The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Everyone Needs a Papa- The Biblical Basis for the Papacy

Episode Date: March 9, 2018

Did Catholics make up the papacy? Some people sure think so. In today’s episode, Jeff shows how it’s not Catholics who created the papacy, but God himself. Learn how the Old Testament contains a hidden blueprint for the role of the pope—a blueprint that Jesus Christ follows when he says to Peter, “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matthew 16:18).

You're listening to The Jeff Kaven Show. Episode 55, Everyone Needs a Papa, the scriptural basis for the papacy. Hey, welcome to the show again. Glad you could join me this week as we talk about really all things discipleship and walking with Christ. Very, very important details of prayer and scripture study and looking for opportunities to share Christ with other people. I hope you're doing well. I really do. At the time of this particular broadcast, where we are kind of coming towards the end of winter and looking forward to spring and, of course, summer. And it's in the middle of

lent and I hope you're having a good lent I'm not sure what you gave up or where your heart is at in that but I hope that it is fruitful and that you are making progress with your your walk with the Lord just a reminder just keep going keep going and spend this these 40 days seeking God and really looking at your own life and learning and making the the changes that need to be made heard a really good quote this last week and I want to share it with you it was Monsignor Shea, and he's out in Mary, St. Mary's University in Bismarck, and youngest president of a university that I'm aware of, at least, and he gave a great homily for Dr. Don Briel, who was heading up the Catholic Studies program at St. Thomas

in St. Paul, and he passed away just recently. And in that homily, Monsignor Shea had quoted Don Briel in a beautiful quote that has really, it really impacted me. And I thought it would be good to share with you. And he said that Don would often say, are you going to become a student of your life, or are you going to continually be a victim? And I think that's really a good, a really good quote, a good thing to think about. Are you going to be a student of your life? other words, are you going to learn from your life? Are you going to learn from mistakes and learn from victories and learn from other people and then make the necessary changes? Or are you just

going to be a victim for the rest of your life? I hope not. I hope we can learn from our life and the mistakes that we make. And we all make mistakes, don't we? We all do. But do we learn from them and do we make the correction mid-path, you know, and go the right way? So I'm praying for you and praying that you will continue to walk as that strong disciple of Jesus Christ. Just a quick reminder, it's not enough to just listen. It's not enough to just read the Bible and to listen to radio and watch television and so forth. We really do have to put this stuff into practice, and we really do have to act like disciples on a daily basis. And that means we study God's word. We read the word every day. My wife and I, we read the word every day. My wife and I, we read the word

every morning with each other. But I would also recommend that you have a time of Lexio-Devina, that you have an opportunity to talk with God on a daily basis. And I have some podcasts. I have some shows earlier. You can look through and see some of the shows where I spoke about Lexio-Divina, getting a fresh word from God every single day. We do need that time of prayer.

Discipleship is about relationship. It is not about knowledge. It's about relationship. It's about knowing his heart and mind and then doing what he does. It's about imitating him on a daily basis, him being Jesus Christ, the king of the universe. And that's really what it all comes down to, doesn't it? You know, as I turn on the news and I see the daily war between Fox and CNN and all the other things going on in the world, I'm reminded that we have to cut through all this and really focus on what's important in a

our lives. I've had a couple of really great weeks recently. My wife and I just got back from Gulfport, Mississippi. Want to say a great thanks to Father Ryan in Gulfport, Mississippi. You are doing an incredible job there. Great foundation laid by Father Mark Roppel, who was in Gulfport and is now in Hattiesburg at St. Thomas there at Southern Miss. And he is doing just an incredible job, too. And I spoke in Gulfport, then went up to Hattiesburg. and in Hattiesburg. It was one of those trips where Emily went with me and we had just a great, great time. Went to a good friend, Sean, his house, and had a crawfish boil, which we don't do a lot of those up in Minnesota, to be honest with you, especially as I'm looking

out in the cabin right now in the woods and the log cabin, and I see about two feet of snow on the ground that we came back to. But we had a crawfish boil. We also went motorcycle riding with some guys on Saturday morning before I did the seminar on walking toward eternity. That was fun. I mean, a bunch of guys got together, and we rode for a couple of hours and just good fellowship. And I also met with the Focus Missionaries. There's four of them down there, I think four, maybe five, four of them that I remember that they're doing an incredible job down there at Southern Miss.

The school where the great Brett Farve was quarterback. Indiana down there in Hattiesburg. And I got to say, these focus missionaries are just doing a great job on Southern Miss. And that's where we met with the conference and had a good turnout and met some really nice people, the Hemet family, Dr. Hemet and his wonderful family. And just to hear the good work that everybody is doing down there was very, very encouraging. And I was also in Tampa at a men's conference recently. And we're going down to Baton Rouge.

We're going to be doing a conference down there in Baton Rouge. So we kind of feel like snowbirds right now from Minnesota. We keep going down south, you know, in the winter. And I'm afraid my wife is getting a little addicted to this, so pray for us. Just kidding. Hey, I enjoy your email, and many of you have said, I pose the question, would you like me to simply email you the show notes every week? And many of you, most of you said, yeah, I would really like them.

And so if you would, give me a shout out here, and we're about to pull the trigger on this, sort of speak, and I think we might be doing it. But I need to hear one more week from you. If you would like me to send you the show notes, will you do me a favor? Will you email me? And my email is The Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. I'll say it again. That's The Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. And you can also go to iTunes.

You can go to the Google Music Play. store and leave your notes, leave notes, leave comments that really does help with the show. Hey, I'm going to be talking today about a topic that is, it's really a foundational topic. So many times people ask me, what's the scriptural foundation for the papacy? And that's a good question. Anything that we build our lives on, I think we need to find scriptural foundations for it. And certainly with the papacy, there is no shortage at all. And when it comes to the papacy, this is not something that we fight about, you know.

That's not my goal here is some kind of apologetic war. I'm not into that, to be honest with you. I'm just going to tell you what the Bible says and what the church has consistently said from the very beginning. But I want to focus on this show about the scriptural basis, So at least to give you two, three, four points that you could take with you if you were entering a conversation with somebody else concerning the papacy. So I'm going to go deep into Matthew 16, which is really the, I'll build my church upon the rock text, and we're going to look at that. And I was just in Cessaria Philippi where that took place just a few weeks ago in Israel. In fact, if you want to go to Israel with me, I go every January.

You can go to my website, jeffcavens.com, look up the tab, pilgrimages, and we're already starting to gain a lot of interest for next year. So when it opens up in a couple weeks, get on there quick, get your deposit in. I think it's only $300. Get your name in there and your place secured because we sell out every year. We just have an incredible pilgrimage to the Holy Land. And we hardly even tell anyone about it because the people that went before start telling everybody else. and before you know it we're inundated which is a good thing yay thank you appreciate that well there's

been 266 popes Pope Francis is the 266 Pope and that's a lot of popes and there has been this chain of popes from peter on that has been a very big gift to the church but the question is is it biblical is the papacy biblical or is it something that catholics made up as a way to control people is a way to just get across their views. Well, no, they haven't. It is scriptural. It is based in the Old Testament, fulfilled in the New Testament.

We want to take a look at that. You know, when all this said and done and all the various doctrines discussed among Christians and debated, the real question is, by what authority do you speak? By what authority do men speak? And if we can identify the authority

and the voice of Christ, In the modern world today, all other issues will be settled as our faith will rest on the certitude of Christ's delegated authority. That is really important. That's what we're looking for when we study the papacy. We're looking for Christ's delegated authority. I don't care for the most part. What a lot of people have to say on television and other places, I want to know what Christ's delegated authority has to say about issues, teaching, doctrine.

theology and all of that, world issues and things. Now, every person who goes by the name Christian does have a source of authority in which they determine what they'll believe in practice. And although they would contend that the Bible is the source of truth, the Bible does not come with a separate set of instructions. A book in and of itself can't define itself any more than the Constitution of the United States can define itself. Some would call this in theological circles the perspicuities nature of scripture. It explains itself. And it doesn't in all situations.

A human agent is needed, just like the Constitution. And for the Protestant Christian, the authority may be a popular television evangelist, an author, a schoolteacher, or even themselves. Now, throughout salvation history, God has always established his authority among his people. When his authority cannot be identified, what happens? chaos breaks out, leaving people with a sense of uncertainty. And as the good shepherd, Jesus, he established his kingdom and he left us with organized leadership. Praise God. Organized leadership for the purpose of passing on all that he taught and equipping us to lead the life. We were

meant to live as children of God. Now, I want to share with you just a little bit from the catechism to set a foundation here as we then begin to look into scripture. And I think that this will help you in terms, okay, what does the Catholic Church say about the papacy? What does the Catholic church actually teach, you know, about the papacy? And then we'll look at some of the scripture. And this is from paragraph 881 and 882 of the catechism. It says that when Christ instituted the 12, he constituted them in the form of a college or permanent assembly at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them. Just as by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic

college. So in like fashion, the Roman pontiffs, Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another. They are together, okay? They make up the magisterium, by the way, as well. That's the teaching office of the church. Now, the Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter the rock of his church. He gave him the keys of his church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. The offices of binding and loosing, which we're going to look at here in Matthew 16, was given to Peter. And it was also assigned to the College of Apostles, united to its head. And this pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of peter

today now the pope bishop of rome and peter's successor is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and the whole company of the faithful for the roman pontiff by reason of his office as vicar of christ and as pastor of the entire church church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered. So that's from paragraph 881 and 882. Now the text that people want to argue about, and it's the text that the keys of the kingdom, the papacy comes from, is Matthew chapter 16. Now Matthew chapter 16 is a very pivotal chapter because it is, it is really the last thing that Jesus is going to do before he sets his compass to Jerusalem to go and die for the sins

of the world. This is the last thing that he is going to do. And so I'm going to read to you from paragraph 13 to 19 as the foundation, and then we'll take a look at some of the particulars of it. It says, now when Jesus came into the district of Cesarea, Philippi, which by the way is at the very northern part of Israel, it's on the Lebanese border. We go there on our pilgrimages. He asked his disciples, who do men say that the son of man is? And they said, well, some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. And he said to them, but who do you say that I am? Simon Peter replied, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. and Jesus answered him

Blessed are you Simon Barjona For flesh and blood is not revealed this to you But my father who is in heaven And I tell you you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church And the powers of death shall not prevail against it I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven And whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven

And whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven There it is That's the text That's the text right there. Now, I want to go through just some parts of this with you and give you some points that you can share, absorb yourself, but also share with other people. The first thing that Jesus asks them up at Cessaria Philippi

is, he says, who do men say that the son of man is? Now, that title, son of man, for those that don't understand the Jewish roots of the faith, will oftentimes juxtapose son of man with son of God. God like this. They'll say, well, the Son of man speaks of his humanity and Son of God speaks of his divinity. Couldn't even be further from the truth. The Son of man is a title that you will find in Daniel chapter 7, as well as many other places in scripture. And it's the one title that Jesus refers to himself by more than all other titles combined. Son of man is a phrase,

a title for the Messiah. And you can read about it in Daniel chapter 7 the son of man will receive a kingdom and all power and authority will be given to him okay so son of man is uh uh a title and who do he says who do they say the son of man is and there's several guesses and they're wrong you know john the baptist elijah jeremiah or one of the other prophets wrong wrong wrong wrong and he said that to them but who do you say that i am because he is the son of man and it's peter peter is the one that replies he steps up to the plate, so to speak. And he says, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. You are the Christ, the son of the living God. Now, many Protestants will, and again, this

is not an argument. We're not, this is not putting people down. We're just looking at what people teach. Many Protestants will say, that is the foundation right there. That is the rock right there. It's his statement. It's his confession. You are Christ, the son of the living God. Well, we know that to be true, but that isn't the foundation. That is not the rock. Jesus said, you are Christ, or Peter said, you are Christ the son of the living God. And Jesus answered, Blessed are you Simon Barjona? For flesh and blood is not revealed this to you, but my father who's in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter. And on this rock, I'll build my church. And the powers of death shall not prevail against it. So the key statement there is in verse 18,

and I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock, I will build my church. Now, what is that rock? What is Jesus doing during this discourse? Well, he's building his church, number one, is it he is building his church, number two, he is going to establish authority in his church. And his church, his kingdom and his church, really those are synonymous terms, the kingdom and church, he says, I'll build my church upon the rock and I'm going to give some keys.

All right now, that term rock is used metaphorically in the Bible for protection or refuge and is often in relationship to both God and human leaders. In the Psalms, God is referred to as the rock. We read in Psalm 951, O come, let us sing to the Lord, let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. in the prophet Isaiah he records that Abraham is a rock it says in Isaiah 51 verses 1 and 2 hearken to me you who pursue deliverance

you who seek the Lord look to the rock from which you were hewn and to the quarry from which you were digged look to Abraham your father and to Sarah who bore you for when he was but one I called him and I blessed him I blessed him and made him many And so we've got a, we have a consistent basis here for both God and humans being referred to as a rock. If anyone says, well, rock always refers to God. It was not true.

I mean, Abraham and Sarah are also called rocks, all right? So he says, he speaks of Peter as this rock that he's going to build his church on. Now, this is an interesting thing because a rock means something to the Jews of the first century. It means something. And what it means is it means where the temple was built. You see, in Jesus' day, there was a special rock, and that rock was on Mount Mariah. And Solomon was the one who built the first temple, and where do you think he built it? He built it on that rock.

If you see pictures of Mount Moriah today, the Temple Mount area, it's a golden dome. Islam has a dome there, the dome of the rock, and it's a big golden dome. That's the place that Solomon built the first temple. He built that first temple. In fact, Second Chronicles 3.1 says, Then Solomon began to build the house of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah,

where the Lord had appeared to David, his father, at the place that David had appointed on the threshing floor of Ornan de Jebusite. Okay, so this rock has a name in Hebrew called the Evan Hashatiyah. I'll have all this in the show notes for you. Evan Hashetia. And the Jews believed that there was really no other place

that Solomon could build the temple because that rock has special significance. The Jews believed that when the waters parted after creation, that this stone was the first. to appear. And they also believed that this stone was the very stone upon which Abraham offered Isaac. Now, why is this important? Because Solomon chooses to build the temple at this location in 2 Chronicles 3. The temple is built at the same spot where Abram offered Isaac. And the Jews believe that the only place of the temple could be built was on Mariah. And so the rabbi

saw this stone as the pillar of the earth, the literal name. all right now you might remember that it was brought up that in Matthew chapter 12 in verse 42 that the the question came up you know Jesus said the powers of hell will not prevail it was it was believed that the Evan Hachetea covered get this the opening to Hades the Jews believed that in the first century that the temple covered this rock which had a shaft down to Hades so it was the presence of God the kingdom of God it was the the authority of God that blocked the work of hell that's why the temple was built on the at the at Mount Mariah now Solomon was referred to as a wise builder right

he was he was referred to as a wise builder Matthew chapter 12 but Jesus said someone greater than Solomon is here and he's building the new temple and so when Jesus says to Peter in Matthew 16 upon this rock I'll build my church and the gates of Hades the gates of hell will not prevail trust me it was not lost on anybody there they knew the imagery that he was he was teaching that the Old Testament had the temple on that rock and stopped the work of Hades and Jesus was going to build his kingdom, his new temple upon Peter and the gates of hell will not prevail. Very, very powerful, very powerful there. Okay. And I'm going to take a break right here. I want to come back. I want to continue with this

and I want to talk about this stone Peter from the book of Daniel. And then I want to talk about the keys for just a few minutes. and go a little bit deeper with the scriptural basis for the papacy. You're listening to The Jeff Kaven Show. It's hard to live out your Catholic faith on your own. In fact, the Bible reveals that we need a community of people to help us on our journey of faith. If you're interested in finding that community by joining or starting a small group study, visit ascensionpress.com and sign up for a free Ascension account.

With your account, you'll get all the tools you need to start walking with others towards Christ. Welcome back. We have a little bit longer of a show going this week because we're talking about a deep topic, and that is the scriptural basis of the papacy. And the text is Matthew 16, where we know that Peter confesses, you are Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus said, are you Simon Barjona for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you but my father who is in heaven okay and I say to you you are Peter which means small rock and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail that is a total parallel to the Old Testament reality that Solomon built the temple on Mount Moriah the Evan Hashatia the capstone of the world that

covered the shaft down to Hades. That's what was taught by the rabbis in the first century. I'm not saying that's scriptural. I'm saying that's what was taught. That's why they believe the temple was built there. And Jesus is, in a sense, riffing off of this and saying, Peter, this kingdom that I'm building, it will not let the gates of hell prevail. And upon this rock, I'm going to build my church. It wasn't lost at all on those who were listening. Now, there's a real interesting. text in the Old Testament that speaks about a small stone toppling kingdoms and growing into a worldwide movement, which is what Peter ended up doing, right? And this is in Daniel chapter two, where in Daniel chapter two, Daniel interpreted the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, which Nebuchadnezzar

had a dream of a statue, and that statue had a head of gold. right? Shoulders of silver, a body of bronze, feet of iron mixed with clay. And it was Daniel that gave the interpretation of that dream to Nebuchadnezzar. And here's how the interpretation went. Now, this is just prior to Jesus coming on the scene. This is later in the Old Testament. Daniel said, okay, I see the statue you're talking about Nebuchadnezzar, and here it is.

The dream is about four successive kingdoms. You, O Nebuchadnezzar, the Babylonians, you're the head of gold. You reign supreme, yay. And after that, we'll come another kingdom. After the Babylonians, another kingdom, that's the shoulders of silver. Those are the Medo-Persians. And then a body of bronze. Those will be the Greeks, coming after the Medo-Persians.

And then feet of iron mixed with clay, that will be Rome. But then he saw a small stone. stone coming down and striking the statue in the head, crushing the entire statue. This little stone grows and grows until it becomes a mighty mountain covering the world. This stone is the kingdom of God. And Jesus' statement to Peter is a fulfillment of Daniel chapter 2. It's a fulfillment of Daniel chapter 2. The little stone is now grown and covers the world.

Now there's another thing. It's very powerful here that I want to share with you. And that is that in Matthew 16, Jesus does something bold. He says to Peter, I'm going to give you the keys to the kingdom. Now, my friend, that is very important. This is critical because the keys refer to an office. they refer to an office in the Old Testament, which we could call the prime minister. It has a title in Hebrew, and I'll say it's slow for you, it is the Al-ha-Bai-eit.

Al-habayet, that is the one who is over the household. It's the prime minister. And the prime minister is in charge of the kingdom in the Old Testament. If the king is sick or gone, that's when the prime minister takes over. Now, fortunately, we have a text in Isaiah 22 that gives the job description of the al-habait, the prime minister. And what I want you to listen for are keys here, because it's the only time that we're going to see it, is that the prime minister in the kingdom of David has keys. He is the leader.

All right? This is critical. And in Protestant Bibles and Catholic Bibles alike, you'll see a cross-reference from Isaiah 22 verses 15 through 25 and Matthew 16 with the keys. And then when I'm done reading this, I'm going to ask you a simple question. Thus says the Lord God of hosts, come to this steward, Tushavna, who is over the household, that's Al-Habayit, and say to him, what have you to do here and whom have you here that you have hewn here a tomb for yourself? You who hew a tomb on the height and carve a habitation for yourself in the rock. Behold, the Lord will hurl you away violently, O you strong man. He will seize firm hold on you and whirl you round and throw you like a ball into a wide land.

There you shall die and there shall be your splendid chariots. You shame of your father's house. I will thrust you from your office and you will be cast down from your station. okay so this is like the the doing away with one prime minister they're going to bring another one in right this one didn't do such a hot job verse 19

in that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah and I will clothe him with your robe and will bind your girdle on him and will commit your authority to his hand and he shall be a father papa to the inhabitants of Jerusalem into the house of Judah

and I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David He shall open and none shall shut And he shall shut and none shall open I will fasten him like a peg In a sure place And he will become a throne of honor To his father's house

And they will hang on him The whole weight of his father's house The offspring and issue Every small vessel From the cups to the flagons Okay, so we've got this text In Isaiah 22 and he gives kind of the job description Doesn't it? He says he's going to have

a robe, he's going to bind a girdle on him, will commit your authority to his hand, he'll be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. I'm going to place on his shoulder the key of the house of David. And it says, and he shall open and none shall shut. He shall shut and none shall open. Now that is a juridical phrase that later would fall on the shoulders of the Sanhedron in Jesus Day. And it means that they have the authority to allow and not allow teachings. So they have juridical power and authority. And that's where the authority resided in Jesus day was the Sanhedron. So you can see now that if we go back, before we do that, look at this. Verse 23, I'll fasten them like a peg in a sure place. What does that mean? Well, in the tents back

then, they had all of the parts of the tent were held with tent pegs, but then all of the ropes were held together in a taught way and one particular peg was driven into a sure place which which added stability to the tent okay and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house he's going to have the full weight of his father's house upon him so this is the prime minister the al-habbi now with that understanding from the old testament i didn't make this up Catholic Church didn't make it up. We did not make this up that the prime minister has an office, clothed with a robe, had authority, referred to as a papa, possessed the keys to the house of David, had the power to bind and loose,

fastened like a peg in a sure place, had a throne of honor, and the whole weight of his father's house hung on him. We didn't make that up. That's the prime minister. And the prototype to that is Joseph, even back in Egypt. So we didn't make this up. So when Jesus is going to establish his kingdom, and we are going to see him fulfilling every aspect of the Old Testament, well, the question is, very easy, who's going to be the prime minister of this new kingdom? Well, it's the easy to answer, and I'll ask you the question. Who has the keys? It's very simple. Who's the prime minister in the new covenant? It's so easy. Who's got the keys? Well, who do you think has the keys? Matthew 16, Jesus said, I'm giving you the keys to the kingdom.

What you bind on earth is bound in heaven, and what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven. This means that Peter is the prime minister. He is the first pope out of 266 popes entrusted with running the kingdom when the king is away. And so we know that Jesus, after he died, he was buried, he rose from the dead, he ascended, and he, of course, before this, gives the keys to Peter. So we have Jesus entrusting this authority to Peter. And later we see just some beautiful things here that the church teaches us that Peter has the juridical power now to bind and loose, just like in Isaiah 22, and that connotes an authority to, you know, to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgment. make disciplinary decisions, so forth, in the church.

It's great stuff. Love it. You can read about it in paragraph 553 in the catechism. I'll put it in the notes for you. Why don't we do that? I'll just put it in the notes for you. But then later in the New Testament, we see Simon Peter or Seifus. His name occurs nearly 200 times.

And the names of all the other disciples combined only occur 130 times. You see, there's a primacy to Peter. There's a primacy to Peter. He is the leader. In the listing of the Apostles in the New Testament, Peter is listed first, Matthew 10. Peter was the spokesman and the authoritative voice of the apostles in the early chapters of the Book of Acts at the First Council in Jerusalem. Paul spent 15 days in private with Peter before beginning his own apostolic ministry. So we see this continually over and over.

The Temple Tax Parable, Matthew 17, the Parable of the Wise and Faithful Steward, Luke 12. I don't have the time today. Maybe in another podcast we can go into them. The controversy over the word rock in Matthew 16, all of them. Peter has primacy there. So very, very powerful, very powerful. Now, one of the controversies about this is the name.

the name game. I've heard some people say that before. Jesus bestowed special prerogatives on Peter, you know, recounted in Matthew 16, Peter's given a new name, which in scripture denotes a change in status or position. Kind of like in Genesis 17, Jesus spoke in Genesis 17, there's some name changes. You can go back and look at that, but Jesus spoke. Arabic and gave Simon the Aramaic name Kifa, Rock, which is Petra in Greek and Peter in English. The Greek, Petra is feminine, so the masculine Petros was adopted. There's no distinction between Kifa, the man, and Kepha the Rock upon which Jesus would build his church. Peter is the rock.

He is the rock. Now, this means a lot to us as Catholics. So what does it mean? And I think what I'm going to do is do another show at some point to go through the whole issue of infallibility and also what the early church fathers taught about this. Maybe we'll do that at another time. I've got plenty to share with you along those lines. But let's wind this up because the show has gone on quite a while.

What this means is this. Jesus is the master builder. And the last thing he does before he makes a belief, line for Jerusalem to die for our sins, the Passion Week, is he establishes authority in his church. Now, that sounds like a wise builder, doesn't it? Now, this is going to mean for you certitude, a foundation, a certainty about what we believe and what has been passed on because the Holy Spirit is overseeing this whole process. Now, yes, there have been a few bad popes, granted, but they never changed anything concerning what we believe.

moral failure, yes, theological breakdown? No. We have this deposit of faith that Jesus passed on through apostolic succession, thanks to the chair of Peter. We have now this certitude to build our lives on. Let me ask you a question before we close this out. I have been a big fan of Apple Computer for a long time. I like their products. Kind of a fan boy. But Steve Jobs was a master builder at Apple. Some people didn't like him, but you can't argue with the fact that this guy was a genius, kind of a modern Edison. It was a wonder, people wondered when they found out he had pancreatic cancer and that it looked like he was going to pass away. People on Wall Street wondered how much of Apple's stock, which was the largest in the world, largest

company, even above Exxon, they were wondering how much of that stock price was his name. and his legacy. And they were wondering, was it 10%, 16%, 23? We didn't know. So people were bracing for his death. What's going to happen to the stock? Guess what happened to the stock after he died? Nothing. And you know why? Because Steve Jobs saved for his last big thing, the corporate ethos. It was the corporate atmosphere. It was his strategy that he passed on to Tim Cook and he could be seen walking very feebly with Tim Cook passing on day after day after day passing on the DNA of Apple to Tim Cook now whether you like Apple or not that's that's inconsequential here's my question do you think Jesus is a better builder than Steve Jobs

I do I think he's a better builder and I think he's a better builder and I think he's a better builder and I think he did a better job and he knew what he was doing when he gave the keys to Peter. Now Peter is the first pope and we have this succession of popes all the way through Pope Francis with number 266 and this has held us together. Now I want to leave this now with a prayer and just encourage you to take a sense of service. out of this show that you can rely on what the church has taught. You can rely on the chair of Peter because Jesus is the master builder. He is the master builder. Upon this rock, I'll build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail. I'll give you the keys to the kingdom. What you bind on

earth will be bound in heaven. What you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. We have a sure authority. We do. That doesn't mean that you necessarily want to bow to that authority. That's where humility comes in. But I can tell you this. Since coming back to the Catholic Church over 20-some years ago, I have never had such a sense of certitude, such a sense of authenticity. And since I have come back, and yes, I do appreciate so much of my Protestant background, and I will never let go of it. The love for scripture and praising God and opening up the home and praying for people on the street and all of that. But you know we have a fullness of faith thanks to the papacy. And we have the Eucharist thanks to the papacy because Jesus said to Peter, do you love me? Yes. Do you love me? Yes. Do you love me? Yes.

Then feed my sheep. And that is the Eucharist. And every priest in the world that has been ordained is tied to Peter and has the authority to give us the greatest gift of grace, which is the Eucharist, the body and blood, soul and divinity. Not anybody can say those words. And bread turns into the body of Christ and whine into the body or the blood of Christ. No, it gets back to Peter to feed my sheep. Well, we're going to have to spend more shows on this. I think we've gone on for a while.

Hey, I want you to know that I'm praying for you. And I do encourage you to go to iTunes and Google Music Play and do I have that right? I think I got that right if I don't correct me. And rank the show and give me your comments. And if you want the show notes automatically, give me an email. And I think we might institute that here shortly. My email is the Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. I welcome your ideas, show ideas, and I want to know how you are doing.

Let's pray. In the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, I thank you today for giving us life. And I thank you, Lord, for giving us life. us a sure foundation in the papacy. This is your church. You built it, and you have given us authority. Lord, we hear you when we hear Peter, and we trust you. We trust you. In Jesus' name, amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Have a great week, my friend.

Thank you.