The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Suicide: Preventing and Responding!

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

Did Vincent Van Gogh really commit suicide, or is there more to the story than we think? In light of recent suicides (Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain) Jeff comes to you with a special episode on preventing and responding to suicides. Speaking from personal experience, he shares the signs that typically lead to someone wanting to take their life. He also shares ideas as to how you can respond, what the Church teaches, and practical things you can do if you or someone you know is feeling depressed.

You're listening to The Jeff Kaven Show, Episode 68, Suicide, Preventing and Responding. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven Show. I want to welcome you to a special edition of the Jeff Kaven Show. we're going to be talking about a topic that is incredibly serious, very timely. Everybody is talking about it, and it seems to be coming up in the news more and more. And we hear about it because of famous people who are taking their lives, but at the same time,

everyday people are doing the same. And we want to talk about preventing suicide, looking at the signs that there's depression, anxiety that's possibly leading to somebody wanting to take their life. And we want to look at how do we respond to this? I also want to look at what does the church teach about suicide and what are some practical things that we can do if we start to feel discouraged and depressed, or you know of somebody that is feeling discouraged or depressed. Well, of course, in the last year or so, we've heard of three very, very famous cases,

Robin Williams, who most of us are familiar with. He's made us laugh. He has entertained generations with his humor and his energy. And we also heard about Kate Spade, and maybe you own a purse that she designed. I've seen them all over the place. And then also recently, sadly, Anthony Bourdain, parts unknown. And the show, the food show where he travels around the world and seems to have the best of everything, you know, travel and travel and food and leisure and and Anthony Bourdain just recently took his life. All three, Robin Williams,

Kate Spade, and Anthony Bourdain have been a part of many of our lives. And when we hear that they took their life, of course, it shocks us at first, but then I think it kind of scares us, too, because we ask why? Why would somebody who has what we think everybody is looking for, why would they take their life? And I think that it points to something that is really true, and that is that life is more than leisure. Life is more than money. Life is more than notoriety. There's something deep inside that we need, and oftentimes we don't find it, and the solution for some is to actually take their life. I want to start off by saying that I am familiar with depression. I'm familiar with it in extended family, in friends. I have had friends commit suicide, both in high school

and as an adult. I have received that phone call. I went to school and heard that a classmate took his life. Now, I'm a believer in medical help in the way of therapy and prescription medication, and I'm also very interested in discovering some of the roots of suicide and want to offer solutions and comfort. I think that this show, which is going to be extended, can be not only a comfort to you with the information that I'm going to be giving you, but I also think that it's the type of show that you might want to pass on to somebody that you know could be struggling. It could be that lifesaver that you throw out and to say, hey, I care about you. People who are struggling with depression are people who are manifesting a strong desire to find meaning in their life. Some people do not speak out about it, but many do. They're not to be looked at as simply broken or less than

normal in my estimation. They're honest about the meaning of life and trying to find it. And when they cannot, it ends up in devastation. I would argue that you can find meaning, even at the lowest point of depression and anxiety. You can find meaning in life. And I believe that everyone, as great philosophers have said down through the ages, everyone is looking for happiness. But you know, if your definition of happiness is simply avoiding pain and discomfort, and you're in a precarious situation then because you're going to find at times that life doesn't feel really happy, and you are going to experience pain. The goal of life is not to avoid pain, but to find the meaning of pain and allow God to heal.

and bring deeper meaning to our lives. I like what the writer of Hebrew said. It says that Jesus learned through what he suffered. It's an interesting statement, isn't it? He learned through what he suffered. In other words, he suffered, but he went through it, and he learned something. And the ironic thing is that Christianity gives a meaning to pain and suffering

that the world simply is not really open to, at least on the surface. mission, our mission, is to educate the world as to the fact that there is meaning in our suffering. So what is the point of your life? Why live? Is there any purpose in your life beyond accumulating things or accumulating status or avoiding pain or feeling good? These are very serious questions that we have to answer. I like what Paul said to Timothy and 2 Timothy 1-7. He said, for God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power and love and a sound mind. One translation says, and self-control. If someone were to say to me, you know, Jeff, you're a Bible teacher, you do TV, you do radio, and you talk to people around the world, what do you know?

What do you know about suffering? What do you know about depression? What do you know about anxiety? If they were to say, Jeff, you don't understand. I would say, you couldn't be more wrong. Let me start by telling you briefly of two episodes in my own life, where I was bordering on despair as an adult. When I was 25 years old, I left Iowa in a radio job, and I moved back to the Twin Cities. I had just been ordained, and I was moving back to the Twin Cities as a 25-year-old senior pastor. I was living in my mother-in-law's basement, driving a school bus for a junior high school. high to make ends meet. And I was always known as a happy, happy go lucky guy. I competed even in

stand-up comedy, which, by the way, is not unusual for people who struggle with depression or anxiety. And even in high school, I was given an award at the graduation party of class clown. I was happy go lucky. And there at 25 years old, I was pastoring this young church. And I remember it well. It was in the fall. And I woke up one morning, and I just felt lousy. And I thought, oh, okay, you know, you have a bad day, whatever. And the next morning, I woke up and I felt lousy. And over the period of a couple of weeks, I woke up, I was waking up, and it wasn't just feeling lousy. I was actually feeling something deep inside of me that was becoming dark. And I didn't know what was happening. And I had relatives in my family

line that struggled with depression, and I started to get a little bit scared, you know, is this something that I am going to face myself? Well, the weeks grew into months, about four to five months altogether, and I can tell you this, I was so in darkness. And at the same time, I had to teach the Bible, and I had to pastor a young church, and I was in incredible darkness. And when I woke up in the morning, the first thing I did was I cried.

And I said to my wife, I said, I don't know if I'm ever going to get my life back. I don't know what's happening. I don't know why I'm feeling. feeling like this, it was an amazing time, not in a positive way, but in a really a negative way. Now, I ended up getting counsel, and through that counsel, I discovered that there actually was a reason why I was feeling depressed, and it wasn't chemical, it wasn't organic, it wasn't hereditary. I was struggling with unforgiveness towards someone. I was suffering from

unforgiveness and I wasn't dealing with the pain of somebody hurting me in the past. I wasn't dealing with it well and it caught up to me. And everything began to mount up and pile up on me and I just was overwhelmed. And yet at the same time, I had duties and responsibilities that I had to continue to do and fight through it. I didn't want morning to come and I didn't want evening to come. It was awful. and then 10 years later when I was 35 still a pastor I started to feel that it was coming on again and it scared the daylights out of me I ended up dealing with it very quickly and praise God in both situations I gained a victory through Christ that brought me back to a full full joy and so I'm sharing that to say to you, I know what I'm talking about. And this isn't just theology.

This is real life. And I want to help you if I can. As a result of my own struggle when I was young, I went on and I did some more work in college and in college. And I wrote as my thesis, a thesis on Vincent Van Gogh, called The Spiritual Dimension. of Vincent Van Gogh. And it's kind of interesting because I chose Vincent Van Gogh was known as a guy who struggled with depression and mental illness and anxiety. And everybody, when they think about Vincent, starry, starry night, they think about, oh, he cut off his ear. Oh, he killed himself. But you know what's interesting about that? I wrote about Vincent. And Vincent Van Gogh wrote 820 letters. 6151 of those letters were to his brother Theo, where he wrote about wanting to be a

minister. He wrote about wanting to be a blessing to other people. He wanted to translate the Bible into a couple of languages. He was very serious about his faith. He even joined the seminary. But he was discouraged by his father's response to him giving up everything for the poor in the coal mines, in the boronage. And as a result, he left his faith. He left his faith, turned to painting at the suggestion of his brother Theo, and he pursued beauty, community, love. He pursued all of these things that we do. But you know what? It didn't work out. It didn't work out for him. Did he struggle emotionally? You bet he did. But I found out something very interesting just a few years ago. There was a book written, a book called Van Gogh, the Life by Stephen

Naifa and Gregory White Smith. They also wrote a book about Jackson Pollock, who also struggled. But in the book, they discovered two things that were very interesting. Now, our vision of Vincent Van Gogh typically comes from that movie by Irving Stone Lust for Life starring Kirk Douglas, where he cuts his ear off and he commits suicide. The truth of the matter is Vincent did struggle, but he didn't cut his ear off and he didn't commit. suicide. This book, this is the only definitive autobiography of Vincent Van Gogh came up with two things. One, the ear with part of the ear was cut off because on one night, Paul Gogan and him were drunk as skunks, and Gagin always carried this stupid sword around, and they got out of

hand and he cut part of Vincent's ear off. The second was that these authors discovered a signed affidavit in court from two young men who admitted Vincent didn't shoot himself, that They were teasing Vincent about a relationship with a girl. They were fooling around with an old rusty gun, and it went off, and it shot Vincent in the abdomen. He died a couple days later, but Vincent's last words were, actually, to these young men, I forgive you, and I'm not going to turn you in. I don't want you guys going to jail. That's how Vincent's life actually ended.

but we so gloriously paint his life as this struggling, emotionally struggling artist who took his life, which should be the path that many creative people take, at least some believe. But I share that story with you just to share that the major story about the troubled artist did not end up the way Hollywood said it ended up. It actually ended up with a virtuous man troubled, yes, but it did not. he really, really sacrificed. And Vincent Van Gogh has meant something to me all of these years. And I don't think I've ever told that story publicly,

and I've never even revealed the article that I wrote about Vincent, but I would like to someday. I want to shift gears now. I want to talk a little bit about church teaching about suicide. The catechism mentions in paragraph 2280 through 2283, a number of things about suicide. I want to read that to you, and then I want to make some comments.

What can we learn from it? In paragraph 2280, the church tells us, everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor

and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards. not owners of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of. Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God. If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal.

Voluntary cooperation in suicide is contrary to the moral law. Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture, diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The church prays for persons who have taken their own lives. Now, that's what the catechism mentions forthrightly about suicide. But what can we learn from the church's teaching. Number one, if someone in your family committed suicide, you cannot go the rest of your life blaming yourself. The catechism says everyone is responsible for his life

before God. I'm not saying that you're not going to feel bad. I'm not saying that you're not going to ask questions of what you might have been able to do, but we do have to find a peace in Christ when it comes to living perpetually with self-blame. And I want you to know that because I know of a lot of people who live the rest of their lives, if a family member committed suicide, blaming themselves constantly, seek peace in Christ. Number two, what can we learn? We learned that we are stewards of life, not owners. I don't own my life. It's not mine, you know, to just do anything I want to. It's a gift. God has given me the gift of life. And some people do struggle and some people seem to live a charmed life, but it's not my life. It's God giving me life. And my responsibility,

my relationship with my life is I'm a steward. I'm one who takes care of it. I have to maintain my life. I have to nurture my life because I'm a steward, just like taking care of somebody's car, or taking care of somebody's home or whatever it might be, or they're their children. It's not yours. You've got to take care of it. My life is not my own. I'm a steward. And if you struggle with thoughts of suicide, do your best to act as a steward and seek help. Don't act as if you own your own life and make an independent decision. Your loved ones, listen, your loved ones would hope that you would conduct yourself as a steward. As a steward, you are perhaps a spouse, a friend, a father, a mother, a

grandpa, a grandma. You're a steward. Number three, what can we learn? Well, we can learn that suicide is offensive to others because it breaks the ties of solidarity with family and others to which we have obligations. That's what the catechism says. And I want to emphasize, we have obligations. It's offensive to people because of our obligations to people. Robin Williams, Kate Spate, and Anthony Bourdain, God rest their soul, had obligations. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm not feeling for them or not being sensitive.

It means I'm being realistic here. They had obligations, and obligations, I'm going to say something here that I think is very, very true, obligations supersede feelings and emotions. My obligation as a father supersedes my feelings and my emotions, and your obligations that God has given you in life supersede feelings and emotions. Jesus' obligation to love the world, he felt that he wanted to do the father's will. He's the only one that could have saved the world.

that superseded feelings and emotions, and I know it's serious, but that statement might save someone who's listening right now. We can't be afraid to say the truth in love, my friend. The default mode in our response in terms of responding is not to say anything. That's typically what is. I'm not going to say anything because I don't want to offend anybody. And we express just kind of compassion. Yes, we do respond with compassion, but we have to offer reasons and hope for those who are struggling. Inside, we're saying, I have my ideas, but I'm not sharing. Number four, what can we learn? Remember that suicide can establish a very unhealthy example to others and can put you in a place where you are voluntarily contributing

to the demise of others. I remember growing up and there was a neighbor way down the road and his grandfather killed himself. And of two years later, his dad committed suicide. and I found out years later, my friend committed suicide. And all three seemed to look to previous generations and how to deal with their troubles. And it established a very unhealthy example. Number five, the catechism teaches us that serious suffering. We're talking about serious hardship. We're talking about serious anguish.

Can diminish responsibility. But it is not an excuse in it. self. Number six, because someone you love has taken their own life does not, and I repeat, does not mean they went to hell. You know, people used to say this very freely. Oh, so-and-so killed themselves. Well, they went straight to hell. You know, the church has really done a great job of communicating the compassion, mercy, and grace of God in this topic. And the catechism is very, very clear. Never despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their life. Why, God can provide the opportunity for repentance. God can provide the opportunity for repentance.

And so if you have a child or a parent or loved one friend who has taken their life and you cannot seem to get beyond this thought of, are they in hell? Ultimately, we don't know really about anybody, do we? Except the saints, but we do know this. when someone's in tremendous anguish, God's grace is there, and we need to put our trust in Jesus. I'm going to take a break right now, and when I come back,

I want to talk to you about possible reasons for depression and solutions to help deal with discouragement. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. If you're looking for a way to learn more about your Catholic faith, I invite you to check out the Ascension Presents YouTube channel. You're going to find tons of free videos featuring Catholic presenters like Matt Frad, Liadero, Jackie Mopi Angel, and Emily Wilson. Go to YouTube.com slash Ascension Presents. That's YouTube.com slash Ascension Presents. And if you like

what you see, please share and subscribe. Welcome back to the show. We are talking about a very serious topic this week. It's a special edition of the show. A topic that you're hearing a lot about and the media, whether it's on the web or the radio or in the news, and that's suicide. A number of well-known people have taken their lives recently, and people are talking about more openly, I should say, about depression and suicide. And when famous people take their lives, there is statistics that show that there is a rise or a spike afterwards. In fact, after Robin Williams took his life, there was a 10% rise over the next few months. Now, there are not a number of number of reasons why people suffer from depression. And I'm not, I'm not going to pretend to be a

psychologist or a psychiatrist on the show here. But I am someone who struggled a couple times with this. And I am someone who has helped many people through it. And I am someone who has seen victory, not only in my life, but in the lives of others. And you know what's interesting? Is that since this has come to the forefront, do you know how many emails I am getting about this topic? And many people have called or spoken to me at a church and have said, Jeff, I've gone through this in my life. I went through a bout of deep depression. You know, there used to be such a stigma about people that, you know, stigma, I'm broken in my emotions. I'm less than. And people were so embarrassed. They didn't want to come out. You know, they would come

out with a broken leg with a cast. In fact, everybody signed it. Everybody would sign the broken leg. but nobody wanted to come out and say emotionally I'm broken and certainly friends didn't flock around saying I'll sign the cast of your broken heart nobody wanted to say I'm hurting in my thinking and people would hide themselves they wouldn't say anything because they thought they would be ostracized or maybe they'd be like a leper put out of the city and we should never ever have attitudes like that I think that is one of the reasons that people stay in the shadow. It is because they are afraid to come out into the light for healing. We need to be very gracious and loving people and not judgmental people. We need to recognize some of the reasons

why people do fall into depression. Let me give you some possible reasons for depression. Some of them are rather obvious. Chemical imbalance. A chemical imbalance in the brain can certainly be the cause of depression or anxiety in a person. A chemical can change people. in many ways. Sometimes this is an organic change in the brain treated with therapy and or prescription medicine, and that's an okay thing. Oftentimes, too, people have experienced something in their life that causes a chemical imbalance in their brain, and they do need help. Either way, get help. Other common reasons for depression are genetics. Do you know that, yes, there are some people that are genetically predisposed, heredity, that it may run

in the family. If so, it's not a reason to end it. It is a reason to, it's to really build resilience in your life. And it's to build yourself up and to prepare yourself with a strong mind in Christ. So genetics can play a role. Number three, physical health problems such as a chronic illness. I have had many people that I've, friends and people that I've run into who had tremendous health problems. They were in an accident. and found themselves in the hospital for three, four months, followed by a year of therapy and at times went into a darkness because they were losing hope and life didn't turn out the way they thought it would be. Number four, stressful life event, trauma, the loss of a loved one,

getting fired at work, a disease that comes on, the loss of a loved one in your own family through suicide. Another reason for depression is grief and loss, and that can come in a number of different ways, but also number six, unhealthy living. And what I'm talking about is not getting the proper sleep, not eating a good balanced diet, not getting exercise or drinking too much alcohol, which is a natural depressant. These things can lead to depression in people's lives. Now, those are all common reasons for depression. But here's a couple of things that I have noticed over the years that are different than those common reasons. And now, this might not be you, okay? I'm not diagnosing you. It's not necessarily your brother

or your sister, but these are things that I have become familiar with in ministry and teaching and in listening to people. One of the reasons for depression in people's lives is unforgiveness. I have noticed a wound in many people's lives, a wound as I experienced, a wound that wasn't taken care of properly. There are a lot of ways that people can avoid taking care of the wounds in their lives. They can run from it. They can blame others. They can, they can self-medicate with alcohol. They can self-medicate with painkillers, such as opioids. Pain killers do exactly what they say they will do. They numb the pain. And we have, have an epidemic in our culture today of people who are not being truthful about their pain level

and they are addicted to opioids. They like the feeling or that feeling of not feeling that pain anymore. And oftentimes when it starts with physical pain, it ends with an emotional pain, but sometimes that is due to unforgiveness. And I can't tell you the number of people that I have had the privilege of being with who experienced a deep, deep unforgiveness towards someone because of something that happened to them when they were kids, or they were in high school, or perhaps it was pain caused by a former spouse. They've been through a horrific divorce, and there is so much pain that has come into their lives, but they haven't really, really dealt well with it. Unforgiveness can eat away at us, and it can bring us to a point where suddenly we are in a

dark, dark place. And this isn't just a few people. This is a lot of people who have struggled with unforgiveness. I have a number of shows and podcasts on this topic, and I encourage you to look those up. You can look through iTunes and Google Play, and you can see the shows that I've done on unforgiveness and releasing people from the pain that they have brought into our lives. Unforgiveness can be a serious problem. And in my case, back when I was 25 years old, that was it. I found out the reason. that I was in darkness, and it was because I was so damn angry. I was so angry with someone in my life that it was eating me alive. It was like drinking poison, hoping someone else would die. And when I

discovered the forgiveness of Jesus and could extend that to someone else, I began to come out of my darkness that lasted four or five months in my life. Now again, please, please listen to me when I say this. I am not saying that all people who struggle with darkness and anxiety and depression and want to take their own lives are struggling with unforgiveness. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying that can be true for some people. It's a good thing to think about. Number two is sin. Sin can lead to depression and sin can lead to anxiety in a person's life because sin is where we conduct ourselves in a way that is, how can I say it?

it's contrary to the ways of God, whether it is something we do or say a lie or something. It is something that we do with our money, perhaps. But whatever it might be, we are not created to live like that. We're not created to lie. We're not created to sin. Our mind and our emotions, our body, not created to do those things. It is not created to walk in sin. And that is why we experience this revulsion of emotions in our body when we sin.

And it can even be detected. for example the lie detector test what do they do they do they strap you up on a heart monitor and blood pressure the moisture on your skin your eyes everything and they can ask you the most simple question and you can look at that person who is asking you the question with the calmest of demeanor you can tell them something and they will say to you you're lying because your body is not meant to live in a lie now if you know that our mind and our emotion and our body is not created to live with lies what happens when we continually live in sin? What happens? We fall apart. We can fall apart. So if you are struggling in your life with depression, again, do not rule out getting help,

going to the doctor, medication therapy, it is incredibly important, but do ask yourself the question, am I living the way of the Lord intended me to live? And number nine, the comparison trap. this is another one. We talked about this a little bit on the show last week on a show called Mirror Mirror on the web. We talked about comparison on the web and that is looking at other people's lives and coming to the conclusion, I am a big fat loser. I don't have anything going and I don't see a good outcome in my life. And when we do that, when we start going down that road, it gets darker and darker. And so we as Christians are not called to the compare ourselves with others game, but we compare ourselves with who? Who we compare ourselves with ourselves yesterday in terms

of spiritual growth. And above all, we compare ourselves to Jesus and the saints and the blessed mother. And we have a goal to become like them. The emphasis is put on the internal comparison rather than the external. And that is something that we need to keep in mind. So we have to be mindful of the possible reasons for depression, and we have to be honest about the way we are living. We have to be honest about sin. We have to be honest about the comparison game, and we have to be honest about owning the hurt that has happened in our lives and forgiving and walking the way Jesus did. Those are really important things, but what are ways we can prevent or deal with discouragement, depression, and suicide? You know, I am so glad that we have this time.

together today because I just sense in my heart right now that someone is going to be saved because of what we're talking about. So what are some ways that we can prevent discouragement, depression, and hopefully suicide? Well, first and foremost, you've heard this number all throughout the news lately. If you are struggling and you are depressed or contemplating suicide or you know of someone who is get help. Get help and get help now. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline phone number is 1-800-273-8255. I'll put it in the show notes.

1-800-273-82-55. You can write it down. I'll put it in the show notes. Get help now. As we begin to talk about preventative measures, let me start by saying medication is not a bad thing. counseling is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. But as we look at dealing with despair and hopefully preventing depression, let's also look beyond medical help. Let's look at thinking and acting

differently. Depression doesn't generally just wear out and suddenly, whoa, I'm okay now. Something usually needs to be addressed in our lives. It's like a flare that goes up. Something's wrong. A number of years ago, I think it was three or four years ago, I had a really unusual usual experience. I went to get my yearly checkup at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, and my general physician set my schedule. He's a good friend of mine. And so at Mayo, you go through, you know, one department after another, a whole day. It's really quite the operation. So I went from specialist to specialist, and I ended my day in the Department of Alternative Medicine. This is new, and it's growing. And Mayo Clinic is really, really growing right now in this area. And the head

of the department was Dr. Amit Sud, S-O-O-D. Now, he is the chair of the alternative medicine at Mayo Clinic, and I had about an hour conversation with him that was incredible, amazing. And I think my friend, my doctor friend is one that set these things up because he knew about my teaching and he knew what Dr. Amit Sud was teaching at Mayo Clinic. Now, I had this great conversation. Now, Dr. Sude wrote a book called Train Your Brain, Engage Your Heart, Transform Your Life. I'll put that in the show notes. It is a book that I highly recommend. He also wrote a book called The Guide to Stress Free Living. And in there, he quotes Matthew Killingsworth and Daniel Gilbert. They wrote a paper, I believe it was called A Wandering Mind is an Unhappy Mind. And in that paper, they talk about a study of 2250 adults. that indicated something interesting. It indicated that people were less happy when their minds wandered than when experiencing present moment awareness. A brain that's not engaged in meaningful

activity is usually planning, problem solving, ruminating over the past, or worrying about the future. They said a ruminating brain is predisposed to depression. In turn, it's harder for the depressed brain to suppress its default mode. Ruminations are, for the sake of the argument here, repetitive thoughts about the past that may result in sadness, regret, guilt, or anxiety. Worries are similar thoughts about the future. Now, as I spoke with Dr. Sude, I was struck by how much of my teachings, particularly the series called Walking Toward Eternity about developing virtue was identical to the Mayo Clinic program of alternative medicine. This blew me away. Dr. Sude emphasized that both physical and emotional health have more to do with the decisions

of the heart and our perspective on life. He speaks about, and this is really powerful, he speaks about this, what he calls, cultivating emotional resilience. This is important in fighting depression, cultivating emotional resilience by what? Exercising? Yes. But listen to all these things that he mentioned. He's sitting there telling me this and I'm thinking myself, man, he sounds like a minister. And he's not. He said, in order to build emotional resilience, you need to focus on several things. One, gratitude. Gratitude is where we are very thankful for the things in our life. And here is this guy who is heading up a department of Mayo Clinic telling me, as we are sitting there in his office, Jeff, if you want to be healthy physically with your heart and healthy emotionally, you've got to live a life of gratitude. And he suggests being grateful in the morning in the afternoon, in the evening. Number two, if you want to develop emotional resiliency, you've got to develop compassion.

If you want to be healthy, and if you want to cultivate emotional resilience, you have to walk in compassion. you are compassionate towards other people. Number three, acceptance. This is very powerful acceptance. You know there are some things that have happened in our lives that we cannot do anything about. We have to accept that, and we have to move on. And as Christians, we walk in the love of God. We walk in the transforming power of God, but we are accepting of not only our life, but the life of others.

I did a whole podcast on this earlier about my Subaru, and my Subaru got some scratches and dings on it, and I felt like, oh, it'll never be perfect again. And I didn't like it, but that we have to accept. Meaning, he said, we got to develop meaning, that in order to cultivate this emotional resilience, we have to have meaning in our life. We have to have meaning in our life that goes beyond the physical things and simply emotional feelings. We've got to have some meaning in our life. and I believe that that will become for us the grounds to weather emotional storms.

And when we serve Jesus Christ and when we give our lives completely over to him, there is meaning in our life. Here's what he said too. If you want to develop emotional resilience, you need to walk in forgiveness. Imagine that. Head of the apartment, Mayo Clinic, looking at me and saying, you got to walk in forgiveness.

get that. I think that's wild. He is just giving this to me as someone who is just leaving my yearly checkup. I'm not going in there saying, hey, I have real problems, doctor, with unforgiveness in my life. He's saying, Jeff, as a physician, I'm telling you that if you want to be healthy emotionally and physically, you've got to be a man of forgiveness. Number six, relationships. You have to have relationships, he said. You have to have relationships. That is so powerful, isn't it? Do you know that many of the studies that have come out from Harvard and from around the world have reduced a healthy person's life to a number of common denominators, and one consistently is they must have good relationships? One of the best things that you can do for yourself emotionally is invest in friendships. You're not

alone, to give of yourself to others and to receive just a few really deep friends. You don't have to be best friends with the whole world, and I know you can't. I can't, but we can have meaningful relationships. One important thing to remember here is the power that relationships can have not only in nurturing us and elevating our spirit, but also in helping us to see things that at times we just cannot see. A suicide prevention article I read said, suicide is a desperate attempt to escape suffering that has become unbearable,

blinded by feelings of self-loathing, hopelessness, and isolation. A suicidal person can't see any way of finding relief except through death. But despite their desire for the pain to stop, most suicidal people are deeply affected about ending, or conflicted rather, about ending their own lives. They wish there was an alternative to suicide, but they just can't see one. Many times those closest to us can be our eyes when we are

blinded by despair. And many times we too can see the dangers that our friends cannot see due to their state of mind. This is why it's important to know the warning signs of suicide and to always take them seriously. I'll add a link in the show notes for the article, Suicide Prevention, how to help someone who is suicidal and save a life. So that work by Dr. Sude was very eye-opening to me. In light of what we're talking about nationally right now, very, very eye-opening. Someone may say that they don't want to listen to someone who teaches the Bible. Fine. Do you want to listen to someone who is the head of a department at Mayo Clinic? We're saying the same thing. another thing I would add to this is think on the right things. You know, Paul said in Philippians

4 verses 8 through 9, finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever's pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious. If there is any excellence, if there's anything worthy of praise, think about these things. What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me do. And the God of peace will be with you. I love that. And so one of the things I do when people come to me and I say, I am really, they say I'm really struggling with my thought life. I am bordering on depression here is I encourage them to start thinking on the right things. You've got to take control of your thoughts. You can't just roll over and give up. You can't do it alone either. That's where the friendships

come in, the relationships. Tell your close friends. Pray for me. If it persists, get help. So think on the right things. And here's another powerful point. And this one was one of the major helps when I was 25 years old and struggled through those four or five months of depression. Sing praise to God. Get involved in Thanksgiving and sing praise. You might remember that great portion of scripture in 1 Samuel 16 where Saul was depressed. Remember that? Very depressed in what happened. David played the harp. And as he played the harp, Saul came. out of it. He came out of that darkness. I've often said to people who are struggling with depression, get three or four, five CDs of praise music, play them all the time, surround yourself with

uplifting praise music, enjoin yourself to the music, and begin to worship God. You will be surprised at how you change. You'll be surprised. Become a person of gratitude and thankfulness. That's what the mass is all about. Going to mass will change your life. life because you're in the midst of thanksgiving, it alters you. You are in the presence of the king of kings and the Lord of Lords. And Paul said in 1st Thessalonians 518, in everything, give thanks for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. Oh, I got to share this with you. This just came out this week. L.A. Los Angeles Times. Listen to this. You talk about going to mass. You talk about how faith can be a preventative when it comes to mental illness and depression and anxiety. Listen to this. It's an

amazing article that just came out of the LA Times. Then this article is entitled Church Attendance Links with Reduced Suicide Risk, especially for Catholics. Isn't that interesting? I'll say it again. Church attendance links with reduced suicide risk, especially for Catholics. Wow, that's powerful. read a little bit of this article for you. Here it is. Against a grim backdrop of rising suicide rates among American women, new research has revealed a blinding shaft of light. One group of women practicing Catholics appears to have bucked the national trend toward despair and self-harm. That's interesting, isn't it? The article goes on to say, compared with women who never participated in religious services, women who attended any religious service once a week or more,

were five times less likely to commit suicide between 1996 and 2010, says a study published Wednesday by the Journal of the American Medical Association, Psychiatry. Religious convictions and practices can help people foster a sense of hope, even in the midst of major crisis or adversities. Religious faith can help people find a sense of meaning and purpose, even in suffering. the women's church attendance was not the only factor, which church they attended mattered as well. Protestant women who worshipped weekly at church were far less likely to take their own lives than were women who seldom were never attended services.

But these same Protestant women were still seven times more likely to die by their own hand than were the devout Catholic sisters. Among especially devout Catholic women, get this, Those in the pews, more than once a week, suicides were a vanishing phenomenon. Among the 6,99 Catholic women who said they attended Mass more than once a week, there was not a single suicide. Huh, it's interesting. The suicide prevention effect of religion was clearly not a simple matter of group identity. Self-identified Catholics who never attended Mass committed suicide nearly as often as did women of any

religion who are not active worshippers. That is powerful. That's so powerful to me. In fact, it reminds me, I just spoke with a friend Kelly Walquist, who's the founder of wine, women in the new evangelization. She just got back from New Orleans and they had an amazing conference out there. And she was talking to me about how these women are coming together, worshiping and relating to one another. Friendships are established and how many of them are saying, this is the greatest thing that has happened in my life in terms of fellowship. And encouragement when women come together and they support one another nurture and lift up one another and so on the tail end of this article out of la i would say women become a part of wine women in the

new evangelization find fellowship with others you can you can find that ministry by the way at catholic vineyard dot com i'll put that in the show notes catholic vineyard dot com that's the women's ministry if you want to look that up so this is a very power this is powerful stuff and i'm going to take another break here and when I come back, I want to talk briefly about our response. If we know of somebody, a family member, whoever, you know, somebody who's lost a friend, what is our response? How can we help? This is a special edition of the Jeff Kaven show. We're talking about suicide, prevention, and how we can respond. The Bible is such an important part of our Catholic faith, but it's not always easy to understand. There are 73 separate books and so many names, places,

and events that sometimes we just stop trying to figure out how it all fits together. The good news is, the Great Adventure Bible Studies make it easy for you to understand the Bible. By focusing on the story that ties all of Scripture together, the Great Adventure Bible studies give you the big picture of the Bible. And once you see the big picture of salvation history, the Mass will make more sense, the Catholic faith will make more sense, and you will see how God has a loving plan for your life. The Great Adventure Bible Studies have helped hundreds of thousands of people to understand the Bible and grow closer to Christ.

There's no other Catholic Bible study series like it, and you can get started on the great adventure today by creating your free account at ascensionpress.com. And I do thank you for coming back, and I do thank you for spending this much time with me this week. I think that the topic of suicide preventing it, how we respond, is very important. and it takes a little bit more time, but I'm also very mindful of the fact that you might have someone in mind that you'd love dearly and that you would like them to know some of these principles and some of these keys to deal with depression

and the possibility of taking their own life. Before I look at just a couple of points here, as we're getting ready to wind down the show, I want to give you a few points, really, on how do we deal with people who, you know, family members or friends who have, you know, someone they have lost. How do we respond to that? I do want to mention this. Where you place your hope in life is really important. I was thinking about this during the break. Where you place your hope is very important. The psalmist said in

425, why are you cast down, oh my soul, and why are you disquieted within me? Hope in God. for I shall yet praise him for the help of his countenance for you are the God of my strength you know when we hope in God we're going from our limited perspective and our limited power and our limited wisdom to God's unlimited power and insight and wisdom and his love and so we don't place our hope in men and women completely. We do go to doctors and we do trust in the medical field to help us when we are down. We do. But there's a special place of trust and hope that we only give to God because he knows us so well. Second thing is to learn to live a life outside of yourself. What do I mean by that? The answer to depression, in some cases,

is at least part of the answer is to get outside of yourself, to live beyond yourself, to pick up a meaning that's bigger than your four walls. I met a woman one time when I was a young pastor, and she came in and she was very depressed, and I was talking to her, and I couldn't talk anymore that day, and I said, I've got to go on a hospital call. I've got some people. I've got to visit. I really got to go. And I said, would you want to come with me? And so I brought her to the hospital, and I talked to her along the way. And when I got there, I said, there's one lady and so-and-so room that is really down and out. She's an elderly lady. Would you mind just going down and talking with her and being a friend for a few minutes and I'll meet you down

there? And she did. And I met up with her afterwards. You know what she said to me, the woman that was with me? She said, after I talked to that lady that you wanted me to talk to, she said, I haven't felt that good in weeks. I haven't felt that good in weeks. And then we got back to her and I said, well, why don't you do this more often? Now, the crazy response was, She said, oh, I don't know if I could do that. And I thought, you kidding me? If you feel better by getting outside of yourself, go do it. Go do it.

Now, what's our response to someone who's lost a loved one to suicide? Number one, compassion. Compassion. We need to be compassionate people. We do not need to be people who are disinterested in the pains that are going on out there. We need to be compassionate. We suffer with them. We hold them.

We pray with them. We don't let them alone. that's an important thing to show compassion. Number two, we don't judge. I would avoid any talk about somebody not knowing the Lord and where they're at. We don't judge. This is not a time to judge. This is a time to show compassion.

We don't judge. We affirm the people who are hurting. And we let them know that we love them. and we let them know that God loves them. The third thing that I would say, and how do we respond to someone who's lost a loved one to suicide, is we pray for them. Prayer is very powerful and very necessary,

and it is something that I think sometimes we say to people, hey, I'll be praying for you. And then we turn around, walk away, and we never do it. Let's be people of our word. Let's really pray for them. When you say, I'll pray for you, you might say, can I pray for you right now? Can I give you a hug?

Can I pray for you? I mean, you have to know the person and you have to understand their background, what they're going through, but you can be that comfort to them, and you can pray for them right then. And then later on in the day and you're in the car, offer up a rosary or pray for them at a holy hour, lift them up, and just remember them in prayer. number four encourage those who have lost someone to get help oftentimes the person that is left behind is the person that struggles so much and people don't take the time to to really be honest

and straightforward with them of i want to make sure you're okay i want to make sure you're okay give them a call take them out for coffee do not be afraid to what i call lean into the wound I did a whole podcast on that, whole show on that earlier, about leaning into the suffering. Don't be embarrassed. Don't be shy. Don't have that attitude. I don't know what to say. You be honest.

Let it come from your heart. I love you. And I want to make sure you're okay. Do you need any help? Can I get someone to talk with you? Can you want to visit with our pastor? Number five, don't celebrate suicide. It's tragic.

focus on learning from the situation and helping others. What do I mean by don't celebrate suicide? It's a tragedy. We don't make it into some kind of memorial and exit memorial. That's not what we're about. For all the reasons that I mentioned earlier about what the church teaches, about life and the obligations and the relationships, and we're stewards of our own life, we don't celebrate it. So let me conclude. I want to say this. The gospel tells us that it is good that you exist. My friend, you're listening right now. Maybe you are discouraged. It is good that you exist. It is good that you're here on earth. God loves you. I don't say that lightly. I say that with all of the force behind it. The God who created this universe loves you. even though you're broken and you're crying right now, God loves you.

And God has an amazing plan for your life. He really does. Reach out, relationships, professional help, prayer, check your heart. As I said earlier in the show, but know this, God loves you and he has a plan for your life. Do not put a period. where God put a comma okay don't end it don't end it don't put a period where God put a comma and I'll end with this this is a so powerful Paul said in Philippians four six and seven have no anxiety about anything you might say to yourself yeah Paul but he does give an alternative

here have no anxiety about anything but in everything by prayer and supplication with Thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your hearts in your minds in Christ Jesus. My friend, I think this is an important podcast. This is an important show. And I pray that it saves lives and helps to build you up. Let me pray for you. in the name of the Father, in the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Lord, I lift up my friend right now and ask you, Lord, to comfort them. And I ask you, Lord, to lift them up and to give them life and joy and peace that passes all understanding. Help us, Lord, to not do this alone, but to be with you

and to reach out to others. I commit my friend listening to you right now, Lord. And for those who have lost loved ones, oh God, comfort them, nurture them, comfort them, and hold them as close as John was to you, St. John, who had his head upon your chest and could hear your heart. I pray that my friends will be comforted those who have lost loved ones, and they will be free from eternal guilt in their own heart, and that they will find that healing. you. We ask for the intercession from our dear mother who understands the whole issue so well. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary. Mother of God, pray for us, sinners. Now and at the hour of our

death, amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be encouraged, my friend. and once again, I also encourage you to share this with others and use it as a lifesaver if you want or something you can go back to just to be encouraged. I love you. I'm going to pray for you. Have a great week.