The Herd with Colin Cowherd - Zion Williamson, The Lakers, Kevin Durant, Danny Ainge & the NBA Draft

Episode Date: June 20, 2019

Doug Gottlieb, in for Colin Cowherd, explains why today's NBA Draft has a similar feeling to the 2003 NBA Draft and it is all because of Zion Williamson. He explains why Kevin Durant's pending free agency decision may be based on fear of the unknown. Doug says that the Anthony Davis trade has had unintended consequences for Rob Pelinka and the Lakers. Plus, Doug compares Danny Ainge to the New England Patriots.Guests Include: Jeff Goodman, Kevin O'Conner and Ryen Russillo. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo, and every episode, we're cutting through the noise,

breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her.

What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, Wreck, my mama want you to weigh better. What? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs. We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was harmed. you just understood.

That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Mark keep coming to her. He's like, you know I love you, dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs.

This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to The Heard podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday from 12 to 3 Eastern, 9 to noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and FS1. Find your local station for the Heard at Fox SportsRadio.com or stream us live every day on the IHeartRadio app by searching

heard. You're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome in. This is the herd, wherever you may be in, however you may be making as part of your day. Thanks so much. Live from Los Angeles, I'm Doug Gottlie. Filling in for Colin Cowherd, happy draft day to you as the NBA draft will take place in New York City later on tonight. We've got great draft coverage right here on Fox Sports Radio, starting at 7 Eastern 4 Pacific. Chris Broussard, Rick Buecker, Jason McIntyre, who's looking for a pair of sock-y hoop shoes, I believe. All right.

Maybe it'd be a new balance guy like Kauai Leonard. And, of course, with the draft brings likely draft day trades. We'll cover all of it for you right here in the herd. Jeff Goodman from Stadium Sports. will join us this hour. Kevin O'Connor from The Ringer and my man Ryan Rosillo also from the ringer and from ESPN will join us later on in the show. And we'll talk about all things NBA draft

as well as the NBA in general where the stories always continue to evolve and the level of competence continues to be called into question with the L.A. Lakers. What really is going on with the Boston Celtics? Oh hey, I actually got some base. stuff for you. Believe it or not, something historic happened last night in baseball. I'm convinced that nobody gives a Paul Goldschmidt about some of the things going on in baseball, even

though we are likely watching the greatest baseball player to ever play baseball do crazy things on a baseball field. So a lot to get to. But tonight's the NBA draft. And my first NBA draft as a member of the media was in 2003. Now, like, corporations pay big money to hear this kind of speech, but what happened was I had worked a year in covering college basketball

for ESPN, for what was then called ESPN Plus, and for Cowboys Sports Properties, and I had a radio show in Oklahoma City on WWLS, the Sports Animal. The Mods, squad middle of the day show there you go so i'd done this for oh we started probably in september right or august maybe and what it happened was i got offered a job to do college

basketball games i've been playing professionally overseas and i knew about how much i can make to play overseas i knew how much i was going to get paid to do college basketball games which is not a lot and I wanted to fill in that gap so that I would start to have a chance at a new career, but I didn't want to make less money. And I didn't. It ended up being a great thing for me. I did a year of radio and college basketball. And then I went and played in France, in Clermont-Feron, France.

Huh? Huh? That's honestly, all I know of French is, Yes. No. One, two, three, Cat, right? That's all I know. And I also know the town of Clement Feron. So I was in Claremont Feron and I, we actually played a friendly against Boris Diao's team. There's a couple of other

French players that were in that NBA draft. The previous year I had been playing in Israel and we played twice in a cup league against Darko Milisich. So my sale when I came back state side, I called the guy who had hired me to do college basketball games and said, hey, my dad's an AU coach, my brother's a college basketball coach, I've covered college basketball. I know the high school basketball scene. This back again, high school guys could come straight out. LeBron was coming out of the draft. But do you have anybody who's played against international guys ever? And he said, no, but I can't use you. They had Fran Fashilla doing the international stuff, I believe it. See, that's when he was his first year. And they had

Jay Billis and the rest for NBA guys. So he pawned me off on a guy named John Martin, who goes by the nickname Chief and said, maybe Chief will use you with radio. So I couldn't get a hold of Chief. He wasn't a big return of phone calls sort of guy.

Maybe it was because he had a cell phone and I was just beginning to have like a proper cell phone. Again, this was 2003. I think those Nokia phones were still big then. Man, 2003 feels like eons ago, really is. So I flew to New York

and did a movie audition. This is a true story. Spike Lee's brother was making a basketball movie. I don't know if it ever launched, but they needed a smart-ass white guy, basketball player. I thought I fit the bill. They flew me in. I did the audition. I wasn't very good. And I popped over to

New Jersey to watch the Nets played the Spurs. Game 6 NBA final. Steve Curtin played in the first half. hit three threes late in the game to win the game and win the series. But I only went there to rub elbows with the people who are doing the NBA draft the next week. I run in the guy named Chief. And he's like, yeah, I heard you. You want to do the draft?

We'll fly in next week. Call this number and we'll get you set up. So I fly in and I think we're staying somewhere like the Marriott Marquis. And the first order of business was to go to the, these player press conferences. I don't know. This is a 2003 draft, and Chris Bosch walks in, and I had met Chris Bosch. I played basketball at Oklahoma State. He was a superstar growing up in Dallas. And the way it worked then, still works this way now, is those guys would come up for big games,

our place or other place. So I'd known who he was. I knew how good he was. He's a super bright, super nice kid, played one year at Georgia Tech. Then Dwayne Wade came in. everybody knew what Dwayne Wade was because he had played at Marquette and played in the Final Four. And he was really interesting to listen to talk. And Darko came in and I had known Darko, but it wasn't, and he was kind of like the international man of mystery. And then Carmelo Anthony came. And of course it's in New York.

He just won a national championship with Syracuse. He had a great smile. He had a good presence about him. And you felt like all three of the, all the three Americans, felt like stars, right? Then in-watch's LeBron James. There's an expression in basketball.

It goes like this. His sneakers squeak differently than other people's. Like, I don't, I'd watch LeBron play and obviously some of it was the bias of having seen him, not just dominate high school basketball,

but every time there was a big made for TV or made for some sort of entertainment event, like he was just better than everybody. else. He just was. I came out of high school in 1995. I was a fill-in in the Magic's roundball classic. And it had, you know, Vince Carter, Stefan Marbury, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett wasn't there for practice because he was studying for the SAT. Took the SAT Saturday. The game was Sunday. And when he showed up, he was that much better than everybody else. That's how LeBron appeared

on the court. And then when LeBron walked into the press comment, she was like, wah. Like it was just a different level of human being. And there's a, you know, the Spaniards, when they invaded Mexico, they used to ride in on their white horse. They would wear white because they wanted to appear to be godlike. And that's how LeBron appeared. He was just bigger than life.

His smile was bigger. his muscles were bigger. Everything about him was like, I don't know what a what a superstar looks like normally when they're 18 or 19, but that's what it feels like. I bring it up because

16 years later, I don't want to put that he'll be LeBron because I don't think he is LeBron. I think he plays very differently. But there's a lot of things that make up guys into stars. Some is just their look,

superstar look. Some is in their name, Shakespeare. What is in the name? I don't know, but LeBron, Kobe, Zion. I don't know if he'll be as good as people in the NBA hope he will be. I don't.

But there is something different about the way his sneakers squeak. Just are. No, he's only 6'5 in change. If you see him in front, person in a basketball uniform at least saw him this year. He does look like a guy that like if you've ever been to a high school basketball game

and the star football player just gets out of pads and throws on a uniform, that's like he's thick and NBA players usually don't have thick legs and there's no fat on him. He's just thick. He's country strong. There's that photo of him grabbing the basketball this year against Louisville where the basketball

is like indented from his strength. it feels like it's that type of presence over this year's NBA draft. Is the draft, does it have a litany of superstars? Or stars even? Probably not. Has a lot of guys that we've barely seen. I could make the argument to you that this is the biggest reason why we continue to diminish the value of college basketball. College basketball sells you on these guys time and again.

And with the one and done, if it moves to the none and done, you're going to have draft where it's just to come. complete crapshoot. You have no idea and there's no real following. Like the reason you're in on Zion is because you saw him play at Duke. You saw him play in these games and you saw him take over and how much better he appeared to be than other like competition at his age. Put a Duke uniform on him and the whole thing explodes in terms of popularity. He made Duke likable. So I don't look in my in our lifetime we've had the Freddie Adieu's who was like 15 pro clubs

I know he's doing a youth sports thing now like in Baltimore or in D.C. or something. I just read an article on Freddie Adieu like whatever happened to Freddy Adieu. Like literally never understood what it was like to get along with teammates or to improve and to evolve. He got many a shot with some of the biggest clubs.

He was with Man You for like a two-week tryout stint. and he got played with the national team. He was supposed to be the great hope. He was supposed to be the play of American soccer. And he wasn't. But we have had Tiger, who we were told would be the greatest ever. And though he has not yet to pass Jack,

you could easily make that argument that he's the greatest golf forever. And you have LeBron, who we were told would be the greatest ever. And I would still say Jordan, but there are people that make the other argument that he's right there. like that's a lot to live up to being told at a young age the interesting thing about Zion was nobody thought he would be the best ever a year ago maybe nobody thinks he'll be the best ever now

but he didn't grow up with the pressure of being told that he was going to be a superstar the way that Tiger did or the LeBron did through high school but a YouTube sensation combined with one season at Duke combined with an exploding shoe, combined with the power of the NCAA tournament, the power of the best rivalry in college basketball, all of these things combined

with a great smile, good hair, perfect name, and kind of an odd G. Shuck's sway about him. And he seems to play because he likes to play basketball, and he has fun playing basketball. And it feels like, it feels more like 2003 than it's felt like since 2003.

I'm not saying he's going to be better than Kevin Durant and Kevin Durant did some things as a freshman at Texas that Zion didn't do. I don't know if Zion's going to be as good as Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant, by my estimation, before he got hurt, was the best player in the NBA. Taking the throne from LeBron James and was the next guy.

but man, there's a lot of, there's a lot of boxes that are checked. And it makes me excited. Like, I like to watch the draft. I've been into it. I follow it. I can go 80 deep on names on guys that I like. There's a new podcast, All Ball podcast. Me and Jonathan Gavoni from Draft Express go through so many of the guys in the draft.

But man, I wish I could see Zion Williamson play tonight in the NBA, don't you? and how many guys have you seen drafted that you're legitimately excited about seeing them in that uniform for the first time? Probably got a handful at best. All right, coming up next. Jeff Goodman from Stadium Sports joins the show. Does he think Zion will live up to the hype? Plus, should teams be worried about signing Kyrie Irving in free agency? And who's the star player who will be traded tonight? We get to all that next. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1, and the IHeart Radio app.

Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room. stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 and the TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about

wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway And listen now. What's up, guys?

This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Clivert Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this guy, this linebacker walks up to me. He goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What?

Come on out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcasts presents soccer moms.

So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider.

This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the... the back of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drink. Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? They had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar or something here?

Just hit it. What are y'all doing? Microphones? Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake.

That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky. I'm not a drug addict. You're lucky I'm not an alcoholic. You are. You're lucky I'm not a killer. I love this team, and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh.

Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin, this is the herd. You're on Fox Sports Radio app. Let's welcome in Jeff Goodman. Stadium Sports covers all things basketball. I want to get to tonight's draft in a second, but your home. home is in the Boston area. You have a ton of connections within the Celtics. I do find it curious that out of the woodworks have come some Danny Aange haters, right? Like, which, I mean,

and I have no idea how you feel about it. So I'm not, I, there's no pre-interview. There was no discussion between you and I and text or on the phone. I just look at it and I'm like, okay, the guy has pulled off some of the greatest trades, maybe in the history of the NBA, definitely the recent history of the NBA. in free agency, which I'm told Boston's a tough town to get free agents. They got Al Horford when nobody thought they were going to get Al Horford. Then they got Gordon Hayward, which makes sense, I guess. And then they traded for Kyrie Irving.

Like in terms of, we're very result-oriented, but in terms of process, their process was really good. Is it because people don't like Aange? People don't like Boston? Because they didn't pull off a Kauai move last summer? What is, what do you think is behind the sudden, sudden Danny Age hatred? Well, I think it just went from a point where everybody was like, you have all these assets. Why didn't you make a move? Why didn't you get Kauai?

Look at what Toronto did. Masayu Jiri. Look at what he did. He got Kauai and they won a title. Well, listen, most people actually kind of ridiculed Mossad when he made that trade thinking, like, yeah, you got him for a year. Maybe you'll get to the Eastern Conference finals. and then Kauai's going to L.A. Nobody thought they'd actually win it all this year.

I mean, the stars had to be aligned perfectly with KD getting hurt, and Clay getting hurt, and all that. And they had to make a shot against the 76ers, which hit the front rim twice, the back rim twice, and then went in. I've watched a lot of basketball. I've never seen a ball bounce like that.

Look, and oh yeah, by the way, oh, yeah, by the way, if Kevin Rand doesn't tear his Achilles' Tendon, and Clay Thompson doesn't get hurt and they lose in the NBA finals are we saying the same thing forget about if they because they could have gone to overtime against Sixers and won that game

let's say they win that they lose in the NBA finals they get swept what is it a success story do we look at it the same? No no it's a cute story right it's a cute story Toronto being relevant up until the end

but with the title now it's everybody saying well they should have went after Kaua they should have went after Anthony Day And I get it. Like Boston fans are saying themselves, this thing is unraveling right now. And maybe we could have had Anthony Davis.

Well, my take to that is, again, Rich Paul made it clear. Like David Griffin, there was nobody else in the mix other than the Lakers that was going to put forth a mega offer because they all understood the deal at the end of the day, which is Anthony Davis was going to be a one-year rental. You're not giving up Jason Tatum for him. Yeah, maybe you're giving up. Jalen Brown and some other pieces and picks, but that wasn't going to get it done. That wasn't a better offer than Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram and all those picks and

Josh Hart. That was actually pretty good, all things considered, because Griff was bidding like there was nobody else in the bidding war. Okay, so what do the Celtics do? You hope to hell that Jason Tatum turns out to be a number one guy. You hope to hell that Gordon Hayward comes back towards what he was and becomes a good number two guy. Jalen Brown takes a step forward again. They run. They play the style that worked a year and a half ago in the playoffs, which was getting up and down where Jalen Brown is at his most

effective. Same thing with Terry Rozier. You match whatever it is, probably $13, $50 million a year from somebody at a three-year deal. You bring Rozier back. And you see if you can make a trade. And if you don't, you go out and try to get a big that can help. I don't know. And it's Canter for a year or two? Do you make a run at Marcus? Seoul, who would be perfect? I don't think he's leaving Toronto, but he'd be perfect as like a two-year deal. But I wouldn't pay Al Horford a four-year deal worth $110 million either.

No, I think the Al-Horford passing on Al-Horford is smart. Like, I don't, what are we going to change? It's a car. Yeah, is it like? It's hard to realize for Boston fans now that are thinking they still have a chance. They want Kyrie out. 90% of Boston fans were so sick of him. He had become so unlikable, kind of say everything about it.

And obviously, the fact of the matter was she was terrible in the Milwaukee series. And the dude doesn't even get up there and say, hey, my bad. He kind of blames it on everybody else. Instead of just taking the bull by the horns and saying, this is my fault. This is on me. I'm the best player. If he had done that done, the whole kind of mantra of Kyrie here might have been different, at least before he bolted out of town of Brooklyn.

The Brooklyn thing's interesting because I was led to believe they have unbelievable chemistry, right? They do. And I get it that they think, like, look, DeAngelo Russell had a terrible reputation. No one liked him in the league. And he was an all-star replacement this year. We can do that with DeAngelo Russell. We can do that with Kyrie Irving. I just feel like Kyrie Irving might be too far gone.

Like, how does he fit into that culture? The Celtics had great culture. They brought in Kyrie Irving. The culture got, they had all kinds of chemistry issues. Why would the Nets think they're any different to bring in a Kyrie Irving? Well, I think the Celtics still probably had more overall talent, right? Before they brought in Kyrie, again, with bringing in Gordon and him being closer. They have more talent overall.

And I think that hurt them in a sense that there were too many mouths to feed in Boston this year. And there was more than Kyrie. Listen, it was Gordon Hayward. It was that Brad Stevens was giving Gordon Hayward a lot of minutes, especially early on in the first half of the season. And these dudes, Marcus Morris, Jalen Brown, Jason Dayton, are all kind of thinking of themselves, like, why is he playing? Why is he playing?

He's not ready to play extended minutes. But Brad Stevens was trying at, number one, see if he could get Gordon back to what Gordon was for the playoffs. Number two, listen, Brad Stevens is a huge. We both know him as a human being. He wanted to see Gordon Hayward get back. He felt, he felt bad. Whether it was a kid he recruited in high school at Butler or not. I don't think it would have mattered.

I think Brad Stevens is just that type of human being that felt like, hey, I'm going to try to get this guy back. Yeah, I also think he's making a lot of money. And you don't want to have a lot of – and they're playing the long play to see if he could be ready by the playoffs. Get him – Sure. You know, keep throwing him out there, get him ready so that by the playoffs, he was right,

and they gambled and they were wrong. All right, let's get to tonight's NBA draft. I've been doing this now. This is 16, March 16 years. My real first big national assignment was the NBA draft. That was LeBron walked in. And I was like, look, there was Chris Bosch, who looked like a great, smart kid that I knew a little bit.

There was Dwayne Wade who appeared to have this star smile. Carmelo Anthony, who had control of the room. Like all three of those guys look different than the rest of the prospects. And then there was LeBron who was just different. It was just different than anybody else. Are you okay putting Zion, not

necessarily talent-wise in that category, but in terms of presence and effect on a room and the dynamic on the sport somewhere in that discussion, that LeBron discussion. He actually reminds me a lot of

LeBron at the same age in terms of how they can command a room. in terms of just, you know, that charisma, that charisma, the likability factor. LeBron had it. He doesn't have it like he had it back then in terms of, obviously, he's rubbed some people the wrong way, just arrogance, whatever. But he didn't really have it back then, and Zion doesn't have any of that. I mean, Zion is like elite level.

Everybody loves him. You talk to anybody about him. the smile, the charisma, the vulnerability, no arrogance whatsoever. Listen, nobody's going to sell more jerseys than Zion next year. Nobody, period. Okay, so then after Zion, everybody says John Morant. And then there's RJ Barrett, although the Knicks, within the last 24 hours, have brought in both Kobe White and Darius Garland.

You and I both know. That ain't happening. It's RJ. It's RJ all the way. So why bring them in? Well, because you might as well. I mean, it's like you're doing your due diligence, right? Like, what else do you have to do this time of year?

What else are you doing? You're twiddling your thumbs. Like, to me, you might as well bring them in. It's not like you're sitting on the phone all day today talking trade. Bring them in, have them in for an hour or two. And at worst case, scenario, when they become free agents in a couple years, you know them. they know you, wherever you are, there's at least that kind of bond where maybe you have a better shot of getting them down the line. So listen, all that stuff would work out at this point.

One, two, and three have been done for a month, Doug. One, two, and three have been done. So what happens at four? Well, so David Grypton is trying like hell to get out of that four spot. As I reported earlier, I mean, he's talking Minnesota's. he's talking Minnesota about 11 and Robert Covington. He wants to move down a little bit because he, like you and I, understands that there's not much disparity from four,

whether it's DeAndre Hunter, Jared Culver, Darius Garland, to 10 or 12, which could be like a Rui Hachamura. So he's trying to get another asset, another starter, maybe a young guy or a guy in his prime that's on a good contract, plus move down and getting that maybe 8 to 12 range, if he can. Who's the big name? You tweeted out earlier that the Wizards have no desire to trade

Brad Beale. So who is the big name who will be traded tonight? I'm not sure there would be one. I mean, last year there was. Two years ago, it was Jimmy Butler. I thought it would be Mike Conley, but he got moved yesterday. That was the one that was like the given, right? We knew Mike Connolly was going to get

moved because they were dropped in John Moran. So, yeah, I don't know. There's not always a big name that gets traded. I did this for ESPN for four straight years, and the Butler one was a big one. But other than that, you know, there was some other decent, you know, mid-level trades. I'm not sure anybody gets dealt tonight. I think there's always a this talk of it's going to be a huge day for trades and this and that. And then the problem with this draft again, and David Griffin's

finding this out right now, is beyond the top three, there's not a lot of teams that are dying to get up to four. I actually think the only. way a team gets up to four and moves with Griff is to take Garland. I think it's a team. Like, if I'm Chicago, I'm worried that Garland goes off the board ahead of me to Phoenix. And I'm trying, like, hell, to figure out a way to get there so I could take Garland if you like Garland more than Kobe White, which I think I do if I'm Chicago. There's other teams. I really like Kobe White, but he's a work in progress as a point guard. I think Garland's a little bit further along.

Who do you think the Lakers get? Obviously not in the draft I'm talking about in free agency. Jimmy Butler. Yeah, Jimmy Butler. I think he's Hollywood. I think he wants to go to the Lakers. I don't know if the Sixers even really want them. Back. I think the Sixers, that's part of the reason they traded for Tobias. They're good with that big three.

So I see Jimmy Butler is probably and that locker room will be entertaining as hell. with LeBron and Jimmy Butler. Anthony Davis is easy. I mean, you and I both know that. Like, Rich Paul is the one who's kind of screwed up the perception of Anthony Davis. Right. But, like, he's low-maintenance.

He'll be great. But if you bring in Jimmy Butler with LeBron, that'll be fun. What does KD do? I don't know. You know, I had Jay Will on my pod yesterday, the good and plenty pod for all those listening. And he didn't know, and he's obviously spent a lot of. of time with KD lately. Now, the one thing he mentioned, and again, he didn't take a prediction here, but he said,

with everything that went down with the injury, did KD lose some faith in the Warriors and how they handled that situation? And if he did, then he's gone. If he feels like he was misled or not protected by Golden States management, doctors, whatnot, then he's gone. but where are you going right now? That's my question. You're really going to New York?

You know, and I heard, you know, or you're going to Brooklyn with Kyrie? I heard New York didn't really want Kyrie unless they got KD. Right. So that's part of the reason why we've got Kyrie strong to Brooklyn right now is because the Knicks's like, we're like, we'll take Kyrie if we get KD, but otherwise we don't really, we'd rather have Kemba.

What about Kauai? I think he stays in Toronto. in a one-in-one deal. I think he stays in Toronto and then maybe goes to the Clippers a year from now. That's kind of what I'm hearing right now. Again, anybody who tells you

they know what Kawhi's doing, his lion, other than his uncle and Kawhi, because he doesn't really talk to anybody about it from everything I've been told. But my gut would be he stays in Toronto in a one-year deal with an option. Do the rockets blow that thing up?

Listen, I'm surprised it got this far, aren't you? Like Hardening Chris Paul, when they made that trade, I bet if you looked at my tweets back then, I crushed it, thinking that there's no way Harden and Chris Paul could coexist. I'm shocked that it lasted this long.

You know, you hear the word fraud associated with Chris Paul quite a bit. Now, again, he works. Like, he's not a fraud in terms of how he works and what he expects of his teammates. but Hardin's a little different dude. Chris Paul's got very little left in the tank at this point, and blowing it up, I mean, what are you going to give away, Chris Paul? Like, to me again, the ideal, I would love to see Chris Paul with the Lakers.

I don't think it's going to happen, and I don't know if it can happen, but just because of the relationship, the friendship with LeBron, Chris Paul, it would be entertaining to watch. But again, Chris Paul is a shell of himself. Yeah, and look, he's not buddy, and he also needs. the basketball and I think some of his points about James Hardin and how James Hardin plays are accurate. But, you know, when you have a reputation as not being a good teammate, when you're Chris Paul and you have that ridiculous contract, which, you know, Houston Field felt compelled to give him last off season. They didn't have to.

They don't think they wanted to. But, you know, remember, they were beefing over the contract and ultimately they relented. And this is the, this is basically they're the opposite of what the Celtics are doing with Al Horford. Yeah, no, absolutely. The self-fix are taken. And that's the one thing, like, Danny Ains doesn't care about perception. I think Darrell Morey cares about perception. And Ains is saying, kill me all you want. I get it, but I'm not going to give in to the public perception and the pressure to sign, resign Al Horpher for four years at 25 or 30 million a year. And then we're in major trouble in two years when he really starts to deteriorate. Awesome stuff. Jeff Goodman. Check him out at Goodman Hoops. I'm sure are you going to be tipping picks? You know what? I'm doing the show on stadium tonight, so I think I'll be busy. I'm kind of hosting it tonight. So I don't know how much tipping I will be doing. And that's kind of a good thing. I'd rather, let's leave that to Shams and Woj. They have fun with it. It's a good one-on-one battle. Mono e-mono. Yeah, Wodge, I think not tipping picks. It'll be Shams Sharani had tipping picks tonight. No, no, I think he's allowed to.

They changed the deal for Woz last year. When I was doing the ESPN show, I was not allowed to tip picks. And now, I believe this year they've, like, given him full clearance to tip picks. We'll see. Thanks, Jeff. You got a map. Jeff Goodman joining us. Let's get to some Herdline News with Ryan Music.

No, no, no, no. Turn on the news. This is the Hurdline News. All right, Doug, you and Jeff Goodman there talking a ton of NBF but I couldn't help but notice you missed out on one of the biggest stories in the NBA right now. Which is? Well, it's the news everyone's been waiting on for months, Doug. Not where Kevin Durant's going to sign.

Not where Kawhi Leonard's going to sign. Who's going to be in Space Jam, too? There was some reports going back a couple of months ago that LeBron James and Company were struggling to land some big stars in the movies. But we now have the reported list. A couple of obvious ones, his new teammate Anthony Davis, his close friend Chris Paul. Some surprising choices as well, though, Clay Thompson and Damian Lillard. Huh. Well, Clay Thompson is a free agent.

I just want to point that out. Although he won't play most of next year. And he does live in Southern California, so maybe they don't have to pay to move him. You know, I don't have to pay to come and get a place out here. That's interesting. It's interesting. Wait, so give me the, I'm trying to think. So last time it was Sean Bradley, right, Mugsy Bokes.

Correct. It was Pat Ewing Charles Barkley There's one other one Who was the other one? Oh Jordan, right? That was their five? Or did they have a

They had another They had five guys Well yeah I mean Jordan was the main character I'm trying to think if there was another one Because they wanted him to play Right Right

Who is the other one? Let's see Charles Barker Pat Mugsy Boggs Larry Johnson Oh LJ Larry Johnson There you go Larry Johnson

Okay So Mugsy Bugs' role will be played by Damien Lillard. Okay, he's not quite Mugsy Bugs. Sean Bradley will be played by who? Anthony Davis? Anthony Davis. Yeah. Okay.

Patrick Ewing will be played by... So those are the only reports. There are some other reports about some WNBA stars making some canios. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we don't really know exactly because there were other people like Larry Bird made a brief appearance in the first one. But he was as a golfer. Right. So we don't know exactly the roles for everyone just yet, but those were some of the picks that were leaked earlier. Well, it's the NBA that you know they will include the WNBA. It will happen. It's like pre-mandated now.

That's how we're proceeding. Always trying to pump it up. The one thing I find interesting is do you think Clay's injury will have any effect on the production schedule? It's supposed to come out in 2021. So I guess they probably have most of the taping done at this point. No, I thought it was this summer they were going to do it. Okay. So now what happens? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Miss out on the movie because you tore, you know, that's like the double whammy. Good news is he'll get a new, you know, get a huge contract with Golden State and not have to play a year. Bad news is maybe they'll use CGI.

Use somebody else's body and put Clay's head on there. Maybe that fake Clay Thompson guy who showed up at their Warriors game, that's a good call. He could be his body double. It'll finally pay off. Finally pay off. All right. We'll wrap up with some NFL news. If you remember yesterday, we discussed Tom Brady's Instagram posts,

him throwing some passes to wide receiver Josh Gordon. Of course, there was speculation about what that meant regarding Josh Gordon's future, whether or not the Patriots were expecting him to come back at some point this next season. But according to Jeff Howe of The Athletic, the NFL had no update on the status of Josh Gordon, who remained suspended indefinitely. So your update was no update? The update was he is not expected. to probably play at all this year.

He's suspended indefinitely. They checked with the NFL since he was practicing if that meant his status had changed. And they said no. So the update is he's still suspended. He can apply for reinstatement, right? Right. But yeah.

I think the idea was people saw that he was practicing with the Patriots and wondered if that meant, oh, he's working towards reinstatement. And the NFL is like, not that we're aware of. He's not coming back anytime soon. I mean, look, maybe he's the greatest past-catching practice dummy of all time.

All right? And that's Rye Music with the news. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Herd Lie News. Kevin Durant may be struggling with his decision. I'll tell you why. Next in The Herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd. Weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending. Opinions are flying. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in.

I'm Timbo. Every episode we're cutting through the noise. Breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live there. them listen to Sports Slice on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast

and for more follow timbo slice life 12 and the ticot podcast network on ticot welcome to my new podcast learn the hard way with me your host and your favorite therapist care games and in recognition of mental health awareness month i'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests i'm talking triptontaine ryan claude Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on Earth. Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines,

as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clivert Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show,

I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff, like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes, hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue of 42. Hey, rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramo sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines.

I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about Balagan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semi-final. finals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tabramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your

podcast. Doug Gottlieven for calling. This is The Hurd on Fox Sports Radio, the IHart Radio app. This from Adrian Wojianowski on Kevin Durant's free agency. I'm told KD is doing a lot of soul searching right now. Stepping back from the injury, processing all this for KD, you can go back to Golden State, five-year, $200 million-dollar-plus deal. that gives them absolute assurance coming up to Seculey's injury, but Brooklyn and the Knicks are very much in the fight. And I thought about this, right? Like, I know we've all came to the conclusion

that Kevin Rant was gone and that he was leaving, he was going to New York, likely with the Knicks more so than with the Nets, right? Like, if you're going to make that kind of move, going to the Nets feels like going to the Clippers. They may be well-run organizations. They may have good teams, but the branding of, like, the Clippers and the Nets, is very, very similar.

And the Nets have actually had a lot more success. They've been to NBA finals before. Been to playoffs more regularly, deeper in the playoffs. Clippers never been past the second round. And even though the Clippers have a good culture, they have a championship coach, you know, they have one of the all-time great executives as an advisor. They got an owner that's willing to do whatever it takes to win

and seems to really enjoy spending his money on the Clippers. Still the Clippers, the other teams of the Lakers. Like Kevin Durand, Kevin Durant's not an idiot to branding. So you might ask yourself, well, why would he think twice? Why hasn't he if he's already mentally unpacked there? Maybe this is due diligence. Or maybe it's just a fear of the unknown,

which is a very reasonable fear to have. You can, in fact, take out the money. Yes, it's a five years, $200-something million dollar Supermax deal is more money than his kids and grandkids could possibly spend if you manage it correctly. Combine that with the other investments in Silicon Valley, living in the valley, living in San Francisco, close to the valley, there's no reason to believe that he couldn't become a billionaire by the end of his contract. No reason.

So there is the money, and I do think money does matter. There's security in the money. and then if you go to the Knicks and you sit for a year, you're assuming that this culture that they're trying to establish will be set in place and then by the time you come back, well, now you'll be ready to compete for a championship. But the likelihood is minimal at best. You have a coach and David Fieldsdale that everybody likes,

but he's never won anything in the NBA. You have no players in the roster have currently won anything. and maybe you get Kyrie to go with you. Okay. Maybe that helps. Survey taken back in 2015, about 54% of people said that they live close to proximity where they grew up. About 35% of that survey respondent said they moved away from home for a significant amount of time before ultimately moving back to where they grew up.

Why? Because it makes them feel comfortable. You're comfortable in the things that you know. Now, to some of you, you might say, well, he grew up. up in Baltimore. Why doesn't he go play for the Wizards? Well, one, they don't even have a GM. Two, he actually seems to have grown up, truly grown up, in San Francisco. Like, that's where he's become a man. There was a big, bold decision. And even though there was the unknown of, how would it work? Me, playing with staff, playing with Clay, you knew they were going to win. No one

thought that the Warriors were not going to win. That's actually what ticked everybody off is, you already knew they're going to win, then you add arguably the best player, best score, they're only going to win some more. The question wasn't what, if they were going to win, it's how many titles and by how many points, that's really what it became. Going to the Knicks that haven't won a title since 73, that's unknown. Going to Brooklyn, he has no idea what that's like. That's unknown.

Why do people always get back with their ex? Why? because they know even you know even if it's a guy like he's got bad breath you know he's messy he can say things that are not kind

but even the bad things you know fear can be crippling and and having left places before the unknown man that's like that's that feeling on a roller coaster when you finally start to descend end. I coming up next. Rich Paul had the right intentions, but there are unintended consequences.

That's next. One more herd? The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd. Wherever you may be, however you may be listening to the show. Thank you. so much for making this part of your day. I'm Doug Gottlieb, filling in for the vacationing Colin Cowherd. NBA draft day is today. You know who Collins' second and third favorite NBA prospects are, right? I mean, Zion's everybody's. Second and third, though, I guarantee. Brandon Clark, Rui Hachamura. He's a big Zag guy. It's a big Zag guy. Big few guy. Brandon Clark's an interesting one. Canadian.

kid. 6-8 with a 6-8 wingspan. That's not good. But freak freak athlete. On the other hand, he's like 209 pounds and he's probably a power forward or center in the NBA. So going to be interesting because he jumped higher than anybody at the combine. But how does that actually play out when your reach is four, five, six inches lower or less than most guys at your position in the NBA? I have the most, I have the most amazing stat in sports. I'm going to give you later this hour. The most amazing. I gave Colin one on Monday.

Do you guys remember that Steph Curry makes, swishes 84% of his free throws? Like that's insane. There's, I can't think of a more insane stat to prove just how incredible he is. But, um, I'll give you an insane stat a little bit later on this hour. Kevin O'Connor from the ringer will join us. He is a native Bostonian.

He actually cut his teeth. Not physically. It's not a literal thing. It's more of a figurative thing. Cut his teeth doing a Celtics blog. We'll ask Kim about his take on Kyrie and on the sudden and by some people's estimation abrupt departure of Al Horford. And how much does he blame Danny Age?

but let's start with the other coast, the L.A. Lakers. Now, they parted ways with the number four pick as part of the trade for Anthony Davis. They are in the market for second round picks because as we informed you yesterday and probably you've read second round picks don't cost against the cap. So just because it doesn't look like the Lakers are players tonight doesn't mean they won't have some sort of interest in what takes place tonight and may not. become players tonight and getting some second round picks. But we're still reacting to Anthony Davis becoming a Laker.

And we started the week trying to wonder, did they pay too much? And my thought was, yeah, especially because didn't they have leverage in this thing? Right? Didn't they? Like, it wasn't a bidding war? The Celtics, Celtics weren't, you know, weren't ponying up Jason Tatum. If it was, Jason Tatum was in Jason Tatum in combination. with anybody else.

The Knicks didn't have anything to trade. The Nets, the Celtics. Tell me who else had something, and Anthony Davis's representation, Rich Paul had made it clear. Wanted to be a Laker, noted. So what does he end up landing with? Now, there have been a lot of people

that have come out and said, like, the Lakers screwed this thing up because of the timing, which there's some of that. The reality to it is this. The reality to it, is that if you're going to trade those guys, if you're going to trade that fourth pick,

you can't really wait till the 31st. Should that have been addressed in negotiations and used as part of your leverage? Yes. Yes. The Lakers do have a capologist. They did review it with their capologist before ultimately concluding the deal because the deal went down on Saturday,

but on Friday the capologist, had already given the thumbs up to the deal. And they were waiting for all the medicals to come back. So it wasn't that they didn't go through the correct process, but did they use this as leverage in the deal? You guys know what the law of unintended consequences is? I'm fascinated with the law of unintended consequences. See, the law of unintended consequences is,

and I love, like, this is the great thing about, it's kind of the cool thing about being a parent. Believe it or not? Is there are some things that you learn that stick out in your mind that you get to share with your kids? Also, you get to relearn things that you kind of forgotten. I know? My daughter for studying for her final was like, hey, dad, I just learned what Manazuma's revenge was. I was like, whoa!

Did you have something you should have eaten? She's like, no, I'm actually studying that part of Aztec history, Aztec lore. I was like, oh, okay. Law of unintended consequences are outcomes that are not ones foresees. or intended by a purposeful action, right? We're taught this in science very early on. Every action is met with an equal and opposite reaction. Cause and effect.

Do you guys remember that one? Okay, so cause and effect. And oftentimes we become kind of linear thinkers and we're like, cause an effect, cause and effect. And the unintended consequences during the season of the Lakers pursuing Anthony Davis was it killed the chemistry within the team, right? Unintended consequence.

Now, you know some of these unintended consequences, but oftentimes you do not. You don't see it. It's called a perverse result, the perverse effect, contrary to what originally intended or a backfire, right? It backfires for you.

And that seems to be what's happened with the Lakers and with Rich Paul. His intended consequence was to get LeBron James, a fellow superstar, one who's much younger, and one who can do some of the things that LeBron can no longer do. And, oh, yeah, by the way, bring them to the second biggest market in the country, one of the great historic franchises in the country, and give both the opportunity to grow together on the court and grow off the court, right? That's the intended consequence of forcing an Anthony Davis trade to the L.A. Lakers.

The unintended consequence is because you were so visible, because you came out several times, even in the week leading up to the actual trade saying, hey, you can trade for him, but there's no way that he's resigning. You thought, in your mind, you were like, man, the intended consequence is so that it eliminates the competition of Boston, It eliminates the competition of places he doesn't want to go. We said the Knicks just to throw you a bone. We knew the Knicks didn't have the assets to trade. But we had to say somebody else and make it seem like it was a big market. And so that's what we did.

The intended consequence was to make sure absolutely sure that the Lakers got Anthony Davis. But the perverse result was that because there was such pressure on Rob Polinkin. And look, Rob Polinka is not only inexperienced, there's no assistant GM on the Lakers. They're the only NBA team that doesn't have an assistant GM. So you're talking about a dude who's never pulled off this type of blockbuster trade before with David Griffin, who's been doing it for 25 years, right? Like, it's an experience mismatch.

One rival GM said, let's just wait to see who lost the negotiation. what we can say with certainty is all the pressure surrounding Polinka. Of course, you had Magic Johnson, pointing fingers, calling him a backstabber. 1,000% creates pressure on him to deliver on something like this. And when you're under that sort of pressure to deliver something like this, you're at a disadvantageous negotiating position. One other team executives said, never let your GM be in a spot where he needs to make a trade to save his job.

not once did LeBron come out and say hey Rob choose to make the trade doesn't choose to make the trade I got his back not once did Rich Paul say the same thing they should have had leverage right let me can I share with you do you have that stat the what's the step the Mike Trout stat

listen to the stat Mike Trott had seven RBI last night and he's ridiculous but that's not the great stat on Mike Trout I mean, this is just an obscene number. Listen to this. With a grand slam and an RBI single with bases loaded last night, Mike Trout is hitting 420.

420 in 69, 69, sorry. 420 and 69 at bats in his career with the bases loaded. Wait, wait, wait, let me repeat this. 69 at bats. He's been up 69 times. He's 29 for 60s. with six home runs and 101 RBI. 101 RBI for a season.

You know, 400 at bats, that's a good year. In 69 at bats with the bases loaded, he has 101 RBI. In other words, in advantageous situations where you have to pitch to him, I mean, it's college baseball, it's the only time I've ever seen that they walk the kid from Oregon State with bases loaded. Right? With that is the exception. you have to pitch to him. And he's the best hitter in baseball anyway,

and he proves to be the best hitter under some sort of pressure because there's bases loaded, right? Ducks on the pond. That's what the Lakers had. The Lakers had ducks on the pond. They had assets, they had draft picks, they had cap space,

and they had a player who said, hey, that's where I want to be. And an agent who said, hey, that's where he wants to be. But instead, of just letting it organically take place. Rich Paul forced the issue. Force the issue.

Because the intended consequence was to make it absolutely clear, like in a few good men, crystal, crystal clear that Anthony Davis was to be in L.A. But even though everybody already knew this, you didn't have to come out to say it. You didn't have to pressure your GM. And there certainly didn't have to be the pressure of the GM because you All LeBron had to do is put his arm around him and go like, hey, man, you make a trade, you don't make a trade, I'm rolling with these guys. We're good. This is our team. Let's go. But instead, the unintended consequence was not only did they give up too much and was their pressure on GM and did they lose leverage in a trade in which they had all the leverage in the world.

They screwed up their cap situation. And now they got to figure out a way to fix it before July 1st, before. this deal gets consummated. Maybe throwing something else in, maybe trading away somebody else that they actually want to keep to create more cap space so they can get more guys. The law of unintended consequences can backfire.

And the result can be the perverse result, which is the backfire. And it feels like between Rich Paul, the pressure of the media, the pressure of players, the inexperience of Rob Polinka, the lack of a supporting cast

with no assistant general manager? Look, end of the day, they got a great player. They got LeBron, they got Anthony Davis, you know, Kyle Corver, J.R. Smith, get bought out. They'll figure it out. They'll be fine. When they win a championship? No idea. But it wasn't as good or as smooth or as clean a deal. And in many ways, you listen to or read

some of the commentary about it and people are still pointing out that the Lakers are poorly run, even though they pulled off the blockbuster deal to get one of the best players in the NBA. And those are unintended consequences. All right, coming up next, Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer joins the show. Does he

think the Lakers are serious contenders or are they just way too top heavy? Plus, what's going on with the Celtics? And will there be a blockbuster trade tonight? Find out next. In The Hurt. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio,

FS1, and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athlete themselves. Their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast. network on TikTok. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me,

your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person

while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing,

growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, learn the hard way. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search learn the hard way and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff,

like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue with 42. A rep, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and IHart Podcasts presents soccer moms. So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet.

Hey. And we have been joined at the hips since high school. Absolutely. Now a redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips, wider. This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the best. of my Honda Odyssey with all the snacks and drinks.

Sidebar. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? They had a bogo. Well, then you got it. Do you want a white collar something here? Just hit it. What are y'all doing? Microphones?

Are you making a rap album? Oh, I would. Come on. Can you pull? I would buy it. Cuts through the defense like a hot knife through sponge cake. That sounds delicious. Oh, you're lucky.

I'm not a drug addict. You are. You are. I'm not an alcoholic. You are. You are. You are. I'm not a killer.

I love this team and I'm really trying to be a figure in their lives that they can rely on. Oh. Listen to soccer moms on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Doug Gottlieven for Colin. This is the hurt on Fox Sports Radio and Fox Sports One. Yeah, it is, I only threw the Trout thing in there. Saw the Dodgers beat the Giants again last night. whooped up on the Giants again last night.

They've taken two out of three so far from their rival from the north. Of course. And then I think they got the fourth game tonight out of Chavez Ravine. I only bring it up because has there ever been a more impactful, more incredible career in modern

day sports that is less discussed than Mike Trout? Right? I mean, really kind of remarkable. Counter remarkable. Kevin O'Connor covers the NBA for the ringer. By the way, I'd encourage you to go to dunk oncancer.com.

Check out his fundraising efforts after a really unbelievable heartfelt story. He wrote about his father and his dad's fight with cancer. Kevin, of course, is it's not just basketball. It's anybody with a heart, but an incredible story you should read. If you go to the ringer or if you follow him on Twitter, Kevin joins us here in the herd. Kevin, let's start with, I mean, part of the story that I didn't know when I read your initial story we had you on previously was that you got your start as a Celtics fan who became a Celtics blogger, right? So I got to ask you in recent days, there are people that are not happy about what's going on in Boston with we expect the departure of Kyrie Irving. But now you got Al Horford, not only opting out, but apparently.

looking for more money elsewhere. What do you think of what's going on in Boston? It's all sort of blown up for the Celtics, hasn't it? I think one year ago around this time, we're heading into the off season talking about the Celtics collectively, all of us, you know, NBA media and fans of having one of the brightest futures in basketball, a team that could possibly, you know,

make a run at the finals and yelling for the Warriors, make a run at beating the Warriors. But this shows like the thin margin for ever for teams, and I think in regards to Kyrie Irving, specifically the risks in giving up future assets for a star player when there's no confidence of them signing long term there. It's worked out for Oklahoma City. It may work out for Toronto, but for Boston they gave up quite a bit.

But it's a risk that you make every time. I think some of the bashing of Danny Ames for some of the past decisions that he's made or the unwillingness to give up assets for trades are fine. But I do think they've made a lot of good decisions along the way. just has not worked out for them. But heading into the offseason, it's going to be fascinating to see what this team does in the draft, too. It takes 14, 20, and 22.

They still have an appealing future. But losing two-star players, Horford and Irving, suddenly they look like a team is destined to be just sort of in the middle for quite some time now. Yeah. On the other hand, like, we don't know if Gordon Hayward can get it back, right? How long it took Paul George to get it back? and I'm not saying that Gordon Hayward will be Paul George,

but he was an All-Star. He clearly wasn't himself this year, and Paul George was an All-Star, and he wasn't really himself his first year back either. And I wonder if next year we'll see more of Gordon Hayward and how they can continue to fix things, because they have solved the equation times before. And like I'd point this out about Horford.

Like, I kind of get it. You know, if somebody wants to offer him four years, at over $100 million, like, at 36 and 37, I'm sorry, he's not worth $30 million a year. Yeah, you know, that's the intriguing thing here with Boston. It's like with Kyrie, when the deal was made, I remember talking to an executive at the time, I said, wow, this is a big deal for Boston, and this executive's sending me, I'm not for sure. I don't buy Kyrie Irving as a leader for a franchise.

And in the past two years, there were ups for Kyrie, and there was a lot of downs. And those downs really manifested this season with the issue. he had with the coaching staff, with the younger players from that team. And moving forward, like we're currently saying, the doubt some teams are expressing and signing him without another star coming. So with Kyrie, specifically,

it's like, it's not like, it's necessarily the best idea in the world to give him the full, the max contract moving forward, either considering the issues in the locker room, considering the issues that he's had in the past with his health, the knee issues that he's had. So it's like with Horford-Dage, with Irving's, you know, locker room and health issues, for Boston, like, there was risk also in keeping these guys.

So for them, like, I wonder, okay, if these guys both leave, what's the alternative now? You can create around $23 million on cap space or more if you renounce the right to some of your other free agent. So what's the plan now? Is it spending that money investing it now? Or is it pumping cap space and trying to open up max space in 2021? a year that's loaded in the free agents. It's always about what the next plan is, regardless of the stuff that's out of your control. So I think with Boston, they're still in a position with immense flexibility with their assets, draft picks, and young players on their roster.

So they continue to be one of the more interesting teams of the NBA, especially tonight with the three first round draft picks that they have. What do you think about what the Lakers have done? The Anthony Davis trade, in my opinion, like despite all the shenanigans, the people have been talking about the past couple days, with the salary cap issues and all that. I still think the trade itself was a no-brainer. You are one of the few teams, maybe the only team that can say it has two top ten players in the league that immediately vaults you from a non-playoff team this past season

to a potential finals contender. And not only that, it's like I think a lot of people who have talked about the importance of adding depth. And that goes about saying, like you need to build around LeBron James and Anthony Davis. However, the investment in Anthony Davis is not just for the next three years, For the Lakers, they hope the next 10 years. It's for when LeBron is either old or gone.

And for Anthony Davis, he's always going to be somebody who is going to be alert to other free agents in the future. So for the Lakers, this is a long-term investment, just as much as it is a short-term investment. But now we'll come to challenge that there's really the true hallmark for the good general managers versus the bad ones, that's adding the right supporting cast around these guys. It'll be easy.

Okay. So who do you think it is? Do you believe they'll be able to get a top-level free agent? From what I've heard, like, it's not going to happen for them with a Kauai Leonard type. I still think they would have a chance at Kempa. Maybe if I've heard Tyree is going to Brooklyn, however, maybe if they get cold feet, Kyrie decides to opt the team up again with LeBron. I'm doubtful about that.

I think they're going to be in it, and that's their first choice. But it's not surprised me at all if they end up just trying to give out a handful of one-year deals or one-on-ones to some of the lower-end three agents trying to build this roster. You know what? Like maybe, maybe like that could be for the best rather than adding that third star, just building a stronger, deeper roster. We just saw with Toronto the importance and having, like, quality depth players.

Like, they have one superstar in Kauai Leonard, and Grant's in Golden State was hurt, and that's one of the reasons why they lost. But having guys like Siakum and Dan Bleet and Danny Green, important to the championship formula. And so for the Lakers, maybe it actually would be a bit better signing four or five guys to like that, you know, $6 million

per range rather than one guy at 32 and then just getting a bunch of league men in them. Kevin O'Connor joining us. Okay, and then you have the Houston Rockets who... Oh, boy. Right? I mean, who could have seen this coming?

Everybody could have seen it coming. On the other hand, there is this kind of like, all right, well, the Warriors are kind of a mess right now. The Lakers, even though they have two great, they have literally like four guys under contract or three guys under, I think I have four players under contract. Like we weren't that far away. Like let's maybe run this one back. But when you make everybody available for trade, when you get rid of the entire assistant coaching staff, when you, when you threaten to not give a contract extension to a coach who's in a lame duck status, like,

it feels like this is a bit of a dumpster fire. What do you think happens in Houston? You know, I think with this thing, like, first of all, it's a shame. Like, this happened. They missed the 27, three-pointers in a row last year in the playoffs, would have went to the finals and probably would have beaten Cleveland. And this year, they had an opportunity to be Gold State again and didn't. And now it's like this whole thing could blow up.

And with Hardin and Chris Paul, it's kind of odd to me that, that Mike and Tony is sort of e-dated blame a bit here. And I really, you know, love the system overall. I think it's a no-brainer to put the ball into James Harden's hands. However, I do think in a playoff setting, running pickerel over and over, isolation over and over becomes a bit predictable, a bit rigid. And I would have liked to have seen him integrate a bit more motion, blending two different styles within the system.

Because the fact is that Harder and Chris Paul rarely ever assisted each other over there two seasons together. And one of the reasons why is just the nature of the offense of pick and roll in isolation. If maybe they're integrating a bit more ball movement, it would have made there's just a bit more harder to predict, harder to defend for defenses, but also would have maybe created better flow between James Hardin and Chris Paul, because on paper, those guys should be able to coexist. Chris Paul is a knockdown spot-up shooter.

James Hardin is a knock-down spot-up shooter. Hardin is a good cutter. He showed that in college. He showed that in Oklahoma City, and he showed even in its first couple years of Houston. These guys should be able to work together. But the fact it didn't work, I think, is sort of – it relates somewhat to the system and Dan Tony's maybe unwillingness or maybe it's because of hardened, but I would largely pen it on Dan Tony there for not integrating a bit more motion within the system

to balance out the heavy pick and roll and heavy isolation, which is important. It does work, but I think they needed a bit more variance within their offense. I mean, I agree with much of what you said, but the big part was you said on paper. And it's not, you know, that's on paper is one thing. The reality is they both need the ball in their hands. Can they shoot spot up shots? Yes, but they're just, they're not comfortable playing that way. And Chris Paul, like the rest of America, gets, is tired of watching James Hardin over-dribble

the basketball, even if he is effective once he does something. And James Harden, much like most people in the NBA, doesn't seem to love how Chris Paul likes to lead a team and thinks he's a bad teammate. So that's definitely part. Right. And again, on paper, they shouldn't miss 27 threes in row. That shouldn't happen. But that's the reality of sport as opposed to as opposed to the synthetic reality of how it appears kind of on paper.

All right. Tonight is an interesting night. I, look, I think Zion has a chance to be a transcendent pro. Different than LeBron, different than some others. What's your level of excitement? expectations for Zion Williamson as opposed to other NBA drafts? I think with Zion, like there's no doubt that he's going to be a good NBA player for a long time. When you consider the fact that he is somebody with his potential defensive versatility,

that can be a foundation of his game, defending a cross-position, ability to protect a rim with his athleticism, to handle larger players of 280 pounds and the quickness and mobility he has on the perimeter. If he develops its fundamentals and his awareness over time, he could be an all-defensive player. That's the foundation for his game on defense. And on offense, just a rim-running lob guy that can also handle the ball and do the short-roll thing like Jemond Green, who can throw down lobs like Blake Griffin. That's going to be the foundation of his game.

But what's going to really, like you mentioned, he could be a transcendent player, what he's going to have to do to reach that level is continue improving his handle. He needs to improve creating off the dribble, dribbling into his shot. he's going to need to have to improve his spot-up jumper from the perimeter because as of now, he's more like a 6-7, 6-8, 280-pound center, which is great. Like, he can be a franchise player like that, but there's still room for improvement for him to reach that transcendent face of the league type of potential. Fact is, though, we're talking about him having that potential, and it's there.

It's just there is a ways to go for him to actually get there. He's not destined. He's not the chosen one like LeBron James. There's a lot of room for him to grow. No question about it. No question about it. Do you believe there'll be a blockbuster trade tonight? I don't think we'll have a blockbuster trade, but I think we will have quite a bit of movement,

especially in the mid-first, late-first range. And like that's the funny thing about this year's draft. Every year, mock drafts get thrown out the window. The second one surprising pick is made. But this year in particular, in our Ringer NBA draft guide, I find it particularly hard to fight them through intel from sources and all that to figure out where guys are going to go. Because guess what? And the executives don't even know.

Because we don't know which teams are going to be picking where with the amount of movement that could happen. No, and sometimes picks are made. They're actually made for somebody else, not made for the team that's actually selecting them. Give me a star player that you are a star player that you believe will be traded. In general. Tonight or in the coming week as we lead up to free agency. It would not surprise me if Kevin Love gets moved at some point. There's been a little bit of chatter overhauling him.

I'm not sure if he qualifies as a star anymore, but he's a fading star at least. I think Kevin Love is the first guy who comes to mind, especially in its wide open NBA. He can still offer a lot to a team as a rebounder, passer, and as a floor spacer. I think Kevin Love is somebody to keep an eye on. Where does Kevin Durant end up? Boy, it's interesting. trusting I would tell over the past couple of weeks, the possibility from staying in gold state has certainly increased. I would still bet on the next door, but I've lost a lot

of confidence in that. Yeah. Yeah. And then what would the Warriors look like if he stays? How do they maintain staff's health for a year when he has to try and carry the team? What do they do to fix the rest of that roster? Last thing, the NBA finals MVP. Everyone has thought he's going to the Clippers. Now there's kind of a new push that he may stay and sign a one plus one. Where do you think Kauai Leonard plays next year? I think he should sign the one plus one in Toronto, make another championship push one more year.

The clippers aren't going to go anywhere. They'll punt cap space if they need to wait one more year for Kauai. But for him, it's really going to have to be a decision between family. If it's about L.A. or if it's about, you know, being a face of Canadian basketball. I would bet on the one-on-one with Toronto. But he's another guy where he's another someone else's, somebody else is impossible to predict.

Please go to dunk oncancer.com. That's dunk oncancer.com. Follow him on Twitter at Kevin O'Connor. Of course, you can download his work on the ringer. Kevin, great stuff. Enjoy the draft tonight. We'll catch up real soon. Thank you, Doug.

Appreciate it. Have a great day. Let's get to Ryan Music with Heard Line News, Ryan. Turn on the News. This is the Heard Line News. All right, Doug, let's do a bit of NFL here. Brown's quarterback Baker Mayfield is a staple here on the show with Colin. thought I'd work this in. Did you know he has an ongoing beef with Texas quarterback Sam

Ellenger? I did not. Yes, this is going about a few years, so let me give you the back story. Actually, let's start here. He was talking to Sports Talk 1400 in Norman, Oklahoma, and he had this to say about Texas returning to powerhouse status. All the preseason publications I read, hearing people talk, they say Texas is finally back. They're finally back. They're going to contend for a national championship this year. They won. I know. games after that. I'm sick of that crap. But Sam Ellinger. That'll stir the pot. He doesn't like me and I hope he knows I don't like him either. So obviously Texas and Oklahoma players don't get along. We know all about that rivalry.

But apparently this goes back to when Ellinger took a shot at Mayfield's former offensive lineman Orlando Brown. He was like a physical freak but had a really bad combine. Yes, terrible combine. Right. So he tweeted out taking a shot at Orlando Brown. So I guess that's where this whole thing started where Baker Mayfield doesn't like Ellinger. But this sort of goes to show you maybe why. teammates always love Mayfield, right? Because if you're one of his guys, just will do anything to defend you.

Right. Like, if you're with me, I hate us because they hate us because they ain't us. Right. That's the, that's the old take. What did Ellinger say about Orlando Brown? That's what I want to know. Okay, so he. Orlando Brown looked terrible at the combine.

So he quote retweeted a different teammates tweet. The teammate said, hey, I've been working out with this guy who's like, their strength trainer. He's like, hey, I started squat this amount of weight. Now since I worked with this guy, I can squat even more. So Ellinger quote retweeted that and he's like, yeah, you need to work out with this guy so that that way you can bench more than 14 times at the NFL Combine. Right. Because Orlando Browns is 14 times. Yeah, this mammoth offensive line. 6-8-345, son of the late Orlando Brown. Right. And all he did threw up his 14 reps to 225. Exactly.

Yeah, meathead weightlifting trash talk. I'm here for. Oh, yeah. By the way, like, look, Baker also, one, defending his guys, two, it's Texas. He's right. Texas did say they were back when they beat. Texas has been back about more or less four times. Texas being back is, they're less back than Tiger Woods has been back.

But it feels like before Tiger, until Tiger won the Masters was kind of the same thing, right? They're back. They're back. They're back. They're not back. All right, let's get back into some NBA, Doug. NBA insider Brian Winhorse had a couple of interesting... Winnie.

Yes, had a couple of interesting things to say about the two biggest players in free agency, Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard. So let's start with Durant. He said earlier today, quote, one thing that's being discussed between Durant and the Warriors is a delayed sign and trade. All right. Now, why does this matter? What does this all mean?

So given the current rules, we know the Warriors are the only team that can offer Durant more money and more years than any other team. So I guess what's being discussed here is that he would sign that supermax contract that only Golden State could give him. Then as he's rehabbing, the Warriors will be sort of behind the scenes looking at potential trade partners in order to get some value back in return for Durant while he's still trying to come back from his Achilles injury. Fascinating.

I love it. That's some backdoor dealing right there. I love it. I love it. Now, like the words he used was one thing being discussed, so it's not as if, like, hey, this is going down. But it's at least something I haven't heard anywhere else. Well, okay, remember, they change some of the sign and trade rules because guys used to have their Larry Bird rights. So they used to be able to get the big contract. And then the new CBA, it's much harder to get, do the sign and trade and keep the – so there's some complicated rules that have been adjusted within the CBA in terms of sign and trades.

And there is the great disparity between the Supermax and the max you can sign if you leave your team. And, oh, yeah, by the way, it would still cost them millions of dollars until he was traded, which is kind of make good for, hey, we threw you out there and you might have had a partially torn to kill his pendant. Right? This might be the best plan of them all. He still gets to kind of pick his destination and see what he likes and they get to get something back in return. The problem with that is, remember when you try. trade in the NBA, you have to trade dollar for dollars.

So if a guy's making $40 million, you got to trade for $40 million back in return, and sometimes teams just don't have that, or they don't have the right guys in order to do that. So it could be interesting. We'll keep an eye on that, of course. And then the other note that Brian Windhorst had earlier today was

about Kauai Leonard. He said that the clippers are, quote, hyperventilating over their status with the two-times finals MVP. They were confident about their chances to land Leonard and free agency, but now the possibility that he could stay in Toronto, which you discussed with Kevin O'Connor. Also, increasingly, the idea that he will meet and give consideration to the Knicks.

The whole thing is fascinating. Like, again, this is why this, this is why it's hard. The free agent thing is hard. You're asking a guy to, you're like, oh, I mean, like, look, the Lakers, they were sure they were going to have Paul George. Sure. No more sure thing. Paul George's dad went up to one of the Lakers coaches after the Thunder just eviscerated the Lakers. There was a game last year where the Lakers were a viscerer, two years ago, where they were eviscerated by the Thunder.

And Paul George's dad went up to a guy he knew on the Laker staff. He's like, don't worry, he's still coming. He didn't even give him a meeting. Didn't even get him a meeting. So, and look, we also, we live in a world where athletes from the time they're in high school and AAU teams, switch teams all the time. Or college, they commit, they decommit, they commit, they decommit, they sign a letter of intent, and then they're like, I want to get out of my letter. So nothing is final until you sign in the line that is dotted. And that's Ryan Music with the news.

Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Line News. You know, the Patriots have philosophy, others try and copy, which is it's better to get out of business with somebody too soon rather than too late. Guess where else that's happening? I'll explain next. in the herd. Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where sports slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the

source, the athlete themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaders to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered. Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slic Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast. Learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes a ball. wins and losses.

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real

conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, iHeartRadio app. Search, learn the hard way, and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th.

And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, Hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue with 42.

A rep, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Where's she at? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming.

Ramos sending on to Ernie Stewart the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boke. On our podcast, Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic. I'm not worried about balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney.

My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here.

Experience it all with us. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. You know, there is something that the Patriots are famous for. Ryan Music, what do you think the Patriots are most famous for? Other than winning, I would say it would be the fact that they tend to trade players much earlier than other teams would have normally traded their players. You're kind of cheating.

It feels like you have the answers to the problem, the answers to the question. You're like, you know those books where you go look back? in the back of the book for the answers. You're like, oh! The teacher tells you do the work on your own. Right. And then, you know, check your answers later. And you're like, oh, yeah, sure.

I'll do that. Right, because the Patriots are known for a bunch of things, right? People would say, spying and filming practices potentially, right? Inflating, deflating footballs. Some would bring up Aaron Hernandez. You know, some would, there's lots of different places. but the thing that they're most known for, and they're not the only one in sports, it's a widely held philosophy in the NFL, but the Patriots have been arguably the best at it.

How many guys have they allowed to walk as free agents or have traded away that the next year they retire? Or the next deal that they sign is a bad one. And I bring that up because there's been so much talk of, well, Danny Aange has never drafted an All-Star. is true. That's absolutely true. It should be pointed out that I would say the Jason Tatum draft choice was a good one as well as trading out of the first pick to get the third pick for a better player than was at one or at two, right? But Jason Tatum to this point has not been an all-star. I thought that Jalen Brown pick at the time, I thought that was reaching. And Jalen Brown's become a good player, but he's not yet an all-star. Fair. We could go back and say, hey, look where

they were drafting in the NBA. Or even this year, you got three picks. If they stay with those three picks, you're not drafting an All-Star in this draft. It'd be very, very unlikely. You can get value, but that doesn't mean getting an All-Star. But the Al-Horford thing while you say, well, Al-Horford feels like a Brad Stevens guy. He feels like a Celtic. He feels like a culture guy. Remember, when they signed Al-Horford, people were like,

it feels like a lot of money for Al-Horford. It feels like a lot of money for Al-Horford. It's Al-Horford. It's kind of mechanical. He's like a 21st century Robert Parrish, right, where he's kind of mechanical, kind of still the only difference is now he shoots threes as opposed to Chief who only played inside the low post. But it feels like the same percentage of people that would be critical of the Celtics allowing Al Horford to walk. What do you mean Al Horford's walking? Wait, do you hear how much he's going to sign for?

several outlets are reporting that he believes or his representation has allowed him to believe that there's a four-year, $100-plus million deal out there for Al Horford. So while you don't like it now, will you like it more if in two years he'll be 36 years old? Let's say he's making $30 million. Right? And $30 million at 37 years old. it's always better too soon than too late. It's even that way in relationships, right?

If a relationship is, in fact, going bad, I ask this about guys all the time. I ask this if you, my producer, Ryan Music, I'm Doug Gottlieb in for Colin. This is the hurt. Before you were engaged, I asked you, like, do you know? And you said yes, and of course shortly later after you've gotten. But if you ask a guy's been dating a girl for a year and you're like,

is she the one? I don't know. Yes, you do. You absolutely do. You know she's not, but you don't want to have to go start all over again, right? Like that's just, oh, so you're going to drag it out. Whereas the truth is, if you have one goal in mind and the goal is, not that goal, the goal is to ultimately end up with somebody forever, then it's better that you cut that off too soon rather than too late

because it always ends poorly when you drag it on too long. Then it becomes really, really painful. Really painful. I could be critical of things that are done in sports. I cannot be critical of a bad back end of a contract. We've seen them so many times end up so poorly. The making of a superstar begins tonight. Why Zion is different.

Next in The herd. One more herd. The herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. What up? Welcome in. This is the herd, wherever you may be, and however you may be making as part of your day.

Isn't that what Colin always says? Live from Los Angeles in the IHeart Radio app on Fox Sports Radio. I am Doug Gottlie. This is NBA Draft Day. NBA Draft Day. And when I started in this business, I actually did my first... ever national show in 2001. I was a, you know, I grew up in Southern California. I would be a, I would, it was a collar on the shows, Rome's show, for example, I was a collar on his show. And then I was

on his show as a guest when I was in college, as well as a show called Todd Wright all night. and I got a chance to fill in for Todd the first full weekend of sports after 9-11 up in Bristol. That was actually, by the way, when Tom Brady was inserted in the game because Drew Bledsoe got knocked out. It was against the Jets.

And I believe in the freezing takes exposed, I said, well, there goes the Patriots. Super Bowl hopes because Drew Breeze is out for the year. I mean, Drew Bledsoe is out for the year. That was my first national radio show ever. I filled in for a couple nights. So I don't live my life full of regrets, but I do try and learn from my past,

the successes, and the failures. And I think of the only things that I didn't accomplish. Like, did I truthfully, I, yeah, do I truthfully believe I could have played in the NBA sure, but that wasn't, what you really want, that first step is you want to be drafted. You want to have your name called. Then you want to sign the contract. Then you want to put on the jersey, not the practice jersey.

You want to get the NBA socks. By the way, you can download my podcast. It's called All Ball. It's on the herd podcast network. Jonathan Gavoni, who has Draftexpress.com, and you'll see him on the coverage leading up to and during the draft. Jonathan Gavoni will be, is on the pod, which dropped earlier today. Anything you want to know about almost any player in the draft,

we covered all the important aspects of it, including the guy I want to get to in a second. So tonight's a weird night, right? Tonight's a night where there are over 500,000 high school basketball players. Write this number down, 500,000. Okay, there are roughly 3,000. 350 Division 1

men's basketball programs. That's right at 350. Multiply 350 times 13. There are 13 scholarships. Now, not every school provides a scholarship. The Ivy League now actually do provide a scholarship. I believe if your family makes combined less than $70,000 a year.

But let's say roughly, roughly, there are 4,500, 4,500 Division 1 men's basketball players on scholarship, right? 4,500. So just to make it to college basketball, you represent less than 1% of the high school basketball players. That's pretty, to get a scholarship. It's pretty amazing. That's a success story. Now, out of 4,500 scholarship athletes,

there will be on the lower end in the 40s and the upper end, the mid, let's say, let's be nice and say there are 50. Right? 50 draft picks from the states. Take away five Europeans for each round. And you look at the raw data there.

That is not a strong percentage. So even if you're drafted, if you're drafted, you represent 1% of the 1% of basketball players growing up. It's kind of amazing. I mean, 50 out of 500,000 don't even get me started on what that percentage is. It's crazy. And of those 50 American-born draft picks, you know, the second rounders, most of them will get two ways. Not all of them will get pure NBA contracts.

And many of them won't make it to their second NBA deal. but they will be in the NBA. In the regret that I have, I really only regret one thing. Wish I would have played one day in the NBA. I could have said like, yeah, I played that. I'll never forget the moment where I told my kids

were brought up in a household where I never, I've never been, hey, I was great, I was anything special. I met your mother, my wife playing basketball in college. I had an unbelievable experience. We had great success. I played with some of my best friends. I played for a couple of remarkable coaches. But I never forget, like one year I got

done covering the NCAA tournament, got back home. And we started watching the NBA playoffs. And my kids were like, Dad, we thought basketball was over. Like, no college basketball is over. So my daughter, who's now 13 at the time, was like kind of precocious eight-year-old maybe. Well, what kind of basketball is this? This is NBA basketball. What's NBA basketball? Well, basketball. Well, these are the best players in the world. So my daughter looked at me with these brown eyes and says, well, you played in the NBA, right? So no. No, I didn't.

And it was as if you told them that some mythical figure that they, was not real, right? It's if you told them it was not real. Really? I mean, I played professionally. I got paid a good amount of money to play basketball. I just didn't play in that league. They're like, why not? Because I wasn't good enough. That's it. I mean, I wish I could give you,

coach screwed me, right? I hurt my knee and numb. Like, no, I just wasn't good enough. That's it. That's it. They're the best. I was really good. I wasn't that good.

And nothing points out that athletes regret more. And I have friends that have experienced this. The NBA draft is a tough night for most basketball guys. because we all were like, man, I was better than that guy I got drafted, I was better than that guy, like, whatever. 30 NBA teams had two chances to pick you, and they chose not to. But then there are guys which no one argues with, and we all just kind of want to watch. That's Zion Williamson. And I've done this for a long time.

I've covered NBA drafts in person, 10 of them. I've done it on radio and on TV and you name it. tonight by the way we have great draft coverage chris broussard rick buecker jason mcintyre taking through the entire first round plus there'll be a bunch of other wheelings and dealings in the nba a bursart and bursart and bucher they've been doing it for years they got everything on point and only once before can i remember and this is the 16th nba draft since i've been a professional broadcaster. Only once, and that was my first one, when there was LeBron James, did I think there was this type of dynamic person, personality, athletic ability package. And I want to be very clear here.

I thought Ben Simmons was the best one in done. He obviously has not evolved as a shooter, but he's only played in the league for two years. I mean, I think he's a star in the making. just he's got to keep getting better. Kevin Durant was the best score as a one and done. Both are great players. Durant, I've made the argument for the last two years the best player in the league before he suffered

as Achilles' Tenant Air. But neither had the presence of LeBron. Neither had the this ability to just take over a room the way that LeBron does. Even you look how when Kevin Durant loves that wearing the hoodie,

kind of ducking away. LeBron James from the second, he walked into the ballroom at the Hyatt where they do the press conferences leading up to the NBA draft in June of 2003. From that moment, you knew he was different. And Zion Williamson appears to have that sort of appeal.

Yeah, he's going to have to improve his shooting. So did LeBron. He's going to have to lose some weight. LeBron had to continue to build what it was already an incredible body. but the jaw-dropping athleticism, the ability to make people better, the ability to make jaw-dropping plays

at the defensive end of the floor, guard multiple positions, but more than anything, just the presence and the ability to bring joy to people. Like, look, I know we all get caught up in the, all, what's his length and what's his height, and Jay Bill also do the length things and wink at the camera and tweet it.

And it's very funny. But at the end of it, like, it's sports. It's supposed to be fun. and Zion Williamson is fun. And when LeBron James got to the league, it was fun. And it seemed like he had limitless potential. And you know what? His potential was limitless.

You know, I don't, we, we, I've missed. Obviously, people are going to always want to tweet out that I missed on Steph Curry. You know, the league has kind of changed and I missed on Steph Curry. But I know what a star personality looks like. what a star presence was like. I remember the room at the Hyatt when we had Carmelo and Wade and Bosch and Darko.

And even T.J. Ford was drafted that year, and he had a great person. T.J. is the nicest dude on earth. Quiet kid from Texas led them to the phonophore. But man, it was different when LeBron walked into the room. And I feel like it's the same with Zion. He's not as big. He's a little bit thicker.

I am concerned about the injuries. I think he's small ball center, power forward, but can also handle. I'm not saying he's going to be the greatest player ever the way that some believe LeBron James is. But it wouldn't stun me if he becomes an all-time great because there just seems to be something different about him. From his name to his background, to the way he plays, to the way he looks, to the smile that he plays with, to the joy that others have playing with him. Katie's hurt. LeBron's getting older.

Some of these other stars are in their feelings or are still trying to find a home. What if the Zion era begins tonight? My man Ryan Rosillo joins the show upcoming next. Does he think Zion will be a superstar, star, good player? Are we overhyping him because he made Duke likable? And what does he think of what? what's going on with the Celtics.

I say he'll Celtics because he used to cover them for the local, for their, for, for, uh, for Nesson. What does he think of what's going on there? And will LeBron and A.D. work? Will it end in a championship run? You can't, you know, injuries, whatever. Will, will it, will it work? Find out next in the herd.

Be sure to catch live editions of the herd weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific on Fox Sports Radio, FS1 and the IHeart Radio app. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet lost its mind. Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where Sports Slice comes in. I'm Timbo. Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies,

and the stories behind the headlines. We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear. The laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real. From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context and ask the questions everybody wants answered. SportsSlice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them. Listen to Sports Slice on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Sliced Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing,

we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app.

Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the Fourth. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you. conversations about all kinds of stuff. Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker, this linebacker walks up to me, he goes,

hey, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, rec, my mama want you to wave at her. What? Hey, Ms. Parker. Listen to the Clippers show on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

American soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. Ramos sending on the only store at the chip. I'm Tad Ramos. I'm Tom Boe. On our podcast, inside American soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about Policic.

I'm not worried about balligan. I'm not worried about McKinney. My only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. If you're going to look at stats and numbers, he has no shot at making the... this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team.

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcast. You'll see him on after the NBA draft tonight. You can listen and download his podcast at the Ringer.

he's Ryan Rusillo. He joins us in the herd here on Fox Sports Radio. One of the ways you got your start was you provided analysis for the Boston Celtics on New England Sports Network on Nesson, that's their home network. So when you see what's happened to the Celtics kind of post-mortem now, the idea that Kyrie's ghosted them and now Al Horford has opted out, which was expected, but seems to be looking elsewhere to sign a new contract, what's your reaction? Well, this is not expected, right?

It's beat up on the Celtics time right now, and, you know, for a bunch of different reasons. I think people sort of revel in Boston's failure, at least here with the Celtics, because really not much else is failing in that city. So the Kyrie part, I think we all knew two years ago, despite the fact they didn't really give up anything for them. I thought it was a great trade for them. It was the kind of thing where you're going, all right, we realized, He's up in two years, but he, I don't know if he conned to Celtics,

but when you're sitting there saying, if you'll have me back and running an ad campaign where you're hoping to have your jersey retired, that stuff is ridiculous. So the Celtics are sitting there thinking, okay, we have a guy that's a building block the rest of the way, and then we realize middle way through the season, the whole thing is over. I'm sorry, Doug, somebody's not leaving me alone right now as I'm talking to you. So anyway, continuing.

once the Horford stuff happened, I'm just going to get away from this guy, he's not going to be me alone. Once Horford opted out of $30 million, we thought, okay, well, that makes money, he's not going to get $30 million per year, so they're going to give him a longer-term deal, shorter money, allow them some flexibility. And the rumors on the Horford contract now, Doug, are north of like four years and $110 million. And at age 36, he's going to make more than he would have made this upcoming year? Like, you can't do that contract. I don't care who you are. So Aange doesn't do bad contracts. He's not. a guy who's impatient. He crushes everybody in trade. But the fact is he couldn't trade for guys

like Kauai. Like if people were going to say, hey, Kyrie might leave in two years, why was he going to trade for Kauai or Anthony Davis who could leave in a year? So this whole thing with assets and all of these moving pieces, it's been a disaster, but it's actually kind of easy to explain. And I don't really know if the front office is his fault as everybody's making out of speed, but I really think that's more anti-Bossom stuff than it is reality. Okay, some of the New York stuff I do think is generated because some of the shows and some of the shows that you've been on, who's the guy who's stalking you, by the way? And this sounds almost uncomfortable.

You may need to give us, in case you disappear, we may need to know who is the last person to see you alive. I'll text you to the description, but I think we're safe. Okay, fair, fair enough. There's this idea that... I don't know where Kauai's going, man. Leave me alone. All right.

What about Kevin Durant? Like, there's this thought that... Oh, you asked me about Kauai? No, I was going to ask you about Kauai, but I'll ask you about Kevin Durant. He gets hurt. I guess he could sit with the Knicks for another year, but like what, they're going to suck for another year,

and then you're going to, like, I don't, it does feel like this threw a wrench in some people's plans. What do you think is going on with KD right now? Okay, so the injury actually helps Golden State's chances of retaining. Agree. They can say to him, we can give you the fifth year. No one else can do that. why don't you rehab here rehab on our dime we feel terrible about everything that happened there's no

maliciousness with this it just went as bad as it could have gone and so collect the checks hang out here you've mentioned it before and you're absolutely right he's more beloved now an injury than he was an actual accomplishment which is just we're weird man and maybe in a year because things change so quickly like we have to keep reminding ourselves with that what if he stays in golden state what if it's sort of this gap year for him what if some weird thing has to happens where they feel like, oh, wait a minute, every's going to come back, we're all going to come back healthy, let's keep this thing going.

Maybe the Knicks don't add anybody. Maybe R.J. Barrett and his rookie era looks like he's going to be a bus. I'm not saying R.J. Barrett's the bus. But, like, things happened that we can't predict. And he starts thinking, man, I'm actually thrilled I didn't go to the Knicks. So that's one of the scenarios here. The other scenario is the Kyrie, Kevin Durant thing, likely isn't going to happen now, which apparently was the plan that both of them

were going to go to Brooklyn and not the next. Again, those are rumors. and now the other rumor that the Nets may not want Kyrie by himself, it's like, really? Like, you have two years of evidence that it doesn't work. Why would you do this? Like, he's a more expensive, DeAngelo Russell, in a weird way. And so I think the Knicks look at this and go, if he opts in for a year and just takes the money for a year, doesn't do an extension, it gives the Knicks a chance to go out of next year.

And I think the Knicks will play it like a very short-term, see what happens this season, and try to get back and play in 2020, which I know is not what Nick's fans want to hear, because at one point they're thinking, hey, we're getting Kyrie, Katie, and Zion, and now we're not getting any of them, and we didn't trade for Anthony Davis, because I think the Knicks were scared off that it was only going to be a rental if they traded for them. So it's not going according to plan, but the Knicks are going to try to just keep themselves, I think, in play for this whole thing, which makes sense. I think the stuff coming out from league sources about what New York's trying to do,

it may not win the press conference like they tried to do in the past, but I think these guys have just a better plan than they've had in here. Right, right, as opposed to trading everything for Carmelo, who they could have gotten that upcoming office. season, right, instead of freaking out, actually kind of being sensible and being patient. Okay, which brings us to the Lakers who were not patient and they moved heaven and earth to go get Anthony Davis. We don't know who's going to be their point guard.

We don't know who's going to be their two guard. We don't know what center they pick up. We don't know anything about their bench. We have no idea Frank Vogel will be able to communicate well and get LeBron, James, and Anthony Davis to buy in. Or if he can do all that while Jason Kidd stabs, him in the back on the sideline. But I still want you to predict whether or not it'll work.

The Lakers trade is really a great example of really working out for two people. Okay. And everybody has different things. Like I never usually hate below this team up guy because I'm always like, well, wait a minute. For what, though? Trade this guy. Okay, but trade him for what? What's actually available?

That makes sense. Do you want to trade a guy just for the sake of trading him or do you want to trade him and actually feel like you got better or allow yourself to do some more things down the road? And Toronto was a team that could take a swing at Kauai for one year because they had to blow that thing up. They couldn't come back with the Rosen and Lauer anymore because guess what? We had five years of evidence that it didn't work. And it didn't work to extraordinary failures. So as I set you up with that, Polinka, ever since he and Magic got LeBron, Doug, it's been a mess for 12 straight months.

And more and more younger guys don't want to go with LeBron. and they have a guy in Anthony Davis who may want to team up with him and stay long-term and do the extension. And, you know, the rumblings are that he's going to stay there, okay? And it would make sense because, you know, Clutch's got their guys there now. So Polinka, Palinka needed a win. Like, Palinka has this job that since everything's gone wild in L.A. with him, but he just has people doubting him. So I think he felt like, hey, I need some kind of win here.

I'd love to know at what point Griff would have said yes to the trade before all the picks swap, unprotected. It seems like you'd still have been able to pull off that trade without all that additional stuff going out, knowing that the Celtics were lukewarm on it, the Knicks were lukewarm on it. I don't know who the competition was, and he kept giving them all these pieces. And so now they have this cap dilemma of spreading it out amongst a bunch of players are going after one guy. I don't know that I trust point could have built out the rest of the roster based on what they did last year because that was a mess. It was a mess in the moment. So I still think they can figure this thing out, but it's going to be

one of the least, I'd say it's going to lack depth at the top that other teams have. Like this whole idea that they're clearly the favorites in the West is a really, it's oversold, but it was part of the momentum and just people betting at Vegas. All right, a couple more quick ones. Oklahoma City has, you know, they want to stay

under the tax and they're willing to part with Stephen Adams. Does anybody want, look, Stephen Adams is tough, he's funny, he's awesome, he's just a relic in this NBA. you know basically anybody other than

Paul George and Russell Westbrook you can have do they move those pieces tonight I don't know who trades I mean I like everything about Stephen Adams except for his contract and as you point out there's certain guys that are big

that when it comes to you know specific playoff matchups you go I don't know that I can close the game with this guy on the floor and Adams you know it had some moments in the playoffs where against Portland. They're like, how come, you know, maybe it wasn't healthy, but, you know, I get a little tired of that

that after every disappointing playoff performance, the guys either tired or healthy, or unhealthy, excuse me. So I don't really know, I mean, Adams, is you really give you enough to start getting close to $30 million a year? I don't know who would trade for that. And again, it's one of those things where you go, okay, maybe you could trade them, because I don't think it's, you know,

so many times we've looked at contracts and said, that's impossible. You could never move that deal. And the deal gets moved. So I would never. Joe Johnson got traded twice with two different bad contracts. Gilbert Arenas. Yes.

You know, Shard Lewis, obviously, for each other. The guys have been able to get off of stuff, but are you getting off of a contract, and does it actually make you better? And with the way the West is, and I don't like Oklahoma City that much. I don't, you know, Georgia's hurt at the end of year, the Westbrook thing, I've been over now for years. And to say, hey, let's get worse talent-wise when the West is flattened out at the top more than ever, in the last five years, I don't know, I don't know that you're getting back anything that

actually makes you better. Presumse's been pretty good and pretty creative with this stuff. It's just like, okay, so wait a minute, you want to add some kind of, you know, unique talents that maybe do one thing really well that are overpriced and you want to get back something that makes you better? That's going to be really hard to pull off. Last thing. Houston, stop me if you heard this before, but Chris Paul might not be a great teammate.

Nobody seems to enjoy watching James Harden dribble 50 times before making a move. And Mike Dan, Tony doesn't have complete control of the situation, and the Rockets management has fired his entire staff. How does next year look for the Rockets? Probably very similar, because as much as Adams' contracts, immovable $120 million plus for Chris Paul over the next three years feels impossible. I mean, yeah, there's a ton of teams of cap space, and yes, Chris Ball won't hear on the Lakers,

but the Lakers can't do that. And I always think that Chris Paul with LeBron or a really dominant ball point guard with LeBron makes LeBron like it's pointless. You know, you don't need a point guard with LeBron. So when I look at Houston's problems in front of them, I'm not saying, again, it's not impossible. Maybe somebody, you know, a couple teams here strike out in free agency. You get to introduce Chris Paul, an owner that's impatient.

It feels like there's been no juice about his franchise is hanging on to the idea that Paul will be healthy and all these things that work out. But I think it's always important remind ourselves with this. as messed up as this is right now, and now here comes all the old Antony stuff, this thing still almost worked. You know, they still almost did the impossible. Daryl was the

only guy really trying to, you know, maybe O.K.C., it's over there, too. The only guy that really had Golden State in the crosshairs because he knew we had to go through. And I've talked to about it, and he goes, you know, we've calculated the odds that we have to beat them to get to where we want to go, and they had a chance at it in a way that no one really

else has in Toronto beat an unhealthy Golden State team. So to me, about the same comparison. So as bad as it is right now, he got really close to this whole thing working. So, you know, the way we judge teams past sale or whatever, like I think we hand out too many failing grades, teams that actually are pretty close. It's pulling something. Call it right now, Zion, superstar, star, really good player.

What does he become? Oh, no, I think he's a superstar. I just, I know he can't shoot, but it's not just a physical gift. It's the way he improved in such a short amount of time, the way he sees the game. I think his passing in transition in some of the half court, like if he's so as excited as his dunks,

and as long as he's healthy as I worry about his body and how big he's going to get because he's this big right now. I love that kid's personality makeup and all that stuff. So I'd be really surprised if he's not a franchise impacting guy

for a long time. And who do you hate? I know who you like. Who do you hate tonight? Give me a guy who's going to have his name called who I can't wait to see you on with... I'm not going to hate a kid. I'm just not.

I'll text you. All right. And I will try. I will say sources close to Rosillo. Maybe I'll share it on here tomorrow. Look forward to seeing you after the draft. You can check out his work on The Ringer as well. He's Ryan Rissillo.

Thanks for joining us. Glad you didn't get stalked any further. I think we're in the clear. Thank you. That's Ryan Rissillo from ESPN and the Ringer. Let's get to Ryan. Music with the news. No, no, no.

Turn on the news. This is the herd line news. All right, Doug. I am not being stalked. we don't have to worry about that. Not nearly famous enough or well known for that. But we'll pick up where you and Rosillo left off with some NBA free agency talk. According to the New York Post, the Brooklyn Nets might be having a little bit of cold feet regarding Kyrie Irving. People thought Kyrie Irving was going to the Knicks. Then the latest rumors were he was targeting

Brooklyn. Now the Nets are concerned about committing to Kyrie long term without Kevin Durant. So the idea was they were going to get Durant and Kyrie. Let DeAngelo Russell go as a restricted free agent, become an unrestricted free agent. Now they're thinking, well, if we're only going to get Kyrie, why don't we just sign DeAngelo Russell and... Or Cabo Walker is actually from Brooklyn. That's according to the New York Post. That's good.

It's like, are you coming to a party? You're bringing your girl, right? Like, ah, yeah, she can't come. Like, oh, well, it's kind of a couple's thing. It's kind of a couples thing. She's sure she can't come? No, she can't come. She can't come.

She's sick. It's kind of a couple's thing. That's what it feels like with that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. You mean, it wouldn't be ironic if the guy who essentially committed to the Celtics and to the Celtics fans and wasn't asked to do so. It wasn't like one of those questions at a press conference. Like, Kyrie, didn't put him in a bad spot.

He just picked the mic and, hey, if you'll have me, I want in. I want to stay. my name in the rafters. Wouldn't it be ironic if that same guy had kind of the same move pulled by a team I thought she said

I thought she said, are you okay Spider? I thought you said are you okay Spider? That would be ironic. It would be quite good. Let's transition over to the NFL. So where we'd go? He'd settle for the Knicks. But the Knicks have R.J. Barrett is not a point guard, but he's

essentially a point guard. Like, I don't somebody will give him money. I imagine he will end up in Brooklyn because it sounds sort of like a, I don't know, we're not feeling it. Yeah, but you don't want that to get out. If you're Brooklyn, like, you do not want that to get out. I mean, why not? What difference does it make? Well, yeah, because Kyrie wouldn't be in his feelings at all about that. The intense eye roll you just gave me. Yes.

All right. Well, let's turn our attention to the NFL. The controversial rule change in the offseason, Doug, was the pass interference call, which can now become reviewable. Under two minutes, yep. That's correct. And the head of the NFL Refs Association said that they're going to use the preseason as a way to sort all this out. He was talking to Albert Breer. This thing has sort of been moving pretty quickly, and it's not just the official on the field. It's the replay official in New York and how fast they can pick up the play and want to look at it. It's going to get more technical and there's concern about over the length of the game. We're going to see a lot

more stoppages in the preseason until they sort of sort of sort this out for the regular season. Yeah, again, we talked about the law of unintended consequences to get it right. The unintended consequences, games are going to be longer. Timeouts in the last two minutes are going to mean less than they used to.

It's going to stop kind of the flow of play. You know, and I'll be interested to see if there's some past interference that is called that gets reviewed and gets waived off, right? We're all so concerned about the ones that don't get called. And then my question has always been, where do you start trying to call it? Because a lot of times offensive players in making a move, they push off, creates space to the

defense, ball is in the air, then the defense player closes up that space. Are you going to call the first foul? You're going to call the second one? Yeah, it's so vague, which is always what the problem has been in the NFL. Yes. Whether it was catch, not a catch, and then they go the complete other direction. And then they over define it. But the defense, The definition doesn't fit actual rule of play and how it is. It looks like this is going to be the new version of catch versus no catch. And we'll wrap up with what I think could be your favorite story going on right now. You've been selling me on this for the past hour, so I'm going to give it to you.

According to MLB insider from ESPN, Jeff Passon, the Tampa Bay Rays have received permission from Major League Baseball to explore a plan where they will split home games between. Tampa Bay and Montreal. And you love this story, so I'm just going to end up to you. I love this story because there's long been talking the NFL about the only way for Jacksonville to keep a team, right, is for them to split the team with London. Then you don't have the whole season. You can have the franchise located here in the states.

You know, there's tax ramifications for it as well. You know, you want to be in the state of Florida where there's no state income tax. as well. You have an owner that has no problem doing that. Because they can't generate the revenue that other teams can staying stateside, instead of moving the team, you give half the games to London. This is basically that idea, right?

Tampa needs a stadium. They can't get one built. They can't get people in the stadium that they have. Montreal lost the team. Needs a stadium in order to get the team that they want, can't get the nationals back. That ship has sailed. Like, this is the last time I can remember this actually happening was the Kansas City Omaha Kings, NBA.

Before the NBA of the Kings moved to Sacramento, they were in Kansas City, but they used to split. They were the Kansas City and Omaha. They play half their games in both. I think it would work. I mean, like, look, the reality of it is they should just move the team to Portland or to Austin or to somebody that actually wants a baseball club. But if not, like, why not?

Confusing for the players. hard to choose where to live, but I don't know if you can find a way to compensate players and find places for them to live where they don't have to split places, you know, where they don't have to pay for two residences. I don't hate it. I just, I don't see it working long term. Like, it sounds like a transitional thing. Yeah, it's like a transitional thing. Like when people are going to get divorced, now they have like the husband has a, I know a couple like this where the husband has a place and the wife has a place. And then they like tag team on the way out.

They're like, okay, so Mondays through Thursdays, I'm in the house, and then Sundays through whatever, you know, you're in the house. And then we go to our separate condos, whatever, or they share a condo as well? Yeah, I don't know how that works. Because it doesn't, especially with the season like baseball where there's so many games and the season is so long, it seems like. Wouldn't that be better, though? Well, no, I feel like if I'm an NFL player and it's half in Florida and half in London and then I know where I'm going to live in the off season, It's much easier to set that up than to be like literally four months here, three months here. And then the postseason, what do you even do in the postseason?

Don't worry. Well, Braves aren't bad. So, yeah, you might have the post season. I guess you go one year, one city gets it, one year next city gets it. I can think it's the only way to do it. I do think it's fascinating. And it does tell you that they wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to explore it unless the league was like, you guys got a problem. Fix it.

And this is their best way to fix it and hold onto a team. And that's Ryan Music with the News. Well, that's the news. And thanks for stopping by. The Heard Lie News. All right, we have an update on the Justin Bieber challenge, a reported challenge to Tom Cruz. The mythical fight, we have an update to that. And it leads us to want to build other mythical celebrity fights.

we'll give it to you in our best for last next in The Herd. Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd, weekdays in noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Doug Gottlieb in for Colin, this is The Herd. Give us some thoughts on the NBA draft, getting ready for it in mere moments. But as we always like to close out the show, we do so by saving the best for last. It's almost the end of the show, but that doesn't mean we're phoning it in. Nope. We grind to the very last segment.

It's time for best for last. All right. Look, we were going to try and do celebrity fights that we want to see. But instead, let's just get to the celebrity fight that everyone seems really intrigued by. TMZ has a report. Let's go out live. Chopper 9 takes us to Ryan Music. Ryan, you're over the Justin Bieber State.

What's the update? So apparently TMZ learned this says, last Friday, but I guess they were working on the confirmation of sources. Ari Emanuel, the co-CEO of William Morris Endeavor Agency that owns the UFC now. WME. $4 billion, by the way. Yes. Quite a bit of money.

Tillman Furtita now owns the Rockets. Sold, yes. Called Justin's manager, Scooter Braun, and then conference in Dana White. Ari said that this would be an epic fight that needed to happen, and Dana chimed in that he was 100% down with it. We're told Scooter then made it clear. Justin would absolutely fight if Tom wanted to do it. So we haven't heard from Tom Cruise at all. We've not heard from Tom Cruise yet.

Tom Cruise has a wrestling background, right? He's like a high school wrestler. Right. But he's in his 50s. Right, but by all appearances, he does stay in shape for all of these roles that he does. Does his own stunts. He does his own stunt guy. Correct.

How tall is Beaver really? Because Cruz is tiny. Cruz is like 5-6-57, right? I mean, classic actor, I don't think Bieber's particularly big, but I do think he's bigger. Like, they would have to get in the same weight class. There's a lot to do that. This says Tom Cruise, 57. Yeah, which means 5-6.

Okay. Right? No one who's 5-6 has ever listed as 5-6. Justin Bieber 5-9, so are we saying 5-8? Yeah, yeah. But he probably has a little bit of reach. He has youth and reach. But he's got, he's so thin.

Like, he does not look like a guy who's skin. because he's fit. He looks like a guy who's skinny because he's skinny. That's, that's, that's true. He eats skinny pop popcorn. Um, I think I would, I would take Cruz in this one. Cruise is a special time and kind of crazy. Right. But they would have so many rules like, you can't just my hair. No scratching my face. It would be like the anchor man thing, right? Like, nothing above the neck. Like that would be really uncomfortable. Where was the, you grew up in the San Fernando Valley, right? No, I grew up in the South Bay. In the South Bay. Oh, in Torrance, right? What was your elementary school you went to? Riviera. Riviera. Where was the fights? I went to Jordan Elementary first. You used to go fight by the ditch. There's like a ravine sort of ditch man made

outside of school grounds. That's where we'd fight. And then when I went to LaVita Elementary, I forget where we would fight. I think we would fight behind the kindergarten room. That was also where you would make out. You'd kiss a girl was also. So you could have making out simultaneously with a fight.

Where'd you guys fight in Riviera? It shared, so the back fence of the campus was right next to what was called Rocket Ship Park because there was just a giant metal-looking rocket ship that had a slide. So you'd just go right out the back fence and go fight at Rocket Ship. Yeah, go fight a rocket ship. Fight, fight, fight, fight. The makeup spot, though, was the Dodgeball wall. You got to go on the other side of the Dodgeball wall.

So nobody could see you? Yeah. How old were you when you first kissed a girl at the Dodgeball wall? Oh, I didn't kiss him. Not another entry school. Never. I probably didn't kiss a girl until middle school. Yeah, I was in sixth grade.

There was no peck on the cheek in elementary school? Because I did the peck on the cheek. Yeah, no. I don't think so. Okay. This is very important. This is very, very important, pertinent stuff. Tonight is the NBA draft.

And we've obviously, everybody will talk about Zion. And I think he's different. I do think he has superstar potential. And as I told Colin, like, look, there's part of him that gives you the Draymond characteristic where he can guard five positions. And in the NBA, that's unbelievably valuable. I know you'll hear people read off stats of offense,

but it is, it may be not a 50-50 split. It's a 60-40 split, but let's not underestimate the value of that 40% at the defensive end. And defensive versatility is really, really important, as well as toughness and rebounding. He's a good ball handler. He has a high basketball IQ.

It's going to have to improve his shooting, but they all do when they come to the NBA. And that comes down to work. ethic and if you watch how his body's changed, you watch how his games evolved, then you think he's got the work ethic. I'm not as big on RJ Barrett as most people, and I was coming into the year, but he's a little bit stiff and I don't think he can play without the ball in his hands. We've discussed this all week with Houston and Chris Paul and James Harden. Like, if he has the ball, he can make play.

That's all he's ever done is make plays from self make plays for others. But in order to do that, be a successful NBA team, you've got to be great at it. And I'm not convinced that he's great at it athletically. Maybe he didn't pass because he didn't trust his teammates. Maybe he didn't pass because he doesn't like to pass and he's so used to scoring so much. I'm not as convinced. John Morant's just a freak, absolute freak athlete. He does love to pass.

And I've had college teams, the coaches that said we did everything we could and he still always made the right play. always found the right guy. I think he's got to improve as a shooter. I think there's going to be an evolutionary process, but he has wow athleticism, wow athleticism. You know, it's like a pitcher with a plus plus fastball. Like, yeah, do you got to locate? Sure.

But there's just armed talent that you can't, nobody else has. For his size and his length and the way he plays and the confidence with which he plays, I don't know if he'll be an all-star, but I do think that he'll be a guy. For Memphis, that's kind of what Memphis needs. They need somebody who is good, makes people better, but also incredibly energetic and fun to watch, and John Moran has that. Obviously, there's a drop off after those three.

You know, Darius Garland, people likened to Damien and Lillard. We just didn't get a chance to see him enough. And this is a problem now. It's going to continue to be a problem in the NBA when they go to Nunn and Dunn. Where, yes, Damien Lillard has been awesome, and he did come from a mid-term. major but he also was four years in college three years in a red shirt because of injury and so

his evolution to an NBA player to an NBA star made borderline NBA superstar hasn't taken as long as it will for an 18 year old Darius Garland we're asking we're asking guys to step into a man's world of 25 years old that 19 years old asked them to compete when they haven't he's only playing a handful of games in college um guys like a cam reddish checks a lot of boxes but there's some off the court stuff not necessarily like he's a good human being, but love of the game, getting along with teammates, having kind of a fire and a motor,

because there's always a new set of guys that are going to try and take your lunch money. So I'm not sure how that fares in the NBA. I'll be on Twitter, I'll be on the bird all night. Keep it here to Fox Sports Radio. We get a great, great NBA draft show for you with Broussard, Buecker, and Jason McIntyre. And tomorrow we'll be back,

Let's try and tell you who won, who lost. I would expect some big-name players to be moved. We still don't know where the superstars are going, but we know that the era of Zion Williamson begins tonight. And I can't remember another time since 2003. I've been more excited to see a draft pick. I'm Doug Gottlieb, this is The Herd. One more Herd?

The Herd streams 24 hours a day, seven days a week within the IHeart Radio app. Search Herd to listen live or on demand whenever you'd like. Last night, a blown call changed a game. This morning, the internet law. lost its mind. And nobody's telling you exactly what happened. That's where SportsSlice comes in. I'm Timbo. And every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the biggest moments in sports and giving you the real story behind the headline. And we're going straight to the source,

the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions in the moment, and the stuff nobody gets to hear. Listen to Sports Slice on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slices Life 12 in the TikTok podcast network on TikTok. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David

Letterman help make you funnier. This week my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert

Smigel and Friends on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get, your podcasts. What's up, guys? This is Clever Taylor the 4th. And on my podcast, The Cliverts Show, I'm bringing you conversations about all kinds of stuff.

Like being an internet famous referee. We're in the middle of a game. This linebacker walks up to me, he goes, A, ref, my mom wants you to wave at her. What? Time out. Quarterback on office blue 42. Hey, ref, my mama want you to wave at her.

What? Where's she at? Hey, Miss Parker. Listen to the Cliffer Show on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, fam? It's Isaiah Thomas. And I'm C.J. Toledano. It's our favorite time of the year on our podcast point game, the playoffs.

We're digging into the biggest surprises of the season. And I'm looking back on some of my greatest playoff moments. If we didn't talk ever again, I was hungry. You just understood. That's how personal it got. Wow. Then after that game seven, Marquis came to him. He's like, you know I love you.

dog. You know, it's all love. This was just playoffs. This was just basketball. So listen to Point Game on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.