The Herd with Colin Cowherd - What's Wright - Best Of - Should Shedeur Sanders START for Browns? Nick CANNOT BELIEVE Colin Cowherd & Bill Simmons Chiefs takes

Episode Date: August 16, 2025

Nick Wright reacts to Shedeur Sanders' stellar debut for the Cleveland Browns in their opening NFL preseason matchup against the Carolina Panthers. Should Shedeur start over Joe Flacco, Kenny Pickett, and Dillon Gabriel? Later, Nick breaks down why Colin Cowherd saying Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce, and the Kansas City Chiefs' dynasty is over is a ridiculous take. How confident is Nick in his Chiefs to hold off the likes of Josh Allen's Buffalo Bills, Lamar Jackson's Baltimore Ravens, and Joe Burrow's Cincinnati Bengals? Lastly, Nick reacts to The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and ESPN’s Dan Orlovsky's QB rankings heading into the 2025 NFL season. Nick discusses whether it is fair for anyone to rank Buffalo Bills QB Josh Allen, Baltimore Ravens QB Lamar Jackson, or Cincinnati Bengals QB Joe Burrow over Kansas City Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes... and uses Simmons' Tom Brady-Peyton Manning argument to say why it's not. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to the best of the week for What's Right with Nick Wright, the best takes and moments from this week on the show. Enjoy. Shador, he looked pretty good.

I mean, he looked fantastic, but he looked pretty good for a quarterback who went there, did his thing. Head coach Kevin Stefanski still hasn't committed to Shadour. So do you think that he showed everything he needed to do to get the starting job? What do you? Well, he's definitely not going to be their week one starter. That is going to be Joe Flacco. I don't even think, by the way, if I were Shador, I know he can't say this.

I wouldn't even want to be the week one starter. like I would the browns open with the Ravens and then they play I'm sorry the Browns open with the Bengals so I wouldn't actually hate that because the Bengals defense but then they go Ravens Packers, Lions,

Vikings Steelers like those are not defenses I'm interested in playing right off the start exactly right and I understand that the Browns just released their latest depth chart and Shador is still number four. They did not move him up at all. I don't believe it.

I think that Shador has now, if we are being fair, it is now Dylan Gabriel who is chasing Shador in the quarterback competition instead of vice versa. Like, the, you know, the old,

Adage, you don't lose your job due to injury is total BS. Happens in sports all the time. People lose their job because of injury and because the guy who fills in for you shows something, he didn't have the opportunity to show before. And so if Flacco was just entrenched at one, which I think he is, Kenny Pickett was two and is two on the lay step chart. He's been hurt the last couple of weeks. of camp. It doesn't look like he's going to play at all. He didn't play in their first preseason

game. Doesn't look like he's going to play in their second. Dylan Gabriel is three. Gabriel, according to all reports on the ground, has been bad in practice and was injured for the first preseason game. Shador's four. He's practiced well, and I thought made four very high level throws in that game and it really only made a couple bad mistakes. And so I think that is enough to where he should have taken the lead on Gabriel. And the goal for either of these rookies flatly needed to be beat out the other rookie. So when Flacco inevitably gets benched, I'm the guy they go to. Now, maybe they'll go to pick it, but I think that would be assonine.

And so now I also think this, DeMonse, I think Gabriel will and should start preseason game number two. And then, you know, he can, if he plays well and should work play. Why don't they just give both of them a half? Yeah, give both of them a half in that game. I could even see him go DeMonsei quarter quarter, quarter, quarter. Okay. You know what? Thereabouts.

Like I could see Gabriel playing, then Chador, then Gabriel back in, then Chador. That way, you know what I mean? You get more time with starting caliber players or, you know, guys that are actually going to make the team or they each get it. But I now think Gabriel, I think Chador is now amongst the rookies in pole position. And I also think that, and this is why. So I thought after the game, him saying something to Tony Grossie was totally fine. And I think people don't recognize how common that is.

That guys saying after games in locker rooms or in the tunnel to reporters, like, hey, what was up with that? That has happened forever. That used to happen to me. I remember Matt Castle saying to a different media member, we're both standing there when he realized that media member, You know what? I think it was to Mark Carmen, our friend, whose birthday was actually yesterday. I think it was to Carm that he said to him, this is your buddy about me?

He's like, yeah, he's like, he sure talks a lot of shit, doesn't he? Like, did not like some of the things I had said about him. That's super common. So I have no problem at all with Shador having that moment with Tony Grossi. At this time, though, because that really what you need to be worried about? So here is the thing on that. I think the smile and the laugh at the end made it okay. And I think that like charisma and charm and a great smile can really carry people in

certain. Yeah. And so like that to me was fine. I thought the walk in was a misstep. I didn't think it was a grievous error. But I thought. I'm not asking you to be someone you're not, but turn down the volume on literally on the boom box,

I guess, and also figuratively. Now, I understand those were his teammates, not his entourage, but still, you're the quarterback, the guy carrying the giant walking stick staff in the boom box, I might have been like,

can we not do that? And if you really want to walk in like that, maybe I'll go in, you know, a little bit after you because it's he is if the Browns won't elevate him on their real depth chart then he also wants another team to trade for him you know and so I just don't think that helps um but I don't think it's a huge deal you'd certainly rather him play well and have an awkward pre and post game, then be perfect pre and post game and play poorly. Go ahead.

No, I mean, with that take, you were saying that maybe he should show out for the Rams or maybe the Rams look at him because words like a mortal chamber are being thrown around and it's very serious. Yeah. I don't like it. So do you think that's more of a possibility now? I could see more and more serious. I think that right now he's probably worth, he was drafted with a fifth. I think he's worth at least a fourth.

You know what I mean? And so, but I don't, I think the Browns want to keep him. I think Stefansky might be coming around if he wasn't already there. And I think you had to be impressed by how he handled himself and how he played, uh, this Sunday. It was it Sunday, Saturday, whatever Friday. It was Friday. It was Thursday or Friday.

All right, Daman, let's go to the list. listener questions. T.S. Where do you think Alan Lamar rank all time, right, this moment, just as quarterback talents? I'd say both top 15 side question are the smelling salts going to ruin

your life? Smelling salts are not going to ruin my life, but you know, strong recommend if people haven't tried him yet, especially if you're like maybe trying to kick caffeine or something. Like I haven't read into the potential downsides of huff and ammonia occasionally.

but it sure woke me up. Where do Lamar and Allen rank just as quarterback talents? What an interesting question. Top 15 sounds right. Like if I were ranking just raw talent. Quarterbacks ever? That's what, yeah, that's what they're saying, saying all time. Um, Mahomes Rogers are to me the top two.

Omar's got to be like top 10 at least. Same thing, but I feel like both those guys. Those are electric dudes as far as just talent. Like now, maybe not winning Super Bowl and stuff. No, yeah. Those are.

Yeah. So I think safely. So raw talent, Mahomes Rogers, far has to be up. there. Manning has to be up there. It's a compliment to Brady that we're not even like saying him with all of his success because, you know, he maximized everything about his physical ability. Marino's got to be up there. I always have had a soft spot for Steve Young.

John Elway's up there. And now we can start talking Lamar and Josh. You know what I mean? Like, so, yeah, the, in that bottom part of the top 10 firmly in the top 15, I think that's right. All right. Let's go to Ethan. Ethan asked, as a poker expert who understands the principle of the plus EV, I'm curious if you take the same approach in the sports gambling or if you trust your own personal bias over Sharpbooks. I don't look at, I don't look at sports betting the way I look at poker, just for the record. like I don't I don't while I do try every year to give out winners and to you know make you guys money I I am a little bit more conservative with poker um no I don't know a bit no I just look at it like poker I am trying to make the best decision at every point sports I have a very hard time betting against my takes you know what I mean I won't always bet on my takes but like I it's why I'll all never even if I'm getting points bet against the chiefs you know what I mean so like there are just certain things that so that's but I also I and I would this is how I would recommend it for other people look at sports betting as I

a recreational endeavor, not like, hey, this is how I'm going to make extra money. Poker's different in that regard for me. All right, let's keep going. Michael asks, is Jackson better than Prime Vig? Yes. Love Mike, but yes. Lamar is a far already, a far better passer than Mike ever was. You know what I mean?

He just is. And I love Mike, but I think Mike would tell you that. um next indy nick do you think that everyone is just so skewed by fantasy football josh and lamar have been excellent fantasy quarterback so people assume that they are the best yeah i think that absolutely is some do with it i absolutely think that the crazy fantasy numbers impact this a hundred percent um uh noah yeah no what no ass when is the future show going to having it's like soon on weeks yeah the so we have a show Thursday then we're off for a week and then the our futures and our gambling show it'll probably be a two-part thing Tuesday and

Thursday next week to get us ready for football season right in line with um predictions week on uh first things first and de Diego says has snakes enthusiast Kevin wilds weighed in on de Manzai's reptiles that's a good that's a good first thing's first joke and I I appreciate it. UFC 319 is blowing back to the windy city. I bet Colin's going to be there. Check out the fight card and get in on all the action at Draft King's Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of UFC.

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We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. And, well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some

retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris, every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay. Jen she went. I mean, she went down in three to Rovachina, but I'm delighted.

She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now and actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year. Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds.

I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Andy Reid downplayed all the naysayers saying that the Kansas City's window is closing for the dynasty. Colin was also one of those naysayers saying that the winning is over. Do you think that the dynasty is continual if they win the Super Bowl this year?

Well, hold on. I don't even think that's obviously if they win the Super Bowl this year, the dynasty is in progress. I want to focus more on, listen, I think it's well-established how much I adore and love Colin Cowherd. His chiefs takes. now I mostly blame JMAC. I think that like the proximity to JMAX

historically bad Chiefs takes have somehow there's been an osmosis of take that has impacted Colin. But they've been to three straight Super Bowls. They had the best record in the NFL last year. They got to the last one, right? They got to say it. They made it to the last Super Bowl. Like I think they have to at least not make a Super Bowl.

the dynasty to be over. Well, I would think so. Right. Yeah. And by the way, like, when we talk about dynasties in the NFL, the Pittsburgh Steelers is probably the most famous one. They won two Super Bowls. They then went two years without making the super, forget without winning it,

without making the Super Bowl. And then they won two more. We look at that as one dynasty. The Patriots is an interesting one. I don't consider the Pats one continuous dynasty. But if you do, it went like this. Won a Super Bowl, missed the playoffs, then won two Super Bowls. Then, gosh, I'm going to have to do this off the top of my head.

Oh, six, going for the three Pete, lost their first playoff game. I'm sorry, wait. 05 going for the 3 Pete. It's going to be hard to do up top my head, but I'm going to try. Lost their first playoff game. 06, lost in round 2. 07 lost the Super Bowl. 08 missed the playoffs.

09 and 2010 lost before the Super Bowl. 2011 lost in the Super Bowl. 2012, 2013, lost before the Super Bowl, 14 won the Super Bowl, 15 lost in conference title game, 16 won the Super Bowl, 17 lost the Super Bowl, 18 won the Super Bowl,

19 lost in round one. So if we want to do that as one long dynasty, then it's going to be impossible to say the Chief's dynasty is over. If you consider the Patriots one long dynasty, the Patriots went a decade without winning a Super Bowl. The Chiefs have gone 16 months. And so that part's just ridiculous.

It's just fundamentally ridiculous to say, I'm declaring it dead when the Chiefs are in the midst of, or just completed, I guess you would say, the greatest three-year stretch in the history of the league. And they have been to three consecutive Super Bowls and seven straight AFC championship games. It's now, if your take is, they're just not good enough anymore,

it's a bold take. Maybe, like, there's no evidence for it, but if it's just your gut feeling, then so be. it. Here is what I find the most de Monza

ridiculous about this Chief's fatalism stuff. And then we can move on. Every team in the AFC that is chasing them, if this

year they have the exact season Kansas City had last year. Best record in last undefeated team. Best record in the NFL. Beat the chiefs in the AFC playoffs.

Make the Super Bowl. Lose the Super Bowl. It will be considered evidence that that team is getting closer and the best season any of those teams have had in this era. the chiefs having that year is considered evidence of implosion. But I am here to tell you if the Baltimore Ravens are the final or the Buffalo Bills or the Cincinnati Bengals or the Los Angeles Chargers or God forbid the Denver Broncos or any of those teams, if they are the last undefeated team, if they are 15 and 1 with the one seed locked up,

They then beat the chiefs in the playoffs and then run into, I don't care who, call it Philly. Or no, because Philly then would go back to back. That complicates things. Call it the Lions and get blown out in the Super Bowl. If that were to happen and then I were to go on TV and be like, this year was the end of that team, they're done now. time for a new chapter. People would say, dude, you're just a hater. And this is also an element of my, a lot of my,

my Holmes frustration in, and I'm going to talk about this on the TV show today, in how he's discussed. Do you agree to Monzae that all Lamar, Josh, and Burrow, the year they had last year, elevated them, even if not in their actual ranking, but people elevated them their standard. And that people felt their seasons combined with the year Mahomes had narrowed the gap for best quarterback. And some people flipped it. You agree with it.

that right yeah that's like conventional wisdom okay and this is where the point that i make that mahomes is not judged against his peers i think is crystallized let's pretend patrick this year had any of their seasons last year okay let's start with joe patrick puts up insane numbers and the chiefs miss the playoffs does that help or does anyone be like okay that helped like patrick's back no dynasty is definitely over okay so um all right let's do lamar's here patrick puts up insane numbers the chiefs are the you know a good but not great seed they're the three seed and for the first time in his career, he does not make a conference championship game because he loses in

round two to one of the other rival quarterbacks. Does that help or hurt Patrick standing? It would hurt him. It would hurt him. All right. Let's do Josh. Patrick wins league MVP. Team has a really good record. They get the two seed. And then to go back to the Super Bowl doesn't come through at the end and Josh beats him. Is anybody then being like, okay, Patrick has reclaimed it or they're like, oh, MVP be damn, Josh beat him. Now, do the flip side for any of those guys, all three of them, DeMonse, give them Patrick's year last year. they have mediocre stats, but lead the league in game winning drives and

comebacks, and he beats two of those guys in route. I'm sorry, any of the, those guys are the one seed and beat Patrick to get to the Super Bowl. Yeah. Imagine if I then went on TV and was like, yeah. But his touch there, you know, Lamar's touchdown interception ratio wasn't that impressive. I'm actually dinging him. It's just insane.

And so I know I'm the Kansas City guy. I know I have the tattoo that I still don't know how to show on camera. I still don't know what I'm supposed to do here. It's just a disaster. There we go. See, I don't even know what I'm. There we go. Everybody just hates greatness, man.

Um, well, it's just, here's the thing. It's just boring. It's just boring. And I, I also like, just one other thing because what has become very in vogue. And Bruce says it a lot. And he and I talked about this, not like to have like to talk about it, but discussed it on the air, um, the other, uh, the other day. which is because it's become very in vogue to say something on lines of like, oh, Mahomes is doing Brady's career in reverse.

Where Brady in the beginning won but didn't have the stats and Mahomes and then later in his career had the crazy numbers, Mahomes are, but it's just inaccurate. And here's what I mean. Mahomes early and every year of his career except the last two first five years, won and had MVP caliber stats. And the last two years, he's won, but he hasn't had the crazy numbers until the playoffs, right?

But this idea that Tom Brady post-2007 was just year-in, year-out, this statistical monster, it's just not true. So Tom Brady 2007 had at that point, the greatest quarterback season ever. He then misses 2008 due to injury. 2009, Tom Brady's team was 10 and 6,

and he had 28 touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and they lost their first playoff game. Then 2010, he had one of the greatest statistical seasons ever, 36 touchdowns, four picks, and 2011, he was in line with it, 39 touchdowns, 12 picks.

And then 2012, it's down to a 98 passer rating. And 2013, 25 touchdowns, 11 picks, and an 87 rating. That's in 2013. And then, obviously, 2014, they win the Super Bowl. 2015, he has an all-time, 2015, 16, 17, all-time stats years, where he has a combined doing the math. on the fly 96 touchdowns 15 picks a 108 rating over the course of three years but then the very next year 2018 they go 11 and 5 he has 29 touchdowns 11 picks but they win the super bowl

2019 24 touchdowns eight picks and 88 rating and leaves the patriots and then goes on the sick run in tampa the point i'm making is this even peak brady had these season like the season where it's like 29 touchdowns, 11 picks, 24 touchdowns, 8 picks, 25 touchdowns 11 picks. It was not every single year statistical excellence. It was every single year when the division make the playoffs and it is at the tail end of his Patriots tenure, every single year make a conference championship game. But it's just, we've got to be honest about what real expectations are. and we've got to be honest about what the guys who are allegedly in Patrick's league, if Patrick had the season they just had and they just had the season Patrick just had,

how would we view it? That's all I'm saying. Hey guys, we talked to you about my friends at Boost Mobile. Ever signed up for a phone plan thinking, wow, great price. And then a few months later, it's like, surprise, bills even higher. With Boost Mobile, you pay $25 a month forever. That's unlimited talk, text, and data starting at just $25 a month. No price hikes, no contract forever.

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We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's. Extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was...

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, Jonas, and offered it up. was a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The French Open is one of the toughest tests in tennis, and I know firsthand because I competed there myself. I'm Renee Stubbs, and on the Renee Stubbs Tennis podcast, I'm breaking down everything happening at Roland Garris. Every match, every upset, and what it really takes to win on clay.

Genschen went. I mean, she went down to three to Rabakina, but I'm delighted. She's an outsider to win the French for me. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lena Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any surface. Because if she's serving, well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open.

Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Imagine an Olympics where doping is not only legal but encouraged. It's the enhanced games. Some call it grotesque. Others say it's unleashing human potential. Either way, the podcast's Superhuman documented it all, embedded in the games and with the athletes for a full year.

Within probably 10 days, I'd put on 10 pounds. I was having trouble stopping the muscle growth. Listen to Superhuman on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, so a couple of QB polls came out, quarterback rankings, whatever you want to call them. So Bill Simmons debuted at his quarterback pyramid, and he had Josh Allen at the top. Dan Orlovsky came out with a bunch of traits that quarterback should have, was about six, and had Patrick Mahomes number one in about the same amount of categories as Daniel Jones. Which is zero.

Yeah. Yeah, zero. So which one of these is enraging you more? Which one do you want to end up? Oh, it's definitely Simmons's and we're going to deep dive on it because it is not lost on me that my pal, and I like Bill, Bill and I have a good relationship, but it is not lost to me that Bill Simmons kind of kicks off his full NFL coverage with a podcast that debuts a quarterback pyramid. and whose main guest is Kevin Wilds. I'm not saying that Bill's that this was a direct shot at me and, you know, trying to pull apart first things first,

but I'm not saying it wasn't. So I'll get to Bill in a second. But on Orlovsky's thing, listen, I'm not going to, I'm not going to argue with Dan. Dan obviously knows the quarterback position better than me. What I am going to say is this. arm strength. He has Josh Allen one, Patrick, too. No problem. I actually agree with that. And I actually think you could be tricky with that one. There might be, you might be able to say Herbert could be ahead of Patrick. Hell, I don't know if Joe Milton's eligible. Like he could be like just the raw arm strength. Josh Allen won is totally fine. No beef whatsoever. Then it gets dumb. ball placement

Patrick Mahomes five behind Joe Burrow again fine Jaden Lamar and Josh you know I think it's a good take I think a lot of people watch Lamar

Josh and Jaden and they're like they can just put it where they want better than Patrick Mahomes I was just thinking like how much of Burroughs is the fact that he has those crazy arm receivers. They're just kind of, well, no, I think Burrow is like dumb accurate

because he has to be because he's not very fast. Right. And he doesn't have the strongest arm. So the only way he can be as successful as he is is, is like, I think Burrow would maybe win the contest of that net drill that Caleb failed the other day. If they did that, but like made it harder and harder and harder, I think Burrow might be my number one pick. But call me crazy.

In that drill, I wouldn't take Lamar over Patrick. Again, maybe I'm a hater. Next one, we get to mechanics where you list 10 quarterbacks and Patrick's not one of them. And let me tell you, again, he has Lamar four. Yeah, I watch Lamar play quarterback, and I'm like, man, if only Patrick had as clean of mechanics as Lamar does. I do. Like I feel that way. I think it's a good take.

The other ones, and again, again, like the, if Gino, Dac and golf have better mechanics than Patrick, then maybe mechanics are overrated. But mechanics didn't, again, Patrick didn't make the top 10. Decision making with the football. That was warm. Patrick came in fifth. Again, and then this is the one that really I couldn't, I couldn't get over. Pocket presence.

Burrow one, Lamar, two, Patrick three. Okay. Like, whatever. I'm not gonna, I don't even, I don't even know what we're doing here. But fine. That's Orlovsky's list. He has a more fine-tuned eye for quarterback than me, I suppose. I think it is, I disagree with some of those, but that's not my real beef.

My real beef is with Bill. because Bill debuts his quarterback pyramid and has Josh Allen at the top. And the problem with that is, and here's the problem with having as long and as successful a career as Bill Simmons has had, and a career that so many folks, myself included, obviously, literally grew up reading every single one of your sports takes. Because Bill's column was must read for every sports fan of my generation for more than a decade. the problem with having that level of influence and being having that long of a career is Iromoff's kids

we remember what you fucking wrote and for 15 years boot the nail against the idea that anyone would ever under any circumstances consider Peyton Manning better than Tom Brady

even though for the entirety of those 15 years, Peyton had a strong, a far stronger case to be considered better than Peyton Manning. I'm sorry that let me back that up. Peyton had a far stronger case to be considered better than Brady. then Josh would have right now to be considered better than Patrick. And this is where all of these quarterback rankings are going to be self-defeating. But let me just quickly, off the top of my damn head, give you the Peyton versus Tom first decade history. when again, a reminder, my pal Bill built part of his massive empire on the take that Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning. If we go 2000 to 2005, Peyton has peeled MVP's, but Peyton is 0 and 2 in the playoffs against Tom.

Tom has three championships. Peyton has none. Peyton has never been to a Super Bowl. So even though Peyton Manning statistically speaking was the far superior quarterback with MVP's He had never beaten Tom in a big spot the championships were three to nothing then in 2006 Peyton not only wins another I'm sorry he's already won two MVP's at that point plays tom in the aFC championship game Tom's up I think 21 to 3 at halftime Peyton comes all the way back and wins the Super Bowl. Wins it. Beats Tom, the playoffs are now 2-1. Peyton wins the Super Bowl.

And Bill, I think, justifiably, is still, even though in that moment, all pros, Peyton has multiple Tom has zero. MVP's, Peyton has multiple Tom as zero. The playoff win-loss record is 2-1. The rings are 3-1. Bill is still strident, steadfast, correct. Tom's better. Seemingly vindicated by the fact that the next year, Tom finally wins his first MVP, team goes undefeated. They look like one of the greatest teams ever until as double-digit favorites, they get beaten the Super Bowl.

In that moment, even though the rings were 3-1, the MVP's were 2-1, the all-pros were 2-1, or 3-1, I'm not sure. And the playoff win-loss record was 2-1 in Tom's direction. In that moment, if anyone had debuted the take, Peyton has passed Tom because Tom didn't win the Super Bowl last year. Bill's head would have exploded. And then, by the way, over the next decade, Tom never beat Peyton in the playoffs again. there was a brief time in Denver where it looked like maybe Peyton had kind of overtaken the argument

and then Tom went on that unbelievable 2014 through 2020 run to cement himself as the goat. But every single football take we have heard for 20 years from Bill Simmons has valued, Playoff performance, doing it in the biggest spots, and if you've got the belt, someone's got to come take it from you. So when I saw the clip yesterday where the rationale for elevating Josh Allen, who is, again, unlike Peyton Brady, where Peyton had the stats and Brady, and Brady had the wins. Mahomes has more all pros, more MVPs, better career numbers,

five trips to the Super Bowl to zero, three rings to zero, and is four and O in the playoffs against him. When I hear the argument that Mahomes played so poorly in the, Super Bowl, he falls down a peg without the obvious follow-up being, why wasn't Josh in the Super Bowl bill? Because he couldn't beat Patrick again. And that is where, and again, I think Josh is the second best quarterback in the league. Now that Josh has a league MVP, I'm comfortable calling him a future Hall of Famer.

I think Josh eventually is going to break through. I think Josh's ability last year to cut down on the turnovers and still carry a team that wasn't all that talented at the skill position, certainly on the outside, was wildly impressive. but we have to stop acting like these have been unfair fights or Josh hasn't had his chance in back to back years in the playoffs once in Josh's building once in Patrick's building Josh has gotten the ball late fourth quarter down three points the firsts. the first time he can only get them to not the edge of field goal range, but not a give me field goal, 44 yarder if I remember.

And that would have only gotten them the tie with a couple minutes left. Has a chance, finish the game, ball in your hands, don't let Patrick come back and get it. They come away with zero points. then last year, down three, conference championship game, plenty of time, can't get to midfield. So do not do, you cannot. And this is why the quarterback ranking stuff right now can be so frustrating for people. Has Patrick played in the regular season his best ball the last couple of years?

No. But who are again, and I've said it before, I will say it again, if you want to argue, you know what? Jalen Hertz is the best quarterback in the league. I don't think anyone actually believes that except for maybe Jalen's lovely mother who dressed me down a bit the night before the Super Bowl. I don't even think Jalen believes that. But if you want to argue that, at least there is a case. case you can make. But for the other three guys, as I said a moment ago, the argument becomes instantly self-defeating. Urro's claim to fame is what he did in the first two, the first postseason and a half of his career, going into Arrowhead, beating Patrick, getting to the Super Bowl, then getting back to the AFC championship game. And then he had a pretty miserable second half with a chance to go to a second straight Super Bowl, got the ball, tie game, go get a field goal, got negative yards, loses, and has not been back to the postseason sense.

There is no time in the history of pro football when there have been multiple first ballot Hall of Famers active in their prime, where we would say, again, guy elevated himself to best quarterback in the league in a two-year stretch where he plays zero playoff games. Not eligible. Lamar, who is in the midst of arguably as good of a two-year regular season stretch as any player at his position ever, when that player, to varying degrees and this past year was the most positive sign has come up against the other two guys who he is in the debate with for who's the best and both games gotten outplayed by and lost. in the postseason, Patrick two years ago and Josh last year, he's not going to have it.

And across all of sports, except for maybe there were some people arguing Jerry West was better than Bill Russell. But with respect, as great as the Mahomes-Reed chiefs are, they are not the institutionally top-to-bobiles. a more talented team like the Russell Celtics. We have never made an argument that when every single year for a half decade, one guy beats and outplays another guy in the postseason, that the other guy's better. It's again, for the entirety of Peyton versus, is Brady when Peyton was a cult, that whole decade plus, they only played in the postseason

three times and it was two one Tom and it was still framed correctly as if Tom held over him in the postseason. Imagine if they played four times and it was four oh. Again, this is what I would ask my pal Bill. if Tom had beaten Peyton in 06 and then gone on to lose that Super Bowl and he was up 3-0 in the playoffs and the ring count was 3-0 and the Super Bowl count was 4-0 and someone made the argument that Peyton Manning was better based on Tom playing poorly in the this make-believe 2006 Super Bowl,

what would your reaction have been? And the answer is we know. So can we please, please have a level of consistency on this? That's all. Honestly, that didn't go quite as long as I thought. And again, I'm not trying to act like I invest. invented the pyramid-style ranking of quarterbacks. What I will say is, if you're going to really do it, each level has to be one player

bigger than the previous. You can't go one, two, three, four, five, five, five, five, five, five, that's not the idea. That's not how a pyramid looks either at the, and I mean, it's just not. I mean, I don't do that. That's a crayon. That's how a crayon looks. not how a pyramid looks. That's first of all.

Second of all, my buddy KW could have given you pointers on that when he was on the pod with you. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick.

And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions.

Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. You know, tired and sick, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.

Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends

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