The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - How to Forgive When You Don't Feel Like It

Episode Date: September 8, 2017

Forgiving isn't easy, but it's what we're called to do. In this episode, Jeff encourages us to show mercy to others just as Christ has shown mercy to us, and he suggests several concrete actions we can take to forgive those in our lives who have hurt us.

You're listening to the Jeff Kavana show. Episode 32. How to Forgive when you don't feel like it. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavins. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general.

It's the Jeff Kaven show. Welcome to the show. And another great topic this week. that I've been thinking about, and one that we all have experienced at one time or another, and that is when we don't feel like forgiving someone who has offended us, somebody who has really crossed us wrong, and it begins to seize and boil over inside, and we know we're supposed to forgive them, but we don't, and then we suffer the consequences. That's what we're going to talk about today. So if you know of anybody, besides yourself, of course, who has

experienced this, you might want to share the show with. them. As always, I welcome your response and your suggestions for shows and your feedback. And this week, we got a great email from Sophie. Sophie writes us on the Jeff Kaven show, and she says, I just listened to your podcast, Anger is the new love. And I need to tell you that it is wonderful. I sent it to my family members and printed it out so I can read it to the woman in my jail ministry. Great, good for you, Sophie. That's fantastic. That you're involved in prison minister. history. For a long time, I have been trying to get a handle on what is going on in the world and the origin of all the anger and hatred, and you gave it to me. Thank you so much. What

amazed me was the vision of Pope Paul the 6th back in 1965, which says a great deal about the truth. She goes on and says, I am feeling as a Catholic the increasing desire to encounter the attacks that I am seeing. What is your opinion? Do we need more street ministers? more, yeah, Swedish, by the way, more church ministries dealing with this problem. Yeah. I know that prayer can move mountains, but I feel that we should be doing more. And this feeling lies very heavy on my heart. Good for you, Sophie.

I appreciate your comment. And yes, you are exactly right. We need more of these things. We need more people on the street. We need more church ministries that are dealing with the problems today. and helping people to form opinions and give insight when we see the news, like all the crazy things that have been happening in the news, what are we to think about it?

How do we respond to it? If we don't think about it and respond to it, we can go into despair thinking that everything is just falling apart. And so, Sophie, hats off to you and keep up to good work on the local scene. Well, this topic about forgiveness that I'm going to talk about today is a topic. topic like, you know, when I spoke about suffering and I said, I know what I'm talking about, I have suffered physically, you know, with my neck being fused many years ago and the nine months of pain that I went through. This too, I know what I'm talking about. You know, I know

what it is to not forgive. I know what it is to be trapped by unforgiveness and the pain and the loneliness and the darkness of unforgiveness. And I know what it's like to be free. to be free and to walk in forgiveness. And my friend, that's for you. If you picked up this show and maybe you went through all of my shows and you said, that's the one I want to listen to first. There's a reason. And that is that maybe you have experienced the things I have experienced.

All of us have had the experience of being hurt, haven't we? Wounded or in some way emotionally bruised by someone we love or an acquaintance at work or even a stranger, we have been hurt. And life is filled with these opportunities for us to get jabbed or spoken evil of or gossiped about or cheated out of something or betrayed. And we're hurt. And we feel like, you know, somebody owes me something for what they did to me. Jesus put it this way in John 1633. Jesus said, I have told you these things so that,

In me, you may have peace. In this world, you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world. I appreciate his candor. You're going to have problems in the world, but be encouraged. I have overcome the world. How many of us can identify with this story? Things are fine with you and your brother-in-law and your sister-in-law. And then one Thanksgiving during the family get-together, something is said that kind of stings. And you thought what was said was wrong and unjust, but you let it pass. Now, you and your sister-in-law, or you and your brother-in-law, for years have been doing things together. The kids have been raised together. The cousins are together. You go out to movies together. You walk around lakes together. You go out to eat. But after that statement that

was made at Thanksgiving, the days turn into weeks, the weeks turn into months, and your relationship has changed. What started off as being offended is now turned into full-blown unforgiveness. And you want payment. You want him, you want her to make it right. And your relationship isn't the same anymore with your sister-in-law or your friend or your colleague at work. And you long for those days that you used to enjoy. But now that that statement was made at Thanksgiving, now that that action was done at your daughter's birthday party, now everything has changed. And you feel this unforgiveness towards them and this darkness in your heart towards them. And you don't know what to do about it. You feel like you're trapped. Well, we all run into stumbling blocks. You know, the Greek word for

stumbling block, you know what it is? In Greek, the word for stumbling block is, Scandalon. I'll put it in the show notes. Don't write that down, okay? Even though it's the red light, just keep going, right? I'll get it all down on the notes for you. Scandalon. Now, a stumbling block is that which gives offense, an object of anger or disapproval. Jesus was a stumbling block to some. A stumbling block. You know where the term scandalon comes from? It's kind of interesting. This doesn't pertain to Jesus, but it pertains strictly to the word scandalon in Greek, this idea of a stumbling block. The scandalon, you've seen a mouse trap.

You know, we all got mouse traps. Some of the mouse traps have the wire on them, and some of them are just plastic now. But that little place, that little part of the trap that you put the cheese on, that little bar you put the cheese on on the trap, that in Greek is called the Scandalon. That's the Scandalon. comes from the idea of a bait stick, a bait stick. To be offended is to be trapped. To be trapped. And when you're offended and when you walk in unforgiveness, you, my friend, are trapped. Now, as I speak to you right now, I have three traps waiting for the mice in my basement.

I have set three scandolons. Opportunities for offense, we might call them for Mickey. But we don't want them in the basement. So we set three traps. I put bait on the traps. And my hope is that the mice are going to take the bait and get trapped. Do you know that the enemy sets traps for you? He sets traps for you.

And he puts the bait on the scandalon. And he's sitting there going, I hope they take the bait. because if they take the bait, they will be trapped. Now, let me tell you about the design of a trap. The nature of a trap is such that, number one, it doesn't look like a trap. You didn't know that when your sister-in-law said that at Thanksgiving that you were facing a trap. You didn't know that your colleagues at work when they did what they did in that meeting was a trap. See, traps don't look like traps.

And here's the other part of a trap. This is one of the ideas behind a trap, is that a trap is meant to be stronger than its victim. Now, my three little traps in the basement right now set for little Mickey. Those are stronger than the little mouse, and he's not going to be able to get out of them if it snaps on him. In the same way, if you get into unforgiveness and bitterness and being offended, that trap, if you take that bait, it's stronger than you. you. You're going to need help getting out of it. You really are. Now, what happens when we don't forgive? Well, when we don't forgive, the biblical principle for not forgiving somebody that is hurt us in some way is really, you know, quite harsh if you want to know the truth. There's this

principle in the Bible called exile and return. Exile and return. In salvation history, salvation history is a tale of exile and return. Now, Israel was God's firstborn among the nations, and they were called on by God to do what? They were called on by God to do to others what God did for them. And what did God do for Israel? He carried them out of bondage on eagle's wings and set them free. Exodus chapter 7 in verse 16, Let my people go was the call from Moses to Pharaoh, and God delivered them.

And guess what? He expected Israel to treat the nations as they were. treated. Now, back in that culture, there were slaves and there was property taken and things like that and debts that were incurred. And every 50 years in Israel's life, the law stated that they needed to celebrate a Jubilee. And a Jubilee every 50 years was proclaimed, and during that Jubilee year, slaves were returned to their family, land was returned, liberty should be proclaimed throughout the land. Debtes were forgiven. But guess what happened? And I'm not going to go into this in detail, but you can look it up in your Bible. In Jeremiah chapter 34, Israel failed to release

and extend liberty. And as a result, Judah went into Babylonian captivity in 587 BC. You want to read about it? You want to hear the reasons? Jeremiah 34. It describes the whole thing, that you yourself would not set free other people. And, you know, when you look at the gospel, when you look at the gospel, and you see in Luke chapter 4, verses 18 through 19, Jesus is in Nazareth in the synagogue, and he takes the scroll,

and he reads from the scroll in Luke chapter 4 and verse 18. Let me just find that for you real quick here. Luke chapter 4, I've had my, My hands right now on my well-underlined Bible. It is Luke chapter 4, and I want to read this to you, verses 18 and 19. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Jesus said, because He has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight of the blind,

to set at liberty those who are oppressed to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, gave it back to the attendant, sat down, and the eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. And he began to say to them, today, this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing. But you notice those words that he proclaimed in Luke chapter 4? What is he doing? He is proclaiming a new great Jubilee. And the Jubilee is about freedom. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me. He's anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim, here's the key, release to the captives, release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind. So, Jesus proclaimed this great jubilee.

Now, Jesus forgives us our sin, but it didn't happen magically. Our sin was forgiven because he paid the price. 1 peter talks about this in 1 peter 1 p.1 verses 18 and 19 i'll put it in the show notes you know that you were ransomed from the feudal ways inherited from your fathers not with perishable things such as silver or gold but with the precious blood of christ like that of the lamb a lamb without blemish or spot now i say this because i want you to understand that when it came time for jesus to forgive you it wasn't magic It wasn't a wand. It wasn't fairy dust flown into the air. He took our place and freed us from our sins. He suffered for us. And it always strikes me when I read about this in Matthew chapter 27 and verse 21 where you have Jesus standing before the governor and you have before pilot. And then you have Barabbas standing there. And the custom was every year during the Passover, the Romans would release a Jewish prisoner into freedom as a sign of the Passover

and the celebration of freedom at the Passover. Freedom, release. And there, Barabbas is standing. And Jesus is standing. And it suddenly hit me one year when I was reading this. It just blew my mind away that this was so profound, and it was so profound because of the meaning of the name of Barabbas. Because it was Pilate that set free Barabbas. He said, you are free.

Because he asked the people, well, who should I set free? Every year we're going to set somebody free. And the people yelled Barabbas, who was an insurrectionist and a murderer. you want me to set barabbas free this criminal this murderer this this individual that's Greek for bad and they said yes set barabbas free well what do you want me to do with Jesus crucify him now here's the here's the juxtaposition that blew me away on one hand we have the son of the father the beautiful sin Sinless, rather, the beautiful, sinless, perfect, loving, just, kind, gentle, son of God.

Son of the Father. And then you got Barabbas. But you know what the name Barabbas means? Son of the Father. You've got two sons of the Father standing before Pilate. the altogether holy Jesus, the Lamb of God, and the insurrectionist in the murder. And it was the son of the father that was guilty of insurrectionism and murder. He was set free because the son of the father, Jesus, paid the price.

And that was the reason for Barabbas' release. My friend, if you've ever seen my picture on the Internet or on a television show, you are looking at Barabbas. I am Barabbas. I am the son of the father that was guilty of hell. I'm the son of the father that was guilty of sin, and the son of the father took my place. And when Jesus was on the cross in John 1930, he said, it is finished. When he received the The vinegar, he said, it is finished. And he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. Now, this is the way Jesus set us free.

Now, let me just shift gears for a second. I'm going to take a break. When I come back, I want to talk about how we now are called to walk in the ministry of Jesus and forgive others as he has forgiven us. Don't go away because I'm going to talk about the consequences of, not forgiving, and you aren't going to like it. We'll be right back. The Bible is such an important part of our Catholic faith, but it's not always easy to

understand. There are 73 separate books and so many names, places, and events that sometimes we just stop trying to figure out how it all fits together. The good news is the great adventure Bible studies make it easy for you to understand the Bible. By focusing on the story that ties all of Scripture together, the Great Adventure Bible studies give you the big picture of the Bible, and once you see the big picture of salvation history, the Mass will make more sense,

the Catholic faith will make more sense, and you will see how God has a loving plan for your life. The Great Adventure Bible Studies have helped hundreds of thousands of people to understand the Bible and grow closer to Christ. There's no other Catholic Bible study series like it, and you can get started on the great adventure today by creating your free account at ascensionpress.com. Welcome back to the show. We're talking about a topic that will affect your life today, tomorrow and in the future, and it'll affect it in a big way. And that is the subject of being offended by what others say and spilling over into unforgiveness.

And unforgiveness is a terrible, terrible thing. I could say this. Remember that commercial on television years ago that a brain is a terrible thing to waste, you know, on drugs? I would say this, forgiveness is a terrible thing to waste. And if you're forgiven by the Lord, now you are expected to forgive others. In fact, that's really the premise of the Lord's prayer. Lord, you know, our father, who art in Evan Hallowit, be thy name, thy kingdom. Come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses. as we forgive those who trespass against us. The topic of forgiveness is so central to the gospel that it's one of the main tenets of the Lord's Prayer.

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. The concept that Christ is communicating is, and get this, is that we are to forgive, whether it's debts, trespasses or sins against us, it all comes down to the fact that Christ has forgiven us and given us the ability to forgive others okay and that is a that is a very very powerful powerful thing now I want to I want to read something to you and this is really kind of the crux of of the story it's the story in Matthew chapter 18 it's the story of the unmerciful servant I mentioned

you before the break that I was going to tell you what will happen if we don't forgive because forgiveness is so central to the gospel. It's one of my favorite stories, not because it has such a great ending or anything like that, but it reminds me constantly of my obligation to extend the forgiveness that God has given me to other people. Remember, I mentioned before the break that Israel was to do to the other nations what God did for them. He released them from bondage. to release people from bondage. Jesus has paid for all of our sins. He has set us free. He has released us. And now we are called on to Actinette in that mission of his and to forgive other people. You know, I've often, before I get to that, I've often thought the hardest part

about being a Christian today is not being on the finance board of your church. That's not the hardest part. The hardest part is not teaching CCD at a junior high level. That's hard, but it's not the hardest. The hardest part of being a Christian today is not being on the fall committee and manning the beer tent. That is not the hardest part of being a Christian today. The hardest part of being a Christian today is doing what Jesus did, and that is dying to ourselves on the cross and releasing people that we feel owe us something. Because when we are offended and we walk in unforgiveness, it's like a high tower around us. People cannot get to us. They ask us, hey, are you okay? Yes, I am. Have I offended you? No.

You know, like a wall goes up. And people who have been offended and are walking in unforgiveness are so hard to get to because they put these walls up around them. It's very, very difficult. But listen to the story. It's an amazing story. The parable of the unmerciful servant. Therefore, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him 10,000 talents. You got that? 10,000 talents. Now, a talent is a measurement. And a talent is more than, are you prepared for this? A talent is more than 15 years wages of labor. One talent, 15 years. How many did this guy owe? 10,000 talents.

In other words, he owed 10,000 times 15 years. You do the math and email me. That's a lot. In other words, this is like impossible. How is he supposed to pay back 10,000 times 15 years labor? And he could not pay. Hello. And his Lord ordered him to be sold with his wife and children and all that he had in payment be made. So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, Lord, have patience with me. And I will pay you everything.

Now here's the swing in the story. Listen to this. Verse 27. I'm reading out of Matthew 8. Verse 27, listen to this. The Lord, out of pity for him. The Lord of that servant, here's the key right now, circle it in your Bible, out of pity for him. The Lord of that servant released him. There's the word, released him, and forgave him the debt. That's verse 27. Let me pause there just for a second. Can you seriously imagine that? Have you ever been in credit card debt? My wife and I, when I was younger, My wife had the ministry of balancing the checkbook. I had the ministry of spending it. And I was very good at it.

And we ended up in debt. You know, we were in credit card debt. And we were so young. And I think I had $5,000 worth of debt, which was a lot of money at that time. And it felt like there was this shackled. I had weights on me. We couldn't even order a pizza without feeling guilty. Oh, you can't really get a pizza.

So we owe $5,000. But what if the president of MasterCard showed up at my front door and said, I've got good news for you. I have released you of the $5,000. Can you imagine how good we might have felt or how good you would feel if he came to your house and he took care of the $10,000 that you owed? Wow. But listen to the servant's response after being.

forgiven 10,000 times 15 years of wages. Verse 28. But that same servant as he went out came upon one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, a few days of wage. And seizing him by the throat, he said, pay what you owe. So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him. In the same way that this guy pleaded with the original master over the 10,000 talents, he said, be patient with me.

will pay you. But he refused. And he went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. And when his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed. And they went and reported to their Lord all that had taken place. You see, that guy did not count on Fox and CNN having cameras rolling at the time. And it was all caught on video, all reported back to the master. and they told him what had happened, and they said, you forgave that guy 10,000 talents, and then he went out immediately and found a guy who owed him three or four days wages, and he wouldn't forgive him, and he put him in prison.

Verse 32, then his Lord summoned him and said to him, You wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you? And get this. And in anger, his Lord delivered him to the jail. till he should pay all his debt. In other words, he had a debt he could not pay.

10,000 talents. There's no way to pay that. He's going to spend the rest of his life in prison and his family trying to pay this off. And he had it all. It's like Adele singing, we could have had it all. We could have. I'm not going to sing. Don't even look at me that way.

I'm not going to sing. We could have. have had it all. And we did have it all. And we were forgiven of everything. But we refused to forgive our sister-in-law and our brother-in-law for something that was said at Thanksgiving. And we lost it all. We won't forgive other people. Now, that's the end of the story. But it isn't the end of what Jesus said. And this is what really tweaked me a number of years ago. His last words in the story is, and in anger his Lord delivered him to the jailers till he should pay all of his debt. End of story. Verse 35. Listen to this. If you want to get sobered up here

real quick. So Jesus looks at his disciples. So also, my heavenly father will do to every one of you if you do not forgive your brother from your heart. Well, Lord, you know how to spoil a story. it's a little too close to home you hear what he's saying he's saying he's telling the story and then he says he said that the jailer put him into prison until all of his debt was was paid and then he stops and looks at him and says my father will do that to you if you don't forgive your brother from the heart in other words there are consequences to unforgiveness now let me let me just speak real straight to you I mean, we're friends, and we've been together here on a number of shows, and I'm here to share my life. I'm here to share the truth of the gospel with you, transparent, both barrels.

I just want you to know the truth, and that is this. We jeopardize our peace of mind and our equilibrium when it comes to our spirit, in our heart, in our emotions. All of this goes out of kilter when we refuse to forgive other people who have offensive. us. Yes, I know it hurt. Yes, I know you want a pound of flesh. Yes, I know you want it to be reversed. This will not be reversed what they said about you. The feathers are out of the pillow. You're not going to be able to get them all back in. Don't try. You need to do what Jesus did. You need to die to yourself on the cross. You need to forgive and to release.

This is the hardest part about being a Christian, but Jesus has given us the power and the model, the example to do it. And what do we do when we forgive? We release them. We release them. I'm not going to go into today because I don't have the time, but I can tell you story after story of genuinely being hurt and offended myself

and experiencing two to three months of darkness and feeling like my life will never be the same because of what somebody said or did regarding me. And I came to a point where I realized my inability to forgive, my unwillingness to forgive landed me in prison, shackled, limited, discouraged. And I had a choice whether I was going to stay in that prison or I was going to let the person go and find myself free.

Was it hard? Yes, it was. Was it effective? Yes, it was. Forgiveness is powerful. It is a tool, a weapon. It is something that Jesus has given us the ability to do. Think about that for a moment.

Wouldn't life be different if God created you in such a way where you could do a lot of things, but you couldn't forgive? And as a result of not forgiving, you know what happens? Behavior manifests, and it manifests in woundedness, in the way we spend our money, in the way we self-medicate, in the way we blame, in the way we treat our own family, the way we build shelters and caves and hide in them from our pain. My friend, if you're experiencing that in your life right now, or you know of somebody that is, this show is for you. This is the marvel of social media. We can talk to each other about eternal things and about spiritual things that have major consequences and what you do with

this show right here. If you're struggling with unforgiveness, what you do with this show right here may have an impact on your children for the next 50 years. You say, well, Jeff, that sounds really serious. Oh, you think I'm serious. Let's go back and read the last line of that chapter. So also, my Heavenly Father will do to every one of you. If you do not forgive your brother, from your heart. Now, here's the good news. You can do it. And I'm going to give you a kind of a simple recipe to do this. If you are struggling with someone who has forgiven you, you need to go to confession and you need to confess this, that you are bound. You're in a trap that was bigger than you and you didn't know it was a trap. It's a trap. It didn't look like one, and it's bigger and

stronger than you are. I need help. Jesus, Jesus, help me get out of this trap. Help me get out of the trap. And when you go to confession, you're honest about it and you confess it, that you took the bait, you took the scandal on, and you got trapped, and you're bruised, and you're limited now. Forgive me, Lord. And now you need to extend forgiveness towards those who have hurt you. Now, in some cases, this is going to involve a personal encounter. Now, you pray about it. I'm not, I'm not your spiritual director, but you pray about it. Do you need to talk to them? Do you need to set up a coffee and to say to your brother-in-law or to your cousin or to your mom or dad or whoever it might be that you have been hurt and that you forgive them and love them

and then asking God to to heal you know that wound that has been created in your life and so there are times where where we're called to to forgive in person there are there are times also where the person that offended you is dead now they're gone but there are things that you can do. You can pray for them. You can pray for them with an honest heart. Or you can visit their gravestone. I remember telling one lady that was so caught up in unforgiveness towards her mother, and I asked her to, she needed to release her mother and forgive her mother. And she said, my mother's gone, and I said, you just still need to release and forgive. See, releasing and forgiving someone has a big impact on you. It's not just them.

It has a big impact on you. And if you don't, it impacts you. And I told her to go to the gravestone and clean it and leave flowers and a note expressing love and in your heart or verbally at that grave site, I forgive you, Mom. I forgive you, Uncle. I forgive you my colleague. I forgive you my sister-in-law. I forgive you, my brother-in-law. I release you. You owe me nothing. You owe me nothing because Jesus paid the price for all of my sin and he set me free for all eternity. I can do this to you. I can express this love that I have received to you. You can do that. Is it hard? Yes. Can you do it? Yes. Are there consequences for not? Yes. It's real life. So that is what I want to share with you today. And this might be timely. It just

might be the right time that you heard this show. And maybe even if you look at the dating of the show and you say, my word, that was a year ago. I had no idea that that was the show that was going to catch my attention when I looked at iTunes. Isn't God good? Isn't God good? It's amazing. So let's pray, shall we? Let's pray and let's ask the Lord right now to help you to get through this difficulty that you're facing right now and you're feeling trapped. by unforgiveness. But Jeff, they really hurt me. I know.

I know. And so does Jesus. And this is the tool he's given you to deal with that. And it might take a little time to heal, but healing will come. And if you persevere, trust me, a love can spring up in your heart for that person. It has in my life. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Lord, I thank you for my brothers and sisters who have tuned in here to this show, and it's

for a reason. Lord, you have called us to express what you have done for us, and that is, you have freed us, and you have forgiven us of all of our sins, and, Lord, we love you for that. But, Lord, we stumbled. We were offended. We took the bait. and we are now riddled with unforgiveness and it's like a rot in our bones that is eating us alive and we can't be free we can't get out of this trap ourselves oh god we call upon you to free us

from what has ensnared us lord free us and help us to release that person and to forgive that person that has offended us we do it by the power of the holy spirit we do it as as a response to your command, Lord, in Matthew's Gospel, to free others. For this is what you've called us to, to walk in your mission. And this is the hard one. But, Lord, we trust you and that you can give us the grace to do it. And my friend, I want you just to repeat after me. You just say that person's name right now.

Just say that person's name, followed by, I release you. I forgive you. I don't expect payment and I don't expect restitution. Jesus has paid the price. No longer will I raise one hand to Jesus on the cross while the other hand has you in my grasp with my fingers around your throat. I will not walk between two ways anymore. I will release you and love you. Thank you, Jesus, for giving me the grace to do this.

and I pray for my friend who has offended me and that I have released. I pray that you would strengthen them and that you would bring them to yourself as well. We pray this in Jesus' mighty name. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Wow, I didn't expect to share all that with you today, but I'm glad we had this time together. Send me a note. Email is The Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. at iTunes. Send a message, rank the show if you want to. The more stars, the better.

But let me know what you think. And if you go to ascensionpresents.com forward slash podcasts, you can also get the show there. But do me a friend, do me a friend here. Do me a favor. You've got to know three people who should have been with us on the show today. You've got to know three. pass the show on to him. Give them an opportunity as well. God bless you and you have a good week.