The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Distance Amplifies Difference: Reflecting on Racism (with Fr. Josh)

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

On today’s show, Jeff is joined by our very own Father Josh as they reflect on the racial divide in our country, and the events of the past week. We continue to mourn the passing of George Floyd and all those killed under racist motives, and pray for peace, unity, and forgiveness in our country. Snippet from the Show “We as Catholics are ministers of reconciliation.” Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail] Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes! Special Guest: Fr. Josh Johnson.

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show, episode 169, distance amplifies difference. A talk with Father Josh Johnson. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show.

So everybody's talking about it, talking about what happened in Minneapolis and has spread throughout the country, and some people have said that America is on fire, on fire for particular reasons. Good evening, I'm Jeff Kavens, and joining me on this very special episode. We have Healing Divisions with Father Josh Johnson, and we are going to be talking about these issues for the next hour, and we're going to also take your questions. And we are here to talk this evening about this issue and go beyond words and beyond simply a talk into what needs to take place in our lives as Catholics and how does this affect us and what role do we have in the country today. Well, good evening, Father Josh.

Hey, Jeff. How are you, man? Well, I'm like you. You know, I've been kind of glued to the television over the last few days. And I'm from Minneapolis, so we're kind of at the epicenter of what is. taken place, but I, I know that you know that what has taken place didn't start in Minneapolis. It's been going on for a long time. And we're going to, we're going to talk about that this evening. And so I, I appreciate the opportunity to get together with you. Longtime friend, my good brother in the Lord. And I imagine you're busy too, huh? It's been very overwhelming. It's been very busy. I would lie if I say I wasn't stressed out these days. You know, just

deal with my own trauma, you know, like this is a, it's a traumatic thing to do to witness a human being get killed on camera. And, um, and so that it just brought to the surface of some of my own stuff that I've been through that I've experienced in my life. And so I'm trying to deal with that trauma, bring it to the Lord and prayer and also be present to my people as a pastor right now and help them to become saints. Well, I've been down to your parish, Holy Rosary in Santa Ma, Louisiana. And, uh, you do a great job. You do a great job. You do a great job down there. And we're talking about this. We both have experience and you have experience in this area. And I know that you shared that before. We want to hear some of that this evening as well,

and a little bit about your background. And I myself, people might say, well, what do you know about these types of issues? Well, one, I'm white. And that's half the equation right there for a lot of what people are going through. And the other is that two of my three daughters are African-American. And so I do have some experience. And as both of you, you and I would say, skin in the game, literally. And so a little bit about your background for those that are just joining us from around the world and they might not know who you are. Give us a little background of your own kind of walk with the Lord and where you, how you got to today. Yeah, man.

I mean, I fell in love with Jesus Christ on June 26, 2004, 8 o'clock p.m. Saturday night at Stubmanville. South. And it was a shock to me that the Lord invited me to discern the priesthood because growing up, I hated the Catholic Church. My mom is a faithful Catholic. My dad is a faithful African-American Methodist Episcopalian. And so black dad, white mom, he was a cop. She was a nurse. I grew up experiencing as a kid, a lot of prejudice and discrimination. But I just never really understood God growing up. And so I strayed from the church and was invited. to Protestant youth conferences like Acquire the Fire in high school, had encounters with Jesus,

and then after those encounters with Christ at those conferences, I definitely fell away from my Catholic faith altogether until a friend of mine invited me to Stubanville South, June 26, 2004, and during Eucharistic adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Jeff, I fell in love with Jesus. I was able to perceive the face of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, and I perceived his voice in prayer, tell me that he loved me and I was I was living in mortal sin I was a kid who had done terrible

things had not repented of them and when Jesus saw me he didn't tell me Josh I used to love you before you began this this life of mortal sin or I'm going to love you after you repent he saw me in my mess and in my brokenness and I perceived him tell me that he loved me and so I began to cultivate a like a very intentional relationship with Jesus Christ in the in the blessed the sacrament in the Eucharist as well as the scriptures. And eventually I said yes to his invitation to discern the priesthood. But the Lord has consoled me in so many ways. And he's loved me so well that throughout my life ever since that day in 2004, my greatest desire, Jeff, has only been to console the heart of Jesus because he's satiated that ache in my heart. He's quenched my thirst.

He's fulfilled my desires. And so one of the things I've done since, then is just delve into the word of God and ask Jesus, how can I console your heart? Like, how can I fulfill your desires? And in the scriptures, in John 17, Jesus Christ, he reveals his desire to us. Like, he allows us into a glimpse of his most sacred heart of what he desires. And he prayed to the Father in John 17, and in his prayer to the Father, which is so beautiful that he allowed us into that prayer because it's such an intimate moment. But in his prayer with the Father, he said, Father, I desire that they be one as we are one. He wants unity in the body of Christ. And so the devil, obviously, he wants the opposite of what Christ wants. The devil wants

disunity in the body of Christ. The devil wants division in the church of Jesus Christ. And he's done a pretty good job of cultivating disunity in the body, not only in recent days, but really since this country was established as what it is today, it's been, founded on racial division since the beginning. And so there's a demonic stronghold that I think we haven't addressed well in the church. And I think whenever we come together as disciples of Jesus Christ and address this well, we will begin to console the heart of Jesus who does everything for us. Yeah.

And I know it's true. You're all in. You're all in with the Lord. And you've given your entire life, obviously, to the Lord. You know, as we look at the situation that it started in Minneapolis, started, I say. We know it didn't start in Minneapolis, but there was an igniting of the flame, if you will. You know, just the other day, and we can talk about this a little bit later, a lot of people saw the image of a big semi-truck driving through a crowd on 35W bridge.

As it turns out, my daughter, Jackie, was leading the music in a rally there, a peaceful rally. and so it hit home at home at home very very near to my heart but you know that a lot of people everyone now and then we'll hear we'll hear people say that things are really starting to get bad as if this is all springing up out of out of nowhere but but you mentioned it just a moment ago and that it has roots it goes it goes back and well talk to us a little bit about that you know this didn't start in Minneapolis, did it? No. No, I was actually, I was watching a news program one day. And the news, the host of this particular TV show, he was a white man. I imagine he's a disciple of Jesus Christ. He seems like a nice enough guy. And he was interviewing an African-American woman.

And in the show he said to her, something that really caught me off guard. And in her as well, he said, it seems to me that things are starting to get really bad here in America. And you can just see the look on her face and she was taking aback and she said i'm sorry my brother but what you mean starting to get bad she said were things better in 1619 when the institution of slavery began the enslavement of african americans happened in this country that lasted for over 250 years it was it was the law of the land that said that african americans weren't really fully people and they were they were property she said were things better whenever the Reconstruction period began and African Americans were arrested for walking out past curfew and they were put into prison systems, which were pretty much the same thing as slavery and they were lynched for years. She said, were things better whenever the institutional laws of Jim Crow began, when this legal system that said that blacks and whites couldn't pray and play and work and be in the same spaces and places at the same time, she said, have things been better since the Civil Rights Act?

whenever more practices and policies have been put in place. Practices are those unwritten rules and policies are those written rules that were established immediately after the Civil Rights Act that continue to perpetuate the racial divide that continue to accommodate one group of people and alienate and discriminate and another group of people. She said things have never really been that great. And I would go on to say that from an ecclesial, ecclesial point of view in the church things haven't been that great either. Dr. Martin King Jr. many years ago, he said that

the most segregated time in America is at 11 o'clock a.m. on Sunday morning. And I think we can see that if we look at our churches. The most segregated place is not our schools, though, unless it's a Catholic school probably, but it's our churches on Sunday mornings. And he also said that the problems between blacks and whites in America is not a societal problem. He said it's a church problem. And I agree with them because the church, we, the body of Christ, have now. come together well to to listen to each other and to pray with each other in the fast for each other and to work with each other to to address some of these these these these these practices and policies that might still be in place that are still in place that perpetuate the vision the church

many when i say the church i mean the members of the body of christ obviously the church in heaven is perfect right the saints are awesome but on earth we the body of christ are broken god still loves us but we are broken and we are messy and many bishops in the church have owned slaves throughout our history in this country. Many religious orders would not accept women who were African-American or had any black drops of blood in their system like Mother Amri de Lil into their communities. Mother Amriette de Lil, she founded the Holy Family Sisters.

She made her vows on the feast of St. Teresa of Avila because there used to be a policy in the Carmelite community in Spain that said, if you have any Moorish blood or Jewish blood, you cannot be a Carmelite sister. And so when she found the Discaused Carmelites, St. Teresa Vavala, it wasn't just for the spiritual renewal it's also because she changed the policy, the written rule that said that

she made the rule that any woman of any bloodline could join my community. So Mother I already Delo had to found her own community and that took years for it to happen because no white orders of nuns would accept her. Father Augustus Tolton was denied access to every seminary in America and even in the 20th century

of Bishop Terry Stive who's from my diocese of Baton Rouge applied to be a diocese and seminarian and was denied access to the seminary because he was black and he had to join a religious community to become a priest and he eventually became a bishop. It's kind of the stone that was rejected

became the cornerstone. But the church has also been very complicit and not trying her best to cultivate unity and to console the heart of Jesus. And so now is an opportunity that you and I have and that we all have as members of the body of Christ

to say, Jesus, we repent for what we haven't done, but now we will come together and we will pray and we will worship together and we will fast together and to work, to build the civilization of love. Well, you talk about, you know, repent for what we have done or what we have not done. It sounds like the mass, doesn't it? You know, in the words of, you know, forgive me for what I've done and what I've failed to do. And, you know, from a white man's experience, and which is the only experience that I can

personally say, this is, you know, this is me, we have a tendency to not. know the history of other people. You know, you take the experience of African-American men and women or, you know, or World War II with the Jews and the Christians, and that the parts of history that the Christians knew about, the Jewish community did not know about and the parts that they emphasized, the Christians were unaware. And it's the same in the African-American community and the white community. United States as well. I imagine that when you talk about we need to walk in forgiveness and we need to

repent, what are specifically are you talking about that you think there needs to be this repentance and awareness that is part of the root of the problem that we're experiencing now? That's a great question. I mean, Jeff, as you know, biblically, there cannot be reconciliation unless there is repentance and reparation in the scriptures. Sometimes we hear these words repentance and reparation and we think they're political words. These are scripture. These are biblical, biblical realities. If you look at someone like Zacchaeus in the New Testament,

whenever he entered into a relationship with Jesus, he not only repented of what he had done, but he said, I need to make it right. I'm going to make it right, and I'm going to pay back what I owe. But in the Bible, we don't just repent of our sins, of our faults, but it's biblical to also repent on behalf of other members of our community in Ezra chapter 9 we read this at the evening sacrifice I rose from my fasting with my garments and my mantle torn I fell up upon my knees and I spread up my hands to the Lord saying my God I am ashamed

and blush to lift my face to you my God for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens from the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt and for our iniquities our kings and our priests have been given to the hand of the kings of the lands to the sword, to captivity, to plunder, and to utter shame at this day. And he went on to say how he began to ask for forgiveness, not just for what he had done or not done for his sins of omission or commission, but he asked for forgiveness for his fathers for what they had done as well. So we repent on behalf of other people. We make up for what's lacking in the body of Christ. And the reality is, is there are members of the body of Christ who have

not repented yet. And so I say, like, on their behalf, and this is what I do as a priest, you know, as a priest. Anytime you come to confession, Jeff, every time you go to confession, and I hear someone's sins, not only do they do a penance, but did you know I also do a penance for them? I take on a penance for their sins that I never committed. Why? Because we're one body. There's only one body of Christ. And what they have done, I'm going to take responsibility for, even though I did nothing of what they confessed. Even as a priest, whenever the sex scandal happened, if you remember that, whenever the sex scandal was brought to the light again. I've never in my life touched a boy or touch a little girl. But guess what? Whenever

that stuff came to light with other priests have done years ago in my diocese, nothing current, but like years ago what other priests had done, guess who took on penances for them? Guess who preached against it? Guess who prayed and fasted and offered up sacrifices? Guess who offered holy hours of reparation? I began to do public penances with my people and speak against it and I called out the bishops what they had not done. And I spoke about the evil of these priests. This is something I've never done personally, but I took it on. And that's what we as Christians must begin to do is even if I didn't do something personally, I'm willing to empty myself and take on your suffering, kind of like Jesus Christ did, whose image and likeness, like we were made and we are

the body of Christ. And so therefore we're called to imitate Christ in everything, not just in the miracles, not just in the teaching or preaching or making disciples. We're called to imitate Christ in suffering and making up for what is lacking in the body. And I think a lot of Christians and Catholics, Catholics who are Christians, have a misunderstanding of what it means to be a disciple. This is really a discipleship issue. Because if we're going to be disciples, then we are going to look forward to picking up these crosses

for the sanctification and for the renewal and restoration of the body of Christ. But so often I think many Catholics look at their Christianity as something to help them to be more healthy and more wealthy and more comfortable. But Christianity is really, really about the cross. And it's about emptying myself for the sake of the body that I am connected to all over the world and also in purgatory as well. And in heaven. We are all connected. We are one body of Christ on earth that it is in heaven. It sounds like there's two, I mean, there's two aspects to this that we're looking at. You know, we're for the, for most people, they're sitting at home in the evening and

they're watching the news preference, you know, their choice, their special news network, whatever it is, and getting their slant on what is going on here and what does the president think and so forth. But you kind of have divided it into two, there's two areas. One is, you know, what do we do as disciples of the Lord? I'm not even going to say as Christians, Catholics, slash whatever, as disciples of Jesus Christ, we are Catholic, but we're disciples of Jesus Christ. What do we do when it comes to repenting? I mean, practically speaking now, repenting of what? while we're repenting of what happened, you know, in generations past. Because this is the big argument, Father, and that is, look, it's a new day, it's a new day,

father. I didn't do anything. I didn't, I didn't, you know, commit any, any sins. I have never done anything. Why are, why is everybody in the African American community treating me like, this is something fresh and I did it? So there's this spiritual aspect of it, but there's also a concrete physical aspect of it in that, you know, that whole story in Acts 10 of Cornelius and Peter. Peter was taught from the time he was a child. Don't have BLT sandwiches. Don't hang around with people who do have BLT sandwiches.

And suddenly God gives him a dream and says, go and talk to Cornelius, this Italian, you know, at Cesarea, Maritima. And Peter says, I'm not going to do this. There's no way that I am going to. to do this. And yet, Peter was challenged by the Lord to go and to make contact. It wasn't just a spiritual thing. It wasn't a CD he listened to. It's not a conference he went to. But he had to get up and he had to go and he didn't want to, but he went. He had unanswered questions, but he went. Was Cornelius House new territory for Peter? Yes, but he went. Do you think

Peter had concerns about what others might say, yes, but he went. And so there's these two aspects, the spiritual, what do we do, practically speaking? And then number two, physically speaking, what do we do with our relationship with people who we have a prejudice against? It simply is prejudging people. And we prejudge people based on their skin, based on their language, where they grew up. Yeah, certainly, yeah. I mean, I would say we get proximate. We get proximate both for the Lord on our knees, but also we get proximate to people as well. The only way that I'm going to be able to see my brother or my sister for who they really are in the eyes of God, the way God sees and the way God knows them, the way God loves them, is if I get close to them. If I get, like,

you know, remember when the apostles received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, what's the first thing they did. This is really important, right, as disciples of Jesus, because, you know, like you said earlier, a president, when a president is elected, we always look at his first few days in office to see the direction he's going to leave the country in. When the Holy Spirit came down upon the apostles, what's the very first thing that happened? The apostles went out, and they went out to people from Africa and Asia and Europe, and they invested in relationships with them, and they listened to their stories, and they heard them speak, and then they shared Jesus with them in a way that was conducive for them to receive

Jesus. So we have all got to get out of our holy huddles, whatever they may look like. We've got to get out of our comfort zones if we're going to be disciples of Jesus Christ. And we've got to get close to people where they're at. As a priest, canonically, I'm responsible as a pastor for every soul

in my geographical boundaries of my parish. Not just for the people who have registered Catholics and come to church here, but for anyone who lives in my geographical boundaries. That's black, that's white, that's Asian, that's Latino, that's male, female that's atheist agnostic Muslim Hindu Jew Protestant you know there's all these different backgrounds I'm responsible for all of them I have to go out and encounter them and actually really

invest in them on their terms to get to know them and then whenever they share with me I think it's important know God gave us two ears in one mouth I always encourage people if you want to put up a practical fast to to really begin to like get to know somebody and invest in a person approximate fast from speaking and actually listen to the person who's talking and believe what they say and then take it to prayer and like apply the steps of lexio devena to what that person said in the conversation read what do they say meditate what did that say to me talk to god about it before the blessed sacrament and the word of god and then sit with the lord and go back to that person and continue the conversation because what we're oftentimes going to hear is we're going to hear

things about what other people are going through that we had no idea and we had no idea that that they might also be oppressed in a way, like by this in society, by a practice or by policy, that we have resources, we have natural gifts, we can use our supernatural carisms that we receive that baptism

to then collaborate with those people to work with them to help to reform any unjust laws that might still be in place that are oppressing them and hurting them and perpetuating the vision between us and them. So that can only happen if I get to know somebody and really care. Let me talk about that for the second. You're talking about getting, you know, getting to know somebody because there have been ideas that are advanced, you know, that, well, you know, we need to do.

We need to get together. So we're going to have a potluck dinner, you know, and we're going to have African American people. And we're going to have white people coming together and we're going to have a dinner and we're going to sing song and have a choir. And things are going to work out really well. And that's not the way. That's not the way it is. And so when we come together, what does that look like? And we're going beyond superficial into really investing ourselves in one another

because that's the only way that change is going to take place is that if we, you know, Jesus didn't come to earth and give us some good ideas. He invested himself into our lives. We had a problem. We're on our way to hell. We have sin. He invested himself. He didn't give us a manual.

Right. So how do we do that? Let's talk about that for a second. Let's call it beyond the potluck dinner. So how did Jesus do it, Jeff? I remember, because we are the body of Christ. It's not what would Jesus do. WWJD is what is Jesus doing in us today.

So what he did yesterday, he wants to do today in us and through us. So yesterday, when he was here 2,000 years ago, he invested in people not just by praying with the apostles who he spent time with every day, but he also went to parties with them. He went to weddings with them. He went on road trips with them. He went on pilgrimages with them. He climbed mountains with them.

He went fishing with them. He literally invested his life with them. There's a story that I often like to share that I think really puts flesh on this of what this could look like. Dr. Christina Cleveland shares this story often. She's a social psychologist. And there was a group of white moms at a school where it was like half white, half Hispanic or half Latino.

And the white mom started an awesome like prayer group, mother's prayer group, where they like pray with each other and read the scriptures and it was beautiful and they invited every mom in the school but literally only the white moms showed up to this and so they ended up hiring dr christina cleveland to come in to do a workshop for them and and she said i tell you what why don't some of y'all the white mothers um go to the the Hispanic church where they go to worship so the five white moms went to the mass with the Hispanic moms for like three or four months or something like that every single weekend with their families they invested they didn't just say we're gonna do this like once, like if you just do a once a year potluck and worship service or you switch pastors

or switch choirs, that's not going to, that's not going to do it. They literally invested their families into these parishes for months. And then from worshiping with them, Acts chapter 2, verse 42, and praying with them, they then ask them the question, like, hey, we want to have fellowship with you. We have this awesome prayer group and we've invited y'all through the school. Why don't y'all want to come? And the Latino mother said, we would love to come to your prayer group, your mother's prayer group, and spend time with y'all. But y'all meet on Thursday mornings at 11 o'clock a.m. And they said, well, why can't y'all come at that time? They said, well, we work at that time. He said, well, so you want to come? Yeah, we would love to come. So what works for

y'all? They said, it's at 11 o'clock p.m. on Thursday nights. They said, great. We'll get a babysitter. Whatever, y'all, we'll host at our place. And they said, look, we can't come to your neighborhood because where we live, it's not safe for us to travel that night. And we also, we don't have public transportation. We take the bus to and from work. And so it would be very difficult for us to come to your neighborhood? They said, well, would one of y'all want to host it? Yeah, we would love to host it at our place. And so 25, like, white mothers began to go to this Bible study in about 20 Latino mothers. And basically, they prayed together. They had fellowship with each other. And then from that, more Latino mothers in this neighborhood said, what's going on at your

your place at night? Where are these cars here? They said, we have this awesome women's prayer group for moms, praying for their kids, reading scripture. They said, can we join too? So women who weren't even having kids at that school joined, and they began to pray with them and have fellowship with them. And then more moms who wanted to join, but they didn't speak English, said, hey, we would love to join too, but we don't speak English. So the white mother said, we will hire a translator so that we can all share hearts together. And eventually, the white mom said, we can also get a tutor during this time and learn your language so we can communicate the gospel to you like the apostles did in Acts chapter two.

in a way that you could understand. And so after they did this for, I guess it went on a couple of years now, they became family. They didn't just meet on Thursday nights for a prayer group. They also began to worship on Sundays, and then they went out to eat and had coffee together and shared meals and shared family life together,

but they also began to do this. They began to share their struggles with each other. They began to see this other person as my sister in Christ now. And they began to hear stories about how there were certain policies in place in their community that were hurting their sisters in Christ. And so they used their resources to help change laws in their community. And now their sisters are like, wow, like you really are investing in me.

You care about me to where you put your pride aside and you cared about me and my family's thriving in the body of Christ. And so I think when we imitate that kind of model and literally invest everything and become like you and I, we are family with each other now. we we don't just see each other once a year at conferences we pray over the phone we share hearts we meet up yearly with each other and we intentionally you sing songs to my daughter i do i see there's a fire starting and your daughter sings it well both all your daughters are beautiful uh but as well your daughter sang at that that the beautiful peaceful protest recently

and so yeah she's she was on the bridge uh jacky and she she i tell you what she was a tiger she got up there. And she just started singing. And I've never, you know, if people want to hear that, you can go to my Instagram page. And I've got a little clip of her singing on there. And I was so proud of her in, in, in doing that. But, but, but listen, you know, what, what you're saying demands of a serious intentionality if we're going to, if we're going to reach out and make people a part of our lives. Now, here's the problem, father, that I see in the hurdle, okay? And that is this. We don't do that with a lot of white people, you know, in the Catholic Church. We don't go way out of our way to invite people into our home.

It's a discipleship problem. Exactly. This is, you know, and so if you say, well, we've got to reach out to people and do this or that. Well, we don't do that with people the way it is in a lot of cases. So this has to become part of our, of our lifestyle. Are you hopeful that change is going to happen? Do you think that the death of George Floyd brings this to a new level nationally? Or is sort of, sort of speak, the jury's still out?

Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest with you. Last week in my prayer, one of the perceptions I had, I've been praying with the agony of the garden a lot lately. I mean, for really for months now. And if you've prayed my rosary racial reconciliation, it's on my podcast. It's available. A lot of people would see that I'm really rooted. in the agony. And I've been there for months. That's where I perceive the Holy Spirit just

draw me during this time. And the prayer meditation that I was investing in recently was of Jesus Christ when he was in the agony. And he was experiencing that sorrow. His apostles were around him, but they were clueless, Jeff. I was talking to a bishop about this, a beautiful African-American bishop, about how just clueless the apostles were. They didn't even like reach out to them and say, Jesus, you seem to be different tonight than you were yesterday. Jesus, you seem to be suffering. You seem to be experiencing something that, what can we do? How can we be with you? How can we accompany you? And so I was, I began to pray that because I've felt for years now, I've been speaking about racial reconciliation for years. I've been ordained for seven

years now, and I've been speaking about it, especially on the institutional level for at least five years publicly in writing about it. There's a book I'm working on that you're going to write the forward to. I'm so grateful for, but this is something I've been working on for years. It's on record now. It's been on the back burner of especially in the Catholic Church for many of our of our circles. We don't talk about it a lot. And so I felt like when I was praying with it, like Jesus, when are my Catholic brothers and sisters who I know love me and who I know love the Lord Jesus Christ and are rooted in the Eucharist and have a special relationship with our blessed mother? What are they going to begin to console you and your body of Christ today, Jesus? Because 2,000 years ago,

you were not consoled by your apostles in the garden. And that led me to begin to just pray and intercede for this very thing. Like, Jesus, please let this be the time for it to happen. And to my surprise, by Saturday, a bunch of Catholic voices who have, for many of them, never publicly spoken out against not only racial prejudice or racial discrimination, but institutional racism that's rooted in those practices and policies that are still around today. in Louisiana and the United States of America have been, they began to intentionally speak out and pray and fast

and it's been consoling in my heart. So I believe that the Holy Spirit, this Pentecost, for Pentecost to have taken place a week after the death of our brother, this member of the body of Jesus Christ, George Floyd, for Pentecost to be this Sunday, I believe the Holy Spirit is pouring forth a special anointing on all of us, on every member of the body of Christ, white and black and indigenous peoples and Latinos,

and agents, every member has been receiving a special anointing to really begin to lean into intentional relationship with Jesus first in prayer, and then with each other, with each other so that we can do works and we can get to action that will bring about renewal restoration and justice in our policies. Maybe Pentecost, you know, is going to play a major role because when you look at Acts chapter 10 and you have Peter meeting Cornelius, he, Cornelius, he, Cornelius, you know, came to the Lord. Cornelius came to the Lord at the hands of Peter. And Peter testifies to this over and over.

And he says, look, the Holy Spirit was poured out. This man's life changed. Who am I to get in the way here? And so it was a work of the Holy Spirit, reconciliation. And we as Catholics, white, black, whatever, we are ministers of reconciliation. Yes. Yes. And that's not, and this is the point. I want to make, my father, is that these are not just doctrines and teachings. This is a way of

life. And if other people's backgrounds or their differences are going to be the reason that we stay away, then we, of all people, are in need of tremendous help because Jesus didn't stay away from us, he came to us in our sin. He came to us in all that was wrong in our lives, not to say that there's anything wrong with other people, but there's that very famous saying, you know, the distance between people amplifies difference. Yes. And I cannot see this happening without the power of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we need him. The love of God. And for us to take a step out of the boat, Like we have never taken before because I can tell you this. And I think you agree when I say this, when this particular broadcast is over, and this is one of

thousands of different efforts to get people's attention, I guess, if we simply believe what we believed coming into this show, nothing's going to change. If we just leave the show saying, I believe that. Good for you. But what are we going to do? What are we going to do about it? as we take our next steps. And Jeff, when I was in prayer before the Blessed Sacrament this week, a prayer,

I'm going to say I perceive the Holy Spirit share with me because I'm not infallible, but I perceive the Holy Spirit infuse a prayer to me to share with the church today, which is, and it's called the litany of the body of Christ. And it's basically where we insert someone, you know, when you're in school, you write lines over and over again. It's where we write lines over and over again, and we say, like, insert, you would say George Floyd is the body of Christ. George Floyd is the body of Christ

over and over and over again I would say that for you Jeff Kavis is the body of Christ is the body of Christ because the reality is this Jeff is the Lord reveals us in the word of God. How can we say we love a God who we cannot see we do not love our brothers and sisters who we can see

and when it comes to Jesus Christ it's all of Jesus or none of Jesus. So I can't have a spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ or a compartmentalized relationship with Jesus Christ and say I'm only going to abide with black disciples or I'm only going to abide with white disciples. If I reject any member of the body of Jesus Christ, I am rejecting Jesus Christ. And if I reject Jesus Christ on earth, I am rejecting my opportunity to abide in relationship with Jesus Christ forever in the kingdom of heaven.

I know that this conversation that we're having right now certainly isn't going to solve all the problems in the world, but there are some questions that we can provide some answers for and some direction that we need to go. And I would offer this, and we'd have so many good questions here. I'm looking at some questions I'm going to give you a father. But if you're not sure of what to do in your parish and you're seriously concerned about this and you're thinking about it, well, my friend, you may be the one that stands up and does something different about it.

And I know that's true with my daughter, both of my daughters have, my younger daughter went to a rally last night. The middle daughter went to a number of rallies in Minneapolis. They're standing up and they're doing something, saying something. And it might be you. You might be the one in your parish that says, we have to do something. We have to repent. We have to be a part of one another's lives. Father, should we take some questions? I've got a number of questions here. And let's kind of rapid fire through these. Let's see. We got, Father Johnson, have you ever been pulled over for driving while black? Yeah, that's a good question.

So I've never been pulled over for driving while black, but I have been harassed. So, again, I want to preface this by saying my father was the captain of the Baton Rouge Police Department. My father was shot in the head, point blank. And I know what it's like to be a kid growing up with a father who was a cop. And there were times where he had to work late at night. I didn't know if he was coming home or not.

And I lived in fear as a kid. Like, is my dad going to get shot in the head again? he survived that, by the way, by the grace of God, but I always lived in this fear. Is Dad going to get shot today? And I, as a priest, have collaborated with the law enforcement and the Department of Justice. And however, I would say this. I've been harassed by members of the law enforcement. And on one occasion, I remember a member of the law enforcement literally, like, harassed me the entire time I was in a store. And he was on my tail and he would not, like he, and he was just so rude to me. And it was a painful experience, you know,

and I'm just grateful that I didn't respond in a way that could have resulted in me being on someone's t-shirt, you know. So I have experienced that as well as other people in the body of Christ, Bishop Edward Braxton. He was the bishop of Belva, Illinois. I think there's a new guy taking over soon. He might have just retired, but he writes in many pastoral letters on racism. He's an African-American bishop who writes about the times in his pre-suit and episcopacy as a bishop. not as a young man, as an older man, being pulled over while driving while black. So this does happen quite often.

And this is like where we can come together as a church to say like whenever people are harassed, whenever people are harassed and followed and pulled over, then there needs to be some kind of something to take place where we can hold those members of the law enforcement accountable. If they have a record of doing this, there should be a way that we could get them fired from being members of law enforcement. Because Derek Chauvin, who killed George Floyd, or as I like to call it George Floyd, the body of Christ, the body of Jesus Christ, was killed last Monday in George Floyd. Derek Chauvin had a record. He had a history, he had a history of time and time again crossing boundaries, crossing the lines, and being written up and nothing happened. And so there needs to be, we should be able to write new laws in place that will affect and hold our brothers and sisters in law enforcement accountable for, for,

whenever they do overstep their boundaries and hurt other members of the body of Christ on earth. So, yeah, so it happened, yeah. Here's a good question. We've got a number of good questions here. Besides the Holy Spirit, are there any saints whose intercession you would recommend for healing racial divisions? Yeah, one of my favorites is St. John Paul II.

St. John Paul II, you and I, we visited him in Poland, and he's very close to my heart. He's my spiritual father to me. St. John Paul II. He came to New Orleans a number of years ago, and I always think it's important whenever a saint visits a place like where we're at that we should always read what they said when they visited. And one of the things that he spoke about when he came to New Orleans, Louisiana in 1987, is he spoke against racism. And he spoke against, and he called the Catholics in New Orleans, the archdiocese, to come together to fight against, he said this persistent sin, the original sin, the sin of racism. And I remember one time when he was speaking about racism, a broadcaster on a Catholic news station, he came out and said, he said, how messed up is it that John Paul II has people

lying to him about our country? Like, we don't have a race problem in our country. And I'm like, this is the Holy Father. So St. John Paul II is one, venerable Augustus Tolton. He's the first black priest in our nation. He's also another saint who experienced discrimination, prejudice, and practices in policies, and institutional racism. and he still persevered, and he is on his way to become a saint.

Mother Henri de Lille, the founder of the Holy Family Sisters, is another one. And then St. Martin DePoris, he is a biracial saint, and he's also the saint specifically for racial harmony. And I like to throw in St. Teresa of Avala, because St. Teresa of Avala didn't just say we should come together and sing kumbaya and have personal hearts and minds that are transformed. While we should have our hearts and minds transformed by the love of Jesus Christ through the sacraments of life of the Catholic Church and the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit,

She also addressed the policy of the Carmelite community and changed a policy that was discriminating against women who had Moorish and Jewish blood. So I think that she's also another patron for fighting against racism and cultivating unity in the body of Jesus Christ. I got a, you know, this next question kind of comes close to home. My young, you know, my youngest daughter, she is African American. and when she first got her license, there were a number of people being pulled over of African-American youngsters. And one night she got pulled over and so frightened her

that the first thing she said was out of fear is that to the officers, my parents are white. And that said something that cut my heart really, really deep to think that my own daughter was living in fear because of the color that she was. And one of the questions that comes up in these questions, a number of them, is that as an African-American young person, what do I say to my white friends who think that the uprising, the unjust rioting, the looting, the burning has maybe something to do with me or I might do that? I don't even know. I think

that we really need to invite our community our brothers and sisters to listen and not just to us specifically but to listen to like listen to like the reality of the history of her nation you know like to

if you've got to kind of school Jeff if you've you've probably not received a history that was written by anybody other than Europeans are people who are white and theology was probably from all white theologians except for St. Augustine of Africa. And your philosophy was probably from the majority of white philosophers, and your teachers

were probably all white, and your classmates were probably all white, majority of white, if you went to a Catholic school, in most Catholic schools. And so all they hear is from a one, one perspective. And there's another perspective, like there are this black literature, and there's a real history that's raw and that's real about what really happened during slavery and Jim Crow. What really happens today, I tell my friends that you know that there are country clubs still in America today, country clubs that do not allow black people to become members. Today, Archbishop Hughes of New Orleans in the 2000s, he found out about this because black Catholics were hurt

because their parishers were hosting events at the Mettery Country Club in New Orleans, which at that time did not allow black people to be members. So when Archbishop Hughes heard about this, he wrote a pastor or letter against racism. And when his letter came out, guess what happened? The country club changed that practice. It began to let black members.

How do people get a hold of that? It's just look up. Uh-huh. Hues passed a letter against racism. Does you know that there are still fraternities and sororities that do not allow black people to be members on our college campuses? Like, so we can be friends and we can go to Bible study together. But if you then join that fraternity that you know I can't be a member of, like the KAs and many of colleges across the nation, that's going to hurt me. And it's say, like, why are you joining a fraternity that still to the stay as a practice?

It's not a written rule. It's a practice. And that's how they get away with it because they say, we have no rules. but if you look at them, they do not permit black people to be members. Did you know that there are still handbook policies in some of our Catholic schools that have written rules that say you can't have braids? Who's that going to affect? It's going to affect the African-American young women that go to those schools.

They say, if you want to come to our school, you have to perm your hair and look European to come here and potentially damage your hair as opposed to braiding it, which is what you've always done throughout the history of being African-American, right, as an option. And they punish these girls for having brazen their hair. And they get suspended and expelled. There are so many things that are happening right now. This isn't something of yesterday where it's like, you know, this is Jim Crow. I mean today, there's so many things that I just invite people.

If you don't, I don't want you just to listen to me because that can be taxing for people just to come to one person for that one black friend. But to go do research, to watch the documentary of the 13th, and to read books. And I'm not saying you're going to agree with everything. the documentary to read the 13th, or if you read the book New Jim Crow, you're going to agree with everything in it, because I don't. But they give historical facts that open our eyes to the reality of things that we aren't not going to learn in many of our Catholic schools. We're just not going to learn. Maybe what we can provide it on the show notes is maybe a couple of resources that people can to get and to look into it. You know, when you talked earlier about doing

penance. And one person asks, how do you do penance for another person? The same way you do penance for yourself. You take on a fast. You take on an extra rosary. You take on extra prayers. The divine mercy chapter. The rosary is, I think, one of the most powerful prayers we can pray because the devil hates the rosary. Every time Blessed Mother appears in an apparition, Jeff, what prayer does she ask us to recite? The rosary. The rosary over and over again. And the devil, I was speaking with an exorcist who said, like, the devil, like, he even, whenever during exorcisms, sometimes the demons speak.

And they say when they cannot stand married, the power of the rosary, it cripples them. And so I encourage people to take on extra rosaries on your knees if you can do that, take on a fast. And then also try to make things right. Try to repair some of the damage that were done by, like, reaching out to, especially if you're like, if you're in a Catholic school system, reach out and ask the school system, like what's your curriculum? How about we put in a black Catholic history curriculum as well? There's one out there. It's a beautiful black Catholic history curriculum that was written by

a beautiful white disciple of Jesus Christ to try to make things right for the church today by saying like, what's our artwork look like in our churches and our schools? Our artwork in our churches represent the entire body of Christ are only one member of the body of Christ. That's a good point. And I know that you are really big on art and looking into art in parishes. And to be honest, I have three daughters, two are African-American. And I've heard it growing up, walking into a church and looking at the artwork and the statues and asking the question, do I belong here? This doesn't seem to be me. What do we say to the hundreds and thousands of Catholic churches around the country in the suburbs and other places that when you walk in,

there is no evidence of me when I walk in? Say, add it. We add it. You know, like, I was I went to speak at a school one time, and I noticed that Jesus was white and Mary was white and St. Joseph was white, St. Michael was white, blonde hair, blue eyes. And the only brown person that was representing in Chapel was Satan. It looked like a black man. And then I walked through the halls and I saw all these white statues everywhere. And I said, this school is a very diverse school. I said, what do you think that does for the black and brown students who come here? Like my father, who is Methodist, we went to a gift shop one time at a shrine. And we walked in the gift shop and I saw this huge. image, and I have a devotion to St. Michael, I believe in spiritual warfare. I believe what we're going through is spiritual warfare. It's a demonic stronghold on our nation. And there's a big statue of St. Michael, blind hair, blue-eyed, and he was stepping on a man who looked like he could have been me. And when I saw it, I said, I pray my dad doesn't see that statue. I tried to walk my dad the other direction. And he saw it and he said, Josh, son, that is not right. That is not right. I've heard black and brown people tell me when they've gone to churches and seen

these statues that it's literally hurt them and they felt the pain. Imagine, Jeff, if we painted all the St. Michael statues in our churches as a black man, St. Michael as a black man and the devil as a white man with blind hair and blue eyes, you would notice that. You'd be like, whoa, that's not right. There's saint in heaven. When John saw a vision of heaven in the book of Revelation, he said, I see people of every race nation in tongue. Every race nation in tongue. So our churches should look like heaven.

Because what's going to happen is, even if your church is predominantly white, the people who live in the geographical boundaries might not. be. And we are responsible for inviting them in. If they come to our churches and if they don't see a St. Josephine Bakita or a black or brown Jesus or a St. Martin de Porras or a St. Moses the Black or St. Augustine the African, if they don't see anyone that looks like them, they're going to come up with a presumption to say, maybe the Catholic Church thinks that everything that is white is holy and everything that is dark is unholy. And it's not that difficult, Jeff, to add paintings in your church to get stained glass put in there and to repaint those St. Michael statues

that have Satan looking like a black or brown person. Paint them a color as non-human. Why does he have to say it? It's not that difficult to get some paint. I'll come and do it for you. What happens to Jeff is this is our artwork is either going to be a bridge to draw people to the sacramental life of the Catholic Church. And if we really believe that the Eucharist is the source of someone of salvation and that if we eat the bread of life and drink of the blood of Christ, we would have eternal life, then we should be willing to do anything and everything to draw people into the sacramus. If there's anything like an icon, there's anything of an icon that becomes an idol that becomes

a barrier for people, then as a pastor, I would say it's not that important. I will add some, like, for this to be a bridge for me and you, I'm going to add the paintings and I'm going to repaint this statue because I'm not attached to this color of Satan being brown. I'm not attached to Jesus always being depicted as a white man, blonde hair, blue eyes. eyes. Like, in my, in my chapel, in my rectory, I have a white St. Joseph with a brown Jesus and a brown Mary. Like, my mom, my dad's black, mom's white. I'm mixed. Right. So I want to look like me. But, but reality is like there's no, what's the problem with that? You know, I had a, real quick, one last thing. I had a family come by and visiting me recently, an African-American

Catholic family. And the daughter said, she saw, I have a black image of Jesus Christ, the sorrowful Jesus Christ. And she saw that and she said, that's not Jesus. She said, Jesus is white. Because that's all she's seen in our church. That's black Jesus. No, that's Jesus. It's just Jesus. It's not black Jesus. It's just Jesus. White Jesus isn't white Jesus. It's just Jesus. And so we need to be able to have diverse images of holiness in our churches and our schools. One last story. In my chancery in the Diocese of Baton Rouge, in our chancery, we had a big mural painting of a Catholic priest from New Rose, Louisiana, who owns slaves, who was blessing a Confederate flag. It's a true image. And it was a historical image, which I'm all about history,

put it in a museum. But what happened is, is from the time I was a seminarian, I would walk by that painting to go to the vocations office, and I would see it. And I was saying, why are we having this image of this priest blessing a rebel flag? This priest who owns slaves, blessing a rebel flag, that pushes me away from wanting to come around here. And so finally, whenever I was a priest and Alton Sterling was shot, the bishop invited me to sit at the table with them to begin to discuss what we can do to heal the racial divide. And so the bishop, the first thing we could do is is put that painting in a museum.

And where we can write about the history of that painting and the history of that priest and why it was wrong, and replace that painting with beautiful images of holiness of Jesus and Mary and Joseph and the angels and the diverse group of saints who are in heaven and who desire to be in a relationship with us on earth. And what happened? He removed it. He removed it.

Well, you know, what you're saying, Father, is that we have to be, something. And I think we're both in agreement here that we cannot sit back and talk about it. We cannot talk about, quote, unquote, theology in what we should believe. But faith is twofold. One is mental assent. Yes, I agree with this, that we are one body, that I need to be willing to lay my life down and so forth. But there's also the other aspect of faith. One is mental assent. The other is personal in trusting. And we, you know, God revealed himself in words and deeds.

We respond in words in deeds. And it's so interesting that Jesus said they will know, you know, they will know that you are my disciples by what? By your love for one another. And there is, this started, you know, this whole thing of the racial divide and what happened in Minneapolis didn't start in Minneapolis. It started a long time ago, as you said, but also the way we relate to people didn't just start yesterday. But even in high school, what do we do? We find people like ourselves and we relax and we take the ride, you know? I want to find people who believe like I do, look like I do, that are interested in these things. And that's called life. And in the body of

Christ, it simply is not that way. We have to, we have to step out of the boat. We have to say something Yeah, we have to call things for what they are. For example, one man, I'll never forget him, a real mentor of mine, Dr. Marvin Wilson from Gordon College in Gordon in Winham, Massachusetts, he said that anytime he was in a group and there were Jewish friends with him, if anybody made any kind of comment about the Jewish friends in a derogatory way, in a pejorative manner, he would verbally say, I have to disassociate myself from that remark. Comment on it. I mean, is that something that we need to do is to say, I'm not going to be complicit by being silent here. Yeah, yeah.

And I'm also going to have to say, like, if you continue to talk that way about people made in the image of God, image bearers of God for our Jewish brothers and sisters and members of the body of Christ for our baptized brothers and sisters, if you continue to use the N-word or call people, wet backs, our anger babies, our thugs, our hood rest. If you continue to do that in my midst, I can't be around you right now. I'm going to have to separate myself. I'll pray for you and I will fast for you, but I'm not going to continue to allow you to abuse the body of Jesus Christ that

way, as well as if I, if I see even someone a public figure say things that are degrading to the body of Christ or to our other image bearers of God, then I will unfollow you on social media and I would not purchase your books. And I would tell you why. And I would not go to the conference you to speak at. And I would tell you why so that I can give you an opportunity to change your life. And I will promise to pray for you and to fast for you and to love you from a distance. But sometimes we have to fraternity to correct our brothers and sisters so that they can realize what I'm saying and doing really is wrong.

And it's not okay. And what I'm participating and what I'm supporting really is not good. And so I really do need to speak up for the body of Jesus Christ. Jesus is going to say to me on my on the day I go to on the day I die he's going to say why didn't you speak up for me when they called me the N word why didn't you why don't you why don't you disassociate yourself from that country club that would not allow black people to be members why why why and the well when I did that with you Jesus when whenever you did did on earth why he's going to point it to us and so we really would be held responsible by our Lord Jesus Christ who loves

us and who desires for us to become saints for our sins of commission and also omission of what I did not do there's got to be a father. a lot of people reaching out to you right now with everything that's going on, particularly I would think priests are interested and what does Father Josh think? Deacons want to know. What does Father Josh think? D.R.E. want to know what Father Josh

thinks. Perhaps bishops want to know. What does Father Josh think? What would you say? How would you address this? What is a quick word to leadership, people who are standing in the pulpit week after week now? And it might be virtual, but they're in the pulpit. Yeah. I guess I would say, like, first of all,

lean into Jesus Christ. lean into the person of Jesus so that we can begin to think with his mind and fill with his heart and act with his body and imitate Jesus Christ who abides in you by virtue of your baptism and confirmation and for you who are ordained your ordination, God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit abides in you and imitate the Lord and go out to all members of the body of Christ in your community, all people, all everyone, image bearers in your community, and listen to them. Fast from speaking and listen to the people. It's like in a marriage,

you have to listen to the bride before you can know how to love her well. Listen to the people in your community, believe their stories, and ask them, ask the people in your community, how can I accompany you?

How can I walk with you toward eternity? How can I pray with you, fast for you, and collaborate with you? Are there any practices that you are aware of, those unwritten rules, are there any policies that you are aware of that I can use my resources,

is to help to change so that they cannot continue to corrupt beautiful hearts and cause prejudice and discrimination and division. How can we work together? But you have to start with Jesus. If you're not intentionally leaning into your relationship with Jesus Christ right now and praying every day and fasting already, I think it's going to be very difficult. I'll end with this. I don't know if I'm ending with this.

I know where we're at, but I would say this, Mother Teresa years ago said to her sisters, the missioners of charity sisters who are beautiful and do amazing work for the poorest of the poor all over the world. She said to them, I'm worried about some of you. I'm worried that some of you, after all these years of working with the poor, some of you still don't know Jesus, that you haven't seen with your own eyes the way that Jesus Christ looks at you, and you've not heard with your own ears, the words that love that Jesus Christ speaks to you. And I say to bishops right now, the bishops in our country, I say to priests and religious sisters and deacons and religious in seminarians, in married couples,

and single disciples of Jesus Christ, I say to you, I'm worried about some of you, that some of you still have not seen with your own eyes the way that Jesus Christ looks at you, and you've not heard with your own ears, the words that Jesus Christ speaks to you. Because I guarantee you, Jeff, if we really begin to see the way that God looks at us

with love, unconditional love, if we begin to hear the words that he speaks to us, then we will be able to see each other, the way he sees us and the way he sees them and we will begin to speak to each other and think about each other and react to each other's pains and sufferings and work with each other the way that he does with us. But if we're not doing this first, receiving this first, then I think it's going to be very difficult for us to be inspired to go out and share that with others because we can't give what we don't have. Yeah. Well, Father, I so appreciate the time that we've been

able to spend together here and just barely addressing this issue. I mean, there's so much more and perhaps we'll have another opportunity in the future. But you said something earlier that I think is so important, and that is, you know, that we need to address this issue as being disciples of the Lord. And the truth of the matter is, and I know you believe this, and I know you live it. And that is that I don't have a personal relationship with theology. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I, I, I, I, how many people, hang out people and all they talk about is philosophy or theology or their ministry.

And I'm like, it sounds like you have a personal relationship with your job or your ministry or this philosophy. I want to hear about Jesus. Talk about Jesus. Tell me about your interior life. That's what I want to hear about. Do we know, I know. I'm in total agreement with you.

When you and I get together in Louisiana, we're, we're a little dangerous with the crawfish and witnessing. With the tattoos, the tattoo ministry, like, tell him about your tattoo. Yeah, but people might not understand. You and I are actually very serious about this. We do have a tattoo ministry. And when we go out to eat and someone's wearing a tattoo, it doesn't matter, we ask them questions. Hey, that's a tattoo.

You're obvious. Your ability to perceive the obvious would amaze the most casual observer. Yes, that is a tattoo. Well, tell me about that tattoo. And people will tell you, won't they? They will open it up. up. Hey, before we go, anything else that you want to address or say, and that in five minutes from now, you're going to say, I wish I would have billed in the blank.

No, honestly, I don't know. I think I would encourage all of us to pray for each other and fast for each other. And again, the litany of the body of Christ, I think, and I also want encourage you to pray my prayer, the rosier for racial reconciliation consistently and intentionally. Where did they get it? It's on the Ask Father Josh podcast. Okay. And then also the litany of the body of Christ. Please pray that and pray for me fast for me because this is a spiritual warfare. I'll say this. There's a demonic stronghold. I believe that each and every single one of us, we all have a guardian angel, Jeff, who prays for us and fights for us. I believe there are also demons that attack us and that they're generational demons that attack our families. I believe our nation has a demon over our nation. And so this is not something that it's just of this world. It's supernatural. And so you better believe that Satan hates us. And he hates the fact that we're bringing to the light ways that the body of Christ can eradicate his stronghold that he has over our nation. And so please pray and fast for me and for Jeff and for each other as you say yes to Jesus to participating in this work for healing the racial divide and working towards racial justice and reconciliation in the body of Christ because we're going to be attacked.

But God is stronger. And so pray with the scriptures, execute the word of God and stay close to the sacraments, to the blessed sacrament. to the Eucharist and to each other, to each other as well. Amen, and I want to recommend your book, Broken and Blessed, an invitation to my generation, your generation. You offer tremendous advice and guidance and direction to your generation when it comes to the fact that we are broken, and we are. We're broken and blessed, and that comes to this topic.

You know, that comes to the issue of George Floyd, what happened in Minneapolis and is happening around the world. It's happening because we are. broken. God does not leave us in our brokenness. He does not leave us. We can't leave each other. Like if God wants and how can I leave my brother,

my sister, who is broken, who's a sinner, who's not repented, like I need you to survive. I cannot say to the hand. I don't need you. I cannot say to the foot. We all need each other whether or not we have or are are guilty of anything, we need each other. So please brothers and sisters,

lean into the word of God and believe scriptures. And also the one to help you at prayer, is the pocket guide of adoration. And Jeff, I would want to plug in your book to activate a disciple because that's a very practical tool to help our brothers and sisters become disciples of Jesus Christ. And, of course, the most important book of all

is the Bible. I call the Jeff Kippon. I don't know about that. But I would say about Scripture, you want to know the mind of God, you want to know his deeds, you want to become a disciple. You've got to be saturated in his word

or the way I like to put it is get into the Word of God and marinate. marinate for a while and take on the mind of Christ and the work of Christ. And that truly is, I believe, the answer to everything that we're facing, Father, is that, man, this is not going to be solved with just understanding theology. It is going to be solved by getting up off of our seat and living it. Come Holy Spirit.

Hey, will you close out in prayer for us? Oh, praise the Lord Jesus. Let's pray and ask for our blessed mother and St. Joseph. intercession as we pray in the name of the Father and the Son of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Blessed Mother, we love you and we just want to entrust this conversation in every single person who is going to listen to this conversation and pray with it, who might be experiencing their own stuff in their hearts, their fragility, our shame, our guilt, like Blessed Mother, we want to entrust everyone to you because you are the most perfect disciple of Jesus Christ

and we entrust us to your most immaculate heart of Mary. Blessed Mother, wrap us in your mantle of love and protection and pray for us. Pray for us sinners that we can become saints and that we can become disciples of Jesus Christ who think with his mind and feel with his heart and act with his body. St. Joseph's terror of demons surround us with your cloak, St. Michael, the archangel, guard us with your shield so that we can all become the saints that you desire for us to be in our communal walk toward eternity. The Lord be with you. May Almighty God bless you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Go in peace. Hey, Father, thank you. Thank you so much. And my friends, as we conclude, I encourage you share this show with people who need to hear it right now, who have questions. Get Father Josh's book and look forward to more in the future on this topic from Father Josh. God has, I believe, put him on the scene for such a time as this. And let's be known as people who are doers of the word and not hears only. Let's transform the world by the power of the Holy Spirit.

exactly. Jesus is living inside of us. He has work to do. He has people to love. He has relationships to heal. Let's be about it, not just believe it, but be about it. So thank you so much for joining us this evening. And stay tuned for other programs from Ascension Presents, a podcast and opportunities to grow in your faith, not to be entertained, but to grow in your faith, marking order to walk like bright. Have a great night. God bless. Thank you.