The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Lay Ministry: Passion vs. Romantic Notion

Episode Date: April 24, 2026

How do you know if something is truly your calling or just a compelling idea? Jeff explores how to discern your place in the Church by identifying the difference between a genuine passion and a romantic notion. Many people feel drawn to roles like writing, speaking, or ministry, but not every attraction is a calling. Through Scripture and practical wisdom, we can discover our gifts, cultivate them, and put them into action in a way that serves God and others. Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit https://media.ascensionpress.com/?s=&page=2&category%5B0%5D=Ascension%20Podcasts&category%5B1%5D=The%20Jeff%20Cavins%20Show for full shownotes!

This podcast is brought to you by Ascension. To discover even more free Catholic podcasts, videos, and resources, to help you live your faith every day, visit ascensionpress.com. Welcome to the Jeff Kaven Show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together in living as activated disciples. This is show 479, Lane Ministry, Passion, or Romantic Notion. Welcome to the show again this week. I'm Jeff Kavans. Thank you for joining me. You know, over the last number of years, I have had so many college students from some of the real reputable Catholic colleges around the country, emailing me and asking me a particular question that I thought I would bring up today for you because you might be asking that same question as well.

And that is, what am I called to? What can I get involved in? do I know my gift and how do I cultivate it? And so I thought I would take a week just to talk about that a little bit because I've written a lot of emails and talked to a lot of young people. And I started noticing kind of a pattern at times when people were asking that question of what am I going to do? They may write to me and say, I feel like I'm called to be a writer. I feel like I'm called to be a podcaster. And this is all, this is all a little bit different than, you know, the vocation to priesthood or the deaconate or to religious life. This is really geared towards laymen that are

interested in getting involved. Something happened. They had a conversion experience, and they started to see other people involved in apostolets, or what I'll call for the sake of this podcast, lay ministries. And they will say, well, I feel like I'm called to be a right. I'm called to be, you know, a missionary, or I want to get involved in men's ministry or women's ministry. So I thought I'd talk a little bit about that. Oh, by the way, if you do want the show notes, all you've got to do is text my name, Jeff Kaven's one word to the number 3377. And I've got a few scriptures here that I'll put into the show notes for you. Well, when we talk about giftings and we talk about the various gifts in the church, there's two major

texts in the New Testament. Paul wrote them both, and they both talk about the gifts in the church and the types of gifts in the church. Now, I want to read those to you real quickly to give you kind of a background that the body of Christ is many parts, and Paul speaks of it and describes it as a body, you know, parts of a body, because that's what we really are. We are the body of Christ, right? So he talks about in Romans chapter 12, 6 through 8, he says, having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them if prophecy in proportion to our faith, if service in serving, he who teaches in his teaching, he who exhorts in his exhortation, he who contributes in liberality, he who gives aid with zeal, he who does. acts of mercy with cheerfulness. And then he over in Corinthians, he talks about kind of the same idea. And this one is also in chapter 12, kind of an easy way to remember it. And it's just a few verses here. It's verses 8 through 12, 8 through 12. So let me go through those with you real quickly

here. He talks about how to each is given the manifestation of the spirit for the common good. Then verse 8, to one is given through the spirit the utterance of wisdom and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, and to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and another, the interpretation of tongues. All these are inspired by one, and the same spirit who apportions to each one individually as he wills. Now, the second reading in Corinthians is dealing with the gifts of the spirit, and I'm not talking about that specifically today, but I wanted to share with you Romans 12 and 1st Corinthians 12 really to illustrate that there are different functions in the body of Christ, different giftings. And I would dare say different types of lay ministry, too, that people can get involved in.

And there's one scripture that I have really held on to for years and years and years. You may or may not know, but I used to be a Protestant pastor for 12 years and then came back to the Catholic Church. And in that time, we encountered a lot of different programs that you could go to to find out your gifting or what you have a tendency to do, you know, what you're attracted to. Sherry Waddell has a fine program on finding the giftings of the, you know, in the body of Christ. And I would recommend looking into her ministry as well. She's just a fine lady who's done a lot of work in this area.

But the scripture was Proverbs 226. And I'm going to read it to you one verse. And as I read that, there's two ways of interpreting it. It's Proverbs 226 and it says this, train up a child. in the way he should go, even when he is old, he will not depart from it. Now, there's one way to look at that. Number one, you can train up a child in the way that you want them to go. You can train up a child, you know, according to what you want them to do. And that's not the correct interpretation, by the way. But it's often used. And so I think that sometimes parents have this idea that when their child is born,

it's like an empty hard drive. You know, it has just a little bit of coding for the system, you know, given by God. But then the parents can pretty much program that hard drive. And we can get you into music. We can get you into athletics, engineering, medicine, education, and teaching, whatever it might be, biology, astronomy. And that when you grow old then, well, you're not going to depart from it. And even when you're old, that is not what the scripture means. Not in English, not in Hebrew. It's not what the scripture means. The second is what the scripture means. You see, in the Jewish community, the parents' role was to form their children in the faith, but also to take note as they are growing up what way they're going. What is their interest? What catches their eye? What do they start talking about? Maybe they're playing firemen, which most boys do it and girls do at a young age or a teacher. But,

As they grow older out of those adolescent years, they start to take an interest in different areas. And the role of the parents is train up a child in the way he should go. And it's observing that child. You know, one of your children is just really drawn to music. They're playing the piano. They have a guitar. They just love it. They're singing in all the choirs and all that.

That's what the parents notice. And they begin to sort of bring them down that path to give them the opportunity to, enjoy that and grow in that particular area. For example, when I was growing up, I wanted to be a writer. Even though I had a very poor education in English and grammar, I loved writing. And I would take notebooks and write stories in them. And I would write stories for assignments in school and all of that. And I started to take, in my teens, a real interest in finding out who got. was, I was going in that direction. I was actually investigating different religions, you know, reading the Bhagavaghita, Tibetan Book of the Dead, Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.

And at the same time, I am doing a lot of writing. Now, one thing that my dad told me about, no, no, probably 10 years ago, he passed away last year, a year and a half ago. But about 10 years ago, he was telling me about something. And that something was a parent-teacher conference in sixth grade. My teacher was Mr. Knight. Mr. Knight. Mr. Knight was a fantastic teacher. And I remember him reading in our sixth-grade year, Robinson Caruso, great, you know, epic journey of a man on an isolated, on an island and with another guy. And it really caught my attention. And I started writing more and more. Now, what's interesting is my parents saw me writing and filling up notebooks with little stories. And my dad went in for my parent teacher conference. And I really struggled with the formal

writing part of it. And my teacher told my dad something. He said, Bob, there's two things that Jeff will probably never do. Now, see, Mr. Knight did not live with us. He didn't see my room in all of the writings. I had so many books. I would mow lawns in the summer. And I would I would shovel driveways in the winter just to get money to go and buy books because I loved it so much. And even when I was in sixth, seventh, and eighth grade, I was pretty much reading all adult level books, you know, Moby Dick, the Last of the Mohicans, and a lot of other stories, stories about presidents, biographies, and so forth. He told my dad, he said there's two things that Jeff will never do. Number one, he'll never be a writer. and the reason was I was so bad at English when I was growing up I had to take remedial English

in college. The second thing he said was he'll probably never be a public speaker. And the reason for that was because I got so nervous and sick to my stomach that I basically would pass out. And so if you have a hard time remaining vertical in giving talks, well, the conclusion might be maybe that's not what this young man is called to in life. And keep in mind, everything finds its ending point in serving God. Everything. There really isn't anything outside of that that we are called to in our life. But when my dad came home, he did not say anything to me. And the reason was is because he saw me writing. And he didn't read my stories or anything, but he always saw me carrying around a notebook and writing stories and poems. And I love writing poems, even as a sixth, seventh, eighth grader.

I was writing poetry. When I met Emily, I gave her poetry, you know, and I hope you and others don't ever see it, you know, I don't think it's very good at all. But that was the way that I was going. My dad did more to follow Proverbs 226 than Mr. Nye. or anybody else. If I told other people I want to be a writer, they would have said, oh, good luck, Kavans, you know. But my dad never told me. And I asked him, why didn't you tell me that? And his answer was beautiful. He said, I didn't want that thought in your head. I did not want the thought that you couldn't speak or you couldn't write in your head. Most likely, because he saw me doing it at home. He used to do stand-up routines at home and speeches and put on place.

plays for parents and relatives, and I really, really enjoyed that. So that's what this is talking about. So I would ask you at this point, where are you going? What is your passion? What do you seem to be attracted to? And all of this, of course, is within the moral boundaries and of the Christian message, the kingdom of God, and his will for us. But what do you normally just sort of go back to, you know, filling your time? Now, that's a question. a more difficult question these days because a lot of people, and this is an important point for parents, a lot of young people don't discover what's really in their heart, what God has created them for because they're spending so much blasted time on social media. And they're just watching

trivial stories about other people that doesn't really add up to much, but it's entertaining, kind of cute, and, of course, they're interested in what everybody else is saying about them. We need for our kids today as parents to give them the silence and the freedom and away from technology to a degree so that they can at least experience and dabble in some of these other areas. How does a kid learn the piano when he can't put his phone down? How does how does a kid develop a real interest in math and trigonometry or biology or education or sports if all he's doing is hanging on to that phone. I would argue that that phone that those kids have is a huge hindrance to finding out what God has called you to in your life. And I know one thing for sure.

God has not called you to surf the web. There's no such thing as a professional surfer of the web, at least that I know of, and I don't think it's going to be that satisfying. So there needs to be some time in growing up to give young people an opportunity to discover the universe, discover who they are, maybe what God is called them to. Now, once I speak to young people and email and just talking at conferences and so forth, someone will say to me, well, this is what I think I'm called to be a teacher. I think I'm called to be a writer. I think I'm called to be an engineer or a aerospace engineer or something like that. If that is the case, then you need to take the next step in cultivating that. You know, I used to be a pastor of a young man who, just

incredible. He was homeschooled. His name was Eric. And Eric was a smart young man. He was homeschooled, but from the very early stages of his life, he seemed to be interested in science, airplanes, jets, and engineering and all of that. Well, that young man, his parents cultivated that in him. They let him go that way and gave him the opportunities. And he ended up at Stanford and graduated with a PhD in aeronautical engineering and works with major airlines and some of the new things that are being developed that you're probably going to be writing in in 15, 20 years from now. And he also went before Congress to talk about this. But we saw it in him when he was young. So I'm going to take a break. When I come back, I want to talk to you about the difference between

passion and romantic notion, because sometimes people miss what God has called them to as far as ministry in the church or life in general because they mix up romantic notion. with a deep passion for something. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. So often during mass, we can go on autopilot. We are physically there, but mentally we're somewhere else. We're distracted, we're bored, or we're just going through the motions. A lot of Catholics think that the problem's them. They might say, oh, I'm bad at prayer. I'm just not spiritual enough. But we want to realize is that at every mass, something extraordinary is taking place in our souls. And that's why Dr. Ed Sree and I co-wrote a book on the mass called Pocket Gives.

guide to the Mass. And in the book, we walk through the Mass, step by step, explaining what the Mass is, what's happening, why we say what we say, do what we do, and how we can more deeply enter into the sacrifice the Mass, and more fully received the gift of the Eucharist. It's a simple, faithful, and small enough guide to bring with you at every Mass. And if you want to understand the Mass more deeply and pray it more intentionally, I invite you to check out Pocket Guide to the Mass at ascensionpress.com. Welcome back. We're talking today. The title of the show is Lay Ministry, Passion v. Role. romantic notion. And I'll explain to you what I'm talking about there. Okay. I have had quite a few people

write me and say, I want to talk to you about what I'm going to do after college. So they will tell me when I'm done with college, and a lot of these are some of the really good Catholic colleges. They'll say what I feel like God has called me to do what you're doing, Jeff. And so if I get into a dialogue with them, I'll just say, not an email. I'll just say that we talk. We talk. at a conference and they come up and say, I want to do what you're doing. And I'll ask them, what do you think I'm doing? Because I don't know what they think I'm doing. Maybe they think I'm surfing the web or something all the time. They say, well, I want to write, I want to speak, I want to lead pilgrimages, you know, and that type of thing that you're doing. So I ask them

the question, well, what are you writing right now? And I say, oh, I'm not. I'm not, but I think that's what I'm called to. I'm called to be a writer, which I find that's very interesting, that they're called to something they've never tried. They're called to something that they have never experienced, that they don't have any real level of passion for it. Otherwise, they would be writing, even like the silly poems and short stories I was writing as a kid. And so I say, okay, so you're not, you're not writing right now. Well, what would you write about or speak about? and they'll say, well, you know the faith. No, no, I don't know what that really means.

Be more specific. What area are you talking about? What was you write about? And they will say to me, I don't know. But I just know I'm called to be a writer about the faith. Now, that tells me something right there is that they're not writing. They don't have a topic that they are particularly passionate about, but they do have a notion about being a writer.

And when I take that a little bit further, I'll hear them say things like, I can see myself in a cabin by a lake writing, or I can see myself, you know, traveling the world and writing for National Geographic or something like that. And that tells me that what they're focused on at this point, and this is generally speaking,

is they have a romantic notion about writing. travel, speaking. But I have to tell you as a writer, I've written quite a few books, I've got about 11,000 one-hour talks. Learning how to talk or writing a book, I'll say writing a book, that is really hard work. That takes a lot to write a book. You've got to have an idea. You have to have a passion for it. Research, go into it, learn to communicate, you know, shore up your English and your grammar. and you've got to know who your audience is. It really takes a lot of work. But I think that sometimes we have the idea

that we're going to be the next Hemingway because there was something about his life that, man, I can see myself doing that. You know, I'll write during the day and I'll sit by the ocean with some cognac and a cigar and call it a day and do the same thing next year and meet really interesting people.

Life isn't like that. Life happens right to you. And so there's a difference between passion versus romantic notion. Everybody has romantic notions about what they want to do, but there are those who have a passion as they are growing up or they discover it in college, and that passion drives them to go deeper into that area.

Why? Maybe God has given you that gift. You know, it's kind of like Peter and the disciples were on the boat in the middle of the night, and Jesus came walking on water, and they screamed, ah, it's a ghost. And he says, guys, it's me. It's me. Well, Peter said, if it's you, Lord, ask me to come to you on the water. And so he did. And he walked on water. The other 11 didn't. Peter was the only one that got out of the boat.

He's the only one that knew. And that's a metaphor that I would pass on to you is that if you have an inkling to be a writer or a musician or an engineer, get out of the boat. Get out of the boat and start dabbling, start researching, start getting involved. in it. Let your passion be led by what God may be putting in your heart and within the constraints of what it means to be in the kingdom of God with your behavior, the way you use your time and wisely and all of that. So here's three points that I would bring up on that. Romantic notion stirs interest in something, writing, math, sports, art, physics. You can see yourself doing it or you have seen some someone else who is passionate about it and your curiosity peaks. Okay. So the romantic notion of something caught your attention and your curiosity is piqued. Now, I can tell you this, St. Paul did not have a

romantic notion about being a missionary and being beaten and whipped and thrown into the sea and put into prison. That wasn't a romantic notion. No, he had a passion. A passion. A passion. A for sharing Christ with the Gentiles. And he says, this one thing I do, forgetting about yesterday and moving forward to the great upward call of Christ in my life, that was his passion. He didn't have just a romantic notion about travel or tent making or anything else like that. Number two, passion has already experienced the romantic notion in some way and has now started to act on it.

passion grabs your heart and occupies your time, your money, and relationships. You know, when I talk to these young people, which I do often, they'll say, how did you get into this? Teaching the Bible. And I tell them, well, first of all, I love to write and I like to talk to people, you know, about the faith. But that passion peaked for me when I was 25. And I had a problem. I didn't know how to write. I didn't know how to read the Bible as a complete story. And so that hooked me, and I pursued that with passion. And I still remember the 48 hours that I spent putting together the first great adventure Bible timeline chart as 25. And I did the whole thing in 48 hours in my mother-in-law's basement. You can't do that with romantic notion. You can do it for an hour, but not 48 hours.

the passion for this drove me. And after that, I carried that big, large Bible timeline chart with me everywhere to study. I started showing other people. People said, I want one of those. One thing led to another. I came back to the Catholic Church, and Scott Hahn saw it. And we ended up getting invited to EWTN to do a 13-week show. And we used the Bible timeline chart. And you know what? I have not veered from it because it wasn't a romantic notion. It was a passion, a passion to make God's word known throughout the United States. And you know what? I'm still doing what I did at 25. I'm doing it. I have never, ever veered from it. And I never will because it's got such a, God's got a real grip on my heart on this. And I think that's also part of success in late ministry.

is not hopping around from one thing to another or being this generalist who has a romantic notion, but going after a problem, loving people, unlocking the keys to the word of God for them to see what God has called them to. And number three, you will not find your passion and develop it as long as you are captivated by your phone in senseless data. Trivial pursuits, I promise, because you need time to grow and hone your passion. So if you have an idea and you want to see if this indeed is what God is calling you to, begin to give yourself over to it. And if you're bored after three weeks, that's not a passion.

But a passion grows. But faithfulness is mixed in with it. Once you discover what you are passionate about, there are two things that you can do at the same time. Number one, you can hone your passion, read about it, experience it, hang around people who share your passion, and most importantly, do it. Don't just study it, do it. Get involved in it, even at the level that you are if you're in your teens now or in your early 20s. But do all of this in balance with your vocation. What do I mean by that? If you're married, have children, there is no passion worth losing your marriage and your family. You will enjoy your passion when it's balanced with other important areas of life like mainly God, right, and family.

And number two, commit your passion to the Lord and begin to ask how your passion might glorify God and contribute to the body of Christ. Every gift makes room for itself in the kingdom of God. Every gift does. It makes room for itself. Now, I'll throw in a third one. Practice your passion over and over. Go deeper and deeper. Find ways of spreading it and letting other people know about it and be a part of Christ's ministry to the world.

That is what I wanted to share with you today. And I get these discussions all the time. And this is kind of the road that I bring them down. So I hope that's of some help for you, at least in, getting started or sharing with your kids or your grandkids. Let's pray. Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Lord, Jesus, we love you so much. Lord, you have called us to yourself, to live in the life of the Trinity, to live in this marvelous kingdom of yours. And Lord, everybody has a part to play. And I pray, Lord, that through today's podcast, maybe this might

stimulate someone to refocus or to change direction or to realize that their romantic notion is not what they're called to, but the passion that you put in their heart is, and it cannot be measured by dollars, or even sometimes just plain common sense. But Lord, walk with them, develop it, and help them to find their place in the body of Christ. And Mary, our mother, I ask you to pray also for us. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us, sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Love you. God bless.