The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - On Earth as It Is in Heaven with Fr. Josh Johnson

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

What does it mean for the Church to be united "on earth as it is in Heaven?" In this episode, Jeff and guest Fr. Josh Johnson respond to this question and dive into a conversation centered around race and discipleship. Snippet from the Show If we have the blessing to be proximate to Jesus in the Eucharist, how can we not be inspired to invite everyone we know to meet Him as well? Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes!

Welcome to the Jeff Kaven Show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together in living as activated disciples. This is Show 272 on Earth, as it is in heaven, with Father Josh Johnson. Thanks for joining me again this week. I'm Jeff Kavans, and on this show every week we talk about discipleship, we talk about scripture, we talk about scripture, We talk about walking with the Lord, and I cannot think of a better time to talk about walking with the Lord than the times that you are living in, the times that I'm living in. A lot of people are saying that it's kind of crazy, you know, with so much going on, it has a tendency to take us away from the things that are really important in our life, which is really walking with Jesus. In just a moment, I'm going to bring on a very good friend of mine, Father Josh Johnson. But before we do that, I just want to remind you, that on every single show, we do have show notes. And we would encourage you to get those show notes. All you got to do is text my name, one name, Jeff Kavins,

and the number is 33777, and we'll get on to those show notes. You know, my life has been kind of out there. I've been involved in ministry for over 40 years now, and I was a few followed. I was a pastor, and I left the Catholic Church and came back to the Catholic Church. And I'm involved in television, radio, podcasting, books on conferences and all that type of thing. And one of the things that I mention quite often is my family. As you know, I love my wife, Emily, and I have three beautiful girls.

And I also have three grandchildren. And I just love my family so much. One of the things that's a little bit different about my family is that two of my three daughters are African American. And you can do a whole show just on that and what people ask me. And it's just beautiful. And I love all of my girls so much. But one of the things that I have been aware of as a white American Catholic is the absence of African Americans, oftentimes in the parishes that we attend. And naturally, that brought up questions in my daughter's minds as to what is the Catholic Church?

What does it mean to be Catholic? Is there anybody like me? And so Father and I've been talking about this for quite some time now, about race and about restoring God's vision in the church. And I got to tell you, he's done a remarkable job. And I don't know of anybody else in the church today that can talk about it with such love and such authority and insight as Father Josh Johnson. So he hails from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He is the man who invented crawfish boils, and I want to welcome him to the Jeff Kaven show. Father Josh, good to have you. What's up, Jeff? It's so good to see your face again, man.

It's good to see you, too. You know, before we get into the whole topic of this, how did you come up with the idea of crawfish boils in the first place? Me and the Father were talking, God the Father, we were talking one day, and he just inspired me in prayer to go out and to dig in the mud. to start boiling crawfish. Okay, I think we're going to do a different show on that, but it does sound interesting, and I appreciate your zeal. My honesty, yeah.

You probably should tell Chef John Falls that you're friends with him down in Baton Rouge, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, I'm friends with him, yeah, as are you. Yes, and Sister Dulce. Lots of good things are happening down in Baton Rouge, and I was just down there. By the way, I got the parish. Remember the parish I was telling you I thought I was going to go to?

The bishop assigned me there. It's the Sacred Heart of Jesus, church, and I'm so excited. So next time you come, I need you to also come visit the parish as well and come walk throughout the neighborhood with me. Oh, I would love to do that. And I want to hear a little bit more about the parish in a moment. But for those of my listeners, Father Josh, I have somewhere under 1.3 million listeners. And for most of them, or for many of them, they're not really acquainted with you. you know, as far as all of your background. So tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit

about your story and how you became a Catholic priest. Yeah, so I grew up here in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. My dad is Methodist. My mom's Catholic. And growing up, I didn't know Jesus. I was sacramentalized, but I was not evangelized. And so I left the Catholic Church like you did in high school. And the summer before my senior in high school, a friend of mine, she kept inviting me to a stupid bowl conference. And I reluctantly said yes. And I went to this stupid bowl conference on June 26, 2004, and at 8 o'clock p.m. on Saturday night in Alexandria, Louisiana, Bishop Sam Jacobs, exposed Jesus Christ in the blessed sacrament for adoration. I didn't believe in the Eucharist. I thought the Eucharist was a piece of bread. But whenever he came to me, he processed out the crowd of about

5,000 teenagers came face to face with me with the Lord, I received the grace to believe that this is God. And this is the one who I have been looking for in my entire life. And I knew at that moment in prayer that I wanted to be in a relationship with Jesus Christ and the Eucharist. And I asked him what his will was for me. And the first words I perceived from the Lord during that time of prayer were, I love you. Not I used to love you before he began to live this life of sin because I was living in mortal sin. Now I'm going to love you once you go to confession, but I see you and all your mess and all your brokenness and I love you. And that love pierced my heart and I wanted more. I wanted more. Also at that time, the idea of the priesthood

came in my mind as well. And I did not like that idea because, again, I didn't want to be Catholic before this conference. But I began to go to adoration every day. I began to spend time with Jesus Christ and an adoration chapel and my diocese and I fell in love with Jesus. And I never desired to be a priest But I kept thinking about the priesthood and I kept perceiving that the Lord was invited me to give it a shot. And so because he fulfilled me, because he made me happy, I decided that I was going to go to seminary to make God happy. Not because I wanted to be a priest, but just to make him happy. And I went to seminary and eventually after being in seminary, I fell in love with this vocation of the priesthood. And I was ordained to the priesthood eight years ago. And so for the past eight

years. I've been a pastor. I've been a vocation director. I've been a procre vicar vicar, campus minister, chaplain, and I've written a bunch of books with ascension and done a much of stuff with you and your family. And I'm more in love with the Lord. You and I were saying before the break how much in love with Jesus Christ you are in the season of your life, how you're more in love now than ever. And yeah, it's just the same for me. I just, I can't get enough of the Lord. And I'm particularly excited in this new season of my priesthood because I was in a Sisi on a pilgrimage during Holy Week of this past year, which was a huge gift because I'm never going to get that opportunity again as a priest because I'm going to have

always be with a parish. But this year, I was a full-time vocation director, so I was able to go with some of my seminarians, and on Holy Saturday, here's a little secret. Most priests on Holy Saturday, we keep the blessed sacrament in our rectory. So I've never gone a day without the Eucharist. Whereas the late people go into a church, the tabernacle is empty, and they hunger and they long for the Lord. I've always had them with me.

And so this was my first time as a priest going to a church on Holy Saturday and realizing that I couldn't go back to my rectory to hang out with Jesus in the blessed sacrament. And I ached. It was so painful. And I didn't expect to ache because I knew I was going to celebrate a mass that night. But it hurt me to not be with the Lord because I just love him so much. And so I went into the forest where St. Francis of Assisi established his first hermitages. And I brought the Bible.

and it was so beautiful because the Word of God was so consoling just to, I was, it's like Psalm, Psalm 1 says, Blessed is the person, the man who meditates on the law of the Lord day and night. And so I was just meditating on the law of the Lord, the word of God and the Bible. And he did console me, particularly through the song of songs, where the bride said to her about a bridegroom, have you seen him the one who I love? And I felt like that. I was like, I'm looking for Jesus. Well, then I was drawn to First Kings, and particularly whenever Elijah could not, the earthquake came,

and the storms came, the winds came, and the Lord was like, but I'm not. not in the earthquake. I'm not in the storm, not in the winds. And I just perceive Jesus say to me, and I always say perceived because I'm not infallible. But I perceive them say, Josh, in this upcoming season of your priesthood, though I am in the Eucharist, you're not going to perceive my presence in the blessed sacrament. So still do a holy hour every day, but like, just don't expect to perceive my presence. And though I'm in the word, don't expect to perceive my presence there, I perceive the Lord say, Josh, in this upcoming season of your priesthood, you're going to perceive me in the poor who live in the geographical boundaries.

of your community, of your parish that you're going to be assigned to. Now, at this point, and he said Sacred Heart, at this point, my bishop had in that assignment is Sacred Heart. So I was like, ooh, can I trust my prayer? Because what if it's wrong? What if I don't go to Sacred Heart? But anyways, a few weeks later, the bishop called me, told me I was going to sacred heart. So I was like, oh, good, confirmation. So I'm just really excited in this new season. What's different about Sacred Heart? I know you were down in another church. Yes, I was a lot of. Yes, and I was actually there. Yeah, yeah. So, you did an incredible.

job down there. I mean, you really did. You set up a food. You set up barbershop. You set up all kinds of help for people. You did an amazing job. And I have to say that when I went to your parish down there, I was blown away because when I walked in there, there were pictures of saints that looked quite different than the pictures of saints at my parish. Yes. You know what I mean? Go ahead and tell me a little bit about that. And then tell me about the place you're going. So Holy Holy Rojure was where I was as pastor for four years, and it was flooded a number of years ago. And so we prayed together as a team of disciples. Prayer proceeds everything. And the fruit of our prayer was we discern that the Lord was inviting us to restore certain buildings on our campus and use them for the poor. And so

we created this cafe called the Philo Grace Cafe, which was a barbershop and a coffee shop. And we had lunch and dinner and a pregnancy center and a diaper bank. And we did Bible studies in there and counselors. And it was amazing. And the fruit of that work that was made up of the the body of Christ in the community was that all these people who left the church came back to the sacraments. All these people came back to Jesus Christ in confession and baptism and RCA. And so we had huge RCA programs. And it was all because of this work we were doing for the poor, which was the fruit of our prayer. And we put up diverse images of saints in the church and in the cafe. That way, whenever people came to our church or when they came to our

cafe, they would see saints who looked like them or had similar stories. So you had St. John Paul II and St. St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta. You have St. Josephine Bacitha and St. You had St. Cateri Takuta, we had saints who were young, who were old, who were singer, who were married, who were nuns, who were priests, who were brothers, all these different saints of these different backgrounds so that everyone felt like I am represented in the body of Christ in heaven. And I have the capacity to be a saint. And so that's been the particular message I believe the Lord has given me is to give the church canonizable saints and gratitude for him calling me to be a priest. And so just, I would just say this. When it comes to sacred hearts,

Sake hearts in the heart of Baton Rouge, and it's right next to the bus station. A few blocks down the other street is a woman's shelter in soup kitchen run by Mother Teresa's nuns. A few blocks, this other way is a big homeless shelter in soup kitchen for our diocese. So you can imagine the neighbor that surrounds the parish is very poor. So I'm just going to say, when I get to say we're going to pray. That's the first thing we're going to do. We're going to pray before the blessed sacrament with the staff and with the school and with the teachers and the students and the registered parishioners and with our neighbors. And I'm pretty sure

the Lord Jesus Christ is going to inspire us to do something really beautiful in that community to draw people to Jesus Christ in the sacraments through our proximity to the people in that community by ministering to the poorest of the poor. It's if we want to see supernatural fruit, Jeff, it's so simple. All we have to do is get close to the blessed sacrament, get close to the Bible and get very close to the poor and everything else comes from that. It just flows. And so it's very simple. Amen. Amen to that. Just for a moment, let me just say something to my good friends who are with me every week here. I got to tell you that Father Josh is one of my best friends. And I don't say that. I've never said that to about anybody, except Emily, I think. But he really is. He's one of

my best friends in the world. And I appreciate his heart for the poor, his heart for the Lord. and we spent a lot of time together and I am very impressed with his zeal for wanting people to know Jesus. So with that in said, Father, you are an African-American priest. Yeah. And I have two girls who are African-American,

and I have learned long ago that there is no point in me saying, I know where you are at in what they experience. in the church, with the experience in the world. So I'm going to give you that opportunity to tell a lot of us and who may not be African-American, what is the experience of an African-American in the United States in the Catholic Church?

What have you discovered? Yeah, and it would be different for everybody because we're all individual people with unique histories and experiences and stories. And so I'll give you a general experience that I hear whenever I travel the nation speaking on this topic of race and discipleship. And many black Catholics, many African Americans, they feel like they don't have a place in the church. They feel like the church doesn't care about them, that the church never reaches out to them

to invite them to have a seat at the table. And they say this because that's been their experience. They go to church and no one talks to them. after Mass, and no one invites them to Bible study, and they're never invited to the married couples retreats, or to pilgrimages, our mission trips, our rosary groups, our RCAA, they're typically feeling like they're being ignored, that they're unimportant, across the board. And what all Catholics can do is when you examine your churches, and when you examine your Bible studies, and when you examine your adoration chapels, and when you examine your rosary groups, like, look

and see who's there. And then look and see who's not there. And if you can honestly say that my Bible study doesn't have a single black person, but there are black people who live in the geographical boundaries of my parish, if you can honestly say that when I go to adoration, I never see a black person. When I look at the RSA class of 2022, I didn't have a black person in there. When I look at the pew in front of me, beside me, behind me, there's not a black person there. Then you know who the Holy Spirit's inviting you to go out and invite. Simply invite them to have a seat at the table because the Eucharist is God. The Eucharist is Jesus. And if we have this great gift of being proximate to the body and blood and soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, then how can we not

be inspired and motivated and zealous about inviting everybody that we work with and go to school with and live in the neighborhoods of it and see on the streets to just come and meet them, come and see him face to face, and trust that when we do invite people that Jesus is God, that Jesus Christ is God, and he can do more with a simple invitation to sit in his presence in the blessed sacrament to visit the tabernacle than we could ever imagine. Yeah. Well, I do want to talk about your new book, Reconciling the Body of Christ. It's actually called On Earth as it is in heaven, restoring God's vision of race and discipleship. but you've been talking a lot about reconciling the body of Christ.

Before we get into those topics there, I need you to comment on what the heck is going on in the country right now? You know what I mean by that? There's just so much going on. And with your insight, what's happening and what is God saying? God is saying that we are not imitating Jesus right now, right? Jesus Christ was proximate to people. He got very close to them.

And if you look at the racial act of terrorism that happened in Buffalo recently, one of the things that the young man who murdered the 10 African Americans in that grocery store said was that he didn't know black people. He wasn't close to any black people. And so because of that, he had stereotypes of black people and he had prejudice feelings towards black people. and then he committed this terrible act against black people because he wasn't close to them. What we must do as church is we must get close to our neighbors. We must encourage our people to get close to their neighbors,

to get close to people who live within the geographical boundaries of their communities. If we are not proximate to people, then fear, which as you say in your walking toward eternity series, Fear is false evidence that appears to be real, it will creep in. And fear will breathe distance and we will not be close. And then we will believe all these lies and we will act based on lies about other people. So it's as simple as doing what Jesus Christ did, Jeff, and getting really close to other people, right? Investing life in other people. Okay, we're going to take a break. When we come back, Father, I want to get into the book on earth as it is in heaven,

restoring God's vision of race and discipleship. And I would just say to you, my friend, listening, if you know of someone who either struggles with this whole issue or has questions about this issue, pass this on. Pass this on to them. And do me a favor. Get them a copy of the book. And maybe you can have even a study in your church about this as a launching point to do something about it because I think that reaching out and extending the love of Christ in the body of Christ being restored is going to be one of the greatest witnesses to the world if we love one another. You know, Seas Lewis said one time that he said that he wondered why Jesus said by this they'll know that you're my disciples if you love one another. He thought it was kind of

risky that Jesus would actually give the world permission to make a judgment about him based on our love for one another. And I thought that was an interesting insight of C.S. Lewis. And we'll get back to that in a moment. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. Are you ready to know St. Joseph in a personal way? Father Mark Tubbs, adjunct faculty member for the Institute for Priestley Formation,

and presenter of Rejoice and Oramus, brings you in St. Joseph's footsteps, 30 days of meditations. It may be daunting or challenging to get to know St. Joseph, but through in St. Joseph's footsteps, you will not only get to know St. Joseph, but the Holy Family as well. Walk with St. Joseph through 30 days of meditations

using St. Ignatius of Loyola's imaginative prayer. From the betrothal of St. Joseph to Mary, to the presentation, and more, you will walk through major moments in St. Joseph's prayer. moments in St. Joseph's life. To learn more about in St. Joseph's footsteps, 30 days of meditations, go to ascensionpress.com forward slash Joseph. friends we're talking about race relations and his new book on earth as it is in heaven restoring god's vision of race and discipleship you and i talked a lot about this uh we went on a

trip to poland together yeah about what three years ago so yeah before covid that was wasn't that that was an awesome trip yeah that really that really opened my eyes up to uh sister faustina and uh Auschwitz and pope john paul the second and i can't help believe that if John Paul II, we're here right now, he would be continuing to talk about this particular issue that we are facing today. Which as Holy Father, when he was alive, he spoke about it often. When he came to America, he spoke about racism quite often. And so, as has Pope Francis. And so, but I think it's a great gift that we have a saint in the Catholic Church, who was a pope, who spoke about racism in the United States of America and how it's dividing the body of Christ.

Tell me a little bit about the writing of this book, the process you went through. If my listeners haven't written a book, you have to know, it is not easy to write a book. It is very, very hard. How was the process for you? This was a six-year process. It took me six years. And this is actually the very first book I've ever written. All the other books came after this one.

And I've just been editing it and re-editing it and re-editing it. So it's been a lot of time in prayer before the blessed sacrament. a lot of time has been spent diving into scripture because I believe that within scripture we will find a foundation for cultivating unity in the body of Christ and finding the answers to fight against racism in the USA. A lot of research in the history. I delved into so much history, visited plantations, visited museums, listened to people, stories, read the lives to the Saints. And then six years after all that writing, the book finally came out. What's your main point in the book? If you were on your elevator pitch, what would you say?

If someone said, hey, I heard you wrote a book. What was it about? Yeah, so the book is ultimately about John's vision of heaven. And the book Revelation, John saw heaven. And he saw people of every race, nation, tribe, and tongue. And the invitation is for us to make our churches on earth look like the church in heaven. And if we're honest with ourselves, right now, many of our churches on earth do not look like the church in heaven. Dr. MLK said many years ago, the greatest tragedy in America today is that the most celebrated hour in America is 11 o'clock a.m. on Sunday morning. And so until our churches on earth look like the church in heaven, the heart of Jesus Christ will not be consoled. So if we want to console

its heart, let's go out and do the work to bring all people together in Christ Jesus. Before we look at some of the practical aspects of on earth as it is in heaven, I've got to ask you a question that I've heard from people and I've got I've got one foot in both communities sort of speak you know so I I guess I see I see life a little bit differently than maybe a lot of people because two of my daughters are African American but what I do hear from people out there father is that hey Jeff with all the political correctness going on in the world right now and I'm not sure how people self-identify which is a big thing now I'm a of saying the wrong thing. I'm, I don't even know how to talk to people that are different

than me because I'm afraid, I'm afraid that I'm going to say something, who knows, I could even get canceled, you know, you know what I'm talking about with this basic fear that people have. Number one, do you hear that? Number two, what's your suggestion? One, I do hear, two, where is that fear coming from? The fear's coming from who? Satan. The enemy. Right, the enemy. I mean, fear is not of the Lord. Do not be afraid is what the word of God says. And so my encouragement is for people to invest in more time of prayer so that way they can listen to the Father, speak to them in the Word of God. And the followers speak to them through Jesus Christ who said in Scripture, go out and make disciples of all nations. The word nations

is translated from the Greek word ethnos, which means ethnicities. And so Jesus Christ is saying go do it. And so if he says, go do it, then we have to do it. Just like he says, we have to feed the poor and give drink to the thirsty. He says, go make disciples of all ethnicity. And so am I going to listen to Satan's voice that's speaking lies into my head and causing fear, or am I going to listen to the voice of Jesus Christ, who is very clear, and he says, all ethnicities. And that's what the apostles did in Acts 2 when they received the Holy Spirit. They went out to all people. And it wasn't easy, and they were persecuted.

And so if we're persecuted, isn't that what happened to the saints? Weren't the saints martyred for saying the wrong thing at times? Yeah, okay, so if you get martyred, you're going to be a saint. I want to go to heaven. I want to be a saint. And so you can obviously study and you can read books and you can learn things that you don't know, but you're probably going to say the wrong thing because you're not perfect. You're not, you're not, you are the body of Christ, but you're not Jesus Christ fully.

So you're going to mess up. And so you have to get over your pride and be open to making mistakes and being corrected because we're all in need of continual reformation in our walk toward eternity. I make mistakes all the time. I say the wrong thing and I go back and I apologize and I repent and I try to make it right. And so, but I don't allow the possibility of making mistakes, prevent me from sharing the joy of the gospel. Right. I like what you're saying, and that is, you know, scripture says perfect love casts out fear. If you walk in love, you don't have to worry about fear. And love shows. Love comes to the surface.

And I think most people can, they can detect love in you when you approach them and you are sincere and you love them and your goal is to bring. bring people to Christ and reconciliation in the body of Christ. But here's one of the things I want to really caution people about, and that is, your book is very good, and your book is very practical and very concrete. And one of the tendencies that I have seen in the body of Christ is that books can become entertainment, or we can become knowledge hoarders. In other words, we've got all kinds of books. We really love them.

We got CDs. We watch television. We listen to radio and so forth podcasts. And we move on to the next one. But we don't actually do what we read. It was like, oh, Father Josh wrote a cool book. You should get it. Why should I get it? Because it's a cool book. You want something more than a cool book, don't you? Yeah, I want people to be inspired to console the heart of Jesus by fulfilling the great commission to go out to the people in their neighborhood and invite people to Jesus. One of the things that I did recently is I reached out to the staff at Sacred Heart, and I say, can you please send me a map of the geographical boundaries of the land of Sacred Heart? So I can start praying over the whole neighborhood, all the neighborhoods that are in the boundaries of Sacred Heart. There's some really rich neighborhoods, some really poor, some middle class, in between. I want to pray for all the people.

I want to know where the Lord is inviting me to go serve because Kenan Law says that I am responsible for everybody who lives in the geographical boundaries, not just the registered Catholics, the Baptist, the Protestants, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Jews, the atheists, the gnostics, the nuns. I'm everybody who lives there. I'm called by the Holy Spirit to go out to them. And not only am I called to do that,

but all of our parishioners who are registered are also called to do that. They're called to look at the map and say, what neighborhoods are in? my boundaries, and then literally start praying for them first because prayer always precedes action, pray for them, spend time in prayer with the blessed sacrament, with the rosary, with scripture, and then go out. Like literally look at your land and go there. Like a lot of times people spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on these like international mission

trips, which I support. They are good. I'm all about the both end. But then they ignore the neighborhoods that surround their parish. I'm going to call to the both end. If you're going to go on a big international mission trip and you're going to spend $8,000 raising money to do that, then you should at least spend a few weeks in the neighborhoods around your church and go out to them, walk throughout them, and invite people to Jesus. That's what I was going to ask you to do. There's two, or to talk about, there's two things. One, what can the parish, the parish staff, the priest, the deacons, the lay faithful, what can they do practically? What can the leadership of the church of the parish to do practically here to get this going, to get the ball rolling in their particular

area. That's number one. What can the leadership do? So number one is when you go out to the neighborhoods as a priest, as religious, as DRE's youth ministers, and meet your people who you're responsible for their salvation. Get to know them. Get to know the bride. It's like a relationship. And find out what would be a conducive Bible study for your bride. Find out what would be conducive times for missions and for retreats and for RCAA. But get to know your people and your land and then invite them to participate in a small group Bible study.

Why a small group? Because that's pretty much what Jesus Christ did. Remember, the disciple is the one who imitates the master, imitates the teacher, right? And so we are invited to imitate the work of Jesus. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever. And so he focused on the 12,

and within the 12 of the 3. And so we too can go out to our neighborhoods and just focus on three houses, our focus on 12 houses. And that's it. for a season. And after you've cultivated a Bible study with them, then invite them to go and do a Bible study with 12 of their neighbors. And then they would do a Bible study with 12 of their neighbors. And all of a sudden, supernatural fruit happens. And all these people

are doing Bible studies with people that they know because they go to school with them, they go to work with them, they grow up with them. And they're drawn into the church. Now, number two, when they're drawn to the church, Jeff, is the church going to be a welcoming environment for them? And this is where we have to look at our artwork. And we have to look at our stained glass windows. We have to look at, we have to listen to our homilies. Are my homilies going to inspire them to want to stay? Am I going to preach about things that are relevant in their lives and apply them to the gospel? Or am I going to ignore what's happening in my, in my neighborhood? People, one of the gifts about parishes is they are rooted in the geographical boundaries.

And so I think one of the downfalls of doing like online masses is my online community, I can't talk about what's happening in my neighborhood because they're like, what, neighborhood is Gardier or Valley Park or whatever. They don't know that because they're in California. But whenever we are rooted in our boundaries and we know what's happening, well, someone got shot at the grocery store that's in my boundaries, right? And so in my mass, I can offer up in the intercessions for that family who's suffering right now because they lost their loved one who just went to the grocery store and is now dead, right?

So to make sure that the message that is being proclaimed from the pulpit is going to resonate with all the people in the land. Tell the stories of the diverse community of saints. St. Juan Diego, if you have Hispanic parish, tell the story of St. Joseph's King Bakita if human sex trafficking is an issue in your parish. Tell the story of St. John Paul II. If many people lost their mothers in that parish,

or St. Martiniporres, if many people are fatherless in your community. Make it relatable. Use the saints, use the scriptures to draw them in and have artwork and statues and stained glass windows that represent the community that you're serving. And when they come, invite them to participate then in leadership roles,

pastor or council, finance council. Why? Well, because those are the councils that make decisions that affect where the parish is going to go. And if those voices aren't at the table, then sometimes really good people with really good hearts make really bad decisions that affect people negatively, and they didn't even intend to do it. but because they didn't listen to other people who it could potentially negatively affect, those voices weren't heard, then the kingdom of God is not established.

It's not built. A civilization of love is not happening. So they're very simple things that we can all do. And then when we do this, Jeff, then we begin to collaborate with these brothers and sisters in Christ. We begin to pray with them, cultivate their charisms, their gifts, their resources, their talents. Then we could collaborate with them to address whatever issues are happening in the world, in society, because the church is supposed to transform the world. But unfortunately, we're living in a society right now

where the world is having a bigger impact on the church than the church is having on the world. And if we can come together with every member of the church, with every carism, with every insight, with every experience, with every gift and resource, then we can transform injustices, whether they are racial injustices, or whether they are certain political injustices,

or whatever it might be, we can transform them because we're all working together as the one body of Christ. You know, you talk about working together, and I love that. A couple things. One is I hear you, and you, I'm asking for, okay, what's the solution? And you're not giving me this sort of this social solution out there of step one, step two, step three. It's really getting back to the body of Christ.

It's getting to loving Christ and serving Christ. And it's like, do what you're supposed to do. Just do what you're supposed to do, and it's going to work out, you know? One of the questions that I wanted to ask you, because you hear it so often, but I want to hear your response to it, because white people oftentimes will say this. But I know enough in my own family, in my own experience, that it doesn't fly real well. And that's when I say to someone, I don't see color. You've heard that? You've heard that before, right?

Oh, I've heard it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's coming from a good place. Hey, Father, I love you. of it. Yeah, I want you to know, I don't see color. What do you think I'm saying? And what do you think the answer to that really is? And what impact does that have on your average African American, you know, in the country? And I know it's coming from a good place. What they mean is I don't negatively judge people based on their color. That's what they're trying to say. But when you say

I don't see color, I can, I probably respond. I can tell because your Bible study is completely white. and your church's parish, a reddish of parish is completely white. But I've seen your neighborhoods that surround your church, and I've seen a lot of black people are Asians, are Latinos. I've seen a lot of people of different ethnicities,

and they're not here. And the reason why is because you didn't see color. But when we do see color, we recognize who's here and who's not here. And whoever's not here, that's who the Lord wants us to simply go out and to invite. And so it does way more damage than good. Again, I think we should be a little more explicit

in our words and say, father, I don't discriminate based on color. I don't have stereotypes that are negative based on colors. That's cool. But to say, I don't see it. You're saying, I don't see something God created. God created you a man, Jeff. That's like you're saying, I don't see gender.

No, I see gender. I see male and I see female. I don't see age. No, I see age. And if there's an old lady walking, I'm going to accommodate her more than I'm going to accommodate a 21-year-old. Like, I see age. I see gender.

I see color. And we should all see that. Yes. No, I love that. I think that that's really good. You know, and some of my, the friends I have in family, when I would say, you know, something like that, for a discussion point, I don't say that. I don't say I don't see color. Because when I, well, I did a couple times. And the answer that I got back was, you don't see color, then you don't see me. Yeah. I am black. What do you mean you don't see me? I see you, you're white, you know. And I think your answer was really, really good there. You know, and we're getting down to the end of this, but I do have one more question because your book, you know, and looking through that and reading it, you're very, you're very, very big into the body of Christ and very big into what's going on in heaven.

And there's all kinds of people in heaven, all kinds of colors in heaven, and all kinds of backgrounds in heaven. But, you know, you and I are dealing today with a society that has almost a religion of radical individualism. Yeah. Radical individualism to where the new, the new trinity is me, myself, and I, and the individual could stand up and say, I am the truth. I am the way. I am the life. And what you are saying in your book is, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. We're getting back to family here and specifically the Trinity, right? Yeah, we absolutely, we need each other. We were created for communion. We were created in the image of a God who is Father and Son and Holy Spirit. And so I need you, Jeff, and you need me.

And God has created us in such a way that even when we are baptized, he doesn't give me every gift and every supernatural charism. He only gives me a few. Because if I had every gift in the body of Christ, I wouldn't need to work with you. I wouldn't need to collaborate. I wouldn't need to listen to you, to pray with you. But because I've only been given two or three, I have to abide with you and in addition to you with everybody else. Because if I don't, it's kind of like, do you remember that show,

which maybe it's not a great show, Power Rangers? Did your girls ever watch that growing up? Yeah, sure. All right, so there's the different Power Rangers. The only way that the big robot dude, whatever he's called, could, like, come, like it would be like the red and pink and the blue, whatever they're called. I don't know. But with our powers combined, no, that's Captain Plan.

But anyways, they would put all their things together, and then that's whenever the big robot would come and fight the big monsters. If any one of them wasn't together as a team, then the robot wouldn't come, and the monster would destroy them. So they all had to link up together, even if they were mad at each other, even if they didn't understand each other, even if they didn't agree with each other, they knew they needed each other.

And that's how it is in the church. There's many people with different personalities, in different temperaments, different experiences. Some are going to be naturally drawn to, and others we're not. But regardless of whether I'm naturally drawn to you or not, I must abide with you. I must enter into an intentional relationship with you because if I don't, if I reject a member of the body of Christ on earth,

then I'm rejecting Jesus Christ forever in heaven. There is no Jesus. There's no such things I can have a personal relationship with Jesus and not the body of Jesus Christ. with Jesus, it's all of Jesus or none of Jesus. Yeah, there's no, there's no taking Jesus to Vegas. He's got to have the whole family there. That's right.

That's really good. Okay, so let me ask you this one last one. I like to, if I talk to someone, I want to ask you, what would you have said finally two minutes after we end this interview? And you think to yourself, oh, I wanted to say that. What was that? I would just say the most important thing that I can always say is that the very first mandate that Jesus Christ gave to the apostles after their ordination was to sit, watch, and pray.

To sit, to watch, and to pray. And so I just want to really encourage our listeners to prioritize their relationship with Jesus because from our relationship with God will follow our ministry. St. Catherine Drexel was rooted in two hours of prayer a day. and the fruit of her prayer was all the beautiful works of racial justice that she did in the United States of America. Mother Teresa was also rooted in two hours before the blessed sacrament, and the fruit was all of her beautiful works that she did in Calcutta. John Paul II was also rooted in intentional time before the busted sacrament.

Their fruit was he took down communism. So the greatest gift that you could offer me as my brothers and sisters in the body of Christ is to pray and to cultivate your relationship with Jesus. and to trust that from your relationship with Jesus, he will inspire you with a particular work, the one thing he's inviting you to do. You can't do it all, but there's one thing he wants you to do

to cultivate unity and the body of Christ, and the only way you're going to know is if you do two things. One if you pray and two, if you buy my book at Ascentia Press.com, I'm joking. You don't have to buy my book. You can just read the Bible. The Bible's enough.

The Bible is enough. No, I was just going to say, where do they get your book? And that is at ascensionpress.com, right? Yeah, so we have it at Amazon. and also on Ascenshippress.com. If you go to sitchipress.com slash on earth, you can find the book there. And if you go on Amazon.com, type in on earth as it is in heaven, Father Josh Johnson, and you'll find it there as well. And you also have a podcast on Ascension. I got an app just yesterday.

I was looking at an app. And your podcast is ranked pretty high. There's a lot of people listening to you. What's the name of your podcast? And where can people find it? Yeah. So the podcast is called Ask Father Josh. And you can find it on Google Play, Spotify, iTunes, and any other podcast formats, and then we have the Ascension Presents YouTube show, a Q&A show, the Ask Father Josh show, and you can find that on YouTube. So, and then if you ever want to visit it, come visit me at Sacred Heart

in Baton Rouge. Oh, I know, and get a little crawfish. You know that you're going to do a great job at that parish. We're all going to pray for you that God will use you in a powerful way. And I know your time is going to be precious, so you're not necessarily going to be flying around all over the place, you know,

speaking here and there, but if people do want to get in touch with you in some way, we can put that contact information in the show notes, whether they want you to speak about your new book on earth as it is in heaven, or how to create a family-oriented crawfish boil. I know you're open to both of those. That's the most important thing. Yes, yes, and I know that's probably your next book. In fact, we might do that together because I do like crawfish boils. Father, will you close us out and pray and pray? These, you know, all the people that are joining us today are my friends. We've been together now for years. We jogged together. We're in the car together.

We cook on the back porch together. We just, we're good friends. And I would appreciate it if you would pray for the people that participate in my show every week and pray for them regarding this topic that we've been talking about. Yeah, I would love to. Thank you. Yeah. In the name of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit, God, we just thank you so much for inviting us into the homes of your beloved sons and daughters, for inviting us to participate with them on their walks or their jogs, their runs while they're in the kitchen, at home, at work, in their car. What a gift it is to be with the people that you love so much, that you desire so much, that you long for so much, Father, and you've invited us, me and Jeff, to be with them for this time. We're so grateful.

We're so grateful for them for who they are in your eyes. God, I ask that you give them the grace to see themselves the way that you see them, to know themselves, that you know them, to love themselves the way that you love them. So that in receiving your gaze and your delight and receiving and receiving your love, they can be inspired by your love, father, to imitate Jesus Christ and to go out and share your love with everyone,

with everyone who lives within the geographical boundaries, who works within the geographical boundaries, who studies within the geographical boundaries of their communities. May they be inspired by the witness of Jesus to be the hands and the feet and the voice and the eyes of our Lord Jesus Christ, to share the love of Jesus Christ with their neighbors and to invite their neighbors and coworkers and classmates, to invite their family and their friends and even their enemies

to encounter Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Father, we trust that nothing is impossible for you and that you, you, Father, through them, you can form a new generation of canonizable saints that you through them can build up a civilization of love that you through them can help their church communities look like the church that St. John, the beloved disciples, saw in his vision of heaven,

people of every race, nation, tribe, and tongue. God, help all of us to console the heart of Jesus. so that we can abide in this beautiful communion with Jesus and His Spirit and you, Father, on earth as it is in heaven. We ask this prayer, Heavenly Father, through our Lord Jesus Christ, your son, who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, God forever and ever. Amen. Our Lady Queen of Peace, pray for us. Amen. Thank you, Father, so much for.

joining us today. And just a quick note, a big thank you to the, from the Propa Dudes. You were up here. Yeah, the Propadoos. Oh, yeah. They're great. Yeah. You spoke to our Propa Dudes, we call them. That's the spiritual year. 16 of them. And they just loved listening to you. And they learned so much. And I learned so much from them. So tell them, thank you. I was so inspired by their witness and by Father Floater and by you. And thank you for your generosity. And tell your daughters, I love them as well, as well as your grandkids. I enjoyed having pizza with y'all. And, yeah, y'all, really, Jeff is a great disciple of Jesus Christ.

And what's beautiful about Jeff is that he is a disciple on camera and off camera, on stage and off stage. And I think that's a very beautiful gift for the church to have people like Jeff who are fulfilling the demands of discipleship. And he's walking the walk. So he's not just talking to talk. I know he talks a lot on the podcast, but he's living it and it's beautiful. Well, I appreciate that. Speaking of talking a lot, my dear friends, I want to invite you also. Every single morning, I'm with you on Hallow.

It's a cooperation with Ascension Press and Hallow. And I am part of a team. Jonathan Rumi is reading the gospel every day. And then I come in with a devotion, five to seven minutes, try to make it practical, try to make it real. And, you know, just digging down deep into the Word of God and trying to give you some fresh bread every day. not the Eucharist, but fresh bread. And if you want to get in on that,

you can go to hallow.com forward slash Jeff Kavens. They give you, I believe, three months free just to try out a slice, see if you like it. All right, so I look forward to seeing you next week and talking to you next week. It's so good to be with you every single week. And write me, The Jeff Kaven Show, at ascensionpress.com.

If you have any ideas, any questions, any insights, anything you want to pass on to Father, Just go ahead and do it. You have a great week. God bless.