The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Should Catholics Attend Protestant Bible Studies?

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

What should you do if you’re invited to a Protestant Bible study? Jeff reminds us of the characteristics of a good Bible study, and also offers us seven things to keep in mind for a Catholic who attends a Protestant Bible study. Snippet from the Show “The goal of Bible study is to gain an understanding of the heart of God and His plan, not to win a theological battle.” Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes!

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show, episode 231. Should Catholics attend Protestant Bible studies? Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show.

So has anybody invited you? to their Bible study at work or in the neighborhood, and you find out that it's a Protestant Bible study? And then the first thing you do is go online and start asking questions like, should I go there? Should I be a part of that? What will happen to me if I attend?

Is it permissible? Well, let's talk about that today because that's one of the chief questions that I get via email and online social media is people asking, should I be a part of a Protestant Bible study? And I'm going to answer that for you in just a couple of minutes here. And then I'm going to give you seven points that I think are really important to consider

if you are going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study. Now, the first thing that I would say to you is that if you have not had a good Catholic Bible study, that should be the first order of business. And I would suggest to you that you get the Great Adventure Bible Study. Now, the Great Adventure Bible study is different than most studies in that it takes into consideration the entire story from Genesis to Revelation. What I've done is put together a study that will help you understand the complete narrative from Genesis to Revelation.

Now, this comes in two forms. It comes in the form of eight half-hour sessions called Unlocking the Mystery of the Bible, Bible, complete with workbook and so forth, Bible timeline chart. And then the granddaddy of them all, the Great Adventure Bible timeline, which is 24, one-hour sessions where I take you in 24 hours through the entire Bible. And it's pretty thorough. So that would be the first order of business before I can even answer that question, yes or no, should you attend a Protestant Bible study? Hey, before I tell you some of these things, I do have a number of scriptures and some wonderful citations from the catechism, and I know that you want them, so here's how you get

them. If you will simply text my name as one name, Jeff Kaven's, text it to 33777. That number is 3377. We'll get you the notes, and you'll be on the list to get them in the future. It makes it kind of easy, doesn't it, when you're driving to work in the morning or coming back in the evening and you hear something. I think, oh, I want that. I want to write that down. And you can't because you're in traffic. You shouldn't because you're in traffic.

But we did for you. Okay. So let me start off by answering this question. Should you attend a Protestant Bible study? First of all, let's take a look at what a fruitful study is. What is a good Bible study? Whether it is Protestant or whether it's Catholic, what is a good Bible study? Well, I would say that a good Bible study, number one, is a Bible study that focuses on your relationship with God, your relationship with the Lord.

Bible study is about relationship. It's about God revealing himself to you in words and deeds and you responding to God in words and deeds, in like manner. So a good Bible study is not a debate, all right? Now, sometimes they turn into debates, and some people like to do. debate, but I'm saying generally speaking, a good Bible study is not a debate. It is about relationship with the Lord. Number two, it is rooted in the church. A good Bible study takes into consideration the entire church and the body of knowledge and understanding and wisdom from the very beginning to today. So that means that we study within the context of the church,

we worship in the context of the church we live out our faith in the context of the church and so as a catholic we have a little bit of an advantage there in that we have the communion of saints so people like athenaceous and st augustine and jerome and john paul the second we have access to their experience and their understanding that's being rooted in the church and number three what makes a good bible study is a bible study that will end in you being fruitful in life, fruitful in your family, fruitful at work. As a husband, wife, mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, cousin, uncle, best friend, you will be fruitful. So those are three things that are incredibly important, three things that are incredibly important when it

comes to understanding what a good Bible study is. So the answer to the question, should Catholics attend Protestant Bible studies is no. And yes. It's no if you don't have any understanding of the Bible, no experience with the Bible, because you have no way of judging what you're hearing whether it's right or wrong. And that will be your first experience in studying the Bible, and there is, there's a slant to it. And so if you don't have any experience, in studying the Bible, I would not recommend that your first Bible study be a Protestant Bible study, not because of the people, but because of the worldview and the methodology of the study. Sola Scriptura, scripture alone, Sola Fide, faith alone, two of the pillars of the Reformation.

So the answer would be, yes, if you have a peace in your heart about joining that study, and you have some foundation. And you know, I just mentioned in the introduction there, the foundation of knowing the whole Bible through the great adventure. That's the first step for you. So I think the best is to study the Bible with fellow Catholics, but there certainly is a lot to be said about studying the Bible with others who are excited about God's Word,

especially on college campuses. and I would encourage you to be the leader and start a study. I think before I even get into these seven points to remember if you're going to be a part of a Protestant study, is why don't you start a study? You be the leader and start a study and you invite Protestants to your study. And the great adventure studies, we got a whole team that's waiting to help you put that on if you would like to. So, okay, so if you do end up participating in a Protestant Bible study, here's seven things that you need to keep in mind, okay? Number one, know your Bible, know your Bible. I mentioned about

knowing the entire story from Genesis to Revelation, but that's kind of what I mean. But more to the point for point number one is you need to know that a Catholic Bible has 73 books in it and a Protestant Bible, for the most part, has 66 books in it. One of the questions that's going to come up first is, why is your Bible, Mr. Catholic, Mrs. Catholic, why is your Bible bigger than my Bible? Why do you guys have 73 books? Why did you Catholics add seven books to the Bible? And all of a sudden you're going to be sitting there feeling uncomfortable and you can say, I didn't even know, I didn't even know how many books there were. How did you know there were 73 books? Well, they may know that there's 73 books and they are going to question you about it. Now, you might have the attitude that they took away

seven books. Now, what's the truth about this? Well, the truth is, we didn't add seven, they didn't take away seven. It really comes down to two different canons of scripture. In the early church, the church followed the Septuagint. The Septuagint was a Greek translation of the Old Testament, which had Hebrew and Aramaic. It was a Greek translation of that. And that Greek translation that the early church used had all 73. It had all of the books that Protestants don't have. The canon that Protestants started to study and to accept at the Reformation was the Jewish canon that didn't officially. have the seven books that we have in the Old Testament, that we call the Deutero-canonical

books, the second canon. Protestants call those seven books of the apocrypha. The apocrypha means false writings. Don't call it the apocrypha. It's not false writings. It's the word of God. It's inspired. It's the Deutero-canonical portion of the Old Testament. So suffice it to say that it's really important for you to understand that we have two different Bibles, and I wouldn't get into an argument with them about it. You can always talk to them outside of the study about that situation in the two canons. All right. So know that we have 73 books, number one. Number two, number two is really, really important, and that is you need to resist a tactic that is used not in a malicious way it's not in a mean way but it's it's in a it's in a way that tries to get you

to understand your flaws in your methodology and that is this resist the tactic of if it's not in the bible it's not true now this is used a lot actually resist the tactic of if it's not in the bible it's not true i remember years ago when i had a conversion experience in college I would get together at our college at a place called The Pit. And that's where all the Christians got together. And I got my Bible. I went out and bought a Bible, and I would meet with these Christians, and I'd start to ask questions.

And in the course of asking questions, they realized I was Catholic, and they would bring up these Catholic teachings like Mary, the Pope and sacred tradition and the Eucharist, right? And all those, the communion of the saints. And I would say, yeah, well, yeah, I believe that about Mary. And they would ask one question, where's that in the Bible? And without even realizing it, they suddenly confined the playing field to God's revelation, to Scripture alone, and not only that, to the English interpretation of Scripture alone. And I fell into that quite a bit. And I think, whoa, that's not in the Bible.

Wow, I didn't realize that. And suddenly, I have adopted the new playing game rules here that it has to be exactly like that in the Bible if I'm going to believe it, not realizing that there's actually a lot that's not in the Bible, that we do believe, like abortion. again, we're against abortion. It's not explicit in the Bible, is it? It's not explicit. Thou shall not procure an abortion. Like it does say in an early church document, Pirke, I vote, you should not do that in the sayings of the fathers. So I would really encourage

you to not fall into that. If it's not in the Bible, it's not true. Because you're going to leave the study and you're going to come back to your parents or you're going to come back to friends and say, I don't find that in the Bible. Therefore, I don't believe it. That is very, very, very problematic. Well, listen, let me give you a scripture here. Second Thessalonians 215. Paul talks about the scope of revelation

and what we're to respond to in obedience. Listen to what he says in Second Thessalonians 215. This is beautiful. He says, so then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us. either by word of mouth or by letter. Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,

comfort your hearts, and establish them in every good work and word. Now that's a phenomenal verse. That has two things that you need to pay attention to. One is that Paul says that you need to hold to the traditions that were taught by him either by word of mouth or by letter. So you see there that Paul talks about, he talks about the sacred tradition,

that which was verbally, orally passed on, and the sacred scripture, that which was written down. So according to Paul, the scope of study takes into consideration both the written word and the tradition. That is really important. And so if somebody says to you, well, where do you find that in the Bible?

Well, the answer is that we want to look at the full revelation. And we don't have the time right now in this particular podcast to go deep, deep into this. Maybe we will in the future. But suffice it to say, do not fall for that and suddenly come back to your church or your parents and say, what's wrong with us? Wait, I can't find that in the Bible. so you don't you definitely don't want to do that now number three the number three very important is that the second vatican council has given us three criteria for interpreting scripture and the third point here is know those three points the three points can be found in the catechism

in paragraphs 112, 113, and 114. And let me give them to you really quickly. These are important to remember if you're going to be a part of any Protestant Bible study. Number one, be especially attentive to the content and unity of the whole scripture. Different as the books which compose it may be, scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart. open since his Passover. Okay, so that first point under the three criteria, under the three criteria, the first point is be especially attentive to the content and unity of the whole scripture. Now, if you have to remember that if you're going to study Ephesians chapter two,

you have to consider all of Ephesians, and you have to consider all of the New Testament, and you have to consider the entire Bible, the entire canon. And so, So we don't take a verse out of context. If you take a verse out of context, it becomes a pretext for error. So you must be aware of the content and unity of the whole of Scripture. And that is why I say, if you don't have any experience with the Bible, learn salvation history first with unlocking the mystery of the Bible at Ascension or the great adventure with Ascension. That's why I think it's so important. The second criteria that the church gives us is read the scripture within the living tradition

of the whole church. That is so important. That gets back to what I mentioned with Paul in Second Thessalonians when he said that you should respond and be obedient, whether it's something you heard him teach or write. So you have both sacred scripture and sacred tradition. And if you want to stay out of trouble, you must adhere to the living truce. tradition of the church when it comes to interpreting the sacred scriptures. Because you see, the scriptures were given to the church within the tradition of the church. We celebrate the

word of God within the tradition of the church, and we live it out within the tradition of the church. And most Bible studies do not regard sacred tradition. In fact, it is, it's really something thing that if you bring it up, it's going to become the center of conversation. But I don't recommend that that becomes the center of conversation, but I do recommend that you keep that in the back of your thinking and don't let people suddenly bring you into the arena where the only thing that reveals truth is sacred scripture. And then the third part is very important, and that is to be, and this is in paragraph 114 of the catechism, be attentive to the analogy of faith. By analogy of faith, we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves

and within the whole plan of revelation. So what this means here is that when you are studying the Bible, you have to keep in mind that there is a coherence of the truths of the faith. So one truth cannot contradict another truth. See what I mean? So if the truth that has been revealed to the church is that Mary is the mother of God. She's the mother of Jesus, and this was established at the Council of Ephesus. If the church has revealed that, then you can't come up with an interpretation that she's not the mother of God, which I think you do know Jesus is God, and she's his mother, so she's the mother of God, right? Well, you bring that one up, you're going to have, so you're going to have some pushback. But it's important for you to know about the analogy of faith

the coherence of truths, that is important. Put that in your back pocket and study by it. All right, we're going to take a break when we come back. I have more I want to share with you about points to remember if you do participate in a Protestant Bible study. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. Imagine this. You're walking down the street and a Christian at a table with a bunch of pamphlets asked you, have you been saved? What would you do? Would you know how to respond. Hi, I'm Dr. Andrew Swafford, and I'm co-presenter along with Jeff Kavins and Ascension's new great adventure Bible study, Romans, the Gospel of Salvation. In this study, we teach you the biblical foundations for the Catholic teaching on salvation, how to explain salvation

quickly and easily to non-Christians. What St. Paul really meant by works not leading to salvation and how we can enter more deeply into Christ. Paul's letter to the Romans has been at the center of reflection, conversion, and controversy from the very beginning, and it's widely considered his greatest work. I invite you to start a small group in your home or parish and embark on this great adventure. To order, visit ascensionpress.com. All right, we're talking today about some points to consider if we're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study. Number one, before we get into the next few points, remember what I said at the beginning. I think the best is, number one, is that you gain an understanding of the intention. You gain an understanding

of the entire Bible through the great adventure. You learn the whole story. And if you learn the whole story, I got news for you. You're going to know more about the Bible than most people in the country if you know the whole story, even if it's a quick run-through of the entire story. And number two, I think that you need to always consider starting a study yourself and leading it and inviting Protestants to it. I think that that is really. important. And Ascension Press is standing by, even as I'm speaking right now, to answer your questions about that and to assist you and to help you in doing that. Okay, so number four, number four, it's important to remember that your goal is to gain an understanding of the

heart of God in his plan, not to win a debate. That is important. If you're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study, you must remember that this is about gaining an understanding of the heart of God and his plan. Another way to put it is, you want as much of Jesus as you can get. That's where you're, that's the hunger meter in your life. That's the hunger game in your life, is you want as much of God as you can get. You're not, you're not just going in there to try to get a little bit. want as much as you can get. And so you have to set your heart on understanding his heart, his heart, and his plan. And salvation history reveals God's heart and reveals his plan. And once you know his heart and plan, that provides for you a foundation on which you can trust

God. And so when you go to a Protestant Bible study, I think it's really important to make sure that your heart is moved into the direction of wanting and gaining more of Jesus. You got a hungry heart. Your Protestant brothers and sisters in the Lord, they'll see that and they respect that. Number five, this is a good one here. Number five, if you're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study, avoid, avoid meta-language. What's meta language? Meta language is the language that any discipline, whether it's golf or mathematics or hiking or camera, photography,

it's the language that people who are into those things use and it's language that is adopted that tries to explain deeper things by giving it some kind of language that the initiated understand. So, for example, if you're a hiker, and if I said to you, I'm going to go on a through hike on the Appalachian Trail, well, most people don't know what a through hike is, but those who are initiated know that it's doing the entire Appalachian Trail, right? It's called a through hike. If I start talking about a through hike, people don't, don't know. If I start talking about bicycles and I talk about an endurance bike or a gravel bike or a mountain bike. Most people don't know what I'm talking about there, but the people who are into bikes know what I'm talking about.

So avoid meta-language. Don't tell them, for example, how you meditate before the real presence of God and before the monstrance, you contemplate original justice and the consequences of concupiscence. They won't know what you're saying at all. I wouldn't say things like, during the Angelus, you were thinking about it. an apparition that confirmed your notion that our lady is in fact the mediates of all graces and therefore the theotokos is an obvious conclusion in the economy of God. They're going to look at you like, what? What planet are you on? And it's amazing how many people

that do go to church in the Catholic Church don't understand that a language. You know, I remember teaching one time about the church. was teaching about the church. And I was using words like monstrance, you know, and I got a phone call from someone after I was done teaching. And they said, Jeff, you kept using the word monstrance. What's that? And I thought, oh, my gosh, they didn't know. And I just assumed that people knew. Well, they don't. Even in the Catholic church, it's much worse if you're going to be talking to Protestants and you're using Catholic meta-language. If you say the Holy Father, they're never going to think you're talking about the pope they're going to think you're talking about

god the father and so you've got you know you've got it's like two ships going by in the night so avoid using meta language and if you're going to use metal language pause and be equipped to explain what that means and likewise they're going to have some metal language too they might talk about being washed in the blood of the lamb you think i've never heard that before washed in the blood lot of the lamb. Hmm. And typically they will talk about Jesus where you might be used to saying our blessed Lord, you know, more of a family name, our blessed Lord. They don't talk about Jesus that way. They talk about Jesus in a personal relationship with Jesus. So get to know the metal language on both sides and try not to use it as your primary way of communicating. All right. Number six,

share how you are putting your findings into practice. You know, so many times Bible studies turn into just a discovery exercise. We're looking for new truths. We're looking for interesting angles. And we're showing people what we have discovered in the Word of God, this Greek word or that Hebrew word or this custom back in the Old Testament. And all of that is great. And I absolutely love it.

But the goal of study is to do it. And so if you're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study, I think that it is incredibly important, incredibly important to put your findings into practice. Talk about how you are a doer of the word and not a hearer only. As it says in James I'll put this in the show notes, James says, but be doers of the word and not hearers only deceit. yourselves for if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer he's like a man who observes his natural face in a mirror for he observes himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like but he who looks into the perfect law the law of liberty and perseveres being no here that forgets but a doer that acts he shall be blessed in his doing and so i think in most cases they're going

to be a little bit surprised to hear a Catholic in their Bible study talking about how they're putting the Word of God into practice. In fact, take James there, James 1, 22 through 25, and memorize it. And the more you memorize, the more they're going to take you seriously. Because the currency in their study is the Word of God, Scripture alone. So start learning that and learn how to discuss it. you'd be amazed at how you impress them because most of my Protestant friends, they have memorized scripture, but not as much as you think. They have typically memorized 10, maybe 15 verses, and it sounds like they know everything, but they really don't. And I know that. I was a pastor for 12 years, so I should know a little bit about that. But make sure you are

putting your findings into practice. And then number seven, number seven, if you're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study, smile, be happy. They're not used to Catholics smiling and being happy in Bible studies. It's not a funeral. It's a relationship. Act like you're in a relationship, not just an academic exercise. Be joyful about your faith. Be excited about your faith, inquisitive. And don't be afraid of questions. And remember, you're seeking with all of your heart. And there's something beautiful and attractive about that. It really is. So let me wrap this up by saying, number one, make sure you know the whole story with the great adventure, then make your decision whether you're going to be a part of a Protestant Bible study. And if you are,

remember these seven points. And then start your own study someday and invite your Protestant friends to your study. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Lord, we love you. I ask you to give wisdom to my friends and insight and a hunger in our hearts in Jesus name. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. God bless you, my friend. Love you. Look forward to talking to you next week.