The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - A New Field Guide to Confirmation (with Colin MacIver)

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

Confirmation can be a powerful turning point in our relationship with Christ. Today, Jeff and Colin MacIver from Ascension talk about the beauty of the sacrament of Confirmation and point us to a new resource- The Catechist’s Field Guide to Confirmation- that will prepare confirmation candidates for an impactful encounter with the Holy Spirit. Snippet from the Show The sacrament of Confirmation is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that is permanent, it makes a powerful and lasting change in the soul. Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail] Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes!

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show, episode 179, a new field guide for confirmation with Colin McIber. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavins. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show. The evening. in my life that I remember more than any other evening as far as having an impact on my relationship with the Lord was in 1971 when I was confirmed. I was confirmed in May of 1971. And I remember that night very well. And if I forget, all I have to do is look at my book because there's a picture of me

standing there as a young man with a new Bible. And it was that night that something happened to me that changed my life forever. And I got a hunger for the word of God that night. And I remember saying to my dad, Dad, what just happened? I was confirmed, what happened? And my dad said, well, you're an adult in the church. And that's about all I knew.

I memorized a few of the questions that the bishop might ask. He didn't ask me any questions. But that night, I took that Bible, and I put it on my bedstand. And then I looked at it. I smelled it. My hands went through it. there was something special about that night for me. And I look back now and I see that the seeds of hunger for God's Word,

I think were put into my heart in a big way on the night that I was confirmed. We're going to be talking today with Colin McIver. Colin McIver is a friend of ours at Ascension Press, and he has devoted himself to teaching. In fact, he teaches at St. Scholastica Academy. Where is that? You're going to wonder, after listening to him, Well, it's in Covington, Louisiana, but he doesn't sound like it because he's from Rhode Island.

He teaches at an all-girls school. And Catechus, Red Alert, Red Alert, we've got something for you that's going to make your job easier when it comes to confirmation. And it's a new Catechus Field Guide to Confirmation. It is officially the Catechus Field Guide to Confirmation. And it's going to help you. And I'd like to introduce to the show today, Colin McIper. Good to have you. Thank you, Jeff.

very good to be here with you. Well, you know, I was just mentioning, Colin, that in all seriousness that night that I was confirmed, that was the night, get this. I came up that night with a system to read the whole Bible. That's back in 1971. And my system was I would read one verse a night for the rest of my life. And by the time I'm old, say 30, I will have read the entire Bible. But that lasted about a week or so. But I really believe. that something did happen to me. And, you know, the church, we can get into this a little bit. The church teaches about confirmation and what really happens. But let's be honest, when we stand back, it doesn't look like a lot is happening to these kids. Am I right or wrong? Oh, I think it can look like that for

sure. There's a way in which, I guess you could say, it's ontologically hidden. What's, what's happening in the depth of the soul is sometimes revealed and sometimes hidden. I guess that's how God has always worked. but there are some who have powerful experiences and it's immediately evident you know you go home and you decide you're going to read a verse of the Bible every night for the rest of your life but there are others who walk out of the church and unfortunately some who don't walk back in for quite some time that maybe confirmation as a graduation and it's really that mentality we're trying to combat because confirmation is equipping for a mission a lot of people get equipped and then they kind of leave and we don't want that to happen. Right. Well, you know, for those that might be listening to this podcast and for some reason caught their attention on Google, what is confirmation? Let's start with what is confirmation? Because I think a lot of people, they know the word, but I'm not sure they really understand what's happening here. Yeah. So I would start with saying that confirmation is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, most fundamentally. And it's an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that's permanent and lasting. It makes a mark on our soul that there's no taking back. There are three sacraments, we would say that enact what we would call an ontological change or a change in the soul that there's no going back from. And the first is baptism. The second is confirmation. And the third is holy orders, where we say to a priest, you're a priest forever according to the order. in Melchizedek. And that that priestly vocation really starts at baptism where we become priest, prophet, and king in a way that permanently changes our soul. Confirmation is the completion of Christian initiation. So what begins at baptism in terms of two things that I really

emphasize in the book, an identity and a mission, who you are and what you came to do. Those two things are put into our minds, our hearts, our souls at baptism. And confirmation seals, the way the catechism puts it is it deepens that identity and then equips for that mission. And yes, fundamentally, it's an outpouring of the Holy Spirit that deepens your identity as a son or daughter of God and equips you for the mission of Christian discipleship. Yeah, well put. You know, when I was reading the catechism, I'm fascinated with the topic of confirmation because I see it as the key to really being a great disciple for the Lord. you're empowered and the catechism says you're empowered to be a courageous witness an authentic witness of

of jesus and i know that for me all you know the years growing up i believe something did happen to me with confirmation but i didn't have any sense at all of what it means to be a disciple of christ or to be a witness for jesus that came that came later but i didn't have that understanding i was young when I was confirmed. Let's talk about that for a minute because a lot of people will say, well, get them confirmed when they're young. Get them confirmed when they're older. How does your field guide address that? We're addressing the reality that I would say most standard in the church right now. And the reality that's most standard is that the age is all over the place.

So in our confirmation resources, we've addressed mostly the spot of 7th grade through 11th, 12th grade. I would say the field guide expands that, that if you are in a diocese is doing restored order, I think a lot of what's in there would still very much make sense in terms of the fundamentals of confirmation. But if you really want, if you wanted to start, say you had a bunch of directors of religious education from different diocese all over the country and you wanted to start a good fight, you could walk to them and say, what age should young people be confirmed? Then you walk out and come back hours later and make sure they're okay.

Yeah. Well, I guess more importantly than when. is as how that formation takes place. And that really, that brings us to, you know, they're not going to teach themselves. We're not going to give them a PDF. And right now at the time of this recording, we're in the middle of COVID-19.

Oh, yes. This is a new reality now. And talk about a new reality for Sacramento prep. My friends, listening, listen, if you have kids that are going to be confirmed in the next year or two, you need to start thinking about how that formation is going to take place. And this is for everybody. Grandparents, you have grandchildren.

This is something that you can help with with something like this great, you know, Catechus field guide that Colin McIver has put together. But let's talk about that, Colin, the who. How are they going to get prepared? They're not doing it themselves. So there's a pretty big cast of characters. And it takes a village to raise a disciple for sure. it. We're starting here with the formators in the parish. So let's say you have a director of

religious education. In some cases, it's the youth minister. In my parish, really, the DRE and I work in tandem. And I work more on the youth ministry side. But those two who are our parish staff, or the one who's parish staff, is tasked with finding volunteers, finding a cast of characters who are themselves credible witnesses, who are disciples looking to make disciples and to bring them into that process. So we kind of start there with those who are going to officially be part of the program that the parish has gathered together. And of course, in the middle of COVID-19, that might look a little bit different as well. And then I'm going to say that it's always been the case, but I think it's very fashionable in 2020 to say now more than ever,

But now more than ever, parents and sponsors are so critical to that process. And parents, first and foremost, when that baptismal flame is handed on to parents, it symbolizes that the fire of faith is theirs to hand on to be the primary catechists of their children. And even if we go on the side of more sociological research, we know that the best indicator of whether or not a young person will continue in the practice of their faith is how engaged are their parents. And I can't cite exactly which study, because it was some workshop I was at before COVID, and everything's a little bit of below before COVID. But I was very interested that some researcher was saying that not only is it parents who are engaged in their faith, it's parents who can have conversations about faith. One thing we emphasize in the field guide, and one thing that our chosen program is really equipped to do is to engage parents in this process.

When parents come at the beginning of the program in my parish at St. Anselm in Madisonville, Louisiana, we bring parents in, and I know that for some of them, they're terrified. In our case, as juniors in high school, they're terrified to talk to their teenager about God and faith and religion, and they really haven't had any practice. So before COVID, we would put a chick-fil-a biscuit in their hand and just mentor and foster a conversation so that a deeper conversation can take place. So I think that's one of one of the things we're trying to emphasize in the field guide that what happens programmatically at the parish really needs to feed into the home and then you have the sponsors as well the sponsor who's been picked who often is the grandparent i see that as is it really yeah more this year i guess among this field of candidates it became more apparent because some of the grandparents couldn't come to a sponsor meeting at all we we had to to zoom them in, and they were trying to figure out of Zoom. But for a lot of them, they would say that the grandparent is the one who, when they think

of the practice of the Catholic faith, they go a generation back into their grandparents. What's the role of it? What's the role of the official Colin McIver role of the sponsor? So back when we were working on Chosen, Amy and I will share with our listening audience what Chosen is. Sure. Yeah. So Chosen is Ascensions confirmation program.

It's 24 lessons. It's structured according to the RCIA model where we're really trying to draw people into the corigma or the core content of the faith. We're trying to teach sacraments to address in a general but powerful way. The church is teaching on morality and vocations. And it's really a tour to force through the Catholic faith for 24 sessions. It is. You guys did a fantastic job.

And I think it's the gold standard, actually. when it comes to confirmation and your your field guide is just the perfect thing to to bring to bring along you know on that journey but you i interrupted you when you were about to talk about uh you know the role of the sponsor yeah yeah so so when we first sat down one of the things that amy and i were tasked to do with chosen was to write a guide for parents and a guide for sponsors and so i looked in the code of canon law i was like okay so the catechism tells me some things um the code of canon law gets pretty specific about how a sponsor is supposed to certified to the bishop that a candidate is prepared. And so that indicates that the sponsor needs to be part of, part of that formation process.

And it also says, ooh, it's either, I don't have in front of me, it's either in the catechism or the code of canon law, where it says that the sponsor is to take care that the candidate behaves according to the standards of a Christian witness. Sure. So we're looking at somebody who, here's the word I'm going to throw out. out and it's it's uh pope francis favorite word and it's accompaniment you know that the sponsor is one who's supposed to accompany um accompany the candidate before and then literally during the ceremony of course they've got the hand on the shoulder um and in covid i think we can do that maybe we'll have to

put a glove on or something i don't know who picks the sponsor i mean is is it um is it normal for the the youngster to pick someone or or is it the responsibility the parents? I think it really does more fall toward the candidate themselves. Now, that's not something I think we get a whole lot of specificity on in, you know, in official documents, but in practice, I recommend that the candidate has a big hand in that because what you're looking for is somebody who you can talk to. So for a candidate to identify, here is somebody who's confirmed, who's living their faith, who is an attractive witness to me, and also who I can talk to. who I feel like I can ask questions, who I would, I would want to walk with me in this practice

of the faith. What happens in practice sometimes, though, is parents kind of decide on an honorific aunt or uncle. Yeah. They've got four kids, you know, and they have already had three sponsors, you know, for the first three. And there's one sibling who hasn't been a sponsor yet. Guess what?

That's kind of natural, though. It is natural. And I like to challenge sponsors when when we have a sponsor meeting, I like to say to them that the Holy Spirit was not shocked or surprised that you were picked. Even listening to what a sponsor actually does, you get a little bit intimidated. It may be the opportunity for the sponsor to stir and defame their own confirmation, gifts, and identity. And that's a powerful story when that happens. I've had some sponsors say to me after sessions, I wish our program was like this. And I'm like, well, this is your program.

You're still engaged in this. Do you have any pictures of yourself when you were confirmed? Ooh, I'm sure I do somewhere. I'd like to put that in the show notes. I can put mine in there. It's the two bearded Catholics and their confirmation pictures. Maybe we'll work that out one way or another. You're listening to discussion between myself and Colin McIver with this book, The Catechus.

It's not actually a book. It's more like a, well, it's a small book, and I'll put a link in the show notes for you, but it's the Catechus Field Guide to Confirmation. I still remember my sponsor, Maurice Weiss. I don't know where Maurice is anymore. He lived across the street. My parents knew him, and he was my sponsor. And I ended up having a wonderful relationship with the family as a result of it.

Maurice, if you're out there and you are listening, Please get in touch with me. You can get in touch with me at the Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. When we come back, I'm going to continue my conversation with Colin. We're going to talk about some things that parents can do to ensure that their children are getting everything that they should get out of the confirmation experience. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show.

The Saints of the Old Testament would have longed to see what we see in the new covenant, especially God's presence in the Holy Ukraine. Hi, I'm Dr. Andrew Swaffer, theologian, and co-author of Ascension's newest Great Adventure Bible study, Hebrews, the New and Eternal Covenant. In this eight-session study on the book of Hebrews, Jeff Kavens and I highlight the movement from the old covenant to the new and show how Jesus Christ fulfills the deepest meaning of the temple and Old Testament priesthood. Through this study, you'll gain a deeper appreciation for the power of the mass, as well as a better understanding of core Catholic beliefs regarding salvation, the sacraments, the creed, and Mary's role in salvation history. To learn more and discover how you can start this study on your own

or with a group, visit ascensionpress.com backslash Hebrews. That's ascensionpress.com backslash Hebrews. Hey, I want to welcome you back. Do you know of anybody that's going to be confirmed in the next year? Anybody? Do you want to give them that boost? Do you want to give them that edge? Do you want to give them an advantage to understand what's actually happening when they are

confirmed? May I recommend to you the Catechus Field Guide to Confirmation? Colin McIver is the author. We're going to put that in the show notes for you. I think that this book can become a bestseller. And I think it can make a big difference in people's lives. I know Colin. I know he's a good teacher. And a shout out to all of our friends in Louisiana. That's where Colin teaches. That's an all-girls school. Colin, that must be an interesting experience to teach it in all-girls school. Yes, blessed among women, as I say. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about parents for a little bit. What are two or three things that you would recommend to parents who are going to go through this in the next year or two? So the first one is going to be pretty obvious, but every time Mary appears from heaven, it's her advice. So it's solid advice. Pray, pray, pray.

You know, the first thing is to greet the situation with prayer. I have a section in the field guide. I talk about St. Monica parents who are deeply engaged. And maybe they're doing great adventure Bible studies. They're super involved in their parish. And they're lamenting that their 15-year-old is not right now. And the first thing and the most effective thing to do is to pray. The second thing is really to listen with some simple.

questions to, I have parents turn to the candidate and just ask them the question, how do you feel about getting confirmed? And it really challenged the parents, just listen, because if we don't start from that position of honesty, then we're not going to get anywhere. And parents may find that they have a son or daughter who has really wrestled with even their belief in God or their understanding of the church, or you may find that you have, and I'll bring this up because it happened three times in a week, you may have a young person who desires to be more engaged in their faith and who really desires for their family to be. I had a young man come up to me after a session in tears when we were doing our week-long session, just a little, not like

snotty tears or anything, but just a little visibly shaken because he said, my parents only go at Christmas and Easter. And I want to go to Mass as a family. And I was, you know, this was like, you know, a 16-year-old like football player, you know, probably very, very like popular, well-spoken. I was like, interesting that this kid desires more faith in his family. So one thing parents can do is to listen. So it's to pray. It's to listen. And I think the third thing is just to step up the engagement of faith in your own family. Just the way in which, if there isn't a daily rosary, well, if there was ever a year to start doing what Mary says to do at Fatima, it's 2020. Sure. Yeah, I would agree with you. The rosary is a very accessible way to introduce

them, the candidates to the life of Jesus. Another thing I'd recommend, and I'd recommend this for about everything, though, Colin, and that is that people would understand the Bible, maybe the unlocking the mystery of the Bible, eight half-hour sessions to kind of learn the whole story because you're being, you are baptized into a story, you're being confirmed in a story, and that's God's amazing plan of sheer goodness, you know, the very first paragraph, paragraph of the, of the catechism. What are, what are some of the, a couple of the things that that young people today are facing that maybe their parents were not facing, and talk to me just briefly here about how confirmation can address those things.

Yeah, so there are many. I'll start with the obvious technology piece, and I'll go right for the jugular here, that our young people are faced with a barrage of pornography in a way that their parents weren't. And I think in confirmation preparation, there's a chance, maybe even to meet some of those challenges head on, but at least to talk about our relationship with technology, with our phones. Another thing that comes through technology is there's a fast-paced indoctrination into all sorts of alternate ways of thinking and ideologies that maybe parents face, to sure, but maybe not at the speed and ferocity with which our young people face it.

So I think that the confirmation preparation and any solid presentation of the faith, this is kind of go back to Chosen, why those 24 sessions are so important, is to really meet them head on with a full and robust presentation of what the Catholic faith is because they're getting, you know, I'll bring up TikTok. It's these, you know, 30-second videos, but they're powerful, like, propaganda. the deliverers, and for them to have a more robust conversation about what the proposition of the faith is, the way that confirmation can address it. Or even the way that you start in pre-evangelization is with the same question that Jesus started with. What do you really

want? So to start, yeah, there are challenges, I would say the rapid fire, everything from pornography to what what Pope Francis calls ideological colonization, all these ideas that are thrust at our young people. Right, right. Those are identity, political, political persuasions, all kinds of things that they're facing it. And I know that young people have a tendency to want to kind of go with the flow, sort of speak. And that's, that's difficult, you know, especially when inside, deep inside you know, you know something this couldn't be. But you want to, want to be popular and you want to be part of, you know, the end group, so to speak. Yeah.

Yeah, those social pressures that, you know, I think it's good for parents too and sponsors to go back and just get in touch with your inner teenager for a moment, to go back and to even almost in a meditative way remember the teen experience. That's something that I periodically do, especially if I bomb. And whether in the classroom or a campus ministry experience, I go back and just try to remember how would I have experienced this as a teen? And that can be helpful to just kind of go back. We're all recovering teenagers, Jeff.

Oh, yeah, that's for sure. Well, you know, there's a, I don't know where I heard this, but I thought it was a great idea. People do it in different forms, but it is Jeff Kaven's writing a letter to his seventh grade self. You know, it's Colin McIver writing a letter to his whatever year you were, you know, confirmed.

And when you think about that, That's actually a kind of a good exercise for parents, you know, to write a letter to their child candidate slash candidate from the perspective of who I am now and what I would say, you know. I mean, if you're listening to this show right now, you're probably interested in the faith. So can people give this field guide? to their confirmation teachers? Is that appropriate? Say, here's a gift I want to give you? Oh, I think so.

I think that would, I think they would love it. Absolutely. Yeah, even I think for parents to say, hey, I found this resource. I have parents who do that at the school and at the parish who'll run across something

and say, this would be great for your faculty. And we always meet that with, with a feeling of, wow, well, thanks for thinking of us. And we look, and there are some things that parents have turned me on to that we've integrated wholesale because maybe it's something we hadn't heard of before.

So, yeah, I think getting it to a catechist, maybe handing a copy to your pastor, not a bad idea. That's what I was just going to say, you know, buy a copy and give it to your pastor, the deacon in your church. As we get ready to kind of wind this thing down, I'm going to give the information and the show notes on how to get in touch with getting your book, you know, this field guide to confirmation, but I get to thinking, you know, I'm thinking back, I'm always thinking biblically. It's just, I, just that way it started when I was confirmed. And it just won't stop. But, but I was thinking, you know, Matthew chapter three and four, you have Jesus, he comes from Galilee, he comes down to the Jordan. He is baptized at the Jordan in Matthew chapter three and then he comes up out of the water the holy spirit comes down upon him and he is now

beginning his public ministry in the same place that joshua began his public ministry really crossing the jordan in the book of joshua well i say all that to say this that that at the at the end of jesus ministry he said as the father has sent me so i send you and jesus really gave us that of being baptized and confirmed and then going out into public ministry. This is something we're supposed to be doing, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So I get really excited about confirmation because I see these young people as people who have come up out of the water.

Now the Holy Spirit's coming down upon them and completing that which started at baptism. and I think that we can encourage them, that you're a disciple of Christ. You can walk with Christ. You can walk in that power. And there is power and comfort available to you in, you name the situation. You name the situation you're going through at school.

You name the situation you're going through, you know, in sports or whatever it is. There's now power available for you. I think that is really, really an exciting. exciting thought you know it is and it's an exciting thought for for any generation at any age but i think if again we look at 2020 and there's all sorts of memes about murder hornets and all sorts of things that are happening but i think that this generation of youth is itchy for a mission and for the equipment to actually accomplish a mission and if if that mission isn't a mission given from the

holy spirit there are other spirits that are trying to to be at work in the world and there always happen. But this is the time, I think, for us to really seize upon the sacraments of the church and to point the power of the Holy Spirit right into the culture. There are young people who are deeply passionate about justice. And you know what? The church is into justice. The Holy Spirit is the author of justice. There are young people who are just itching for change in transformation, if we show them what that authentically looks like, and then allow the Holy Spirit to charge them up. We're going to have a generation of saints on our hands. Well, Colin mentions justice, and just to throw that in, if you're interested in justice,

anybody's interested in justice, I've been studying that lately, and I have been really caught in Habakkuk, Chapter 1, and verses 1 through 4. It says that in the times that Habakkuk spoke, the law was paralyzed, the unrighteous, surrounded the righteous, and perverted justice. And that's what we're up against right now in many ways. And so, wow, what a time to walk in the power of the Holy Spirit, knowing that there really is an attempt to paralyze, I think, the word of God in our effectiveness, and to pervert justice. And Colin, you mentioned young people are interested in justice. This is a fight that I would think that people would be interested in. All right.

So it's been so good to talk to you. And I'm just so glad that it wasn't Connor McGregor because at first I thought it was Connor McGregor and it was going to be about the UFC ultimate fighting. And I was nervous. And then they- Our conversation, yeah. And they straightened me out. It's Colin McI, I knew that.

I've known you for a number of years now and you do great work. work. And I think that the field guide, like a bird field guide, you know, is meant to accompany you. It's not the whole thing. It accompanies chosen. It accompanies, you know, different programs around the country. But a field guide sure is nice to have when you're in the middle of it all and you need to just find out some information real quick. So I appreciate you coming on the show today. My friends, what's that? I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, we got to get together. When I come back down to Louisiana, I stay with the world famous. I'm going to say that now.

He's such a great guy. Chef John Falls, he's such a good, dear friend of mine, really the one of the closest human beings on earth to me. And I spend about a month down in Baton Rouge, and you and I can get together and we can have a crawfish boil. That sounds like a party to me. I would like a big crawfish boil, have some corn in there, potato. hate is and we can do it early. Why do we have to wait to that whole Mardi Gras season? We'll just come on down early. But that's off to you and what you're doing in the church today, Colin. You're doing a great job. Let's close. I want to close in prayer. And my friends, you've been listening to

Colin McIver talk about confirmation. And I really do want to encourage you to get a hold of the field guide, get involved in your children's confirmation because something really is happening here that is giving them the power to deal with the things that you know what they've been dealing with. You know they talk to you and you know what's happening. They need that extra edge, that power and authority that only God can give them. In the name of the Father's Son and the Holy Spirit, Lord, I lift up my friends to you right now and I ask you to bless them. I pray, Lord, I pray that you will give them boldness in sharing. the good news with their children, grandchildren, their nieces, their nephews, that they would be

active and in bold and kind in wanting to get involved and to be an encourager during the season of confirmation. I pray, Lord, for all those listening right now that you would move upon their heart and and give them even creative ideas on how to be a part of their niece, their nephew, their son, their daughter's life, their grandchildren. I pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. Amen. Well, my friends, I thank you for praying for me, and I'm praying for you. I love you. And I pray that Jesus Christ would truly be formed in your life and that, yes, COVID-19 is a difficult time right now. But you know what? We can walk through it and the Lord will be with you. And there's

going to be incredible things that will and can happen in your own life. A few weeks ago, I was sharing with you what happened in my life during this time. And God can use these times to do tremendous things in your life and in your family's life. I hope that it has to do with confirmation in your life right now. God bless you. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you.