert just put out a statement like, hey man, can't wait until he gets here. We're going to proceed as if he's not playing for us this weekend. But the Steelers gave Antonio Brown huge money. Highest paid at his position at the time. Levyon Bell wants the same money for. running back.

Meanwhile, the Steelers, once they lost Ryan Shazier, their team suffered dramatically. There's a big pie. And though the size of the pie continues to increase, so too do the salaries. And you got 53 dudes, 46 on a Sunday. You got to fill out. You got to have a quarterback, the most valuable and the guys that last the longest. You got to have talent wide receivers. Oh, yeah, by the way, you got to have an offensive line.

You got to have guys to get after the quarterback and guys to play the defensive backfield. There's a lot of stuff there. So I'm not sitting here killing Gruden. I'm telling you how the trade took place. What screws it up is we all get emotionally tied to a Cleo Mac, and we all realize the Raiders didn't draft particularly well this year. But if the hit rate is 50%, two out of their next four first round draft picks should be really good players. Will they ever be Cleo Mac? No.

But they'll be under rookie deals, and you'll be able to fill out the rest of your roster. And for the Bears that did not have a signature player that are playing in a division against at least two, and maybe we'll throw Kirk Cousins in their three Pro Bowl caliber quarterbacks. You better get somebody gets after the quarterback. And they got that and they had the salary room because they did not carry the burden of a quarterback that makes top, top dollar. It kind of makes sense. This is the sport. This is the magic to it.

This is what continues to impress you about Tom Brady and the Patriots. It's like, they don't have anybody. who's one of the top paid guys in their position. Yet they still find a way to throw out a winner year after year. Overpaying guys, even though they deserve to be overpaid at individual positions on defense is what led to the downfall of the Seahawks.

It's what shortened the two runs of the Ravens. And what's going to be really interesting about the Rams in the upcoming off season. In the meantime, Rams got dudes, Raiders seem to be playing with. for the future. All right, coming up next. Danny Cannell from CBS Sports to join us. Many people point out Jim Harbaugh's 8 and 8 record over the last 16 games as a sign that Harbaugh stinks why Michigan was right to hire him and would do it again six days a week

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Family assets protect both. Simplysafe.com slash H-E-R-D. Doug Gottlieb. This is the HARD. Fox Sports Radio, the I-Heart Radio app. Hey, do yourself a favor. I had a great long conversation with Jay Billis from ESPN. And if you download the All Ball podcast, that's in the Hurd podcast network,

I think you'll enjoy. It's two parts. We dropped part one last week, last Friday, still up there, and we'll drop part two at some point in time this week. So Jay Billis and I just chop it up. And we're not talking about, we're not breaking down Duke's roster, you know, or this year's top 20. It's more his life, his basketball philosophies, our thoughts on the sport, the growth of the sport, just a bunch of other stuff. Things that you didn't know about Coach Kay, playing against Michael Jordan in college, playing against Ralph Samson, three-time college player the year in college. all that all ball podcast on the herd podcast network.

Danny Cannell is a football analyst for CBS sports. He's got this show called Off the Bench with my guy, Rajah Bell. You can check it out live every day on CBS HQ or download that podcast. He joins us now on the herd. Let's start. Let's kind of work backwards. Last night, LSU absolutely wallops Miami. And of course, the U before the end of last season, people were saying with Mark Rick,

it is back. But to me, it was about LSU's competent quarterback play in an offense that everybody had finally figured it was on the same wavelength as opposed to last year with Matt Canada. What's your takeaway from LSU whooping up on Miami? So what's up, Doug? Happy Labor Day, man. I was watching that game, and I was nervous for Miami in that game,

because LSU has been kind of beaten down this offseason, and a lot of people predicting a rough year for them, and Ed O's Ron could be on the hot seat, but they still have just some absolute dudes on the defensive ball. And you saw that showcase last night. And to be honest, I was worried about Joe Burrow, you know, being a transfer coming from Ohio State, you just don't know how quickly a guy is going to be comfortable in a system. Is he going to be able to execute it? And at what level is he going to be able to execute it?

And I thought Joe Burrow, more than the stat line, because it wasn't, it looked like a typical LSU quarterback stat line. He was 11 of 24 for 140 yards, no touchdowns, no interceptions. But they did find a running back. And more importantly, I thought their defense set a tone. But as, you know, the story has to be about LSU winning. I do think this does present some very serious question marks for the Miami Hurricanes. Mark Rick, last year was, you know, supposedly they're coming out party. They come out, they have a big year.

And then they did lose the last three games of the season, including an awful game at Pitt, which was a game they should have won. There's no harm in losing the Clemson, no harm in losing an Orange Bowl to Wisconsin. But you did kind of feel like, hey, if they want to be considered back, they needed to win that game last night. And to me, they did not match the physicality of LSU. And I also think they have a problem at quarterback with Malik Rozier. And I think you're going to see Nicosie Perry, a younger quarterback who was suspended for the game for violating team rules.

I think you're going to see him sooner rather than later at quarterback from Miami. You talked about Joe Burroughs, transferred from Ohio State, and look, I watched Ohio State play. Their defensive line is phenomenal. But, I mean, the difference there is they also have really good quarterback play with Haskins this year. Was J.T. Barrett just the greatest practice player ever? Like, how did he keep his job?

I mean, like, look, he made some plays in some big moments. But every time they showed limitations, it was J.T. Barrett. They won the National Championship when he was hurt. Like was he just the greatest practice player ever? How did he keep his job so long? I'll tell you how he kept his job. You know, the one thing we learned about Urban Meyer through this, you know, ugly situation with Zach Smith,

he's loyal to a fault. Like he kept around a wide receiver coach, you know, and brought him with him to Ohio State. He's never fired an assistant coach that's been the big headline you've seen until he fired Zach Smith. He's loyal to a fault. And I think that probably is why you saw J.C. Barrett at the helm for so long

because Urban Meyer rewards players who are leaders. And J.T. Barrett was a good quarterback. But I did think at Hamstrung the Ohio State offense, and now that the reins are off, I think you see some of the top tier potential with the Dwayne Haskins, who really did shine. And he was impressive last year when he'd come in and limit to duty. But I think Urban Meyer was loyal to his fault,

not only was coaching staff, which, you know, cost him a lot of his reputation, but also to his players on the field. And that can be a good thing. Like, that does send a message to the locker room. But it can also be the detriment and can hold you back a little bit offensively. But, man, those rains are, they're gone now on that offense because this is going to be a high-powered fun team to watch play. Danny Cannell joining us from CBS Sports in the herd. Doug Gottlie pulling in for Colin.

It's easy to take shots. Jim Harbaugh being eight and eight last 16 games. Some of that lacks context, not just in how close the games are, but last year playing with second and third string quarterbacks. But look, my working philosophy on this Michigan thing was, Rich Rodriguez, was a terrible fit. The Lloyd Carr people hated him. He didn't recruit. He didn't fit there. Then they bring in a coaching staff that's better

in recruiting, but they weren't good enough in terms of actual coaching. Harbaugh is a dynamic coach and showed himself to be a dynamic recruiter. And we all thought that once he gets the right quarterback, it'll hit. Shea Patterson's a little bit different than the style of quarterback that

he's always kind of wanted in terms of his athleticism ability to make plays. But I'm not as down on Harbaugh as everybody else. Like I think the story was really Notre Dame's defensive line against Michigan's O line and maybe Michigan not having a playmaker

outside the numbers, more so than it is Jim Harbaugh's lost control and Michigan is bound for disaster season. You watch the game with a completely different eye than most civilians. What's your takeaway?

Doug, I love your take because it's a reasonable, rational take, but that's not what Michigan fans are and most fan bases aren't. I'm not just slamming Michigan fans, but I think there is

sense of panic around Ann Arbor. I put out a tweet the other day about what happened in 2014. Ohio State, week two, I believe it was. They lost to Virginia Tech at home. And there was a lot of people up in arms. Oh, my gosh, Ohio State's going to derail. They bounced back. They won the national championship by, you know, started with beating Bama and the

Sugar Bowl and the rest of its history. I could easily see Michigan bouncing back. I think we're sleeping on Notre Dame a little bit. This Notre Dame team has talent on it. And they came in kind of flying under the radar that's, soft season, which is kind of crazy when you think about the rich tradition of Notre Dame, but I think people were sleeping on them a little bit. And it was in their house, it was in South Bend, and you had a chance to tie the game in the fourth quarter. Like, I get that your expectation

is to win those types of game, but I would not jump off the ship just yet if you're a Michigan fan. Again, like I was talking about with Joe Burrow, it's tough to transfer and walk in your program. Yeah, listen. Listen, dude, I transferred. I sat out of junior college, and then I I remember my first game at Oklahoma State, and you are so, you're just your hair's on fire because you want to prove to everybody how good you want to prove to your new teammates, you want to prove their fans, and you want to win the game, and you're on the road. And like, look, if context actually matters, Notre Dame did nothing to move the ball in the second half. Zero.

Nothing to move the ball. Shea Patterson was cramping up, right? And the only thing that disappoints me is I know they lost their top wide receiving talent to a broken foot. Didn't play 10 games last year. it did not seem like they had any real playmakers, enough playmakers to just go up and make a play. It was Shea Patterson had to make some plays and more so than any. That would that be the one,

that in the offensive line seemed problematic against what I would agree with you. Defensively, especially defensive line, Notre Dame underrated. Totally agree. They've got to have somebody step up. And Tariq Black is the guy your reference and the receiver was out, but they need somebody to step up and make big plays. It can't be all on Shea Patterson. I am curious to see what Harbaugh does offensively.

Does he adjust? Does he start to utilize some play calling that would fit Shay Patterson's skills a little bit better? Because yes, he's got a dynamic arm, but he's also more athletic than Harbaugh's had in the past, especially if you compare him to some of these QBs that he's had at Michigan. You know, I mean, Wilton's State was a statue in the pocket. You know, John O'Corn, Jake Ruddock, those guys are prototypical big 6-4-6-5 quarterbacks who can't run.

Shea Patterson is elusive. So is he going to change and try to adjust to that? Because if he doesn't, it could be, you know, trying to fit a round peg in a square hole. And that's where the best coaches, and this is what Jim Harbaugh wants to be considered. The best coach is adjusting to work for their talent. And if he doesn't, I think it could be a long year for Michigan.

But if he does, I think they'll be fine. There's still plenty of opportunity for Michigan to kind of get back in the hunt and still make the playoffs. I mean, they're playing at a tough division. They've got opportunity. now it's up for them to go do it. But Harbaugh's got to galvanize his team right now when everybody's kicking them when they're down.

All right, what's that with Sabin? I have my own thoughts on Sabin. I guess he called Maria Taylor to apologize for being Nick Saban. Of course he did in private. Of course he did in private. You know why? Because he doesn't want to lose his intimidation factor

over a lot of media who were scared to ask him the tough questions. And because he shouts him down, I thought it was a really bad look for Sabin. Maria is a friend of mine, and that's not even why I'm saying it was a bad look. she asked the perfect question. She said, what have you learned after watching your two quarterbacks play tonight?

She didn't ask him who's starting next week. That would have annoyed me if I was saving. If you would have said, who are you going to start next week? She just asked for an evaluation, and he flipped out, and I get that he's been getting this question a lot. I get that. I understand that. But he's the one playing games.

Why don't just say it's Tua's job? Everybody and their brother who knows an ounce about football, and probably those who don't watch any football, can see that Tua is the better quarterback. for that team. So just come out and say it. Like the games and the back and forth and trying to keep everybody happy, it's just, it's kind of getting old. And I think the way he treats the media is old as well. But it wasn't a surprise to me at all that he did apologize privately because he doesn't want to be a jerk to somebody he's going to have to work with a lot more times because Maria's going to have to cover a lot more of their games. But I think he could have done a better job

of handling a publicly. I think, right? Like, listen, I, and I, look, I think the reason that he's not, he hasn't done it. It's all about, not just about potentially losing Jalen, but Jalen coming from Texas, dad being a high school coach. Like, there's a lot to it. Like, you can lose an entire area if you lose a kid. You know that really well. And the same thing

with Tua, like they're going to get Tua's brother. And like right now, all of Hawaii wants to, you know, like, well, I'd go to Alabama. Why not? It's a plane right away. It's all just a plane right away. And so you got to kind of be cautious about it. My issue with it was like, dude that's why you get paid all this money you get paid to take a deep breath and the smile

and say nothing right that's that's that you get paid for you know exactly what what we learn i got two great quarterbacks i guess that i got two great ones you know jail made some plays two made some plays man am i happy thanks so much for coming one and oh feels good against a really well coached really well coached louisville team right i just absolutely i just i i think there could be a situation where you could appease everybody yep because of the new redshirt rule. You could play Jalen Hertz in four games. Maybe last night was an opportunity for him to see and you kind of, you had an insurance backup plan, but because Tua looked apart, looked like he can handle being a starter, now you sit Jalen against Arkansas State. Then they go on the road to

Ole Miss. You can kind of see how it goes. But see, this is what's frustrating to me is when Jaylon Hertz comes out at the media day before the season and says, I don't know what's going on, then I have a problem with it because you owe that to Jalen Hertz. And I'm not saying every single player deserves to have a sit down with a coach. I mean, competition is a part of the sport, but you're talking about a player in Jalen, who was the former SEC player of the year, who took the team to the championship game last year. He deserves to have a conversation and kind of be in the know and help him create a plan for him moving forward. And maybe if you're honest with it, maybe Jalen Hurts says, you know what, I'm content being on this team, being a backup,

and being an insurance plan, and helping this team win championship. And worst case, maybe that plan is, hey, you play four games, and then we can help you transfer somebody else, or somewhere else. But that's what frustrates me. Like, there should be more conversation in place. And from the media's perspective, who cares, who it goes on between? But Nick Saban should be talking to Jalen Hurts and coming up with that plan with him. Yeah, look, the other side to it is like, yeah, I look back on my own career and I think had I just gone in and asked and had honest conversation.

It's one of those like, do you expect them to call? Now, if they called him in and he meets with, Sabin and Sabin told him nothing, you know? That's one thing. But if he avoids the office, like, I ain't going in there. He wants me in there. Like, it does kind of work both ways. Like, sometimes guys don't ask questions because they don't want to know the answer

because they actually know the answer before they ask the question. You know what I mean? Right. Right. That is true. And that's one thing where I think it's tough because he's had three different coordinators. So where is his, because he had Lane Kiff in his freshman year.

He had Brian Daibol last year. And now he's got his third offensive coordinator. so it's hard to develop really good relationships with a coaching staff when there's a revolving door on the offense. And it would be intimidating. Like I'm in there saying, hey, you should go into Nick Saban's office. You see the way he choose out people. You see the way he goes after Maria Taylor. Like, it's intimidating.

So it is tough for a 19, 20-year-old kid to expect him and have a grown-up conversation with Nick Saban. But I do think that's where Saban should call him in the office and see that opportunity to say, hey, let me open a lot of communication so we can get everybody on the same page. was the loss for Washington. Not bad at all, Doug. Here's the thing, because I thought going into that game, a lot of the conversation nationally was, oh, Washington has the weight of the Pact 12 on their shoulders. And if they lose this game, they're done in the playoffs. After watching the game, I think we forget a little important part. It matters how they looked in the game. And they looked more than capable of handling their own against Auburn. And you get a couple calls, you know, the roughing the passer on Jake Browning, which was not called, which was pretty obvious to me,

it was a targeting penalty in today's game, the way they call it. So I thought Washington, if they can still win the PAC 12, I think that is a resume builder, even though it's a loss. And let me ask you a quick question. How do you think that game plays out if they switch it to say, I don't know, CenturyLink Stadium in Seattle, which would be a, you know, and call that a neutral site, even though it's not Washington's home game, it's right in their backyard. That's essentially the environment that Washington was playing on.

So I hope the committee is smart enough to realize, hey, this is. Washington team more than held their own on the road. Let's stop calling it a neutral game because it wasn't in a hostile environment with a chance to win in the fourth quarter. I think that should matter. So I hope people don't write off Washington. No question. And look, as much success as the SEC had, the furthest the SEC traveled out of it is, what, Dallas, right? I mean, so, so it's like the SEC in going up to play, you know, going on the road to play the Big 12 and True Road games. They're not going to play the Big Ten. The Big Ten and SEC did not play. They're not going out to play the Pac-12 at least this weekend.

So we do have to have context that they're like, we'll play anybody as long as you play them in our kind of neck, of the woods. Let me ask you about Oklahoma, that you lose a Baker Mayfield and you play against Florida Atlantic, who's at a completely lower level. But Kyler Murray does look electric. He's faster and maybe has a liver, though much less accurate arm than Baker Mayfield.

Your thoughts on watching OU against inferior competition? It's too early to tell. It really is. FAU, you know, it's a good team. It was a great story. The lane train was rolling in Boca Raton, but they're still, I mean, they were completely overmatched on that. There's a reason they were a three touchdown underdog.

But still, I do think you've got to be pleased if you're Lincoln Riley. And I look at the Big 12 and just see a conference that it's really them and the ACC really, you know, it's Oklahoma and then it's everybody else. West Virginia, West Virginia. That's right. I forgot about West Virginia. Although I still, you know, the Tennessee win. was a pretty good win, but I still need to see them defensively.

Like if they matched up tomorrow against West Virginia, I think Oklahoma is probably a two-touchdown favorite and probably covers that. So I still think they're in a class by themselves, but you saw Texas lose. Oklahoma State won, but they're replacing the quarterback. I have a lot of faith in Lincoln Riley and his offensive system. And if you continue to get the type of performance out of Kyler Murray that you saw last night, look out the rest of the Big 12 and just put Oklahoma back in the, you know,

playoff because I really do. It's a plug-in-play system, and I know it's not easy to replace the Heisman's trophy winner and the number one overall pick, but Kyler Murray is more than comfortable. And like you were talking about, the athleticism, I think Lincoln Riley utilizes that and develop some play calls, like

you saw just a small glimpse of versus FAU. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. People in Ann Arbor freaking out. Meanwhile, Penn State needs overtime to survive App State. Michigan State needs a late drive to survive Utah State. Nobody talking about that nationally because of the hardball thing. Danny Cannell, check out his football analysis on CBS Sports HQ with Rajabell

every day at 7 a.m. Great to catch up on the phone. Let's catch up in person very soon. And good luck to your Knowles tonight. Appreciate it, man. All the best. Have a good Labor Day. All right, DeAndre Francois, back for the Knowles. If you watch DeAndre Francois two years ago as a true freshman, you two should be excited. Speaking of college football, watching Alabama this weekend reminded me of something we will see. I'll get to that in a second. First, let's get the herd line news. No, no, no, no, no. Turn on the news.

This is the herd line news. Big time newsman. Ryan Music, what do you got, Ryan? Well, Doug, great weekend of college football. You touched on a ton of it with Danny Cannell there. Let's get one more in here. One game kind of flying under the radar because it was technically between two unranked teams was Cincinnati, UCLA. Chip Kelly era getting started on the wrong foot, though, as they actually lost to Cincinnati, 26 to 17. What did you see from UCLA and Chip Kelly in this first game back? It's one of those. Look, you get a pass because it's your first season. What you're inheriting.

You know, remember you're replacing a quarterback, although hurt, you are, you know, you're replacing a Josh Rosen who's an elite town at quarterback with a guy who Michigan couldn't wait to get rid of. So what's more interesting is Cincinnati, their dominance over UCLA. Beat them in basketball on the road, beat them in football on the road. Beatman football on the road. The Chip Kelly thing's going to be fascinating. For years, UCLA didn't have a football facility. They finally do. They play like an hour from campus in the Rose Bowl, so you don't have the natural kind of campus student rollout feel.

But man, you lose that first game. I still think the Chip Kelly experiment ultimately will work because UCLA says they're going all in on football, not just spending-wise, but also will they allow guys to get into school? They didn't previously allow. but it ain't easy to turn things around just in a heartbeat considering how destitute they were at the end of the Jimora run. Let's turn our attention to the NFL, Doug.

This just in, the Eagles have finally officially named their starting quarterback for week one. Nick Foles is your starter. Super Bowl MVP Nick Foles, who I know you're a huge fan of, Doug. People are like, oh, you're killing Nick Foles last week. By the way, just real quick on UCLA, Dorian Thompson Robinson should have been the starter anyway, but regardless, they were up 10-0 and Cincinnati comes behind starting a true freshman quarterback and your first year, you'll get a pass.

Okay, so, to Nick Foles. My issue with Nick Foles is not just that he's playing poorly and that you've lost some of that offensive staff and you've lost Alshan Jeffrey, not going to play week one in the season. It's also now he carries the kind of burden and weight of playing the best football game of his life in the biggest football game of his life. And I just think he played above his level.

Now he's playing against the Falcons team in week one that probably should have or definitely could have beat them at the link in the playoffs last year. And Falcons are really, really good. Like they're the team we're not talking enough about. They beat the Rams on the road last year and should have beat the Eagles on the road last year. I don't have a ton of faith in Nick,

even though I like him as a guy, because his confidence goes up and goes down and he's looked like a quarterback who seems overwhelmed with the playbook and with an offensive line that's not great and without Alshan Jeffrey. I think they can't wait for Carson Wentz to get back for a reason.

And one little interesting note here that was revealed by Doug Peterson when he made the announcement wasn't just that like, hey, we're waiting for Carson Wentz to get ready. He actually said Carson Wentz has not been medically cleared for contact yet. So he's not even ready to actually play

a real football game, which is what Eagle fans were worried about after that injury late last season. And he shouldn't. There's no rush. There's absolutely no rush. The Patriots don't believe the season starts until after week four, neither should the Eagles. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Hurd Lie News.

Tip Kelly lost only seven combined games during his successful run with the Oregon Ducks. That's kind of remarkable. I was mentioning this before. Alabama reminds me of somebody in basketball. Sure who that is with you next in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeard Radio app. Doug Ghaly been for calling. This is The Herd. Clay travels, join us next hour. Clay's been killing John Harbaugh.

Jim Harbaugh, excuse me. Probably John Harbaugh as well. And Ma and Pa Harbaugh. Clay Travis outkick the coverage, the morning show on Fox Sports Radio. He'll join us. Also, you can see him on the new TV show, Lock It In. we'll see how his picks went week one of the season. As part of the deal now, right? Like Clay killing people over their picks and over their numbers. Now all of a sudden, dude, you're putting a TV show daily putting your bets out there. We'll see how that works out. We'll get you ready for this upcoming NFL season. Fascinating reaction to the Cleo Mac trade.

Lavin Bell still holding out, not showing up. What would the reaction be like if the Steelers traded Laveon Bell for two first-round picks today? I think it'd be amazing for the Steelers. For the Steelers. But nobody's given up, like, oh, nobody's giving up to the first round picks for a 27-year-old running back who might be the best in the sport. Why aren't we saying the same thing about Cleo Mac? Obviously, his values higher because of his age, his position, and the fact that you don't, seemingly don't fade as much from that position. But who has a greater impact on the game?

Clay Travis next hour, we'll also take it to Michigan later on. in the show. We got NFL football in three days. Three days. Do you do that thing where you count the day you're in? I don't. That's like the old back when you used to have to ask directions. This is a hard one for millennials.

You used to actually have to either have a Thomas Brothers guide or have some traditional map or stop and ask somebody. Hey, how do I get to Jimmy's restaurant? You go like, you go up with six lights and you take a right. And the big question is you pull away was, do I count the first light? All right. I'm at the corner.

Do I count this one or is this light zero? Nobody does light zero. Do they? Anyway. So we are three days away. And actually, if you really want to get down from it, less than three days away.

Isn't it? Because tomorrow's another day, Tuesday, Wednesday, then Thursday, but if Thursday is completed, that's the end of the day. Point is, we're a couple of days away from NFL football. I was watching Alabama, and it's fascinating how Alabama is able to consistently do it, and others are not. Now, you could point out that last year, they, by your estimation, not winning their conference championship, not getting the conference championship game.

They should not have been in the conference. should not have been in the college football playoff, one that they won. And look, if that's your argument, if you want to go with, you have to win your conference championship, that's fine. I think that's obtuse to the realities of divisions that are not equal, schedules that are not equal, teams that are not equal, there is a certain eye test to it. But with so many of these teams struggling to find consistency, as good as Florida State had been for years, D'Andre Francois goes down, gets hurt, and suddenly,

the bottom falls out there. Whereas Ohio State with a third string quarterback wins the national championship. And Alabama with Jalen Hertz, who's an average quarterback, better running quarterback than throwing quarterback, and gets replaced. They're able to keep it going, compete for national championship year after year. I think the thing you find with the Ohio states and the Alabama's recruiting juggernauts is this is basically what Kentucky and Duke would look like if guys had to stay in school for more than a year. just the depth of quality recruits that they're able to get allows them to sustain success for longer than it is for other people. It comes in the same way. Clems in the same way.

But the hardest thing in college football is we're trying to, and this is the perfect example why it's hard at the end of the year is what happens to the start of the year. Was I impressed by Alabama? Yes. but let's remember Alabama played essentially a home game against a Louisville team who even with Lamar Jackson hadn't shown itself to being an elite top 20 in the country team and they lost Lamar Jackson who was far and away their best and most important player and so they couldn't compete with just the size veracity of both lines lines of scrimmage for Alabama they get worn down and beat up so some of it is Alabama's good some of it is

is from recruiting and just keep loading up with guys to where so does Kentucky and Duke and basketball. But those guys always go pro and college football. They can't go pro for at least three years. But also some of it is the quality of competition. The quality of competition. We got some for you on Cleolmac. We got some for you on Levion Bell.

What in the hell is Buffalo doing? It makes no sense, which makes complete sense with the Buffalo bills announcing that Nate Peterman is their starter. But coming up next, what Jim Harbaugh haters need to realize. It's very simple. Take a deep breath. It's next.

I'm Doug Gottliebint. This is the herd. Doug Gottliebintech been for Colin. This is the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening. Thanks so much for making it as part of your day. People are saying crazy things about this Khalil Mac trade.

Crazy things about this Kalil Mac trade. Crazy. We will reel them. back in, get you ready for a great night in college football and a great weekend in the National Football League. There is, look, there is a team out there that I don't necessarily love the long-term prognosis of them, but short-term, wow, seems like they got a lot of dudes. We'll get, we'll get to that. There is a little bit of basketball to talk about with the Lakers finally agreeing to a buyout of Luhald Dang, reading themselves of all. But I think they have like one guy

left from the Mitch Cupchak era that cleared out $38 million in salary cap space for next season. Remember, Kauai, free agent, KD, free agent, Jimmy Butler, free agent, Clay Thompson, free agent, dad, the voice of the Lakers, former Laker. Clay grew up in Orange, Orange, county went to Santa Margarita high school. It all kind of makes sense there. All kind of makes sense. All right. Enough about basketball. Let's talk football.

So in the, in the, if you're a hater, you are going to have a great night and a terrible night all at the same time, right? Like if you're a hater, there's things that everyone seems to hate of the hater variety. You know, like, does that make any sense? Yeah, it does. Haters hate Duke basketball. They just do. They just hate all things Duke basketball.

Haters will either hate LeBron or KD. You could maybe pick Kobe Bryant as well. Again, it doesn't mean that you cannot like those guys, but you never give any sort of love, any sort of credit, even when it's absolutely due. And you simply hate on any kind of negativity. Look, a hater was waiting for Notre Dame to lose

or for Jim Harbaugh to lose. It was going to be a great night for the hater. The good thing about being a hater is you can hate on Notre Dame, but somehow if Michigan loses Notre Dame, you just gloss over your hatred for Notre Dame because you're like, man, I don't like Harbaugh. Okay. And the hater says, hey, Michigan paying Jim Harbaugh 9 million a year.

9 million a year. And he's 8 and 8 over his last 16. Let's, we can completely gloss over that he was 19 and 3 in his first, what was it, 22 games, right? Well, just kind of gloss. Pretend like that didn't happen. We can also forget that if you go back two seasons ago, they lost three games by a grand total of five points.

Three games by five points. Or that the disastrous end to last season was largely in part to the fact that they were playing with a backup and sometimes third string quarterback late in the year. correct but no no no the hater says Jim Harbaugh is overrated Jim Harbaugh should be fired he should be on the hot seat he'll go back to the NFL now look I don't know if it ultimately works out but it was absolutely the best decision Michigan has ever made when was the last time Michigan won a national championship in football anybody rhyme music um music is for people to know you 28 years old. I always make fun of how old you are.

26. 26 years old. Do you know when the last Michigan National Championship was? I think 1997? In football? Yeah? Yeah. What year is it right now?

2018. Yeah. A little bit. That was a bit ago, right? That was a bit ago. Now, Michigan will tell you, and rightfully so, I believe there's still the all-time winning his program. Some of that has helped out by the fact.

And they have a 729 win percentage. Michigan will sit there and go like, hey, dude, we got 11 national titles. You do realize that they have four between 1901 and 1904. Right? They have one national championship since 1948. One. They also have an unclaimed national title in 85,

and another one in 73. So we'll give them, we'll give them two in the modern era of football. Two since 1980. Two in the last 40 years. It's a great program. I'm not trying to diminish it. But they were nationally relevant in name only. And the best example of that is people look back glowingly at Lloyd Carr

because he did win a national championship. His last year at Michigan. His last year at Michigan, in 2007, they opened up with App State and lost. They opened up with App State and lost. Lost.

And they had Chad Henney. He was, I think, is he still in the NFL? The NFL caliber quarterback. Yeah, Jake Long is the number one overall pick. Like, they had a senior-laden team and they finished the season 8 and 4 and basically lost to App State and the three other good teams that they played.

And people look back and like, man, we got to get Lloyd Carr back. Then they had Rich Rod who didn't fit with Lloyd Carr, with Michigan, and didn't go out and recruit. Plus, they didn't get Terrell prior. Then they get Brady Hoke,

who does recruit better and did get them going for a short period of time. But they're, they just weren't any good. In a conference which has finally found the ability to go out and spend money and get high-level coaches, Michigan State's rolling, although they look very average this weekend. Penn State with James Franklin, rolling in recruiting. Obviously, Ohio State is rolling as well.

The league's more difficult. People have caught the Michigans of the world. They hadn't been truly nationally relevant in recruiting. And so what's your reason for hating Harbaugh? What is, is it, is it that he's goofy and spends the night at a recruits house or he takes his team to Florida or to Italy? Dude, that's all about recruiting. And for the most part, it's worked. What people who don't like Jim Harbaugh or think Harbaugh should be fired don't realize.

One, 15 million reasons he ain't going to be fired at the end of this season. Secondly, they're pretty good, and they'll probably win nine games anyway. Third, and this is most important, hiring an alum who's one in college, one in pros, played at Michigan, dad coached at Michigan, and has an insatiable desire for Michigan to win, is a smart hire for any program, and for Michigan considering their lack of national, true national relevance. it was a home run hire. A home run hire. This is the reason guys have massive contracts so that you don't freak out over one loss, over one quarterback depleted season.

I mean, look, they lost the Notre Dame. It was pretty good. I don't think Notre Dame's as good as they played in the first half. I mean, you kind of had a prayer touchdown and some calls go against Notre Dame. But Notre Dame is the offensive and defensive. lines are terrific. Defensive line, especially so.

A couple years ago, they probably compete for the national title, if not for mass wholesale injuries. But remember, two years ago, they won four games. Four. It's kind of hard. This thing is kind of hard to be consistent when you have inconsistent play at quarterback, and when you have the shuffling of guys going to

the league. Danny Cannell joined us last hour. He said this about this Michigan team. I put out a tweet the other day about what happened in 2014. Ohio State, week two, I believe it was, they lost to Virginia Tech at home. And there was a lot of people up in arms. Oh my gosh, Ohio

State's going to derail. They bounced back. They won the national championship. I started with beating Bama and the Sugar Bowl and the rest of its history. I could easily see Michigan bouncing back. I think we're sleeping on Notre Dame a little bit. I think we're sleeping on Notre Dame a little bit and I think we're overvaluing Penn State

that look really shaky against App State. Michigan State that look really shaky. against Utah State. Nebraska we haven't seen because we had two games, two major games canceled because of lightning, is that right? I think Ohio State's a real deal,

but Iowa State game was canceled, Nebraska game was canceled. I don't know if anything else was canceled because these lightning storms and because of how tightly packed these schedules are. I'm not sitting here telling you all is well, but I'm not freaking out about Jim Harbaugh in Michigan. considering a couple calls, a targeting call goes against them. Notre Dame hops out to a 14-0-0 lead.

Shea Patterson's in his first real football game at Michigan. Plus, he's cramping up, and their offensive line is getting mauled by a really good front seven from Notre Dame. To have the ball a chance to tie the game late in your first game of the year, I'm just not going to freak out. I've watched too much of this stuff to be that guy. and understand $15 million and it's his alma mater, you're not going anywhere.

If he wanted to leave, he could have left several times over. All right. Coming up next, gloom and doom predicted from my friend Clay Travis. He, I believe he called Jim Harbaugh, the most overrated coach in the history of college football. We'll argue. Plus, get you ready for tonight's college football game. And we'll see how his picks did.

that's upcoming next in the herd. Doug Gowley, in for Colin, this is the herd. You can hear my show following Collins weekdays, 3 to 6 Eastern Time, 12 to 3 Pacific. If you get up super early in the morning, 6 to 9 Eastern Time or 3 to 6 Pacific, you can hear our next guest, Clay Travis, who joins us.

And Clay, you're not alone. By the way, Clay hosts Outkick the Coverage, 6.9 a.m. Eastern Time on Fox Sports. and starting a week from today, lock it in on Fox Sports One. He'll be one of the co-co-co-co-co-host, right? There's what four of you on the show? Yeah, there's four. Rachel Beneta is the official host,

and then I am one of the three talking heads alongside Todd Furman and Cousin Sal from the Bill Simmons and the ringer. How'd your picks do this past weekend? Excellent. had an incredible week of the picks, went 10 and 2 on Thursday and Saturday. And then the only one that really kind of got me was I was totally stunned by the result of the LSU game. I thought that Miami would come out, play like their head was on fire. I mean, like they were just flying all over the place.

And instead, they got their ass kicked. And so that was, I thought, the most surprising outcome of the big games this past weekend. Yeah, I think the biggest difference was quarterback playing. wasn't it? I mean, of the two, I mean, first LSU hadn't had a quarterback in forever. And, you know, obviously Miami looks like they need to make a change at the quarterback position. There's a lot of other things that go into it. But LSU has been kind of the headless monster for years here. And it looks like Joe Burroughs finally a guy who's at least competent and maybe even more than that at quarterback. Yeah, I mean, he was 11 for 24. So it's not like he set the world on fire, but he looked very competent in a game management role.

What I always do in these big games is I look to see who could run the ball and who could stop the run. And that to me is the ultimate test because there can be all the offensive pyrs pro techniques you want. But ultimately, you have to be able to run the ball and you have to be able to stop the run. And I thought that's where LSU won the game. They were more effective running the football than Miami was. And in fact, if you go across almost every major game, you look at the overall running statistics and you don't even need to know the rest when it comes to big time top 25 matchups. You call Jim Harbaugh the most overrated coach in America or in college football history, which?

College football history. History. Okay. I mean, how far back are we going historically? And why is Harbaugh so overrated? Well, first of all, when I say history, I mean history that I remember, right? I mean, there might have been somebody in 1890 that was not very good, that everybody was in the law of with, but I'm talking about history that I remember.

Like Dennis Franchione, for example, right? Coach Fran won when at Pitt State, then like New Mexico, then TCU, he set the world of fire. Alabama, I think he actually had a 10-win season in Alabama, and then left went to A&M, and it just did not work. And I think to me, some of that is an indictment on A&M, more than indictment on Franchone. Give me your take on why Harbaugh is so overrated. Easy answers in terms of numbers. He's 9 and 9 in his last 18. He is 28 and 12 compared to 27 and 13, if you look at his comparisons to his predecessor, right, who everybody out there is like, Brady Hoke is awful. Man, we couldn't even handle him at all. Jim Harbaugh through 40 games is one game better. He is presently being paid as if he is Nick Sabin and as if he is Urban Meyer.

and the end results are not anywhere justifying that. Let me tell you that from a Ohio State perspective. So let's judge Jim Harbaugh compared to Urban Meyer. Urban Meyer for all of his faults. And I think there are a lot of faults we've talked about, obviously, surrounding Urban Meyer in the last month or so. He has lost eight total games in six years. Jim Harbaugh has lost nine games in his last 18.

Nick Sabin has not lost nine games since all the way back to 2011. if you are going to pay this guy on that level, then you need to have those kind of results. And what I have seen happen over and over again. Here's the mistake you're making, though, okay? This is, and football fans do this with their quarterbacks. They're like, man, I can't, like when Matt Stafford was the highest paid quarterback, you like, man, how can you pay Matt Stafford?

Like a lot of it, there's other, there's all these other factors, right? First of all, Harbaugh's not actually paid as much as people think he's being paid. It's the first thing. Like, let's just, okay, if you want, if it comes down to, to money, which I do believe he's worth every penny. But if it comes down to money, four million of his contract is in a life insurance policy. And if you know how those things work, you only had to put in a fraction of the money. And then after five years, it becomes an investment vehicle. And a lot of coaches are doing this. So it's not, he doesn't actually make nine a year.

It's really five. And then I think they put a couple hundred grand in these life insurance policies, which becomes a financial vehicle. So he's actually paid far less than you think. Secondly, that could happen everywhere, though, right? Okay, but I know it happens in Michigan because it's a public school and these have been, these have been published. Right, but if you get into how you're going to pay someone, then you're basically just making arguments about accounting tricks because, right, like there's always these arguments about who produces the most revenue and so people are like, oh, Texas A&M books their revenue this way, everybody else does it that way. Ultimately, if you ask Michigan fans, I think, they believe that Jim Hart. ball when he came in four years ago was going to produce championships and national championship. No question.

Ten championships, national championship. So far, he has not managed that. He's been one in five against his biggest rivals, O and three against Ohio State, one and two against Michigan State. And here's what I think really bad. He has not had a very dynamic offense in any way. And he came in as a guy who was the offensive coach, right? You expected for him to be great with quarterbacks, all the Michigan people out there said, hey, Shay Patterson is going to be the truth. The issue that Harbaugh has had is he hasn't had a good quarterback. And then as a result, you finally get Shay Patterson out there. And what did they do?

They couldn't run the ball and they couldn't stop the run relative to Notre Dame. In the first half, the second half, Notre Dame had no offense. In the second half, Michigan was a little bit better running the football, much better throwing the football with the exception of, I think the big thing is that Tarek Black, getting hurt. They just didn't have any playmakers outside the numbers. And it's Patterson's first game. And I'm not sure he's a true drop-back passer. But that's on the coach, right? Listen, I, of course. I mean, they didn't roll him out. They didn't take advantage of his legs. They didn't take advantage of his mobility. And look, you're playing Notre Dame at night

on the road. I don't understand how you don't come out 100% prepared with your best possible offensive sets. Look, at the minute, I like to watch the first couple of drives. Because in the first couple of drives, you got all the coaches sitting down and coming up with their eight to 10 best plays that they think are going to work against a particular opponent. Notre Dame took the ball, went straight down the field, scored a touchdown, eight plays, I think, 75 yards. Michigan came out and they looked like they had no idea what they were doing. No, I thought they looked like they were overwhelmed by playing on the road. But this is what we do, okay? This is the dumbest thing we do as fans is we sit there and go like, hey, you don't play anybody.

you don't play anybody. So they come out and play a true road game. None of these other teams played a true road game started the year. True road game with a brand new quarterback with a bunch of other brand new players. And you're like, wow, they looked overwhelmed for the first half and they seem to get it together and catch their breath at halftime. That's what happens. But that's how college football is played. No, it's not.

The SEC, what they do is genius. They're like, look, we ain't playing these stupid road games. Not doing it. I'll play a neutral side. Sure. You know why? So that doesn't happen. So you don't walk.

No, I mean, I don't think, I don't think that's fair. I'm like, look, you got 17 and 18-year-old. No, no, you get 17 and 18-year-old. And the SEC, Nick Saban has decided he likes these neutral side games. Now, you want to talk about economics. One reason they do that is because the SEC football stadiums are so big that the athletic budgets are predicated on having at least seven home games. And sometimes you need to have eight. And so as a result, you got four road.

That's not why they do it, though. They do it. So, one, they split the money. or there's some sort of split. But two, like, you're going into it, you're not going to throw a kid into that environment. You just don't do it. The likelihood of success is much less

than when you throw it into a neutral site environment. I just, I think when you play a big time challenging opponent, I think it can make a lot of sense to play that game on a neutral site because you don't want to boggle down your schedule with home and homes for multiple years in advance. Now, maybe the home and home will come back a little bit, but there's a reason why Michigan took Notre Dame off the schedule for basically a decade. Look, I mean, the larger context for Michigan is this stat will blow your mind, I think.

I don't know if you've mentioned it on the show. I saw this and I couldn't believe it. I talked about on my own show. Colorado, Purdue, Kansas, and Vanderbilt have the four longest road losing streaks against ranked opponents. Michigan is five. That's a decade of over a decade of futility. Right. And he's in his fourth year.

So you're giving him credit for Rich Rod and for Brady Hoke. Like, look, my thing is he, we act like the world's in a vacuum. And look, this is no different than any other kind of fan base. You act like the world's in a vacuum that you put Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and they win automatically. Remember, Michigan State had surpassed Michigan before he got there. Penn State had their stuff together before he got, had finally figured out and gotten their stuff together with Bill O'Brien and then James Franklin, two guys that got

and got good quarterbacks and good players and good athletes. And so the landscape of the sport had changed dramatically. Yeah, but look at Nick Saban. When you want to compare him to Nick Saban, Auburn was beating the crap out of Alabama. They had won six in a row. Tennessee had won something like 10 of 11 against Alabama when Nick Saban got there. So Tennessee and Auburn had both surpassed Alabama in terms of their success. By year two, Nick Saban is in the SEC championship game.

Year three, he goes undefeated and wins the national championship. Year two, Urban Meyer comes in, taking over for Luke Fickle. I think they were six and seven, all the trestle mess. He comes in and wins a national championship by year two. Jimbo Fisher comes in, turns the Bobby Bowden mess, tosses it aside. Even Dabo takes over Clemson, which I don't think anybody would argue is a program that was on a role. By year four, he wins the ACC. I would offer up this if he's on the market.

Do you think an NFL team wants Jim Harbaugh? Oh, I don't think there's any doubt. But an NFL team would want Nick Sabin and NFL team would want Jimbo Fisher. Are you disappointed in the results? Last year, obviously, the schedule is backloaded. They beat Florida to start the year. They have injuries at quarterback, injuries to Rick Black, who got injured again this year.

So you don't have your best wide receiver. not throwing out, you don't have great quarterback play to begin with, plus you have injuries there. And backloaded season where you lose to Ohio State, you lose to Wisconsin, end of the year, two very good, very well coached teams that are frankly better than them. But the idea that like Michigan, the sky is falling because they lose the Notre Dame first game of the year. And Jim Harbaugh all of a sudden sucks after winning at San Diego, winning at Stanford and getting to a Super Bowl. And within one play of winning a Super Bowl with the San Francisco 49ers, like some of this is where he started at Michigan.

Some of it is the Big Ten. he's very overrated. Think about it. He said he's the most overrated in college football history. I don't think there's any doubt. But if Nick Saban had gone nine and nine in his last 18 years, are you telling me that Alabama fans wouldn't be losing their minds? If Urban Meyer over his next 18 goes nine and nine, if Davos Sweeney did, everybody would say what's going on with those coaches, what has happened to them as successful coaches? It's not nine and nine in college football at a major program is awful. Butch Jones was 8 and 10 in his last 18 games at Tennessee, and people said, my God, we got to get this guy out of here. How's that working out for you, by the way?

I think Jeremy Pruitt's going to be pretty good. He's got a top 10 recruiting class. I think things are going to be on the up and up and up. You care so much about Tennessee football. It's really, really remarkable. Well, it's not remarkable. I mean, you grow up in the SEC and you're starting going to games on your five. But the level to which you care about Tennessee football in comparison to the rest of the world is really, I love watching it. one of those things to which, did you think they looked well coached Saturday?

I thought they had, well, first of all, it's a bad matchup, right? Will Greer is really good. And Tennessee starts all young defensive backs. I mean, they came in because Butch Jones had recruited poorly. And Jeremy Pruitt's got to basically burn the village down and take over. I mean, I thought Bush Jones had recruited well,

especially in the defensive side of the ball, didn't play sometimes the right guys, terrible offensive scheme. And they found ways to lose games they should win. No, the offense actually was, typically pretty successful. They scored a lot of points. But the problem was, I mean, first of all,

Butch Jones had the worst. Had massive injuries two years ago. Butch Jones had the worst season in the 120-year history of the University of Tennessee last year. Tennessee had never lost eight games in a season, and Butch Jones managed to do it, to his credit. Now, Jeremy Pruitt comes in,

and he's got to rebuild the village. So I think Tennessee is a six-and-six team. I think they were going to be a six-and-s- team, even if they had Nick Saban coaching this year, because the talent is just not very good. Remember, Nick Saban in year one at Alabama went seven and six. I believe that Kirby Smart

went seven and six in year one at Georgia. Year two is when you can tell whether a guy is the right guy or not. And year three is certainly. Yeah. Look, I think there's other factors. I mean, look, year, what was it year two for, if we go back to Harbaugh? You know,

that's when they lost three games by a total of five points. That's when you start the nine and nine, right? They go one in three down the stretch, but they lose to Iowa by a point, lose to Ohio State and double O T. There's a terrible spot in that deal, right? And they lose the Florida State by a point in a great Orange Bowl. So, I mean, look, I think that you watch Michigan, and my guess would be if they can figure out the offensive line issues, they beat Western Michigan, beat SMU, probably Pete Nebraska, beat Northwestern in Maryland, right? And then we start to figure out what's what when they pick on with... I think Northwestern will be a tough

game for him. Okay. Maybe, probably. I mean, it's obviously, it becomes Northwestern. But they've got a tough, they've got a tough schedule this year. They've got Wisconsin. They've obviously got Ohio State. They've got Penn State. I think Nebraska, like I believe in Scott Frost, I think by the end of that year, I think they play Nebraska in late October or early November, if I'm not mistaken. I think that'll be a tough game for them. I think Michigan's going to be a nine and three or eight and four team, which is what I said before the season started. Okay, so they win nine and three. Is he still the most overrated coach in the history of college football? Beyond a doubt. That's crazy talk.

You win nine games in the Big Ten. Butch Jones won nine games in the SEC. I don't care about Bush Jones. Well, I mean, I think the standard... You're talking about... But Jones had not won at all these other places. He won Cincinnati. That's it.

He won the Big East multiple years. Here's what you... What is Jim Harbaugh won? The Pac-12 one year? Do you remember where Stanford was before he got there? How are they since he's left? David Shaw is they better... Here's an example of being overrated.

You remember where Stanford was before. Oh, yeah, totally. But here's a good example. Who do you think most people consider to be a better college football coach? David Shaw or Jim Harbaugh? David Shaw would take Jim Harbaugh into the post, spin on him, 360 two-hand dunk in his face. That's how much better David Shaw is than Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh has the hype. David Shaw has the results. Look, I think David Shaw is great. I think he's brilliant, okay? I think he's tremendous football coach. But this idea that like he's, and he too is like Jim Harbaugh lusted after by the NFL and doesn't want to do it. I mean, part of it is you have to understand Stanford, they don't recruit,

they select. Right. That's it. They don't recruit. Now, they have a smaller pool to select from than everybody in the SEC that all you need is a pulse to get into school. But if you're of academic repute and you want, they select you. So it's a, it's a great job that just has financial limitations and limitations in terms of some of the athletes you can and can't get into school. So, but I mean, like, let me go into the Big Ten. I think Mark Dan Antonio is a better college football coach than Jim Harbaugh. I think James Franklin- By the way, they survived Utah State at home.

Like just while we're, well, we're going to sit there and- And he had a terrible year, two years. I agree. Michigan's a better job. Michigan State is a penprick of the job that Michigan is. Completely agree. James Franklin is a better coach. I believe. I had to choose right now, Jim Harbaugh to be my next college football coach or James Franklin, I would take James Franklin. I would take, I would take Jim Harbourb. So just, just so people are aware.

Just so people are aware, Walt Harris won one game, the year before Harbaugh got the job, one game. One, one, uno. So I understand that you, you don't, you don't care about the build. I think people don't understand how, how down Michigan, has been how they have not they've been relevant only because they're of the name michigan but how much they've had to turn over in order to build it up brady hoke won the sugar bowl in what year one or year two with michigan yeah he did something that jim harball hasn't done he actually won a big game uh at michigan at michigan brady hoke yeah i won a big game good stuff clay Travis outkick the coverage is the show every morning and um the new show is called lock it in where clay and three others make their picks.

Rachel Benetis the host, Todd Furman and Cousin Sal. They make their picks every day. Fox Sports won next Monday. One week from today, we'll see how long I go before they fire me. So fingers crossed on the gambling picks. Great stuff. That's Clay Travis. Thanks, Clay.

Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. Well, Doug, great stuff between you and Clay there on Michigan. but let's turn our attention to another huge program in college football that hasn't quite seen the success that they'd like to see in recent history. And we're talking about the University of Texas, of course,

a disappointing start to the season for them. Entering the year 23rd ranked in the country. They actually lost over the weekend to Maryland, 3429. Now we know Maryland's been dealing with their own issues, their head coach DJ Durkins on administrative leave because of what happened with a football player, unfortunately passing away during training camp. But a bad start to the season for Herman,

who was supposed to be the savior of this glorious program. After the game, he said, quote, a lot of people are going to want to say this feels a lot like last year, but it doesn't to me. We know how much better we are now, and we are probably how much better we are now than we were probably at any point last year.

For the record, Texas finished 7 and 6 last season. Look, here's another program, which I didn't like how quickly they fired Charlie Strong, how quickly and decisive they moved on from Charlie Strong. And remember, Tom Herman's a guy who came in with a lot of huff and bluster during a short time. One year at Houston, after winning national championship, his offensive coordinator with third-string quarterback at Ohio State. That said, I kind of tend to agree with him. You know, this is a Maryland team that beat him last year,

but a Maryland team playing with a ton of emotion. Half time I think was 24, 22. Look, the big thing with Michigan is kind of the same story with Sam Ellinger with the decision making. Just not great. A couple of terrible interceptions late. Terrible.

And this, again, to kind of Clay's point, they struggle at times to run the football, although they ended up with 142 yards rushing. They have one, Lil Jordan Humphrey, one legit wide receiver. I still think Texas is a good, really good team. Now, we'll see him against SC in two weeks on Fox.

My expectations is they're going to beat, they're going to beat SC, and then they got TCU kind of the following week. That becomes the true litmus test. But winning is hard. It's not easy. Like, this idea that you roll out and you just start winning, like, yeah, it kind of doesn't really work that way. The other team is trying to win as well.

Herman does himself no favors with some of the way he has carried himself, some of the bridges that he's burned. But I do think that they're pretty close. They feel like better quarterback play away from turning the corner of Texas. Let's turn our attention to some NBA real quick. You touched on this at the top of the hour very briefly.

We know it was a big football weekend. But some news, interesting. The Lakers and Lujal Deng have agreed to a contract buyout. Lual Dang giving back about $7.5 million. Lakers are going to stretch the remaining $29 million over the next couple seasons. What does that all mean? The Lakers now have $38 million in cap space for next off season, which is more than enough for another max player.

Look, that simply means that they can go out and add anyone of a litany of superstar players to go along with their young, their young talent. they have in their roster. And so this is why it's, we've said it, and they've said it. It's a three-year plan. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The herd lie news.

Yeah, it's like fascinating to me that we're not pointing out, last year, Urban Meyer, again, they had a really young team. They lost Oklahoma at home last year, second game of the season. At home. Now, a couple years ago, you go back three years ago or

two full seasons ago, they beat Oklahoma home on the road, got stomped in the college football playoff. That was after they survived Michigan on a bad spot. But no, Urban Meyer's success and ability to consistently be successful is remarkable. But if you're carrying how much Harbaugh makes as the reason he got paid that much because they had to in order to get him. And the truth is, he's not actually making as much as you think he's making. but at some point you've got to start winning more games,

and my expectation would be that point becomes now. But it's a long-term play. When you hire a guy whose dad coached there, played there, and gets out and wants to be your furious recruiter, we'll see if they're able to get it back together. I just, I can't tell you the team is a joke, and he's overrated because they lost one game to Notre Dame, who's better than you think, playing at home,

and they got a big lead early and hung on late. There's a lesson that we have to learn from watching this weekend. I'll tell you what that is next in The Hurd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Outliving for Colin, this is The Herd. We'll discuss John Gruden bidding a due to Khalil Mack. What he said is he lying in about 15. minutes here in the herd.

Look, still reacting to a big college football weekend. I'll tell you what's like amazing, though, about the National Football League. Do you guys see what happened with the Dallas Cowboys? Dan Bailey, second most accurate kicker, I believe in the history of the NFL released over the weekend. And the NFL stands for not for long. So Dan Bailey released by the Cowboys. Cowboys are going to be fascinating to watch this year. Absolutely fascinating.

And the hard part for this position, for the kicker position, for the kicker position, for example is, you know, look at the chargers. And last year they took a chance and went with Youngway Koo. Not Young Way, Who, Young Way Koo. Why? Because he won the kicking competition in the preseason. But the preseason and regular season are completely different. Atlanta, Philadelphia, Thursday.

then Pittsburgh who Cleveland played him close both times last year. I think all of us would concede that Cleveland is they have an upgrade at positions across the board, including quarterback. And Pittsburgh's coming in without Levi-on-Bell. Cincinnati, Indie, Tennessee, who made the playoffs against Miami who's got Ryan Tannyhill back. San Francisco opens up at Minnesota, Jimmy G and his huge contract against Kirk Cousins and his huge contract. Houston against New England.

The nemesis of Houston has been New England. Absolute nemesis. Tampa, New Orleans. That's Ryan Fitzpatrick taking on New Orleans. New Orleans team, which surprised everyone last year. Jacksonville, New York. That's, you know, the guy who's running that Tom Coughlin running that Jacksonville team, taken on the New York Giants and Odell Beckham Jr.

Saquan Barkle, who's been banged up all. preseason. Buffalo who made the playoffs last year because Baltimore spit up all over themselves. R.G3 makes that team. Kansas City, who they've been dominating the Chargers for the last couple of years, take on the Chargers with their new high-powered offense against the Chargers team that has arguably best wide receiving core in football. Seattle, Denver? I don't even need to sell that one. Although both are teams that used, both are teams wet were great. and then they sign their best players to big contracts, and now they're not great.

Washington Arizona is kind of the, that's, Washington Arizona is kind of the, eh, but it matters if you have David Johnson, your fantasy team like this guy, Dallas Carolina, and Chicago Green Bay,

which is now interesting. Plus, you got New York against Detroit and the Rams against the Raiders. We'll talk about the opening week of the NFL upcoming and Khalil Mack, what John Gruden said, and do we buy it, upcoming top of the hour.

Fascinating to me, the narrative that what we can take away from the first weekend in college football, I'm not going to sit here and tell you I thought Michigan's offensive line was good. It was not. Or, well, I tell you that it looked like Michigan had great playmakers outside. The numbers are that Jay Patterson was completely comfortable. Braylon Edwards, who played at Michigan, he's been a Harbaugh critic. he just got suspended at the Big Ten network because he said they were soft and trash

and called out Patterson and Diaz the center by name. I wouldn't go that far, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Michigan look good. Part of it is Notre Dame's good. Part of it is they got down 14-0 and they're playing on the road in an absolute zoo. And part of it is they weren't playing well. but I'm sitting here watching and I realize that Penn State needed overtime to beat App State. Michigan State needed a great fourth quarter comeback to beat Utah State. You know, my alma mater took on Missouri State.

I mean, yes, Alabama played neutral site, but it was Louisville. Not a competent foe at their level. And the takeaway is, hey, as much as fans tell you, they want you to play true road games, they want you to play those true road games and win them. We want you to play Notre Dame. Just don't lose the Notre Dame, right? So the idea, you go so all in. I mean, think about what led,

and there's other factors that led to Jim McElwain losing his job, but the early season games in which the team doesn't appear to be competent or at the level of their opponent in a road environment or even neutral environment, we massively overreact to week one. or early season game. I mean, Mark Rick came in, cock at the walks, puffing out his chest. What a great hire stealing him away from Georgia.

Now you're like, man, you got a quarterback problem. The U's not back. We want you to play those games, but you'd damn well better win them. Otherwise, we're going to call fire in a theater. John Ruden, Jinn just make a bold decision. He made the right one. I'll explain why.

Next in the herd. Doug Gottlieven for Colin. this is the herd, wherever you may be, however you may be listening to the show. Thanks so much for making us part of your day. Deadlines bring deals, right? Deadlines bring deals. Like at some point you got to, you know what? Or get enough to pot.

It doesn't matter what deal it is. There's a deadline. And once you get close to reaching those deadlines, that's when people flinch. There's a good amount of talk, good amount of conjecture over the collective bargaining agreement. okay now what happens now is people point out that the NFL CBA the NFL CBA which is set to expire in a couple of years it's a terrible deal for the players it's a terrible deal for the players that's what people say all the time it extends through the 2020 season remember 2011 there was a lockout And the NFL players waited until a week before the first preseason games before agreeing

to terms on the lockout. That's what happened. Roger Goodell, and this was, and part of it is, it's fascinating to me. We never look at the context of anything. We never look at anything. I mentioned that with Clay Travis who joined us. Clay Travis likes to point out that Jim Harbaugh is completely and totally overrated. That's what he said.

And my point was not only he might actually be underrated, considering what he was able to do at San Diego. The program, no one never paid any attention. I'd even know they had a football team up in, down in Mission Bay. to Stanford who had won 11 games before he got there and then was in a BCS bowl when he left. And it only points out just where Michigan truly was when he got there. Right? Like, look, I think Brady Hoax is a good fella.

I really do. He did a nice job at Ball State. He did a pretty good job at San Diego State for a year for getting the Michigan job. at Michigan when he took over. Remember, he took over and during the time he was there, that's when Penn State Joe Paterno retired and died. And that thing was a mess.

That went from a 50-50 game to a sure-fire dub. They were five and seven at Michigan when he took over. And immediately, he made them a recruiting power again. immediately Harbaugh got them in the conversation nationally. And so no, they haven't been able to turn the corner and be that juggernaut and win the 11 or 12 games that Brady Hoke won in his first year at Michigan. But if you think the program's in as bad as shape as it was then, you're not paying attention.

You literally have, you're just, I don't like a guy, so I'm going to point that out. Anyway, context does matter. in 2010, we were in the middle of a recession. Not just any recession, but people are using the word depression, right? That did, in fact, happen. Remember it happened? Because I'm guessing your house lost a ton of value. You were happy to have your job if you had a job.

Unemployment was spiked. I mean, don't even get me started with African American unemployment was like 20%. Like, it was crazy. what was going on in our country. And look, this happened at major corporations around the country. Some of it was real. Some of it was, you know, it's like profit taking. It was the ability for corporations go like, hey, we don't like this agreement.

Let's dial it back. That's what NFL owners did. And the only reason that they won was because the NFL players panicked. They panicked. They signed a deal a couple of days. before they would have had to have to cancel the first and probably second preseason games. If you do that, that hurts the profitability of all these NFL owners and NFL teams. They would have taken less money.

They would have made less money on the year, but so too would the owners. Owners would have taken a haircut. And so instead of being steadfast and holding out, they panicked. And they signed a deal that was not completely and totally beneficial. to them. That's what happened. It was signed on August 5th, right? July 31st was when they really came to an agreement. And the NFL, the NFL owners givebacks were, hey, well, you'll practice less. You'll practice less. No two a day's. And they would help the guarantees for injured players. And they'd reinstitute a salary cap, which as much as people say, hey, the salary cap sucks.

you ever hear that? No, we shouldn't have a salary cap. Do you remember there was an uncapped year in the NFL? I do. During that uncapped year in the NFL, people started to understand that, yes, the salary cap ceiling hurts, but you know what it has?

A floor. All the NFL players are like, dude, we're all getting paid. No salary cap this year. And then what happened? All these rank and file, offensive linemen, backup linebackers that people had never heard of,

they were getting low balled like crazy. and instead of happy days or here again, you're like, man, I can't wait to have a salary cap back. That way, there's a floor not just the ceiling. Teams have to spend this money. Fast forward to 2018. All of this, John Gruden has been watching. He knows all of the history of the Raiders, the classic overspending of the Al Davis regime, including Namdi Asimai, who Nomdi Osamai was making 16 million a year at cornerback,

when the highest paid cornerbacks in the league were at 12, blew the market out of the water, but also blew up the Raiders. He's watched this league where Seattle wins with a quarterback you're not paying in Russell Wilson, with defensive players who you're not paying because they're young and they're hungry. And they start paying guys,

and once you get 20% of your salary cap invested in two guys, even if one's a quarterback, now of a sudden you hurt your, your ability to put an overall roster out there that is competitive. I'm sure, look, when you heard Jim, if you listen to what Jim, excuse me, Jim, John Gruden said yesterday, you're like, man, he really called out Reggie McKenzie, pointing out all the draft picks that were. Like, look, the fact, the fact of the matter is they went to the playoffs two years ago

with a great offensive line, a really talented young quarterback who had yet to be paid, and a defense that had a couple of dynamic players, but statistically was actually terrible. And they really only went there because they went for it on fourth down and went for two and they beat the Saints in a crazy game. And then Derrick Carr got hurt and they lost early in the playoffs. They weren't competitive. Here's John Gruden on why the deal was made.

Aaron Donald got signed. They're not, they don't have a quarterback that has been redone yet. I think the Bears made this trade. Bisckey's still on his rookie deal. It's tough when you have two players that are the highest paid, arguably, are close to the highest paid at their positions. So the economic part of it certainly weighs in. We've got free agents on our team that are going to be to be next year. We've got to find a way to bring them back. So you've got to field of 53-man roster, and there are some implications of having two players making that much money. That's no mystery to anybody.

Yeah, look, I don't agree with it. I don't agree with it. with and I understand. It's not, look, part of this is Gruden's not being totally honest and saying, we didn't think that Aaron Donald would get Aaron Donald money. We mis-evaluated our

use of the cap. The Raiders don't have the cash, the depth of cash to pay out right away in signing bonuses that other teams have. There are some of the things the Raiders could have done. But I also think that you're sitting there looking at the deadline of game one and they're thinking, Khalil Mack,

He may say he's not going to show up, but he's going to show up and make his $13 million. And we just threw out there, hey, if you really want to play ball, two first round picks, you can have him. And guess what? Some people willing to play ball. Now, those teams that were willing to play ball were the Jets and the Browns and the Chicago Bears, teams that are desperate for talent and have a bunch of cap flexibility and don't have quarterbacks making huge amounts of money. you can tell the truth without telling the whole truth. You can tell the truth without calling yourself out, not admitting some of your own mistakes.

And oh, yeah, by the way, as much as we want to point to the fact that the defensive superstar market, Vaughn Miller and Domicen Sue, those guys set the market. That market hadn't changed in a couple years. And the reason was neither of those teams won after both those players got paid, period stop, because it's really hard to feel the team that has such a high percentage of their overall salaries into one defensive player. I'm not telling you that Keelilil-Mack's not awesome or N.R. Donald's not awesome.

But dude, one guy does not win you football games. I mean, J.J. Watt had a couple years ago, had as good a year as anybody's ever had. If a quarterback has that good a year, that team goes deep into the playoffs. If a defensive lineman does or a wide receiver does, it doesn't necessarily dictate that the team will absolutely have that good a year. So some of this is the economics of the salary cap. And that a deadline spurred a deal. And the Raiders throughout, if you go back a week ago and the Raiders were asking for

two first round picks, there are legitimate people who cover the NFL like, dude, talk about asking for the moon, the stars, and the sun. Nobody's giving you two first round picks for a defensive player. No one is ever doing that. Then they got two first round picks. You're like, I can't believe each truth. Same people. Can't believe they traded Khalil Mack. All right. A lot of people are calling Jim Harbaugh overrated, saying he's on the hot seat after another loss on the road to a Big Ten opponent.

Find out what they're saying in Ann Arbor. I'm Doug Gowley. That's next in the herd. But first, Thursday night, pro football makes it triumphant and long anticipated return to the city of Brotherly Love. That means bragging rights, huge cash prizes are up for grabs at draftings. The leader in one week fantasy sports. The season opener, Draft Kings is hosting fantasy football contest that is $10 to enter as a top $1 million prize. But for limited time only, if you sign up with the code heard, Draft Kings will give you a free entry with your first deposit.

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When you do, draft kings will give you a free shot at $1 million this Thursday. That's the code herd at draft kings, minimum $5 deposit, eligible restrictions apply, see draft kings.com for details. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin,

this is the herd. I do think it's amazing when you check out some of these teams with dynamic defensive players. and you try and figure out like, all right, when did they start making the playoffs? I mean, like, look, the Lions have made the playoffs in, what, two of the last three years, 14 and 16 they made the playoffs after they lost Indomacan Sue.

I mean, there is something, too, not overpaying on one guy. Not overpaying on one guy. And look, there's other things. it. And obviously it's the Chargers, for example, they paid through the nose for Melvin Ingram last year, but they did so quietly, early, there was no holdout. And now you look at the Melvin Ingram deal and you're like, wow, that actually is reasonable. Keenan Allen, same thing. Like those are two elite guys their position. So some of it's how you handle it. You can be loaded up. When you get to highest paid at position other than quarterback, and even with quarterback,

You start to run into the ability to fill out the roster with anything other than young players or guys that are on the last legs. Speaking of quarterback, everyone, myself included, said, Hey, Jim Harbaugh is fine. Once he finds a quarterback, he'll be fine. The offense, which is kind of stale, will be better when you got a legit quarterback.

And we thought, Shea Patterson's that guy. Now, Shea comes from Ole Miss, and Old Miss, by the way, still a dynamic offense even without him. It comes from Ole Miss, but is more athletic than anybody he's had. He's not as athletic as some of the guys Brady-Hoke had, but is an athletic on-the-move passer who can also throw some from the pocket. But the thought was he's just better than any of the guys they threw out there last year.

You go into Notre Dame and you're down 14 to nothing. They fight, they scratch, they claw. They did get to within a touchdown late. the football back late, but Shea Patterson fumbles and they end up losing at Notre Dame. And so now the Harbaugh haters come out and say, hey, eight to eight last 16 games. Eight and eight last 16 games. Let's welcome in Nick Baumgartner. He covers Michigan football for the Detroit Free Press.

Follow him on Twitter at Nick Baumgartner. Nick, in the context of just the game, how did you think Michigan played? Not well, Doug. I mean, I think that that's the, you know, they had a lot of guys. back on this team that played a lot last year. A lot of these guys were young players last year that were kind of going through their learning curve. And then, you know, the bigger surprise, I guess, was first and foremost that defense brought out almost everything back from a group that was number three overall last year. And they got just walloped in the first two series of

the game. And that it was, you know, just shaky from there. So the offensive line still has problems. I thought Shay Patterson, all things considered, I mean, he was running for his life most of the night. I thought all things considered for his first game in a new system, It's mostly fine, but there's not a lot of juice on this team offensively, not a lot of speed out there, and the offensive line still really struggles against quality opponents. So, you know, consider the opponent. You're playing on the road, and it's all that, but, you know, if Michigan had thoughts on being a playoff contender this year and through one game, that doesn't look very realistic.

I would agree with you in terms of how they look the first two series, but, I mean, Notre Dame had no offense in the second half. I mean, it did feel like, it did feel like Michigan figured it out, especially defensively as the game went on. Yeah, and that's, you know, and that's one thing where it's like, that's what we expected. I think the rest of that game was about, you know, what I expected from them in terms of, you know, their ability to, you know, hanging defensively against a, you know, a little key,

but same time, we give up 14 points right away with an offense that's really unproven and already has a lot of question mark. and it does. I mean, a lot of people, like, you know, I heard you're on your lead in. A lot of people, I think, just assumed, and maybe this is created within their own building for Michigan, I don't know. But I think a lot of people wrongly just assume that Shea Patterson was going to come in here, flip the switch, and an offense that was just dreadful last year, was just going to fix itself. They had a lot more problems with Jay Patterson than had a quarterback a year ago, and I think a lot of those kind of showed back up again.

Defensively, I'll buy it. They'll get better. I think that's the two series, but offensively there's a lot of question marks. Yeah, I mean, like, look, Winbush started 10 of 13, and then he goes two of seven down the stretch. I mean, it was, you know, look, I think he showed his limit. And even the 43-yard touchdown was, I mean, very, very easily could have been intercepted, not for an incredible play, an incredible catch by Notre Dame. Let's talk about Patterson. Obviously, they struggled in the first half, but they did, they were better in the second.

I think 217 yards in the second half. but he doesn't have, there's no Tariq Black outside. How come there's not more speed outside the numbers? That's a great question, and that's the answer that, you know, we asked pretty routinely a year ago, you know, when they lost all those great players from that 2016 team that was, you know, inches away from the playoff. And then a year ago, they had a lot of young guys.

The answer was, well, they're young. You know, they've got to get time. You know, they've had time. I mean, they're not all old. They're not all seniors. but, you know, the offense just still looks stale, I guess, is the best way of putting it. And against quality opponents. In top-level teams, no, you don't see any game breakers.

I mean, the receivers are all, you know, for the most part, you know, if they're faster than they're showing, they haven't shown it. And I think that that's the situation they're in. I'm not sure they're real confident. I think they have a quarterback who's confident, but I don't know if the rest of them right now are all the way up to speed on what they've got to do when, you know, when things go down. because when you start down 14-0,

there's got to be a little bit more urgency, and there just wasn't much of any of that. And a lot of guys kind of looking around wondering what was going to happen. Even the last scoring drive, like, it was like, hey, fellas, we can go, no huddle, we're going to,

we're going to get this thing, get this thing moving a little bit. It is, there's a little bit of, a little bit of Monty Kiffin when he was at USC as defensive coordinator, right? Well, you're running cover two, the old, the old cover two, like, that doesn't work again spread.

I guess the question becomes, can you win in college football running kind of this old school traditional style offense? You've got to have an elite offensive line. And I think that they don't have that. And that's why I think you see a lot of frustration from people here or on Michigan's program is that, you know, why can't they, well, you know, they've recruited to this and they don't have it. And that's the biggest problem. I think you watch LSU last night push Miami all over the field. LSU runs exactly what Michigan runs, not any different. It's just when their offensive line is moving people, it works.

But when they're not, and when they are struggling, it is a nightmare. And that's what you saw. And that's what Michigan's really had problems with, really for the last, you know, you strike that set 16 games. That's been their problem for the last 16 more than anything else. Are we missing giving credit to Notre Dame? Like, I know that people don't like Brian Kelly, but like, are we missing like, hey, Notre Dame?

They look really, they've always been really good in their own offensive lines. It's one thing, Brian Tekelly's done an unbelievable job, and you're missing. you got two big holes, but I mean, and maybe it's Michigan's offense, or maybe it's Notre Dame's defense line is freest out. Yeah, I mean, Notre Dame had a lot back on what was an emerging defense last year, and that certainly should be overlooked. And, you know, all credit to them, they play great, and they all play Michigan in every corner. I thought Brian Kelly and his staff out coached Jim Harbaugh, you know,

we're better prepared and all those things, but, you know, I think the issue there for Michigan, when you just look at it from that standpoint, is it's the same stuff. It's the same issues that kind of what were problems, problems in the last year and a half, and that's why. But yeah, no, you're probably overlooked in Notre Dame. I mean, a lot of people probably are. But, you know, it's week one.

I mean, we tend to do that. Yeah, no, listen, and here's what's crazy about. Nick Baumgartner covers Michigan football for Detroit Free Press is no one's discussing, because it's Notre Dame Michigan, because it's Jim Harbaugh, no one's pointing out like, hey, Penn State had to survive App State at home, or Michigan State had to survive Utah state at like that game was very much uh very much in doubt like Utah state had a whole bunch of dumb plays penalties and and and bizarre things they shot themselves in the foot that cost them a chance at beaten Michigan beat Michigan state on the road like I and you know we haven't

seen Nebraska yet but there is this assumption incredibly difficult schedule that they actually might still be able to win nine games right yeah I think that they can you know there are things that they can fix I just don't know how how what kind of like I said earlier, I think their defense is, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They have a lot back, a lot of talented players there. And I think they'll be fine, as we saw, as that game worn on. But I just don't know what the ceiling is for the offense. I think Michigan has, they just don't have much room for error.

The schedule is really, really good, and the defense has to play. It lights out most weeks, or the offense is going to struggle. You can't get behind. I mean, that's just one of those things. So with the way they play, the defense is to carry it. And, you know, in terms of the criticism and everything else, I mean, hey, that's life from the big stage. You hire a coach like Jim Arbaugh, who's out there,

and has been out there for however many years you've been here three years, three and a half, you deal with this. And that's why places like that have struggle games that don't talk a lot, we don't talk about them as much. And that's the national situation. And that's why it is what it is. But, you know, Michigan has to deal with that

as they do most every year. Is he legitimately on the hot seat? No, I don't think so. I think that's, I think that's an overreaction. And that's something where it makes for a nice, you know, snazzy headline or sound bite. But no, I don't think that that's realistic. I think, and I mean, we'll see how the season goes, I guess.

I mean, anybody could, anything can change at any point, but, you know, they don't have any of these off-the-field problems at the moment. You don't see any of that going on. And I think Michigan, in some circles over the years, maybe learned a little bit of a lesson, and maybe we shouldn't fire a coach every three years. You know, maybe we should let somebody have a chance. But you never know.

I mean, that's one of those things that season has play out. But no, I wouldn't say that that's a legitimate situation going on right now. Nick Baumgarter, Nick, thanks so much for joining us, giving us your insight and have a happy, happy Labor Day. All right, Doug, thanks. Nick Bumgarner covers Michigan football for the Detroit Free Press. Follow him on Twitter at Nick Bumgarner.

Braylon Edwards, apparently worked for the Big Ten Network. He got suspended for a tweet he had. Now, let me, I'll read the tweet while bleeping out a word, but while personally blanking out, you know, not including a word that's in there. It says Ruiz, that's the Senate. Ruiz is weak, line is weak, Shea is scared, blanking,

it starts to an F, blanking Michigan offense is so predictable. Michigan football, sadly, one thing, trash. So here's my, here's the deal. I understand that there is going to be, whether it's on social media or the regular media, hey, Braylon Edwards is paid for his opinions

of Michigan football players. He's allowed to be passionate. But if you want to be an analyst, you can even even as a as a former Michigan football player and a damn good one you can say their offense is predictable you can say feels like Shea Patterson's playing scared or the offensive line is weak you know you can say those things uh I would say cursing on it never a good idea there's just no use for it and calling your alma mater trash again that's not really analysis right you just like It's just had he simply said like, hey, Ruiz looks weak, line still looks weak.

Shea Patterson looks, you know, people freak out to the word scared. But if you want to say scared, that's okay. That's real talk. Michigan's offense predictable. Same old, same old. Then you know what? Still have your job today. Or still not suspended today.

You start calling your football program trash. You don't need to drop an F bum. I think it's a bit of an over. But one overreaction meets another. Braylen's overreaction in his tweet is met with an overreaction from his bosses. Let's get to Ryan Music with the news. Turn on the news. This is the herd line news.

All right, Doug, we got a ton of quarterback news. Let's get started with some college football first. You mentioned this earlier. The whole Nick Sabin, when you were talking about it with Danny Cannell in the first hour, show. Nick Sabin got a little testy post-game interview when asked about his quarterback situation. But he wasn't asked about his quarterback situation. In fairness, to Maria Taylor. She asked him what he learned about quarterback. True. Very true. Well, regarding this quarterback situation, he did make an announcement, Tua Tagaviloa will be the starter, but he said we are going to

use Jalen's skill set in the future. So I guess Tua is the starter. That doesn't mean that Jalen's benched for good. Everybody, I mean, look, he clearly didn't want to lose Jalen. He wants to have Jalen not transfer because there's a chance T.ua gets hurt. Or that Tua, you know, starts, gets into a rut and you call on his, you know, you call on his skill set. I think Jalen Hertz is their J.T. Barrett. I do. He's their J.T. Barrett. He's a tremendous leader, a really good kid.

and a guy who can run and make plays and find a way to throw at opportune times. But there's a ceiling there, and that ceiling got exposed to the national championship game. Which you want to keep a J.T. Barrett there. But you don't want to start a J.T. Barrett if you have a guy with more talent. He does. So do I love the way he's handled it?

No. But do I understand that you can't just name a guy a starter? Look, Nebraska named Kid Martinez a starter from Fresno, a freshman. the backup immediately transferred. Like anytime any of these young quarterbacks get named USC when they named J.T. Daniels's a starter. Their backup gone.

So what happens? So this whole idea, well, you got to just name a starter. No, you want, us as fans want to name a starter. But you don't have to name a starter if you don't want to lose your backup to transfer. Do you think there comes a point in the season when Tua finally shows how much better? I mean, it seems pretty obvious right now,

but do you think there's going to come a point in the season when it is so abundantly clear that Tua's the guy that he will eventually move towards putting Jalen on the bench for good? Or will it just be a season-long thing where he tries to make it work with two quarterbacks? I think game five is where it gets really interesting. Game five is where it gets really, really interesting because remember four games in now, you can redshirt a guy.

Now, the problem with redshirting is, Well, I guess you could redshirt him And then he can graduate I believe Jalen Hurts is going to graduate him this year So if you graduate you can transfer and play right away So he could redshirt him after four games But you don't have to, I don't think it's yet to play in any four You can play in any four games you want

So he might play a couple and then sit and wait Until late in the year And then he can always redshirt I don't know how those new rules work Plays three games And then he doesn't play again Hoping that they could use him In the college football playoff for the national championship

Auburn, yeah. Or Auburn, okay. Interesting. All right, so we move from college football. We have a ton of quarterback news here in the NFL. The breaking news earlier today, another quarterback situation that we are keeping an eye on. And this one in the NFL is with the Philadelphia Eagles. Doug Peterson, head coach, announced that Nick Foles will be their starter this Thursday night against the Atlanta Falcons. The interesting thing to note here was not that they're just sort of waiting to put Carson Went out under the field. He actually said Wenz was not cleared from a medical standpoint for contact yet.

So Carson Wens, not ready to play yet. That's not a surprise. I mean, Carson Wins, he didn't tear his knee at the start of the year. Remember, he tore his knee later in the year when he was going to win the MVP when they lost to the Rams. And didn't just tear one ligament toward two, ACL and LCL. So there's no rush in having him back. I think the rush is they all think Nick Foles is going to be exposed. Right?

and look at their schedule earlier. Falcons, add buccaneers, and the bucks will be coming up the Saints game. Colts, add Titans. Like, I think Foles can survive it. People think I'm not a Nick Pha. I actually like Nick Foles,

love the Nick Foll's story, but he is a guy that when his confidence goes, it goes in a hurry. And like, we've quickly forgotten how poorly, no he's playing the preseason, but how poorly he played when he initially got the job as starting quarterback last year. And he didn't play well until really the Minnesota game.

And then obviously played great against the Patriots. in the Super Bowl. So which Nick Foles shows up here. But I would guess that the Eagles are going to wait as long as they can. And remember, because so many guys have held out, you don't have two a days. The offensive lines aren't usually great in jelling until game three or four. Many teams view, especially the really good ones,

view the first three or four games has extended preseason. I think the Eagles are fall in line with that. Let's head on two quick notes here with rookie quarterbacks in the NFL. Number one being that Nathan Peterman will be the starting quarterback for the Buffalo Bills. Now, he's not a rookie. He's a second year quarterback. But of course, that means that first round draft pick Josh Allen will be second on the depth chart for the bills to start the season. And similarly, the Ravens, we know that their starter will be Joe Flacco. But interesting enough, they announced that RG3, Robert Griffin the 3, will be their second string quarterback, meaning rookie first round pick,

Lamar Jackson will be third string on their depth. He's looked like a third string quarterback. He's looked like a project guy. He's not ready to play. Can he come in and run around for a little bit? Yeah. But in that offense, he just, he looked lost. I mean, I understand people want to see Lamar Jackson succeed.

And ultimately, I hope he does. But if you talk to NFL people, they will tell you that both Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are a long way away. And the strongest likelihood for success is for them to sit this year. And I think the bills, the bills fall in line with that. It's smart for the bills to do. Even if Nate Peterman and his five interception, the first half performance against the Chargers,

these every bill fan thinking, oh my God, this is going to be a long year. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Another reason why the Patriots, year in, year out are remarkable. That's next and the best for last.

In the herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Doug Gottliebent for a call. And this is the herd. Baseball is kind of crazily exciting.

Hard to sell to you, right? I mean, just is because you're like, ah, Red Sox are awesome. Yes, they are. Yankees will be there too, although they have to win a playoff. Then you get the Astros and the A's and the Indians. The National League far more interesting, right?

Far more interesting with Braves, Cubs, and then all the mess in the West. Matt Camps the up at the start of the season, the down, and then with a walkoff. What I find interesting is in baseball, they always talk about run differentials, the true determinant to how good you are, right? But if you look, the Dodgers, they've scored 128 more runs than their opponents, 128. Statistically, that's the best in the National League. So they should have the best record in the National League.

Actually, they do not. The Rockies have scored 15 fewer runs than their opponents. And yet, the Dodgers are 75 and 62. The Rockies are 74 and 62. It makes no sense. But I've said this before and you can use this at home. Anytime something makes no sense in baseball, you just go, that's baseball.

Right? Try that with your wife sometime, by the way. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Honey, you said you were out with the boys last night, yet you came home with lipstick all over your neck, a hotel room key, and there were panties inside your gym bag. That doesn't make any sense.

Honey, it's baseball. Doug Gottliebentford calling. This is the herd. I'll just state this on the Kille-Mack thing. It doesn't mean, And this kind of steals from baseball. One of the big things that baseball players have to believe in is process over results, right? And I think this is, it's become part of all sports, which is process over the process.

The more you execute the process correctly, the more the result will be right. One of my closest friends in sports guy named Matt Holiday. I don't know if you guys, Matt Holliday's boardline Hall of Famer. I think seven straight years was 20 home runs. Rockies, then to the card. and then last year and up and down season with the Yankees was out of baseball

and then back a month ago the Rockies like hey can you still hit yeah I can still hit now he's playing with the Rockies platooning d-hing especially against left left handers and so far so good he's on base like 50% of the time

anyway he was talking about like baseball is such a game of failure you have to believe in your process if I'm seeing if I'm working to hitters counts am I seeing the ball is my timing mechanism right you know how is that was my balance through my swing.

My process is right. More often times than not, my talent to take over, my result will be right. The Raiders got the process right. They got the process. It's really hard for you if you're a Raiders fan.

And I'm not talking about the Raiders fan that starts a fight at seemingly every sporting event to which they wear a Raiders jersey. Like, stop, don't be that guy. Don't be the Raiders fan who's in denial of what a high person. I'm not saying all Raider fans are gangsters,

but I don't know any gangsters that don't claim the Raiders of their team. So, so Raider fan out there who's freaking out over Killeleel Mack. Cleo Mac's a great player, great player. But one of the things we do in sports radio, in sports television,

and I haven't doing this for 15 plus years, is this. We go, would you trade and we're like, well, I don't know, because what we're told to do is there has to be a yes or no. Would you trade Kille Mac? No. Would you trade Kille Mac?

Yes. If you say yes, you're like, you're crazy. Would I trade Cleo Mac? No, would you trade Cleo Mac for two first round picks? Yes, if the two first round picks are not that of the Patriots, who I know are going to win 12 games. They're not the two first round draft picks of the Rams. We're probably going to win 12 or 13 games because they got dudes.

So who are the two first round picks up? The Bears. like I actually think the Browns got a chance to win a couple games. I'm not sure, you know, Ryan Pace trying to turn over the roster with the Bears. I like Roquan Smith. I'm undecided as to Mitch Trubisky. I haven't, they didn't have, you know, obviously they went and hired Nagy to be his quarterback guru.

They kept Dave Ragone, the former backup, to be kind of his quarterback whisperer in his ear. But you tell me, like, Raider fan right now freaking out. But are the bears better than the giants? Are they better than the Redskins? The better than the Eagles, the Cowboys, the Vikings, the Packers, the Lions, the Saints, the Panthers, the Rams, the Rams, maybe the Niners, the Seahawks, like, who do you have more? So they're going to lose a lot of games. Those picks are valuable.

Are you going to trade Khalil Mack? No. What if it's for two first round picks, the first of which is the top five pick in the draft? Oh, oh. Oh, that, that changes it a little. Look, people freak out over the 10-year contract and what it means. And yes, it means he has more power than Reggie McKenzie. And yes, it means he can tell players, you don't like it, get lost.

I'm not going anywhere. And yes, it is a sale to the city of Vegas. Like, hey, is your coach? He's going to be your coach. Get used to it. But it's also, it takes as much as people think the $10 million or however many million dollars per year that it is, it takes the pressure off Gruden to take shortcuts. And he can let the process be correct.

And the more, and if you say non-quarterback, who wants to be the highest paid player, non-quarterback in the league, and based upon the market and his talent deserves to be the highest paid guy, would you trade two top, I mean, the first, first round pick

is going to be a top five to seven pick, right? Like nobody thinks the bears are winning their division. And if you don't win your division, you're winning less than, but you're not a wildcar team, you're winning less than eight games. Likely it is, worst case scenario, top 10 pick. Landing two first round picks for a guy who wanted to be overpaid at a non, at non-quarterback, your process is correct. That is the right decision.

Six days a week and twice on Sundays. Let's get to the best for last. After almost three hours, Colin apparently hasn't gotten to the point yet. Quit holding out on us, cowherd. It's the best for last. The Broncos, the Broncos released Paxton Lynch. Paxton Lynch are long past,

Paxton Lynch. And remember, other teams, apparently, Dallas Cowboys wanted to trade up to get Paxton Lynch in that NFL draft. And what's fascinating to me is with all the changes around the league, with the players who, the Levyon Bells,

the Aaron Donalds, the Cleo Max, those guys who want to be paid. All of that nonsense. And it's not even nonsense. It's the market being set. Do you know who he don't talk about in terms of setting markets? The New England Patriots. And it's fascinating also that when you lump in the Broncos,

a guy who's run by one of the great quarterbacks. And like, look, I actually think that Elway in many ways is better than he gets credit for. The Elway got blown out in his first two Super Bowls, but they shouldn't have been in those two Super Bowls. Bulls, if not for John Elway, the drive, and then, of course, Ernest Biner dropping the football walking into the end zone. They shouldn't even been there until they got exposed when they got there. Like, John Elway is way better than we ever give him credit for.

But he's terrible at evaluating the position that he played, which is normal. Like Michael Jordan can't evaluate basketball players. John Elway struggles to evaluate, and by the way, evaluating quarterbacks is hard, really, really hard. All these people that act like, oh, Seattle, they knew they wanted Russell Wilson. Why'd they wait the first two rounds before they got him? Right. Dallas Cowboys had a couple chances to get Dak Prescott. They didn't take him until he fell to them. So all these geniuses that managed to find a way, but it's interesting. Gronk talked about retiring. He signs a new deal to get more bonuses. Tom Brady still wildly underpaid.

I don't know where all that money is being spread, but it's being spread around in New England, and the Patriots are going to win their division again. They're not cutting first-round pick quarterbacks. They traded theirs. They're not dealing with guys that want to be the highest-paid players at their position. They trade those guys, too.

And with all the things that change in football, the thing you can depend on is you're going to have to go in New England if you want to get to the Super Bowl. That's generally the way it works. I don't know everything about. about football. I don't know a lot about football. I do know. You're going to have to go into New England if you want to win a Super Bowl. Got a great college football game tonight. Can't wait to see D'Andre Francois. Colin is back tomorrow. Download the all-ball podcast. Me and Jay

Billis, we talked for about two hours, the first of which is on the herd podcast network. I'm Doug Gottlie. This continues to be the herd. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline.

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