The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Investing in Your Spiritual Life: Stories from the Holy Land

Episode Date: January 31, 2020

Jeff is on his fifty-seventh trip to the Holy Land, and is talking to fellow pilgrims, Toni Griffith from Clearwater, Florida, Keith Senn from Louisville, Kentucky, and Michael Norman from Denver, Colorado about their experiences in the Holy Land. They discuss the surreal experience of seeing the places where Jesus walked and how it changes your spiritual life. Get Jeff’s Shownotes by texting “jeffcavins” to 33-777 Email Jeff: [e-mail]

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show, episode 151, investing in your relationship with the Lord. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show. Hey, welcome. Welcome. Welcome to the show. show, and I'm still here in Israel. Love it. This is the first time I think I've spent about a month with people, you know, going on pilgrimage, and it's been two pilgrimages we've had, and they've been absolutely wonderful. Years ago, I was here for over a month. I was in my 20s, I think, back in the

1980s, but this time we're traveling with so many neat people. In fact, today on the show, I'm going to introduce you to three great guys who've been traveling with me, Keith, Michael, and Tony, and they're going to share a little bit of their insights and some of the things that have surprised them on this pilgrimage. While I was over here, I received from Ascension Press the trailer of the new epic Bible study on Jesus that we have put together that actually was shot over here last June with Marcellino di Ambrosio and Dr. Edward Sri and myself, and that is, that's out now. And it is, it's amazing. You can order it already. You have never seen video like this from the Holy Land. And Marcholino does such a great job in putting the workbook

together and the videos look spectacular. And we kind of take you on a little bit of a pilgrimage to the Holy Land where I'm at right now in this study of Jesus. So as technology gets better and better. I think we can give people kind of a sense of being here, but it never ever really replaces, never really replaces actually being here. You know that one of the common remarks that I hear from people, and this isn't just about the Holy Land, but it's about lords, it's about Fatima, it's about, you know, Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City, and all the other places around the world that people make pilgrimages to. One of the common denominators is, they say, man, I just wish I would have done this when I was younger. And I remember my first time

coming to the Holy Land. I was 25, 26. And I remember thinking afterwards, man, I blew it. I wish I would have come over here when I was 18 or 19 years old. And of course, I look back now and I say, well, you were fortunate to come over to the Holy Land at such a young age as 25 or 26. But I can't tell you how many times during Mass, Bible reading, devotions, Bible study. I, see the Bible in 3D, color, and that's the real gift and the advantage, and that's the investment that was made in my own spiritual walk. And I really encourage you to make that investment if you can at some point. I'm going to be coming back home to the Twin Cities in just a few days. Life will be normal as it was. And it's sort of like a pilgrimage is like going up

on the Mount of Tabor, the Mount of Transfiguration, where Jesus is illuminated. you know, with Moses and Elijah, we went up there just a day before yesterday. But you've got to come down from the mountain, right? And you've got to live your life. And that's what we're going to be doing and taking all of this, all of this with us. Hey, I wanted to remind you, by the way, that if you have any prayer intentions, when we take these pilgrimages, we take those with us, we have mass at all these incredible, incredible places. And we have envelopes at the foot of the altar, your prayer requests, your intentions. and we remember that on these pilgrimages.

And you can send that to me, and I would love to pray for you. And I'll put all the information on how to get a hold of me in the show notes. And if you want the show notes, again, it's texting my name, Jeff Kavens, to 3377. It's real easy. 3377. In the subject line is my full name, no spaces. And we'll get the show notes out to you. So we have three guys that I want to, I want you to meet, and I interviewed them early in the morning.

And so we sound like we are a little rough, but that's okay, because we get up early. Some of these guys get up at 5.30 in the morning, and every morning walk to the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem and spend an hour in prayer right there at the tomb of Jesus. And right there at Calvary, where Jesus was crucified. It's amazing, absolutely amazing. And so I hope you enjoy the show. On this pilgrimage in the Holy Land, we are accompanied by some absolutely fantastic people. And that's one of the real joys for Emily and myself in traveling to the Holy Land

is not just seeing the sites which we have done many, many times. In fact, this is my 57th trip to the Holy Land, but it's meeting people from all over the country, all over the world, and experiencing Christ with them and the transformation that takes place not only in my life, but their life as well. And I wanted to introduce you to a few of the men who have been traveling with me, and their wives are also traveling with us, but this is very early in the morning. They're still asleep, or they're down at the Holy Sepulcher. And I want to introduce you to Tony and his wife Carol is with him. Tony Griffith from Clearwater, Florida. Tony, it's been a pleasure to travel with you here in the Holy Land. It's been an amazing experience for us as well.

Thank you. Tell us a little bit. What do you do? What do you do for a living? I'm a lawyer. We've raised four daughters and we're very involved in our parish and especially life teen. You're life teen, fantastic. Mark Hart.

Yes, yes, yes. Do you serve with him? Our mutual hero and you're our hero. Yeah, he's a great friend. You know, we've done a lot of work together, and Life Teen is a powerful, powerful ministry. For those that aren't familiar with Life Teen, tell me what you're doing these days. Sure. It's, of course, a movement leading teens to Christ, and it's involved with middle school and high school youth.

And it's very much consecrated through Mary, dedicated to the Holy Spirit, and Eucharistic driven. So it's through about 2,000 parishes now in the country, and very much. very much meeting teens where they are. And you're on the board. Yes, I am. You serve on the board. That's fantastic. I remember meeting Mark years ago in Mesa, Arizona, before he was a geek, the Bible geek,

that is, for people that are not familiar with him. And he has a fantastic podcast. What made you and your wife, Carol, even consider coming over here to Israel in the Middle East, particularly with everything people hear about Israel, and political issues and all that. I think it's a natural progression in our faith for so many of us, right, with the desire to grow closer to Christ, but also to have a better understanding of Christ and how he grew up almost, I was kind of thinking this morning, almost like you're dating somebody, and you want to

really learn about them, you go to their hometown, you go to the places they've visited, you see all these things and learn so much about them, you come away with a deeper knowledge. It's a little bit of that, but so much deeper. That reminds me of just the other day. that Scott Hahn came to the Twin Cities, and the two of us were speaking at St. Cloud. And prior to that, we spent a day going through my childhood. I went to my high school, my kid home, and I ended up bringing him to a cemetery in Chanhassen, Minnesota.

And I said, just come with me. And we walked across the street and goes, why are you bringing me here to this cemetery? And I stood on the ground, I pointed down, I said, this is it. He said, why? I said, this is where I'm going to be buried. I took him to our plots, you know, where someday we're going to be buried. And he goes, oh, I got to get a picture here. And so we got a picture.

But you're right. You know, you take people to where you grew up. And it's like that coming over here. Where did Jesus grow up? Where did Mary grow up? Where did he say this? Where did he say that? And it really brings it to life, particularly the Sea of Galilee area.

Has there been anything, Tony, on this pilgrimage that really stands out to you? Yeah, two things that kind of knock my socks off. One would be the learning aspect. There's so much depth in our faith that I think even those of us who are deeply involved in our Catholic faith, who read the Bible regularly, who go to Mass, who participate in the sacraments fully, I think there's so much to be gained by going through a pilgrimage like this, both spiritually and intellectually. And intellectually, I'll give you a simple example.

we joke about the, you know, the closeness of the word cemetery and seminary. And I think it's funny. It's perfect because the teaching you had yesterday, as a matter of fact, when you were talking about those that have the most difficulty dying, only die once, they don't die to self every day. And that teaching blew me away. We're overlooking Jerusalem. We're looking at the steps towards Christ's crucifixion,

and you're giving that teaching about dying to self. And I was, as you know, I was writing furiously as you're speaking. And I just thought that was so poignant that that point that point that you made, which is that that death to self each day takes away that fear of death ultimately because we are so close to Christ and we're getting closer and closer in a sense you'd be looking forward to that day. Right. So that was the one intellectual that I would say surprise. The huge personal surprise to me and my wife as well when this happened to me was when we

went down to the area of the Annunciation, I was expecting when I went to Gagatha, when I went to these other moments. And those were spectacular, spectacular. But the moment that took my breath, that physically took my breath, which I wasn't expecting, was when we came down those steps and you're looking at Mary's home. And in that moment, there was that, like, you're jumping into cold water, you know, that you don't have your breath. In Nazareth? In Nazareth. I didn't expect in Nazareth.

I did not think it would be there. I didn't necessarily think my breath would be taken at all. But to have a physical reaction from a spiritual moment, see. seeing where Mary was for the initiation, where her home, and thinking into and praying into, and that just surprised me, the depth of that moment. Wow. And, you know, when you walk through the streets of Jerusalem, you walk through the streets of Copernum and Nazareth, you have to use a little imagination in some places like

Nazareth, but around the Sea of Galilee, I mean, it's pretty much the way it was. That did take my breath away when I jumped at that. Yeah. Did you go in the water? Did you really? me about that. I wasn't there. What you do? No, I just, I was just thinking, look, if Jesus walked on this, if he's been here, I need to immerse myself in it and went out there. Would you sneak out in the morning or something? At night, it was late at night. It was the 42

degrees, right? The hot shower going before I went out there. So it was already on, so I came bolting right back to the room, but that was refreshing. Wow. What would you say to somebody that has always been sort of on the edge and saying, well, I'd love to go there. It's kind of on my bucket list, but I don't know. I would say this. First, of all, you don't need to come with anyone. The people, I think you nail it, the people here, the guy sitting right here with us, Mike and Keith right here, are a perfect example. But the people here that go on this pilgrimage will bring you closer to Christ. Obviously, your teachings, but the, and all these teachings, but the people that come on the pilgrimage will

inspire you in your faith and you will have friends from the moment you step on this beautiful, this beautiful ground here. So that would be number one. Don't worry about bringing anybody with you because the pilgrimage is a soulful, soulful search. And the other would be that if your desire might be to grow deeper in your faith or in any way, or we want to deal with an issue or a loss, we have a, you know, a good friend of yours who is here, you just talk to people who have gone here that have had difficulties and losses in their life, to come through and to be with phenomenal priests, confession available all the time, mass at all these holy sites, you're able to deal with issues in life, break away from the busyness and the stress,

and really immerse yourself in the most holy of holies here. And so just that depth forward into our faith, I think, is something every one of us as Catholic Christians should try to accomplish at some point in our lives to be here. Yeah, you know, we have coming up in June, Father Mike Schmitz and I are going to be coming back to the Holy Land, but it's going to be a little bit different, kind of a trip. And it reminds me of life teen, actually. You know, we got Focus missionaries. We've got Life Dean leaders.

We have a trip for young adults, and we're going to have about 250 young adults who are coming. Focus is a phenomenal group. I know a number of the Focus missionaries. Yeah. One of them to a person or more. And Life Dean, you know, we're going to have a lot of Life Teen leaders. But we're going to have about 250, maybe 300 people coming. We've got Father Mike Schmitz.

We've got Andrew and Sarah Swafford. Oh, my gosh. From Atchison, Canada. loves us. And we've got Taylor Tripodi singing Ali Ali Aaliyah, Brother Isaiah from Father Grouchel's group. Fantastic. And it's going to be warm, so we have a lot of water activity, you know, but it's going to be a time of transformation. By the way, my friends, that is still open right now. And we're going to be closing that pretty soon. So I would encourage anybody who could do that. Yeah, amen. Get on board because it really is the trip of a lifetime.

I remember, Tony, when I came over here for the first time, I was 25 years old. And in fact, I'll put a show. I'll put a picture in the show notes of me sitting on the Mount of Beatitudes at 25 with my wife, and she's eight months pregnant. I mean, it was a pilgrimage. But I remember thinking back then, I blew it. I waited until it's 25. I wish I would have done this when I was 18, you know.

I've been thinking that at my age of 58, exactly. You know, this would have been an investment. Tony, thanks for joining me on the show today. And we are not done. We got more days ahead, so we're looking forward to it. Thank you. That's Tony, he's along with Carol Griffith. They're from Clearwater, Florida.

And they have been joining me and having just a great time. And we've been enjoying our time with them as well. Also, Keith, Keith and his wife, Susan, are here from Louisville, Kentucky. And Keith, your last name is sent. Yes. And what brought you over to the Holy Land? Well, actually, truth be told my wife's been in a Bible study and with a couple of ladies. And they've done some of your studies.

and she's been on her bucket list for the last three or four years and we finally had it set up to where we could come over and we were both born and raised Catholic and so you read about these sites and these things that happened in these miracles and it was a good opportunity to come

it was a good timing and good opportunity for us to come over. That's super. Anything so far you know kind of into full disclosure we started in we started in Cessaria Meritima where Paul was imprisoned he made his appeal to Caesar

we went up to Mount Carlin We went to McDowalad celebrated Mass where Mary Magdalene was from. And we're staying on, we stayed on a kibbutz, which is little like cottages right on the water. And Tony was talking about going out at night and swimming. And then we made our way all around Galilee and now we're in Jerusalem. So far, what has, what's, where did he stood out for you? Probably a couple big ones. One is down below, we were down below St. Peter's House there at Sea of Galli.

Yeah, Kurnum, yeah. Yeah, right there on the water, looking out, and you know, Jesus and the apostles were right there, you know, right around there. And, you know, we're doing the fish or walking on the water, and you're standing right there. I mean, and as you said, going around the city of galley, it just looks, it probably looks about the same. I mean, there's not a whole lot of difference there in the mountains versus, you know, coming into the cities and they get destroyed and rebuilt. So it's just really beautiful and just kind of reflecting, you know, Jesus was here, the apostles were here. I mean, this is, it happened here. Yeah, you're not in Oklahoma or Kentucky imagining something.

Right. You know, you or Louisville, you're actually on the spot and around the Sea of Galilee. It really hasn't changed that much. You know, one of the highlights for me up there in Galilee was at the Mount of Beatitudes. And I was after Mass. And we were talking about Jesus' prayer life and how he would come up there from Copernum and overlooked the Sea of Galilee. and that's where he heard the Father's voice.

And the Catechism teaches us that what he said and what he did is a manifestation of his private time with his father in prayer. And I looked out over the Sea of Galilee, and Keith, that day was beautiful. And you could see the whole lake, you know, shaped like a harp. And I couldn't help but think this is what he saw so many times as he listened to the Father. And then I kind of challenge myself, can I hear the father? You know, can I hear God speak to me in my life? And so often you do have to go away and you have to be in that quiet place and listen. And for me, that's kind of what the whole pilgrimage is.

It's getting away from the norm, walking where Jesus walked, and trying to get, you know, into his world as he was obedient to the father. Any other places that were big for you? Probably just sitting up on Mount of Olos. And then you sit up there and really kind of the way that you drew it out. and looking at we're up at the mountain models. We're going to go down to the garden. And where Jesus walked, where he went up to the last supper, where he was arrested, and you're just looking around there,

and we're right there. And then we're walking down the hill, you know, down to the garden of Gassimini. And we're right there again. It just puts it all. I've read it all my life. But we're sitting there in the place. We're sitting up on the mountain, up on the top,

and just looking at it. It's like, this is where they were. It was just, it was very moving. Yeah. The other one was really nice up in Canada, doing the wedding vows again. It was always, you know, it's going to be a special moment that we'll, you know, we'll never forget. That's right. We have an opportunity for every married couple.

And even those that are married and their spouse isn't with them, they can kind of stand in proxy. And we renew the vows. That's a powerful thing to see couples look at each other and say, I love you all over again. And I'd take you again, you know. And I think Emily and I have renewed our vows something like 45 times. times there at Cana. What do you think you're going to take back with you? Can you imagine what mass is going to be like when you get home?

No, actually, I'm kind of curious what it's going to be like going back. As much as I've learned and experienced from here, it's going to be different when I go back. And, you know, I think things are going to change as you go back. I'm going to look at things a little bit differently, look at mass a little bit differently. You know, probably participated a little bit differently. And so I'm really looking forward to that. This is kind of like the beginning. You know, this isn't the end, the pilgrimage.

Good thought. it's beginning. And, you know, we're going to take a lot from our experience here and grow from it when we get back home. That's going to be exciting. Well, I appreciate it, Keith. And we're not done. And you and Susan are a joy to travel with. And we're all on this together. And I think one of the beautiful things, too, is that we're going to, hopefully we all get to heaven. And we're going to look back and say, hey, we experience something very special together. Hey, we're going to take a break right now. when we come back, I'm going to talk to, we got Michael, we got Michael and his wife Stephanie are here. In fact, I met them for the first time in Denver, Colorado when we took that

epic motorcycle trip a couple years ago. And we're going to talk with Michael Norman. And we'll be back in just a second. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. Imagine this. You're walking down the street and a Christian at a table with a bunch of pamphlets asked you. Have you been saved? What would you do? Would you know how to respond? Hi, I'm Dr. Andrew Swofford and I'm co-presenter, along with Jeff Kavins and Ascension's new Great Adventure Bible Study, Romans, the Gospel of Salvation. In this study, we teach you the biblical foundations for the Catholic teaching on salvation, how to explain salvation quickly and easily to non-Christians. What St. Paul really meant by works not leading to salvation and how we can enter more deeply into Christ?

Paul's letter to the Romans has been at the center of reflection, conversion, and controversy from the very beginning, and it's widely considered his greatest work. I invite you to start a small group in your home or perish and embark on this great adventure. Romans, the Gospel of Salvation, is available for pre-order right now and for purchase on September 1st, 2019. To order, visit ascensionpress.com. Thanks for coming back. We are still in Israel. This is the first time I think that I've spent the entire month of January in the Holy Land. So I'm, I think I'm thoroughly acclimated now to the Holy Land. And today we're talking to a few men that I've been traveling with. we have opportunity to have dinner, we can walk and talk, and we're visiting all of these amazing

holy sites. And I wanted to talk for a few minutes with Michael. He's traveling with Stephanie. In fact, they're from Denver. And I first met you, I think it was a couple years ago when I came through Denver on the Harley Davidson as we were driving around the country. And this is something that we do every year. In fact, this coming August, we're going to go to Oakland, California, up to Seattle, over to Banff, and down to Montana. And about every other night, I speak at a church, and it happened to be your church in Colorado. Right, Jeff.

It was actually our daughter and son-in-law's parish, Our Lady of Lords, in Denver. So it was exciting to see you there. And you spoke at that beautiful grotto that they have. Wasn't that something? Yeah, it's an amazing place. Somewhere under 10,000 people showed up. I don't know what, and I'm just kidding.

There was, I think there were several hundred people, and a lot of young people. It's a great place to witness the faith of the youth. Right. That community is so strong there, and it's beautiful to see that. So you and Stephanie have been traveling with us now for a week and a half or so, and we're sort of entering the home stretch the last few days in the pilgrimage here. What were your expectations before you came to the Holy Land?

I don't think I had any strong expectations other than I, I was hoping that it would be something similar to your Bible studies, and I was happy to see that that was the case. My wife and I have gone through five of the study programs, and our six starts on the fourth, so we'll miss that first week, and we're studying Romans. And so I'm looking forward to that, but really the primary expectation was just to increase faith and see where Christ walked and get something maybe a little bit to supplement the Bible study. And my expectations have been blown away. Have you said, has it supplemented the Bible studies?

Yeah, without a doubt. And just seeing these holy sites and participating, and the community is also just phenomenal. And I've heard so many stories and such a wonderful way to witness. Christ is through conversation with fellow Catholics, and we've heard incredible stories of faith and talking to people who have been married more than 40, 50 years, and coming from large families, and it's just wonderful to be perfect. I think you're touching on something that can't be underestimated, and that is you're not sitting on a bus, you know, just you and Stephanie alone, and you're really developing relationships

with people. And what we've noticed over the years, and this is my 57th, is that some of these relationships are relationships for life. People stay in touch with each other. If they go through, if people come through Denver, they may stop and have a meal with you for kind of like a reunion. So there's a dynamic in the bus where you have a tremendous guide, driver, and there's a community that is built there. And you eat, you share meals with one another. You know, if you're like me, you probably were imagining what a Nazareth was like growing up or Bethlehem or, you know, Jerusalem, or the Sea of Galilee. How off were you in your estimation of what these places were like?

Yeah, I think my biggest surprise was the lack of development. You know, we think you have a beautiful lake like the Sea of Galilee and I'm envisioning you're going to have development around the entire circumference of that lake. Yeah, right. Casinos. Yeah, and just to see next to nothing. and it's so pristine and is it Tiberius is the... That's the big city, yeah, on the west side. But that's pretty much it.

When you look at the landscape and one of my most memorable was the Mount of the Beatitudes. And that was one of the readings my wife had picked for our wedding. And just being there overlooking the sea on that beautiful day was really special. I really enjoyed that, but that was probably the biggest surprise at how small and how similar it probably is other than that one large city on the Sea of Galilee. That was special. Anything that you can share at this point that you would say, while that really spoke to my heart, a point of real spiritual growth, or at least something that stimulated your heart where you kind of hit you? Well, there were many of those, but I think maybe two that stood out the most for me on Mount precipice overlooking Nazareth when you had the teaching about family dynamics and being excited about your faith and those that are often the closest to us are those that reject our enthusiasm and reject the faith. and that really touched me and something I certainly could relate to.

The other was talking about the Chirigma on the Sea of Galilee. And just the concept of discipleship is something that I'm trying to get better at and being more confident discussing my faith. And the process that you spoke of during that teaching was really helped. And it's similar to what you talked about at the grotto at Our Lady of Lords in Denver. Yeah, yeah, now that you mentioned it, you're right. And so I think using that as a tool, actually being here and being able to have conversations about the land that Christ walked is helpful to supplement those conversations. And I'm looking forward to bring that home.

You know, what was interesting is, as you, we share a meal, you know, we talk, and come to find out, where was this? Oh, this was in, we went to Kaffar Katamur, the ancient, kind of a little ancient village where we made cheese, we made bread, we saw the olive presses, and we got to have lunch together with Stephanie. And come to find out, you live in Denver, but you come to Minnesota all the time to Eden Prairie, which is about a mile. from where I grew up, you know, in high school. That's right. And I worked at the Chan Heson Dinner Theater. And Stephanie says, well, I go there all the time when you're at work. You know, she comes with you.

So our lives cross in so many ways. It's interesting. Yeah, as we were talking with Tony earlier, and we know Mark Hart. And the world gets smaller, you know, as we get more serious about our faith. I think it gets a little bit smaller. But next time you come to the Twin Cities, we have to have, we'll have you over. That would be wonderful. So that's another relationship.

Yeah, that's great. Well, folks, I want you to pray for Michael, pray for Keith, pray for Tony. These are guys that are just like you. I mean, just like me, regular guys who are on pilgrimage and God is doing an amazing thing in their life. And I hope that you can come with us sometime in the future. Emily and I will be coming back for the foreseeable future every January. And we've been doing this for years and years, and we love it. And we hope that you'll join us as well. I'm going to put that picture in the show notes. In fact, I'll put a few of the pictures from this pilgrimage in the show notes.

But I'm going to put the 1985 picture of Emily and I sitting over the amount of beatitudes. And I got to warn you, I have more hair, I have no gray hair, and I look quite young. And Emily is quite pregnant. But it's a lot of fun. And if you are interested in getting the show notes for any of the shows going forward, It is a real easy way to do it. All you have to do is text, my name, is one full name, Jeff Kavans, J-E-F-F-F-C-A-V-I-N-S, and text 3-3. That's easy, right?

3-3-3 for Trinity, 3-3-7-7. And we'll get you on board with all the show notes and everything that we include in every single show. Again, I encourage you to go to iTunes and Google Play, rate the show, and give some comments. You participate with me. in those algorithms. Sometimes people you know are searching online for topics like depression or family troubles or whatever it might be. And we try to address a lot of these issues, and you and I can work together to bring the good

news to people all around the world. Let me pray with you as we conclude this podcast and ask you to pray for us continually. And the three men and their wives, Michael, Keith, and Tony. Let's pray in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, I thank you for this opportunity to spend time with my friends, not only here, but from all over the world, and to share a little bit of this pilgrimage that we're on in the Holy Land in Israel. Lord, I pray that you'd continue to work in all of our lives over here, but I also pray, Lord, that everybody who participates in this podcast, we lift them up and that

you would continue to draw them closer to yourself as disciples, and that every one of my friends listening would be more perfectly conformed to you, Jesus, and your mission, and that we would go beyond anything we ever thought we could. We'll not be afraid, but we'll trust in you as we walk on water. We thank you for this. In Jesus' name, amen. Name of the Father's Son and the Holy Spirit. I love you. Keep praying. Thank you.