The Herd with Colin Cowherd - What's Wright - Best Of - Tatum & Boston’s collapse, James Harden all-time choker, will Warriors survive without Steph?

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

Nick Wright breaks down the Boston Celtics’ back-to-back meltdowns against Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks. Where has Jayson Tatum gone? Nick shares why he believes Tatum will never be the best player in the NBA. Later, Nick explains why James Harden is the biggest choker in modern sports history before debating whether the Golden State Warriors will survive the Minnesota Timberwolves without Steph Curry. #Volume #HerdSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive. I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She can win.

She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now. And I actually can win on any service. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the best of the week for What's Right with Nick Wright.

The best takes and moments from this week on the show. Enjoy. So yeah, you went off on your show yesterday. You called James Hardin the biggest choker in modern sports history. Was that what you called him? Yeah. So do you think that's fair? Who else is in the argument?

I just need someone to tell me who the other contenders are. And here's the deal. I'm going to pull up these numbers real quick. So Hardin, LeBron, Steph, Durant. Those are the four guys of the era. And as far as just having

They threw Chris Paul in there. Uh, okay, sure. Yeah, maybe I should have included Chris Paul, but I didn't. But that's, and that's a fair one. But I just want to give you these numbers. Career playoff games, DeMonsei. Less than four made baskets. Durant has two.

Steff has three. LeBron has five. Give me a guess for Hardin. Just give a number. Hardin. All right. So you said those guys' numbers all go nine? 35.

Yeah. And those guys have obviously played a lot more than him. Well, I don't, Hardin's played a bunch. I don't, LeBron's played a lot more. But, but, you know,

Hardin was, okay, hold on. That was. So again, 35 career playoff games with less than four, How many of those were on O KC? A decent amount, but again, the only one you can really throw out is the like his,

you want to throw out a, you know, 10 of those games because it was young, young James Harden. Right. But he was, you know, sixth man of the year. A, and going two for 10 in the finals. All right. Hold on. I got a couple more for you.

career playoff games with under five made baskets. Again, I'll give you the numbers for everyone else. KD4, Steph 8, LeBron 9, James Hardin, 55. Okay, yeah. And then last one, career playoff games where you have at least as many turnovers or more turnovers than made shot. shots. Durant 7. Step 13. LeBron 17. James Harden. More turnovers than made shots? Yes. All right. Yeah. That's surprise me for them. Guys. Go ahead. Step 13. LeBron 17.

James Hardin. 42. 42. More turnovers than made shots. It's the biggest one right there. or as many turnovers has made shots, as many or more. So here's the thing. So even if you want to be like, well, those first two stats were about, you know, he wasn't playing as many minutes, he's off the bench, that clears that up. And it's just, DeManzi, I used to be the biggest hardened defender. He had such a horrific game six against San Antonio in 2017 when Kowazzo. I and Tony Parker were out and the Rockets lost by 39 points that I said I thought he had an undiagnosed concussion.

It's just, and so there is, there is no comp for it. And so if people want to, we don't have to, it's just at this point who he is. The moment gets too big. See like he was turning, it was turning around there for a second. He always has these moments. and then it's the game six or a game seven and he takes seven shots. He takes eight shots. He has, he has, I think six playoff games where he was two for ten, two for eleven or two for twelve from the field.

Ask this follow up about Russ and then we'll get to the Warriors. So who do you think will end up having a better legacy when it's all said and done between Russ and Hardin? So I think this is really, it depends on what you've vowed. you. So Hardin's a better all-time player. And like he has the he's going to have better numbers. It on better teams of more of a part of winning. They both won one MVP. But a, Russ is going to be an icon. And Hardin is going to be a, a placeholder for choking. Like people are going to like a choke artist and the future. Exactly right. And so the answer is Russ. Like the answer is definitely rust.

Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high-octane world of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range of programming that goes beyond the game. From action-packed live events to gripping behind-the-scenes documentaries to hard-hitting investigative pieces and in-depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams. Vice Sports captures the raw energy, passion that makes sports truly unforgettable. Catch live events and other exclusive sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vice TV.com to find your cable channel. The Knicks deserve.

They deserve to be the story, but they are not the story. The Knicks deserve to have us talking about how they have gone to Boston. They have been down 20 points in the second half in both of these games. They have not played great honestly in either game yesterday McHale Bridges is terrible for the first three quarters before being awesome. Jalen Brunson is six of 19 in the game with a few minutes left in the game he had made four shots and it's not like he was getting he had made four shots and got to the free throw line once and and they found a way to win, and they deserve credit for that. But the story, and we will, I promise, we'll spend a lot of time on the Knicks.

But the story is Boston. The Knicks story is about what I said on Tuesday, planning for this moment for more than a year. And there being a lot of similarities to what, how Minnesota was able to beat Denver to what we are seeing with the Knicks and the Celtics. Let's table those and we will get to those shortly. Because the story really is the defending champs falling apart in real time, physically and mentally.

And now let me make this clear. I don't think it's over. I don't think like oh no chance the Celtics come back the Celtics are talented enough and good enough obviously to win four out of five against New York in fact most people thought they were going to win four out of five against New York they just thought it was gonna be the first five games that this is gonna be a nice friendly gentleman sweet but we are now here everyone's going to focus on the three point variance and I get it 25 of 100 from 3 15 of 60 in

game 1 the exact same percentage in game 2 except they were 10 of 40 I actually don't think that is that might be the biggest reason they're down I don't think that is the biggest story surrounding them being down the biggest story surrounding them being down is Jason Tatum and we gave him all his flowers and all the credit for what was without a doubt at least to my eye the best regular season of his career I understand he didn't even have it wasn't the best numbers he's average almost exactly this many points. He's averaged 26.8 or 26.9 points three of the last four years. Uh, his, you know, his numbers in the one year he didn't, he averaged 30. His numbers

have been consistent. His field goal percentage has been consistent. And it wasn't that he played more games. It was just this felt like the best Tatum year because you didn't get a great year from Jalen Brown by his standards. Horford's a year or older. You saw some deterioration from Drew Holiday over the course of the year and yet Tatum answered the bell on both ends of the court every night and and this is the key piece not the key but one of the key pieces of it responded from what was a really weird few months for him where he finally wins a championship but he's not the conference finals MVP

He's not the finals MVP. He actually plays some of his worst basketball of the season last year in the biggest games most notably those two C or the conference finals and NBA fund was still. It's not like he was bad, but he just dropped a level that then was compounded by the fact that Steve Kerr, who obviously is that despite what lunatic Warrior fans would try to tell you. Steve Kerr, who obviously is one of the best and smartest basketball minds we have, Steve Kerr saw Jason Tatum in the Olympics and said, can't use you. Sorry, would love to, but actually, you're not one of our eight best. And he responded to all of that with a year where he had an argument. he was the third best player in the league. And where there was no argument whatsoever,

he was one of the four best players in the league. And for that to then, and then let me add another piece to it. After a kind of rocky game one of the playoffs, but who cared, they won, it was easy. Where he got hurt, he then came back after missing a game, averaging 36, 11, and 6 the rest of the series. It's like, holy shit.

This extra level that Bill Simmons has been swearing on his children exists for years. For Jason Tatum, we're seeing it. And then in back-to-back games. He is 12 of 42 from the field. He is 5 of 20 from 3. He is a total and complete non-factor in the fourth quarter of these games. The only play he made last night was when the Knicks screwed up a switch and he got a wide open dunk. And now, listen, I'll just tell you.

you what I said to Kevin Wilds when I facetined him yesterday. And I know this is going to sound unfair, but it's just how I feel. And I, it's not prisoner of the moment because I have felt this way about Tatum forever. He's an excellent player. But what I said to Wilds is, I don't care if the Celtics win the next three championships. He's never going to be the best player in the league. that guy is not the best player in the league. And I don't even think his bit, the reason I said that to Wilds is because he keeps trying to force the conversation of Jason Tatum's going to force this into some really tricky conversations.

What do we do with the 27 year old with two rings and four first team all MBAs and all of this? What does that mean for where he is historically? And my answer to that is Tatum is an excellent player. He is not yet in the, we need to evaluate his historical greatness level. And I don't know that he is going to be in that conversation. There is, and I can't put my finger on it, but there's something that's just not there. I think he gets a little tight in big spots is what it seems like to me. Watching the games.

It feels to me like if his three isn't falling, it knocks him off the rest of his game. And what is, and here is the Celtics piece. And I just did Levitard show. And this is the point I was trying to make. The Celtics. Bomb 3 strategy over the long haul, obviously, it's just a smart mathematical strategy. As sample sizes get smaller, you put yourself more at, you know, the mercy of the variance. It's, you know, the team that really originated this strategy was Darry's Rockets.

but here's why for Daryl Morey's rockets, it made total sense. The team they were trying to beat, the KD Staff Warriors, was flatly better than them. So they needed to shake up the snow globe and add some damn variants. because if we just go, go to the middle of the ring and trade jabs, we got no shot. So instead, we're going to throw some wild haymakers and risk getting knocked out because that's our chance. This strategy for the Celtics maybe would make sense if this were the NBA finals against Oklahoma. city and they feel like they're better than us. All year long they've been better.

They have the better resume. They, they, they, their best players better than our best player. They're better than us. So let's add some uncertainty to it. Up 20 points in the second half against the New York Knicks. The last thing you want is to add uncertainty. It's an insane way to, it's not an insane way to play. It's insane to Monzae not to adjust.

Yeah. And not to have, it's a team, it's a football team that their identity is chucking it deep. And up 10 in the fourth quarter, they refuse to run the ball. that and here's the other piece of it you've got jason tatum he's six eight he's an amazing shape he he can get to the hoop and it is it is stubbornness that at this point might cost him their title defense And it's the first 20 point lead I said it Tuesday the Knicks made that a game faster than any team I can remember It was 20 points Boston up by 20 with five and a half left in the third and it was a six point game With a minute left in the third so the Knicks just in the span of ten possessions

made it a game again yesterday was different in that, yes, it was 20, and then the Knicks chipped away. But it was, go ahead. We were holding it. Like we stayed out in front for a minute and we just kept shooting the three. And they just kept chipping it away. It was 14 with seven minutes left. And so I, if you look at the Celtics fourth quarter shot chart,

They did, you know, they didn't just shoot threes. It wasn't the third quarter in game three. But there were just these moments. Most notably was the one Wilde took the picture of. But it is, it's a jarring image where it is 8677. Is that I want to make sure I have it. I think it's, yeah. or the let me try to pull up i should just pull up wild's tweet um because it is it's a wild

decision by it's 86 79 pardon me and i don't know why this isn't showing me that but regardless don't worry about it oh here's why because it wasn't i was like i thought it was 86 because the score remember here's a sneaky important part of the game that will be forgotten in history. The Knicks got an extra point during a timeout because they had called a Jalen Brunson three, a two, and then they fixed it. Oh, Mikhail Bridges, pardon me. And so the score,

the scoreboard says 8679, but it was actually 8680. And Derek White misses a three. McHale Bridges then goes. goes down, misses a three. And Josh Hart tries to save it and starts the fast break. And all of a sudden, and we can put the image up, Jason Tatum finds himself in this position. I don't think, DeMonsei, I like that,

I, well, I don't think I like shooting that three. if I'm the team trailing by seven. Like I don't think it's the smarter move. You got a dunk right there. You have a dunk. It's not recovering. Like he's like going to try to get out the way. And by the way.

Hands and knees. It's and here's the other thing. If Jalen Brunson is upright, you might have a dunk there. Oh yeah. You're seven inches taller than. Horford's there you have a full head of steam that is an impossible decision now you can be like listen what does Jason Tatum shoot on corner threes blah blah again you're ups you're actually up six but you think you're up seven

it's bananas and the very next possession we don't have a picture of it but Jalen Brown has an alley to the basket And he takes a pull-up three. Yeah. And so it's just, it is. The Knicks just finally want it more is what it seems like. Well, they are certainly more comfortable, de Monzae, if it's closely. Yeah.

That is undeniable. And the fact that the Knicks have now won five road playoff games. And they have won them. They have played five road playoff games. They are five and oh. And they have won those five games by a combined. This is really unbelievable. Six points.

They have won those five games by a combined ten points. Ten. One in overtime. They won game three against Detroit by two. Game four against Detroit by one, game six against Detroit by three, game one against Boston by three, and in overtime, and game two against Boston by one. It is a remarkable turn of events. The NBA, 82 game grind is done now.

fun can begin. The playoffs are here. Time for all the high stakes drama clutch moments and jaw-dropping plays. Can't wait. If you're looking to make the playoffs even more exciting, draft King's Sportsbook has you covered as an official sports betting partner of the NBA, from the playing games all the way through to the finals. Now's the time to back your favorite players and teams as they chase glory. All season long, draft Kings has been the go-to spot for NBA player props and that does not stop now want to make your playoff experience even more intense try placing a bet on your favorite players performance will they drop 30 40 more your call ready to place your first bet download the draft king sports book app now lock in your bets and let's make this playoff run

unforgettable something special for first timers new draft kings customers bet five dollars to get $200 in bonus bets instantly make it a playoff run to remember with draft kings download the drafting sports book app and use code right that's code right w r i ght for new customers to get two hundred dollars in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks only on draft kings the crown is yours gambling problem call one 800 gambler in new y call eight seven seven eight hope in why or text hope in y which is four six seven three six nine in Connecticut help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-78-98-9-77 or visit ccpg.org.

Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino and Resort in Kansas. 21 plus age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance for additional terms and responsible gaming resources. C.DKNG.C.com. C.O. slash B-Ball. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast. Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a first people to do podcasts.

Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas.

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter.

Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month,

I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro.

Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app.

Search learn the hard way and listen now. All right, let's go on to Warriors, Two Wolves. Warriors won game one on the row without Steph. I think he went out like eight minutes left in the second quarter. They still pulled that off. I think he suffered a hamstring strain. It's going to be out at least a week. Do you give the Doves any chance to win without Steph?

No. And I thought that was a great win by them, and I thought Steve Kerr was brilliant. and playing 13 guys adjusting on the fly and Buddy Heald. Like these last two games with Buddy Heald, it reminds you of how great the Warriors were when they had Prime Clay Thompson because the last two games Buddy Heald has been Prime Clay Thompson. It's been really impressive.

You give them no chance to win this series if Steph is out, call it. I mean, this is seven more days is the series over. by then? No, they, but the Warriors could lose like one game. The earliest he could be back, realistically, is game six. Because they play tonight, Saturday, so that's game,

so let me do it like this. They already played game one. Tonight is game two. Saturday is game three. Monday is game four. Wednesday is game five. Then they don't play. Did I do that?

wrong they play Thursday sat me I did do that no Thursday Saturday Monday Wednesday and then the next game is Sunday I think the if the Knicks can go out there and do that to the Celtics it went the second game I think the Warriors can go back and and beat them without Steph Curry but it's just I just don't listen I don't I think Jimmy's been good but not unbelievable I I think Buddy Heald is going to keep hitting. I think Buddy Heald is going to regress more to the mean there. And I also think, and this was, do you guys remember when the Lakers went down 3-1 to Minnesota? And I came on here and said, I don't think necessarily the series is over, it obviously was.

But the Lakers' title hopes are done. And the reason I said was because now the only way to get out of round one is they have to play every other day, win a game seven, and then start a series where they're playing every other day for the entirety of it, basically. And there are too old and too thin of a team in order for that to be an effective path. essentially.

That is now where the Warriors are and you saw it immediately bite Steph. A player who has never had a hamstring injury in his life ended up having to play every other day against that Rockets defense running around like that. Windy said that since they've started tracking this, game seven against Houston was the most

like mileage staff has run on the court in a game in his career and a quarter and a half into the next game, he suffers his first ever hamstring injury. Like every game matters. And the Warriors kind of punted game five against Houston and then let go of the rope in the fourth quarter of game six. And all of a sudden they find themselves in a game seven. And then all of a sudden you find yourself two days later,

playing in a game one and even though you win it, that's the ultimate win the battle, lose the war. And so no, listen, I think the Timberwolves, we're talking about three point regression with the Celtics. Timberwolves are now like 12 of 70 over their last two games or something insane. And so I don't, I think that when we get to game five,

it's going to be 3-1. I think we're going to be, I think Minnesota's going to win the next three is the short version of it. And I think it's going to be 3-1 going back to Minnesota. And here's the other piece. They ruled stuff out a week immediately.

So game 6 is the earliest he could come back. That's probably not realistic. But even if he is back for game 6, are you going to get a fully healthy fully functional stuff. I don't know. So yeah, I think the Warriors are done.

I think Kerr's done a great job. I think Jimmy's been good. And Drayman the last two games to go along with what had been great defense, he actually provided some offensive punch. I don't think any of that sustainable. What are your follow-ups here? A couple of

follow-ups. So Chris Finch head coach came out and said we had one-and-half, one point in the first half, you're the leader of the team and you've got to come out and set the tone. If your shot's not going, you still have to carry the energy. Yeah, how do you feel about that? Yeah, I, so Chris Finch is not afraid to kind of call out his star player.

And Aunt clearly disagreed with him. Aunt said, you know, I thought I just my shot wasn't falling. I was still there on defense. I think Chris Finch has done a really good job. I also think that I It wouldn't make sense for aunt to be tired They only played five against the Lakers It's only round two. He's 23 years old

We did see last year He said he got exhausted by the conference finals I am not yet ready to say I think that is happening I am ready to say it is something to monitor But I think Ant's going to come out and be outstanding tonight and, you know, he finally hit some shots and he'll be fine. So I'm not, I'm not panicked about that.

And I also am not as angry at Ant for the laughing about the three-point shooting. Brew was pissed. Brew was like, he's got to be more serious. I just think Ant is so overly confident that is so incredibly confident, that sometimes he feels like, everything's going to be fine. And that can be a gift and a curse, I think he'll be fine. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers.

I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you

funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Reader. Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Winning on Clay is an art. The rallies are relentless. And at the French Open, only the toughest survive.

I'd know. I competed there for decades. Join me, Renee Stubbs, on the Renee Stubbs' tennis podcast for no-nonsense breakdowns of the biggest matches, the toughest players, and the moments that define Roland Garris. She's an outsider to win the French fame. And she likes Clay. Listen, Lina Rubakina is arguably the best player in the world right now.

And I actually can win on any surface. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcasts on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation.

I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.