The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Real Answers for Real Suffering

Episode Date: August 5, 2022

Is there an answer to suffering? We all experience suffering in different forms and to varying degrees. So, how do we respond to it? What does it mean? In this episode, Jeff dives into the answers for some of the big questions around suffering. Snippet from the Show The answering to your suffering is found in Jesus’ suffering Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes!

Welcome to the Jeff Kaven show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together in living as activated disciples. This is show 281, Real Answers for Real Suffering. And welcome again, my friend. Thank you for joining me. As we every week get together like this to talk about disciples. and reading the Bible. We talk about walking with Jesus, and today we're going to talk about real answers for real suffering. We're going to get into that. I'm going to give you some just some encouragement that I don't think I've ever given on any of my shows before that might help you in dealing with suffering in your life right now, no matter what you are going through, no matter your state in life. Speaking of that, this last week,

a big shout out to all of my friends that I met at the Napa Institute in Napa Valley. And that was an amazing event. I went there. I gave the first keynote. And then Steve Green and I did a one-hour show for EWTN. And it was about the Bible. Now, if you don't know who Steve Green is, Steve Green is the president of the Museum of the Bible in Washington.

And he's also the CEO of Hobby Lobby. and we have become good friends. I'm on the board there, and we just had a great discussion. So look out for that on EWTN, on demand. In fact, I think a lot of the talks are going to be on EWTN. They certainly were there taping everything. And I gave a talk, the first one, and I gave the talk on the charygma on proclaiming the gospel.

But I mentioned Napa Institute, because, you know, when we think about suffering, so often we think, well, it only happens to people who, you know, things are just not working out, they don't have enough money, they have bad health, and so forth. And one of the things I discovered is I was walking around the grounds out there at the Meritage was that many people, whether they have money or not, struggle with suffering. And I had several people come up to me out there who I know are doing very well in life as far as finances and their vocation. And they were struggling with something in their life, whether it was physical or whether it was a situation in their life and had just some marvelous conversations with people.

So I want you to know, my friend, that suffering is real. And we're going to hit that head on today. I want to talk to you about that. Before we get into it, just a couple of notes, put it on your calendar next June, June 2003. Put that on your calendar because not too long from now, it's going to open up. What am I talking about? Well, next year in June, Father Mike Schmitz and I are going to be leading a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. That's next June. So just block it off on your, on your calendar, and keep looking at my website, jeffcavens.com, under pilgrimages. Anytime now, the information will be up there as far as

registering, getting your name in. And when it opens up, it, will go quick. So just pay attention to that. Also, got a lot of feedback from you that you're also listening on a daily basis on Hallow. And I'm doing the daily reflection with Jonathan Roomy on Hallow every single day. And if you're interested in doing that, you can just go to hallow.com forward slash Jeff Kavans, and they'll give you three months free, just like that. And some of the things I'm going to be sharing with you today about suffering are from my book, When You Suffer. get that about anywhere. So let's get into this a little bit. Okay. I want to lay a little bit of a foundation because suffering is hard. Life is hard. Sometimes marriage can be hard. Raising children can be

hard. And it's all complicated by by physical problems that people have or problems at work or problems with their children or emotional difficulties. And so for a lot of people, they, you know, they would conclude life, life is hard. at times. It really is. We've got good times. Don't get me wrong, but most people would say that life is difficult, you know, and from time to time you get that reprieve and everything's just going absolutely great, and then you turn the corner and phone rings or whatever, and there you are again. I want you to know you're not alone. You're really not alone. And I have learned in my life with physical suffering and moral suffering of the heart that I can live a joyful life. I can live a

happy life. And happiness is not dependent upon the way I feel physically. It's not dependent upon what's going on at work. I can be happy no matter what. So I want to lay a quick foundation. And then I want to get into some things about the Holy Spirit in your suffering and what the Holy Spirit's trying to do in your suffering and a few other things that I have put down. If you want the show notes, by the way, just text my name, Jeff Kavens, to the number. 3-3-7-7-7. Jeff Kavens has to be one word. 33-77 will get you on the list.

Okay, so when we talk about suffering real quickly, and if you've heard this before, it'll do you good to hear it again. There are two different kinds of suffering. There's physical suffering, and I know that a lot of people are going through that right now. There's physical suffering. That's a broken arm, that is cancer,

that is having a problem with, your spine. It's having COVID, whatever it might be. That's one kind of suffering. And then there's another kind of suffering. And it's called moral suffering. And it's when the soul hurts. It's when you have been betrayed or you are fired or someone said something about you or you lost somebody in your life. And the Old Testament is filled with examples of suffering, whether it be physical suffering or whether it be the moral suffering, particularly moral suffering in the Bible. There's the danger of death all throughout the Bible. There's the death of a child.

There's infertility over and over. There's the longing for the homeland of Canaan. There's mockery, scorn, loneliness, and abandonment. There's difficulty understanding why the wicked are prospering. And the unfaithfulness of a friend or a neighbor, it just goes on and on in the Bible, where we run into people who are struggling with either physical suffering or moral suffering. And Christ had compassion on people with both types of suffering. And can think of people who were physically in need.

And I think of the Cyro-Fonnesian woman who had a demon-possessed daughter. That's moral suffering. Hello. That's a heavy weight bear. And she went to Jesus with that. and she actually found an answer in Christ when she went to the Lord. So there's two kinds of suffering, but then there's two different types of suffering. There is temporal suffering, and that's due to the consequences of sin, suffering,

illness, death. And so we have this temporal suffering, and then there's also another type of suffering that John Paul, the second, calls definitive suffering. and he says in his booklet called Salvifici Dolores, you got to get a hold of that, he says in there, man perishes when he loses eternal life. And he goes on and he talks about how the only begotten son was given to humanity primarily to protect man against this definitive evil and against definitive suffering. Now, definitive suffering is to be without God.

in hell forever and ever and ever. And so Jesus has dealt with our definitive suffering by employing physical suffering and moral suffering and loving us and giving up his life for us. And inevitably, men and women are going to ask the question, why? Why is their suffering? And of course, that is due to original sin in the battle that we now face in life. but it was also suffering that was the answer. You know, suffering is a problem that we face. It's not the real problem that we have. That's sin, the enemy.

But Jesus has defeated death hell in the grave, and it is through his suffering that he has given meaning to our suffering. In fact, one of the most interesting things that Jesus did related to your suffering and what you're going through right now, my friend, is in Luke 24 on the Amas Road, when you have these three people walking on the Amas Road and they were very, very disappointed, disillusioned. They were without joy.

They were without hope. They were suffering. And what is interesting is that these men were walking down the road of despair complaining to Jesus about Jesus. They said, we had hoped, we thought he would redeem us, and he has been killed, crucified. And they say he's not in the tomb, but we have no idea where he is, really, or where they took his body. And what Jesus did there on the Emmaus Road is incredible.

He comes up and he walks with this couple, and so there's these three now. And Jesus is asking them, hey, you know, what's going on? And they basically say to him, are you the only one around that doesn't know what's going on about Jesus? of Nazareth. We thought he was the Messiah. He died. And Jesus, of course, reveals himself to them in the breaking of the bread. But prior to that, he gives one of the most, well, probably the greatest Bible study ever on suffering. What he does is he goes into the Old Testament and he teaches these people that are walking away from Jerusalem on the Amas Road. He teaches them what? In the Old Testament and explains how the Christ should suffer and enter his glory. And now, when Jesus rose from

the dead, he could have gone to a lot of different people. I like to kid around and, you know, tell people that if I were the one that had died and rose from the dead, I would have gone straight to Caiaphas's house and just, you know, kind of said, who? It's me. Wake up. And I would have done something like that. But Jesus didn't. He went to who? He went to some average everyday people like like me and maybe like you and what did he do he opened up the old testament and he explained how he had to suffer and how he entered in to his glory okay so the answer to your suffering is found in jesus suffering okay we'll get to that in just in just a little bit here we'll get to that but i want to talk just for a moment about the holy spirit's role in all of this now

Paul said something really important about suffering in Colossians 124, and I'm going to blend this with the role of the Holy Spirit in your suffering. What Paul said is he said, I rejoice in my suffering for your sake and I fill up in my body, that which is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. So that begs the question, right? What's lacking in the sufferings of Christ? And the answer is nothing, nothing. St. Augustine says, the thing that was lacking was the participation of the mystical body of Christ. That's you and me. We get a chance to participate in the sufferings of Christ. John Paul II, he was looking at that question too. You know, what's lacking? And he said nothing, but that you might come to know Jesus

in his love for you. He has made room in his suffering for you to participate. Now that opens up a whole another chapter, doesn't it, about your participation in the sufferings of Christ? Why would he allow us to do that? Why would he permit us to do that? Because he knows that there is no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend. And we want to know what the love of God is like, but we don't want to participate in the greatest act of love in the world, which was the cross.

Yet Jesus says, I love you so much. Not only did I die for you, I'm going to let you experience a little bit of this so that you know and taste the love I have for you. And so he makes room in his suffering for us to participate. And that is why some of the saints like St. Therese of Lizzou and others, they would make those comments like, oh, Lord, you love me so much, you allowed me to suffer. man, I never got that before until I came back to the Catholic Church and started studying seriously the scripture and the early church teaching. And I found that many of these saints knew it. They knew they had an opportunity to participate in the suffering of Christ, that they didn't have to just have a broken leg or a broken heart and lay there and say, well, you know, if you just wait long enough, something good's going to come out of it, that's not the Bible. that's not the Bible at all. But the Bible teaches us over and over and over, like Paul says to the Romans, and I'll put these in the show notes for you. We know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. Hebrews 12, my son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by him. You can go on and Paul says to the Corinthians, 2 Corinthians 1.5, for as we share a Bible, abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ, we share abundantly in comfort too.

He also said to the Romans, we are fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us. And of course, Peter, you want to read a good letter in the New Testament on suffering. It's First Peter. And he says, this is First Peter 413, rejoice insofar as you share Christ's sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. He also says in First Peter two, for to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, get this now, leaving you an example that you should follow in his steps. He committed no sin, no guile was found on his lips. When he was reviled, he did not revile in

return. When he suffered, he did not threaten, but he trusted to him who judges justly. And so he goes on in 1. Peter 419 and says, therefore let those who suffer, according to God's will, do right and entrust their souls to a faithful creator. It goes on and on. And I'll put those in the show notes for you there. Okay, let's take a break when I come back. I want to talk about the Holy Spirit's role in making sense out of suffering in your life. And then I want to share with you some never shared before practical tips on how to deal with the suffering in your life and get as much out of it as you possibly can. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. Okay. So I'm going to come talk to you about morality. Oh, there's a real conversation.

starter. Oh, I was just an ex-munk. Oh, he can relate to me. So in my work, I'm a professor and I'm a translator. I take ideas, I digest them, I communicate them. I've read the text, thousands of pages of Thomas Aquinas, texts in other languages. That's my job to digest. And I just wanted to go into the treasure trove, pull out the things that I had discovered, cut them out from all the scholarly stuff, don't get caught up in all of the, you know, details, right? The people of God deserve to have this kind of content. The truths of Catholic morality are meant to transform your life. And so I wrote this book precisely to show that these truths are not just truths that we memorize, but they're truth that we live. So to find out more about this universal call to holiness

that is the vocation of all Christians, check out my new book, Made by God, made for God, at ascensionpress.com slash Catholic morality. We're back. We're talking. We're talking today about suffering and real answers for real suffering. And again, I'll just reiterate, my dear friend, that if you are suffering right now, which I know so many are, I want you to know you are loved and you are thought of. and I'm thinking of you today when I put this show together. I had a number of other things I wanted to share actually

and I just kept, I prayed about it. I kept coming back to this feeling like the Lord wanted me to share about suffering because it is hard, but there's answers and there's fruit and there is happiness and joy in the midst of all of it. I know I went through something years ago with my neck, ended up having a fused neck

and I had nine months of just agony. And it was in the middle of that whole thing that I saw so much of what I wrote in the book When You Suffer. Okay, so the Holy Spirit's role all throughout this process of dealing with suffering in your life. The Holy Spirit is trying to replicate Christ's life within you. That is what the Holy Spirit does. The Holy Spirit is trying to replicate Christ's life within you. And the Holy Spirit is pouring out the love of God.

into our hearts. Why? That we may become like Christ. You see, one of the goals here of suffering is that we don't just do it because there's merit as a result of it, although there is, but suffering can become a means of becoming like Jesus in the way we love, in the way we see life, and the way we sacrifice for others and put others before ourselves. It's a means of coming to know in more depth and more detail the salvation history plan that God has for the entire world. And I really like what John Paul II says in Salvifici Dolores. That is his document on human suffering.

He says in there, for suffering cannot be transformed. and changed by the grace from outside. That's an interesting statement, isn't it? I'll say it again, for suffering cannot be transformed and changed by the grace from outside, but from within. And Christ, through his own salvific suffering, is very much present in every human suffering and can act from within that suffering by the power of the whole. Holy Spirit of truth is consoling spirit. And so as you are going through the suffering in your

life right now, whether it's physical or moral, either one or both, a lot of people deal with both, the Holy Spirit is a consoling spirit. And the Holy Spirit is trying to replicate Christ's life within you. And it was Jesus who gave up his life on the cross for the world. He God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Whoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. And the Holy Spirit is trying to replicate this in your life. And so prayer is going to become a very important tool in the midst of your suffering. And you can pray in the Spirit, as Paul talks about, praying in tongues, praying in the Spirit, allowing the Holy Spirit to pray through you.

concerning your situation. But here's a good question. Where do you go when you suffer? Where do you go when you suffer? And the answer is prayer. That's where you go when you suffer. Prayer. By prayerfully offering to God what is difficult, you will attain the main purpose of prayer, which is to unite your will with the will of God and to have the life of Christ replicated in you. And so by prayerfully offering to God what is difficult, you're suffering, you're going to attain something. And that is you're going to attain the likeness of Christ to be like Christ. And it's going to come down this road, the way of the cross.

Pick up your cross and follow me if you want to be my disciple. You know, you've got to wonder about that, don't you? You know, that scripture when it talks about, if you want to be my disciple, pick up your cross and follow me. Well, why would you pick up the cross if you want to be a disciple? How come you can't just be a disciple and learn a lot, you know, and teach a lot? Why do I have to pick up a cross if I'm going to be your disciple? Well, the answer to that is that when you pick up your cross, you're going to be your disciple. get to know him. You're going to get to know Jesus if you pick up your cross because you're

going to be united to the most difficult thing that's ever happened in the history of the world, and that is the death of the Lord for the sins of the world. So what transforms sufferings and makes them endurable and even sweet? What is it? What is it that transforms suffering in our life and makes it endurable, even sweet. It is His presence. It is His presence. Therefore, prayer is the most powerful answer to suffering. Is that we go deep into prayer, into our relationship with the Lord.

The man who does not pray during suffering is trying to put the fire out by writing letters to the insurance company, okay? Put it that way. but we are called to pray exercise the virtue of perseverance suffering you know when you're in the midst of it suffering is a test of faith it really is and you're probably saying right now it is a test of faith why why is it a test of faith well because at first the suffering does not draw us closer to god but tempts us to turn away from him and to concentrate wholly on ourselves in fear or self-pity.

Now, you know that's true. I know that's true. If something comes down, whether it's physical or moral suffering, I get hit with it. The first thing I do typically is draw inward and, you know, kind of turtle up. And it's like, oh, man. And you begin to focus on yourself. It's a test of faith. It's a test of faith.

Peter Crave, who just writes brilliantly on the topic of suffering, he said, this is the worst thing about sickness, not the pain in the body, or that I'll just add that pain in the soul, but the narrowing of interest in the soul. I'll say it again, this is the worst thing about sickness, not the pain in the body, but the narrowing of interests in the soul. soul. It is as if the pain is a tyrant with a whip saying, look at me, look at me, look at me every moment. Do you pity yourself and hope that others are pitying you also? I've been there. I've done that. I'll be the first to raise my hand. I've done that before where you know, I was hurt physically and I kind of milked it for all it was worth, you know, I can get out of some things for a week or so and sit in the lazy boy chair and maybe watch TV. Yeah.

Do you pity yourself or hope that others are pitying you? Well, we need to resist introspection and begin meditation on Christ. And that's what I would suggest for you today as an older brother in the faith or even a younger brother in the faith, is that when suffering has hit you, resist the introspection, resist the temptation to go inward and live there by yourself, but begin meditation on Jesus Christ. Enter into prayer and that relationship. Don't do what Dietrich von Hildebrand talked about so often years ago when he spoke about illegitimate suffering.

Don't do that. Don't do that. Go to the Lord. So how does the Lord answer these questions about suffering? Well, we hear Christ's answer as we gradually become sharers in the sufferings of Christ. We say that again. How does the Lord answer these questions? Well, we hear Christ's answer as we, you and me, gradually become sharers in the sufferings of Christ. It doesn't come in a book. It is a call. It is a vocation. John Paul II said, come after me. And it's in the

coming after Jesus that you're going to learn and your eyes are going to be open. And it's going to make sense and you put a smile on your face. God invites us to take part through our suffering in this work of saving the world, a salvation achieved through his suffering, through his cross. And you and I are invited to take up our cross and unite it with the cross of Christ. There, the meaning of suffering is revealed. You are joined with Christ, one body. You are in Christ. And when you pick up your cross and follow him, you have a glimpse of a mystery that most people miss, and that is the love of God. So if we believe that God is all good and all wise and all powerful, then all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.

That's from Romans 828. And even our current sufferings, God works together all things for the good. for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. And that goes for your sufferings as well. So I found this little formula a while ago. I honestly cannot remember if I wrote this or just took this from a book. So if it's yours, I give you credit. But if God is all good, he wills only our good. Number one, if God is all good, he wills only our good.

If God is all wise, he knows what our true good is. Say it again, if God is all wise, he knows what our true good is. And then third, if God is all powerful, he accomplishes all that he wills. And he will do that in our lives. The only way that we can escape, the only way that we can escape all things work together for our good is our own free choice. reject his will that's how that's how you can escape all things work together for the good you can escape that you'll escape it by your own free choice and a rejection of his will not everything that happens to us is good and you know that and i know that sometimes just difficult things happen in life but

everything that happens please hear this everything that happens works for our good. God is a good God. God is all wise. God is all powerful. This all works together for the good, for those who are called by his name. So what is the worst thing that has ever happened? What is the worst thing that's ever happened in the world? Okay. We hear a lot of bad stuff on the news, but what's the worst thing that has ever happened? Deaside, the crucifixion of God. that shocking event worked for the greatest good of all the salvation of the world. If the greatest evil can work for the greatest good, then listen, my friend, then your sufferings can work for good in your life.

The goal of all of this is that God wants us to be perfect as he is perfect. right now in the midst of your suffering that is the goal be perfect as god is perfect you want to come to know his love his suffering do not run from this do not self-medicate do not blame other people do not hide yourself on netflix for days on in go to prayer spend time with the lord offer up your cross in union with his because his cross is the cross that changed the world and he He now gives us an opportunity to join him there and participate. That is an amazing. I'm going to put that quote in the show notes for you.

That was John Paul II. He says, from Salvifici Dolores, get a load of this. I think it's one of my all-time quotes. The springs of divine power gush forth precisely in the midst of human weakness. Those who share in the sufferings of Christ preserved in their own sufferings a very special particle of the infinite treasury of the world's redemption and can share this treasure with others. Ah, that's so good. So the goal of perfection is not an option for the super saints. It is the prerequisite for heaven. Nothing impure can enter heaven. God will not

compromise with your life. He will have his way with your life. The only alternative is hell. It's up to us whether we will become saints the short way or the long way. Suffering focuses us on God and brings our wills into union with his will. What isn't purified here on earth will be taken care of in purgatory. If we do not become holy in this life, we will learn it in purgatory. where it will be much more painful, so I've heard. Or else, we will never learn it, and that is called hell. And so we can be purified. We can become perfect through those things which we suffer.

Brother Lawrence once said, he's just a great, great guy. He says, sufferings will be sweet to us while we are with him, and the greatest pleasures will be without him a cruel punishment to us. I love that quote. That's letter seven in practicing the presence. Brother Lawrence, he says, sufferings will be sweet to us while we are with him, and the greatest pleasures will be without him a cruel punishment to us. Remember, the greatest achievement, the most generous and the most heroic one that touches the life of every human being, dead or living, appeared to most of those.

who witnessed it to be no achievement at all but a complete defeat. If you remember that, that the greatest achievement, the cross, the greatest achievement, the cross and the resurrection, the most generous and the most heroic event in world history the cross, the one that touches the life of every human being, the cross, appeared to most of those who witnessed it 2,000 years ago to be no achievement at all, but a complete and utter defeat and waste. So the suffering you're going through, someone might think, well, that's just a waste and what a defeat.

No, my friend, no. Pope Pius, the 12th, he reminds us those who are afflicted with the burden of appearing to be useless, that this attitude is only outwardly true. Inwardly, we are not useless. We are not. You have value, my friend. in your suffering. You have power, transformative power. You have a coin which can purchase that,

which cannot be bought. You can work with Christ and you can take your suffering. You can say, Lord, I pick up my cross and I follow you. And, Lord, I take this suffering and I apply it to my children. Lord, take it, use it. Jeff, are you saying that the Lord can't do that all by himself? Oh, he certainly can. But remember, he opened up his suffering for you to participate. Why? again so you come to know him inside job here you get to you get to know him st terrez said if we want to attain an end we must employ the means and jesus made me understand that he would give me souls by means of the cross the more crosses i met with the more did my attractions to suffering increase there's a lady who's been there huh she has been there all right well i just wanted to

share that with you this week and just encourage you a little bit about suffering and and I talk about it a lot. You know, I got a book and a number, I got a number of series and it has been the one topic that I would say it's one of the top three that has changed my life in such a big way because once you know the secret, I mean, it opens up so much and it puts a smile on your face when you know what you're doing now and I want to encourage you to do that. let's pray together shall we let's pray and take your suffering the physical suffering you're going through right now and the moral suffering and let's do what paul said to do okay remember what paul

said i rejoice in my suffering for your sake and i fill up in my body that which is lacking in the sufferings of christ what's lacking your participation why should you participate he wants you to know his love he wants you to come in contact take it out of the book it's not just head knowledge here this is real knowledge now that you have okay so let's pray in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit lord i love you so much and i thank you for the opportunity that you have given me to suffer and to know what that means to love in the midst of suffering jesus with my friends on this show today we all take what we are going through whether it's physical or whether it is moral my friend you know what it is

right just take that right now we're going to offer it up to the lord lord we take that right now and by an act of our will we offer it up to you take it lord we're joined with you we're joined with the cross we're in you lord we're in christ take that and use it lord use that for my grandchildren and you can say the same thing my friend you can just say i offer this up for and you can say that right now even if you're in the card you can just say this we offer up our suffering for and thank you, Lord, that we can become this close to you, that we get an inner glimpse of the mystery of the Trinity, the love of the Trinity in the cross.

I thank you for taking this, Lord, and using it in Jesus' name. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Remember, my friend, in the world, you're going to have tribulation. But be of good cheer. Jesus said, I have overcome the world. God bless you. forward to talking to you next week.